I think this would be a terrible idea since i switched from t-mobile to sprint for better reception.
Check it out
http://www.afterdawn.com/news/archive/13839.cfm
P.S. Just realized that I posted this in the wrong section. Mods please feel free to move to the appropriate catagory.
if they do it will suck but i hope they switch to sim cards
Even if T-Mobile's parent company buys Sprint, they will never change the existing technology. If the deal happens, I bet they don't even change the name. Just because the parent company of T-Mobile buys Sprint doesn't mean that Sprint goes away completely and all your handsets now say T-Mobile...it just means you'll be forking over your paychecks to a different money hungry conglomerate.
I.E., Sprint will never use SIM cards, nor will they switch over to GSM...that is until maybe 2010 when LTE gets rolled out, but that's a horse of a different color.
I hope they dont switch to the sim cards those are jus easy ways for someone to steal your expensive pda
coming from T-Mobile to verizon I love the extra data speed but I hate that VZW using CDMA (i.e. no SIM cards) because I travel around the world extensively and stupid CDMA means I have to have a different phone (and number) on a GSM phone so i can use it overseas.
CDMA might be great here in the US, but it sucks everywhere else in the world. GSM might be older technology, but I have never found a country yet that my old nokia gsm phone doesn't work immediately as soon as I step out of the plane.
Why cant people just get along and all start using the SAME technology all round the world.
(I am not originally from the USA, so don't get me started on PAL vs NTSC or ATSC vs DVB. I cant get any AV equipment from OS to work here in USA or vice versa - forgetting even about the voltage difference!!!)
Ya, unfortunately CDMA really is the best option here in the US. Hopefully with Verizon going LTE for 4G we will see more convergence with global standards. And even if GSM is older than CDMA voice channel technology, HSDPA gives up nothing to it's CDMA counterparts (EVDO Rev A). How many 7.2 or 14.4 mbps EVDO networks are opperating in the states? Zero.
See that's the thing though...sadly GSM networks in the U.S. suck the proverbial big one when it comes to voice quality. As I said in my previous post, I have my fingers crossed that when LTE is rolled out in a few years, it fixes a lot of the problems here in the good ol' US of A.
bedoig said:
Ya, unfortunately CDMA really is the best option here in the US. Hopefully with Verizon going LTE for 4G we will see more convergence with global standards. And even if GSM is older than CDMA voice channel technology, HSDPA gives up nothing to it's CDMA counterparts (EVDO Rev A). How many 7.2 or 14.4 mbps EVDO networks are opperating in the states? Zero.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is LTE the natural progression path for both CDMA and GSM? If that would be the case then things are looking up for equipment compatibility.
gc, Agree though that in US, CDMA really is king - for now.
I don't buy what the articles says about Sprint users having to get GSM phones...
more than Half the value of sprint assets is in the infrastructure they have built, Not the actual subscribers who use that infrastructure.
What is more likely is that T-Mobile will add GSM support to the existing Sprint towers so that their coverage is better but keep the CDMA business since that is the one most prevelant in the US and the one most likely to generate additional revenues based on relay calls from other CDMA carriers.
At some point the phone industry has to start building dual format phones for those who need both GSM for overseas and CDMA for US use.
gcincotta said:
See that's the thing though...sadly GSM networks in the U.S. suck the proverbial big one when it comes to voice quality.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ah, I didn't know voice quality on GSM networks was any lower. I've only been on Sprint and Verizon myself.
maccaberry said:
Is LTE the natural progression path for both CDMA and GSM?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To my knowledge, LTE is actually unrelated and incompatible with any existing CDMA or GSM technologies. It would be a new from the ground up system. LTE seems to be the path that the global standard will take though, and since GSM (and its related data protocols) is currently the global standard, the two are often associated.
Asphyx said:
At some point the phone industry has to start building dual format phones for those who need both GSM for overseas and CDMA for US use.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There are a few (mostly Blackberries I think) but they are nothing that I particularly care for.
I dont know where they came up with sprint switching to gsm,my guess is the article was written by a gsm fanboy. Eventually of course,they would want to transition everyone onto a single network.A model for this is the sprint-nextel merger. Sprint still runs an IDEN network along side their CDMA netowork. In that case there were reasons to keep IDEN around,since PTT did not really work well over their data network. (I understand that EVDO rev A has QOS features that make it work better)
If sprint ends up merging with T-Mobile,I expect that something similar might happen. T-Mobile does not have nearly as good of data coverage as Sprint does. (Although I have heard rumors of HSPDA coming to T-Mobile,but havent really looked into it that much) For the time being they would run both networks. Its possible that they might actually convert the whole network to CDMA instead of GSM due to the fact that sprints network seems to be more developed.
In that case,they would probably stop selling new GSM handsets. When a customer wanted to upgrade their handset,they would have to get a CDMA unit. Eventually,there would be very few GSM users left,all of which would have older handsets. They would then offer those last few new handsets and discontinue GSM service. Other carriers have done exactly this in the past. I imagine that roaming agreements with at&t would actually allow them to turn off their gsm towers before they had transitioned those last few customers to CDMA. At the end of the day,they of course get those last customers to sign new contracts,a win for Sprint-Mobile.( T-Sprint? S-Moprint?)
Similarly,if they decided to go to GSM,they would have to wait untill a HSPDA network was ready. The transition would go the same way.
To my knowledge, LTE is actually unrelated and incompatible with any existing CDMA or GSM technologies. It would be a new from the ground up system. LTE seems to be the path that the global standard will take though, and since GSM (and its related data protocols) is currently the global standard, the two are often associated.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is untrue. LTE (Long Term Evolution) is the code name given to the project that the 3GPP is currently working on for their 4G standard (Release 8), and is aimed towards improving the current UMTS standard. The outcome will be modifications or extensions to UMTS, not a brand new system. The architecture we will likely see will be E-UTRAN (built off of existing UTRAN) standing for Evolved UTRAN which is on the access side, and EPC (Evolved Packet Core) on the core side, which make up the EPS architecture (Evolved Packet System).
Verizon has already announced they will be using "LTE" as their standard instead of UMB which is the successor in the CDMA2000 family. AT&T will also be using it as their 4G standard, but will provide HSUPA and HSPA+ as bridge standards.
Now, as of right now, Sprint on the other hand has announced they will be using WiMAX as their 4G standard. IF the Sprint - T-Mobile merger happens, we will not be seeing Sprint customers walking around with GSM handsets, instead we will see both Sprint and T-Mobile customers walking around with either full WiMAX handsets, or if they choose to, dual CDMA + WiMAX handsets.
gcincotta said:
This is untrue. LTE (Long Term Evolution) is the code name given to the project that the 3GPP is currently working on for their 4G standard (Release 8), and is aimed towards improving the current UMTS standard. The outcome will be modifications or extensions to UMTS, not a brand new system. The architecture we will likely see will be E-UTRAN (built off of existing UTRAN) standing for Evolved UTRAN which is on the access side, and EPC (Evolved Packet Core) on the core side, which make up the EPS architecture (Evolved Packet System).
Verizon has already announced they will be using "LTE" as their standard instead of UMB which is the successor in the CDMA2000 family. AT&T will also be using it as their 4G standard, but will provide HSUPA and HSPA+ as bridge standards.
Now, as of right now, Sprint on the other hand has announced they will be using WiMAX as their 4G standard. IF the Sprint - T-Mobile merger happens, we will not be seeing Sprint customers walking around with GSM handsets, instead we will see both Sprint and T-Mobile customers walking around with either full WiMAX handsets, or if they choose to, dual CDMA + WiMAX handsets.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's interesting. I was under the impression that although LTE was an evolution of current standards, in practice there would not be backwards compatibility with existing networks. I could very well be wrong, so please provide some evidence to the contrary (no wikipedia please).
Also, I believe that Sprint is second guessing their position on WiMax. They may still go forward with that technology, but I think (based on conversations with people from Sprint) they are evaluating other options now as well.
http://www.gsacom.com/news/gsa_240.php4
http://www.3gpp.org/Highlights/LTE/lte.htm
http://www.engadget.com/2008/04/04/verizon-announces-700mhz-lte-plans-can-you-wait-3-years/
http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/ATT-Plans-2008-3G-Expansion-91637
Thanks for the links.
While it appears that most networks will support both LTE and legacy technologies concurrently, the two are not interchangeable. A strictly LTE device wouldn't function on an HSDPA/HSUPA/UMTS/GSM network, and vice versa.
From the first link: "...co-existence with GSM/EDGE/UMTS systems..."
The two will not interfere with each other, and they can even be run from the same tower, but that is as far as it goes. They are still totally seperate technologies.
This is illustrated further in the second link you provided: "Co-existence in the same geographical area and co-location with GERAN/UTRAN on adjacent channels." The two cannot operate simultaneously on the same channel. Towers that support both LTE and existing technologies will be able to hand off the connection from one to the other though:
"E-UTRAN terminals supporting also UTRAN and/or GERAN operation should be able to support measurement of, and handover from and to, both 3GPP UTRAN and 3GPP GERAN."
"The interruption time during a handover of real-time services between E-UTRAN and UTRAN (or GERAN) should be less than 300 msec."
This supports my original statement. I may have been overly broad in saying that LTE is completely unrelated to existing technologies. There are undoubtebly some similarities, but the radio technology is radically different than anything currently used.
In practice, I would assume most devices will support both systems until 3G (and earlier) technologies are completely phased out. It would be a similar situation if Sprint decides to deploy a WiMAX network. The first WiMAX devices that appear would naturally support Sprint's existing networks as well as WiMAX. The device may operate on both WiMAX and EVDO, and may even be able to seemlessly hand off between the two, but that doesn't mean they are related.
You seem to be forgetting the original question you were answering though. One of the posters had asked if LTE is the natural progression path for CDMA and GSM networks. You answered him by stating that it is completely unrelated and is a completely new system altogether. I corrected you by saying that it is untrue as LTE is the natural progression path for GSM/UMTS/HSDPA networks as it is wholly based off current UMTS networks. I then went on to say that Verizon opted to vary off their natural progression path towards UMB instead by choosing to adopt LTE.
Though the radio/network infrastructures will be different, current GSM/UMTS/HSDPA providers will continue to support GSM/UMTS/HSDPA alongside LTE as it is their natural progression path. I wasn't trying to say that a GSM handset would simply work fine when trying to use a PURE LTE network. Providers will not just wake up one day and pull down all existing architecture completely expecting everyone to go buy a new PURE LTE handset. Just like when digital networks first came out, analog stayed around for a WHILE before they pulled it down...and handsets had BOTH analog and digital capabilities.
gcincotta said:
LTE is the natural progression path for GSM/UMTS/HSDPA networks as it is wholly based off current UMTS networks. I then went on to say that Verizon opted to vary off their natural progression path towards UMB instead by choosing to adopt LTE.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree that I may have oversimplified by calling them completely unrelated, but I think it is a bit of a misnomer to call LTE the natural progression path for one and not the other. Implementation of LTE will require a rollout of completely new network infrastructure. It is not merely an update to existing UMTS hardware. The two protocols have virtually nothing to do with each other, other than the fact that they were both introduced by the same regulatory body. It is the same thing with UMB. Just because CDMA and UMB were both developed by Qualcomm, doesn't imply a great deal of similarity or interoperability. UMB is only considered the natural progression of CDMA (as LTE is to UMTS) because they are both sanctioned by the same group. I don't think it is any more of a natural progression for an existing UMTS network to implement LTE than for Verizon, as both will have to roll out entirely new systems. The only difference would be that Verizon's network would be a mixture of CDMA and LTE, while the global standard would be a mixture of GSM/UMTS and LTE.
It looks like you are definetly right about Sprint going WiMAX. The Sprint/Clearwire deal that had previously fallen through is now back on. Several other companies like Intel, Google, and Time Warner are now investing in the deal as well. WiMAX it is.
bedoig said:
It looks like you are definetly right about Sprint going WiMAX. The Sprint/Clearwire deal that had previously fallen through is now back on. Several other companies like Intel, Google, and Time Warner are now investing in the deal as well. WiMAX it is.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well.. there goes standardization down the toilet..
I think they do it deliberately so we can't port or devices from one carrier to another.
Yeah you'd think Sprint would smarten up too when they see every other top carrier in the U.S. choosing LTE as their 4G solution...
Related
Hello i was just wondering if it is possible to brick a droid by flashing it from one carrier to another ?
i have tried google but the best answer was flashing my catche files, which is not what i was looking for
ilikeyoumore said:
Hello i was just wondering if it is possible to brick a droid by flashing it from one carrier to another ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://forum.xda-developers.com/wiki/index.php?title=Flashing_Guide_-_Android
In my opinion that is possible with every phone which is not CARRiER-UNLOCKED (CDMA) or SiM-UNLOCKED (GSM)
I'll explain..,
CDMA and GSM phones are based on different technologies CDMA and GSM phones are based on different technologies! In my opinion there's no phone with both technologies on the market today. I could be wrong here though.
CDMA - Code-Division Multiple Access
GSM - Global System for Mobile communications
Bad timing may have prevented the evolution of one, single global wireless standard. Just two years before CDMA's 1995 introduction in Hong Kong, European carriers and manufacturers chose to support the first available digital technology - Time Division Multiple Access (TDMA). GSM uses TDMA as its core technology. Therefore, since the majority of wireless users are in Europe and Asia, GSM has taken the worldwide lead as the technology of choice.
Advantages of CDMA include:
Increased cellular communications security.
Simultaneous conversations.
Increased efficiency, meaning that the carrier can serve more subscribers.
Smaller phones.
Low power requirements and little cell-to-cell coordination needed by operators.
Extended reach - beneficial to rural users situated far from cells.
Disadvantages of CDMA include:
Due to its proprietary nature, all of CDMA's flaws are not known to the engineering community.
CDMA is relatively new, and the network is not as mature as GSM.
CDMA cannot offer international roaming, a large GSM advantage.
Advantages of GSM:
GSM is already used worldwide with over 450 million subscribers.
International roaming permits subscribers to use one phone throughout Western Europe. CDMA will work in Asia, but not France, Germany, the U.K. and other popular European destinations.
GSM is mature, having started in the mid-80s. This maturity means a more stable network with robust features. CDMA is still building its network.
GSM's maturity means engineers cut their teeth on the technology, creating an unconscious preference.
The availability of Subscriber Identity Modules, which are smart cards that provide secure data encryption give GSM m-commerce advantages.
Disadvantages of GSM:
Lack of access to burgeoning American market.
no problem at all, go ahead.
phones very rarely brick
Tho it hardly ever happens, flashing a Rom can always brick the device. So always be carefully when flashing. Make sure your power supply is connected and that you read the guide your using carefully.
Senax said:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/wiki/index.php?title=Flashing_Guide_-_Android
In my opinion that is possible with every phone which is not CARRiER-UNLOCKED (CDMA) or SiM-UNLOCKED (GSM)
I'll explain..,
CDMA and GSM phones are based on different technologies CDMA and GSM phones are based on different technologies! In my opinion there's no phone with both technologies on the market today. I could be wrong here though.
CDMA - Code-Division Multiple Access
GSM - Global System for Mobile communications
Bad timing may have prevented the evolution of one, single global wireless standard. Just two years before CDMA's 1995 introduction in Hong Kong, European carriers and manufacturers chose to support the first available digital technology - Time Division Multiple Access (TDMA). GSM uses TDMA as its core technology. Therefore, since the majority of wireless users are in Europe and Asia, GSM has taken the worldwide lead as the technology of choice.
Advantages of CDMA include:
Increased cellular communications security.
Simultaneous conversations.
Increased efficiency, meaning that the carrier can serve more subscribers.
Smaller phones.
Low power requirements and little cell-to-cell coordination needed by operators.
Extended reach - beneficial to rural users situated far from cells.
Disadvantages of CDMA include:
Due to its proprietary nature, all of CDMA's flaws are not known to the engineering community.
CDMA is relatively new, and the network is not as mature as GSM.
CDMA cannot offer international roaming, a large GSM advantage.
Advantages of GSM:
GSM is already used worldwide with over 450 million subscribers.
International roaming permits subscribers to use one phone throughout Western Europe. CDMA will work in Asia, but not France, Germany, the U.K. and other popular European destinations.
GSM is mature, having started in the mid-80s. This maturity means a more stable network with robust features. CDMA is still building its network.
GSM's maturity means engineers cut their teeth on the technology, creating an unconscious preference.
The availability of Subscriber Identity Modules, which are smart cards that provide secure data encryption give GSM m-commerce advantages.
Disadvantages of GSM:
Lack of access to burgeoning American market.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
whew! impressive!
Senax said:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/wiki/index.php?title=Flashing_Guide_-_Android
In my opinion that is possible with every phone which is not CARRiER-UNLOCKED (CDMA) or SiM-UNLOCKED (GSM)
I'll explain..,
CDMA and GSM phones are based on different technologies CDMA and GSM phones are based on different technologies! In my opinion there's no phone with both technologies on the market today. I could be wrong here though.
CDMA - Code-Division Multiple Access
GSM - Global System for Mobile communications
Bad timing may have prevented the evolution of one, single global wireless standard. Just two years before CDMA's 1995 introduction in Hong Kong, European carriers and manufacturers chose to support the first available digital technology - Time Division Multiple Access (TDMA). GSM uses TDMA as its core technology. Therefore, since the majority of wireless users are in Europe and Asia, GSM has taken the worldwide lead as the technology of choice.
Advantages of CDMA include:
Increased cellular communications security.
Simultaneous conversations.
Increased efficiency, meaning that the carrier can serve more subscribers.
Smaller phones.
Low power requirements and little cell-to-cell coordination needed by operators.
Extended reach - beneficial to rural users situated far from cells.
Disadvantages of CDMA include:
Due to its proprietary nature, all of CDMA's flaws are not known to the engineering community.
CDMA is relatively new, and the network is not as mature as GSM.
CDMA cannot offer international roaming, a large GSM advantage.
Advantages of GSM:
GSM is already used worldwide with over 450 million subscribers.
International roaming permits subscribers to use one phone throughout Western Europe. CDMA will work in Asia, but not France, Germany, the U.K. and other popular European destinations.
GSM is mature, having started in the mid-80s. This maturity means a more stable network with robust features. CDMA is still building its network.
GSM's maturity means engineers cut their teeth on the technology, creating an unconscious preference.
The availability of Subscriber Identity Modules, which are smart cards that provide secure data encryption give GSM m-commerce advantages.
Disadvantages of GSM:
Lack of access to burgeoning American market.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the info. BTW, is the ability to have both access to the data and voice at the same time a GSM thing, or just an AT&T thing? I'm guessing GSM since I believe that I read that it's a disadvantage of any CDMA network, not being able to access both at the same time.
I got my tbolt on launch day, but I don't have lte service in my area so I'm on the ehrpd network 99% of the time.
When I first got the phone I got really impressive ehrpd speeds 2.5 mbps and 1.3 - 1.5 mbps up.
Now after months of lte phones being out I get 1.3 Max and 800 up.
I know that ehrpd is the same as far as maximum speed, but I'm wondering of anyone else has noticed this slowdown in 3g areas, possibly caused by more users on ehrpd
Sent from my ADR6400L using XDA App
movielover76 said:
I got my tbolt on launch day, but I don't have lte service in my area so I'm on the ehrpd network 99% of the time.
When I first got the phone I got really impressive ehrpd speeds 2.5 mbps and 1.3 - 1.5 mbps up.
Now after months of lte phones being out I get 1.3 Max and 800 up.
I know that ehrpd is the same as far as maximum speed, but I'm wondering of anyone else has noticed this slowdown in 3g areas, possibly caused by more users on ehrpd
Sent from my ADR6400L using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
EHRPD (evolved high rate packet data) is a protocol subset of cdm2000, which is the network. NOT EHRPD. HRPD is implemented in 1xRTT evolved networks such as EV-DO rev.0 and 1 in order to break from a switch based network to a packet based network. EHRPD is supposed to support hand-over from CDMA networks to LTE networks, however, Verizon hasn't widely implemented EHRPD so far as I can tell. I RARELY see a hand-off of an active data session back or forth from CDMA to LTE.
The only things that would really effect your speeds over a CDMA network would be the backing network of the base station (tower) or user base in the cell. I don't believe Verizon throttles that data. They certainly don't throttle data on LTE.
loonatik78 said:
EHRPD (evolved high rate packet data) is a protocol subset of cdm2000, which is the network. NOT EHRPD. HRPD is implemented in 1xRTT evolved networks such as EV-DO rev.0 and 1 in order to break from a switch based network to a packet based network. EHRPD is supposed to support hand-over from CDMA networks to LTE networks, however, Verizon hasn't widely implemented EHRPD so far as I can tell. I RARELY see a hand-off of an active data session back or forth from CDMA to LTE.
The only things that would really effect your speeds over a CDMA network would be the backing network of the base station (tower) or user base in the cell. I don't believe Verizon throttles that data. They certainly don't throttle data on LTE.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So are you saying EHRPD towers are similar to LTE towers? Or am I way the hell off?
ghstrdr1985 said:
So are you saying EHRPD towers are similar to LTE towers? Or am I way the hell off?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ehrpd resides in the towers with lte and helps with the handoff between going from 4g back to 3g. how many towers currently have it? I do not know, but I'd say not that many.
ghstrdr1985 said:
So are you saying EHRPD towers are similar to LTE towers? Or am I way the hell off?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm saying there's not such thing as an EHRPD tower. You've got CDMA towers and you've got LTE. These technologies are VERY different. Let me try to break this down. I probably should have explained it better above.
First, for the record, for cost considerations, LTE and CDMA for Verizon come off the same physical towers. There's not much point in erecting different towers for different antennas if they're still physical space on existing towers.
So... from the beginning...
Verizon runs to completely separate networks today. One is based on CDMA technology, one on LTE. Let me start first with CDMA.
CDMA, otherwise known as Code Division Multiple Access, is a method of physically transmitting a signal to and from a device. Verizon implements asynchronous CDMA to avoid issues with doppler shift in the signal frequency and speed of light delay from transmission to reception. CDMA is the radio access technology, NOT the protocol. The protocol is a patented technology known as cdma2000 and uses the CDMA radio access method as it's base layer.
cdma2000 is the protocol and encompasses a number of transmission protocols. Those would include IS-95, 1xRTT, 1xEV-DO, and the 1xEV-DO revisions 0, A, and B. To clarify, 1xEV-DO stands for single channel evolved-data optimized. EHRPD is a subset data transmission protocol of revision A of 1xEV-DO. I believe that Verizon didn't implement EHRPD very widely in it's deployment of EV-DO rev.A because at the point of first introduction their path of evolution was undecided. They very well could have moved on with EV-DO rev. B and attained speeds comparable to WiMax while being able to upgrade many of the existing CDMA handsets with new firmware to utilize the newer revision, just as had been done when rev. A came. One of the issues with cdma2000 is that the protocols aren't compatible. EV-DO used to stand for Evolution-Data Only, because data is all it does. When the devices is used for a voice call, it must switch protocol modes back to IS-95 to interface with the switch-based voice network on the backside of the tower. This is why CDMA devices cannot do data while in call.
LTE is a completely different technology altogether. It's an evolution of GSM, and accordingly, expands upon the basic technology of GSM. The base of GSM is TDMA, Time Division Multiple Access. Each device has a time slot that it's allowed to transmit or receive data on, usually a small fraction of a second. LTE also makes use of FDMA, Frequency Division Multiple Access, meaning that there are many frequencies that can be used to address different devices.
LTE makes uses of protocols, some similar to GSM protocols, to transmit and receive data. These are described in the LTE specification, and as time passes, additional LTE protocol specifications will be added, such as LTE Advance.
The goal of Verizon is to have a pure LTE network in the future. LTE is not simply a data transmission technology, but rather a full blown cellular standard just as GSM is, and as such can carry voice. When it does, voice will be basically VoIP, as LTE is a completely packet based technology and doesn't depend upon network switching (unlike IS-95 and 1xRTT, which is still the voice carrier technology supported by cdma2000). Carriers like this because it makes upgrading and scaling the network easier. The end result will be a more seamless user experience and the ability to integrate native voice features into data features of the device.
Modern LTE devices accomplish voice and data by using 2 different radios. In the Thunderbolt, that would be the CDMA radio built into the MSM8655 Soc processor and the MDM9600 LTE modem chip. Currently, this is the ONLY combination of chips that allows full simultaneous voice and data over the entire network. Unless the LTE chip of the devices handles both CDMA and LTE, AND can interlink with the SoC radio to manage SAR power limits, this will remain the case. Currently, only Qualcomm chipsets accomplish this, making the Thunderbolt the most functionally connected device ever sold on Verizon.
If anyone is interested in knowing more, let me know. I'll write up a bit more in-depth primer on these subjects and post it.
Thanks
Sorry, I did post this in the wrong forum, and as such I deserve some flaming lol.
I've been around here for a little while since jan 2011, it was just a brainfart.
I know I am connected to ehrpd because under about phone it says cdma - ehrpd
I'm just a little south, maybe 6 miles for the LTE market in Northern NJ, I was just wondering if anyone else in a 3G area experienced a similar slowdown.
I bought a 4G handset knowing it might be awhile before i get LTE, because I was concerned about being stuck in a tiered data plan when I upgraded to 4G, turned out not to be an issue, but I'm still happy I got it, it's a great phone
and I do use LTE occasionally like when to school.
Thanks for all the replies, and if theirs any other oddballs in a 3G area most of the time with a thunderbolt, let me know if you've experienced anything similair
loonatik78 said:
I'm saying there's not such thing as an EHRPD tower. You've got CDMA towers and you've got LTE. These technologies are VERY different. Let me try to break this down. I probably should have explained it better above.
First, for the record, for cost considerations, LTE and CDMA for Verizon come off the same physical towers. There's not much point in erecting different towers for different antennas if they're still physical space on existing towers.
So... from the beginning...
Verizon runs to completely separate networks today. One is based on CDMA technology, one on LTE. Let me start first with CDMA.
CDMA, otherwise known as Code Division Multiple Access, is a method of physically transmitting a signal to and from a device. Verizon implements asynchronous CDMA to avoid issues with doppler shift in the signal frequency and speed of light delay from transmission to reception. CDMA is the radio access technology, NOT the protocol. The protocol is a patented technology known as cdma2000 and uses the CDMA radio access method as it's base layer.
cdma2000 is the protocol and encompasses a number of transmission protocols. Those would include IS-95, 1xRTT, 1xEV-DO, and the 1xEV-DO revisions 0, A, and B. To clarify, 1xEV-DO stands for single channel evolved-data optimized. EHRPD is a subset data transmission protocol of revision A of 1xEV-DO. I believe that Verizon didn't implement EHRPD very widely in it's deployment of EV-DO rev.A because at the point of first introduction their path of evolution was undecided. They very well could have moved on with EV-DO rev. B and attained speeds comparable to WiMax while being able to upgrade many of the existing CDMA handsets with new firmware to utilize the newer revision, just as had been done when rev. A came. One of the issues with cdma2000 is that the protocols aren't compatible. EV-DO used to stand for Evolution-Data Only, because data is all it does. When the devices is used for a voice call, it must switch protocol modes back to IS-95 to interface with the switch-based voice network on the backside of the tower. This is why CDMA devices cannot do data while in call.
LTE is a completely different technology altogether. It's an evolution of GSM, and accordingly, expands upon the basic technology of GSM. The base of GSM is TDMA, Time Division Multiple Access. Each device has a time slot that it's allowed to transmit or receive data on, usually a small fraction of a second. LTE also makes use of FDMA, Frequency Division Multiple Access, meaning that there are many frequencies that can be used to address different devices.
LTE makes uses of protocols, some similar to GSM protocols, to transmit and receive data. These are described in the LTE specification, and as time passes, additional LTE protocol specifications will be added, such as LTE Advance.
The goal of Verizon is to have a pure LTE network in the future. LTE is not simply a data transmission technology, but rather a full blown cellular standard just as GSM is, and as such can carry voice. When it does, voice will be basically VoIP, as LTE is a completely packet based technology and doesn't depend upon network switching (unlike IS-95 and 1xRTT, which is still the voice carrier technology supported by cdma2000). Carriers like this because it makes upgrading and scaling the network easier. The end result will be a more seamless user experience and the ability to integrate native voice features into data features of the device.
Modern LTE devices accomplish voice and data by using 2 different radios. In the Thunderbolt, that would be the CDMA radio built into the MSM8655 Soc processor and the MDM9600 LTE modem chip. Currently, this is the ONLY combination of chips that allows full simultaneous voice and data over the entire network. Unless the LTE chip of the devices handles both CDMA and LTE, AND can interlink with the SoC radio to manage SAR power limits, this will remain the case. Currently, only Qualcomm chipsets accomplish this, making the Thunderbolt the most functionally connected device ever sold on Verizon.
If anyone is interested in knowing more, let me know. I'll write up a bit more in-depth primer on these subjects and post it.
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Man that is a mouthful. However, the Thunderbolt can talk & surf the web in 3G mode, not just LTE. So LTE will be a competition for GSM in the coming years?
Sent from my ADR6400L using xda premium
ghstrdr1985 said:
Man that is a mouthful. However, the Thunderbolt can talk & surf the web in 3G mode, not just LTE. So LTE will be a competition for GSM in the coming years?
Sent from my ADR6400L using xda premium
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it'll be the 4th generation of GSM (4g).
ghstrdr1985 said:
Man that is a mouthful. However, the Thunderbolt can talk & surf the web in 3G mode, not just LTE. So LTE will be a competition for GSM in the coming years?
Sent from my ADR6400L using xda premium
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That's what I said. Its because the Tbolt has 2 cdma radios.
loonatik78 said:
That's what I said. Its because the Tbolt has 2 cdma radios.
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This phone has sooo much potential but is inhibited by Verizon.
Sent from my ADR6400L using xda premium
Does anyone know if it is possible to use Verizon's LTE on the Evo LTE? Kind of like the Verizon roaming hack that was available for a little bit?
It might be too soon to tell....just wondering if anybody knew.
champ052005 said:
Does anyone know if it is possible to use Verizon's LTE on the Evo LTE? Kind of like the Verizon roaming hack that was available for a little bit?
It might be too soon to tell....just wondering if anybody knew.
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Sprint's and Verizon's LTE operates on different freqs, and afaik, the phone only is set to operate on Sprint's freq. So not possible.
Not Possible....
What they said.
LTE service will be more fragmented than 3G service.
All the major players are not paying nice with each other's frequency.
Señor Poo said:
What they said.
LTE service will be more fragmented than 3G service.
All the major players are not paying nice with each other's frequency.
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Not the case. Each provider uses certain bandwidth that they "purchased" by auction from the FCC. They can only use those frequencies allocated (licensed) to them transmission wise. The hardware has to be type certified by the FCC for use only on the providers licensed frequencies. See the FCC doesn't care what frequencies you receive, but more on what/where you transmit in the RF spectrum.
You'll never see cross-licensing. For two reason's. The law won't allow it (monopoly/anti-trust), and the companies won't (one big winner, and nobody wants to be one of the losers).
kf2m said:
Not the case. Each provider uses certain bandwidth that they "purchased" by auction from the FCC. They can only use those frequencies allocated (licensed) to them transmission wise. The hardware has to be type certified by the FCC for use only on the providers licensed frequencies. See the FCC doesn't care what frequencies you receive, but more on what/where you transmit in the RF spectrum.
You'll never see cross-licensing. For two reason's. The law won't allow it (monopoly/anti-trust), and the companies won't (one big winner, and nobody wants to be one of the losers).
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From PC Mag:
"...Verizon and AT&T both run their LTE networks in the 700-MHz band. But Verizon's network is mostly in 746-787MHz, while AT&T's will be primarily in 704-746MHz. Some Verizon and AT&T spectrum overlaps in an area called the "lower B block," but not much..."
More on why you won't see it happen:
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2388526,00.asp
Is there any way to get the AT&T variant working on Verizon? Heard users could flash the T-Mobile radio for them but what about Verizon?
No. Not at all possible.
Thank you, it was worth a shot
Airo18 said:
Thank you, it was worth a shot
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I think the correct answer is, no one knows yet. Modern smartphones are capable to supporting multiple network types, frequencies and technologies. Hardware-wise, the AT&T, T-Mobile, and (probably) the Sprint versions are identical and differ only by provisioning and preloaded software.
d2kplus said:
I think the correct answer is, no one knows yet. Modern smartphones are capable to supporting multiple network types, frequencies and technologies. Hardware-wise, the AT&T, T-Mobile, and (probably) the Sprint versions are identical and differ only by provisioning and preloaded software.
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Verizon and AT&T while both "4G LTE" using basically the same technology, have different frequency radios in them. They aren't cross platform capable.
d2kplus said:
I think the correct answer is, no one knows yet. Modern smartphones are capable to supporting multiple network types, frequencies and technologies. Hardware-wise, the AT&T, T-Mobile, and (probably) the Sprint versions are identical and differ only by provisioning and preloaded software.
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Rogue Leader said:
Verizon and AT&T while both "4G LTE" using basically the same technology, have different frequency radios in them. They aren't cross platform capable.
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It's not possible, period. Sprint and Verizon operate on CDMA networks, whereas AT&T and T-Mobile operate on GSM. As long as the proper frequencies are supported, any GSM phone can run on any GSM network provided they're SIM unlocked.
4GLTE is currently only used by Verizon for data connections, and not for voice/text--that relies on the 3G CDMA antennae. The same goes for Sprint. The AT&T/T-Mobile-/International HTC One does not physically possess an CDMA atennae. Now before you get your hopes up about using a Sprint phone on Verizon, here's another little wrinkle. As you know, every phone has a serial number. That serial number is known as the IMEI on GSM carriers, and ESN on CDMA carriers. Both Verizon and Sprint operate a massive list of ESNs for everyone phone that can operate on their network. If your ESN is not found on that list, then you cannot activate it on that particular network period, paragraph, end of story. Do not pass go, do not collect $200.
Things get a little murkier with CDMA when it comes to flashing the radios over to other CDMA carriers, but you're looking at services like MetroPCS, PagePlus, etc and that's outside my realm of expertise.
Airo18 said:
Thank you, it was worth a shot
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Rogue Leader said:
Verizon and AT&T while both "4G LTE" using basically the same technology, have different frequency radios in them. They aren't cross platform capable.
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Click to collapse
The Verizon and AT&T networks use the different frequencies and technologies. However, the HTC One (like the iPhone 5) is able to run on nearly all permutations of modern phone networks. Apple makes only two versions of the iPhone, one for AT&T and one for everyone else. The AT&T version only exists because AT&T strong armed Apple into removing AT&T's LTE block from the main model.
For example, the Sprint version of the One is a world phone, usable on global "GSM" networks, as well as Sprint's "CDMA" networks. I put GSM and CDMA in quotes because modern wireless networks are more complicated than either of those two designations, and high-end phones are now designed to deal with those complexities via soft configuration vs. dedicated hardware.
d2kplus said:
The Verizon and AT&T networks use the different frequencies and technologies. However, the HTC One (like the iPhone 5) is able to run on nearly all permutations of modern phone networks. Apple makes only two versions of the iPhone, one for AT&T and one for everyone else. The AT&T version only exists because AT&T strong armed Apple into removing AT&T's LTE block from the main model.
For example, the Sprint version of the One is a world phone, usable on global "GSM" networks, as well as Sprint's "CDMA" networks. I put GSM and CDMA in quotes because modern wireless networks are more complicated than either of those two designations, and high-end phones are now designed to deal with those complexities via soft configuration vs. dedicated hardware.
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Click to collapse
Sort of, sort of. You're going in the right path, but still not quite there. Hardware is still very important.
GSM phones are considered world phones because most of the networks operated in foreign countries run on GSM, right. CDMA world phones possess both antennae in order to access the networks over seas, but GSM phones don't have CDMA antennaes because... well, they don't need them. Your chances of going to a CDMA-only country is so very small that it's not worth while to make the investment. Let's take the opposite example using the iPhone 5: You can't take an AT&T/T-Mobile/International iPhone 5 and put in a Sprint SIM card. You can even do a iTunes restore using the Sprint IPSW onto that phone(actually don't know if that would work or not, but I digress) and it STILL won't get a signal because it physically lacks the antennae.
unremarked said:
Sort of, sort of. You're going in the right path, but still not quite there. Hardware is still very important.
GSM phones are considered world phones because most of the networks operated in foreign countries run on GSM, right. CDMA world phones possess both antennae in order to access the networks over seas, but GSM phones don't have CDMA antennaes because... well, they don't need them. Your chances of going to a CDMA-only country is so very small that it's not worth while to make the investment. Let's take the opposite example using the iPhone 5: You can't take an AT&T/T-Mobile/International iPhone 5 and put in a Sprint SIM card. You can even do a iTunes restore using the Sprint IPSW onto that phone(actually don't know if that would work or not, but I digress) and it STILL won't get a signal because it physically lacks the antennae.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Again, I was talking about modern phones (like the HTC One), which are designed to be multi network and multi frequency global phones by default. HTC makes three versions of the phone: UMTS/GSM Only (MDM8215), UMTS/GSM+LTE (MDM9215), CDMA + UMTS/GSM +LTE (MDM9615). Sprint sells the version using the MDM9615 chipset which supports CDMA + UMTS/GSM + LTE. The Sprint variant has the capabilities to support all of the US/Canada frequencies, but I don't know what would be required to activate non Sprint frequencies. Neither do you. It's foolish to make grand pronouncements stating what is or isn't possible with phones until someone has actually attempted something.
Regarding your antenna statement, the HTC One has three antennas, one for WiFi and BT and two for wireless. The phone selects the best antenna to use in any given situation.
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d2kplus said:
Again, I was talking about modern phones (like the HTC One), which are designed to be multi network and multi frequency global phones by default. HTC makes three versions of the phone: UMTS/GSM Only (MDM8215), UMTS/GSM+LTE (MDM9215), CDMA + UMTS/GSM +LTE (MDM9615). Sprint sells the version using the MDM9615 chipset which supports CDMA + UMTS/GSM + LTE. The Sprint variant has the capabilities to support all of the US/Canada frequencies, but I don't know what would be required to activate non Sprint frequencies. Neither do you. It's foolish to make grand pronouncements stating what is or isn't possible with phones until someone has actually attempted something.
Regarding your antenna statement, the HTC One has three antennas, one for WiFi and BT and two for wireless. The phone selects the best antenna to use in any given situation.
MY EDIT: REMOVED IMAGE.
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I think you're a little confused on exactly what we're talking about here. Yes, you're absolutely right that the Sprint HTC One possess all the necessary ingredients to operate on just about any network/carrier in the world--GSM or CDMA. And, actually, I do know what's required in order to it to happen. For a GSM network, the only requirements to do so is a correctly provisioned SIM cards and the applicable access point names for the network you're trying to utilize. I've personally taken an CDMA world device and used it on a GSM network(VZW iPhone 5 on Straight Talk/AT&T). The Sprint HTC One would even work on Verizon, provided you get the ESN added to the master database of approved devices which is highly unlikely. Source: I worked for Verizon Wireless. Other CDMA carriers like MetroPCS, PagePlus, Cricket, etc do not have this requirement and it's relatively easy to flash Sprint/VZW phones over to their network.
But that's not at all what's being debated. WiFi and Bluetooth likewise have nothing to do with this conversation. As you've correctly noted, the MDM9215M chipset(step 10, highlighted in green) which powers the wireless antennae and allows them to connect to cellular networks does not support CDMA in the AT&T/T-Mobile/International version of the phone. Because of this fact alone, regardless of software configuration, these phones will never operate on a CDMA network. Now if you're an enterprising individual and decide to open your phone, remove the chip, and replace it with one that does support CDMA... you'd still run into the issue of the master database.
EDIT: I removed the image just to clean up the look of the post.
unremarked said:
Sort of, sort of. You're going in the right path, but still not quite there. Hardware is still very important.
GSM phones are considered world phones because most of the networks operated in foreign countries run on GSM, right. CDMA world phones possess both antennae in order to access the networks over seas, but GSM phones don't have CDMA antennaes because... well, they don't need them. Your chances of going to a CDMA-only country is so very small that it's not worth while to make the investment. Let's take the opposite example using the iPhone 5: You can't take an AT&T/T-Mobile/International iPhone 5 and put in a Sprint SIM card. You can even do a iTunes restore using the Sprint IPSW onto that phone(actually don't know if that would work or not, but I digress) and it STILL won't get a signal because it physically lacks the antennae.
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Click to collapse
unremarked said:
I think you're a little confused on exactly what we're talking about here. Yes, you're absolutely right that the Sprint HTC One possess all the necessary ingredients to operate on just about any network/carrier in the world--GSM or CDMA. And, actually, I do know what's required in order to it to happen. For a GSM network, the only requirements to do so is a correctly provisioned SIM cards and the applicable access point names for the network you're trying to utilize. I've personally taken an CDMA world device and used it on a GSM network(VZW iPhone 5 on Straight Talk/AT&T). The Sprint HTC One would even work on Verizon, provided you get the ESN added to the master database of approved devices which is highly unlikely. Source: I worked for Verizon Wireless. Other CDMA carriers like MetroPCS, PagePlus, Cricket, etc do not have this requirement and it's relatively easy to flash Sprint/VZW phones over to their network.
But that's not at all what's being debated. WiFi and Bluetooth likewise have nothing to do with this conversation. As you've correctly noted, the MDM9215M chipset(step 10, highlighted in green) which powers the wireless antennae and allows them to connect to cellular networks does not support CDMA in the AT&T/T-Mobile/International version of the phone. Because of this fact alone, regardless of software configuration, these phones will never operate on a CDMA network. Now if you're an enterprising individual and decide to open your phone, remove the chip, and replace it with one that does support CDMA... you'd still run into the issue of the master database.
EDIT: I removed the image just to clean up the look of the post.
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Click to collapse
The ESN information for LTE enabled smartphones is included on the SIM/UICC/R-UIM rather than the phone itself, so the issue is one of provisioning a given phone's capabilities to work on the VZW vs the Sprint network. I don't know if this is user configurable or if carriers would be willing to do.
Regarding the antennas, the same antenna configuration is used on all models. There is no additional antenna on the CDMA capable model. That functionality is provided by the Qualcomm MDM9615. It's a bit unfortunate that HTC didn't take Apple's approach in using the MDM9615 on all HTC One variants. I assume that VZW's decision to pass on the phone may have had something to do with it.
Now back to your original point, I was mistaken and you are correct. While the Sprint version could potentially be used on AT&T, T-Mobile and Verizon. The AT&T (UMTS/GSM+LTE) version cannot be used on the Verizon network, and that's a damn shame.
unremarked said:
It's not possible, period. Sprint and Verizon operate on CDMA networks, whereas AT&T and T-Mobile operate on GSM. As long as the proper frequencies are supported, any GSM phone can run on any GSM network provided they're SIM unlocked.
4GLTE is currently only used by Verizon for data connections, and not for voice/text--that relies on the 3G CDMA antennae. The same goes for Sprint. The AT&T/T-Mobile-/International HTC One does not physically possess an CDMA atennae. Now before you get youSprint
esopes up about using a Sprint phone on Verizon, here's another little wrinkle. As you know, every phone has a serial number. That serial number is known as the IMEI on GSM carriers, and ESN on CDMA carriers. Both Verizon and Sprint operate a massive list of ESNs for everyone phone that can operate on their network. If your ESN is not found on that list, then you cannot activate it on that particular network period, paragraph, end of story. Do not pass go, do not collect $200.
Things get a little murkier with CDMA when it comes to flashing the radios over to other CDMA carriers, but you're looking at services like MetroPCS, PagePlus, etc and that's outside my realm of expertise.
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IMEI/ESN is carrier specific. Can't be changed. However can't we trick the phone itself through software to unlock the capability of using a Verizon LTE Sim in a Sprint phone. Flash a Verizon ROM? Sprint and Verizon are the exact same CDMA/LTE band, same internal hardware.
Speaking only of using a Verizon LTE sim for data on a Sprint device. I have a Sprint One. Not with Sprint any longer. Want to use my device as a PDA, internet capable.
So I've been on iPhone for a while and was really interested in moving over to this to come back to Android, but the lack of band 13 support kills the deal for me.
I don't suppose enabling additional bands is an option on this phone, I know in the past some models were able to via various methods, but figuring it's a long shot here. This is about the only device I'd be interested in switching to if I were to make the jump.
You wont be able to activate any bands that is not already baked into the radio. However, I'm using it on VZW just fine with n77 NSA working properly. Are you normally in a place for VZW where b5 850mhz won't reach but b13 700mhz will?
Not sure, I've never really checked what bands I'm using. This was more of a "I'm interested in it but don't want to buy it and regret because of connectivity". Thanks for the input!
wafflenator said:
Not sure, I've never really checked what bands I'm using. This was more of a "I'm interested in it but don't want to buy it and regret because of connectivity". Thanks for the input!
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Verizon (United States of America)Cell Tower Map
CellMapper is a crowd-sourced cellular tower and coverage mapping service.
www.cellmapper.net
Move the map to where you normally are, see if you have a decently dense network of verizon towers, then see if they support any bands other than b13.
b13 will be the nationwide rural / extended range coverage. If you live in a major city, you should see dense 2/66. If you are in certain places, you'll see decently b5 coverage.