Open Source, Crowd Sourced Hardware. Possible? - Android Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting

I've been a Nexus phone user for a long time, and now I own a Nexus 7 tablet. My wife just got a Galaxy S2 (work provided) and I find what Samsung has done to the software of that phone appalling. Especially since Ice Cream Sandwich Android has become minimalistically beautiful. I love my stock "Google Experience". Everything is so simple and beautiful.
My question is this, would it be feasible to crowd source an open sourced hardware project to design and build an android phone? I've developed software for years but don't know anything about developing hardware outside of my arduino kit. Hardware vendors are failing by trying to focus on software (like Samsung and HTC) as the differentiator, seemingly forgetting that thy are hardware manufacturers and great hardware should be enough.
My thought is to design a fairly cheap (at or under $500), hopefully high quality phone that is compatible with stock Android. Think something like the Nexus 7 only at 4-4.3 inches and with a cell radio. If its compatible with stock Android then we wouldn't have to spend time like Samsung does making our software compatible with the newest Android release before making it available to the public.
Are there any hardware engineers out there who might be able to tell me what this would take? I'm sure it would take a lot of people and a lot of time, and might not be possible without billions in the bank, but I'd like to know if the necessary skills exist in the community and if we can pull them together.

I doubt it will be possible just because of the amount of funds necessary to begin such a project. OEM's can make their devices because they order components in mass quantities so they get wholesale pricing and I just don't see the demand for such a device being enough to crowd-source it.

I think that the phone hardware should be a mid-low quality one in order to get the funds needed to slowly start making them. And even with that, it's not an easy task, since you will be selling a mid-low quality device for the price of a high quality one. You would have to offer something more.
But it's an interesting idea.

I am an electrical engineer that specialized in digital design and computer software, and made some custom boards for a small company. So, I'm speaking from some experience, not just blowing smoke out my ***.
Is it possible to design a phone? Sure.
I would guess the processor would have to come from TI, and Qualcomm and NVIDIA have such bad support reputations.
We would need a team of engineers on par with the size of the CyanogenMod community. We need electrical engineers from digital, RF, analog, power... and probably other EE specializations. Then some mechanical and probably other engineers.
For under $500? No.
As previously noted, the manufacturers are buying LARGE quantities, probably with lots of legal agreements, to get better prices than we could asking for 1,000 (if we're lucky) at a time... IF we could get enough priority to get our hands on that many.
The printed circuit boards alone are going to be expensive, not counting the cost of adding the components to it/them. The board(s) in your phone are (complete guess here) 6 or more layers, divided into digital, analog, and RF sections, with internal vias (connections from one layer to another that do not pass clear through the whole stack of layers.) They've been simulated in expensive CAD software, prototyped and tested in a $nnn,000 test chamber, possibly sent back for a design tweak one ore more times, THEN sent to the FCC
+equivalents for their OK. In other words, $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.
Adding to the previous point, these are tiny, MANY pin, surface mount components, that cannot be soldered by hand. So, you've got to find a custom board assembly company, and pay to have the parts added.
Alternatively, it could be a little cheaper, but it would be the size of one or more of the Harry Potter books... in hardback.
Then get your hands on: batteries, charger, display, Gorilla glass, and a case to hold it all.
The only reason why we see phones at $500, or $200 with contract, is because the carriers are going to get a huge amount of money from you when you pay for service. I guessing here, but those prices are both subsidized by the carrier. That $500 price has already reduced from the manufacturer's price using money sucked from the customers under contract.

Haraldr Blaatand said:
I am an electrical engineer that specialized in digital design and computer software, and made some custom boards for a small company. So, I'm speaking from some experience, not just blowing smoke out my ***.
Is it possible to design a phone? Sure.
I would guess the processor would have to come from TI, and Qualcomm and NVIDIA have such bad support reputations.
We would need a team of engineers on par with the size of the CyanogenMod community. We need electrical engineers from digital, RF, analog, power... and probably other EE specializations. Then some mechanical and probably other engineers.
For under $500? No.
As previously noted, the manufacturers are buying LARGE quantities, probably with lots of legal agreements, to get better prices than we could asking for 1,000 (if we're lucky) at a time... IF we could get enough priority to get our hands on that many.
The printed circuit boards alone are going to be expensive, not counting the cost of adding the components to it/them. The board(s) in your phone are (complete guess here) 6 or more layers, divided into digital, analog, and RF sections, with internal vias (connections from one layer to another that do not pass clear through the whole stack of layers.) They've been simulated in expensive CAD software, prototyped and tested in a $nnn,000 test chamber, possibly sent back for a design tweak one ore more times, THEN sent to the FCC
+equivalents for their OK. In other words, $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.
Adding to the previous point, these are tiny, MANY pin, surface mount components, that cannot be soldered by hand. So, you've got to find a custom board assembly company, and pay to have the parts added.
Alternatively, it could be a little cheaper, but it would be the size of one or more of the Harry Potter books... in hardback.
Then get your hands on: batteries, charger, display, Gorilla glass, and a case to hold it all.
The only reason why we see phones at $500, or $200 with contract, is because the carriers are going to get a huge amount of money from you when you pay for service. I guessing here, but those prices are both subsidized by the carrier. That $500 price has already reduced from the manufacturer's price using money sucked from the customers under contract.
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That's a lot of great information. I have a few thoughts.
You mention the $500 price point being subsidized, but that's not necessarily true. I buy only unlocked devices without contract (not from Carriers) and my Nexus S cost $529 new.
What about just using a reference design from a manufacturer, essentially just a rebadge. You can see that Orange has done that with the Intel Medfield reference design.

rharter said:
That's a lot of great information. I have a few thoughts.
1. You mention the $500 price point being subsidized, but that's not necessarily true. I buy only unlocked devices without contract (not from Carriers) and my Nexus S cost $529 new.
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Then I'm not as smart as I think I am. It was a guess. I was wrong.
rharter said:
2. What about just using a reference design from a manufacturer, essentially just a rebadge. You can see that Orange has done that with the Intel Medfield reference design.
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This is a complete phone they are selling to carriers (to help get their Atom processors some attention). From this article about the Medfield reference design:
The more tempting possibility is one that I'm not sure Intel is feeling risky enough to explore, at least not in 2012. Selling its reference design through a carrier is one thing, what I really want to see is Intel selling the reference design, unlocked, to consumers directly.
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So, without more information, I don't see this as any different than most other phones. The phone is still a black box to be hacked.
I did a little googling, and didn't find anything in the way of actual design details. I did come across this article Fast, good, or cheap - or why you can't build a smartphone, which basically says the same thing... only with a more cynical attitude.

Related

Second Edition: Why do we care?

Great article here:
http://www.brighthand.com/article/Windows_Mobile_SE_Upgrades_No_Big_Deal?site=PPC
But their point of view is based on just a regular Second Edition features. I think that for us, PE users the main concerns are:
1. Crappy BT stack implementation in the current version of WM
Absence of Hands Free profile, rudimental serial port utilization
2. Phone software limitations
No calling card support, no T9, flimsy controls in general
I wonder, if there is any previews of WM Second Edition PE. i was trying to find it with no apparent luck.
The gist of this article though is that it takes time and money even to produce previews etc. Think about it:
1. Manufacturer (eg HTC) has to produce a build that works for each customer
2. Customer (eg O2) has to ensure it's good enough for supply to end-developers
That takes TIME, MONEY and EFFORT.
In the greater scheme of life, PDA's are not as big as mobile phones, and last I looked operators sold more phones than pdas.
I can't see it happening....
I am looking forward to landscape mode support.
Southern_Man said:
The gist of this article though is that it takes time and money even to produce previews etc. Think about it:
1. Manufacturer (eg HTC) has to produce a build that works for each customer
2. Customer (eg O2) has to ensure it's good enough for supply to end-developers
That takes TIME, MONEY and EFFORT.
In the greater scheme of life, PDA's are not as big as mobile phones, and last I looked operators sold more phones than pdas.
I can't see it happening....
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Click to collapse
It's IF they going to distribute this upgrade for free. I think, some people will pay for it reasonable price.
Just came across another thread on Club iMATE site. This is kind of official statement. Check it out:
http://www.clubimate.com/forums/printable.asp?m=2872&mpage=
It's true that some people would pay for an upgrade. However, some, including me, won't.
But if they don't release that update for free, they also won't sell any more units to me or my company. And I don't think they's like to lose customers, who would buy about 200 units.
Losing customers that aren't willing to pay for services rendered isn't necessarily a bad thing.
Johnny Cache said:
It's true that some people would pay for an upgrade. However, some, including me, won't.
But if they don't release that update for free, they also won't sell any more units to me or my company. And I don't think they's like to lose customers, who would buy about 200 units.
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Hmmm.... they sold 100k units without offering an upgrade. I don't think 200 really makes that much different.
We expect the software to be perfect, and to be ready within weeks, and to be free. We complain when it isn't, yet we aren;t willing to pay for it.
Apple started charging for software upgrades, as do most other companies.
Perhaps this is why Dell and HP are saying get stuffed to upgrades - it just isn't worth it.
Even Nokia Service Centre charges £20 to flash up a mobile with the standard new code.
What's even worse is people who have the power to make a knee-jerk decision for their company, without looking at the total cost vs. total return on investment.
Anyway, as much as I like free stuff, I realize developers have to eat too. I don't mind paying for things of value, especially if it is a modest fee as others have charged in the past.
I really don't care about new features. All we need is a working BT stack... and that's something we should get for free. That's what we payed for already.
I mainly want the ability to use my device in landscape for Excel spreadsheets and surfing with PIE. Every application out there that does landscape forces a hard reset on my MDA II and none will work.
This and the hopefully improved Widcomm BT stack of the MDA III have be debating whether or not to upgrade.

Double the ram?

I have 2 working titans, i was wondering if it would be possible to de-solder the memory chip off one and solder it into the other one where it has the empty space for ram, would this work? does anyone have a link to the high res photos of the board inside?
nevermind, upon taking apart one of mine and removing the shields i see no blank space for extra ram, i wonder what i was thinking of that i saw had an extra spot, it looks like theres no room under here
I will NEVER understand why a $600.00 retail phone that runs windows would not come with more RAM - it is the ONLY complaint I have with this device!! MAKES NO SENSE!!! How much MORE could it have costed to put a 128MB unit in there???? $10????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ARARARGHHHH!!!!!!!!!!
I think the issue is really just that the phone was late to market. The hardware was well within the standards for WM5 (for which it was apparently designed). By the time the phone actually made it to market, 128MB of memory was now the standard with the introduction of WM6. There are reasons other than cost to not just throw a ton of RAM into a device.
kashabrown said:
I will NEVER understand why a $600.00 retail phone that runs windows would not come with more RAM - it is the ONLY complaint I have with this device!! MAKES NO SENSE!!! How much MORE could it have costed to put a 128MB unit in there???? $10????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ARARARGHHHH!!!!!!!!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok, I am so sick of hearing this argument from consumers, who the majority of the time don't have a clue how marketing and the economy works. think about it...if you ran a multi-billion dollar company making these devices, would you throw all your cards on the table in one fell swoop? of course not!
these companies are not stupid...sure they could release a device tomorrow that had 2gigs of ram, an awesome video card, 800x600 res screen, 64gb built in storage, and still be the size of the xv8600 if not smaller...but that would kille the company and also violate market laws no doubt (like when microsoft released internet explorer for free back when netscape navigator cost $30 a month to use...
come on, these companies are in it for the long haul...if they released a deivce with those stats i just listed (and they could easily...think how small a 8gb transflash card is...you could have 128GB (notmb) of ram easily running on those things, but anyway, if they released that, guess what you, the consumer would want 6 months from now? A device that was twice as good, and had twice as much ram, and speed and space, etc...
Why would these compnies shoot themselves in the foot? They are making money hand over fist selling these devices that use technology available 5-10 years ago...heck, if i were a CEO of LG or HTC or Samsung or whoever, I would be loving this.
It just makes sense, and the average consumer makes a post like that with no thought as to what would happen to the economy or company. Just because it can be done and easily done and you want it, doesnt mean the company is going to say "sure, let's skip 5 years of profits, and just give them what we could sell in 2012, now in 2008" - heck no they arent going to do that obviously.
THE BOTTOM LINE: We, the consumers, have a short memory, are very impatient, and want the next best thing no matter how good the current thing we have is. If they put 256mb in the Titan, your last post would have been...."WHY CANT THEY PUT IN 512MB?!?!?!!?" you see? So, these coampnies are making tons of money by dragging out the release of new technology process...I mean think about it...we have dual core 2.4ghz processors in the year 2001. It is SEVEN years later, and we are still selling dual core 2.4ghz computers for $1,500 and up. Sure, you can get a better deal by building your own but the average consumer doesnt know how to do that, so that lack of technical expertise, combined with slow technology drift, keeps these companies in the high profit margins. I mean by now, if we were all 100% tech-savvy we would be demanding (as a whole) 12-core computers, with 20ghz ciphs each core...it's just not gonna happen when these big conglomerates control the flow of technology.
One company kind of broke free of this, and did work on their own. Look up the RED 4K Camera. current professional cameras for filming are $2,000 and up and film 720x480pixels, well HD cameras ar emore expensive, $4000 and up for pro quality and they are 1920x1080 pixels, well the RED 4K Camera came out over 2 years ago and it can film in 3 to 4 times HD res @ 4000pixels. Of course since they are th eonly ones doing it they can charge $20,000 per camera when in reality the parts to make it cost about $500...but do you know how to make a video camera? do you know how to build a PDA? Do you know how to manufacture 64GB ram chips to put in your PDA? Are you a programmer and cna you make the firmware for your custom device? and the list goes on and on....this is why we PAY $600 for a device that costs them $50 to make. Get it?
::: Connor
crobs808 said:
Ok, I am so sick of hearing this argument from consumers, who the majority of the time don't have a clue how marketing and the economy works. think about it...if you ran a multi-billion dollar company making these devices, would you throw all your cards on the table in one fell swoop? of course not!
these companies are not stupid...sure they could release a device tomorrow that had 2gigs of ram, an awesome video card, 800x600 res screen, 64gb built in storage, and still be the size of the xv8600 if not smaller...but that would kille the company and also violate market laws no doubt (like when microsoft released internet explorer for free back when netscape navigator cost $30 a month to use...
come on, these companies are in it for the long haul...if they released a deivce with those stats i just listed (and they could easily...think how small a 8gb transflash card is...you could have 128GB (notmb) of ram easily running on those things, but anyway, if they released that, guess what you, the consumer would want 6 months from now? A device that was twice as good, and had twice as much ram, and speed and space, etc...
Why would these compnies shoot themselves in the foot? They are making money hand over fist selling these devices that use technology available 5-10 years ago...heck, if i were a CEO of LG or HTC or Samsung or whoever, I would be loving this.
It just makes sense, and the average consumer makes a post like that with no thought as to what would happen to the economy or company. Just because it can be done and easily done and you want it, doesnt mean the company is going to say "sure, let's skip 5 years of profits, and just give them what we could sell in 2012, now in 2008" - heck no they arent going to do that obviously.
THE BOTTOM LINE: We, the consumers, have a short memory, are very impatient, and want the next best thing no matter how good the current thing we have is. If they put 256mb in the Titan, your last post would have been...."WHY CANT THEY PUT IN 512MB?!?!?!!?" you see? So, these coampnies are making tons of money by dragging out the release of new technology process...I mean think about it...we have dual core 2.4ghz processors in the year 2001. It is SEVEN years later, and we are still selling dual core 2.4ghz computers for $1,500 and up. Sure, you can get a better deal by building your own but the average consumer doesnt know how to do that, so that lack of technical expertise, combined with slow technology drift, keeps these companies in the high profit margins. I mean by now, if we were all 100% tech-savvy we would be demanding (as a whole) 12-core computers, with 20ghz ciphs each core...it's just not gonna happen when these big conglomerates control the flow of technology.
One company kind of broke free of this, and did work on their own. Look up the RED 4K Camera. current professional cameras for filming are $2,000 and up and film 720x480pixels, well HD cameras ar emore expensive, $4000 and up for pro quality and they are 1920x1080 pixels, well the RED 4K Camera came out over 2 years ago and it can film in 3 to 4 times HD res @ 4000pixels. Of course since they are th eonly ones doing it they can charge $20,000 per camera when in reality the parts to make it cost about $500...but do you know how to make a video camera? do you know how to build a PDA? Do you know how to manufacture 64GB ram chips to put in your PDA? Are you a programmer and cna you make the firmware for your custom device? and the list goes on and on....this is why we PAY $600 for a device that costs them $50 to make. Get it?
::: Connor
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Click to collapse
I understand your arguments and mostly they are correct. But $30 bucks a month for Netscape Navigator? I can't remember that. I was surfing the net back in '94 on Netscape and I don't remember paying anything for it (apart from dialup charges - and that was even before IE existed) ****, does that show how old I am???
crobs808 said:
Ok, I am so sick of hearing this argument from consumers, who the majority of the time don't have a clue how marketing and the economy works. think about it...if you ran a multi-billion dollar company making these devices, would you throw all your cards on the table in one fell swoop? of course not!
::: Connor
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Click to collapse
They did it with the Touch.....they must be able to do it with the mogul even if they revamp it a bit. we put a man on the moon recently so why not more ram in a phone.
maccaberry said:
I understand your arguments and mostly they are correct. But $30 bucks a month for Netscape Navigator? I can't remember that. I was surfing the net back in '94 on Netscape and I don't remember paying anything for it (apart from dialup charges - and that was even before IE existed) ****, does that show how old I am???
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well you cant be that old if you dont remember netscape sueing microsoft for anti-trust lawsuits for releasing free software into a market that undercut their $10-$30 netscape versions depending on which one you bought...(remember, netscape gold and all that lol, back in the early 90s (this is pre 1994) - that's just when yahoo finally came around. i mean i am only 26 and i remember having to use Mosaic web browser...the browser that eventually became Netscape Navigator...LINK #1 - Mosaic and this LINK #2 - Netscape - it talks all about the antitrust lawsuits, etc..
anyway, back on topic...double the ram didnt happen because of one word..."MONEY!" - you can make WAY more money as a company seeing how far and long you can push the customer.
-connor
Tregrad said:
They did it with the Touch.....they must be able to do it with the mogul even if they revamp it a bit. we put a man on the moon recently so why not more ram in a phone.
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you didnt understand his post, its not about cost or technology, its about marketing
the phone was designed fro WM5, so 64mb ram was more than enough, why should they put 128mb in the phone when in a year they can release a new phone with 128mb and everyone will buy that?
does it suck? sure, but its life, better get used to it
defaultdotxbe said:
you didnt understand his post, its not about cost or technology, its about marketing
the phone was designed fro WM5, so 64mb ram was more than enough, why should they put 128mb in the phone when in a year they can release a new phone with 128mb and everyone will buy that?
does it suck? sure, but its life, better get used to it
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Click to collapse
This is the same idea why we don't have cars with fuel injectors that can run 70 miles to the gallon using standard gas. As long as demand is high enough on goods that are out there (i.e. old phones, old cars, and everything else) and people are willing to keep buying them with outmoded technology, there is no reason to sell the next great thing UNTIL someone else threatens to sell the same thing. Is there really any competition for HTC in the US markets? No. LG sux and runs an OS that looks like my mother-in-laws Razr. Samsung is ok, but doesn't have the utility and look of the vogue or titan.
serfboreds said:
This is the same idea why we don't have cars with fuel injectors that can run 70 miles to the gallon using standard gas. As long as demand is high enough on goods that are out there (i.e. old phones, old cars, and everything else) and people are willing to keep buying them with outmoded technology, there is no reason to sell the next great thing UNTIL someone else threatens to sell the same thing. Is there really any competition for HTC in the US markets? No. LG sux and runs an OS that looks like my mother-in-laws Razr. Samsung is ok, but doesn't have the utility and look of the vogue or titan.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dude this is so true. They already have several engines that can get 50-100 mpg no problems. But why wold they bother when they can sell us hybrids which cost heaps more and don't get nearly as good mileage.
The latest is a 6 stroke engine that uses a standard four stroke motor and add two extra strokes per cycle using water! as the 'fuel'. The motor doesn't 'make' more power for nothing. This is not some fake 'perpetual motion machine' . The extra efficiency is achieved purely by getting more heat out of the same amount of fuel instead of throwing the heat out the tail pipe.
See this link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six_stroke_engine
Its a bit off topic but its a true example of the same thing. they will only do it when the market forces them to do it. $10 a gallon gasoline might be the push. (Look at Europe - they pay about they and their cars average about 40-45 mpg).
maccaberry said:
(Look at Europe - they pay about they and their cars average about 40-45 mpg).
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True, but their cars only hold two and you drive around with their knees in their chests, so you better go on a diet, destroy your way of life and get rid of that SUV. I for one am going to be pulled out of my F-350 dead before i give it up.
thats why i make my own diesel fuel NOW if I could just figure out how to make my own phone LOL.
What yall are saying is true tho. we all know that the technology WE see, is the bottom of the barrel of their ideas. no one here would shoot their whole wad at once to appease the clammering consumer. a smart business man would make as much as they can by letting a bit out at a time while developing more and more "stuff" we desire and are willing to give up our hard earned money for.
Its called "capitalism" I know that a dirty word for the "dirt worshiping squirrel hugger" out there but, thats the way it is so get in the boat or tread water for as long as you can.
i dont get ppl with SUVs....i mean i live in Texas and i dont have an SUV or a truck...just a 4door sedan for me and my family. that's all i need, even with some dirt/rock roads when i go out into the country...a truck would actually be more bouncy and annoying to ride in. ive never liked SUVs for any purpose...but soccer moms for some reason think they need the Xterra or their husbands need Hummers to drive one or two kids to and from soccer practice...i dont get it. SUVs are pointless unless you work in construction.
-connor
Tregrad said:
They did it with the Touch.....they must be able to do it with the mogul even if they revamp it a bit. we put a man on the moon recently so why not more ram in a phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe that was with the help of those $4000 HD digital video cameras
I am with you, I will be buried in my F350 Diesel.
Tregrad said:
True, but their cars only hold two and you drive around with their knees in their chests, so you better go on a diet, destroy your way of life and get rid of that SUV. I for one am going to be pulled out of my F-350 dead before i give it up.
thats why i make my own diesel fuel NOW if I could just figure out how to make my own phone LOL.
What yall are saying is true tho. we all know that the technology WE see, is the bottom of the barrel of their ideas. no one here would shoot their whole wad at once to appease the clammering consumer. a smart business man would make as much as they can by letting a bit out at a time while developing more and more "stuff" we desire and are willing to give up our hard earned money for.
Its called "capitalism" I know that a dirty word for the "dirt worshiping squirrel hugger" out there but, thats the way it is so get in the boat or tread water for as long as you can.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So what are the chances of the Ram chip from a touch/tilt being soldered into the mogul assuming there is any similarities
they did something similar with the old palms to double the ram can be found here
http://pages.interlog.com/~tcharron/Palm8M/III8M.html
im fairly new to the pocket pc phones but what are the chances of using the extra rom space as a page file?
maccaberry said:
Dude this is so true. They already have several engines that can get 50-100 mpg no problems. But why wold they bother when they can sell us hybrids which cost heaps more and don't get nearly as good mileage.
The latest is a 6 stroke engine that uses a standard four stroke motor and add two extra strokes per cycle using water! as the 'fuel'. The motor doesn't 'make' more power for nothing. This is not some fake 'perpetual motion machine' . The extra efficiency is achieved purely by getting more heat out of the same amount of fuel instead of throwing the heat out the tail pipe.
See this link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six_stroke_engine
Its a bit off topic but its a true example of the same thing. they will only do it when the market forces them to do it. $10 a gallon gasoline might be the push. (Look at Europe - they pay about they and their cars average about 40-45 mpg).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is better:
"Although you can definitely pre-order an Aptera if you're okay with space-aged design, Volkswagen is hoping to provide another option for those looking for ridiculous MPG and a little bit of normalcy in construction. Okay, so maybe the 1-Liter isn't exactly standard fare -- with its plastic / magnesium shell and all-glass roof -- but at least it packs four whole wheels and an iconic VW badge, right? According to Motor Authority, the automaker will be producing said vehicle and pushing it to market as early as 2010, and while the minuscule engine will only take you to 75MPH, it will still seat two people -- one in front of the other, though -- and get around 235MPG. No word on a price or any of that good stuff, but we're hearing that they'll only be produced in "limited numbers" whenever they're launched." (from engadget)
As for European cars..europeans don't need to travel as much because the size of the countries in europe are rather small in size comparison to the USA..realistically speaking is over 85mph even really necessary at all?
As for Titan..capitalism is one thing..we aren't asking for 1gb ram even though we would like it...but a decent amount to ensure you don't feel lag would make sense...
I love Europe... but the euro is costing more than the $... not a smart time to go there... YAY U.S. economy!!!!
anyway... I thought this was a WM forum... for a moment I felt I was in a Popular Mechanics forum... my 2 cents
gTen said:
As for Titan..capitalism is one thing..we aren't asking for 1gb ram even though we would like it...but a decent amount to ensure you don't feel lag would make sense...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
remember the titan was designed for WM5, and with WM5 128mb might as well be 1gb, lol
remember the titan was designed for WM5, and with WM5 128mb might as well be 1gb, lol
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Titan was originally designed for WM5 yes, which is why the decision for 64 MB of ram was made. Then, however, they decided to throw WM6 on it and didn't even bother to give a damn that 64 MB of ram for WM6 is like running Windows XP with 256 MB of ram...it works, but just barely. Instead, as another poster pointed out, they figured that it would work to their advantage as people would enjoy WM6, but be disgruntled (as we all are) with such limited resources. This would lead us to buy yet another phone later on down the line with 128 MB of ram and WM6 (or now WM6.1).

What if Android charged for new operating systems

THIS IS JUST MY OPINION:
I don't know why, but it seems to me that people seem to think that they are entitled to get the newest operating systems.
I am not talking about incremental items like 2.3.3 to 2.3.4, 3.1 to 3.2 but major upgrades... Froyo to Gingerbread, Gingerbread to Honeycomb, etc.
If I want to upgrade Windows XP to Windows 7, it will cost me money, and my hardware might not be able to run it. If a Mac user wants to upgrade to Snowleopard, it cost them, too.
I think if we had to pay $49 for a new operating system, we wouldn't be so hard HTC or other manufactures that are slow to release an operating system.
They won't charge because they can't adhere to any established schedule.
LG Optimus 3D (T-Mobile/P920)
Theoretically that could work and provide an incentive to the vendors. They could lower their initial price to buy a device (since the support cost are baked in), but software is still hard and i think customer acceptance of those upgrade fees would be the problem. As long as the industry leader (Apple) gives free OS updates it would be a hard sell to charge for Android updates. The bigger problem for most handset and tablet makers is that they are in a constant churn cycle trying to bring the next shiny new paperweight to market ahead of the competition. Apple has a fanatical user base and is somewhat insulated from competition. If you look at their hardware against say Samsung, Apple is a generation behind in radio and processor technology.
And each of these new churns of the newest hardware causes a hardware maker to have to redo all the device specific software (there's a lot of it) to run Android.
sbrownla said:
They won't charge because they can't adhere to any established schedule.
LG Optimus 3D (T-Mobile/P920)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Who says they have to have a schedule? MS doesn't have a schedule. Also, didn't MS charge for one of the Windows Mobile updates? Pretty sure I'm remembering that correctly.
Well and the reason a lot of us even use Android is that it's perceived (rightly or wrongly) as being more open and inclusive. Part of that openness has been the eventual Open Source release of each version of the operating system.
I'd pay extra for hardware that ran a 100% Open Source version of Android though, with some freeer alternative to Market, etc.
TidBit said:
THIS IS JUST MY OPINION:
I don't know why, but it seems to me that people seem entitled to get the newest operating systems.
I am not talking about incremental items like 2.3.3 to 2.3.4, 3.1 to 3.2 but major upgrades... Froyo to Gingerbread, Gingerbread to Honeycomb, etc.
If I want to upgrade Windows XP to Windows 7, it will cost me money, and my hardware might not be able to run it. If a Mac user wants to upgrade to Snowleopard, it cost them, too.
I think if we had to pay $49 for a new operating system, we wouldn't be so hard HTC or other manufactures that are slow to release an operating system.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In the Windows world things are a bit different. You pay Microsoft only for the OS. The biggest issue to get a new Windows version running on an old pc is drivers. If we translate the Windows world to Android we would pay Google for the OS (and upgrades) and HTC (for example) for the hardware (and drivers). In this world, when a new Android version is released, I can asure you that users will start to chase HTC to write new drivers compatible with the new Android version. And they want it for free.
It would be better to standarize all internal components and connections in devices. And android should contain some generic drivers to at least boot the device and use basic functions (screen, sd card, touch).
I wouldn't mind paying something extra for OS upgrades, but I don't like the idea of paying HTC for an OS upgrade while most of the work was done by Google.
Btw, by buying an HTC Android device, you also donate some bucks to the nice guys @ Microsoft.
Sent from my HTC Flyer P510e using xda premium
As a consumer, unless you enter a contract with a vendor, you are entitled to nothing. However the market forces suppliers to behave in a certain fashion in order to maintain a place in the market. How well a company balances service, vs. cost vs. profit will in the long run determine how well they do in comparison to their competitors. Therefore consumers are in effect entitled to expect some level of support from vendors when they purchase a product.
The problem is , that level of support is undefined, so a vendor has to be careful how they set expectations and consumers have to be realistic in their expectations. It's a hard balance to achieve.
I would love to see the whole concept of mobile devices move to a more PC oriented ecosystem.
Think about it.. Being able to pick and choose which hardware and which OS, and only having to deal with the carrier for service (ala cable providers) would certainly change the way things work. In my opinion for the better.
No more carrier locked phones, no more manufacturer locked OS's. I could go pick up my HTC Phone1 or Samsung Phone9, load up my Android XP and punch in my Verizon credentials and im off.
Crazy concept, i like it. Downsides i could see being increased price in phones. But on the same token, just the fact they are carrier free would drive down the price due to competition.
Would drive down cellular prices too since the only thing they would be competing with would be service area, price and data caps. Similiar to now, but without the contracts tying you in to a phone for 2 years.
Also, side-rant. 2 years for a mobile contract is absurd right now. Mobile tech is exploding, and with major hw improvements within a years time are rolling out, its just not fair.
My buddy just upgraded from his HTC Hero last month. I couldnt imagine still using that relic after having upgraded to an Epic, then an iphone4. Going back to the Hero would be torture.
TidBit said:
THIS IS JUST MY OPINION:
I don't know why, but it seems to me that people seem to think that they are entitled to get the newest operating systems.
I am not talking about incremental items like 2.3.3 to 2.3.4, 3.1 to 3.2 but major upgrades... Froyo to Gingerbread, Gingerbread to Honeycomb, etc.
If I want to upgrade Windows XP to Windows 7, it will cost me money, and my hardware might not be able to run it. If a Mac user wants to upgrade to Snowleopard, it cost them, too.
I think if we had to pay $49 for a new operating system, we wouldn't be so hard HTC or other manufactures that are slow to release an operating system.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's funny that you mention this because I remember Apple charging like $5 to upgrade older ipod touches to the newer OS and people were throwing a fit. They eventually gave the software upgrade away for free. I think everyone feels entitled to the honeycomb upgrade since HTC promised that it was going to be available soon. Nobody wants to buy a new tablet every year. Just look at Apple as an example. They could have easily only made IOS 5 only available for the Ipad 2 and alienated the millions of Ipad 1 owners out there. Instead, they offered the upgrade for both devices so people with the older model can still enjoy some of the new features. I think what everyone here is afraid of is that HTC is going to announce a HTC Flyer 2 in a couple months with a dual core processor and honeycomb/ice cream sandwich.
thetruth1983 said:
It's funny that you mention this because I remember Apple charging like $5 to upgrade older ipod touches to the newer OS and people were throwing a fit. They eventually gave the software upgrade away for free. I think everyone feels entitled to the honeycomb upgrade since HTC promised that it was going to be available soon. Nobody wants to buy a new tablet every year. Just look at Apple as an example. They could have easily only made IOS 5 only available for the Ipad 2 and alienated the millions of Ipad 1 owners out there. Instead, they offered the upgrade for both devices so people with the older model can still enjoy some of the new features. I think what everyone here is afraid of is that HTC is going to announce a HTC Flyer 2 in a couple months with a dual core processor and honeycomb/ice cream sandwich.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I guess you are right. I did buy my HTC Flyer when the price dropped to $299 and I really love it. It is much better than my old Viewsonic G Tablet. I guess if I paid the $499, I would feel a little different.
Google tried the complete unlocked , open source concept essentially with their first Nexus phone, unfortunately it was a flop. The percentage of people that want to tinker with a phone (or tablet) vs. those that just want it to work is really small, otherwise, Apple wouldn't be so successful. I know most if us feel differently because we are passionate about the tech. and customizing.
And one more note. I worked for General Electric doing commercial software development for many years.I understand the business and legal aspect. Consumers are not "entitled" to anything, but..
I also understand that consumers are entitled to feel they are being treated fairly or you will be out of business (unless you have a monopoly , which unfortunately the cell industry behaves like in a lot of instances).
I do have a problem with false or deceptive advertising which this industry engages in fairly routinely.For example HTC announcing that the Flyer would get the honeycomb update and not delivering is deceptive. Verizon's TV ads about speed of network "rule the airways" while not talking about how they throttle your speeds is deceptive. It's not illegal, but it is deceptive and I do think consumers are entitled to the truth at some point.
DigitalMD said:
As a consumer, unless you enter a contract with a vendor, you are entitled to nothing. However the market forces suppliers to behave in a certain fashion in order to maintain a place in the market. How well a company balances service, vs. cost vs. profit will in the long run determine how well they do in comparison to their competitors. Therefore consumers are in effect entitled to expect some level of support from vendors when they purchase a product.
The problem is , that level of support is undefined, so a vendor has to be careful how they set expectations and consumers have to be realistic in their expectations. It's a hard balance to achieve.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think there's an implied agreement that any major defects will be fixed unless you state otherwise. Take for example the HTC logging security issue.
---------- Post added at 03:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:35 PM ----------
DigitalMD said:
Google tried the complete unlocked , open source concept essentially with their first Nexus phone, unfortunately it was a flop. The percentage of people that want to tinker with a phone (or tablet) vs. those that just want it to work is really small, otherwise, Apple wouldn't be so successful. I know most if us feel differently because we are passionate about the tech. and customizing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
FWIW, consumers *do* care about crapware. Friends know I'm an Android developer and the first thing they always ask, without a doubt, is how to remove ESPN or Avatar or other crap from their phones. Especially when people move over from the iPhone world, they are inundated by crapware.
I think the biggest selling point of the Nexus phones SHOULD be that they are mostly crapware-free, although I consider Twitter and Facebook superfluous.
ICS will let you disable system apps, which is going to be a huge bonus for users as long as the carriers don't find a way of blocking that feature.
If you believe that whole "implied agreement" thing, go check out what Sprint customers are dealing with now that Sprint yanked their unlimited data plan out from under them.
Eliminating as you call it ,Crapwear is not going to happen in Android period. You seem to have forgotten, Google is a advertising company. That's where they make the overwhelming majority of their income, about $12.5 billion last quarter. Android is a platform for leveraging that market.
The Nexus One phones were actually targeted toward developers and as such were pretty clean and open. The new Nexus Galaxy is a consumer phone.
Google doesn't make a dime from ESPN and Avatar pre-installs. The money they make on Admob is mostly from apps that users opt to download. Maps, which has some sponsored results, isn't crapware by most people's standards.
If Google had no interest in helping people out with clean phones, they wouldn't have put the ICS feature in to disable system apps.
As for implied agreement, see that those customers are angry. It's not like you're going to sue Sprint (although class actions do happen), but if you advertise one thing and do another, people get mad.
well ...
barry99705 said:
Who says they have to have a schedule? MS doesn't have a schedule. Also, didn't MS charge for one of the Windows Mobile updates? Pretty sure I'm remembering that correctly.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
MS most certainly does have a schedule for updating all of their devices to Mango, by the way. And, they are updating every single one built by every single manufacturer. The schedule is available online. http://www.microsoft.com/windowsphone/en-us/features/update-schedules.aspx MS didn't charge end users for updates and never has, but the expectation is that all phones built around the same time period will have similar capabilities with regard to updating. With Android it's, "build first, slap the OS on later and see what works." In other words, it's not an OS-based market, it's a device-based market (I can't stand that word "ecosystem" unless it's used to describe biological phenomena, sorry).
What it boils down to is consumer expectation, as brought up by other commenters.
If Google were to charge for updates, they'd have a greater obligation to fulfill the promises made: update schedules, device lifespan, OS compatibility, etc. That would put more pressure on manufacturers to adhere to Google's whims, instead of allowing manufacturers to do whatever they want in terms of price/OS--that was the freedom and flexibility that the Open Handset Alliance was meant to offer manufacturers.
Android is too unwieldy and manufacturers (and Google) are making more money just throwing things out there and hoping that they stick than they would if they solidify anything related to the software on devices--which is what they would have to do if they began to charge for the OS.
They also run the risk of exposure to even more complicated licensing issues. You thought the Oracle debacle is bad, if Google were charging end users directly it would have been far worse for them because of the money they would have made on IP that came from sources that: (1) didn't put it out there to be 'profitable' to any one particular entity, (2) didn't put it out there in the first place (allegedly), etc.
Read this for a good perspective of where Google and the Android update schedules actually sit at the moment. Google tired to get a group of hardware makers to agree to timely updates and virtually nothing came from it. Google has no control.
http://www.tested.com/news/what-googles-android-update-deal-means-for-fragmentation/2310/
Sad but true.
I wish there were a Nexus with a physical keyboard.
I remain optimistic for the Flyer. I don't expect much from HTC, but I believe one of our independent developers will pick the ICS ball up and run with it.
HTC has shown a previous pattern of leaving their customers behind. I hope it is changing, but I don't count on it.

Sony Mobile president: "...not afraid of lawsuits..."

'No (need for) Windows 8 because....'
"We are not afraid of lawsuits, because we have an extensive portfolio of intellectual property rights”
Sony Mobile’s President and CEO Kunimasa Suzuki
http://www.xperiablog.net/2012/09/12/sony-mobiles-new-ceo-says-no-to-windows-phone-8/
This is exactly what I expected of Sony. You may have noticed when Sony bought out Ericsson's share, part of the deal which was commonly overlooked, was that Sony gets unrestricted license to Ericsson's patent portfolio. Combine Ericsson's founding foot in the origins of telephony combined with Sony's extensive catelogue, and you have a patent portfolio that would make even Apple pee themselves. If only Sony could share them (though it would be extremely disproportionately unfavourable to them).
I read that in some industries, something called 'patent pooling' can be agreed. So companies as you might expect, share specific patents and prohibit lawsuits related to those patents. I read though that in the mobile industry, it's very unlikely though.
Any thoughts?
Oh.
I was actually wondering what are the major patents that Sony (Ericsson) holds?
You would have to think that along with Motorola for example, Ericsson probably own many of the parents that mobile telecommunications are founded on. These are companies that have been in telecoms a neck of a lot longer than apple and build much of the infrastructure.
I doubt apple can hold claim to any of the core technology (though correct me if I am wrong), I would imagine much of their "innovative" tech is based around user experience. However how much did they patent during the newton project I wonder. Sony however have a very long history in portable gadgets and particularly audio so it could get interesting if there were to be a suit I guess.
Personally I believe Samsung did copy apple but only because much of that 'copied' was obvious and the patents shouldn't have been granted in the first place (how can you patent a rectangle with rounded corners when potable gadgets have been that shape from forever). Strange how other countries are throwing apple's allegations out of court yet in the us they are upheld - I'm not implying bias btw, just that the patents system is badly broken. The funny thing is that many of the key components in apple devices are made by Samsung in the first place, I know what would be thinking if iwas was Samsung.
Sent from my ST25i using xda app-developers app
---------- Post added at 02:35 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:30 AM ----------
batman_112 said:
I was actually wondering what are the major patents that Sony (Ericsson) holds?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A quick google found this
http://www.ericsson.com/thecompany/company_facts/patents
The problem Is how many are standards essential or legitimately licensed. Wouldn't fancy the job of going through them to find out!
Sent from my ST25i using xda app-developers app
tarbyonline said:
You would have to think that along with Motorola for example, Ericsson probably own many of the parents that mobile telecommunications are founded on. These are companies that have been in telecoms a neck of a lot longer than apple and build much of the infrastructure.
I doubt apple can hold claim to any of the core technology (though correct me if I am wrong), I would imagine much of their "innovative" tech is based around user experience. However how much did they patent during the newton project I wonder. Sony however have a very long history in portable gadgets and particularly audio so it could get interesting if there were to be a suit I guess.
Personally I believe Samsung did copy apple but only because much of that 'copied' was obvious and the patents shouldn't have been granted in the first place (how can you patent a rectangle with rounded corners when potable gadgets have been that shape from forever). Strange how other countries are throwing apple's allegations out of court yet in the us they are upheld - I'm not implying bias btw, just that the patents system is badly broken. The funny thing is that many of the key components in apple devices are made by Samsung in the first place, I know what would be thinking if iwas was Samsung.
Sent from my ST25i using xda app-developers app
---------- Post added at 02:35 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:30 AM ----------
A quick google found this
http://www.ericsson.com/thecompany/company_facts/patents
The problem Is how many are standards essential or legitimately licensed. Wouldn't fancy the job of going through them to find out!
Sent from my ST25i using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks! You got your first thanks from me! :good:
Wohoo!
Sent from my Nexus 7 using xda app-developers app
Sony will never ever ever be sued for the same reasons Apple sued Samsung, neither will HTC, Motorola, and even LG. Their hardware is distinctive from the iPhone and they follow Google's hardware design guideline, unlike Samsung, who tries so hard to imitate the iPhone. First with the big fat giant home button, then S-this S-that. And they wonder why Apple goes after them.
apple cant even dare touch sony...
I doubt they've ever even considered it.
He also acknowledged in his statement that the company has consistently lost market share over the years. That's their greatest challenge....competing with the likes of Apple and Samsung. Forget Apple because Samsung is who they''ll really be up against. They need to first of all improve significantly on software and end this releasing phones with dated software business. It cripples the phones. Secondly they need to respect the idea of the flagship device and never again repeat the crap of a new flagship every three months or so. A joke!
Repeating any of these mistakes will just ensure that this market share that's already in decline, will see its devaluation accelerate. They are already too close for comfort to the point of no return.
Put all talk about patents to one side.
Sent from my LT26i using xda app-developers app
lokenok said:
apple cant even dare touch sony...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Of course they can.
This is not how the patent litigation game is played.
It is a gamble. An attempt to cripple the oponent (just for now or permanently) and to cause as much bleeding and pain as possible. Means to kill outright (if they are lucky) or in worst case to get a better position in later negotiations.
For example, they are not afraid of Motorola which has tons and tons of various patents. They were not afraid of Nokia. They lost, but the gamble was worth trying.
Sony is safe for now only because they have such a tiny market share.
There are other reasons why Sony is currently not interested in WP platform. It would drain their resources, so Android phones would get even bigger delays. And currently there are no money in WP world, as there is a dying and desperate elephant ready for literally anything.
draugaz said:
Of course they can.
This is not how the patent litigation game is played.
It is a gamble. An attempt to cripple the oponent (just for now or permanently) and to cause as much bleeding and pain as possible. Means to kill outright (if they are lucky) or in worst case to get a better position in later negotiations.
For example, they are not afraid of Motorola which has tons and tons of various patents. They were not afraid of Nokia. They lost, but the gamble was worth trying.
Sony is safe for now only because they have such a tiny market share.
There are other reasons why Sony is currently not interested in WP platform. It would drain their resources, so Android phones would get even bigger delays. And currently there are no money in WP world, as there is a dying and desperate elephant ready for literally anything.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Considering Apple has released documents showing how they copied Sony, hell the phone even has Sony printed on it, they dont have a leg to stand on. Sure they could sue but they don't have much of a case vs Sony.
lokenok said:
apple cant even dare touch sony...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They dont need to. They can just sit and wait for Sony to collapse. After all they have so many times more money than Sony can ever have.
draugaz said:
Of course they can.
This is not how the patent litigation game is played.
It is a gamble. An attempt to cripple the oponent (just for now or permanently) and to cause as much bleeding and pain as possible. Means to kill outright (if they are lucky) or in worst case to get a better position in later negotiations.
For example, they are not afraid of Motorola which has tons and tons of various patents. They were not afraid of Nokia. They lost, but the gamble was worth trying.
Sony is safe for now only because they have such a tiny market share.
There are other reasons why Sony is currently not interested in WP platform. It would drain their resources, so Android phones would get even bigger delays. And currently there are no money in WP world, as there is a dying and desperate elephant ready for literally anything.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok mister know all.
Sony would bangbus Apple.
Its not like what you see on media. Everything runs in the background. Even Samsung and Apple ****.
Drain resources?
Wp just sucks and has no customers thats the point. = No money.
I say it again, Sony would bangbuss Apple.
Verstuurd van mijn Xperia S met Tapatalk
mrsatan said:
Considering Apple has released documents showing how they copied Sony, hell the phone even has Sony printed on it, they dont have a leg to stand on. Sure they could sue but they don't have much of a case vs Sony.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It is not like that matters much, there are 3242345 different ways to spin it in their favour. In that particular case Apple was just so incredibly lucky to get such a *censored* jury. Or maybe it is a home turf advantage, I don't know, but they equally did not had a leg to stand on against Samsung.
Such design or feature "inspiration" games are perfectly normal industry practice. Before "copying" Sony they did copy Braun: http://cheezburger.com/6563205376. And the new iPod nano is a "stolen" Samsung P2 from 2007: http://www.randomprocess.ca/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/p2.jpg
In a sane world it is not a problem at all, everyone does it, it is called "getting inspired and improving on" or simply "following the industry trends". Unless you get a chance to persuade a bunch of laypeople that this is something wrong.
For example, look at the car or fashion industry. All cars follow certain fashion trends and get similar design elements. It is perfectly normal and nobody sues mercedes just because they adopted edged design pioneered by bmw. Or flat door panels without moldings with sharp bend going through door handles. Or LED DRL eyebrows from Audi which possibly in turn copied it from someone else.
Anyway, they don't necessary need to even touch the design patents, they have a ton of insanely broad technical patents.
louis.b said:
They dont need to. They can just sit and wait for Sony to collapse. After all they have so many times more money than Sony can ever have.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They're not that dim witted to simply watch Sony die. Their revenue each year, with the net profit alongside well surpasses what they need to purchase Sony. And still be left with plenty of finances. They would most likely just purchase Sony.
Compare revenues this year, there's an $8 Billion deficit in favour of Apple. That's not including the Iphone 5 sales which will more than likely send said revenue soaring this year. Sony have released many new products this year, doesn't bode well right?
zodiac100 said:
Secondly they need to respect the idea of the flagship device and never again repeat the crap of a new flagship every three months or so. A joke!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Which is pretty much what Nokia seemed to do (a long with putting all their eggs in the Symbian basket) and look what happened to them.
At the end of the day it all comes down to marketing. Like the new iPhone. Is not the moist technologically advanced handset out there but you can bet apple will shout about its merits louder than Sony will about their range. At the end of the day, prior to the iPod how many non-IT people had even heard of apple -the iPod itself is an example of clever marketing. As an MP3 player the original iPod wasn't fantastic -the sound quality was patchy, you had no custom equaliser, etc, etc. But people avoided more established audio brands including Sony in favor of the iPod as apple got the timing right and built a product many people found desirable. Its like jeans. What's the difference at the end of the day between 2 pairs of denim jeans made in the same factory. Probably not a lot. But put a brand name on one pair and you can bet it will sell a lot quicker due to the marketing undertaken by that brand.
If Sony want to make a major impact on the phone market then IMHO they need to do 3 things
1. Design desirable handsets with features people want and can't get from competitors such as apple like SD expansion, and equal or better everyone Elses build quality. Aluminium will always feel better quality than thin plastic yet apple make huge margins even though their production is outsourced.
2. Invest in marketing with a view to the payback coming in the long term (IMHO they missed a trick with the Xperia 2012 devices by not marketing the sound quality -many people use the MP3 function on their phones whilst commuting for example so why not trade on the Walkman brand more for example). Create a strategy and allow the mobile division to innovate without interference from other parts of the company - strong leadership is needed for this
3. Create a level of exclusivity by releasing a limited number of handsets a year, say an entry level, mid-range, and a flagship device with each having its own best in class feature and the higher models incorporating at least as good features as the models below in addition to their headline feature which appeals to their particular target market. If apple released as many phones as Sony have since the split from Ericsson there's no way they could create the hype and buzz around each new release. Samsung are a special case as their strategy seems more focused on flooding the market with devices but even so their build quality isn't the best which could haunt them.
RE the patents issue it seems to come down to who has the most luck on the day. It seems to me that apples big fear is someone else coming up with the next big thing as once apple are no longer seem by the general public as leading edge they have nothing to fall back on as essentially their only asset is the apple brand. Is not like they can supply components to other companies like Samsung, Motorola, and Sony can and regroup.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using xda app-developers app
I agree with a lot of what others think here too.
Another thing is, look at how many partners Apple has in making the iPhone including:
CPU: Samsung, though rumoured Apple is trying to develop it's own chip
Screens: Samsung, Sharp
Camera: Sony
Can Apple really afford to fight with everyone? (I mean more than just money terms).
p.s. I have no doubt that Apple would be intimidated by the Sony+Ericsson patent portfolio. If having a huge patent portoflio wasn't useful, then why would all these tech. companies be spending billions on buying patents? I finished my thesis on the patent wars in college a few months ago, I wish I could have gotten more of this in! :victory:
I just found this, one of Steve Jobs' best friends thinks the Apple vs. Samsung verdict will be overturned and he says he doesn't agree with Apple recent behaviour anyway:
http://www.talkandroid.com/131823-a...idForums+(Android+News,+Rumours,+and+Updates)
Steve Wozniak
It's not about Sony itself.
The big boy here is Ericsson,wich have almost the entire range of intellectual patents for essential GSM communication and data. (2g,3g,4g...)
And Sony acquired it
Apple is not so dumb to do this.
They know the smell of "danger".
@draugaz
Mister, Sony is among the top 5 patent holders GLOBALLY. There is no way Apple can even dream of suing Sony.

When is the best time to buy computer parts?

Getting the right set of computer parts, whether for a brand new PC build or an upgrade, involves a good amount of research and most importantly, patience. It is wise to purchase individual PC parts over a period of time which can help you save some money. But as I mentioned, this requires a lot of patience especially if you have been planning to build a new PC for some time.
If I am being honest, there is never a good time to buy computer parts. You might get a new monitor today, but in a few years or even months, it will be replaced by a new model that will be brighter, sharper, have a higher resolution, or even a faster refresh rate.
Yearly sales
One can anticipate a potential drop in price during recurring yearly sales. Amazon hosts multiple sales throughout the year with the biggest one being Prime Day that is usually hosted in the month of June. Similarly, Newegg is also a good place to buy PC parts at discounted rates during their Supreme Tech, and clearance sales. Additionally, Newegg also has Shell Shocker exclusive deals where prices change every day on different types of products. There are also smaller sales on occasions like Valentine's Day, Labor Day, and of course right before the holiday season.
Black Friday and Cyber Monday are your best bet if you are looking for the best deals on PC parts. These are the biggest electronic sales where you can expect discounts, deals and price drops on a large range of hardware, peripherals, and other small PC parts. Retailers and sellers often host pre-Black Friday sales for long periods and those are not to be missed.
Having said that, don’t expect price drops on every single component. A lot depends on what you want to buy especially if you are seeking a particular model or a brand. There is a good chance that some component is not even included in the sale or the discounted price is not marginally better than the original cost.
Amazon Prime Day - June 21-22, 2021
Black Friday - November 26, 2021
Cyber Monday - November 29, 2021
Generational upgrades
This can be very tricky for the layman. However, if you are a PC enthusiast you can potentially capitalize when a newer generation of product is released. For instance, the introduction of Intel’s new 11th-gen CPUs has led to a small drop in the price of the outgoing 10th-gen CPUs. So yeah, it is s good time to get your hands on Intel’s Comet Lake processors.
The most obvious thing to note here is that you are not getting the latest piece of hardware, potentially missing out on a new feature or two. But if you don’t mind using hardware that is only one generation old, then this is a good way to save some money.
This isn’t always the case though, as it was evident when NVIDIA introduced its new GeForce RTX 3000-series last year. The entire GPU market has fluctuated with older generation parts selling at a premium, almost double the cost of their original retail price.
Price trackers
A good way to stay updated with the changes in the pricing of PC parts is by visiting PCPartPicker if you live in the US and PriceSpy if you live in the UK. These websites offer a breakdown of prices for a particular product from a list of vendors. This helps in comparing components, especially older generation models where you can end up saving a significant amount.
There are various external factors that can affect the price of PC parts. The most recent one is the ongoing chipset crisis along with crypto mining that has lead to an increase in the prices of graphics cards all over the world. Today, getting a new graphics card has become next to impossible, let alone getting one at retail price.
With this general chip storage and mining requirements (RTX and hard drive), I would be glad to buy a piece of hardware at MSRP... Not many deals these days...
The best time to buy computer parts? When you can afford them.
There's a bad time?
Haha
After building many PC's over the years starting in the early '90's there is never a good time to buy PC parts. Every last one of them become obsolete before you drive home and start building. This is why I retired from build PC's as I was always in the hunt for the latest and greatest. I have a stack of MB, graphic cards, HDD's, sound cards etc. You can never keep up. The best advice I can give is to buy the most forward looking motherboard and hopefully you'll get a few years out of it.
The best time to buy anything is when you need it, or, when it's in season.
When it's in stock and on sale.
Depends You Planning To LULZ
I got lucky when I built my Mecha-Godzilla PC a year ago, especially for the video card. Turns out I didn't really need one after all but I thought I did at the time, and I feel lucky for paying less than $200 for an nVidia 1650 (overclocked). So video cards were already expensive but they jumped up even more right after that
kunalneo said:
Getting the right set of computer parts, whether for a brand new PC build or an upgrade, involves a good amount of research and most importantly, patience. It is wise to purchase individual PC parts over a period of time which can help you save some money. But as I mentioned, this requires a lot of patience especially if you have been planning to build a new PC for some time.
If I am being honest, there is never a good time to buy computer parts. You might get a new monitor today, but in a few years or even months, it will be replaced by a new model that will be brighter, sharper, have a higher resolution, or even a faster refresh rate.
Yearly sales
One can anticipate a potential drop in price during recurring yearly sales. Amazon hosts multiple sales throughout the year with the biggest one being Prime Day that is usually hosted in the month of June. Similarly, Newegg is also a good place to buy PC parts at discounted rates during their Supreme Tech, and clearance sales. Additionally, Newegg also has Shell Shocker exclusive deals where prices change every day on different types of products. There are also smaller sales on occasions like Valentine's Day, Labor Day, and of course right before the holiday season.
Black Friday and Cyber Monday are your best bet if you are looking for the best deals on PC parts. These are the biggest electronic sales where you can expect discounts, deals and price drops on a large range of hardware, peripherals, and other small PC parts. Retailers and sellers often host pre-Black Friday sales for long periods and those are not to be missed.
Having said that, don’t expect price drops on every single component. A lot depends on what you want to buy especially if you are seeking a particular model or a brand. There is a good chance that some component is not even included in the sale or the discounted price is not marginally better than the original cost.
Amazon Prime Day - June 21-22, 2021
Black Friday - November 26, 2021
Cyber Monday - November 29, 2021
Generational upgrades
This can be very tricky for the layman. However, if you are a PC enthusiast you can potentially capitalize when a newer generation of product is released. For instance, the introduction of Intel’s new 11th-gen CPUs has led to a small drop in the price of the outgoing 10th-gen CPUs. So yeah, it is s good time to get your hands on Intel’s Comet Lake processors.
The most obvious thing to note here is that you are not getting the latest piece of hardware, potentially missing out on a new feature or two. But if you don’t mind using hardware that is only one generation old, then this is a good way to save some money.
This isn’t always the case though, as it was evident when NVIDIA introduced its new GeForce RTX 3000-series last year. The entire GPU market has fluctuated with older generation parts selling at a premium, almost double the cost of their original retail price.
Price trackers
A good way to stay updated with the changes in the pricing of PC parts is by visiting PCPartPicker if you live in the US and PriceSpy if you live in the UK. These websites offer a breakdown of prices for a particular product from a list of vendors. This helps in comparing components, especially older generation models where you can end up saving a significant amount.
There are various external factors that can affect the price of PC parts. The most recent one is the ongoing chipset crisis along with crypto mining that has lead to an increase in the prices of graphics cards all over the world. Today, getting a new graphics card has become next to impossible, let alone getting one at retail price.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just a small note for Canadian aligned part seekers, in relation to pcpartpicker.com - specify ca.pcpartpicker.com or you will at some point forget to make the adjustment and start getting all excited and giddy with the amazing prices that are happening at a time that does not coincide with cyber monday, black friday or the news that quantum computing just rendered all compy tech that is not included in the quantumyummygoodness effectively.. ineffective, the amazing prices are actually in USD and you didnt realize your cache refreshed or you're using a different browser or device - which you will then at least consider smashing a la "Hulk mad" mode. Yes of course it seems sensible at the time. So does fighting Thor. But its not his fault, its yours. You're welcome for the disaster aversion assistance, and apologies for the shattering of ignorance's "bliss", at least in this regard anyways.
roirraW edor ehT said:
I got lucky when I built my Mecha-Godzilla PC a year ago, especially for the video card. Turns out I didn't really need one after all but I thought I did at the time, and I feel lucky for paying less than $200 for an nVidia 1650 (overclocked). So video cards were already expensive but they jumped up even more right after that
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
May all your future "rodes" be as bumpy as my life since my current upgrade which started on January 23rd, 2021 and ends at some point in the yet to be determined future, I friggen hope.
Why the glum chum?
Amazon. Amazon is the reason for my bumpiness. Due 3x bad MSI B550 Carbon Wifi motherboards, followed by 2x altogether WRONG Gigabyte Wifi Elite z390 INTEL boards which were supposed to be Gigabyte Aorus Master x570 AMD boards, since I already had a Ryzen 5 3600 cpu waiting, and had also paid for at more than double the cost of the wrongfully delivered board - and this is where the inexplicable and nasty starts - at which point I was told that they would offer no other replacements, my only ootion being that once I returned the 5th board <as if I didn't return the first 4 promptly or notify them when they sent me 2 of the same product and returned the extra insulated water bottle as im an honest.. idiot>, they would send the 2 refunds.
They eventually sent back the refund for the Aorus <I had double paid for the first MSI board, and then upgraded to the Aorus Master with my tax return, so at one point was out $700ish to this mess>, but the initial 285.88 that I paid for the MSI Carbon board in January, which bank account by then had been closed for months, <an account that had been closed 3 months without my knowledge - after the first mb purchase made on Jan 23rd > - and this was now August 16th.
Amazon claims CIBC accepted the refund, CIBC said they didn't recieve it, <and still could not locate the refund with transaction codes given to me to take in to the bank so they could track it down>.
Then Amazon made a promise to rectify the issue within 72 hours after making me wait 15 more business days, after which they said 'too bad, we arent going to do anything'.
Thats not even bringing up the fact that I had explained to them that I had JUST been illegally evicted <after 5 years of residence> by the new landlord who wanted to jack the rent way up, like everywhere else during covid, and that I was living in my car <a Coupe no less> with my cat and dog for 2 months and was out of money. I also had a storage unit full of my things, costing me monthly until I could find another apartment.
So, I've had a brand new Phanteks white case, with aio rgb addressable liquid cooling, a new cpu still in box, new white 850 watt platinum plus ps fully modular, killer addressable rail rgbs, 2 sticks of white Crucial Ballistix RGB 3600mhz cl15 ram, new white grouped cables with rgb combs, m.2 512mb nvme pcie 4, corsair dark core rgb mouse, all gathering dust, until it was stolen while someone "helped" me move. I did talk to a buddy of mine, who is the right guy to know, and got it all back, BUT STILL WITHOUT A MB AMAZON. I started a new job, but by the time I backpay covid debt, and save up, itll be obsolete again. oh and i saved up the parts to build it, and did get to use it for a glorious 2 weeks before MSI Carbon board number 2 took a dump. All 3 had flashback bios issues. I spent days and weeks on them trying to get them going again. Never had bios flashing issues that i couldnt recover before those. Im 43, been building my whole life.
Oh, right, my point.. sorry didnt expect all that despite leaving out all kinds of details - I had to stick with my pair of MSI 970 GTXs 4MB Gaming gpus, selling one along with my old rig to afford the new parts because i couldnt find ANY that were anywhere NEAR affordable.
Hence the bumpy rode wishes, but not really obv just jerking around bro, seriously. Glad you got yours before things went full retard.
1st total upgrade in abour 12 years, after mb mods kept my Asus Crosshair V Formula Z relevant, even now. I have pictures of my gloriously short run, during the two weeks, if anyone is interested pm me. Sorry to detract from thread. All 3 24" Samsung monitors, also collecting that figuratively tear stained dust.
What? Fine. Not ALL figurative tears. Stupid covid. Hulk sad.
When the college/university midterm ends as students sell their desktops looking for laptops.
Right before a new hardware release comes out and there is a large amount of supply

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