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In January I was excited about comming new official AKU 3.3 and then nothing happen (officially AKU 3.3.1 is not formal update as is not posted on HTC website, thou 1.35 SA also in not official upgrade but found in new HTC TyTN's), now they are telling us about WM6 upgrade path - well I think that right now they might be right. Why?
3.3 release was affected by Vista release, and as most of you know Vista is not best platform to launch upgrade for our device. What to do? Company play stupid and they test release first OS then current 2.11 SA via people who are contributing in various internet forums. Of course only XP ready, meanwhile they tried to workaround Vista installing, but as usual with MS it is not ready for major support at begining (just got Vista Resource Kit - almost 3 months after release).
So what they can do for angry customers? Give them a bone - official WM6. Of cource MS might give them it for discounted price for suffering with Vista, but it also is in MS plans to do it. Boost sales of Office 2007 and Exchange 2007. That is why I do belive that now upgrade will come at last.
What do you think about this?
BTW. I wan't change TyTN until new device with HSUPA and UMTS 900 and UMTS 2100/1700 will be in sales. I would like also GSM 400/450 but probably it want happen.
Pawlisko said:
What do you think about this?
BTW. I wan't change TyTN until new device with HSUPA and UMTS 900 and UMTS 2100/1700 will be in sales. I would like also GSM 400/450 but probably it want happen.
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FLOO FLA FLOO... sorry, what?
Pawlisko said:
So what they can do for angry customers? Give them a bone - official WM6. Of cource MS might give them it for discounted price for suffering with Vista, but it also is in MS plans to do it. Boost sales of Office 2007 and Exchange 2007. That is why I do belive that now upgrade will come at last.
What do you think about this?
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You're right. M$ is providing WM6 free to the OEMs/ODMs because they want more sales of their core products -- Vista, Office 2007 and Exchange 2007. The OEM/ODM can pass on that incentive to the customer if they wish.
I am not saying that HTC won't come to their senses and actually do this (they seem to be saying that they will), but given their track record, I'm not holding my breath waiting for them to do it. The sad state of affairs is that they don't care much for the TyTN et al, they are already working on the next gen (Kaiser) which will be the source of revenue for them this year. They want you to upgrade to Kaiser and toss your Hermes. Too bad for people that bought Hermes devices from a service provider on a three year contract.
And really, who cares that HTC will be issuing an "official" WM6 upgrade sometime this year -- we already have excellent fully working WM6 ROMs on our devices thanks to JJ, walshieau, CUSTEL, LVSW, and others. As far as I am concerned, they burnt their bridges with me.
John
johnburn said:
they are already working on the next gen (Kaiser) which will be the source of revenue for them this year. They want you to upgrade to Kaiser and toss your Hermes.
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I was waiting for the Kaiser simply for WM6. For me my Magician did pretty much all I wanted. But then I relented and got a Hermes and upgraded the ROM instead!
@olipro - well this is part where technology take place
HSUPA - High Speed Upload Packet Access - gives you upload speed up to 2.1 Mbps. Together with HSDPA gives HSPA - 3.75G network.
UMTS 900 - 3G in 900 MHz. There are talks right now in France that some operators want to move from GSM technology in 900 MHz to UMTS in same spectrum. It gives no state licensing fees (they have 900 MHz spectrum to convert) and coverate UMTS at 900 MHz gives bigger coverage area per network tower.
UMTS 2100/1700 is US T-Mobile version of UMTS. It differs from worldwide that download is in 2100 MHz spectrum (same everywhere) but upload utilizes 1700 MHz spectrum (in worldwide wersion 1900 MHz which in US is in use by T-Mobile GSM service and Cingular GSM/UMTS service).
GSM 400/450/480 is GSM service in 400-500 MHz band right now new spectrum from GSM to be used in less populated areas. Currently in use i.e. in Tanzania, but there is need for this. I read report that AUS operators press on this to cover interior part of Australia.
My goal is to have most versitle device I can have. I do not know where I will work tomorrow so I have to be ready - Windows Mobile is great platfrom but I need powerfull hardware for it.
@johnburn - well let me tell you that i was thinking about it but...
a) HTC gave written statement - if it was boogus thay would say that it is not true, so we may assume that it is true. Good lawer can win big money for not holding to companys word - especally when it is written.
b) why I like official version then modified? Because I will not lose warranty, using custom made OS I may. Of course after warranty period - what the hell but untill then only official versions.
c) Kaiser - well I do not think that it will kill Hermes - geographical diversiffication. HTC will sale Kaiser in Western Europe / US / Japan / AUS but there are many places where HTC will still could sale TyTN with profit - Eastern Europe / South America / etc.
@The_Hawk - good for you, if you are waiting for new version/model you will never buy anything
Pawlisko said:
a) HTC gave written statement - if it was boogus thay would say that it is not true, so we may assume that it is true. Good lawer can win big money for not holding to companys word - especally when it is written.
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Can a lawyer (good, bad or otherwise) actually prove the letter came from HTC? Notice that it came from an Italian website. It is not on HTC's web sites, at least, I can't find it there.
I have no doubt that HTC will eventually issue WM6 upgrades to some or all of its current devices and likely for free -- they'd be foolish if they didn't, seeing as everyone else is. I'd be astonished if it actually happened at the end of April (which year, they didn't say?) Their track record isn't very good in this regard (OK, its atrocious!). If this is true, then the only thing I can think of is that they have finally been beaten by the ROM cookers on this site and are doing this to attempt to regain control.
Your other points are valid, except that the warranty point is moot for people like myself that bought an HTC-branded TyTN without a warranty (because we went through third parties that weren't authorized to sell HTC product to end users).
John
johnburn said:
Can a lawyer (good, bad or otherwise) actually prove the letter came from HTC? Notice that it came from an Italian website. It is not on HTC's web sites, at least, I can't find it there.
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Well it has all the information needed from corporate paper - except date. I think that this is internal document prepared for later use. Date: Xx April, 2007 is the key. We have got many connection here with HTC - may somebody ask for authenticity?
johnburn said:
I have no doubt that HTC will eventually issue WM6 upgrades to some or all of its current devices and likely for free -- they'd be foolish if they didn't, seeing as everyone else is. I'd be astonished if it actually happened at the end of April (which year, they didn't say?) Their track record isn't very good in this regard (OK, its atrocious!). If this is true, then the only thing I can think of is that they have finally been beaten by the ROM cookers on this site and are doing this to attempt to regain control.
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Click to collapse
As I read this document WM6 will come out no earlier then June.
johnburn said:
Your other points are valid, except that the warranty point is moot for people like myself that bought an HTC-branded TyTN without a warranty (because we went through third parties that weren't authorized to sell HTC product to end users).
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Well you can try everything, I do have warranty.
I couldn't follow the whole thread, but I guess that one reason WM6 will be released for the TyTN is the fact that many Mobile Operators are selling it with their own brand. Its "mini-notebook" design made it really perfect for office customers of service providers.
On the other hand, in example, HTC Trinity/P3600 which was only sold with HTC brand seems to be unsupported in the WM6 switch.
It's something more complex than a bone...
Is marketing strategy.
POINT A
WM6 is JUST a name, nice graphic and bug fixed enhanced DLLs, is a simple WM5.2 (marketing, to boost WM6 install)
WM6 NEEDS activesync 4.5 and AS4.5 doesn't work with office 2000, ME, NT, 98, and generally speaking is something LESS than 4.x releases (marketing, to improve office 2007 sales, 80% of users doesn't need nothing more than office 2000)
LESSON LEARNED
Is hard to say now WHY I HAVE TO USE VISTA lack of drivers, security improved? may be IMHO complexity is the only thing improved!
more WM6=more AS4.5= more office 2007= VISTA sales
POINT B
selling connected services and ....Windows update and live to be connected LIVE is the next strategy, VISTA could be will be the last OS fully developed from MS, It was really hard do deliver.
LESSON LEARNED
If your busines is selling the SAME SOFTWARE for years someday you discover you landed in a place were the market ends.
You can't improve much more... then people stops buying it!
POINT C
business market. Why Exchange ? to boost mobile integration .But I have Exchange 2003 already... HTML email, available ONLY with exchange server, and a lot of cooperation and security features availabe ONLY on 2007.
LESSON LEARNED
phone isn't a voice device anymore. Voice is expensive in terms of time/results. Mobile Data Communication and services are the next 10 years business, but from MS point of view is a business for partners (operators, other), thay aren't involved.
PHONE AND WM IN MS ARE LIKE MEN FOR SOME LADIES: THEY AREN'T THE FINAL PURPOSE, THEY ARE ONLY INSTRUMENTS TO HAVE SOMETHING (WIFE, MOTHER, FAMILY, MONEY/VISTA, OFFICE,EXCHANGE, LIVE SERVICES ) (sorry ladies, nothing personal, same example could be done for men)
WM6 WILL BE FOR FREE FOR EVERYONE I guess! as marriage: free and promishing at the beginning, hidden costs are discoved later
UPDATE:
I discovered how STUPID a Marketing Manager could be.
WM6 Standard has only word/excel editing AND NOT creating.
The 'Save As' dialogue in the Compact Framework is not implemented in Smartphone!!!! (As Paul from MODACO discovered http://www.modaco.com/index.php?showtopic=252990)
A little utility and NEW Word and Excel documents are available.
While E. Coyote is in Microsoft, director of Windows Mobile BU?
OK I was a little harsh when I sent this to T-Mobile this morning, bad day, but it does reflect my feeling about T-Mobile’s attitude towards its business customers.
I will of course be flashing my phone with a ROM from this sight but when I visit clients and they comment on my phone I shouldn’t need to tell them that they can only use the phone with all it’s features if they burn the warranty... We are seeing quite a few clients make the transition to Office 2007 and Exchange 2007 so telling them that to open files on their phone they must stick to saving files in 2003 mode and that they will not notice many improvements on their phone using WM5 and Exchange 2007 (only real benefits are administrative) is totally unacceptable and will mean that both T-Mobile and HTC lose out as we will be recommending the i-mate Ultimate range of phones in future (anyone have a good supplier?)
Good morning, I have just been informed by a colleague that whilst I was led to believe that a Windows Mobile 6 update for both my Ameo and Vario 2 were imminent, T-Mobile UK has now decided that it's business customers do not require the advantages offered by this upgrade and that having just invested a not insignificant amount of money in a new phone I will have no choice but to void the warranty in order to get the upgrade that other colleagues in other countries will receive from T-Mobile direct! Might I suggest that if you are unwilling to provide this upgrade you at least extend the warranty to cover the upgrade released by HTC as without this concession I will find it very hard to justify renewing my contract with T-Mobile UK in 18 months when it expires! Nor will I be able to continue recommending T-Mobile to my clients. As a VAR and IT Managed Services provider I often recommend to clients their next phone upgrade to be integrated with their Exchange servers, I am now installing Exchange 2007 which specifically takes advantage of new features added in Windows Mobile 6 not to mention continued compatibility with Microsoft Office 2007. The AMEO is one of your flagship corporate products to treat your customers with such disregard is unacceptable!
“Hello Martyn
Thanks for taking the time to contact me regarding Windows Mobile 6 and T-Mobile Uk's decision to not to release the software download for existing devises. I can understand how disappointed you must be with this decision especially if you bought the Ameo in the hope that you?d be able to download this software in the future.
T-Mobile have decided to bringing in new MDA devices that make best use of the features of Windows Mobile 6 rather than rolling it out on existing devices that work perfectly well with Windows Mobile 5.
Unfortunately we?re not in a position to extend the warranty to cover the upgrade offered by HTC and I?d recommend you would have to take this up with HTC. We?re also advising customers that downloading this software from other locations could damage the handset and invalidate the warranty as it?s not designed for UK devises.
I?m sorry you?re unhappy with our decision on Windows Mobile 6 Martyn but we do feel that our customer still have full use of all the features on the devices with Mobile Windows 5.
Kind regards
Ami Usher
Business Customer Services
T-Mobile
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Wow, that really sucks. I guess they figured they already have your money and you are stuck in a contract with no other options. Also, they probably thinking you will forget about this soon before the 18 months and you will renew with them again when another device hit market within that time frame.
that is kinda sucky!, i upgraded mine to wm6 anyway so
F**K tmobile.
and you cant beat webnwalk plus for £3 a month which is what it costs me
I am a private customer but use my Ameo for work too - therefore I just wrote them this:
I have just heard that unlike ALL other carriers of the HTC X7500 (the phone from which the Ameo is cloned) , T-Mobile UK is not releasing a Windows Mobile 6 upgrade. Even the manufacturer is doing this which PROVES the device works well with WM6! The american version indeed comes with WM6 as standard. Why is T-mobile UK leaving customers of its FLAGSHIP telecommunications device without the latest software update which allows the latest integration with MS Office and Exchange server? It is outrageous to crippple a device which has only just been launched. Please explain as I am appaulled that you are not going to properly suppport this device. If the upgrade is available (which it is minus the T-mobile branding) then it shoudl be branded and offered to us. It feels like now you have got our money and tied us to a contract you no longer care. I was previously with O2 and they offered upgrades to many of their HTC devices as and when they were released by HTC. I require a definiitive answer on this matter as I am frankly disgusted.
I'll see what comes back! Blasted T-Mobile UK!
I think all of their customers with Athena started complaining (flood the gates with hate mail and e-mails), they probably would reconsider their decision.
Ithink you're taking slighty the wrong tack here.
A few people need to approach t-mob as if they were a Smb and looking to purchase several (say 30) devices that havw a seperate keyboard large scren etc and the ability to link with exchange 2007. Say that the ameo fits the bill perfectly and is available already in the US with WM6 and when would t-mob be offering it, as it would dictate whether said company was going to go with t-mob or o2!
Would be interesting to see the response.
Good idea - if they lie etc and say they will be releasing then we can use that as ammunition!
Seems like T-Mobile has no clue what they are talking about. WM6 is a vast improvement in every area over WM5 and the Athena didn't work perfectly under WM5 either. Furthermore, even the new devices coming out...including the iPhone...are no match for the Athena so to say that WM6 will be better or other devices will make better use of the WM6 features is totally ignorant.
I have T-Mobile in the US and haven't run into this problem. They are all willing to work with me. I've always had the latest phones and never had a problem getting support from the US team. I do help them a bit by breaking it down and letting them know that even though the phone is different, the OS is supported so I tell them not to get distracted by the fancy hardware. ;-)
I can't believe T-Mobile isn't releasing the WM6 update. Damn shame. They are just trying to save money.
They have any right under the european laws to refuse to relase an upgrade, but they DON'T have any right to say that your phone could be damaged
"We're also advising customers that downloading this software from other locations could damage the handset" bull***t!
THIS IS A STATEMENT FROM AN IDIOT!! Downloading this software from other location you will damage WHAT?
May be you could have problem INSTALLING, FLASHING, RUNNING but not just downloading from other location!
This is the T-Mobile UK average manager's knowledge? Good for the competitors!
Just had another pathetic reply from T-Mobile - cant uderstand what 'resources' they need anyway - they only put their crappy badging on it anyway! Anyway here it is:
[FONT="]Thank you for your response to Gemma's email. I'm sorry you're not happy with the answers you were given.[/FONT]
[FONT="]As you rightly say there are numerous forums out there discussing devices, operating systems etc. People put their points of view their opinions and experiences. It may well be the case that many people have put the X750 1firmware successfully on their UK Ameos. There are also a number of cautionary tales from people who have bricked their device. [/FONT]
[FONT="]You are then in a position where you can make an informed decision and choose whether or not to upgrade to WM6. As Gemma said this could both damage the device and invalidate your warranty.[/FONT]
[FONT="]As Gemma said T-Mobile have decided to use their resources to bring in new MDA devices developed on and preloaded with WM6 rather than rolling it out for existing devices. I don't believe it is about saving money but rather allocating the available resources for development purposes, there are finite resources available and the decision not to offer a WM6 upgrade will have been thought long and hard about. I can understand why you aren't happy with this decision on a personal level and I'm sorry about that.[/FONT]
[FONT="]HTC seem to be launching numerous devices currently and I'm sure that by the time your contract comes to an end there will be a viable alternative to your Ameo that perhaps better meet your needs and wants. Another option may be to try and find out whether HTC themselves will be releasing a WM6 ROM.[/FONT]
[FONT="]We are certainly not saying that we have your money and that is tough - you still have exactly the same device with the same specification and operating system that you originally decided on. If you would like to discuss this further my details are below (calls to this number are chargeable. Please check with your service provider for further details).[/FONT]
[FONT="]Thank you for giving me the chance to address your points Mr Elphick. I hope you accept the reasoning behind our decision whilst I understand that you don?t necessarily agree with it. [/FONT]
these companies are pure rip off merchants don't expect anything else.
I get unlimted hSPDA in uk for 3 pounds per month . when I go abroad next week it will be 7.50 pounds PER MB!!
the govt has to stop these c**ts sooner or later
adamelphick said:
Just had another pathetic reply from T-Mobile - cant uderstand what 'resources' they need anyway - they only put their crappy badging on it anyway! Anyway here it is:
[FONT="]Thank you for your response to Gemma's email. I'm sorry you're not happy with the answers you were given.[/FONT]
[FONT="]As you rightly say there are numerous forums out there discussing devices, operating systems etc. People put their points of view their opinions and experiences. It may well be the case that many people have put the X750 1firmware successfully on their UK Ameos. There are also a number of cautionary tales from people who have bricked their device. [/FONT]
[FONT="]You are then in a position where you can make an informed decision and choose whether or not to upgrade to WM6. As Gemma said this could both damage the device and invalidate your warranty.[/FONT]
[FONT="]As Gemma said T-Mobile have decided to use their resources to bring in new MDA devices developed on and preloaded with WM6 rather than rolling it out for existing devices. I don't believe it is about saving money but rather allocating the available resources for development purposes, there are finite resources available and the decision not to offer a WM6 upgrade will have been thought long and hard about. I can understand why you aren't happy with this decision on a personal level and I'm sorry about that.[/FONT]
[FONT="]HTC seem to be launching numerous devices currently and I'm sure that by the time your contract comes to an end there will be a viable alternative to your Ameo that perhaps better meet your needs and wants. Another option may be to try and find out whether HTC themselves will be releasing a WM6 ROM.[/FONT]
[FONT="]We are certainly not saying that we have your money and that is tough - you still have exactly the same device with the same specification and operating system that you originally decided on. If you would like to discuss this further my details are below (calls to this number are chargeable. Please check with your service provider for further details).[/FONT]
[FONT="]Thank you for giving me the chance to address your points Mr Elphick. I hope you accept the reasoning behind our decision whilst I understand that you don?t necessarily agree with it. [/FONT]
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...........................Good for HIM......................................
....................................!..................................................
........BANDIT................!............LEADER..........................
....................................!..................................................
Bad For ME-----------+-------------------Good For ME
................................... !..................................................
.............IDIOT..............!.............HERO.............................
....................................!..................................................
..........................Bad for HIM..........................................
This is a well known graphic in Bunsiness Schools.
It is used to help to judge a company, a person, a strategy,... analyzing the effects on HIM (or his company, ...) and also the effects on ME (or over my products,my Company,...)
Good for HIM, bad for YOU = They are BANDITS! Looking from another side, may be his strategy will be bad for him also, reducing sales.
Bad for HIM and bad for YOU = IDIOTS
Beware from BANDITS and from IDIOTS, also IDIOTS are the WORST force in the world, not even GOD can stops the stupidity!
You aren't loosing... anything? We are in a fast and competive business enviroment and if your company will move to exchange server 2007... your T-Mobile AMEO will be OUT (just to give him a simple example) IDIOTS !
if resources are the problem, not the money i would do it for them
I will suggest to send to him something about the importance of having an up to date software in the business environment, explaining the differences between PHONE and COMPUTER business.
ATHENA is part of the COMPUTER business and I have never seen a computer company refusing a major software update after less then one year for a new model.
May be they won't offer it for FREE, I could agree, but they could offer it for money...
Just give him the last chance to demonstate his stupidity, then prepare a petition, put it on line and post in every T-mobile UK phone forum your problem, their answers and ask for petition signing.
Update the 3d you opened in Uk with infos, news, jokes, the message coul be:
IS HAPPENING TO ME WITH ATHENA BUT THE NEXT COULD BE YOU WITH YOUR T-MOBILE DEVICE
Wrote to newspaper, to consumer associations, make a LOUD noise, using Internet Power, I've seen many success stories..., wait the end of summer, you will have more power, now the newspapers are full of... topless stories!
OK Guys, they are NOT going to back down! What do we do next? It's a disgrace!
Heres what they replied to me:
Thank you for your prompt response to my previous email. I apologise that you don't agree with T-Mobiles policy on upgrading your Ameo with WM6.
I suggested you check with HTC as an alternative means of finding the ROM update you want. I have however checked for you and the upgrade for your device will be available this month. As stated previously it is not something we at present support or offer .
You mentioned a possible problem with the case provided. Every fault report or warranty claim would be looked at on its own merits and it would be wrong of me to try and offer you a blanket answer to what is as yet a hypothetical question.
I do understand and appreciate that you are not being awkward as such. Is there anything that makes you say that T-Mobiles customer care regime does not in fact care? I'm sorry if any of your dealings with us have made you feel that way and I assure you that is not our intention.
I'm afraid I'm still not able to give you the answer you'd like. As you say the software will be widely available and as a consumer you can make an informed decision as to whether you wish to use it or not. At this stage we have no plans to support or officially offer it.
I can only repeat my previous point you still have the device you initially chose loaded with the operating system and running the same applications. I am sure you would have looked into the merits of the Ameo as compared to the alternatives available at the time and made your decision on the strength of that.
Thank you again for your email Mr Elphick and again for taking the time to let me know your views. I'm sorry that I'm still not able to give you the answer you would like.
adamelphick said:
OK Guys, they are NOT going to back down! What do we do next? It's a disgrace!
Heres what they replied to me:
Thank you for your prompt response to my previous email. I apologise that you don't agree with T-Mobiles policy on upgrading your Ameo with WM6.
I suggested you check with HTC as an alternative means of finding the ROM update you want. I have however checked for you and the upgrade for your device will be available this month. As stated previously it is not something we at present support or offer .
You mentioned a possible problem with the case provided. Every fault report or warranty claim would be looked at on its own merits and it would be wrong of me to try and offer you a blanket answer to what is as yet a hypothetical question.
I do understand and appreciate that you are not being awkward as such. Is there anything that makes you say that T-Mobiles customer care regime does not in fact care? I'm sorry if any of your dealings with us have made you feel that way and I assure you that is not our intention.
I'm afraid I'm still not able to give you the answer you'd like. As you say the software will be widely available and as a consumer you can make an informed decision as to whether you wish to use it or not. At this stage we have no plans to support or officially offer it.
I can only repeat my previous point you still have the device you initially chose loaded with the operating system and running the same applications. I am sure you would have looked into the merits of the Ameo as compared to the alternatives available at the time and made your decision on the strength of that.
Thank you again for your email Mr Elphick and again for taking the time to let me know your views. I'm sorry that I'm still not able to give you the answer you would like.
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In my understanding they changed something .... Now they said.."please use the HTC upgrade". This seems to me a big difference from the first statement..,"don't even try to modify the rom supplied".
Now you have material to make a loud noise all around internet about the lack of update support from T-Mobile. Wrote a petion and ask for signers, not only for AMEO but for all unsupported T-Mob UK devices
Following this thread from the start I can surely say that the initial good impression I had from T-Mobile has been severely tarnished.
I think their blatant lack of support and stupidity are going to be at the cost of business customers. Already I can't sync with my company server (if I had stayed on T-Mobile WM2005, but fortunately now on WM6 ROM from this site).
I for one will be fully supportive of any petition drawn up. If they don't change their tact, come upgrade time it will be byebye T-Mobile.
I am SHOCKED that anyone ever had a good opinion of T-Mobile !
The only people worse than T-Mobile are Phones4U.
A few years ago I bought a Tmob contract/phone from P4U. Not a good experience, it was broken out of the box, unusable. P4U refused to take it back despite being within 7 days of purchase, they wouldnt replace it and told me to go to TMob. TMob said it was P4U's problem, when I went back P4U told me it had been TOO LONG and said I should go to Carphone Warehouse as they do Nokia warantee Repairs.
It was 2 months before I had a working phone, I paid £200 to P4U for the phone and was paying monthly during this time, neither of them wanted to help me in any way.
I gave TMob a chance recently thinking maybe they had mended their ways, but to be honest, they are as bad as ever. I will never however buy from P4U again and suggest nobody else does either.
Pyrofer said:
I am SHOCKED that anyone ever had a good opinion of T-Mobile !
The only people worse than T-Mobile are Phones4U.
A few years ago I bought a Tmob contract/phone from P4U. Not a good experience, it was broken out of the box, unusable. P4U refused to take it back despite being within 7 days of purchase, they wouldnt replace it and told me to go to TMob. TMob said it was P4U's problem, when I went back P4U told me it had been TOO LONG and said I should go to Carphone Warehouse as they do Nokia warantee Repairs.
It was 2 months before I had a working phone, I paid £200 to P4U for the phone and was paying monthly during this time, neither of them wanted to help me in any way.
I gave TMob a chance recently thinking maybe they had mended their ways, but to be honest, they are as bad as ever. I will never however buy from P4U again and suggest nobody else does either.
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The issue you've posted has nothing to do with T-Mobile, it's all Phones4U. Phones4U are in a position where they don't supply T-Mobile stock handsets. They have their own stocks which they source independantly. Hence why their phones generally aren't branded and are supplied network unlocked.
T-Mobile will support you if the handset is "one of theirs". If it's a "SIM free" model then your support should come from your place of purchase.
Its amazing that a major telco can't be bothered to upgrade people to WM6. I suppose its best for them, as they've got no problems with bricked devices and it encourages upgrades from existing subscribers to new handsets at contract renewal time. When mine does become due (another year or so yet) I shall be cancelling my contract, and asked the reason why, I shall state that by not offering an upgrade we know they have (hence the leaked rom) that I believe them to be a profiteering supplier only interested in encoraging upgrades and not offering the support their customers demand.
I can understand why they don't do it, and on the whole, I like T-Mobile, but the sell and forget attitude smacks of poor customer service. Not that I think any other Telco is any better, but might as well spread my £££ around to whoevers doing the best deal at the time.
This might be a stupid question to ask from a this type of community but the Chinese knock-offs or the endgadget term 'KIRF' phones
The sciphone N19
The sciphone N21
Aphone A6
Are these really android?
and if so arnt they upgradable to, for instance Android 2.0
and cant they be flashed with roms from other devices? (I'm kind of new to this and I dont really know what a 'rom' is, yet!)
Their only imitations. Which means the hardware inside is different. So you won't be able to flash a ROM designed for a G1 for example since the imitation and the G1 have different hardware (drivers)....
You might be able to install an updated android system assuming it's not a lookalike system, for example a regular Nokia OS with it's "Face Painted" to look like android lol. Also remember, the hardware inside it probably bare minimum to just run what it came with....
the video
but this looks pretty convincing that its android, isn't it?
kurt.hewett said:
but this looks pretty convincing that its android, isn't it?
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It might actually be android. You probably won't be able to use the custom roms you find here because of hardware differences but it looks like it's running an actual android system. Remember android is Open Source so it's even easier/cheaper for the Chinese to do this, lol...
i wouldnt buy any of these phones...not even for 50€
> i wouldnt buy any of these phones...not even for 50€
From what I've seen, an Android phone intended for the Chinese domestic market...
* Would be "rooted out of the box". They wouldn't even bother to try protecting it.
* Would be electronically compatible with two dozen other Chinese domestic Android phones. They might have different button layouts, screen sizes, batteries, and build quality, but the biggest single thing driving their firmware would be the manufacturer's ability to slap one of Google's reference builds into it more or less verbatim.
* Would put most American and European phones to shame insofar as aesthetics go. Cheap Chinese stuff might have nonexistent build quality, but even the lowest-quality crap to come out of an anonymous factory somewhere in Harbin or Chonggqing is going to look attractive, if not downright cool.
* Almost without a doubt, would be the most feature-packed ghetto-fabulous phone you could pull out of your pocket anywhere in America. Nothing on the phone might work reliably (or for more than 3 months before breaking), but if there's a feature you can pack into a phone... it'll be there.
* If you were fluent in Mandarin or Cantonese, and stumbled across one in China, it would probably be so cheap, you could buy two spares for less than it would cost to insure a PDA phone for a year and pay one replacement deductible for any carrier in the US.
Speaking of which... check out dealextreme.com if you want to see some crazy stuff you can buy directly from China. I've bought about a hundred bucks worth of stuff from them over the past year, and I've grown to be rather fond of them. They have a ton of phones I've never really looked at too closely since none of the phones they sell will ever work on Sprint, but they might have something Android-ready if you're in Europe or can live with EDGE-only in the US (I seriously doubt any phone sold in China today can do 1700/2200 or 850/850 UMTS). I'm still laughing about their "iFhone" models, or the phone running some unknown OS (probably some flavor of LiMo) that looks like A brown European Hero... or the "NOKLA N95"
mrandroid said:
It might actually be android. You probably won't be able to use the custom roms you find here because of hardware differences but it looks like it's running an actual android system. Remember android is Open Source so it's even easier/cheaper for the Chinese to do this, lol...
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They are real Android, period. We can make any kind of WM/Android GSM mobiles under USD$100! Just figure out how much HTC gain on you guys!
miamicanes said:
> i wouldnt buy any of these phones...not even for 50€
From what I've seen, an Android phone intended for the Chinese domestic market...
* Would be "rooted out of the box". They wouldn't even bother to try protecting it.
* Would be electronically compatible with two dozen other Chinese domestic Android phones. They might have different button layouts, screen sizes, batteries, and build quality, but the biggest single thing driving their firmware would be the manufacturer's ability to slap one of Google's reference builds into it more or less verbatim.
* Would put most American and European phones to shame insofar as aesthetics go. Cheap Chinese stuff might have nonexistent build quality, but even the lowest-quality crap to come out of an anonymous factory somewhere in Harbin or Chonggqing is going to look attractive, if not downright cool.
* Almost without a doubt, would be the most feature-packed ghetto-fabulous phone you could pull out of your pocket anywhere in America. Nothing on the phone might work reliably (or for more than 3 months before breaking), but if there's a feature you can pack into a phone... it'll be there.
* If you were fluent in Mandarin or Cantonese, and stumbled across one in China, it would probably be so cheap, you could buy two spares for less than it would cost to insure a PDA phone for a year and pay one replacement deductible for any carrier in the US.
Speaking of which... check out dealextreme.com if you want to see some crazy stuff you can buy directly from China. I've bought about a hundred bucks worth of stuff from them over the past year, and I've grown to be rather fond of them. They have a ton of phones I've never really looked at too closely since none of the phones they sell will ever work on Sprint, but they might have something Android-ready if you're in Europe or can live with EDGE-only in the US (I seriously doubt any phone sold in China today can do 1700/2200 or 850/850 UMTS). I'm still laughing about their "iFhone" models, or the phone running some unknown OS (probably some flavor of LiMo) that looks like A brown European Hero... or the "NOKLA N95"
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Don't be stupid! I am currently providing one of your "so -call" Cheap craps Android to a French operator! 15k each month. Let me tell u one thing, there is something called CE standard, or FCC in the US; ROSH.....etc. As long as our product passes those test in the lab, we have international standard certificates. I can also answer your doubts on the UTMS question. There is something called electronic IC chipset which send/recieve UTMS signals; furthermore, we do not have to invent it as Americans/Europeans gave it to us because they beg for our RMB. I think Huawei is at least 5 time the size of HTC, right? Moreover, most of the current WCDMA/HSDPA/HSUPA base station equiptment is provied by Huawei worldwide! Android, which google gave Huawei for FREE because google wished Huawei to modify their Hisilicon smartphone(hardware) platform to use it instead of Windows Mobile; and the Hisilicon platform supports both OS on the same PCBA. We are a small firm, and we are current selling more than 250k smartphones per year, let alone those mega size manufactures!
As long as someone has money, products/technology would look for them to buy or invest. Americans, just keep your tunnel vision; that answers why our country is more and more wealthly and yours could only loan to pay-up depts. I am waiting for your bankruptcy!
P.S. I have never done a deal to sell to the U.S. not due to our own quality, just because Americans have no money but big-mouths!
P.S. Your unknown OS is called MTK platform(Mediatek), which partly owned by Foxconn; captures more than 65% of world wide GSM market in 2009! Samsung and LG are both their customers on the dual sim models! MTK will launch their smartphone platform on Android/WM this quarter!
So if China is so wonderful, when are you guys going to invent something original instead of just using your near-slave labor to put out cheap copies of American and European inventions? Something new and original that doesn't "borrow", abuse, or our right steal the intellectual property of the West?
Just curious.
calm down guys. seriously. this isn't the right place for any kind of political debate.
Talking about phones... there are a couple of reasons why chinese phones are cheaper. one of the main reasons: the development costs are much lower. most chinese phones are knock-offs, they don't have to pay any fancy designer and reverse engeneering requires less ressources than actual inventing and developing. in addition to that work simply is much cheaper in china as you probably know.
there is something called CE standard
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c'mon. passing the CE tests is nothing to be proud of. 79cent plastic toys have CE-logos.
fabsn said:
calm down guys. seriously. this isn't the right place for any kind of political debate.
Talking about phones... there are a couple of reasons why chinese phones are cheaper. one of the main reasons: the development costs are much lower. most chinese phones are knock-offs, they don't have to pay any fancy designer and reverse engeneering requires less ressources than actual inventing and developing. in addition to that work simply is much cheaper in china as you probably know.
c'mon. passing the CE tests is nothing to be proud of. 79cent plastic toys have CE-logos.
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CE standards required diffenent tests on each cataglory; u cannont compare toys with mobile. It tests radio performance, like GSM, WIFI, bluetooth; how many working hours can the components last, or testing material whether they are harmful to human body.
Gatecrasher R/T said:
So if China is so wonderful, when are you guys going to invent something original instead of just using your near-slave labor to put out cheap copies of American and European inventions? Something new and original that doesn't "borrow", abuse, or our right steal the intellectual property of the West?
Just curious.
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1 mobile with dual SIM stand-by was invented by Chinese; It captures more than 40% of the current GSM market. Once again, our so-called cheap phones captures more than 65% of the market in 2009! Way more than the combine figures of Nokia, Samsung, SE, LG and Moto. Oh, I forgot.....Moto asked Foxconn and TCL to O.D.M mobile products for them. Is this one kind of the West's own invention?? Invention needs MONEY, that's why the West beg for our RMB and pass the technology to us.
We are now developing dual SIMs Windows Mobile, probably be launched late 2nd Quarter! Did u play with any of these before? Give a try then!
Sciphone N21 is apparently the same as DSTL search here for roms.
Sciphone N19 (the one i got few weeks ago) doesn't seem to be a replica of some other known phone. It runs android 1.5 out of the box, has unusual filesystem structure and I haven't found a way to recover (in case i brick it) with upgrade, therefore I won't be attempting upgrade to 1.6 or 2.0.1. 'official' site doesn't seem to mention existence or intention on publishing upgrades.
Android Market doesn't exist as app, out of the box, but there are some ways around it. (eg get Android Market for SDK -- as per some posts on this forum) then dig out apps to put on Sciphone N19. Once I collect everything required for a 'patch' I'll post.
Resolution on N19 is weird -- QVGA, not the usual HVGA, so a lot of the apps off Android Market that are written poorly for a fixed rez don't scale, and are not usable.
I'm not sure about other phones you were asking about.
What I was waiting for
xulture said:
Sciphone N21 is apparently the same as DSTL search here for roms.
Sciphone N19 (the one i got few weeks ago) doesn't seem to be a replica of some other known phone. It runs android 1.5 out of the box, has unusual filesystem structure and I haven't found a way to recover (in case i brick it) with upgrade, therefore I won't be attempting upgrade to 1.6 or 2.0.1. 'official' site doesn't seem to mention existence or intention on publishing upgrades.
Android Market doesn't exist as app, out of the box, but there are some ways around it. (eg get Android Market for SDK -- as per some posts on this forum) then dig out apps to put on Sciphone N19. Once I collect everything required for a 'patch' I'll post.
Resolution on N19 is weird -- QVGA, not the usual HVGA, so a lot of the apps off Android Market that are written poorly for a fixed rez don't scale, and are not usable.
I'm not sure about other phones you were asking about.
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that was what I was waiting for, (not the debate which phone is better nor which economy )
btw what is the official site you were talking abt?
the box came with www.mysciphone.com written on it.. That site seems to be the most official ;-) I can't seem to register for their forums though. Other models they have for sale are android and iphone look-alikes. I don't know much about iphones. But the N19 and N21 actually come with proper Android.
The N21 does actually take my interest. 0.6ghz? check. 2 SD card slots? check. Android 1.5 Cupcake? Meh, but never mind. 5mp camera? Sweet. Under £100? You bet.
And don't knock the Chinese. Remember, they had their enlightenment while we were still stuck in the dark ages, and if you really think about it, they have been exporting their technologies to us since time immemorial.
Yeah, they're cheap knock offs, but they're aimed at their domestic market. The stuff they do for our market, Google and HTC have commissioned, like the Nexus One for example (and yes, I would bet my last pound that it was manufactured in China).
And I bet there are loads of Chinese Android hackers who, if only we could communicate with them, could show us a thing or two about rooting and modding Androids (and possibly give us the rooting kits to these phones as well).
Phil.
pbrennan42 said:
The N21 does actually take my interest. 0.6ghz? check. 2 SD card slots? check. Android 1.5 Cupcake? Meh, but never mind. 5mp camera? Sweet. Under £100? You bet.
And don't knock the Chinese. Remember, they had their enlightenment while we were still stuck in the dark ages, and if you really think about it, they have been exporting their technologies to us since time immemorial.
Yeah, they're cheap knock offs, but they're aimed at their domestic market. The stuff they do for our market, Google and HTC have commissioned, like the Nexus One for example (and yes, I would bet my last pound that it was manufactured in China).
And I bet there are loads of Chinese Android hackers who, if only we could communicate with them, could show us a thing or two about rooting and modding Androids (and possibly give us the rooting kits to these phones as well).
Phil.
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i think the product that u r waiting for shares the same solution or PCBA with this: http://www.jetsun.net.cn/ProductShow.asp?ID=116
There is another version that runs on CDMA EVDO(CDMA 1X) network. They should be selling at around USD$180. For the rooting kits, you need to make sure the chipset solution is the same; otherwise it won't work. For example, the tool on Hisilicon platform doesn't work with Marvell even they both runs Andriod 1.5. Even so, still a lot of work needed to be done as u need to migrate the LCD drivers, TP driver, camera driver.....etc.
Once again, Androids or WM6.5 do not need to hack. Google/Microsoft pass their solutions/designs to chipset makers; Androids or WM6.5 then can run on that specific PCBA design. We will get an example and BOM list of that design when we purchase the chipset with RMB or USD. IT IS COMPLETELY LEGAL because this is called "technology transfer". In fact, those chipset makers are pulling all stops to help us to develop our own product. BECAUSE THEY WANT SALES AND $$$! Just that simple!
P.S. I don't know whether you guys have ever heard of Marvell....It is listed on Nasdaq, and bought Intel's Xscale(Mobile CPUs) division back in 2005. Marvell currently supplies : Alcatel、Arima、Asus、Cisco Systems、Compal、D-Link、ECS Elitegroup、Ericsson、Fujitsu、Gateway、Gigabyte Technology、Hewlett Packard、Hitachi、Huawei、Intel、Inventec、LG、Linksys、Lucent Technologies、Motorola、MSI、NEC、NETGEAR、Nokia、Nortel Networks、Panasonic、Sharp、Sony、Quanta Computer、RIM、Samsung、Seagate、Toshiba、VTech、Western Digital。
I just want to clarify something: for the most part, I like, and enthusiastically approve, of most Chinese electronics goods. If you re-read my post, most of it is actually a compliment. One area where Chinese companies have American and European companies beaten badly is aesthetic design. Chinese companies place a very high importance on making things look nice. American companies, by comparison, regard beauty as the first thing to kill when cutting costs.
Just to give a semi-related example, last year I was shopping for new laminate flooring for my house. As anyone who's been to Home Depot or Lowe's knows, American and European laminate flooring generally looks *awful*. You can tell from 20 feet away that it's fake. On the other hand, high end laminate flooring from China (intended mainly for sale in China, but occasionally ends up for sale from small companies in big cities like Miami & New York) will blow you away. You'd literally have to get on your hands & knees, with a flashlight and magnifying glass, to know for sure that it isn't real wood.
Why don't American companies, like Home Depot, sell it? They make higher profit margins selling engineered hardwood. If they sold laminate for half the price that looked 99% as good as the best hardwood, nobody would bother with engineered hardwood. That's why the only place you can buy it in America is from small businesses that literally buy a few shipping containers of it, then sell it straight from their warehouse. The 60c/foot laminate from China is just as awful as the 99c/foot laminate from WilsonArt or Pergo... but the $3-4/foot laminate from China is amazingly good.
As far as my statement that the phones wouldn't be able to work on Sprint or Verizon, and wouldn't be able to use 3G data on GSM, I maintain that it's almost certainly true *right now*. It's not because the Chinese phones are low quality or less advanced. It's due to an unfortunate combination of politics and the business practices of American cell phone carriers.
As far as I know, the United States is the only country on Earth where UMTS operates at 850MHz/850MHz (AT&T) or 1700/2200MHz (T-Mobile). OK, Canada & Mexico might use the same frequencies, but it's still a very small subset of the world market. More importantly, T-Mobile didn't even OWN those frequencies until ~3 years ago, and didn't deploy its first 1700/2200 UMTS cell for customer use until ~2 years ago. In most parts of the country, they're still in the process of deploying it, and WILL be for at least a few more years.
The FCC isn't happy about it, but it WILL tolerate the use of imported cell phones that are approved by some other government agency it respects (including those of Europe, Japan, and Canada). The problem is, THOSE foreign agencies will only certify and approve frequencies relevant to their own countries. Since 1700/2200 are irrelevant to use in their countries, they won't certify it (even if they DO certify the same phone for 1900/2100UMTS). Right now, the FCC is pretty much the only government agency that will certify a phone for 1700/2200 operation, and getting FCC approval costs about $100,000. Because it's so expensive, and because the only market where it matters is the US, NOBODY -- Chinese, Finnish, Korean, or otherwise -- is going to spend the money getting a phone approved by the FCC for 1700/2200UMTS in the US unless they already have a firm order from AT&T or T-Mobile that's contingent upon getting that approval first.
Thus, it's obviously not inconceivable that a phone not officially approved for 1700/2200UMTS might work anyway. HOWEVER, if someone were caught trying to import phones capable of 1700/2200UMTS that weren't approved by *somebody* official, they'd be confiscated and destroyed.
There IS a possible loophole: since most new cell phones have software-defined radios, it would be VERY possible for a Chinese company to export phones to the US that were approved for international UMTS frequencies (1900/2100), and were shipped with radio firmware that did ONLY those frequencies... but ALSO quietly leak the unapproved firmware that would "magically" enable 1700/2200 UMTS radio operation. Now, technically, anyone using a phone like that to do 1700/2200UMTS would be breaking the law... but as a practical matter, the phone would work fine, and nobody would know the difference.
I know this, because there were quite a few discussions about it regarding the TrollTech GreenPhone and OpenMoko. AFAIK, nobody ever managed to hack the firmware to enable 1700/2200UMTS for either phone, but that was mainly because TrollTech and FIC are big companies with a lot to lose if they made the FCC angry. On the OTHER hand, I can definitely see a small(er) Chinese handset manufacturer quietly leaking a copy of firmware capable of 1700/2200UMTS to an American importer for him to test, then order 100,000 phones to sell on eBay once he's verified that the phones can be reflashed and do 1700/2200UMTS on T-Mobile. The phones would be legal to import, because their 'out of the box' capabilities would be exactly what were officially approved... but anyone could then buy them and reflash them to do 1700/2200UMTS on Tmo. As long as the guy selling them didn't *advertise* them as 1700/2200-capable, ship them with the unapproved firmware, or get caught telling customers how to do it, the FCC couldn't touch him. He *might* even be able to get away with a disclaimer in the ad, like "WARNING: This phone is only APPROVED for 1900/2100UMTS, and MUST NOT be reflashed with unauthorized firmware to enable 1700/2200 UMTS." (making it obvious to everyone that it's not only possible, but probably quite easy to do).
As far as CDMA phones go, imported phones aren't likely to be useful in America for quite a while. There's no technical reason why they wouldn't work. The problem is that Sprint maintains a database of the ESN of every phone they officially sell, and they won't allow customers to use phones whose ESN isn't in their holy database. In theory, Verizon WILL allow you to use any unlocked CDMA phone you can get to work... but as a practical matter, this just means you can flash a Sprint phone that's the twin of a Verizon phone with Verizon firmware. Without Verizon-specific firmware, you'll have problems with data (I'm pretty sure EV-DO won't work), text messages will get mangled (Verizon formats them differently than everyone else), and the phone's voicemail indicator won't work properly.
God knows, 4-5 years ago, there were two or three Chinese-made CDMA PalmOS phones I would have *killed* to be able to use on Sprint.
The point I made about Chinese phones being "rooted out of the box" was actually a compliment, meant to illustrate that to users HERE (at XDA-develoeprs), Chinese phones are likely to be more interesting than American & European phones *if* someone can figure out how to get them onto T-Mobile, Sprint, and Verizon "through the back door" (or lobby China's government to twist Obama's arm and get the FCC to *force* Sprint and Verizon to let us have R-UIM cards and use any unlocked CDMA phone we want, in the name of international interoperability). I suspect the 1700/2200 problem will take care of itself in another 2-3 years (eventually, CE and the others WILL start certifying 1700/2200 capabilities, because Europeans will want phones that can officially do 3G UMTS when visiting the US), though 850UMTS is probably a lost cause for economic and technological reasons (getting a software radio that can already do 1900/2100 to also do 1700/2200 is a small change... getting it to do 850 is another matter entirely).
Likewise, the point I made about Chinese phones being very similar hardware-wise, and using nearly identical firmware, was meant to illustrate another reason why they'd likely be of interest to users HERE... if someone can get Android 2.1 to build for ONE Chinese phone, there's a good chance that they'd be able to get it to build for ANY Chinese phone built from the same reference platform and chipset. To a certain extent, that's already the case with HTC phones. In the long run, Chinese companies will be the ones that commoditize Android phones, creating hundreds of handsets that are more or less hardware-compatible as long as you have the right drivers (the way laptops are), but vary in the small details that currently frustrate so many users here. If I could buy a Chinese CDMA Android phone capable of working on Sprint with 800x480 display, 5MP camera, with a REAL gamepad (like the Sidekick has/had), and real hardkeys (I *hate* fake touchscreen buttons), I wouldn't *care* whether HTC and all of Sprint's official phones were button-free iSlabs. In the long run, China's domestic market is so big that if someone can come up with a way to keep those phones compatible with US & European networks, EVERYONE will benefit from increased choice -- especially users whose preferences differ from those of the iPhone-drooling masses. When there are 2-3 billion potential customers (between the US, Europe, and China), you can get away with making niche products that only appeal to a narrower group of buyers, because .01% of 3 billion is STILL 300,000
knock offs of what exactly?
isn't android open source? isnt this what google intended?
some interesting points made in this thread, nice to see comments from a manufacturer
just want to say (as iv have researched a lot on these knocks off type phones) a lot are Beautiful ! well worth the money.. have Good build quality , hardware & software (there smartphones anyway) and last time I checked my htc's etc were not built in US, Canada or tha UK lol
Just to add, http://fastcardtech.com Anyway not only has grate products, desent customerservice (Quick to answer anyway) They allso offer One year warrenty on all products, have grate prices (high shiping costs) They allso have a lot of grate video unboxings & reviews allso by there customers.. So buying a brand new WM or andriod smartphone that comes with warrenty for $100 to $200 is well worth it in my books... even if its just for WiFi surfing & software testing..
I would like to ask if someone can provide SIM unlocking code for my HTC Rose. Curently it is locked to UK ORANGE network. Unfortunatelly I do not have a credit card, so I can't use the advertised online sites.
My phone's IMEI is - 352681020985785
Thank you!
People are not very helpful here, are they?
Almost 100 views and not a single responce. It seems that the forum is loosing it's human face and is becoming more and more commercial!
God bless the few intusiasts that are still posting their work free of charge, just to be useful and helpful in this community.
http://rose.sim-unlocker.com/en/
It uses PayPal, but to be honest, I don't know if the site generates a proper code. Never used it.
This is totally unrelated to this forum but I could use some help. If this thread does not fit the forum rules, this thread can be deleted.
My sister in law lives in Italy with her family. With whom we need to talk to. While I was living in Ireland, talking to them was never an issue. I was buying my family skype or fring credit to call them. They do not own a computer. But all my skype and fring credit have run out and can' t buy them from Bangladesh . So I asked my brother in law to buy a phone that would support skype or fring. But he does not have a clue what does he need to do. Now, if any one the XDA members could give me some info on the mobile network. The need a decent Internet package, 1gb data allowance. They would buy one of the nokia e series phone or an android. I have looked online, could not get any useful info since i do not understand the Italian language. But someone told me that they can get 1gb allowance from WIND for 10 euro per month but could not confirm that.
So any sort of help would be appreciated
Sent from my LG-P500 using XDA App