I got my tbolt on launch day, but I don't have lte service in my area so I'm on the ehrpd network 99% of the time.
When I first got the phone I got really impressive ehrpd speeds 2.5 mbps and 1.3 - 1.5 mbps up.
Now after months of lte phones being out I get 1.3 Max and 800 up.
I know that ehrpd is the same as far as maximum speed, but I'm wondering of anyone else has noticed this slowdown in 3g areas, possibly caused by more users on ehrpd
Sent from my ADR6400L using XDA App
movielover76 said:
I got my tbolt on launch day, but I don't have lte service in my area so I'm on the ehrpd network 99% of the time.
When I first got the phone I got really impressive ehrpd speeds 2.5 mbps and 1.3 - 1.5 mbps up.
Now after months of lte phones being out I get 1.3 Max and 800 up.
I know that ehrpd is the same as far as maximum speed, but I'm wondering of anyone else has noticed this slowdown in 3g areas, possibly caused by more users on ehrpd
Sent from my ADR6400L using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
EHRPD (evolved high rate packet data) is a protocol subset of cdm2000, which is the network. NOT EHRPD. HRPD is implemented in 1xRTT evolved networks such as EV-DO rev.0 and 1 in order to break from a switch based network to a packet based network. EHRPD is supposed to support hand-over from CDMA networks to LTE networks, however, Verizon hasn't widely implemented EHRPD so far as I can tell. I RARELY see a hand-off of an active data session back or forth from CDMA to LTE.
The only things that would really effect your speeds over a CDMA network would be the backing network of the base station (tower) or user base in the cell. I don't believe Verizon throttles that data. They certainly don't throttle data on LTE.
loonatik78 said:
EHRPD (evolved high rate packet data) is a protocol subset of cdm2000, which is the network. NOT EHRPD. HRPD is implemented in 1xRTT evolved networks such as EV-DO rev.0 and 1 in order to break from a switch based network to a packet based network. EHRPD is supposed to support hand-over from CDMA networks to LTE networks, however, Verizon hasn't widely implemented EHRPD so far as I can tell. I RARELY see a hand-off of an active data session back or forth from CDMA to LTE.
The only things that would really effect your speeds over a CDMA network would be the backing network of the base station (tower) or user base in the cell. I don't believe Verizon throttles that data. They certainly don't throttle data on LTE.
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Click to collapse
So are you saying EHRPD towers are similar to LTE towers? Or am I way the hell off?
ghstrdr1985 said:
So are you saying EHRPD towers are similar to LTE towers? Or am I way the hell off?
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Click to collapse
ehrpd resides in the towers with lte and helps with the handoff between going from 4g back to 3g. how many towers currently have it? I do not know, but I'd say not that many.
ghstrdr1985 said:
So are you saying EHRPD towers are similar to LTE towers? Or am I way the hell off?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm saying there's not such thing as an EHRPD tower. You've got CDMA towers and you've got LTE. These technologies are VERY different. Let me try to break this down. I probably should have explained it better above.
First, for the record, for cost considerations, LTE and CDMA for Verizon come off the same physical towers. There's not much point in erecting different towers for different antennas if they're still physical space on existing towers.
So... from the beginning...
Verizon runs to completely separate networks today. One is based on CDMA technology, one on LTE. Let me start first with CDMA.
CDMA, otherwise known as Code Division Multiple Access, is a method of physically transmitting a signal to and from a device. Verizon implements asynchronous CDMA to avoid issues with doppler shift in the signal frequency and speed of light delay from transmission to reception. CDMA is the radio access technology, NOT the protocol. The protocol is a patented technology known as cdma2000 and uses the CDMA radio access method as it's base layer.
cdma2000 is the protocol and encompasses a number of transmission protocols. Those would include IS-95, 1xRTT, 1xEV-DO, and the 1xEV-DO revisions 0, A, and B. To clarify, 1xEV-DO stands for single channel evolved-data optimized. EHRPD is a subset data transmission protocol of revision A of 1xEV-DO. I believe that Verizon didn't implement EHRPD very widely in it's deployment of EV-DO rev.A because at the point of first introduction their path of evolution was undecided. They very well could have moved on with EV-DO rev. B and attained speeds comparable to WiMax while being able to upgrade many of the existing CDMA handsets with new firmware to utilize the newer revision, just as had been done when rev. A came. One of the issues with cdma2000 is that the protocols aren't compatible. EV-DO used to stand for Evolution-Data Only, because data is all it does. When the devices is used for a voice call, it must switch protocol modes back to IS-95 to interface with the switch-based voice network on the backside of the tower. This is why CDMA devices cannot do data while in call.
LTE is a completely different technology altogether. It's an evolution of GSM, and accordingly, expands upon the basic technology of GSM. The base of GSM is TDMA, Time Division Multiple Access. Each device has a time slot that it's allowed to transmit or receive data on, usually a small fraction of a second. LTE also makes use of FDMA, Frequency Division Multiple Access, meaning that there are many frequencies that can be used to address different devices.
LTE makes uses of protocols, some similar to GSM protocols, to transmit and receive data. These are described in the LTE specification, and as time passes, additional LTE protocol specifications will be added, such as LTE Advance.
The goal of Verizon is to have a pure LTE network in the future. LTE is not simply a data transmission technology, but rather a full blown cellular standard just as GSM is, and as such can carry voice. When it does, voice will be basically VoIP, as LTE is a completely packet based technology and doesn't depend upon network switching (unlike IS-95 and 1xRTT, which is still the voice carrier technology supported by cdma2000). Carriers like this because it makes upgrading and scaling the network easier. The end result will be a more seamless user experience and the ability to integrate native voice features into data features of the device.
Modern LTE devices accomplish voice and data by using 2 different radios. In the Thunderbolt, that would be the CDMA radio built into the MSM8655 Soc processor and the MDM9600 LTE modem chip. Currently, this is the ONLY combination of chips that allows full simultaneous voice and data over the entire network. Unless the LTE chip of the devices handles both CDMA and LTE, AND can interlink with the SoC radio to manage SAR power limits, this will remain the case. Currently, only Qualcomm chipsets accomplish this, making the Thunderbolt the most functionally connected device ever sold on Verizon.
If anyone is interested in knowing more, let me know. I'll write up a bit more in-depth primer on these subjects and post it.
Thanks
Sorry, I did post this in the wrong forum, and as such I deserve some flaming lol.
I've been around here for a little while since jan 2011, it was just a brainfart.
I know I am connected to ehrpd because under about phone it says cdma - ehrpd
I'm just a little south, maybe 6 miles for the LTE market in Northern NJ, I was just wondering if anyone else in a 3G area experienced a similar slowdown.
I bought a 4G handset knowing it might be awhile before i get LTE, because I was concerned about being stuck in a tiered data plan when I upgraded to 4G, turned out not to be an issue, but I'm still happy I got it, it's a great phone
and I do use LTE occasionally like when to school.
Thanks for all the replies, and if theirs any other oddballs in a 3G area most of the time with a thunderbolt, let me know if you've experienced anything similair
loonatik78 said:
I'm saying there's not such thing as an EHRPD tower. You've got CDMA towers and you've got LTE. These technologies are VERY different. Let me try to break this down. I probably should have explained it better above.
First, for the record, for cost considerations, LTE and CDMA for Verizon come off the same physical towers. There's not much point in erecting different towers for different antennas if they're still physical space on existing towers.
So... from the beginning...
Verizon runs to completely separate networks today. One is based on CDMA technology, one on LTE. Let me start first with CDMA.
CDMA, otherwise known as Code Division Multiple Access, is a method of physically transmitting a signal to and from a device. Verizon implements asynchronous CDMA to avoid issues with doppler shift in the signal frequency and speed of light delay from transmission to reception. CDMA is the radio access technology, NOT the protocol. The protocol is a patented technology known as cdma2000 and uses the CDMA radio access method as it's base layer.
cdma2000 is the protocol and encompasses a number of transmission protocols. Those would include IS-95, 1xRTT, 1xEV-DO, and the 1xEV-DO revisions 0, A, and B. To clarify, 1xEV-DO stands for single channel evolved-data optimized. EHRPD is a subset data transmission protocol of revision A of 1xEV-DO. I believe that Verizon didn't implement EHRPD very widely in it's deployment of EV-DO rev.A because at the point of first introduction their path of evolution was undecided. They very well could have moved on with EV-DO rev. B and attained speeds comparable to WiMax while being able to upgrade many of the existing CDMA handsets with new firmware to utilize the newer revision, just as had been done when rev. A came. One of the issues with cdma2000 is that the protocols aren't compatible. EV-DO used to stand for Evolution-Data Only, because data is all it does. When the devices is used for a voice call, it must switch protocol modes back to IS-95 to interface with the switch-based voice network on the backside of the tower. This is why CDMA devices cannot do data while in call.
LTE is a completely different technology altogether. It's an evolution of GSM, and accordingly, expands upon the basic technology of GSM. The base of GSM is TDMA, Time Division Multiple Access. Each device has a time slot that it's allowed to transmit or receive data on, usually a small fraction of a second. LTE also makes use of FDMA, Frequency Division Multiple Access, meaning that there are many frequencies that can be used to address different devices.
LTE makes uses of protocols, some similar to GSM protocols, to transmit and receive data. These are described in the LTE specification, and as time passes, additional LTE protocol specifications will be added, such as LTE Advance.
The goal of Verizon is to have a pure LTE network in the future. LTE is not simply a data transmission technology, but rather a full blown cellular standard just as GSM is, and as such can carry voice. When it does, voice will be basically VoIP, as LTE is a completely packet based technology and doesn't depend upon network switching (unlike IS-95 and 1xRTT, which is still the voice carrier technology supported by cdma2000). Carriers like this because it makes upgrading and scaling the network easier. The end result will be a more seamless user experience and the ability to integrate native voice features into data features of the device.
Modern LTE devices accomplish voice and data by using 2 different radios. In the Thunderbolt, that would be the CDMA radio built into the MSM8655 Soc processor and the MDM9600 LTE modem chip. Currently, this is the ONLY combination of chips that allows full simultaneous voice and data over the entire network. Unless the LTE chip of the devices handles both CDMA and LTE, AND can interlink with the SoC radio to manage SAR power limits, this will remain the case. Currently, only Qualcomm chipsets accomplish this, making the Thunderbolt the most functionally connected device ever sold on Verizon.
If anyone is interested in knowing more, let me know. I'll write up a bit more in-depth primer on these subjects and post it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Man that is a mouthful. However, the Thunderbolt can talk & surf the web in 3G mode, not just LTE. So LTE will be a competition for GSM in the coming years?
Sent from my ADR6400L using xda premium
ghstrdr1985 said:
Man that is a mouthful. However, the Thunderbolt can talk & surf the web in 3G mode, not just LTE. So LTE will be a competition for GSM in the coming years?
Sent from my ADR6400L using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
it'll be the 4th generation of GSM (4g).
ghstrdr1985 said:
Man that is a mouthful. However, the Thunderbolt can talk & surf the web in 3G mode, not just LTE. So LTE will be a competition for GSM in the coming years?
Sent from my ADR6400L using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's what I said. Its because the Tbolt has 2 cdma radios.
loonatik78 said:
That's what I said. Its because the Tbolt has 2 cdma radios.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This phone has sooo much potential but is inhibited by Verizon.
Sent from my ADR6400L using xda premium
Related
I think this would be a terrible idea since i switched from t-mobile to sprint for better reception.
Check it out
http://www.afterdawn.com/news/archive/13839.cfm
P.S. Just realized that I posted this in the wrong section. Mods please feel free to move to the appropriate catagory.
if they do it will suck but i hope they switch to sim cards
Even if T-Mobile's parent company buys Sprint, they will never change the existing technology. If the deal happens, I bet they don't even change the name. Just because the parent company of T-Mobile buys Sprint doesn't mean that Sprint goes away completely and all your handsets now say T-Mobile...it just means you'll be forking over your paychecks to a different money hungry conglomerate.
I.E., Sprint will never use SIM cards, nor will they switch over to GSM...that is until maybe 2010 when LTE gets rolled out, but that's a horse of a different color.
I hope they dont switch to the sim cards those are jus easy ways for someone to steal your expensive pda
coming from T-Mobile to verizon I love the extra data speed but I hate that VZW using CDMA (i.e. no SIM cards) because I travel around the world extensively and stupid CDMA means I have to have a different phone (and number) on a GSM phone so i can use it overseas.
CDMA might be great here in the US, but it sucks everywhere else in the world. GSM might be older technology, but I have never found a country yet that my old nokia gsm phone doesn't work immediately as soon as I step out of the plane.
Why cant people just get along and all start using the SAME technology all round the world.
(I am not originally from the USA, so don't get me started on PAL vs NTSC or ATSC vs DVB. I cant get any AV equipment from OS to work here in USA or vice versa - forgetting even about the voltage difference!!!)
Ya, unfortunately CDMA really is the best option here in the US. Hopefully with Verizon going LTE for 4G we will see more convergence with global standards. And even if GSM is older than CDMA voice channel technology, HSDPA gives up nothing to it's CDMA counterparts (EVDO Rev A). How many 7.2 or 14.4 mbps EVDO networks are opperating in the states? Zero.
See that's the thing though...sadly GSM networks in the U.S. suck the proverbial big one when it comes to voice quality. As I said in my previous post, I have my fingers crossed that when LTE is rolled out in a few years, it fixes a lot of the problems here in the good ol' US of A.
bedoig said:
Ya, unfortunately CDMA really is the best option here in the US. Hopefully with Verizon going LTE for 4G we will see more convergence with global standards. And even if GSM is older than CDMA voice channel technology, HSDPA gives up nothing to it's CDMA counterparts (EVDO Rev A). How many 7.2 or 14.4 mbps EVDO networks are opperating in the states? Zero.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is LTE the natural progression path for both CDMA and GSM? If that would be the case then things are looking up for equipment compatibility.
gc, Agree though that in US, CDMA really is king - for now.
I don't buy what the articles says about Sprint users having to get GSM phones...
more than Half the value of sprint assets is in the infrastructure they have built, Not the actual subscribers who use that infrastructure.
What is more likely is that T-Mobile will add GSM support to the existing Sprint towers so that their coverage is better but keep the CDMA business since that is the one most prevelant in the US and the one most likely to generate additional revenues based on relay calls from other CDMA carriers.
At some point the phone industry has to start building dual format phones for those who need both GSM for overseas and CDMA for US use.
gcincotta said:
See that's the thing though...sadly GSM networks in the U.S. suck the proverbial big one when it comes to voice quality.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ah, I didn't know voice quality on GSM networks was any lower. I've only been on Sprint and Verizon myself.
maccaberry said:
Is LTE the natural progression path for both CDMA and GSM?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To my knowledge, LTE is actually unrelated and incompatible with any existing CDMA or GSM technologies. It would be a new from the ground up system. LTE seems to be the path that the global standard will take though, and since GSM (and its related data protocols) is currently the global standard, the two are often associated.
Asphyx said:
At some point the phone industry has to start building dual format phones for those who need both GSM for overseas and CDMA for US use.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There are a few (mostly Blackberries I think) but they are nothing that I particularly care for.
I dont know where they came up with sprint switching to gsm,my guess is the article was written by a gsm fanboy. Eventually of course,they would want to transition everyone onto a single network.A model for this is the sprint-nextel merger. Sprint still runs an IDEN network along side their CDMA netowork. In that case there were reasons to keep IDEN around,since PTT did not really work well over their data network. (I understand that EVDO rev A has QOS features that make it work better)
If sprint ends up merging with T-Mobile,I expect that something similar might happen. T-Mobile does not have nearly as good of data coverage as Sprint does. (Although I have heard rumors of HSPDA coming to T-Mobile,but havent really looked into it that much) For the time being they would run both networks. Its possible that they might actually convert the whole network to CDMA instead of GSM due to the fact that sprints network seems to be more developed.
In that case,they would probably stop selling new GSM handsets. When a customer wanted to upgrade their handset,they would have to get a CDMA unit. Eventually,there would be very few GSM users left,all of which would have older handsets. They would then offer those last few new handsets and discontinue GSM service. Other carriers have done exactly this in the past. I imagine that roaming agreements with at&t would actually allow them to turn off their gsm towers before they had transitioned those last few customers to CDMA. At the end of the day,they of course get those last customers to sign new contracts,a win for Sprint-Mobile.( T-Sprint? S-Moprint?)
Similarly,if they decided to go to GSM,they would have to wait untill a HSPDA network was ready. The transition would go the same way.
To my knowledge, LTE is actually unrelated and incompatible with any existing CDMA or GSM technologies. It would be a new from the ground up system. LTE seems to be the path that the global standard will take though, and since GSM (and its related data protocols) is currently the global standard, the two are often associated.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is untrue. LTE (Long Term Evolution) is the code name given to the project that the 3GPP is currently working on for their 4G standard (Release 8), and is aimed towards improving the current UMTS standard. The outcome will be modifications or extensions to UMTS, not a brand new system. The architecture we will likely see will be E-UTRAN (built off of existing UTRAN) standing for Evolved UTRAN which is on the access side, and EPC (Evolved Packet Core) on the core side, which make up the EPS architecture (Evolved Packet System).
Verizon has already announced they will be using "LTE" as their standard instead of UMB which is the successor in the CDMA2000 family. AT&T will also be using it as their 4G standard, but will provide HSUPA and HSPA+ as bridge standards.
Now, as of right now, Sprint on the other hand has announced they will be using WiMAX as their 4G standard. IF the Sprint - T-Mobile merger happens, we will not be seeing Sprint customers walking around with GSM handsets, instead we will see both Sprint and T-Mobile customers walking around with either full WiMAX handsets, or if they choose to, dual CDMA + WiMAX handsets.
gcincotta said:
This is untrue. LTE (Long Term Evolution) is the code name given to the project that the 3GPP is currently working on for their 4G standard (Release 8), and is aimed towards improving the current UMTS standard. The outcome will be modifications or extensions to UMTS, not a brand new system. The architecture we will likely see will be E-UTRAN (built off of existing UTRAN) standing for Evolved UTRAN which is on the access side, and EPC (Evolved Packet Core) on the core side, which make up the EPS architecture (Evolved Packet System).
Verizon has already announced they will be using "LTE" as their standard instead of UMB which is the successor in the CDMA2000 family. AT&T will also be using it as their 4G standard, but will provide HSUPA and HSPA+ as bridge standards.
Now, as of right now, Sprint on the other hand has announced they will be using WiMAX as their 4G standard. IF the Sprint - T-Mobile merger happens, we will not be seeing Sprint customers walking around with GSM handsets, instead we will see both Sprint and T-Mobile customers walking around with either full WiMAX handsets, or if they choose to, dual CDMA + WiMAX handsets.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's interesting. I was under the impression that although LTE was an evolution of current standards, in practice there would not be backwards compatibility with existing networks. I could very well be wrong, so please provide some evidence to the contrary (no wikipedia please).
Also, I believe that Sprint is second guessing their position on WiMax. They may still go forward with that technology, but I think (based on conversations with people from Sprint) they are evaluating other options now as well.
http://www.gsacom.com/news/gsa_240.php4
http://www.3gpp.org/Highlights/LTE/lte.htm
http://www.engadget.com/2008/04/04/verizon-announces-700mhz-lte-plans-can-you-wait-3-years/
http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/ATT-Plans-2008-3G-Expansion-91637
Thanks for the links.
While it appears that most networks will support both LTE and legacy technologies concurrently, the two are not interchangeable. A strictly LTE device wouldn't function on an HSDPA/HSUPA/UMTS/GSM network, and vice versa.
From the first link: "...co-existence with GSM/EDGE/UMTS systems..."
The two will not interfere with each other, and they can even be run from the same tower, but that is as far as it goes. They are still totally seperate technologies.
This is illustrated further in the second link you provided: "Co-existence in the same geographical area and co-location with GERAN/UTRAN on adjacent channels." The two cannot operate simultaneously on the same channel. Towers that support both LTE and existing technologies will be able to hand off the connection from one to the other though:
"E-UTRAN terminals supporting also UTRAN and/or GERAN operation should be able to support measurement of, and handover from and to, both 3GPP UTRAN and 3GPP GERAN."
"The interruption time during a handover of real-time services between E-UTRAN and UTRAN (or GERAN) should be less than 300 msec."
This supports my original statement. I may have been overly broad in saying that LTE is completely unrelated to existing technologies. There are undoubtebly some similarities, but the radio technology is radically different than anything currently used.
In practice, I would assume most devices will support both systems until 3G (and earlier) technologies are completely phased out. It would be a similar situation if Sprint decides to deploy a WiMAX network. The first WiMAX devices that appear would naturally support Sprint's existing networks as well as WiMAX. The device may operate on both WiMAX and EVDO, and may even be able to seemlessly hand off between the two, but that doesn't mean they are related.
You seem to be forgetting the original question you were answering though. One of the posters had asked if LTE is the natural progression path for CDMA and GSM networks. You answered him by stating that it is completely unrelated and is a completely new system altogether. I corrected you by saying that it is untrue as LTE is the natural progression path for GSM/UMTS/HSDPA networks as it is wholly based off current UMTS networks. I then went on to say that Verizon opted to vary off their natural progression path towards UMB instead by choosing to adopt LTE.
Though the radio/network infrastructures will be different, current GSM/UMTS/HSDPA providers will continue to support GSM/UMTS/HSDPA alongside LTE as it is their natural progression path. I wasn't trying to say that a GSM handset would simply work fine when trying to use a PURE LTE network. Providers will not just wake up one day and pull down all existing architecture completely expecting everyone to go buy a new PURE LTE handset. Just like when digital networks first came out, analog stayed around for a WHILE before they pulled it down...and handsets had BOTH analog and digital capabilities.
gcincotta said:
LTE is the natural progression path for GSM/UMTS/HSDPA networks as it is wholly based off current UMTS networks. I then went on to say that Verizon opted to vary off their natural progression path towards UMB instead by choosing to adopt LTE.
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Click to collapse
I agree that I may have oversimplified by calling them completely unrelated, but I think it is a bit of a misnomer to call LTE the natural progression path for one and not the other. Implementation of LTE will require a rollout of completely new network infrastructure. It is not merely an update to existing UMTS hardware. The two protocols have virtually nothing to do with each other, other than the fact that they were both introduced by the same regulatory body. It is the same thing with UMB. Just because CDMA and UMB were both developed by Qualcomm, doesn't imply a great deal of similarity or interoperability. UMB is only considered the natural progression of CDMA (as LTE is to UMTS) because they are both sanctioned by the same group. I don't think it is any more of a natural progression for an existing UMTS network to implement LTE than for Verizon, as both will have to roll out entirely new systems. The only difference would be that Verizon's network would be a mixture of CDMA and LTE, while the global standard would be a mixture of GSM/UMTS and LTE.
It looks like you are definetly right about Sprint going WiMAX. The Sprint/Clearwire deal that had previously fallen through is now back on. Several other companies like Intel, Google, and Time Warner are now investing in the deal as well. WiMAX it is.
bedoig said:
It looks like you are definetly right about Sprint going WiMAX. The Sprint/Clearwire deal that had previously fallen through is now back on. Several other companies like Intel, Google, and Time Warner are now investing in the deal as well. WiMAX it is.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well.. there goes standardization down the toilet..
I think they do it deliberately so we can't port or devices from one carrier to another.
Yeah you'd think Sprint would smarten up too when they see every other top carrier in the U.S. choosing LTE as their 4G solution...
I recently saw that the HTC Thunderbolt will support simultaneous 1X Voice and EV-DO Data (SVDO 3G). Does anybody know if existing phones such as the Fascinate can support this?
I don't think fascinate does that.
I believe the phone requires special hardware to be able to support SVDO, which the Fascinate probably lacks.
Possibly, but we're likely missing a crap load of software that would be required for it to work, and potentially hardware. Feel free to look into getting it to work on our phones as well. I'm sure many people would like to know how it's done.
Isn't this one of the perks of being on GSM network? Afaik, LTE is a GSM technology, and therefore would support SVDO.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App
SVDO means that the phone supports simultaneous 1x voice and EVDO data. Has nothing to do with LTE as far as I know.
papstar said:
Isn't this one of the perks of being on GSM network? Afaik, LTE is a GSM technology, and therefore would support SVDO.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, this is called SVDO, basically it take's two radio's so it can run 1X which is the CDMA2000 voice standard and EVDO which is the CDMA2000's 3G evolution and run both at the same time which previous radio's couldn't. Nothing to do with LTE.
Also LTE isn't GSM, it's an evolution of UMTS. GSM cannot do simultaneous voice and data, only 3G UMTS/HSPA can achieve that.
No, at the moment the thunderbolt is the only phone on verizon capable of SDVO.
SO, I have a Samsung Focus and I have a HTC Titan (both AT&T Branded). I also have a AT&T 3g Microcell.
BTW, Has anyone seen an AT&T Titan show 3G at all or anything other than 4G?
Anyways... Here is where the AT&T Titan lies about 4G service.... the 3G Microcell only support a maximum of UMTS. It does not support HSDPA, HSUPA, HSPA, HSPA+, or LTE. Only HSPA+ & LTE are official 4G technologies as classified by the ITU.
On my girlfriends and my phone (when attached to the microcell) it shows 4G (we both have Titans). And Yes, I am positive we are on the microcell since both our phones list AT&T Microcell as the carrier.
I think AT&T is starting to pull one over on people with the Titan. Wish I had a Focus S to verify what it says too....
It has been reported that ATT is branding some H devices as 4G, not even H+... but the Titan is indeed H+. I haven't been very far with my Titan yet, so I wouldn't know if it ever shows 3G.
I may be a bit confused with the network types; to my understanding there is
GSM
Edge
3G
H
H+ (aka '4G')
4G LTE
My HTC Titan has shown E for the Edge network as it has also displayed 4G for HSPA + as well.
link68759 said:
It has been reported that ATT is branding some H devices as 4G, not even H+... but the Titan is indeed H+. I haven't been very far with my Titan yet, so I wouldn't know if it ever shows 3G.
I may be a bit confused with the network types; to my understanding there is
GSM
Edge
3G
H
H+ (aka '4G')
4G LTE
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know the Titan does have the HSPA+ capability, that was not my gripe. My grip is that AT&T is listing a true 3G network as 4G which is a bold faced lie altogether and causes us to question if we truely are on 4G or not. Not the fact the device support it or not.
SO, all these throttling threads and stuff about 4G can not use the Titan as a testing source as the tester can not trust if they truely are on 4G or not. Thus skewing true testing results and perceived capabilities.
I live in Las Vegas and AT&T has had HSPA+ for a while and recently LTE. The issue I have, is I can't tell which network I am on wether it be 3G, HSPA+ or LTE since the Titan always will show 4G for all of them.
As added info for you about network types, your 3G disgnation is the same as the network types that I listed. 3G Network types include (In order of evolution):
UMTS - True Desgination for 3G
HSDPA - 3.x
HSUPA - 3.x
HSPA - 3.x
The 3.x is where I am not sure about the history of their release but I know one of them was refered to 3.5g before the true 4g designation came out for HSPA+ & LTE.
I don't think the titan has lte support, so you're definitely not on that.
The best way to go about this I guess is finding the diagnostic menu: where you dial some number and it gives you hidden info and options.
Sent from my PI39100 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
AT&T GoPhone Service here with X310e from Europe, it stay on H all the time, displayed as "3G" sometime.
maybe the way they display the icon on the Europe Phone is different.
Anyone confirm as H is HSPDA+?
BTW, i don't download torrent on my phone either.
Its not exactly a lie. Yes, 4G is now the old 3G. When the other carriers started calling their service 4G, it made AT&Ts service look slower (when reality is that ATT 3G was the fastest).
4G was supposed to be LTE, but the marketing departments screwed that one by trying to one-up each other.
So, the answer is that where you saw 3G previously, you will now see 4G.
I have two microcells and they both show 4G on my Titan as well.
Blame the marketing departments (at all the carriers) for using the 4G moniker where it did not belong.
LTE will hopefully be LTE.
I've seen E, H & 4G on my at&t Titan
You see H? That's a good sign, at least; we can differentiate from E, H and H+. My town is fairly rural and is also a historical district, so I find it extremely suspect that there is 4G wherever I've gone, but I guess we've somehow become modern.
I have also never seen "H", only E and 4G, but I've only been in 3 small towns since I've had my Titan. My "4G" speeds are very 3G-like too... (between 1-2Mbps down and .75Mbps up)
Is there any way to see more detailed radio information in the OS? I dont really trust the indicator at the top of the screen.
As someone quoted the ITU designations. In their final decission it was declared that only technologies being theoretically able to reach speeds of up to 100 Mbps are actually 4G.
This means that WiMax, LTE and HSPA+ don't qualify as 4G. Currently LTE Advanced and WiMax 2 would be the only ones.
The idea of calling HSPA+ 4G as far as I know originates from T-Mobile USA as they are not about to deploy LTE/Wimax anytime soon.
That's even beyond the point. Didn't ATT say HSPA+ users should see actual speeds of around 6Mbps? Many aren't even getting the upper range of "3G" speeds.
I just got off the phone with ATT CS and he did tell me I am NOT in a 4G area, even though my phone is saying so. He told me the nearest 4G area was about 20 minutes south, which is exactly what their data map shows. From that I take that ATT is just calling their 3G network 4G, at least on this phone.
StevieBallz said:
As someone quoted the ITU designations. In their final decission it was declared that only technologies being theoretically able to reach speeds of up to 100 Mbps are actually 4G.
This means that WiMax, LTE and HSPA+ don't qualify as 4G. Currently LTE Advanced and WiMax 2 would be the only ones.
The idea of calling HSPA+ 4G as far as I know originates from T-Mobile USA as they are not about to deploy LTE/Wimax anytime soon.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is false, the ITU adjusted this decision and enveloped HSPA+, Wimax and LTE into the 4G fold.
"As the most advanced technologies currently defined for global wireless mobile broadband communications, IMT-Advanced is considered as '4G,' although it is recognized that this term, while undefined, may also be applied to the forerunners of these technologies, LTE and WiMax, and to other evolved 3G technologies providing a substantial level of improvement in performance and capabilities with respect to the initial third generation systems now deployed,"
http://www.itu.int/net/pressoffice/press_releases/2010/48.aspx
In relation to this post, I have used my Interop Unlocked Focus all around this area and home. On my Focus I enabled the ability for it to show 3G+ areas and I was able to map out areas that were E, G, 3G and 3G+
However, when I trek those same areas with my Titan, I see a somewhat magical "4G" over all 3G and 3G+ areas.
Whether these areas were all H+ capable the whole time is unsure, but somehow I tend to doubt it.
As of yet, I have never seen 3G but I have seen E and G on my Titan.
link68759 said:
I don't think the titan has lte support, so you're definitely not on that.
The best way to go about this I guess is finding the diagnostic menu: where you dial some number and it gives you hidden info and options.
Sent from my PI39100 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I just tried that on my Titan by dialing ##3282#, and all the diagnostics are for 3G, HSDPA, no item for HSPDA+, still on screen my phone shows 4G.
arg... is there any way to infiltrate ATT's customer support and actually talk to an engineer, no tricks or PR crap?
I just thought that I'd chime in and say that my HTC Titan shows "3G" when I am at my place of work in Franklin Lakes, NJ.... so it must say 3G for some networks at least.
Do you have an unlocked international phone or an ATT phone?
Is there a Registry Editor for the Titan yet? If so, I wonder if you can change the 4G to what you want it to be like you can on the Samsung Focus? On the Focus, you have the option to change each individual network to show whatever you want it to show.
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Microsoft\Connectivity \CellularUx\DataConnectionIcon
6G Speeds on Samsung Focus
Using ATT's methods, I've modified my Samsung Focus to receive 6G Speeds. Yes, this is the SAME method ATT uses to get 4G speeds...
They just edit the Registry like I did.
hello all,
I was wondering whether it is possible to unlock the LTE radio on the Eu retail version. I think the chipset is the same and hence it does have the capability.
Thanks in advance,
Santanu Dey
Are you saying that your razr never gets 4G / HSDPA signal?
Don't you ever get the little 'H' on your connection indicator?
CheesySeb said:
Are you saying that your razr never gets 4G / HSDPA signal?
Don't you ever get the little 'H' on your connection indicator?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not even LTE is 4G. It is called such for pure marketing speculation since LTE is still part of UMTS... it is its 8th revision, actually.
Cheesy, you should first ask your provider if they reach ~325Mbps. Vodafone, the european carrier with the best network, sells 48Mbps (HSPA++) as LTE, which isn't really.
LTE isn't yet fully ratified, actually.
Anyway, it works
For general information:
LTE is Long Term Evolution.
HSPA or High speed packet access and its derivatives are not LTE...
The modulation scheme is different as well as the coding and spectrum and Bandwidth. LTE works in 2 variations TDD and FDD, whereas HSPA/UMTS is purely FDD. Secondly, LTE works in 1.4Mhz, 5 MHz, 10Mhz , 20Mhz Bandwidth whereas HSPA/UMTS is only 5 Mhz.
Basically HSPA is a evolution of data access on UMTS network, as EDGE was in GSM network.
So , returning back to the same question..... Can we unlock LTE radio on the Razr? My operator Telia is already having commercial LTE network (300/100 Mbps DL)..
Beg my pardon I was not aware ( haven't done quite as much research as you guys it would seem ;D )
Can I just ask briefly, is LTE a cdma standard as opposed to gsm or is it something viable on both platforms?
LTE is basically a convergent network between the CDMA and the GSM domains. The radio standard has been designed in such a way that it shares the backward compatibility towards CDMA and GSM domains..."BUT".. LTE is much more bent toward the GSM/WCDMA domain than CDMA/EVDO domains,since it shares the same spectral characteristics of the UMTS networks.
WIMAX on the other hand is more bent towards CDMA/EVDO domains...
Hi I'm just wondering there's a mode called High speed LTE mode in my setting i'm just wondering is it the same eith VoLTE or not(?) if so can anyone explain to me the difference?
To save a redirect...
We set out to clarify technical jargons in simple terms so that average smartphone users can make sense of it all, and be well-informed when buying a smart phone and/or a signal booster kit for it. 4G and LTE are closely-related technologies. However, despite what some people think, and despite the impression some networks try to give – they are not one and the same thing. But then what are the differences, and how much do they matter? The first step in answering these questions is to determine what exactly the two terms mean.
What is 4G?
4G is the 4th Generation of mobile internet connectivity, and refers to mobile internet networks that are able to offer certain speeds. These speed criteria were first defined in 2008, long before they were realistic, as something for mobile networks to aspire to, in developing the next generation of internet connectivity.
On-the-go, a network has to offer peak speeds of no less than 100 Mbps to qualify as 4G. In more stable applications, such as stationary hotspots, peak speeds must reach at least 1Gbps. While these speeds may have been nothing more than future targets when they were first set, new technologies have allowed 4G-compliant networks to be rolled out, and some older 3G networks to be improved to offer 4G speeds. However, even so reliably achieving 4G standards proved a bit more difficult than anticipated, and this is where LTE comes in.
What is LTE?
LTE is 4G – in a sense. It stands for Long Term Evolution, and refers not to a single technology but to the processes, developments, and set of technologies used to try to bring about 4G speeds. As it proved more difficult than expected to actually bring about 4G speeds, regulators decided that LTE networks which offered a significant improvement over 3G speeds would be eligible for labelling as 4G even if they did not meet the speeds originally set as 4G standards.
This was a decision companies were quick to take advantage of, and a lot of the time when your phone claims to have 4G reception it is actually connected to an LTE network. This is 4G in a sense thanks to the regulator's decision, but it isn't true 4G in that it does not really meet 4G speed standards. LTE mobile devices are typically capable of CAT4 speeds (Category 4 speeds) and can reach a theoretical speed of 150 Mbps (Mega-Byte Per Second).
What is LTE+ (or LTE Plus) and LTE-A (or LTE Advanced)
LTE+ and LTE-A are exactly the same - The terms are used interchangeably because some carriers in some countries decided to use one or the other for no particular reason. This technology is basically based on the basic LTE platform discussed above, except that the data transfer speeds are triple or even more faster than LTE.
Availability of Plus or Advanced LTE in mobile equipment (smartphones and tablets) is increasing steadily as more manufacturers are manufacturing their flagship or higher end devices that are capable of it (Samsung Galaxy S6 Edge being a prime example). LTE mobile devices are typically capable of CAT6 speeds (Category 6 speeds) and can reach a theoretical speed of 300 Mbps.
The coverage of Advanced or Plus LTE is also gradually increasing as more cellular service providers such as Verizon, T-Mobile, AT&T, Sprint in USA and Bell, Telus, Rogers in Canada are expanding their coverage offering these incredibly high data transfer speeds outside of major cities in USA and Canada, respectively. North American mobile service providers have started this trend of starting with the largest cities first, and then aggressively building their Advanced or Plus LTE networks to support remaining vast areas of their respective coverage areas within their respective countries.
Do the Differences Matter?
In an everyday sense, the differences probably don't matter very much. Most of our signal boosters are also 4G capable (forward to 5G capable and backward to 2G & 3G compatible) whereas all of our commercial boosters are 5G/ 4G LTE compatible. There is not a hugely noticeable gap in speeds between 4G LTE and true 4G networks, and due to time and location variances, these networks will often offer virtually identical speeds. LTE Advanced or LTE Plus on the other hand, offer considerably faster wireless data transfer speeds which may be very helpful if one performs a lot of Internet activities such as frequent downloads, etc. on their mobile devices using their mobile networks. However, it is important to note that in order to take advantage of those higher speeds, the mobile devices have to be capable of those higher speeds and the cellular provider has to have that Advanced or Plus network available in areas of mobile use.
There can be something of a difference when it comes to buying signal boosting equipment. If you are buying a signal booster or repeater with the intention of extending a type of LTE or 4G reception, for example, then you will probably want the one that has "4G" included in its name or description. We sell 4G signal boosters that are compatible with both true 4G, LTE, and LTE Advanced/ Plus networks so you will be covered for all because they are backward compatible, all the way down to 3G and 2G. Now you know the differences between 4G LTE LTE+ and LTE Advanced!
miffymiffy said:
To save a redirect...
We set out to clarify technical jargons in simple terms so that average smartphone users can make sense of it all, and be well-informed when buying a smart phone and/or a signal booster kit for it. 4G and LTE are closely-related technologies. However, despite what some people think, and despite the impression some networks try to give – they are not one and the same thing. But then what are the differences, and how much do they matter? The first step in answering these questions is to determine what exactly the two terms mean.
What is 4G?
4G is the 4th Generation of mobile internet connectivity, and refers to mobile internet networks that are able to offer certain speeds. These speed criteria were first defined in 2008, long before they were realistic, as something for mobile networks to aspire to, in developing the next generation of internet connectivity.
On-the-go, a network has to offer peak speeds of no less than 100 Mbps to qualify as 4G. In more stable applications, such as stationary hotspots, peak speeds must reach at least 1Gbps. While these speeds may have been nothing more than future targets when they were first set, new technologies have allowed 4G-compliant networks to be rolled out, and some older 3G networks to be improved to offer 4G speeds. However, even so reliably achieving 4G standards proved a bit more difficult than anticipated, and this is where LTE comes in.
What is LTE?
LTE is 4G – in a sense. It stands for Long Term Evolution, and refers not to a single technology but to the processes, developments, and set of technologies used to try to bring about 4G speeds. As it proved more difficult than expected to actually bring about 4G speeds, regulators decided that LTE networks which offered a significant improvement over 3G speeds would be eligible for labelling as 4G even if they did not meet the speeds originally set as 4G standards.
This was a decision companies were quick to take advantage of, and a lot of the time when your phone claims to have 4G reception it is actually connected to an LTE network. This is 4G in a sense thanks to the regulator's decision, but it isn't true 4G in that it does not really meet 4G speed standards. LTE mobile devices are typically capable of CAT4 speeds (Category 4 speeds) and can reach a theoretical speed of 150 Mbps (Mega-Byte Per Second).
What is LTE+ (or LTE Plus) and LTE-A (or LTE Advanced)
LTE+ and LTE-A are exactly the same - The terms are used interchangeably because some carriers in some countries decided to use one or the other for no particular reason. This technology is basically based on the basic LTE platform discussed above, except that the data transfer speeds are triple or even more faster than LTE.
Availability of Plus or Advanced LTE in mobile equipment (smartphones and tablets) is increasing steadily as more manufacturers are manufacturing their flagship or higher end devices that are capable of it (Samsung Galaxy S6 Edge being a prime example). LTE mobile devices are typically capable of CAT6 speeds (Category 6 speeds) and can reach a theoretical speed of 300 Mbps.
The coverage of Advanced or Plus LTE is also gradually increasing as more cellular service providers such as Verizon, T-Mobile, AT&T, Sprint in USA and Bell, Telus, Rogers in Canada are expanding their coverage offering these incredibly high data transfer speeds outside of major cities in USA and Canada, respectively. North American mobile service providers have started this trend of starting with the largest cities first, and then aggressively building their Advanced or Plus LTE networks to support remaining vast areas of their respective coverage areas within their respective countries.
Do the Differences Matter?
In an everyday sense, the differences probably don't matter very much. Most of our signal boosters are also 4G capable (forward to 5G capable and backward to 2G & 3G compatible) whereas all of our commercial boosters are 5G/ 4G LTE compatible. There is not a hugely noticeable gap in speeds between 4G LTE and true 4G networks, and due to time and location variances, these networks will often offer virtually identical speeds. LTE Advanced or LTE Plus on the other hand, offer considerably faster wireless data transfer speeds which may be very helpful if one performs a lot of Internet activities such as frequent downloads, etc. on their mobile devices using their mobile networks. However, it is important to note that in order to take advantage of those higher speeds, the mobile devices have to be capable of those higher speeds and the cellular provider has to have that Advanced or Plus network available in areas of mobile use.
There can be something of a difference when it comes to buying signal boosting equipment. If you are buying a signal booster or repeater with the intention of extending a type of LTE or 4G reception, for example, then you will probably want the one that has "4G" included in its name or description. We sell 4G signal boosters that are compatible with both true 4G, LTE, and LTE Advanced/ Plus networks so you will be covered for all because they are backward compatible, all the way down to 3G and 2G. Now you know the differences between 4G LTE LTE+ and LTE Advanced!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wow thank you soo much for the information
i canstill achieve speeds of 120mpbs without high speed LTE however