I have 2 working titans, i was wondering if it would be possible to de-solder the memory chip off one and solder it into the other one where it has the empty space for ram, would this work? does anyone have a link to the high res photos of the board inside?
nevermind, upon taking apart one of mine and removing the shields i see no blank space for extra ram, i wonder what i was thinking of that i saw had an extra spot, it looks like theres no room under here
I will NEVER understand why a $600.00 retail phone that runs windows would not come with more RAM - it is the ONLY complaint I have with this device!! MAKES NO SENSE!!! How much MORE could it have costed to put a 128MB unit in there???? $10????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ARARARGHHHH!!!!!!!!!!
I think the issue is really just that the phone was late to market. The hardware was well within the standards for WM5 (for which it was apparently designed). By the time the phone actually made it to market, 128MB of memory was now the standard with the introduction of WM6. There are reasons other than cost to not just throw a ton of RAM into a device.
kashabrown said:
I will NEVER understand why a $600.00 retail phone that runs windows would not come with more RAM - it is the ONLY complaint I have with this device!! MAKES NO SENSE!!! How much MORE could it have costed to put a 128MB unit in there???? $10????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ARARARGHHHH!!!!!!!!!!
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Click to collapse
Ok, I am so sick of hearing this argument from consumers, who the majority of the time don't have a clue how marketing and the economy works. think about it...if you ran a multi-billion dollar company making these devices, would you throw all your cards on the table in one fell swoop? of course not!
these companies are not stupid...sure they could release a device tomorrow that had 2gigs of ram, an awesome video card, 800x600 res screen, 64gb built in storage, and still be the size of the xv8600 if not smaller...but that would kille the company and also violate market laws no doubt (like when microsoft released internet explorer for free back when netscape navigator cost $30 a month to use...
come on, these companies are in it for the long haul...if they released a deivce with those stats i just listed (and they could easily...think how small a 8gb transflash card is...you could have 128GB (notmb) of ram easily running on those things, but anyway, if they released that, guess what you, the consumer would want 6 months from now? A device that was twice as good, and had twice as much ram, and speed and space, etc...
Why would these compnies shoot themselves in the foot? They are making money hand over fist selling these devices that use technology available 5-10 years ago...heck, if i were a CEO of LG or HTC or Samsung or whoever, I would be loving this.
It just makes sense, and the average consumer makes a post like that with no thought as to what would happen to the economy or company. Just because it can be done and easily done and you want it, doesnt mean the company is going to say "sure, let's skip 5 years of profits, and just give them what we could sell in 2012, now in 2008" - heck no they arent going to do that obviously.
THE BOTTOM LINE: We, the consumers, have a short memory, are very impatient, and want the next best thing no matter how good the current thing we have is. If they put 256mb in the Titan, your last post would have been...."WHY CANT THEY PUT IN 512MB?!?!?!!?" you see? So, these coampnies are making tons of money by dragging out the release of new technology process...I mean think about it...we have dual core 2.4ghz processors in the year 2001. It is SEVEN years later, and we are still selling dual core 2.4ghz computers for $1,500 and up. Sure, you can get a better deal by building your own but the average consumer doesnt know how to do that, so that lack of technical expertise, combined with slow technology drift, keeps these companies in the high profit margins. I mean by now, if we were all 100% tech-savvy we would be demanding (as a whole) 12-core computers, with 20ghz ciphs each core...it's just not gonna happen when these big conglomerates control the flow of technology.
One company kind of broke free of this, and did work on their own. Look up the RED 4K Camera. current professional cameras for filming are $2,000 and up and film 720x480pixels, well HD cameras ar emore expensive, $4000 and up for pro quality and they are 1920x1080 pixels, well the RED 4K Camera came out over 2 years ago and it can film in 3 to 4 times HD res @ 4000pixels. Of course since they are th eonly ones doing it they can charge $20,000 per camera when in reality the parts to make it cost about $500...but do you know how to make a video camera? do you know how to build a PDA? Do you know how to manufacture 64GB ram chips to put in your PDA? Are you a programmer and cna you make the firmware for your custom device? and the list goes on and on....this is why we PAY $600 for a device that costs them $50 to make. Get it?
::: Connor
crobs808 said:
Ok, I am so sick of hearing this argument from consumers, who the majority of the time don't have a clue how marketing and the economy works. think about it...if you ran a multi-billion dollar company making these devices, would you throw all your cards on the table in one fell swoop? of course not!
these companies are not stupid...sure they could release a device tomorrow that had 2gigs of ram, an awesome video card, 800x600 res screen, 64gb built in storage, and still be the size of the xv8600 if not smaller...but that would kille the company and also violate market laws no doubt (like when microsoft released internet explorer for free back when netscape navigator cost $30 a month to use...
come on, these companies are in it for the long haul...if they released a deivce with those stats i just listed (and they could easily...think how small a 8gb transflash card is...you could have 128GB (notmb) of ram easily running on those things, but anyway, if they released that, guess what you, the consumer would want 6 months from now? A device that was twice as good, and had twice as much ram, and speed and space, etc...
Why would these compnies shoot themselves in the foot? They are making money hand over fist selling these devices that use technology available 5-10 years ago...heck, if i were a CEO of LG or HTC or Samsung or whoever, I would be loving this.
It just makes sense, and the average consumer makes a post like that with no thought as to what would happen to the economy or company. Just because it can be done and easily done and you want it, doesnt mean the company is going to say "sure, let's skip 5 years of profits, and just give them what we could sell in 2012, now in 2008" - heck no they arent going to do that obviously.
THE BOTTOM LINE: We, the consumers, have a short memory, are very impatient, and want the next best thing no matter how good the current thing we have is. If they put 256mb in the Titan, your last post would have been...."WHY CANT THEY PUT IN 512MB?!?!?!!?" you see? So, these coampnies are making tons of money by dragging out the release of new technology process...I mean think about it...we have dual core 2.4ghz processors in the year 2001. It is SEVEN years later, and we are still selling dual core 2.4ghz computers for $1,500 and up. Sure, you can get a better deal by building your own but the average consumer doesnt know how to do that, so that lack of technical expertise, combined with slow technology drift, keeps these companies in the high profit margins. I mean by now, if we were all 100% tech-savvy we would be demanding (as a whole) 12-core computers, with 20ghz ciphs each core...it's just not gonna happen when these big conglomerates control the flow of technology.
One company kind of broke free of this, and did work on their own. Look up the RED 4K Camera. current professional cameras for filming are $2,000 and up and film 720x480pixels, well HD cameras ar emore expensive, $4000 and up for pro quality and they are 1920x1080 pixels, well the RED 4K Camera came out over 2 years ago and it can film in 3 to 4 times HD res @ 4000pixels. Of course since they are th eonly ones doing it they can charge $20,000 per camera when in reality the parts to make it cost about $500...but do you know how to make a video camera? do you know how to build a PDA? Do you know how to manufacture 64GB ram chips to put in your PDA? Are you a programmer and cna you make the firmware for your custom device? and the list goes on and on....this is why we PAY $600 for a device that costs them $50 to make. Get it?
::: Connor
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I understand your arguments and mostly they are correct. But $30 bucks a month for Netscape Navigator? I can't remember that. I was surfing the net back in '94 on Netscape and I don't remember paying anything for it (apart from dialup charges - and that was even before IE existed) ****, does that show how old I am???
crobs808 said:
Ok, I am so sick of hearing this argument from consumers, who the majority of the time don't have a clue how marketing and the economy works. think about it...if you ran a multi-billion dollar company making these devices, would you throw all your cards on the table in one fell swoop? of course not!
::: Connor
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Click to collapse
They did it with the Touch.....they must be able to do it with the mogul even if they revamp it a bit. we put a man on the moon recently so why not more ram in a phone.
maccaberry said:
I understand your arguments and mostly they are correct. But $30 bucks a month for Netscape Navigator? I can't remember that. I was surfing the net back in '94 on Netscape and I don't remember paying anything for it (apart from dialup charges - and that was even before IE existed) ****, does that show how old I am???
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Click to collapse
well you cant be that old if you dont remember netscape sueing microsoft for anti-trust lawsuits for releasing free software into a market that undercut their $10-$30 netscape versions depending on which one you bought...(remember, netscape gold and all that lol, back in the early 90s (this is pre 1994) - that's just when yahoo finally came around. i mean i am only 26 and i remember having to use Mosaic web browser...the browser that eventually became Netscape Navigator...LINK #1 - Mosaic and this LINK #2 - Netscape - it talks all about the antitrust lawsuits, etc..
anyway, back on topic...double the ram didnt happen because of one word..."MONEY!" - you can make WAY more money as a company seeing how far and long you can push the customer.
-connor
Tregrad said:
They did it with the Touch.....they must be able to do it with the mogul even if they revamp it a bit. we put a man on the moon recently so why not more ram in a phone.
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you didnt understand his post, its not about cost or technology, its about marketing
the phone was designed fro WM5, so 64mb ram was more than enough, why should they put 128mb in the phone when in a year they can release a new phone with 128mb and everyone will buy that?
does it suck? sure, but its life, better get used to it
defaultdotxbe said:
you didnt understand his post, its not about cost or technology, its about marketing
the phone was designed fro WM5, so 64mb ram was more than enough, why should they put 128mb in the phone when in a year they can release a new phone with 128mb and everyone will buy that?
does it suck? sure, but its life, better get used to it
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Click to collapse
This is the same idea why we don't have cars with fuel injectors that can run 70 miles to the gallon using standard gas. As long as demand is high enough on goods that are out there (i.e. old phones, old cars, and everything else) and people are willing to keep buying them with outmoded technology, there is no reason to sell the next great thing UNTIL someone else threatens to sell the same thing. Is there really any competition for HTC in the US markets? No. LG sux and runs an OS that looks like my mother-in-laws Razr. Samsung is ok, but doesn't have the utility and look of the vogue or titan.
serfboreds said:
This is the same idea why we don't have cars with fuel injectors that can run 70 miles to the gallon using standard gas. As long as demand is high enough on goods that are out there (i.e. old phones, old cars, and everything else) and people are willing to keep buying them with outmoded technology, there is no reason to sell the next great thing UNTIL someone else threatens to sell the same thing. Is there really any competition for HTC in the US markets? No. LG sux and runs an OS that looks like my mother-in-laws Razr. Samsung is ok, but doesn't have the utility and look of the vogue or titan.
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Dude this is so true. They already have several engines that can get 50-100 mpg no problems. But why wold they bother when they can sell us hybrids which cost heaps more and don't get nearly as good mileage.
The latest is a 6 stroke engine that uses a standard four stroke motor and add two extra strokes per cycle using water! as the 'fuel'. The motor doesn't 'make' more power for nothing. This is not some fake 'perpetual motion machine' . The extra efficiency is achieved purely by getting more heat out of the same amount of fuel instead of throwing the heat out the tail pipe.
See this link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six_stroke_engine
Its a bit off topic but its a true example of the same thing. they will only do it when the market forces them to do it. $10 a gallon gasoline might be the push. (Look at Europe - they pay about they and their cars average about 40-45 mpg).
maccaberry said:
(Look at Europe - they pay about they and their cars average about 40-45 mpg).
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True, but their cars only hold two and you drive around with their knees in their chests, so you better go on a diet, destroy your way of life and get rid of that SUV. I for one am going to be pulled out of my F-350 dead before i give it up.
thats why i make my own diesel fuel NOW if I could just figure out how to make my own phone LOL.
What yall are saying is true tho. we all know that the technology WE see, is the bottom of the barrel of their ideas. no one here would shoot their whole wad at once to appease the clammering consumer. a smart business man would make as much as they can by letting a bit out at a time while developing more and more "stuff" we desire and are willing to give up our hard earned money for.
Its called "capitalism" I know that a dirty word for the "dirt worshiping squirrel hugger" out there but, thats the way it is so get in the boat or tread water for as long as you can.
i dont get ppl with SUVs....i mean i live in Texas and i dont have an SUV or a truck...just a 4door sedan for me and my family. that's all i need, even with some dirt/rock roads when i go out into the country...a truck would actually be more bouncy and annoying to ride in. ive never liked SUVs for any purpose...but soccer moms for some reason think they need the Xterra or their husbands need Hummers to drive one or two kids to and from soccer practice...i dont get it. SUVs are pointless unless you work in construction.
-connor
Tregrad said:
They did it with the Touch.....they must be able to do it with the mogul even if they revamp it a bit. we put a man on the moon recently so why not more ram in a phone.
Click to expand...
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Maybe that was with the help of those $4000 HD digital video cameras
I am with you, I will be buried in my F350 Diesel.
Tregrad said:
True, but their cars only hold two and you drive around with their knees in their chests, so you better go on a diet, destroy your way of life and get rid of that SUV. I for one am going to be pulled out of my F-350 dead before i give it up.
thats why i make my own diesel fuel NOW if I could just figure out how to make my own phone LOL.
What yall are saying is true tho. we all know that the technology WE see, is the bottom of the barrel of their ideas. no one here would shoot their whole wad at once to appease the clammering consumer. a smart business man would make as much as they can by letting a bit out at a time while developing more and more "stuff" we desire and are willing to give up our hard earned money for.
Its called "capitalism" I know that a dirty word for the "dirt worshiping squirrel hugger" out there but, thats the way it is so get in the boat or tread water for as long as you can.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So what are the chances of the Ram chip from a touch/tilt being soldered into the mogul assuming there is any similarities
they did something similar with the old palms to double the ram can be found here
http://pages.interlog.com/~tcharron/Palm8M/III8M.html
im fairly new to the pocket pc phones but what are the chances of using the extra rom space as a page file?
maccaberry said:
Dude this is so true. They already have several engines that can get 50-100 mpg no problems. But why wold they bother when they can sell us hybrids which cost heaps more and don't get nearly as good mileage.
The latest is a 6 stroke engine that uses a standard four stroke motor and add two extra strokes per cycle using water! as the 'fuel'. The motor doesn't 'make' more power for nothing. This is not some fake 'perpetual motion machine' . The extra efficiency is achieved purely by getting more heat out of the same amount of fuel instead of throwing the heat out the tail pipe.
See this link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six_stroke_engine
Its a bit off topic but its a true example of the same thing. they will only do it when the market forces them to do it. $10 a gallon gasoline might be the push. (Look at Europe - they pay about they and their cars average about 40-45 mpg).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is better:
"Although you can definitely pre-order an Aptera if you're okay with space-aged design, Volkswagen is hoping to provide another option for those looking for ridiculous MPG and a little bit of normalcy in construction. Okay, so maybe the 1-Liter isn't exactly standard fare -- with its plastic / magnesium shell and all-glass roof -- but at least it packs four whole wheels and an iconic VW badge, right? According to Motor Authority, the automaker will be producing said vehicle and pushing it to market as early as 2010, and while the minuscule engine will only take you to 75MPH, it will still seat two people -- one in front of the other, though -- and get around 235MPG. No word on a price or any of that good stuff, but we're hearing that they'll only be produced in "limited numbers" whenever they're launched." (from engadget)
As for European cars..europeans don't need to travel as much because the size of the countries in europe are rather small in size comparison to the USA..realistically speaking is over 85mph even really necessary at all?
As for Titan..capitalism is one thing..we aren't asking for 1gb ram even though we would like it...but a decent amount to ensure you don't feel lag would make sense...
I love Europe... but the euro is costing more than the $... not a smart time to go there... YAY U.S. economy!!!!
anyway... I thought this was a WM forum... for a moment I felt I was in a Popular Mechanics forum... my 2 cents
gTen said:
As for Titan..capitalism is one thing..we aren't asking for 1gb ram even though we would like it...but a decent amount to ensure you don't feel lag would make sense...
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remember the titan was designed for WM5, and with WM5 128mb might as well be 1gb, lol
remember the titan was designed for WM5, and with WM5 128mb might as well be 1gb, lol
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Click to collapse
The Titan was originally designed for WM5 yes, which is why the decision for 64 MB of ram was made. Then, however, they decided to throw WM6 on it and didn't even bother to give a damn that 64 MB of ram for WM6 is like running Windows XP with 256 MB of ram...it works, but just barely. Instead, as another poster pointed out, they figured that it would work to their advantage as people would enjoy WM6, but be disgruntled (as we all are) with such limited resources. This would lead us to buy yet another phone later on down the line with 128 MB of ram and WM6 (or now WM6.1).
Related
Hi, i know that for some of you buying an X10 right now is kind of pointless because there are a lot of available new phones but at the moment it's the only decent android device (1Ghz CPU) my carrier (Movistar Uruguay (movistar.com.uy)) is offering and is actually the best phone any carrier here is bringing. Buying an Unlocked one is out of question because of the insanely high prices (Galaxy S U$S ~1500) and no one i know is going to the US any time soon. So i can get the X10 in Movistar here at the same price of the X10 unlocked in the US (still pretty expensive).
Enough of background, i had the chance to try the Desire (U$S 1200! (tic.com.uy/HTC/)) and i found it to be snappier and more responsive than the X10. I mean, the Desire experience was what i expected but the X10 let me somewhat disappointed. Specially when sliding through the home screens and list scrolling. I can compare the Desire with the iPhone 3GS but the X10 seems it's below that. Even in Youtube videos.
Has anyone experienced that too? I know it was running Donut but nonetheless it felt like my firend's nokia 5230 or even the Samsung Star (which i think is also s5230). Heck, even the X8 running donut felt snappier. Maybe I'll go give it another try but this is kind of the only thing stopping me now with pinch n zoom around the corner and custom Froyo eventually available.
Sorry if i made it too long but i want to get my bang from my bucks. Hopefully while i make up my mind some other devices are going to be available, but now all the attention is in the iPhone 4 and RIM over here. Not so much on android.
Thanks for reading.
I liked X10 work pretty well but I have to say 384mb of ram may not be enough for play
I really bad thing is flash does not work
go for galaxy S i9000
Thanks for the quick reply but did you read what i said? 1500 US dollars for the galaxy. I mean, I tried it. it's great, gorgeous, but to my pocket it's not U$S 1000 better.
What i want to know is about the lag when panning and scrolling, because is practically the same hardware as the desire but the response in the desire is perfect.
Which games aren't suited for 384mb? is there a lot of difference? I don't plan to do hardcore gaming either. just some angry birds or something like that. I just want to get a good android experience like syncing, browsing, video, music, some drawing,etc.
dsurka said:
Thanks for the quick reply but did you read what i said? 1500 US dollars for the galaxy. I mean, I tried it. it's great, gorgeous, but to my pocket it's not U$S 1000 better.
What i want to know is about the lag when panning and scrolling, because is practically the same hardware as the desire but the response in the desire is perfect.
Which games aren't suited for 384mb? is there a lot of difference? I don't plan to do hardcore gaming either. just some angry birds or something like that. I just want to get a good android experience like syncing, browsing, video, music, some drawing,etc.
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If you wanna a solid long lasting device - buy X10. If you wanna play around with tech and change gadgets as fast as they appear at the market and go fashionable - don't buy X10. Simple.
SE is a kind of Rolls Royce here.
I want a solid lasting device but that kind of things are ceasing to exist, that's why i'm aiming to a high end right now which will be considered mid range in a year or too.
I like SE, my first phone was a K310 and only changed it when i got my G705(now flashed to W715).
But again, what i really want to know is if anyone here was able to use the X10 and compared it to a similar specs phone (Desire, N1, SGS, Milestone) and found the X10 considerably slower/laggier than the others, if it's something which was fixed in 2.1 or not at all.
I repeat: I want to get it, but want to be sure, but don't want to be disappointed.
...If you wanna play around with tech and change gadgets as fast as they appear at the market and go fashionable...
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As i said in the first post, i'm bound to what my carrier offers and right now the only high-end android it's the xperia. The smartphone market here it's very small at the moment, it's growing and the carriers are noticing it. But it's very much about iPhone, RIM and some Nokias (n95, 5230).
Is it possible for any Mod to change the thread name?
[Q] Is X10 laggier than similars? (Planing to buy)
Thanks
Try to read this post ^_^
I don't have and haven't tried other phone you mention but my X10i is very responsive and can accommodate all my need. I play Angry birds, and even Pocket Legend. ^^
If you wait until after christmas, I can buy a new x10 or captivate/i9000m for you and ship it to you for under $600 (unlocked). Even with duties and whatnot, you should still come out paying a lot less!
I say AFTER Christmas because I don't feel like lining up at the post office
The I9000m is the model with a front facing camera (2cams) and FM radio built-in (the captivate doesn't have either of those), but the captivate is the better option for you. It is a bit more sturdy, isn't known to have a large failure rate for internal memory like the i9000m, and there are ROMs coming out the whazzuu for it Also this phone is silky smooth when cycling through backgrounds, meanwhile the x10 is limited to 32fps until somebody does something about it.
The X10 is the better option if you want an even more solid device, MUCH BETTER GPS (much much better), a notification LED, and camera LED and an overall better camera.
People did some tests in which showed the galaxy S camera is better in many types of light but if you fiddle with the manual settings, the X10 camera is considerably better!
epinion said:
Try to read this post ^_^
I don't have and haven't tried other phone you mention but my X10i is very responsive and can accommodate all my need. I play Angry birds, and even Pocket Legend. ^^
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Thank you, can't wait to give it another try tomorrow at the store and with a lot of hope it performs right.
Have you seen any performance improvement since 1.6 or by removing SE apps?
I know i'm being too nitpicky but i can't stand even a half second lag when scrolling and swyping. I watched all the videos in yt and gsmarena and in 1.6 they always touch, stop and then slowly move the fingers like they have to wait for the phone to keep up, and even then the thing they're moving stays behind the finger... in 2.1 gets better but it's still not like desire.
That said i'd probably get it next week if nothing else is offered in the next few days.
Thank you again to all.
dsurka said:
Thank you, can't wait to give it another try tomorrow at the store and with a lot of hope it performs right.
Have you seen any performance improvement since 1.6 or by removing SE apps?
I know i'm being too nitpicky but i can't stand even a half second lag when scrolling and swyping. I watched all the videos in yt and gsmarena and in 1.6 they always touch, stop and then slowly move the fingers like they have to wait for the phone to keep up, and even then the thing they're moving stays behind the finger... in 2.1 gets better but it's still not like desire.
That said i'd probably get it next week if nothing else is offered in the next few days.
Thank you again to all.
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Of course there are performance improvement ( except Blurry in Call Pics T__T ). And improve even more if you applied optimizer like Jit for example. You could find the FAQ from my signature. ^^
dsurka said:
I want a solid lasting device but that kind of things are ceasing to exist,
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This is why I stick to SE. They keep this principle in their flagships. Not in budget models.
that's why i'm aiming to a high end right now which will be considered mid range in a year or too.
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I told you - it is a kind of Rolls Royce. Is 1950's Rolls Royce mid range model now? Ha! It costs more, than high end Toyota or Lexus. And actually runs better.
I like SE, my first phone was a K310 and only changed it when i got my G705(now flashed to W715).
But again, what i really want to know is if anyone here was able to use the X10 and compared it to a similar specs phone (Desire, N1, SGS, Milestone) and found the X10 considerably slower/laggier than the others, if it's something which was fixed in 2.1 or not at all.
I repeat: I want to get it, but want to be sure, but don't want to be disappointed.
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Even Swiss bank doesn't give any guarantees. Forget it. Take what you like more. And don't stick to specs - they says nothing. I used to post it in another thread, but it fits here too:
"I have maybe a little politically incorrect point of view on the cell phone (and other technical stuff) design. It is about the culture. Not about "don't littering", but about engineering. Ericsson (and Sony Ericsson) has pretty long history that gave them experience. HTC, Samsung, etc are relatively young and most of their problems are rooted there. Look - overall satisfaction for X10 without the last technology bells and whistles like OLED or multitouch is higher, than hi-tech-packed rival's devices. Why? Because according to the experience, they realize, that it is impossible to be perfect and it is better to concentrate to ergonomics issues. The device should be easy-to-use, foolproof and hard-to-break. That can be understood through the long experience of analyzing how it works through the life of the device. Typical life of Samsung is around a year. My friend changes around 5 or 6 phones (3 or 4 of them were Samsungs), when I used the same SE k790a. And it works fine for now. Another conclusion is to buy a flagship. Budget devices of any manufacturer always have issues. I know, all those galaxies are claimed to be top-models, flagships, bla-bla-bla. But I bet, some months of using reminds you my note about engineering experience."
As i said in the first post, i'm bound to what my carrier offers and right now the only high-end android it's the xperia. The smartphone market here it's very small at the moment, it's growing and the carriers are noticing it. But it's very much about iPhone, RIM and some Nokias (n95, 5230).
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It is globalization here, dude. You can buy anything you want at ebay, for example. And price won't be $1200 or something like this. If you want something you like, you should pay for that. My carrier is T-Mobile US and over years it has never had any phones I'd like to have, particularly no one SE flagship. So I bought them somewhere else. You are lucky - your carrier has X10, so take it. iPhone, as any Apple's creation, is traditionally overpriced and underdeveloped. RIM is too corporate-conservative, but has pretty good niche there. Nokia is done technologically until they wake up and forget their stoneaged Symbian, but they are budget-market monsters, you don't want them. And you forgot Motorola. From time to time they launch amazingly good devices.
Che Kirila said:
It is globalization here, dude. You can buy anything you want at ebay, for example. And price won't be $1200 or something like this. If you want something you like, you should pay for that.
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I'm talking about the price I can get it unlocked here, in Uruguay, where phones, pcs, cameras and tvs cost 2x the MSRP in the US, not the ebay or amazon price. It's very different the way in wich prices drop, in the US the prices stay at the MSRP for maybe 2 months and then they get great cuts. Here, if today the GalaxyS costs $1200 then one year from now it may keep at 1000. Oh, i love customs taxes!
Good thing is that if i buy it now i can sell it in a year for about the same price i'm getting it today.
*sigh!* Enough of third world depressing stories.
Che Kirila said:
You are lucky - your carrier has X10, so take it. iPhone, as any Apple's creation, is traditionally overpriced and underdeveloped. RIM is too corporate-conservative, but has pretty good niche there. Nokia is done technologically until they wake up and forget their stoneaged Symbian, but they are budget-market monsters, you don't want them. And you forgot Motorola. From time to time they launch amazingly good devices.
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Agree 100%. I'll probably get the X10.
Thanks
dsurka said:
I'm talking about the price I can get it unlocked here, in Uruguay, where phones, pcs, cameras and tvs cost 2x the MSRP in the US, not the ebay or amazon price. It's very different the way in wich prices drop, in the US the prices stay at the MSRP for maybe 2 months and then they get great cuts. Here, if today the GalaxyS costs $1200 then one year from now it may keep at 1000. Oh, i love customs taxes!
Good thing is that if i buy it now i can sell it in a year for about the same price i'm getting it today.
*sigh!* Enough of third world depressing stories.
Agree 100%. I'll probably get the X10.
Thanks
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Click to collapse
Oops, I forgot about miracles of third, fourth and other worlds... It is so easy to accustom to good things and forget other realities... I know what you mean - my friends from Russia always ask me to buy something for them if they plan to go to the US. They are able to avoid taxes, when bring things with them. Post service in Russia is a complete disaster. If death could be delivered by mail, people would never die in Russia - it would be delivered after world's end or just stolen.
And bribes are always lower, than taxes. I bet you know that.
A great cosmic joke:
Went to my local Movistar decided to give the X10 another try.
Me: Hello, I'm interested in renewing my contract and i would like to see the X10 please. (in spanish and less formal of course)
Movistar Employee: no can do sir there's no stock until Jan 1st.
Me: oh cr%#p!
About the Post Service
Actually the post service here it's not bad at all, I receive books and blurays from amazon in about a week. But books, magazines,cds, dvds and blurays have no tax but everything else over $100 has $150 of tax + ~50% of the cost. So for buying something at $101 in the US I have to pay roughly $300. It's great!
I usually get my electronics in the US when someone close travels but no one is going to for a while.
What really matters
We're going off-topic here. plain and simple:
1- Is the X10 touchscreen as laggy as in YT videos or is there a way to fix it?(custom ROMs with Jit seen on YT are also affected)
2- Is it only on the home and unlock screen or also applications suffer from this? Someone said that fast games were unbearable because of the slow response.
3- Is it normal that when typing fast the device skips some tappings?
Pleeeease, I really like the X10 but i'll be stuck with it for 1-2 years and $500 will be stripped from my pocket. I know the overall experience is great but I need to have instant feedbak of what i'm doing. I'd hate to treat a supposed to be high end phone with capacitive screen like a low end one with resistive screen: press, then sloooowly move the finger to where you want, then when the object is where you want, (sure?) then release. Sense UI can do it, even in lower specs phones and even the other SE X8 and X10 mini do better.
Alright, flame me if i'm being an a$$ but i reaaally want to get an android phone and start playing with custom ROMs and be a contributing part to the community. I'll do it but someone pleeease honestly answer this questions first. The faster you answer, the faster i'll decide.
Thank you all
dsurka said:
A great cosmic joke:
Went to my local Movistar decided to give the X10 another try.
Me: Hello, I'm interested in renewing my contract and i would like to see the X10 please. (in spanish and less formal of course)
Movistar Employee: no can do sir there's no stock until Jan 1st.
Me: oh cr%#p!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It reminds me old good Soviet time of total deficit: If you see something good, grab it first, then think if you need it.
Try Movistar's office somewhere in the middle of nowhere. I mean in low income areas - they still can have some expensive gadgets at shelves. Come on, I remember those tricks, but you use them in everyday life, like a gift for the salesman or just palms oiling.
About the Post Service
Actually the post service here it's not bad at all, I receive books and blurays from amazon in about a week. But books, magazines,cds, dvds and blurays have no tax but everything else over $100 has $150 of tax + ~50% of the cost. So for buying something at $101 in the US I have to pay roughly $300. It's great!
I usually get my electronics in the US when someone close travels but no one is going to for a while.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have a good news for you - buy your lovely X10 in parts that cheaper, than $100 and assemble them home. You'll proudly can have a sticker on it - "Hand made". It is a little complicated and risky, but you can ask your seller to claim that this device is out of order, for parts and cost less, than $100. And, of course, with two separate transactions.
What really matters
We're going off-topic here. plain and simple:
1- Is the X10 touchscreen as laggy as in YT videos or is there a way to fix it?(custom ROMs with Jit seen on YT are also affected)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Never experienced this, but once the touchscreen overreacted at any touch and made some crazy things. I turned the phone off and after reboot it never happen again. Some lags can be in browser, but I think, it is not because of touchscreen, but partially downloaded pages. Same problem can be in YT videos since they are real time streams.
[COLOR]2- Is it only on the home and unlock screen or also applications suffer from this? Someone said that fast games were unbearable because of the slow response.[/COLOR]
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Click to collapse
Have no idea, not a gamer.
[COLOR]3- Is it normal that when typing fast the device skips some tappings?[/COLOR]
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Click to collapse
I mentioned already overreaction - just before it went completely crazy, there was double and tripple typing errors. I tapped once, but it produced two or three taps - letters or backspaces. It was once and it doesn't look like regular specifically X10 problem. Out of extreems - maybe I type slow at the phone, but it works fine for me.
I tried my friend's LG enV Touch VX11000 - I hate it - requires hard press and pretty laggy. I had iPhone - it works almost the same for me as X10 - fast reaction of touchscreen and interface both.
Pleeeease, I really like the X10 but i'll be stuck with it for 1-2 years and $500 will be stripped from my pocket. I know the overall experience is great but I need to have instant feedbak of what i'm doing. I'd hate to treat a supposed to be high end phone with capacitive screen like a low end one with resistive screen: press, then sloooowly move the finger to where you want, then when the object is where you want, (sure?) then release. Sense UI can do it, even in lower specs phones and even the other SE X8 and X10 mini do better.
Alright, flame me if i'm being an a$$ but i reaaally want to get an android phone and start playing with custom ROMs and be a contributing part to the community. I'll do it but someone pleeease honestly answer this questions first. The faster you answer, the faster i'll decide.
Thank you all
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As you mention, every member of Xperia family works different, so I assume, that those differences are from the actual set of running programs and services. If you are going to play with custom ROMs, you always can modify your phone for faster work or for fancier view. I think, the X10 is the best hardware guinea pig for those purposes especially after the bootloader cracking.
dsurka said:
1- Is the X10 touchscreen as laggy as in YT videos or is there a way to fix it?(custom ROMs with Jit seen on YT are also affected)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In my daily use I don't feel laggy. It's fast in my experience.
2- Is it only on the home and unlock screen or also applications suffer from this? Someone said that fast games were unbearable because of the slow response.
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Click to collapse
Can you mention fast game here? I play pocket legend, angry birds.
3- Is it normal that when typing fast the device skips some tappings?
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Click to collapse
Yes I experience it sometime when I haven't release my first finger but already press another key on the keyboard. But I think it will resolve when MT driver come to Rachael. ^_^
Sent from my X10i using XDA App
There's no lag for me at all. But I use Startup Auditor and Advance Task killer when I first boot or reboot my X10. It's too fast that sometimes when I am slow to type, it will type two of the same letter before i can lift my finger on the keys...
My X10 doesn't lagg, it's fast. With and without JIT.
But with the snow live wallaper it laggs sometime on the homescreen, maybe because of Launcher Pro Plus...
But owners of the Desire posted the same I think.
I'm going to return my tablet to Amazon and wait for something better. I have been using the 10.1 non stop for the past two weeks and it is awesome. The few problems it has are with HC and not the hardware. However, I feel the processing power needs to be a bit higher for 1280x720 resolution and we need more video codecs. Nvidia say they won't make the same mistake with the upcoming quadcore, and since it's only 2 months away, the wait feels justified to me.
Don't get me wrong, this tablet owns all other HC tablets at the moment. I just would be very pissed off if the new tablets like the Amazon Hollywood appeared this Christmas and completely destroyed the performance of my 10.1 along with playing nearly any video I copy onto it.
I urge anyone still within their return period to consider sending it back. It would be one thing if the new tablets were 5 or 6 months out, but 2 months is too close.
ericc191 said:
I'm going to return my tablet to Amazon and wait for something better. I have been using the 10.1 non stop for the past two weeks and it is awesome. The few problems it has are with HC and not the hardware. However, I feel the processing power needs to be a bit higher for 1280x720 resolution and we need more video codecs. Nvidia say they won't make the same mistake with the upcoming quadcore, and since it's only 2 months away, the wait feels justified to me.
Don't get me wrong, this tablet owns all other HC tablets at the moment. I just would be very pissed off if the new tablets like the Amazon Hollywood appeared this Christmas and completely destroyed the performance of my 10.1 along with playing nearly any video I copy onto it.
I urge anyone still within their return period to send it back. It would be one thing if the new tablets were 5 or 6 months out, but 2 months is too close.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You do understand that if you actually lived by that way of thinking, you would literally (seriously, joking aside) never own a tablet...? Because lets say you were thinking about the original G-Tab when it first came out...but then heard that Honeycomb was on its way, so you waited...then Honeycomb shows up with its array of tablets (the Tegra 2 generation)...and as tempting and highly-praised as they may be, you then hear about the next round of Honeycomb tablets (with quadcores )...but wait! not all that long after that should be the Ice Cream Sandwich debut with yet ANOTHER suite of tablets (with maybe hexa- or octo-core chips! ), so I'm guessing you should wait for THOSE to come out, right?!?
No offense man, but I really wish people would come up with more logical, legitimate, and justifiable excuses for not buying new pieces of electronics, because face it - it is a 100% certainty that within 6 months of your purchase of said piece of electronics, it WILL be outdated to some extent. Like it or not, it is a virtual guarantee that within that amount of time the successor generation of products (in this case tablets) will hit the market with better specs and features than that of the product you bought. And that is a stone-cold fact something that all of us as fans of electronics and gizmos simply have to come to grips with.
joeski27 said:
You do understand that if you actually lived by that way of thinking, you would literally (seriously, joking aside) never own a tablet...? Because lets say you were thinking about the original G-Tab when it first came out...but then heard that Honeycomb was on its way, so you waited...then Honeycomb shows up with its array of tablets (Tegra 2)...and as tempting as they may be, you then hear about the next round of Honeycomb tablets (with quadcores )...but wait! not all that long after that should be the Ice Cream Sandwich debut with yet ANOTHER suite of tablets (with maybe hexa- or octo-core chips! ), so I'm guessing you should wait for THOSE to come out, right?!?
No offense man, but I really wish people would come up with more logical, legitimate, and justifiable excuses for not buying new pieces of electronics, because face it - it is a 100% certainty that within 6 months of your purchase of said piece of electronics, it WILL be outdated to some extent. And that is a stone-cold fact something that all of us as fans of electronics and gizmos simply have to come to grips with.
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Click to collapse
If you read my OP, you would see my reasoning which should be more than justified with the next slew of more powerful tablets. 6 months is fine to me. Not 2 months, though.
I'll give you an example. I recently built myself a computer and started out with an X58 and a Core i7-950. About a month and a half later, the new P67 boards came out and that awesome i7-2600K with them. I asked on many forums what I should do and most said I should be happy with what I had. I ignored that advice and couldn't be happier. But, when I was building the 2600K rig, everyone kept telling me I was wasting my time because Z68 boards. I don't care about the upcoming Z68 boards because I'm very pleased with my PC. It's far superior to the i7-950 build and it will last for quite some time.
Tegra2 just isn't powerful enough. I can't even use a live wallpaper without stuff becoming sluggish and you can't argue that one. Try moving an icon around with a live wallpaper running.
Their pricey toys...not investments.
Well, in my case they sure are an investment literally, doing post-graduation the laod of coursebooks is unbearable, these a step ahead from usual e-ink crap have helped me a lot, adding the annotation feature. It ain't mere multimedia box where you throw all 1080p movies (God knows from where!) and expect playback or else failure. Consider the excellent resolution, the browser experience with flash and excellent apps around (actually mean the THD games!) plus QUick office HD (as free!!! take this iPAD) and pdf readers like Repligo and eZpdf.
One man's bad experience doesn't justify the claimed redundancy of such a wonderful piece of technology! Quad-cores ahead, sure let'em on, more fun is ahead, massive multitasking and profound browser experience with emerging social networks like google+ and prevalent Fbook!
In short, Screw you man! I am keeping mine!
mughalgxt said:
Well, in my case they sure are an investment literally, doing post-graduation the laod of coursebooks is unbearable, these a step ahead from usual e-ink crap have helped me a lot, adding the annotation feature. It ain't mere multimedia box where you throw all 1080p movies (God knows from where!) and expect playback or else failure. Consider the excellent resolution, the browser experience with flash and excellent apps around (actually mean the THD games!) plus QUick office HD (as free!!! take this iPAD) and pdf readers like Repligo and eZpdf.
One man's bad experience doesn't justify the claimed redundancy of such a wonderful piece of technology! Quad-cores ahead, sure let'em on, more fun is ahead, massive multitasking and profound browser experience with emerging social networks like google+ and prevalent Fbook!
In short, Screw you man! I am keeping mine!
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Click to collapse
I definitely love the very last sentence of this.
Now see I'm not saying the tablet is a bad experience. But I think it's a good idea to hold out a few months. It's the same thing with phones. I really like the Sensation and the Evo 3D, but the Nexus is coming this Christmas too. I've been patiently waiting for it.
task650 said:
I definitely love the very last sentence of this.
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Effing priceless
ericc191 said:
Now see I'm not saying the tablet is a bad experience. But I think it's a good idea to hold out a few months. It's the same thing with phones. I really like the Sensation and the Evo 3D, but the Nexus is coming this Christmas too. I've been patiently waiting for it.
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Click to collapse
So are you honestly going to say that right about when the time comes for you to buy the phone you're holding out for and you hear rumors swirling about the next phone after that (and this will happen, by the way, it has happen with every single major period of Android-related releases so far), that you won't be tempted to do the same thing over again (that is, hold off until that comes out?). You seem to be missing the point - if you subscribe to this it will unarguably be an endless circle. And it is by no means your fault necessarily, its the Apples, Samsungs, HTCs, LGs, Sonys, Motorolas, Toshibas, etc of the world who are coming out with newer generations of productions, not yearly, or even every 6 months, but most often even less than that. Of course the good side of that is the technology is progressing super fast these days, so I guess that's the tradeoff that we all have to live with - major progression and innovation of tech but with each piece getting trumped by the next every few months
I can honestly say I will get the Nexus 3 or whatever it will be called, regardless of upcoming rumors around that time. As long as it's not done like the Nexus S was. A clone of a phone already out.
ericc191 said:
I can honestly say I will get the Nexus 3 or whatever it will be called, regardless of upcoming rumors around that time. As long as it's not done like the Nexus S was. A clone of a phone already out.
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Click to collapse
Well I can definitely agree on you with the Nexus S - I am an N1 owner, from the day of launch, and I have yet to see another new phone on the market since then that can hold a candle to that phone, period. Now that being said, we'll all have to wait and see what the N3 will be all about. If you recall, the Nexus S was rumored to have quite a lot going for it...until it saw the light of day, at which point we were all like, "what?". So clearly the N3 has some really big shoes to fill, and hopefully those developing it realize this completely.
ericc191 said:
Now see I'm not saying the tablet is a bad experience. But I think it's a good idea to hold out a few months. It's the same thing with phones. I really like the Sensation and the Evo 3D, but the Nexus is coming this Christmas too. I've been patiently waiting for it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've been waiting for a Verizon phone with a dual core and LTE forever now and guess what, it'll probably be outdated when it arrives, maybe I should hold off for a quad-core, kal-el, or maybe a 6-core or just maybe wait 25 years in hopes that phones are so advanced every new one will be just like the others (wont happen). Buy now and use it for a few year and sell it on ebay and pay a couple more dollars to get the next gen.
There will always be something newer and faster. And just like our tab, they too will not be perfect.
I definitely understand the point you guys are making. But I'm not concerned about having the newest and best. It's about getting something that works well and also satisfies. If I'm dropping 500 dollars, I want to be completely happy with my purchase and I'm not with the 10.1.
EDIT: I'm going to sign up for that AMEX membership so I can have that option in the future as well.
I never understood the point of threads like these. OP has an opinion; others have their own. What's the point of a poll? And more to the point, regarding the following quote:
ericc191 said:
I urge anyone still within their return period to send it back.
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F-you, OP. You don't have the right to "urge" me to do anything. Your opinion is your own -- but when you try to impose it on me, we've got a problem.
Berner said:
You don't have the right to "urge" me to do anything. Your opinion is your own -- but when you try to impose it on me, we've got a problem.
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Exactly this!
Berner said:
I never understood the point of threads like these. OP has an opinion; others have their own. What's the point of a poll? And more to the point, regarding the following quote:
F-you, OP. You don't have the right to "urge" me to do anything. Your opinion is your own -- but when you try to impose it on me, we've got a problem.
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Click to collapse
I can see how that came off wrong. What I meant is that I urge people to consider it.
The point of a thread and poll like this was to see if anyone else was thinking of doing the same thing as me. That's why we have the poll option.
Don't get so worked up over something on the internet. It causes stress.
ericc191 said:
I'll give you an example. I recently built myself a computer and started out with an X58 and a Core i7-950. About a month and a half later, the new P67 boards came out and that awesome i7-2600K with them. I asked on many forums what I should do and most said I should be happy with what I had. I ignored that advice and couldn't be happier. But, when I was building the 2600K rig, everyone kept telling me I was wasting my time because Z68 boards. I don't care about the upcoming Z68 boards because I'm very pleased with my PC. It's far superior to the i7-950 build and it will last for quite some time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I understand your thought process, but herein lies the problem:
You returned your old PC and upgraded it and I am sure you are extremely pleased with what you have. Now, if you would have kept your i7-950 build you would have also been extremely pleased with it.
With the way hardware technology is advancing, software developers cannot keep up. How many applications do you have that take advantage of the extra speed of that newer generation processor? Heck, how many applications are there that actually take use of anything higher than a dual core processor? Not many - and in your case, there's probably only a handful of applications that will use the newest generation processors to their potential. In all likelihood you don't use these, and even if you do, you only use them extremely rarely.
The same thing is happening in the Tablet field, although to a stronger extent. I actually don't know of any applications that take use of the dual-core processors in newer generation phones and tablets. In fact, Froyo and Gingerbread don't even take use of dual-core processors at the kernel level. Applications being built for mobile devices just aren't likely to be designed with multi-threading in mind.
Keep this in mind when you are deciding to take your tablet back - but I wish you good luck nonetheless.
You bring up some good points. I play a lot of PC games and noticed a good amount of difference, but outside of games not much.
And there's is a good chance I could get *screwed* with a quad core tablet that overheats and has horrible battery life. We'll see.
ericc191 said:
I can see how that came off wrong. What I meant is that I urge people to consider it.
The point of a thread and poll like this was to see if anyone else was thinking of doing the same thing as me. That's why we have the poll option.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why do you think you need to urge people to consider returning their Tabs? We're not children who need to be reminded of our options as consumers. Your ex post facto reinterpretation is nearly as patronizing as your original post.
While I give you credit for acting civil in your posts -- an unusual accomplishment in this genre of threads -- it still appears to me that you're just looking to provoke polarizing responses. Whether the Tab is or isn't a good purchase for someone is matter of personal opinion. No poll or discussion is going to change that.
well, my order of 4 from cpw came today, and I was going to get rid of spares and keep one if I thought they were no good (compared to all the tablets I have (Ipads,galaxy tabs, transformer, wierd brands etc) for dev purposes btw). But, omg, webOs so far is quite nice, the device aint too bad either. So going to give 3 to friends and family and keep 1 to play with. Downloading SDK as I type and had a quick read.
So, after not minding the hardware at all, and thinking that as a 1st pass young tablet webos is probably better than androids attempt, add to the fact that the SDK from reading (not use) looks to be even better than android......
Some1 remind me again, why did this thing fail? Just price? if thats the case, £299 would have made this and ensuing development a killer? Or am I missing some big point here?
Cheers
Cost, immature software, lack of features, small developer ecosphere, late to market, tons of competition...
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App
phobos512 said:
Cost, immature software, lack of features, small developer ecosphere, late to market, tons of competition...
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App
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Click to collapse
baring the last two, that true of any os that has just come to market
Shame me thinks
It fails because it is one of the most expensive, heaviest, thickest, and has the least features (no back camera, not way to connect USB/SD memory card...) and least tablet apps. Coming late in the game HP should have done a better job...no excuse. HP designed the tablet poorly...consumers are not stupid like them...very disappointed in in HP. Whoever design/engineer/market the Touchpad should be fired....such a waste of resources. Guess it's worth $99, at least they priced it correctly now.
phobos512 said:
Cost, immature software, lack of features, small developer ecosphere, late to market, tons of competition...
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It the nail right on the head, but I think it's mainly because of the price. Apple has some one figured out a way of brain washing people to buy everything they put out at any price. Other companies haven't figured it out so until they do they need to figure out how to get the cost down on tablets. Could imagine the frenzy over the Galaxy 10.1 if it would have been priced 199 or 299?
The HP tab fire sale proves there is a market for the Tab but just not at the price they are bouncing around.
deanwray said:
baring the last two, that true of any os that has just come to market
Shame me thinks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Granted, but webOS didn't come to market with the Touchpad - it's been out for several years. It was a very buggy platform from all the reading I've done, and there was still a fair number of issues even after the last patch was released (just go look at PreCentral).
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App
wondercoolguy said:
It the nail right on the head, but I think it's mainly because of the price. Apple has some one figured out a way of brain washing people to buy everything they put out at any price. Other companies haven't figured it out so until they do they need to figure out how to get the cost down on tablets. Could imagine the frenzy over the Galaxy 10.1 if it would have been priced 199 or 299?
The HP tab fire sale proves there is a market for the Tab but just not at the price they are bouncing around.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Price was probably the biggest factor. It was more expensive than most any other tablet for less capability and less compatibility. For example, licking it down to print only to HP printers or tether to HP/Palm phones? Ridiculous.
It's sort of amazing the position Apple is in now given how bad off they were in the late 80s and 90s. Really sucked being a Mac user back then (haven't been a Mac user since then though).
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App
phobos512 said:
Price was probably the biggest factor. It was more expensive than most any other tablet for less capability and less compatibility. For example, licking it down to print only to HP printers or tether to HP/Palm phones? Ridiculous.
It's sort of amazing the position Apple is in now given how bad off they were in the late 80s and 90s. Really sucked being a Mac user back then (haven't been a Mac user since then though).
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well, I agree (Being a 3D artist myself) that the design is a little off, but I do like the form factor of these (and obviously my iPad) and that factor suits my development plans for tablets more than my transformer or indeed any of my 10inch tablets.
I would be in heaven even with the weight and cribb design if this was an android unit with the same UI features etc at a £250 price point.
I personally think this device and OS had great potential for a tablet, but like you say, if the palm devices showed lots of buggs, maybe hp could have never sorted it with the team they had. Still say shame though
Pretty much failed because the general populations definition of a tablet is the iPad. Like others said, price and too many competitors. After a couple of days with my Touchpad, and some tweaking, I like it. I am impressed with webOS.
But I feel bad for the poor souls who bought this thing from the get-go for 500 bucks because performance wise it has it's hiccups for no reason. Notice some lag sometimes for no reason and delays when trying to do simple things. I feel like the auto rotate is too sensitive as well.
dtblair24 said:
Pretty much failed because the general populations definition of a tablet is the iPad. Like others said, price and too many competitors. After a couple of days with my Touchpad, and some tweaking, I like it. I am impressed with webOS.
But I feel bad for the poor souls who bought this thing from the get-go for 500 bucks because performance wise it has it's hiccups for no reason. Notice some lag sometimes for no reason and delays when trying to do simple things. I feel like the auto rotate is too sensitive as well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Have you installed preware and in turn the log diable stuff, speed stuff and the OMG it's now way too loud sound mod!
what.....I'm deff!
deanwray said:
well, my order of 4 from cpw came today, and I was going to get rid of spares and keep one if I thought they were no good (compared to all the tablets I have (Ipads,galaxy tabs, transformer, wierd brands etc) for dev purposes btw). But, omg, webOs so far is quite nice, the device aint too bad either. So going to give 3 to friends and family and keep 1 to play with. Downloading SDK as I type and had a quick read.
So, after not minding the hardware at all, and thinking that as a 1st pass young tablet webos is probably better than androids attempt, add to the fact that the SDK from reading (not use) looks to be even better than android......
Some1 remind me again, why did this thing fail? Just price? if thats the case, £299 would have made this and ensuing development a killer? Or am I missing some big point here?
Cheers
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
so to say it just sucks is not what the op is looking for.
The unit itself is amazing. I have been a die hard android fan with my hd2 but the ui of this tablet is extremely functional. Having multiple frames for apps makes this an amazing item for me. The keyboard is very easy to use and the quality of the item is A+. Like many others I would like the android market but webOS. Two big things for me is the memory expansion and no hdmi out but I will live. If I were to release this product I would say 299 and 399 would be fair.
I think the price is the only reason it failed. From using the xoom and iPad I find this, minus the features listed above, to be the better unit. $99 is an amazing deal for this great piece of machinary.
Here's one reason:
"Rubinstein wasn't exactly thrilled about the timing of the TouchPad's release, saying CEO Leo Apotheker had failed to make good on a public promise to ship the tablet only when it was "perfect."
Source
I think a bigger issue deals with consumer education about a new OS. The transition from an android phone to an android tablet or an iphone to an iPad is seamless WebOS phones had a miniscule market share. WebOS came to market late in the game. It took an incredible price on the TP to get consumers to take the leap to a new platform. Now that they are here they may like what they see.
It failed for one simple reason. The OS and apps weren't ready and weren't polished. I think the hardware is amazing, save for the volume rocker and the super thin "home" button and maybe the screen which apparently generates its own fingerprints and smudges out of thin air. The OS on the other hand has so much potential but they completely screwed it. If I had purchased this at anything over 150, which is what I paid for the 32gb, I would return it or sell it.
Take this one example. The browser doesn't load pages in the background. If you load a new card like you would a tab and return to the original browser card, the new one just sits there and does . . . nothing. Doesn't load or render the webpage. It just sits there like a bookmark to the site you wanted to load. I mean seriously? This is like iPad1 crap, which was solved in like a couple weeks with third party browsers. With 4 times the ram, for some reason WebOS doesn't find it necessary even without a single other app loaded on a fresh boot to actually load the card in the background. The way I browse the web is to load a trillion tabs and then go through them and read. That would be absolutely excruciating on the Touchpad.
muyoso said:
It failed for one simple reason. The OS and apps weren't ready and weren't polished.
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Click to collapse
About the same as the 1st Galaxy Tab P1000 android version
The OS on the other hand has so much potential but they completely screwed it. If I had purchased this at anything over 150, which is what I paid for the 32gb, I would return it or sell it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
over 150 ? Bit harsh I think. From a development perspective, software is never finished, you just get to a point where you either HAVE to release or it's ACCEPTABLE to release.
Take this one example. The browser doesn't load pages in the background. If you load a new card like you would a tab and return to the original browser card, the new one just sits there and does . . . nothing. Doesn't load or render the webpage. It just sits there like a bookmark to the site you wanted to load. I mean seriously? This is like iPad1 crap, which was solved in like a couple weeks with third party browsers. With 4 times the ram, for some reason WebOS doesn't find it necessary even without a single other app loaded on a fresh boot to actually load the card in the background.
The way I browse the web is to load a trillion tabs and then go through them and read. That would be absolutely excruciating on the Touchpad.
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Click to collapse
I dont actually think thats a representation of the average user. I maybe open 7 tabs on a pc, I sure they would have put in background loading eventually.
dtblair24 said:
Pretty much failed because the general populations definition of a tablet is the iPad. Like others said, price and too many competitors. After a couple of days with my Touchpad, and some tweaking, I like it. I am impressed with webOS.
But I feel bad for the poor souls who bought this thing from the get-go for 500 bucks because performance wise it has it's hiccups for no reason. Notice some lag sometimes for no reason and delays when trying to do simple things. I feel like the auto rotate is too sensitive as well.
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Click to collapse
this is exactly why it failed. Why do you have to tweak it for it to work smoothly. It should be like that out the box
imsuperjp said:
this is exactly why it failed. Why do you have to tweak it for it to work smoothly. It should be like that out the box
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Click to collapse
name a tablet product other than ipad (ios) that at release was like what you wanted, smooth out of the box, cause I cant think of one?
Honestly I don't think it failed because of the OS the majority of people out there are absolutely clueless as to what the difference android/ios and web OS brings when I recommend android phones to people nearly all of them haven't got a clue what I'm on about there more interested in if it can download apps. I personally think its more to do with marketing and more important price(why pay 399 for a unknown hp tablet when you can pay 399 for a apple ipad) people have to understand that the majority of consumers are near clueless about tech,ive gad so many people pick up android tabs asking if this is the ipad lol
I think you have to go way back to the palm pre for the answer. Great OS. Not a bad spec phone for the time. But Sprint was the exclusive carrier and didn't do jack to promote it. So everyone was seeing iPhone this and Droid that. No one was hearing about webOS until it was in the news that they were broke and hp was buying them. That's my opinion anyway. I have a palm pre(in a desk) have an evo (daily driver) and I hands down would take webOS on the evo hardware any day.
Everyone thinks this tablet has failed, if that's the case then why did a million people buy it? I know it's cheap compared to the iPad but with over a millions users this tablet should take off and be a big competitor with Apple. Maybe that was the intention all along, think how much HP saved on marketing, plus all the revenue they could get from some many users.
Give it a few months, Webos will be rocking the tablet world!
I've been a Nexus phone user for a long time, and now I own a Nexus 7 tablet. My wife just got a Galaxy S2 (work provided) and I find what Samsung has done to the software of that phone appalling. Especially since Ice Cream Sandwich Android has become minimalistically beautiful. I love my stock "Google Experience". Everything is so simple and beautiful.
My question is this, would it be feasible to crowd source an open sourced hardware project to design and build an android phone? I've developed software for years but don't know anything about developing hardware outside of my arduino kit. Hardware vendors are failing by trying to focus on software (like Samsung and HTC) as the differentiator, seemingly forgetting that thy are hardware manufacturers and great hardware should be enough.
My thought is to design a fairly cheap (at or under $500), hopefully high quality phone that is compatible with stock Android. Think something like the Nexus 7 only at 4-4.3 inches and with a cell radio. If its compatible with stock Android then we wouldn't have to spend time like Samsung does making our software compatible with the newest Android release before making it available to the public.
Are there any hardware engineers out there who might be able to tell me what this would take? I'm sure it would take a lot of people and a lot of time, and might not be possible without billions in the bank, but I'd like to know if the necessary skills exist in the community and if we can pull them together.
I doubt it will be possible just because of the amount of funds necessary to begin such a project. OEM's can make their devices because they order components in mass quantities so they get wholesale pricing and I just don't see the demand for such a device being enough to crowd-source it.
I think that the phone hardware should be a mid-low quality one in order to get the funds needed to slowly start making them. And even with that, it's not an easy task, since you will be selling a mid-low quality device for the price of a high quality one. You would have to offer something more.
But it's an interesting idea.
I am an electrical engineer that specialized in digital design and computer software, and made some custom boards for a small company. So, I'm speaking from some experience, not just blowing smoke out my ***.
Is it possible to design a phone? Sure.
I would guess the processor would have to come from TI, and Qualcomm and NVIDIA have such bad support reputations.
We would need a team of engineers on par with the size of the CyanogenMod community. We need electrical engineers from digital, RF, analog, power... and probably other EE specializations. Then some mechanical and probably other engineers.
For under $500? No.
As previously noted, the manufacturers are buying LARGE quantities, probably with lots of legal agreements, to get better prices than we could asking for 1,000 (if we're lucky) at a time... IF we could get enough priority to get our hands on that many.
The printed circuit boards alone are going to be expensive, not counting the cost of adding the components to it/them. The board(s) in your phone are (complete guess here) 6 or more layers, divided into digital, analog, and RF sections, with internal vias (connections from one layer to another that do not pass clear through the whole stack of layers.) They've been simulated in expensive CAD software, prototyped and tested in a $nnn,000 test chamber, possibly sent back for a design tweak one ore more times, THEN sent to the FCC
+equivalents for their OK. In other words, $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.
Adding to the previous point, these are tiny, MANY pin, surface mount components, that cannot be soldered by hand. So, you've got to find a custom board assembly company, and pay to have the parts added.
Alternatively, it could be a little cheaper, but it would be the size of one or more of the Harry Potter books... in hardback.
Then get your hands on: batteries, charger, display, Gorilla glass, and a case to hold it all.
The only reason why we see phones at $500, or $200 with contract, is because the carriers are going to get a huge amount of money from you when you pay for service. I guessing here, but those prices are both subsidized by the carrier. That $500 price has already reduced from the manufacturer's price using money sucked from the customers under contract.
Haraldr Blaatand said:
I am an electrical engineer that specialized in digital design and computer software, and made some custom boards for a small company. So, I'm speaking from some experience, not just blowing smoke out my ***.
Is it possible to design a phone? Sure.
I would guess the processor would have to come from TI, and Qualcomm and NVIDIA have such bad support reputations.
We would need a team of engineers on par with the size of the CyanogenMod community. We need electrical engineers from digital, RF, analog, power... and probably other EE specializations. Then some mechanical and probably other engineers.
For under $500? No.
As previously noted, the manufacturers are buying LARGE quantities, probably with lots of legal agreements, to get better prices than we could asking for 1,000 (if we're lucky) at a time... IF we could get enough priority to get our hands on that many.
The printed circuit boards alone are going to be expensive, not counting the cost of adding the components to it/them. The board(s) in your phone are (complete guess here) 6 or more layers, divided into digital, analog, and RF sections, with internal vias (connections from one layer to another that do not pass clear through the whole stack of layers.) They've been simulated in expensive CAD software, prototyped and tested in a $nnn,000 test chamber, possibly sent back for a design tweak one ore more times, THEN sent to the FCC
+equivalents for their OK. In other words, $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.
Adding to the previous point, these are tiny, MANY pin, surface mount components, that cannot be soldered by hand. So, you've got to find a custom board assembly company, and pay to have the parts added.
Alternatively, it could be a little cheaper, but it would be the size of one or more of the Harry Potter books... in hardback.
Then get your hands on: batteries, charger, display, Gorilla glass, and a case to hold it all.
The only reason why we see phones at $500, or $200 with contract, is because the carriers are going to get a huge amount of money from you when you pay for service. I guessing here, but those prices are both subsidized by the carrier. That $500 price has already reduced from the manufacturer's price using money sucked from the customers under contract.
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Click to collapse
That's a lot of great information. I have a few thoughts.
You mention the $500 price point being subsidized, but that's not necessarily true. I buy only unlocked devices without contract (not from Carriers) and my Nexus S cost $529 new.
What about just using a reference design from a manufacturer, essentially just a rebadge. You can see that Orange has done that with the Intel Medfield reference design.
rharter said:
That's a lot of great information. I have a few thoughts.
1. You mention the $500 price point being subsidized, but that's not necessarily true. I buy only unlocked devices without contract (not from Carriers) and my Nexus S cost $529 new.
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Click to collapse
Then I'm not as smart as I think I am. It was a guess. I was wrong.
rharter said:
2. What about just using a reference design from a manufacturer, essentially just a rebadge. You can see that Orange has done that with the Intel Medfield reference design.
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Click to collapse
This is a complete phone they are selling to carriers (to help get their Atom processors some attention). From this article about the Medfield reference design:
The more tempting possibility is one that I'm not sure Intel is feeling risky enough to explore, at least not in 2012. Selling its reference design through a carrier is one thing, what I really want to see is Intel selling the reference design, unlocked, to consumers directly.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So, without more information, I don't see this as any different than most other phones. The phone is still a black box to be hacked.
I did a little googling, and didn't find anything in the way of actual design details. I did come across this article Fast, good, or cheap - or why you can't build a smartphone, which basically says the same thing... only with a more cynical attitude.
HTC "stand with" apple against Samsung
no sd card unchangeable battery
pick one company to ship their elite produce
sound like HTC become more like Apple
and make a deal with them on patents
two giants making a war and HTC pick apple side
Very sad
Proz00 said:
HTC "stand with" apple against Samsung
no sd card unchangeable battery
pick one company to ship their elite produce
sound like HTC become more like Apple
and make a deal with them on patents
two giants making a war and HTC pick apple side
Very sad
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Then they will fail along with Apple :good:. Oh wait.. *looks at HTC's profits*
Proz00 said:
HTC "stand with" apple against Samsung
no sd card unchangeable battery
pick one company to ship their elite produce
sound like HTC become more like Apple
and make a deal with them on patents
two giants making a war and HTC pick apple side
Very sad
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was kind of thinking the same thing when final DNA specs came out. Maybe the next big thing will have a micro sd and removable battery when I'm eligible next year. If this becomes a trend I may have to get a tablet to go along with my phone down the line. Makes me appreciate my Rezound even more. Just my $.02.
Sent from my ADR6425LVW using xda premium
djwalter said:
I was kind of thinking the same thing when final DNA specs came out. Maybe the next big thing will have a micro sd and removable battery when I'm eligible next year. If this becomes a trend I may have to get a tablet to go along with my phone down the line. Makes me appreciate my Rezound even more. Just my $.02.
Sent from my ADR6425LVW using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
With the iPhone being the gold standard in phone design and Google's Nexus phones moving towards no external storage and non-replaceable batteries, I think the other OEMs are taking suit and following. It is a shame since I utilize two batteries (both standard) to keep me afloat when I don't have downtime to charge my Rezound around 12-2pm every day. Android/Android+UI skins and the hardware are not optimized enough to offer what the iPhone can - a 1440mAH battery and all day or longer battery life.
To OP:
I disagree with HTC picking "a side". They release phones on multiple carriers, unlike Apple's original stance with AT&T-only. A problem is the fact they are having an identity crisis at the moment. They're phones are labeled under carrier-owned franchises (DROID, EVO, etc) rather than their own (e.g.: one), although it seems like they're working on that...slowly. They're definitely the last one to the game out of the big 3, with Motorola reviving the 'RAZR' platform and Samsung running with their 'Galaxy' series. It's fragmented in a way for non-carrier branded phones, like the Thunderbolt to the Rezound to now Droid DNA. No consumer who doesn't have an interest in phones like we do will ever realize the successors and predecessors because these are all new phone names...not just a new generation (like iPhone 5 or the GS3 or even RAZR HD). They need to stick with the 'one' branding and work on only a couple of phones at a time and spread it across all carriers possible to grant the most access to consumers. Motorola tried the whole 'let's throw a bunch of phones against a wall and see which ones stick'...it didn't get them too far and then they were overwhelmed with phone updates (sound ... familiar?). Although exclusivity is excellent for the carrier, it's negative for the manufacturer...and with no manufacturer, no phone. In the US, the manufacturer needs carrier support more than the carriers need an individual manufacturer.
In reality, I think HTC realizes this mistake due to the falling bottom line and is hopefully getting plans to turn this sinking ship around. After enjoying AOSP on the OG Droid to despising MotoBlur on the DX (and going with CM7) to actually enjoying the aesthetics Sense 3.5 and now Sense 4 (seriously, the Rezound should have had an OEM upgrade to Sense 4), my phone has been rock solid since launch day, exactly one year ago today (oh shiz, my warranty expires today!). I enjoy HTC's build quality and having an OEM-supported unlockable bootloader and a community-supported S-OFF initiative and wish them the best in turning themselves around. Never have I ever been so content with a phone until I got the Rezound...and a year later, I still love this device. It does everything I want and then some.
TL;DR - HTC needs to stick with the 'one' series and man the fudge up to the carriers.
Imitation said:
TL;DR - HTC needs to stick with the 'one' series and man the fudge up to the carriers.
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Click to collapse
This isn't reddit.
I am also disappointed with HTC. Only 16 GB? That's awful.
GrayTheWolf said:
This isn't reddit.
I am also disappointed with HTC. Only 16 GB? That's awful.
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Ctrl + F
"le"
No results found.
I fail to see what's so Reddit about that post.
But I do agree that only 16GB of storage is a load of bull.
@OP the thing is 99% of consumers could give a **** if the phone has a removable battery/SD card. Only the techies do. HTC phones are aimed at consumers, not techies.
u mean more iFanboys like ?
AshtonTS said:
@OP the thing is 99% of consumers could give a **** if the phone has a removable battery/SD card. Only the techies do. HTC phones are aimed at consumers, not techies.
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Click to collapse
With me the deal breaker is that i can't get my music onto 16 gigabytes
Sent from my ADR6425LVW using Tapatalk 2
kyuubi08 said:
With me the deal breaker is that i can't get my music onto 16 gigabytes
Sent from my ADR6425LVW using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ashton is right.
There is only a very small percentage of people that actually care about more than 16 gigs if storage. You are one of them.
GrayTheWolf said:
Ashton is right.
There is only a very small percentage of people that actually care about more than 16 gigs if storage. You are one of them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's why they should come out with different models like a 16gb 32gb and a 64gb.
Sent from my ADR6425LVW using xda premium
chrisjz said:
That's why they should come out with different models like a 16gb 32gb and a 64gb.
Sent from my ADR6425LVW using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think they should just add a micro SD slot so stores don't have to carry 3 times the inventory.
GrayTheWolf said:
I think they should just add a micro SD slot so stores don't have to carry 3 times the inventory.
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Click to collapse
The weird thing is I saw a 32 gig sd card on ebay for the DNA. Which is weird considering no sd slot unless it's an internal sd slot like the early wp7 devices.
GrayTheWolf said:
Ashton is right.
There is only a very small percentage of people that actually care about more than 16 gigs if storage. You are one of them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Personally, at 11gb usable, I think this phone will have a hard time selling, especially when following the Note 2 (only reason I could see buying the DNA over the Note - price. That being said, people are picking up the Note 2, on AT&T, for $199. Yeah, the DNA has a better looking spec sheet...but, it is DEFINITELY not for me). I would buy a phablet so I would not have to carry a phone (to listen to my music) AND a 7" tablet to read/minor surfing. Still need a 10" Tablet... All that said...I love HTC products. Bought the Inspire, upgraded to the Vivid, downgraded to the Inspire again, bought the HTC Flyer tablet.
With all due respect, if so few people care about no "more than 16 gigs of storage", why did Google drop the Nexus 8 gig line? Why is their no 8 gig line? I think the people HAVE spoken by saying if you ARE going to take our storage cards away, at least give us the option to increase our storage space from the get go. My guess is, you will see other "options" available as time goes on. Also, though we are seeing more phones come available with no removable battery/no sd card, my guess is there will always be people wanting those features. As we become more and more mobile and phones become larger, we will change our viewing habits from TV at home to watching them via phone/tablet. There will be a need for larger and larger memory options. Add the clamp down on internet usage, throttling, etc., people are not going to WANT to use a cloud for their music/videos, especially as we are primarily an instant gratification society.
Today, there may only be a small percentage who care about more than 16 gigs (I would tend to disagree with that statement but anywho). Tomorrow, the numbers will grow...and grow...and grow. Apple is expecting to double the 7" tablet market every year for the next 2 years. The more I do away from my 10TB of HDD space at home, the more I am going to need when mobile.
I cant wait till I see all this blow over
Very simply said .
Google, apple and now HTC took away our SD card slots to put every thing on a cloud
Verizon took away our unlimited , even thought ATT let their old customers keep it with upgrading
The DNA takes away removable battery , so if you run out , well your not carrying a mobile any more
Then , to my surprise, this particular HTC phone (the DNA) doesent surf and talk on 3g like all HTC 4g phones . (DONT START THE ARGUMENT THAT 3G IS INCAPABLE OF IT, LOOK AT TBOLT, S3 AND REZOUND FORUMS).
to get what ? a quad core processor ( how many actually will use its full potential ) and a screen that our human eyes can not possible distinguish from 720.
Where do you guys think this is going to go ? I simply can not predict an outcome, but i feel like not only are we just bending over, we just swallowed too
jmichaels1982 said:
to get what ? a quad core processor ( how many actually will use its full potential ) and a screen that our human eyes can not possible distinguish from 720.
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Click to collapse
I don't know about you, but I can clearly see the pixels on the Rezound screen from over a foot away. Now it may or may not be practical to make higher-resolution screens - on the Rezound, for pixels to become a problem in reading text, the text would have to be way too small to read comfortably anyway. But a screen on which I cannot see pixels would look nicer. And I hear the DNA screen, like the One screen, also uses thinner panels or panels of a slightly different material, so colors should look better apart from the higher resolution.
About the processor, I hear it will greatly improve battery life by managing power consumption better. I don't know if any dual core processors manage battery as well as the S4, but even if the S4's full power will rarely be needed, anything that significantly improves battery life is welcome.
I would not get a device with less than 32 gb total storage, so I am hoping that when I do get another phone (probably in two or three more years, or when my Rezound dies and there is a better phone for under $100), there will be a good device with at least 32 gb.
My Rezound battery generally lasts me through the day, but when I will not have access to power for a full day or more, I carry an extra battery, so I'm fine with non-removable batteries as long as they last at least a little longer than the Rezound's.
Max725 said:
I don't know about you, but I can clearly see the pixels on the Rezound screen from over a foot away. Now it may or may not be practical to make higher-resolution screens - on the Rezound, for pixels to become a problem in reading text, the text would have to be way too small to read comfortably anyway. But a screen on which I cannot see pixels would look nicer. And I hear the DNA screen, like the One screen, also uses thinner panels or panels of a slightly different material, so colors should look better apart from the higher resolution.
About the processor, I hear it will greatly improve battery life by managing power consumption better. I don't know if any dual core processors manage battery as well as the S4, but even if the S4's full power will rarely be needed, anything that significantly improves battery life is welcome.
I would not get a device with less than 32 gb total storage, so I am hoping that when I do get another phone (probably in two or three more years, or when my Rezound dies and there is a better phone for under $100), there will be a good device with at least 32 gb.
My Rezound battery generally lasts me through the day, but when I will not have access to power for a full day or more, I carry an extra battery, so I'm fine with non-removable batteries as long as they last at least a little longer than the Rezound's.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ha. I don't believe you for a minute. I can see them if I put my eyes right up on the screen, but other than that they are almost indistinguishable. And even then I can't see them good. Will the 1080 screen be nice, sure, worth buying another HTC device that will take 9 years to never see a update, not a snowballs chance in hell. HTC might could win me back as a customer if they actually start updating their devices and listen to their customers, but until then, no thanks. The rezound will be my last I believe. I damn sure am not buying a device that doesn't have a removable battery. And the only way I am giving up an SD card is if it comes with a 64 gb variant. Which it doesn't. Even apple realizes this, so this nonsense from google and HTC about not including SD slots is stupid if you won't at least give us ones with 32/64 gb internal memories.
1454 said:
Ha. I don't believe you for a minute. I can see them if I put my eyes right up on the screen, but other than that they are almost indistinguishable. And even then I can't see them good.
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Click to collapse
I normally can't see them either, but if I look at some diagonal line between contrasting colors that is not smoothed by making some pixels along the line colored between the two colors (such as the edges of the numbers in the status bar clock), I can see a distinct staircase-shaped edge.
Furthermore, I suspect you can too: one foot is quite close, and if I bring the screen closer than about eight inches, I can no longer focus my eyes on it, so one foot is close to the optimal distance for seeing pixels, and you said yourself that you can see then from some position.
Max725 said:
I normally can't see them either, but if I look at some diagonal line between contrasting colors that is not smoothed by making some pixels along the line colored between the two colors (such as the edges of the numbers in the status bar clock), I can see a distinct staircase-shaped edge.
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Click to collapse
That's just poor anti-aliasing.
GrayTheWolf said:
That's just poor anti-aliasing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, but it does make the pixels distinctly visible, and shows that at 720p, pixels are easily visible, which is all that I was saying.