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I have been a member of XDA some time now. In the time that I have been a member I have used various forums from the Wizard thru the Raphael. I am seeing a transformation in the forum that I think we need to correct. When I first joined, the board was very different from the way it is today. The posts were more technical in nature, with people offering suggestions and posting not only the bugs they found with the ROM’s, but sometimes the fix as well. I feel that the Raphael forum has strayed far from that, to the point where people are just posting and waiting for the chefs to fix everything. I am not saying everyone does that, but it is the majority. There are two things I am concerned about. One, chefs are leaving from being burned out or simply not having the time to keep up with all the requests, Second, the quality of the ROMs. See, if we help the chefs by either resolving our own issues or helping them with bug resolution they will have more time for improvements and refinement. This will lead to the fastest most stable ROMs possible. I think the community needs to go back to the times when people were a little hesitant to just post anything, and actually do research and troubleshooting before bugging the chefs. Any and all comments would be appreciated, either agreeing or disagreeing with me.
-McMex
Amen to that! could not agree with you more....
the problem is that flashing ROMs are too easy now, the tools are too useful, and these VERY powerful tools are now in the hands of kids too immature to research for themselves
I agree with you McMexican. Just had an issue in the Blackstone forum over this exact issue you mention here.
P1Tater said:
Here's the issue with XDA lately and it's not just this thread that it's happening. The problem is that everyone reports a bug but noone tries to assist in fixing it. Everyone expects the cook to be all-knowing and be able to fix himself. However, these people have lives as well. They have families and jobs and don't have 24 hours in a day to just sit here on the thread and wait for people to report bugs so they have something to do. So, everyone complains, cries and whines about their issues and never once says what apps they have installed, uninstalled, what regs they have changed or files they have added or deleted and then wonder why the chef doesn't have the issue and why he can't fix it. Then when the chef gets upset. Then, when they do get upset then the "Thank You's" come. Did it ever occur to anyone to thank the chef when the rom worked? No, when it works you don't post and when it doesn't work you post complaints. I wonder why the chef's get upset . Just think about it.
What should happen is if it works, thank the chef or contribute. Damn, even a Thank You goes a long way. If you are having issues, maybe just maybe, report the issue, what you have tried, whatt apps you have installed and what you have uninstalled. Ususally when a chef cooks a rom, they don't install apps to the rom because everything they use is cooked in. Believe it or not, some apps will absolutely kill a rom.
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This is what I posted in that thread but it seems as though it is worth mentioning here as this discusses the exact same issue we seem to be having all over XDA lately.
Agree
I agree with this partly although I'm not sure this is the right place to post it.
Its a free forum and in its nature you will nearly always get this type of thing.
Yes it does burn out alot of the chef's but they also have lives that take on different directions as time moves on and so they come and go.
The bug reporting with no solution must be really pissing our chefs off and it is not just for roms.. I'm seeing it with software enhancements too.
At its core this is still by far the best forum for our devices. I believe XDA has always developed the best ROMS & enhancements for our devices and often take them to places the original manufacturers would never have dreamed of.
I just don't know how something like this can be policed. Nearly all the guys post in their first post something about not asking dumb questions but yet they still get them.
The ones that really piss me off are something like "Just flashed and now blah won't work" with absolutely no details at all.
What I do is leave the 'dumb questions' to the other users of my ROM to answer.. I find the userbase to be generally savvy enough to answer its own questions
The ones that I feel the userbase will not be able to answer easily or in a timely fashion, I post an answer for
It's not that I wouldn't like to have the time to sit there and answer all the 'dumb questions', but my time is better spent doing other things.. and the users don't seem to mind helping each other generally, when it's within their knowledge..
Then again my ROM is a little more hands-on than others, so i've already eliminated a good amount of the 'newbies' by it not being quite so easy to flash
mcmexican said:
I have been a member of XDA some time now. In the time that I have been a member I have used various forums from the Wizard thru the Raphael. I am seeing a transformation in the forum that I think we need to correct. When I first joined, the board was very different from the way it is today. The posts were more technical in nature, with people offering suggestions and posting not only the bugs they found with the ROM’s, but sometimes the fix as well. I feel that the Raphael forum has strayed far from that, to the point where people are just posting and waiting for the chefs to fix everything. I am not saying everyone does that, but it is the majority. There are two things I am concerned about. One, chefs are leaving from being burned out or simply not having the time to keep up with all the requests, Second, the quality of the ROMs. See, if we help the chefs by either resolving our own issues or helping them with bug resolution they will have more time for improvements and refinement. This will lead to the fastest most stable ROMs possible. I think the community needs to go back to the times when people were a little hesitant to just post anything, and actually do research and troubleshooting before bugging the chefs. Any and all comments would be appreciated, either agreeing or disagreeing with me.
-McMex
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P1Tater said:
I agree with you McMexican. Just had an issue in the Blackstone forum over this exact issue you mention here.
Originally Posted by P1Tater
Here's the issue with XDA lately and it's not just this thread that it's happening. The problem is that everyone reports a bug but noone tries to assist in fixing it. Everyone expects the cook to be all-knowing and be able to fix himself. However, these people have lives as well. They have families and jobs and don't have 24 hours in a day to just sit here on the thread and wait for people to report bugs so they have something to do. So, everyone complains, cries and whines about their issues and never once says what apps they have installed, uninstalled, what regs they have changed or files they have added or deleted and then wonder why the chef doesn't have the issue and why he can't fix it. Then when the chef gets upset. Then, when they do get upset then the "Thank You's" come. Did it ever occur to anyone to thank the chef when the rom worked? No, when it works you don't post and when it doesn't work you post complaints. I wonder why the chef's get upset . Just think about it.
What should happen is if it works, thank the chef or contribute. Damn, even a Thank You goes a long way. If you are having issues, maybe just maybe, report the issue, what you have tried, whatt apps you have installed and what you have uninstalled. Ususally when a chef cooks a rom, they don't install apps to the rom because everything they use is cooked in. Believe it or not, some apps will absolutely kill a rom.
This is what I posted in that thread but it seems as though it is worth mentioning here as this discusses the exact same issue we seem to be having all over XDA lately.
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I absolutely agree. Both of these posts describe the reality of the situation. Back in the wizard days for the most part only people pushing the edge of technology bought the windows mobile PDA phones. The same appled to the hermes for the most part. When I moved to the tilt the tides began to turn. Prices of this type of phone began to be more reasonable based upon the technology. More and more companies bagan pushing mail. The internet became more of a requirement than a novelty. Less and less tech savy users began to purchase. These buyers soon learned winmo had a ton of flaws and came to xda. Some spent the time to learn and have become valuable members of the forum. Many did not. They pop in and want us to be the fix all for thier issues. One prime example is GSleon3. How many tilts did he unbrick for people carelessly flashing tilts. When the Fuze arrived the problem only grew. Ive seen more new members in the last 3 months than my entire time on xda. A few of the new members have really taken the time to learn and contribute. MANY have not. I get at least 15 posts a day in my thread asking questions that are answered multiple times in the thread. I get at least 30 posts per day that could easily be answered in at least 1 thread on xda if not dozens.
Most of the chefs in this forum are pushing the limits with cutting edge builds. Da_G has more or less led the way. It amazes me how many users think everything should work perfectly. With all the easy kitchens and premade OEMs so many people think making a good stable rom is easy.
I commend Da_G on pushing the cooking aspect. Hopefully more will realize its not as easy as they think. Ive been at this for years and I learn something new every day.
Over the past month I have grown more and more discouraged. If rom users would spend that extra few minutes to find a fix I could do so much more.
I do however want to thank all of those that have searched, that have, helped,that have answered questions and have done so much to make mine and other chefs roms better
While I do agree with all of what has been stated, and myself to be considered a "NOOB", I really think it comes down to the individual user. I may have asked a question or two (or 30) that may have been answered already before, but I personally try to search and I do try to find the answers myself when I can. I do try and figure the answers myself, but I just don't have the expertise to do so quite often. But myself, I try to make up for my lack of capabilities by way of PayPal to our grear chefs. Others don't truly understand the amount of work that goes into the cooking of ROMS, I am BARELY tapping into that now. I have been visiting XDA for quite some time now and have seen it grow. Unfortunately the user base has grown very large, and it is hard to manage the forums. With there being so many places to find information in this website, it takes time just to locate the information you need. Sadly, I don't see much change unless you start locking down the members capabilities to post, which would defeat the whole purpose of a community forum. As far as it is for the ROM Chefs, a suggestion for you would to not publicly post your ROMs (except in the case of the kitchens, don't do that, I'm addicted!) right away. Maybe put a password on them upon download and have some filtering system or something and maybe only release the password selectively or something. And have a guideline for posters, like your post must contain this: and if the post doesn't have that, then don't even bother responding. Let's face it, we techies with out the tech knowledge are at the mercy of the chefs!
Site is free but maybe some type of short ban on posting for spammer and those who bug chef after three strikes or so by senior member. A chef doesnt cook for just one person he cooks to what you may like. If you dont like a chef rom try another or just go back to dead stock rom bug your carrier. But my idea might be to much work.
Idea
Radimus said:
and these VERY powerful tools are now in the hands of kids too immature to research for themselves
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Wow, really? Maybe you were a dumb kid, but I'd like to avoid this stereotype.
The users on threads need to stop asking dumb questions, though. I think a rating system should be implemented like on Engadget. That way every time someone makes a dumb post we can demote them and limit their post count per day
The reason why there is so many nOObs posting is that the Raphael has had such a tremendous success at the carrier level. Almost all of the US carriers have picked up the Touch Pro. So it is very reasonable to surmize that the majority of new users are new to windows mobile and completely blown away by the amazing amount of tweaks available for it.
Maybe the best idea is create special forums designed for Senior Members only to comment in. They would be locked to all others to comment on, but visible for all to see. Then create another set of forums for general discussion. I see absolutely no reason a development forum should be open to all anyway. I often think if I read one more "Downloading now!" post I will scream! So again, I would lock just the development and hacking forums to approved members, or at least make all posts be moderated first before they are posted. That will keep the development threads clean.
I would then load up the non development discussion forums and threads with adwords and advertising and give that money back to the real developers. LEt the nOObs pay for development indirectly through advertising.
sammypwns said:
Wow, really? Maybe you were a dumb kid, but I'd like to avoid this stereotype.
The users on threads need to stop asking dumb questions, though. I think a rating system should be implemented like on Engadget. That way every time someone makes a dumb post we can demote them and limit their post count per day
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Is this post really necessary?
Anyway,
I agree with McMex about the types of post but part of the problem is the organization of the information. Idea for you, Subdivide the forum so that the Cooked ROMs could have their own POST that was a sticky and only limited to the Chef for editing (containing information about updates and revisions etc,...). Then maybe create another post for ISSUES ONLY with the Cooked ROM. And then one more for the nonsense that burdens the Chef or other users like me who try and shift through the countless meaningless post by the "can you fix..." crew. This might help keep the organization of the VALUABLE information contained in this forum.
I use XDA to help me stay up on the latest stuff so I can impress the boss and his co-horts into believing that I am a technical wiz (ha!).
Anyway, this is a bit disorganized and polluted but if you take the time to search, read, search some more and read some more you can find a lot of great help here. But it does need some organizing. Maybe if some people would use discretion in posting it might help cut down on the smog, if you know what I mean.
DSmithZ28, I think that we are on the same idea.
Many people here started out as noobs, used what they read, and then became developers. I'm trying to do just that. It would not be helpful to limit what I can see as I would not be able to learn the development process as easily. This wave just has to be ridden out and the community will pick up some more help along the way.
Just thought of this from systematic approach and put it in numbers (guessed at the numbers):
Forum pre-influx:
60% Experienced Members
30% Moderate
9% Noobs
1% Don't know where they are
Forum post-influx
45% Experienced Members
24% Moderate
30% Noobs
1% Still celebrating Obama's election
-What this means is that there aren't enough mid level people ATM to handle all of the tedious questions that the developers shouldn't have to answer. As more noob's gain knowledge, there should be a shift in the paradigm, this will even itself out and lead to another great period for XDA!
One thought, what if there were some type of Pledge or Credo thread that would echo the sentiments of this thread. Make it so the new member cannot post until they've responded "Read and Understood" to that thread.
Whatever happens, I pledge to help people find their answers, as it helps me learn along the way.
I know this probably sounds retarded, but back in the Kasier days, there was a couple of users (Scotchua, McMexican, Mfrazzz, taiser999, crispyj, HDStreetglide, JimmyMcGee, Daveshaw, & rzanolgy just to name a few) who floated around all of the rom threads and answered questions along with giving links and subtle prodding of the search function. Maybe if there were more users who did this, things wouldn't be the way they are today. But it will take more than just a couple of users. It will take the work of everyone. Also, we need more users helping edit the wiki's. These are just a couple of suggestions.
Never a truer word spoken, guys
Definitely agree that the culture's changed around here over the past few years.
I dallied a little with cooking a year ago. I was lucky - I had several people helping me by providing solutions to the problems I had (I'm looking at you McMex there, among others!). Back on the Kaiser, every chef helped each other and there was a hardcore group of users who knew what they were talking about and offered solutions. On the Raphael, we've got an excellent group of chefs co-operating, and there are a few of the hardcore, helpful users but I think they're getting lost in the huge amount of other users who seem to think this is an HTC support forum - they've spent money on their phones and think we owe them!
Have the users changed here, or is it just we've got so many more (unconstructive) users in here that they're being too diluted to see?
My time in the kitchen taught me I was out of my depth, and eternal respect for those people who deserve to be in there!
Maybe a read/search count of couple hundred before you can post in the dev forum? Just a thought. Seems like an easiest solution to implement for now.
@ overjjrk
Lol at the 1% celebrating Obama's election
And back on topic, I vote for a Question and Answers section for every device!
Agreed "at least 100%" to post one.
I started - as everybody did - as a NOOB and somehow I learned fairly good (*cough cough*) how to deal with these devices. I do also try to pick up threads now and then surfing the forum and trying to help (enough praise) but it trips me off BIG TIME that it seems meanwhile that NOOB's barely use the search, have no idea how google is spelled and give up after the first try or EVEN WORSE bump their own threads if the don't receive a quick answer. Good that I can keep my temper but sometimes I'd really like to answer "@@#$%%^&"....
I do like what pages like "blownfuze" or "fuzemobilty" provide for NOOBs because with that information stickies would take at least the first three pages of a subject.
Not sure if it can/will work out but fine tuning the Wiki (without breaking it) may help a bit since we all live from the contributions of each other.
An approach could be a Readme 1st section where either only mods or users willing to take this task, can contribute (guess mods will be overwhelmed since they too have a daytime job) and no replies are allowed.
One of the biggest issues and posts I do see recently is "setup the device to a certain provider". I'm not a cab or software guy but could one of these great people here perhaps come up with an idea to have a CAB which will simply set up the connection setting the that particular provider? There aren't more than 2 dozen major ones world wide so that could bring freedom to the chefs to deal with provider specific settings and keep concentrated on fine tuning a ROM still being open for the whole world.... just one of the ideas.
Let's see how this thread evolves.
how about i just start banning people that don't live in new york?
i think this is a good way to go about things.
I just switched to AT&T. I came from Sprint with an EVO 3D and so far it is the best decision I have ever made. I was getting .05mbps with sprint and now I am getting 3mbps and ATT says 4G is coming to my area soon. I already like the phone a lot more than the EVO too.
I am not new to rooting I probably flashed 20+ ROMS on my evo but I just wanted to ask a few questions before I make the jump.
1. This is my first GSM carrier so I am new to SIM cards. When rooting/flashing is there any concern with this?
2. If someone could please link me to the best root method that would be great
3. I always have a hard time choosing from so many ROMS. Stability is big for me. I usually dont participate in beta roms. I need everything to work. I would like a ROM that gets rid of bloatware, unlocks tethering, and adds performance tweaks like zip aligning and stuff. If someone could link me to a ROM that meets these needs that would be great as well.
4. If you have any tips or anything to give to a new SGII owner please do. I want to get the most out of my phone.
Thanks for the help in advance!
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1286432
Has everything you need.
There are a lot of stickys in the dev section on rooting.
ROMS...
We have lots of great devs so... make a good backup a flash yourself into a frenzy and have fun ;-)
Sent from my GT-I9100 using xda premium
We have a blanket rule that we dont allow "best roms" because all it seems to do it become a fanboy thread.
As always with XDA, we highly encourage that users read. This specific forum has a lot of good information written within the stickies. There are step by step walkthroughs, videos and a huge FAQ. Everything you need to know can be contained in those threads (found in the General and Development sections).
But due to a recent influx of repetitious threads all asking the same thing (for help), we have instated this policy and because of that, this thread will be closed.
If you have any further questions, please feel free to post them in the appropriate threads with the appropriate forum section. Thank you and enjoy your new Galaxy S II.
Our Shooter development forum has been a roller coaster ride over the past several weeks. Everything from developers taking their talents elsewhere to the unthinkable (HBoot downgrade) happening. As a fairly new, by XDA standards, member of these amazing forums, I want to know some people's honest opinions on what it will (or might) take to get our development forum back to what it's capable of being. In an ideal situation, we'd be able to have any lost developers come back and be able to share their contributions to our phones without any drama or repercussions for doing so. I mean no harm and I don't want bad feelings or bad memories being brought up, I just want what's best for XDA, XDA's members, and the developers that choose XDA to share their talents. I miss when XDA was fun and I want that back. I know there are many other members and developers out there that want the same.
Also, Moderators, please feel free to lock or delete this thread if it becomes a flame war or we start getting people trolling for no reason and adding nothing to this post. Also, please don't start throwing accusations around and all that. I want this to be a collaborative thought session from anybody who is willing to offer any constructive and positive feedback or ideas.
“To err is human; to forgive, divine” -- Alexander Pope.
mike.r.olson said:
Our Shooter development forum has been a roller coaster ride over the past several weeks. Everything from developers taking their talents elsewhere to the unthinkable (HBoot downgrade) happening. As a fairly new, by XDA standards, member of these amazing forums, I want to know some people's honest opinions on what it will (or might) take to get our development forum back to what it's capable of being. In an ideal situation, we'd be able to have any lost developers come back and be able to share their contributions to our phones without any drama or repercussions for doing so. I mean no harm and I don't want bad feelings or bad memories being brought up, I just want what's best for XDA, XDA's members, and the developers that choose XDA to share their talents. I miss when XDA was fun and I want that back. I know there are many other members and developers out there that want the same.
Also, Moderators, please feel free to lock or delete this thread if it becomes a flame war or we start getting people trolling for no reason and adding nothing to this post. Also, please don't start throwing accusations around and all that. I want this to be a collaborative thought session from anybody who is willing to offer any constructive and positive feedback or ideas.
“To err is human; to forgive, divine” -- Alexander Pope.
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I think all it would take is for people to stop being whinning, ungrateful douche bags. That is all. Devs are getting run off by people who whine and bi**h about every little thing. Everyone needs to realize that these devs are doing this for free and not asking for anything in return. Once everyone can do that and be grateful, I think a lot will change but it will not change everything. Some devs are gone and not coming back. At least gone to the 3D forums.
That's just my feeling on the subject.
Sent from my Anthrax infected 3D!
If I've helped you in any way... hit the "Thanks" button.
Also, here's what I use for reference when I want to know how well a thread can be run. Check out the MIUI thread (http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1271824). Team D3rp has done a fantastic job of making that thread a pleasure to read with even a few laughs here and there. Yeah it gets off topic every once in a while, but that's what FRIENDS do. They cut up and have a good time all while maintaining the same objective.
XDA isn't amazing, it's just the most popular. There are many issues here dealing with maturity, drama, and so on. The developers aren't some gods that should be worshipped and defended no matter what. The problem we have here is that too many people try to speak on behalf of devs, causing a lot of unnecessary drama.
In a perfect world, devs would post their work, and people would use it, figure out what could make it better, and continue from there. But here, if someone says something even a little derogatory towards a developer, they get teamed up on and attacked for it. Even though this is a free thing, and these people aren't paid to do this, they release their work to the public and as such they deserve criticism where needed. I've seen a lot of devs accept such criticism and work with it, but still people feel the need to defend them to the end. Devs aren't perfect, they aren't flawless people. Quite a few of them are attention seekers. People need to stop taking battles into their own hands. They need to realize that it just doesn't help.
There's too much of a focus on being the first to get something done, as well.
I agree that the developers should be subject to and even welcome constructive criticism, as long as it isn't a "THIS ROM SUCKS!!!eleven" kind of useless post. How else would one make their ROM/kernel/mod/theme better without worthwhile feedback? Maybe put a 10/15 word minimum on replies in the development and themes/apps sections?
One of things that drives me nuts is that people don't read the OP, won't even ATTEMPT to search for a solution to a problem, then they ***** & moan in threads like they are entitled to a answer in 2min from posting.
Sent from my PG86100 using xda premium
SketchyStunts said:
One of things that drives me nuts is that people don't read the OP, won't even ATTEMPT to search for a solution to a problem, then they ***** & moan in threads like they are entitled to a answer in 2min from posting.
Sent from my PG86100 using xda premium
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Maybe a larger, more dominant "Search This Post" button?
Perhaps a more larger, dominant brain in their heads?
Odoslané z môjho HTC EVO 3D X515m cez Tapatalk
mike.r.olson said:
I agree that the developers should be subject to and even welcome constructive criticism, as long as it isn't a "THIS ROM SUCKS!!!eleven" kind of useless post. How else would one make their ROM/kernel/mod/theme better without worthwhile feedback? Maybe put a 10/15 word minimum on replies in the development and themes/apps sections?
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some thoughts (basicly what it would take for me to post my work back on XDA again)
specific to the end-users and developers on xda:
..i have no problem is people tell me my work sucks.. but tell me WHY
---seriously, look at my work in the past, a user reported an issue, i busted my ass to fix it the same day the issue was reported, sometimes causing 2-3 releases in the same day
..instead of posting issues in XDA or any other forum, i ask you use my issue tracking site, so i have all the problems in one place, and everyone can see the status and updates of reported issues, including the person who reported it. (i honestly do not read every single post on my threads, i dont have the time... so if you have an issue, and you dont post it on my issue tracking site, dont expect to have it fixed..)
..i do have a problem when people make things personal or accuse anyone of any wrong doing without proof. even if they had proof, it should be done in PM and and not in public forum, or brought to the attention of a Sr. Mod if the PMs are not responed to.
..people should show common courtasy and respect when a developer (or anyone) gives them something for free. if you dont like it, move on....dont troll the developers thread.
..if you do not own the device covered by my thread, dont post in my thread, dont report my thread, dont down-rate my thread. If you do own the device, but dont use my software, the only thing you should be posting in my thread is questions about said software.
..understand ALL developers here are doing you a favor by giving you something for free...they sometimes spend days/weeks on something and just GIVE IT TO YOU
..<MOST> people will treat YOU like you treat THEM, if your an ass, expect to be treated like an ass.
..i dont expect to be treated any different than a non-developer, but i ask for basic respect...is this asking too much?
i know im not the only person on XDA that feels this way, but I am prolly the only one who will speak my mind.
+1 Chad.
That's for giving a developers point of view on the subject.
Also, I agree that developers should not be treated like Gods. They should be given respect for what they do though.
Sent from my Anthrax infected 3D!
If I've helped you in any way... hit the "Thanks" button.
That's the problem of using a forum to organize all of this stuff.
chad.goodman said:
some thoughts (basicly what it would take for me to post my work back on XDA again)
specific to the end-users and developers on xda:
..i have no problem is people tell me my work sucks.. but tell me WHY
---seriously, look at my work in the past, a user reported an issue, i busted my ass to fix it the same day the issue was reported, sometimes causing 2-3 releases in the same day
..instead of posting issues in XDA or any other forum, i ask you use my issue tracking site, so i have all the problems in one place, and everyone can see the status and updates of reported issues, including the person who reported it. (i honestly do not read every single post on my threads, i dont have the time... so if you have an issue, and you dont post it on my issue tracking site, dont expect to have it fixed..)
..i do have a problem when people make things personal or accuse anyone of any wrong doing without proof. even if they had proof, it should be done in PM and and not in public forum, or brought to the attention of a Sr. Mod if the PMs are not responed to.
..people should show common courtasy and respect when a developer (or anyone) gives them something for free. if you dont like it, move on....dont troll the developers thread.
..if you do not own the device covered by my thread, dont post in my thread, dont report my thread, dont down-rate my thread. If you do own the device, but dont use my software, the only thing you should be posting in my thread is questions about said software.
..understand ALL developers here are doing you a favor by giving you something for free...they sometimes spend days/weeks on something and just GIVE IT TO YOU
..<MOST> people will treat YOU like you treat THEM, if your an ass, expect to be treated like an ass.
..i dont expect to be treated any different than a non-developer, but i ask for basic respect...is this asking too much?
i know im not the only person on XDA that feels this way, but I am prolly the only one who will speak my mind.
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And hopefully we can get most of this accomplished. As I say in my other forums and it works.
If you see trolls report them, don't feed them. If you ignore them and report them we can get rid of them. If you fight with them we have to sort out who the trolls actually are.
Sent from my PG86100 using xda premium
The problem XDA wide is how aggressive everyone has become. It's not just developers, but users too. I read probably 100 threads every day looking for news stories and here's how it always goes:
1. Developer releases something
1a. Someone starts a thread in, say, General and says something.
2. Trolls
3. Everyone is angry
4. Developers leave.
The 5 things that would at least calm it down.
1. If there's a problem, report it to the mods. Too many regular users are trying to be ma and pa XDA and that causes a lot of problems. You think something is a kang or someone isn't following the rules: report to the mods and present proof. They'll look into it and make a decision. Live with that decision. (affects: users and developers)
2. If you don't like something, stay away from it. So many people post in dev threads for stuff they don't use just to cause problems. If you don't use it or don't like it, then get away from it. (affects: users and developers)
3. Stop demanding things from people. They aren't your slaves, you don't pay them and they don't owe you anything. In the old days, developers worked at their own pace and released things and users were just happy to have em. Now, users seem to have this "I'm entitled" attitude and it's wrong. You don't pay for XDA, ads do (exceptions being XDA Premium App owners and donators...but you guys do it because you love XDA, not because you expect something out of it). You don't pay for development...no one pays for development. It's a hobby to these people and they do it out of the kindness of their hearts. Be happy with what you have, be excited for what you're getting and quit running around like you're all that.
4. I'd say something similar about the developers, but Sora is ma and pa XDA today and took care of that for me.
5. This site is based around development and collaboration, not "you owe me a rom" or "where's our ICS" or "wah wah wah". Collaborating, developing and respecting one another, then things will be much better.
lastly, to those with sanity left...lead by example. This goes to devs and users alike. If you see someone trolling, don't respond to them. If you see someone acting a fool, don't respond to them. If you ignore bullies (even e-bullies), they eventually go away. Gotta stop letting them get under everyone's skin because then it shows that they can get under your skin and they'll keep getting under your skin. Who wants that?!
Good to see Chad still here. Stick around Chad! We got pstevep assigned to the 3D forums now, things are gonna get better!
just started reading in here for not so long, but noticed, that so many users think, the devs HAVE to publish their work, that they HAVE to include everything into a rom.
especially the thing with the camera and stuff on the evo 3d. like the devs have to get it work.
stop whining and shouting. if it's too slow for you guys, start doing it on your own.
in my opinion, if you, users always complaining about stuff, dont stop it, the devs will leave and won't publish any roms. so who's going to miss something? right, just you. the devs have their own roms. maybe they'll they in touch with other devs just talking about their work etc. but if they stop releasing their stuff, nobody will have custom roms any more, except you start programming your own...
so stop it, be happy with the stuff the devs provide and just report bugs, if there are any. or just say something, that may be a good feature of a rom
Besides Joel leaving I think things have been a lot better recently! If I do say so myself.
Joel is a great dev and those who care will follow him. I think people just got frustrated by all his projects but I myself enjoyed following the bleeding edge of his ports. But to each his own.
I believe at some point he will be back until then everybody should just try hard to be nice to eachother so the great devs will have a nice place to come back to.
Sent from my PG86100 using xda premium
This is awesome. Let's keep it going. I love when we can have troll/flame free discussions.
The thing that I don't get is the ones that go out of their way to post crap on people's threads that is useless just to be a smartass, troll or flame. If you don't like the topic, think it's stupid other whatever just move on and don't bother intruding on the persons post and degrading him. I mean what is the point in doing it really? It accomplishes nothing at all and results in another thread closing and why waste the time typing the nonsense in the first place
Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk 2 Beta-2
The first thing i ever noticed about XDA, coming from Villainrom was that the users on XDA had a lot less time for you, I adapted quickly and have had run ins before.
Some people just get shot down in flames for asking a question, whether they're noobs or whether they're just stuck asking a question in a section and getting no responses, it can be hard for someone to get an answer, typically when they're new.
If you want a perfect forum, then create rules, if people don't adhere to those forum rules, then they leave, it's as simple as that.
As for the developers, well this place wouldn't be what it is today without developers, but they do it because they want to, they want to work at making something better and then share it with people, if people have have a question then they should be able to ask away.
Some of the OPS don't have a lot of info in them either, if someone asks about something which is quite clearly in the OP then they should get face palmed i get that, but not if they don't understand something and didn't want to spend an hour trudging through 300 pages to find an answer, then someone sarcastically turns around to them and says "Use the search button DOH" or USE SEARCH ----> or something which you'd expect from a spoilt kid.
Plus the search function isn't the best on XDA, sometimes it just doesn't work.
Myself, i think the one thing which has scared all the dev's off is the 3d, no one has been able to crack that yet (on the newer roms), if it were a single camera and it wasn't 3d, i think it would be more popular than the sensation.
mike.r.olson said:
Our Shooter development forum has been a roller coaster ride over the past several weeks. Everything from developers taking their talents elsewhere to the unthinkable (HBoot downgrade) happening. As a fairly new, by XDA standards, member of these amazing forums, I want to know some people's honest opinions on what it will (or might) take to get our development forum back to what it's capable of being. In an ideal situation, we'd be able to have any lost developers come back and be able to share their contributions to our phones without any drama or repercussions for doing so. I mean no harm and I don't want bad feelings or bad memories being brought up, I just want what's best for XDA, XDA's members, and the developers that choose XDA to share their talents. I miss when XDA was fun and I want that back. I know there are many other members and developers out there that want the same. ...
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The short answer, IMHO, is to have more people on here learning how to develop and contribute than just using and requesting features. The respect and entitlement issues a lot of people attribute to XDA are also far from being unique to this site, they're issues with the Android community as a whole.
There are far too many people who would rather just throw money out there to anyone who can make their phone do cool ****, and, while there is absolutely nothing wrong with donating to someone for their time, when you start putting it out there too much you get people whose only concern is hustling others out of money and the whole open source model collapses.
edit: As others have also mentioned, if you see something disprespectful, innappropriate or you don't think it belongs in your thread, etc., please hit the little triangle on the top right of the post and report it. On a site with this much traffic it's impossible to see everything that goes on and you all would be shocked if you knew about some of the stuff that gets by without anyone reporting it. It also makes it much easier for us to deal with and recognize those who have a habit of causing trouble.
Ok. So I have thought about doing this for a long time and always have a reason why I haven't done it. I also still have plenty of reservations with it, but I trust it will go well.
What this is:
Ask questions to the moderation team here in the 3d forum. Mostly me. I can't say the others will participate in this thread, as they are not required to. We don't have to talk about a lot of what goes on and I will not force them to. I digress.
If you are confused about a certain rule, or just want clarification, come here. If you want guidance on how to approach a certain situation (this mostly for me), you can come here.
What this isn't:
A place to discuss in detail why someone was banned. Also we will not discuss the banning of people in the past. I will not usually talk about why someone was infracted. Those are all personal details, and will be left as such. Also this is not a place to flame the moderators or anyone else.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is my attempt to be fairly transparent with the user base. Most everyone here who knows me, knows that I am willing to talk to just about anyone, and am easy to get a long with. As long as you keep this a civil thread, it will remain. This isn't something that is required, I'm doing it to hopefully bring about some civility in this forum. We don't do things in secret, we just don't talk about it publicly usually.
You work with me, I will work with you.
Savvy?
Thanks to ramjet73 for encouraging me to go ahead and do this.
I too will participate and have subscribed to this thread. As most know I'm not secretive and don't hold alliances with a lot of devs here in 3d land. I tell it like it is and don't let anyone bash another member or previous member for that matter. As long as this is civil I will be as well. Let's play nice and all get along. Remember everyone we are all here to tweak our phones, run the latest software, have the coolest stuff, have fun, and share in our hobby. Nobody here is paid to be here at all so there is no reason to fight cause it gets u no where.
XDA Moderator
What they said ^
Also, as I am often seen as the more angry mod (I'm doing my best to curtail that), hopefully I'll be able to eloquently explain the reasons for my shortness.
Carry on.
Where do babies come from?? HAHAHAHA
Obviously I'm joking BUT I do have a serious question.
Why does the search feature go down once a day??
I know a lot of noobs don't notice this because they don't search BUT I use it all day long and I know I'm not the only one that finds this annoying!
Just a few questions. I'm not sure if these fall under the questions that are allowed to be asked, but:
1.] Is Agrabren simply not allowed to post CDMA builds anymore? I still don't truly understand the path his CDMA development has gone, it seems to come and go.
2.] To my understanding there are false GPL claims being made against him. How exactly are those claims made/handled? Is it an automated system? If not, wouldn't it be possible to tell which claims being made are just trolls?
3.] How do you guys put up with the drama so well? I would have lost my mind a long time ago :crying:
Reporting Posts
Thanks to pstevep and papa smurf151 for opening this thread.
I'll try to start this in the spirit that I think it was intended by asking the mods what is the best way to handle a post that has been made in the wrong forum, something that rarely happens in the Evo 3d forums.
We don't want to discourage new users that might not know better, but there are detailed guidelines posted for the development forum by papa smurf151 as a sticky in that forum, and general guidelines for new threads in the Forum & Marketplace Rules post at the top of each forum.
In your opinions, is it appropriate to link those guidelines when a post is misplaced or better to just reference them and let the users find them on their own? It's a good exercise to find them yourself when you are not even aware that they exist, but sometimes that discourages users from actually reading them.
This may sound trivial so far, but my real question is whether or not we should report these posts. Is it helpful to the mods to report posts, or better to just wait until someone gets around to reviewing the new threads.
On a broader scale, when would you recommend that we report posts versus just leaving it to the mods to handle them?
ramjet73
This was a great idea. I just want to say thank you to ramjet, pvstepup, and papasmurf for allowing a chance for normal members to come together and let members have a chance to clear the air of any matters that maybe unclear. This is one is for papasmurf: I notice more recently that you have locked quite a few threads with all having something to do with opinions of what's the best Rom or kernel. Now many of us get the idea that you are preventing flaming wars and trying to keep things civil. Myself and many others are wondering, is our hunches accurate?
DarkRazorZ said:
Just a few questions. I'm not sure if these fall under the questions that are allowed to be asked, but:
1.] Is Agrabren simply not allowed to post CDMA builds anymore? I still don't truly understand the path his CDMA development has gone, it seems to come and go.
2.] To my understanding there are false GPL claims being made against him. How exactly are those claims made/handled? Is it an automated system? If not, wouldn't it be possible to tell which claims being made are just trolls?
3.] How do you guys put up with the drama so well? I would have lost my mind a long time ago :crying:
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1. From my understanding he has taken his cdma builds off xda to let things chill for awhile. When things get heated sometimes the best course of action is to cool off and let time resolve the situation
2. Even though there are devs not on xda we do exchange emails or talk on other forums...sometimes even gtalk. The real gpl complaints come that way as well as from pm with specific issues linked and evidence given. Simply saying he's breaking the rules with no proof gets u no where with the mod team
3. Actually 99% of the time we have nothing go do and that's a good thing. At times we simply go into threads...clean them up and leave a warning. If it gets bad then u take further actions. Keeping a cool head and having to remain neutral helps to not get so mad since u don't take sides its easier. If it gets personal or u r personally involved that's when u step aside and let ur fellow mods help. We r all a big team and work together
XDA Moderator
Mazda said:
Where do babies come from?? HAHAHAHA
Obviously I'm joking BUT I do have a serious question.
Why does the search feature go down once a day??
I know a lot of noobs don't notice this because they don't search BUT I use it all day long and I know I'm not the only one that finds this annoying!
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U see when ur mom was hot I meet her at this hotel...I have pictures if u want details and well 9 months later we had a son named alex. I was ashamed of him so I left....lmso jk man.
Search = bang head against wall.
We really have no control of it. Its a server issue I think
XDA Moderator
Papa Smurf151 said:
U see when ur mom was hot I meet her at this hotel...I have pictures if u want details and well 9 months later we had a son named alex. I was ashamed of him so I left....lmso jk man.
Search = bang head against wall.
We really have no control of it. Its a server issue I think
XDA Moderator
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Thanks.......DAD??!?? HAHAHAHAHHA
ramjet73 said:
Thanks to pstevep and papa smurf151 for opening this thread.
I'll try to start this in the spirit that I think it was intended by asking the mods what is the best way to handle a post that has been made in the wrong forum, something that rarely happens in the Evo 3d forums.
We don't want to discourage new users that might not know better, but there are detailed guidelines posted for the development forum by papa smurf151 as a sticky in that forum, and general guidelines for new threads in the Forum & Marketplace Rules post at the top of each forum.
In your opinions, is it appropriate to link those guidelines when a post is misplaced or better to just reference them and let the users find them on their own? It's a good exercise to find them yourself when you are not even aware that they exist, but sometimes that discourages users from actually reading them.
This may sound trivial so far, but my real question is whether or not we should report these posts. Is it helpful to the mods to report posts, or better to just wait until someone gets around to reviewing the new threads.
On a broader scale, when would you recommend that we report posts versus just leaving it to the mods to handle them?
ramjet73
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Ok if ud like please post a link in the thread posted in wrong section to my guidelines and then report.
id rather come hone from work with 15 reported posts then to search around and see a flame war over something really stupid and trivial.
Jsparta26 said:
This was a great idea. I just want to say thank you to ramjet, pvstepup, and papasmurf for allowing a chance for normal members to come together and let members have a chance to clear the air of any matters that maybe unclear. This is one is for papasmurf: I notice more recently that you have locked quite a few threads with all having something to do with opinions of what's the best Rom or kernel. Now many of us get the idea that you are preventing flaming wars and trying to keep things civil. Myself and many others are wondering, is our hunches accurate?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yup ur spot on. In my dealing with these threads they turn ugly real fast. Devs get feelings hurt. Fan boys bash others roms or promote their favs. Its really all opinion and u know what they say about opinions. My suggestion is don't participate. In the og evo section we've instigated this rule and its prevented countless fights and clean up work for the mods
XDA Moderator
Mazda said:
Where do babies come from?? HAHAHAHA
Obviously I'm joking BUT I do have a serious question.
Why does the search feature go down once a day??
I know a lot of noobs don't notice this because they don't search BUT I use it all day long and I know I'm not the only one that finds this annoying!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Xda search is a google custom search, if it's down I just use google which typically yields similar results. I'm for real not trolling.
ramjet73 said:
Thanks to pstevep and papa smurf151 for opening this thread.
I'll try to start this in the spirit that I think it was intended by asking the mods what is the best way to handle a post that has been made in the wrong forum, something that rarely happens in the Evo 3d forums.
We don't want to discourage new users that might not know better, but there are detailed guidelines posted for the development forum by papa smurf151 as a sticky in that forum, and general guidelines for new threads in the Forum & Marketplace Rules post at the top of each forum.
In your opinions, is it appropriate to link those guidelines when a post is misplaced or better to just reference them and let the users find them on their own? It's a good exercise to find them yourself when you are not even aware that they exist, but sometimes that discourages users from actually reading them.
This may sound trivial so far, but my real question is whether or not we should report these posts. Is it helpful to the mods to report posts, or better to just wait until someone gets around to reviewing the new threads.
On a broader scale, when would you recommend that we report posts versus just leaving it to the mods to handle them?
ramjet73
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Click to collapse
Please please please please use report. There's only 3 of us fsm, plus pstevep. We can't see it all thread wise since we all moderate more than just this forum, but we can see the reports (and faster). PM's work too.
And I thought babies came from the cabbage patch. It's at least cool to have 1 thread for drama. ie. V6 supercharger
Sent from my Nexus S 4G using xda app-developers app
Where did the zero tolerance threads go?
iTzLOLtrain said:
Where did the zero tolerance threads go?
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It was retired. It was never meant to be here forever. It was a tool to calm things down. It worked and the reins were loosened as we do not like being dictators but will if need be.
XDA Moderator
Mazda said:
Where do babies come from?? HAHAHAHA
Obviously I'm joking BUT I do have a serious question.
Why does the search feature go down once a day??
I know a lot of noobs don't notice this because they don't search BUT I use it all day long and I know I'm not the only one that finds this annoying!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh the lovely search. It actually goes down when our custom cache gets corrupted on the server. Then our server guy has to rebuild cache which takes several hours typically. It's annoying for everyone, especially the server guy.
DarkRazorZ said:
Just a few questions. I'm not sure if these fall under the questions that are allowed to be asked, but:
1.] Is Agrabren simply not allowed to post CDMA builds anymore? I still don't truly understand the path his CDMA development has gone, it seems to come and go.
2.] To my understanding there are false GPL claims being made against him. How exactly are those claims made/handled? Is it an automated system? If not, wouldn't it be possible to tell which claims being made are just trolls?
3.] How do you guys put up with the drama so well? I would have lost my mind a long time ago :crying:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lord how did I know this type of question would be at the beginning.
1. He could post his CDMA build if he wanted to. Gpl wise he provides source. However due to circumstances that everyone is aware it is not being posted for the good of everyone involved. I told him that if he isn't going to post it though, we can't have it accessible from anything on here. Believe me for right now it's the greater good.
2. When a gpl claim is reported its handled ostensibly like any other report. Except that usually a senior mod and or a member of the dev committee is brought in to look at it. If there are any issues we address them with the dev in question. Agrabren's issues were looked into and addressed appropriately. Sometimes yes its easy to know when it's just trolling, but not always, it's a serious matter so we tend to take it seriously.
3. I honestly think my 3 year old had a lot to do with it for me. Calmed me down, made me more patient. Plus I'm the type of person who likes to fix things so I tend to try and defuse situations by nature. I think everyone deserves respect, and if you talk to me I will talk to you. If you work with me, i will work with you. I want what's best for the community.
Hope that helps.
ramjet73 said:
Thanks to pstevep and papa smurf151 for opening this thread.
I'll try to start this in the spirit that I think it was intended by asking the mods what is the best way to handle a post that has been made in the wrong forum, something that rarely happens in the Evo 3d forums.
We don't want to discourage new users that might not know better, but there are detailed guidelines posted for the development forum by papa smurf151 as a sticky in that forum, and general guidelines for new threads in the Forum & Marketplace Rules post at the top of each forum.
In your opinions, is it appropriate to link those guidelines when a post is misplaced or better to just reference them and let the users find them on their own? It's a good exercise to find them yourself when you are not even aware that they exist, but sometimes that discourages users from actually reading them.
This may sound trivial so far, but my real question is whether or not we should report these posts. Is it helpful to the mods to report posts, or better to just wait until someone gets around to reviewing the new threads.
On a broader scale, when would you recommend that we report posts versus just leaving it to the mods to handle them?
ramjet73
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Click to collapse
Just report instantly. Or you can pm me directly. I don't always see the reported posts as much as I'm mobile 75% of the time. I have a lot of gut feelings that pay off and I'm in the right place at the right time. I also have devs (not as much in the 3d forum) that will gtalk me when something is going down. But report as soon as you see it is the best Option.
EDIT: as for wrong posting. You can instruct the person politely that they are in the wrong forum, but still report so we can move it. Does that help?
il Duce said:
Please please please please use report. There's only 3 of us fsm, plus pstevep. We can't see it all thread wise since we all moderate more than just this forum, but we can see the reports (and faster). PM's work too.
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Where the heck have you been? There are 6 in here now not counting me. Granted one is fairly inactive, but still 6 listed.
Yeah six fsm in here but 3 fsm that are active at all.
plus u of course
XDA Moderator
il Duce said:
What they said ^
Also, as I am often seen as the more angry mod (I'm doing my best to curtail that), hopefully I'll be able to eloquently explain the reasons for my shortness.
Carry on.
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Why are you the angry mod? Was it something from your childhood?
In all seriousness, I don't see how you're considered the angry mod. You've always been helpful. In fact, I've noticed in the teamd3rp Q&A, you're one of the only ones answering questions.
Posted with Tapatalk 2
Why can't I find the anthrax kernel here I used to use it on meanrom but now I can't find it anywhere! I my opinion there is no better kernel.
That sucker flew not to mention I hate the stock kernel!
So could you point me to the anthrax GB kernel that would be great or at least who makes it! I only remember the name of it because it has the same name of my favorite band.
coal686 said:
Why are you the angry mod? Was it something from your childhood?
In all seriousness, I don't see how you're considered the angry mod. You've always been helpful. In fact, I've noticed in the teamd3rp Q&A, you're one of the only ones answering questions.
Posted with Tapatalk 2
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Because I go off on people.
spirithandler said:
Why can't I find the anthrax kernel here I used to use it on meanrom but now I can't find it anywhere! I my opinion there is no better kernel.
That sucker flew not to mention I hate the stock kernel!
So could you point me to the anthrax GB kernel that would be great or at least who makes it! I only remember the name of it because it has the same name of my favorite band.
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See attached
First, this is not a post to bash the mods, keep that BS elseware as I would like this to be actually read and taken seriously.
Second, to the mods, I understand this could have been sent as a PM but I am not willing to speak for everyone else so I am hoping this gives us an open mature forum to discuss this.
On to my point.
I just read a thread that was closed as "useless banter" because people should "read the threads" about roms before they install them. While I agree with the sentiment I can tell you I nearly always read these threads as they are sources of information that only someone who has read the whole thread, and or run a certain rom may know. This is how I narrow my search for a rom that is good for me. Once I have a feel for what is out there, then I pick a few roms, read about them, and finally try them.
When I first bought my galaxy S3 the first thing I did was to search for "best rom" threads, and from there narrowed down what I wanted. I quickly learned which roms were AoSP and which were stock etc. From there I was able to narrow it down to a couple roms, I wanted stock so I lost no functionality and stability. Over and over "cleanrom" was very clearly what I wanted, so I read about it in the original thread, and checked a couple roms, eventually I did in fact go with cleanrom.
When I bought my note 2 I did the exact same thing, even though Cleanrom was already established I found Beans was pretty similar and read about it.
Later I installed Beans and it just was not for me, so to this day I am still on cleanrom, however I have been "shopping" for a new rom for a while (Scott is no longer developing for the Note 2 after all) and to my dismay I find these threads being closed.
My point is this, there is no way I was going to read more than a couple rom threads with over 3 thousand bloody replies. I have owned the Note 2 long enough that now and then I get around to reading about some of the other roms, but I still have only scratched the serface. As I quoted before the "best rom" threads have been noted as "useless" however one of the first things I look for in a rom is one that is actually based on Verizon's firmware. I do this because not one international rom is fully functional. This is not a dig on them, it is just fact. No one has gotten MMS or signal extenders to work right. You can go through any thread and this question is asked on so many roms so many times it is ridiculous. Personally I much prefer to come to a "best rom" thread and find out what kind of roms are based on stock VZW than have to search through 10 roms looking for the answer... this does not even take into account that half the time I come to XDA lately the search box is missing (does that happen to anyone else?)
Again, I would really like this to be a flame free thread, if you agree with me, well state your reasons nicely, if you don't, please do the same. And on a side note, If the mods feel this thread is inappropriate they will let me know and or close the thread they really don't need your help telling me so
Well Said. While agreeing to show full respect for the Mods and their way of doing things, I could not agree more with you. I find "best rom" threads to be incredibly helpful and have never tried a rom that I didn't get pointed to from one.
They don't have them because it's not a ROM competition nor a site for users. It's for developers. If you've been around the Android game, you have to know how minor group MMS and network extender bugs are, almost not worth mentioning compared to even trying to run CyanogenMod on some phones (including ours!). If you want to be a user on this site, you're expected to do the research. The ROM's built on our SCH-I605VRAMC3 base make it clear they're built on it. Even if the base isn't clear, this stuff is all open-source! Dive into the github and figure it out. If that isn't something you feel you should be expected to do, don't use a development site.
joshm.1219 said:
They don't have them because it's not a ROM competition nor a site for users. It's for developers. If you've been around the Android game, you have to know how minor group MMS and network extender bugs are, almost not worth mentioning compared to even trying to run CyanogenMod on some phones (including ours!). If you want to be a user on this site, you're expected to do the research. The ROM's built on our SCH-I605VRAMC3 base make it clear they're built on it. Even if the base isn't clear, this stuff is all open-source! Dive into the github and figure it out. If that isn't something you feel you should be expected to do, don't use a development site.[/QUOT
While you make a couple good points, I think to box this site (XDA) in as only a "developers" web sight is stupid. There is so much more in these forums. I've been part of XDA since 2009, and I see you've been a member for a few months now. While I am sure you have contributed a truck load in your time and I have just really been on the outside looking in, I have been reading these forums far longer then you have and the majority of posts in these forums are people like me looking for help from people like you. And I will continue to say, that while I respect the decision to ban these types of posts, I think it's a mistake, when you can simply say "what kind of rom are you guys using" and all of sudden it's ok. IT's the same thing. I guess we'll just agree to disagree in the usefullness of these types of posts.
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You can tell by my low post count im a search button junkie. I too enjoy some of those best rom threads.
The biggest problem I guess I had with that threads closing was the reason.
Yes this is a Dev website, but thats a General discussion section. And thats about as general a topic as you can get. I guess if its worded like "I really like ROMxxxx" and a discussion starts comparing or recommendations for other roms is okay. But blatantly asking what rom is your fav isnt acceptable?
Also.. if those thread's are killed, ill be reading about how great v1 of beans is and nothing about v21.
Love the site.. mods will run it how they see fit.. just wanted to chime in, back to lurking.
Cheers
vballrkc said:
joshm.1219 said:
They don't have them because it's not a ROM competition nor a site for users. It's for developers. If you've been around the Android game, you have to know how minor group MMS and network extender bugs are, almost not worth mentioning compared to even trying to run CyanogenMod on some phones (including ours!). If you want to be a user on this site, you're expected to do the research. The ROM's built on our SCH-I605VRAMC3 base make it clear they're built on it. Even if the base isn't clear, this stuff is all open-source! Dive into the github and figure it out. If that isn't something you feel you should be expected to do, don't use a development site.[/QUOT
While you make a couple good points, I think to box this site (XDA) in as only a "developers" web sight is stupid. There is so much more in these forums. I've been part of XDA since 2009, and I see you've been a member for a few months now. While I am sure you have contributed a truck load in your time and I have just really been on the outside looking in, I have been reading these forums far longer then you have and the majority of posts in these forums are people like me looking for help from people like you. And I will continue to say, that while I respect the decision to ban these types of posts, I think it's a mistake, when you can simply say "what kind of rom are you guys using" and all of sudden it's ok. IT's the same thing. I guess we'll just agree to disagree in the usefullness of these types of posts.
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I've been doing this since the OG Droid, I didn't feel I knew enough to have input until a few months ago. I could really care less if there is best ROM threads or not, but I'm not going to complain about it because they are absolutely not needed. They only serve to reveal subjective opinions and limit new users from using ROM's that might not be as popular or are from newer developers. For example, MIUI-TW is a great great ROM but requires APN edits and more set-up to work compared to something easy like Beans, so it will never be as popular. Now for a new user to come in and never even bother to look at it because of this limits the appreciation that that developer deserves for even getting MIUI ported to our model. It also limits the learning on the side of the new user because they won't try that ROM assuming it sucks rather than it's simply not as easy to set-up as an aroma rom is. All I'm saying is that it's called XDA developers for a reason, it's a great source of information for everyone, but don't expect it to be catered to anyone outside of the development community or complain when it isn't. I'm more than happy it's public, the devs make their work public & free, and then most of the time go out of their way to help the rest of us. I don't need to ask for anything else.
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joshm.1219 said:
vballrkc said:
I've been doing this since the OG Droid, I didn't feel I knew enough to have input until a few months ago. I could really care less if there is best ROM threads or not, but I'm not going to complain about it because they are absolutely not needed. They only serve to reveal subjective opinions and limit new users from using ROM's that might not be as popular or are from newer developers. For example, MIUI-TW is a great great ROM but requires APN edits and more set-up to work compared to something easy like Beans, so it will never be as popular. Now for a new user to come in and never even bother to look at it because of this limits the appreciation that that developer deserves for even getting MIUI ported to our model. It also limits the learning on the side of the new user because they won't try that ROM assuming it sucks rather than it's simply not as easy to set-up as an aroma rom is. All I'm saying is that it's called XDA developers for a reason, it's a great source of information for everyone, but don't expect it to be catered to anyone outside of the development community or complain when it isn't. I'm more than happy it's public, the devs make their work public & free, and then most of the time go out of their way to help the rest of us. I don't need to ask for anything else.
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Your reason is also a good reason to have such threads. A new person not very experienced probably wouldnt want to start with an advanced rom install. However reading about it in a new thread might also help that person decide to try it because someone posted how easy or worthwhile it was to go through the editing or additional steps to install.
And by posting questions of this nature here, in the general section allows us.. the users of those roms, these forums, to answer those questions for devs, and moderators.
Cheers
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boomerbsg said:
Your reason is also a good reason to have such threads. A new person not very experienced probably wouldnt want to start with an advanced rom install. However reading about it in a new thread might also help that person decide to try it because someone posted how easy or worthwhile it was to go through the editing or additional steps to install.
And by posting questions of this nature here, in the general section allows us.. the users of those roms, these forums, to answer those questions for devs, and moderators.
Cheers
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That's what the threads are for lol. I mean you just listed exactly what they are. There's an OP with installation instructions. then a bunch of users praising or criticizing the ROM along with answering questions for the devs.
How would jumbling up all of that into one thread be better than separating it into a thread for each ROM?
Sent from my SCH-I605 using xda premium 2 beta
joshm.1219 said:
That's what the threads are for lol. I mean you just listed exactly what they are. There's an OP with installation instructions. then a bunch of users praising or criticizing the ROM along with answering questions for the devs.
How would jumbling up all of that into one thread be better than separating it into a thread for each ROM?
Sent from my SCH-I605 using xda premium 2 beta
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check this thread out:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2382148
Its someone talking about how much they like the stock rom, but want features from other roms on the stock rom. in the first page theres 2 rom makers pimping their roms.. and for good reason, their good roms. And do what the OP wants.
Then I actually learned something I didnt know about Beans and Xposed from that brief thread (that is nearly identical to what goes on in "Best rom" threads.
I didnt know about the Xposed framework, and that there are modules for it, theres no link nor real info on Beans main forum post here and Beans thread is 1900 pages deep.
So I got some good info from a small thread that by the very standard that killed off Best Rom threads, I probably would have gone much longer without knowing had it too been closed.
I get the need to maintain the standard on a forum, but thats the heart of any forum.. discussion, and much like life it gets repetitive in nature but its out of those that people new and old can learn things they didn't before. Someone may not be as experienced in Google-fu like us.
cheers
boomerbsg said:
check this thread out:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2382148
Its someone talking about how much they like the stock rom, but want features from other roms on the stock rom. in the first page theres 2 rom makers pimping their roms.. and for good reason, their good roms. And do what the OP wants.
Then I actually learned something I didnt know about Beans and Xposed from that brief thread (that is nearly identical to what goes on in "Best rom" threads.
I didnt know about the Xposed framework, and that there are modules for it, theres no link nor real info on Beans main forum post here and Beans thread is 1900 pages deep.
So I got some good info from a small thread that by the very standard that killed off Best Rom threads, I probably would have gone much longer without knowing had it too been closed.
I get the need to maintain the standard on a forum, but thats the heart of any forum.. discussion, and much like life it gets repetitive in nature but its out of those that people new and old can learn things they didn't before. Someone may not be as experienced in Google-fu like us.
cheers
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Xposed is talked about all the time in beans thread. it's a long thread but it just repeats itself over and over. Search is your friend. idk how you expect a best ROM thread to be able to give you more detailed definition about a single ROM. you're assuming that because you happened to catch something basic (Xposed has been on the front page of this site for months and is one of the biggest things to happen in the rooting community this year) in a small thread rather than a big one that it would be easier for you to gather information from a best ROM thread that instead of containing info for one ROM, contains info for all of them and would be a hell of a lot longer than beans ROM thread.
Sent from my SCH-I605 using xda premium 2 beta
All users need to familiarize themselves with the links in my signature below.
But more importantly, see this post http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=16682226&postcount=2441
We do appreciate all the wonderful users here in XDA - but! ... This site IS about development, developers, and the journey of said development. Users accepted these rules when they accepted MEMBERSHIP. XDA did not ask you to join, you asked XDA to join and we allowed you to come in.
This is not a support site, nor is this a social media site where people want to know about your feelings and all that stuff. Thus, folks asking about best roms lends toward the site being about support, if XDA allowed it, the site would be full of individual posts asking and no one would ever read or search, which are expectations of members here.
We do, however, allow some off -topic banter so users form alliances and hopefully that better serves development. Other than that, users are expected ALWAYS to follow posting rules.