Related
I'll start this thread in the hope that there'll be some good news soon.
I got my Touch Cruise on Friday and the device is absolutely fantastic but there is one huge problem with it. Using it either with the bare screen or with the screen protector supplied in the box, the smudges that get onto the screen are a real issue. It's not a case of cleaning it every day when you get home, it really is a case of pulling out a perfectly clean device, flicking up the cube to fire up the calculator, doing 60 seconds of calculations and then putting it away and even after that the screen is covered with smudges to an extent that bugs me. The saving grace is that, if a good screen protector can help solve this problem, then it's easy to apply as an aftermarket solution.
Do other people see the issue to the extent I do? (And my hands are actually fairly dry, I often have issues getting through fingerprint recognition at US immigration because there isn't enough grease on my fingertips.)
I'm told that Brando are working on a protector and I just had a quick play with my old O2 XDA Orbit which has a good screen protector on it (not a Brando but one of their big competitors whose name I forget but is another make that people tend to recommend) and it seemed to me that it was picking up far less muck than my TC one so maybe Brando or someone can ride to the rescue on this one.
- Julian
There is another thread about screen protectors here.
I use the supplied one without any problems different from any protector I have used. Just get the Veripart screen cleaner and clean your screen with it about once a week. looks like it leaves a coating on the screen. I am not sure about that, but my screen is shiny and nice
By the way, how can you get smuges from a non-greay finger
victoradjei said:
There is another thread about screen protectors here.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ah. Thanks for that. I was trying to do the right thing by posting into the "Accessories" sub-forum so that is where I looked for a previous thread but I did just find the other thread in the main Polaris forum, funnily enough not by looking through the forums but because that thread is the second hit on Google when I did a global search for "veripart screen cleaner" as a result of your reply. I'll definitely try Veripart.
Re: "how can you get smuges from a non-greay finger", I guess they're not totally non-greasy, just less greasy than average .
I'll still get a new screen protector for my TC though because the one that came with my device seems to have a little bit of adhesive missing right down in the bottom left corner, luckily only on the bit that covers the screen surround but, because it won't stick down, it makes it look as if there is a water stain on the device. I also find that the factory screen protector does dull the sensitivity of the screen a bit.
- Julian
I have the same problem with the supplied screen protector.
I found out that Brando will come out with two types of screen proctectors of which on is anti-glare. That's the one I want to try.
Just ordered this one:
http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...em=160199157845&_trksid=p3984.cTODAY.m238.lVI
If you don't know German, look at the picture depicting the structure of the material. Seems to be nice - anti-fingerprint, anti-glare, etc. Will report here as soon as I get it. There is no picture of the protector but I strongly hope it will cover the whole surface and not just the display area.
ingenious said:
Just ordered this one:
http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...em=160199157845&_trksid=p3984.cTODAY.m238.lVI
If you don't know German, look at the picture depicting the structure of the material. Seems to be nice - anti-fingerprint, anti-glare, etc. Will report here as soon as I get it. There is no picture of the protector but I strongly hope it will cover the whole surface and not just the display area.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It looks very interesting. I hope it works out for you. I'll look forward to hearing how it works.
I just experimented some more with my old (now dead) Artemis. Obviously with the device being dead all I can do is wipe my fingers and thumb around the screen with it switched off and then look at how marked it is. This is actually just fine though because the marks show up most when the device is off so the fact that the device doesn't power on isn't really an issue for these tests!
Anyway, I found the email confirmation for when I first placed the order and it was a Martin Fields Overlay Plus Screen Protector and my experiments above confirm in my mind that a good screen protector does make a huge difference as far as fingermarks are concerned, my old Artemis with the Martin Fields protector seems to pick up maybe 10% of the fingerprints compared to the in-the-box HTC protector on my Touch Cruise under about the same amount of finger dragging on each screen.
- Julian
Brando is now selling the antiglare screen protectors. Emailed them and they said that they cover the whole face, not just the touch screen portion. You can get them here:
http://shop.brando.com.hk/prod_detail.php?prod_id=02323&dept_id=&cat_id=0019
db
No, I'm not buying before I see it how it looks like. As I wrote above, I ordered one from eBay. It is 0.5mm more narrow than the screen area. But the worst is, there's not a hole in the surface for the secondary camera - there's a whole area cut out, like with scissors. Otherwise, the surface seems pretty diffuse. I haven't tried it yet, because if I remove and ruin my current protector and I don't like the new one, I won't have any
So I'm waiting for responses/pics from other protectors
Brando's version is unfortunately like the one ingenious got off of eBay - with the large cutout vs. individual holes. Can't imagine it would have been that hard to cut them properly I'd prefer Brando quality with HTC fit.
db
dcbehan said:
Brando's version is unfortunately like the one ingenious got off of eBay - with the large cutout vs. individual holes. Can't imagine it would have been that hard to cut them properly I'd prefer Brando quality with HTC fit.
db
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I bought one from Brando's for my Orbit 2.
Quality is top as usual.
But:
I think they do the large cutout to make them fit to both, the cruise and the orbit 2.
The result is: You can use them for both device, but they do fit perfect neither for the polaris nor for the orbit 2.
Especially with the orbit 2 there is a large gap at the top of the protected area.
So I have to say, I was used to get better quality from brando's
JueLue
Shame, shame... Hopefully they will make them better at some point. Now I don't want to put mine because I'm afraid that if I don't like it, I won't be able to put the original one again
as i said in the other post..
I ordered both versions of the regular screen protectors from DuraSec. (not the liquid one)
I will post some photos and comments when i get them.
xrrkrrkx said:
as i said in the other post..
I ordered both versions of the regular screen protectors from DuraSec. (not the liquid one)
I will post some photos and comments when i get them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks. Look forward to your post as my standard protectors's already looking suspect.
I ordered the more expensive ("self-healing") protector from Durasec and found it had the same problem as the Brando anti-glare protector: it refracts the light coming from the touchscreen, giving the pixels a broken-up, rainbow effect. Not nice or useful.
Guess I'm going to buy some more HTC ones, even though I ended up crumpling the first one out of frustration (bubbles, dust, etc).
hamishmacdonald said:
I ordered the more expensive ("self-healing") protector from Durasec and found it had the same problem as the Brando anti-glare protector: it refracts the light coming from the touchscreen, giving the pixels a broken-up, rainbow effect. Not nice or useful.
Guess I'm going to buy some more HTC ones, even though I ended up crumpling the first one out of frustration (bubbles, dust, etc).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've first put the one delivered by HTC with the Polaris. Except the fact that the sticker perfectly match with the Polaris Form, it need to be cleaned at least 50x per day..
I've finally buy a set of universal screen protector. Of course you've to cut it by yourself, but the quality is pretty excellent and the price is really competitive (5 pieces for a price less than for 1 brando).
hamishmacdonald said:
I ordered the more expensive ("self-healing") protector from Durasec and found it had the same problem as the Brando anti-glare protector: it refracts the light coming from the touchscreen, giving the pixels a broken-up, rainbow effect. Not nice or useful.
Guess I'm going to buy some more HTC ones, even though I ended up crumpling the first one out of frustration (bubbles, dust, etc).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why the HTC ones rather than the Brando Ultraclear? The thing I hate about the HTC protector is that it is no better than a bare screen as far as fingerprints are concerned. There is a thread running in the main Polaris forum (although a request has been made to the moderators to move it here) where other people are confirming how awful the HTC protector is re fingerpriints and also that the Brando UltraClear, although not as good as the AntiGlare regarding resistance to fingerprints, is a definite improvement on the HTC protector.
I confess that I'm still using the HTC protector but that's because I put it on my device immediately and now it's on I'm waiting a bit to decide what to replace it with. I don't like the Brando cutout but I think if pushed now I'd probably buy one of each Brando and see if I could live with the optical distortions of the AntiGlare and, if not, then use the UltraClear.
- Julian
P.S. I share your frustration re fitting these things; one of my least favorite activities.
I didn't try the Brando 'ultraclear' one -- I guess because I used one of these on a PDA years ago and found it to be 'ultraglare'. If I were sitting anywhere near sunlight, the screen became a mirror.
I suppose in the time since that's just become normal, as screens like the Touch Cruise are very shiny.
Looking at the various posts I think I'll go with the Brando UltraClear...
10$ + 3$ shipping is not so expensive (let's hope it will not be trapped by customs, in France that's pretty expensive even for a 10$ order).
Anyone aware about a way to get them from a European reseller instead of ordering directly to Brando in HK?
Thanks
DuraSec protectors
Hello all....
as i promised earlier i would report back once i got my DuraSec protectors and let you know how they are.
i just got them last night, so i ripped my HTC OEM one off, and put the cheaper "ClearTec" one on. on first impression, it is a slight bit TOO thin, as it is quite hard to get on without flipping and flopping around. Which in the end causes many small bubbles.
After some fiddling, i have it on looking semi-OK, and it doesnt mess with the screen clarity, nor refract light in any strange way that i can tell.
i do have a feeling that it will not last very long... but then again they market it as a temp. protector.
i will get back when i use the "HighTec".....
This is a possible way to improve the standard HTC screen protector which I'm pretty happy with except for one big issue, it offers absolutely no additional resistance against getting fingerprints all over the screen when not using the stylus and this is a big frustration for me.
Recently I decided to clean my protector using regular window cleaner that you can buy in supermarkets (I'm in the UK so I used "Non smear Windolene for glass and shiny surfaces"). I now only bother to wipe down the screen with a cloth every few days rather than after every few minutes of use which is what I had to do before (and yes, I do wash my hands very regularly!).
It's probably partly due to the fact that I've got better at remembering to try to use the fingernail side of my fingers rather than my fingertips but I think that a large part of it is due to the cleaner leaving some sort of coating because even when I deliberately do a few swipes with my thumb, which before would have left marks after even a single swipe, it is now pretty clear.
I didn't spray the cleaner straight onto the device by the way, that just seemed too risky, so I sprayed it onto a paper kitchen towel and then used that to apply the cleaner onto the screen.
For me I think this has improved things sufficiently that I might well just stay with the supplied protector.
- Julian
Hey guys, please vote here - who use screen protector with own TP2
And those who use, please describe here who is the manufacturer of your screen protector and your experience, how good is it for you.
Most recent HTC devices have come with pretty good screen protectors included in the box. I didn't use a screen protector on my first device, and I'm not making that mistake again.
anyone knows why they don't install it from the factory?
I voted and i own an x1. I use.
I've seen threads like this before and I've always wondered why there is even a debate on this topic. Why would anyone not use a screen protector?
My theory: The next person you see using a touch screen device with no screen protector, probably doesn't use one because he messed it up when applying it on the device.
ohyeahar said:
I've seen threads like this before and I've always wondered why there is even a debate on this topic. Why would anyone not use a screen protector?
My theory: The next person you see using a touch screen device with no screen protector, probably doesn't use one because he messed it up when applying it on the device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well the picture quality without it is much better, isn't it? I have now 3M protector on my HTC herald, and it doesn't look as clean as without it.
You should use the Crystal Clear type. You sometimes don't even noticed that it's being installed.
test157 said:
well the picture quality without it is much better, isn't it? I have now 3M protector on my HTC herald, and it doesn't look as clean as without it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's true, but when you use your device for some months without any protector, it will never be so clear as with a screenprotector (that you can replace when needed )
Ranney
Based on what I read in the accessories forum, I decided to try a Martin Fields one. Had it on for 2 days now - so far, so good. The one that came with the phone kept peeling off at the bottom edge near the buttons.
I didn't bother with my Vario III, as the ones I tried seriously affected the screen responsivness. Of course it got a key scratch in the first 3 months:-(
On my TP2 I installed the supplied one, and will get a Martin Fields one.
However I've got to return the unit (dodgy radio), so it is vital not to scratch it before returning it!
I messed upp my original screen protector
So i bought the Copter screenprotector from Skalshop.se it's a bit rubbery, but other than that it works good. It came with some liquid spray for aplying the protection. A bit tricky to apply but worked good in the end.
Martin Fields - where from you guys are buying them? I don't see them at ebay for TP2
also - are they really the BEST? or they just have the highest price?
The store from which I bought my TP2 gave me another screen protector - I haven't used the one that came with the device. Probably cost them less than US$1-2 to buy in bulk - I never pay more than US$8 for one retail
Using the one supplied with the evice and it works perfetly (I was against screen protetors when I had a Hermes, but with TP I can barely see it)
I once had a device and when I applied the screen protector I hated it. It improved sunlight visibility by refracting the light, unfortunately this made it harder to read fine print on the screen. I also couldn't remove the protector and was stuck with it. Another one I had tried before that one which was removable, reduced sensitivity too much.
Those are reasons not use one. But as long as the available protectors can be removed in case you don't like them, then it's worth trying them out. That way you don't risk your screen unecessarily.
SEQ said:
You should use the Crystal Clear type. You sometimes don't even noticed that it's being installed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's right! I use it and it's better than the one that HTC gives us: I have a new one because it was removed while in my pocket.. But now I'm happier!
I´m using touchscreen phones for many years (since my first PALM ) and i´ve noticed that the new screens are much more resistent. I think that you loose quality if you use a screen protector.
Just don´t put your phone in the same pocket that coins, keys,... and use it´s cover when putting it in a bag.
one other advantage with a phone like this should you choose not to use a screen protector is that since the phone has such a large screen and it's so touch optimized you won't get as much wear and tear on the common points of contact (like the "e" on the onscreen keyboard).
I use Proporta Screen Protectors. After I had used then in my Asus P535 I do not want another brand. They protect very well the screen, they were washable and also doesn't change too much the sensation of the touch with the pen or even with fingers.
I dont use one for a few reasons. I dont put my TP2 in any pocket with coins etc. I am pretty careful with it.
Although most importantly im insured on it, accidental damage w/ no excess to when the time comes it gets a bit dodgy ill smash it up and get a new one. If ive still got the TP2 when my contract runs out/upgrade ill probably wap a screen protector on then.
Hy! Does anyone has mirror screen protector like this? http://cgi.ebay.com/2-MIRROR-Screen...UK_Mobiles_Accessories_RL?hash=item19b63cfef6
Any info or pictures of it working with TP2 is welcomed!
MightyCrys said:
Hy! Does anyone has mirror screen protector like this? http://cgi.ebay.com/2-MIRROR-Screen...UK_Mobiles_Accessories_RL?hash=item19b63cfef6
Any info or pictures of it working with TP2 is welcomed!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes i do and i hate it. it gives a rainbow effect, the mirror effect is minimal, the screen is much darker£.
I do, not from that seller though. Mine are fantastic, I get compliments on them all the time, and an added bonus is that I always have a mirror to check my hair and makeup with!
Can you provide a link then?
I use a mirror screen protector on my htc touch pro 2. I sometimes makes a rainbox effect. But since the screen is black it's not that noticable. It's worth the buy because you get use to it very fast. Eventually you don't even think about it.
This mirror screen protector has saved me so many times. It's worth the buy.
I got 2 off ebay for less than $5.
Buy it, trust me it's worth the money.
I can upload a picture of how it looks on the weekend if you want. Just let me know.
kmx said:
This mirror screen protector has saved me so many times. It's worth the buy.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What did it save you from? Anything a non-mirror screen protector wouldn't have saved you from?
kmx said:
I got 2 off ebay for less than $5.
I can upload a picture of how it looks on the weekend if you want. Just let me know.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
These ones are under 5$ too, shipping free and I already ordered them, but I can't wait until they arrive. Can you please upload a picture or two?
Thanks!
fortunz said:
What did it save you from? Anything a non-mirror screen protector wouldn't have saved you from?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Whenever I finish eating food. I check my face to make sure it looks clean.
Before I work my charm on the girl I make sure I look good for them.
I will try to post a picture for you tonight or tomorrow.
kmx said:
Whenever I finish eating food. I check my face to make sure it looks clean.
Before I work my charm on the girl I make sure I look good for them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Heh. Wouldn't help me though. My face looks scarier when you can see it clearly.
Where here a re the pics of my tmobile htc touch pro 2 with a mirror screen protector.
Thanks a lot for the pics! I definetely like the look!
A note on mirrored screen protectors though: i dunno if its just the ones i've bought or if its all of them, but if you wear polarized sunglasses you will not be able to see through them unless you turn the screen sideways.
How do these affect display? I assume the display is overall less bright, or a bit washed out?
It does not realy affect the display when you are indoors.
But when you're outside it's a different story. I have the brightness almost on max because the blaring sunlight makes the screen very reflective.
But you tend to get use to it.
Plus the benefits of having one totally outweigh the cons.
You would be surprise at how ofter you would check yourself out once since it's so convineint. Plus the ladies love it also
Say you want to look at somebody in back of you without turning your head, just put up your phone at the angle you want it, and Bam you have eyes in the back of your head
Obviously people's tolerances will be different, but my reading on these is that there is an effect indoors as well, however minor. A perfectly clear protector will obviously allow your display to be brighter and clearer in all conditions than one with a measure of opacity.
The novelty benefits of a mirror protector do come with a cost of visibility. kmx seems willing to bear the burden for the benefits, but not everyone feels the cost is so low, even indoors. If you're really curious, hit up youtube. There are some video reviews of mirror protectors on there.
Got mine from Amazon. Took it off on third day. Lots of VERY visible scratches and some sort of golden glare. A
At first I loved it, but then these scratches were just too much.
So here's a crazy question or 3;
1) would it stick to the back of the phone (I don't know if the full body protection products use the exact same material for screen and body protection)?
2) I was thinking I could cut it to size and use the mirror on the back to a) have a mirror on the back and b) it might be useful for self portraits with the camera (mine is a TMo, camera on the back)
3) Would it still be a mirror if it wasn't attached to the glass but instead to the plastic back?
would it stick to the back of the phone (I don't know if the full body protection products use the exact same material for screen and body protection)?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Probably not well. Full body protection does typically use the type of material for their own screen protectors as their own body protectors, but it's not the same stuff most screen protector companies use. A lot of plain screen protectors actually "stick" by way of a staticy cling rather than adhesive. I'm pretty sure all body protectors use some adhesive for screen and body.
If you did find a mirrored protector that used adhesive, you'd further have to worry about whether that adhesive could harm the body of your device. It's probably only tested for application and removal from a screen, and might react differently to non-screen material.
Finally, there's a lot of curve to the TP2, even on the mostly flat back. That's going to make sticking something designed for a completely flat surface (the screen) harder. Looking at it, I'd think you'd have to cut an awful lot, down to a very narrow strip, and not a very effective mirror, before even an adhesive based mirror protector would work.
I'm not trying to be a buzzkill, I hope you can find something to suit your needs (a mirrored case?), but beware of the above issues.
fortunz said:
...I'm not trying to be a buzzkill...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
not at all, thank you for the thoughtful reply.
I think my best bet is to campaign the protection companies (Bodyguardz, etc.) to make a mirrored version of their case protection. Or an OEM to make a chrome replacement backplate! Or, it might be interesting to see the effect of spraying the backplate of an old phone with chrome paint.
can we get some links to those mirror protectors?
Hello everyone, i've seen there are a lot films for the screen.
I need to replace it, but as far as i've seen, HTC does one which comes 9.9€;
Should i take it??
Or should i go for the ebay's one?
http://cgi.ebay.it/PELLICOLA-PROTEG...er_palmari&hash=item230540da2e#ht_9707wt_1137
http://cgi.ebay.it/PELLICOLA-PROTEG...r_Cellulari&hash=item1e5ce047b6#ht_2183wt_911
http://cgi.ebay.it/PELLICOLA-salvas...r_Cellulari&hash=item2a09286a7b#ht_3432wt_911
http://cgi.ebay.it/5x-Pellicola-pro..._cellulari&hash=item5adb71b295#ht_10098wt_911
are there any differences??
thanks!!
I suggest to get the cheapest on. I,ve ordered alot of screen protector for my phones and they are all about the same thing.
I've ordered those one at 0.99$ from China and do the Job #1. I change it as soon as the shiny finis is gone (after 3-4 month)
don't get it too thik because you lose touch screen sensibility.
i was just about to buy the htc's..
I don't know which flavor phone you have, but AT&T currently has a three pack online for $5.00
http://www.wireless.att.com/cell-ph...060233&q_manufacturer=htc&q_model=prod4000225
I ordered three packs as the phone is no longer online and I am sure these will be gone soon too.
Get the AT$T ones as they are a perfect fit. I bought some off eBay and while they fit they were just slightly larger overall. This makes them not sit flat on the screen giving you a slight bubble along the edge and you can feel the edge with your finger when you slide it across. I've lifted mine inadvertently a few time because of this.
mirror screen
I saw an Ipod with a mirror screen once and i believe there out for rhodiums as well. can anyone reccomend a good one thats cheep?
dark_angelfighter17 said:
I saw an Ipod with a mirror screen once and i believe there out for rhodiums as well. can anyone reccomend a good one thats cheep?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's exactly the reason i entered this thread. I have had a pair of mirror screen protector sitting in a drawer for moooonthssss. The previous one was my first, but it did the job and time forbiding, i left it alone. But tonight i took a few minutes and installed the first of my mirrored screen protectors!!!
WOW
i don't get why all the others are still available. People you won't believe it!
I didn't pick any specific ebay seller. Just hit the cheapest i saw( i also bought the tv out thingy from the same seller, haven't tried that one out either)
You may read around that it darkens the screen a bit. That may well be so but no remarkably enough to stop you from using it!
schumifer1 said:
That's exactly the reason i entered this thread. I have had a pair of mirror screen protector sitting in a drawer for moooonthssss. The previous one was my first, but it did the job and time forbiding, i left it alone. But tonight i took a few minutes and installed the first of my mirrored screen protectors!!!
WOW
i don't get why all the others are still available. People you won't believe it!
I didn't pick any specific ebay seller. Just hit the cheapest i saw( i also bought the tv out thingy from the same seller, haven't tried that one out either)
You may read around that it darkens the screen a bit. That may well be so but no remarkably enough to stop you from using it!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Update.
All good, apart from direct sunlight. Everyphone suffers in that area, mirror screen protector sucks worse!
Honestly get the Zagg ones. I dropped my HTC Touch Pro 2 twice, while running, face DOWN, and it skidded for like 5 feet. I've got scratches on the inside of the phone, on the case, but the screen itself is perfect. Best money I ever spent.
doyama said:
Honestly get the Zagg ones. I dropped my HTC Touch Pro 2 twice, while running, face DOWN, and it skidded for like 5 feet. I've got scratches on the inside of the phone, on the case, but the screen itself is perfect. Best money I ever spent.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I second the Zagg. Garanteed protection. I am done with those cheap dozen for a penny protectors that last maybe a month, bubble up, don't fit, peal off, etc, etc... Sure they are cheap, but what a waste of time...
I typically go with the full body style from Zagg to provide an almost complete protection of the phone and enhance the style. You can buy them from Zagg.com, Amazon.com or if you prefer the touchy feely you can typically get them at Best Buy. Come with an applicator spray and squeegie to ensure there are NO bubbles!
Just my 2¢...
Hi I find that the advent vega is pretty reflective and am wondering what are peoples opinions on getting a screen protector for it? Also noticed the original one or one off ebay too.... any idea which would be better? Thanks.
bought some off ebay 2 for £9 cant fault them work like a charm
Any one else have any input? In day light it is almost imposible to use the tablet I have found.....
There are some screen protectors that does a great job on ipad however, bear in mind the screen quality/type is very important. so you can't expect the great view ability even with the best screen protector on vega.
I bought myself one and it actually made it worse. so I am using it without and try to find a shade if I am outside
I am using the standard one from Dixons / PC Word which certainly cuts down reflections and fingerprints, but you will lose some brightness.
dmarchant said:
I am using the standard one from Dixons / PC Word which certainly cuts down reflections and fingerprints, but you will lose some brightness.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not fussed about loosing brightness, just hate that in the light you pretty much cant see the screen!
So maybe it is Dixons then!
I did buy one of the "official" screen protectors from PC World but hated it, it has a matt finish, and made a rasping noise every time I slid my finger across the screen. I binned it and got one from Poundland and cut it to size, miles better.
I think Poundland will be the place for me, even if it is an iPad one, all the protectors I have seen on ebay are for the screen only, not the whole tablet, unless anyone points me elsewhere