Greetings all,
This is my first post here. I hope to make it a memorable one.
Really; I've been programming on the UNIX system for more than 20 years.
Having picked up and activated a brand new HTC-EVO android-2.2 (froyo) 4
days ago. I discover "big brother's watching" (google). This is completely unacceptable. Looking for the definitive answer brings me to XDA. So, I spent the past 2 days reading threads here. But can't shake the notion that all of this "rooting" seems overly complicated. I mean if android runs atop Linux, WTF is all this MS-DOS BS? Granted, I'm new to the EVO, but in UNIX, it seems that a simple:
Code:
# su
password
# mkdir /evoandroid
# mount /dev/android-device /evoandroid
dd if=<your-ROM-name-here> of=/evoandroid
would suffice.
This above is only slightly different for Linux - but I think you get the picture.
Sure. I know the SDK && NDK are written for MS-DOS & Co.
But what's that got to do with writing a "rooted" ROM to the EVO?
Because Windows users use the EVO too?
Sorry, but what am I missing here? Would love to start writing a self-made ROM to my new EVO. In fact I've already nearly finished a compilation that features an almost indistinguishable OS X. But hate to move any farther forward w/o clearing this "nit" I have with writing to the EVO.
Thank you for all your time and consideration.
--Chris
I don't understand your question. Can you clarify, and I'm sure someone will be glad to help if possible.
You can download Windows, Mac, and Linux versions of the SDK & NDK, so I'm not sure why you think they are Windows specific. (Many, if not most, ROM devs use Ubuntu since compiling AOSP & kernel source works well on it.)
If there is some part of the rooting process for the EVO that requires Windows, then that might be better directed to the EVO specific forums. I have helped to root one EVO myself, and it was done from a Mac. Things may have changed though.
Hello gnarlyc, and thank you for your reply.
gnarlyc said:
I don't understand your question. Can you clarify, and I'm sure someone will be glad to help if possible.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OK fair enough. I'll try to be more concise.
Currently, it is my understanding, that to "get root" on the EVO. One must download the SDK && NDK. Then use the tools provided there-in to "get root".
Yes, I am aware that you also need some of the wonderful utilities provided by the "dev's" here at XDA.
But I wonder why it wouldn't be simpler to mount(8) ( http ://internethell.net/man/?query=mount ) the EVO (rom & sdcard), and simply write the custom ROM "raw" right to the EVO's live rom.
eg; on a *NIX boxen
Code:
# su
password
# mkdir /evoandroid
# mount /dev/evo-device /evoandroid
# dd if=./custom-rom.img of=/evoandroid
see: http ://internethell.net/man/?query=dd
Done. That was easy, wasn't it.
gnarlyc said:
You can download Windows, Mac, and Linux versions of the SDK & NDK, so I'm not sure why you think they are Windows specific. (Many, if not most, ROM devs use Ubuntu since compiling AOSP & kernel source works well on it.)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was aware of the source being *NIX. But when I went to HTC, they presented me with only the Windows version. Perhaps, they felt I was on Windows, based on some browser "sniffing" thing. Dunno. I don't have Windows on anything. But occasionally on one of my BSD servers, I'll mount it in a Virtualbox VM.
Thanks for your info here. I'll go back and get the Mac version. I don't suppose it supports Apple Macs?
gnarlyc said:
If there is some part of the rooting process for the EVO that requires Windows,
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
See above.
gnarlyc said:
then that might be better directed to the EVO specific forums.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Couldn't find the HTC-EVO phone as a separate forum - like the other EVO's.
gnarlyc said:
I have helped to root one EVO myself, and it was done from a Mac. Things may have changed though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't feel I'd have any trouble "rooting" it. I just felt that all of the "tut's" I've found here were un-necessarily complicated - overly complex. So I'm wondering why my example above wouldn't work.
Thank you again gnarlyc, for your thoughtful response.
--Chris
CTH-EVO said:
Hello gnarlyc, and thank you for your reply.
OK fair enough. I'll try to be more concise.
Currently, it is my understanding, that to "get root" on the EVO. One must download the SDK && NDK. Then use the tools provided there-in to "get root".
Yes, I am aware that you also need some of the wonderful utilities provided by the "dev's" here at XDA.
But I wonder why it wouldn't be simpler to mount(8) ( http ://internethell.net/man/?query=mount ) the EVO (rom & sdcard), and simply write the custom ROM "raw" right to the EVO's live rom.
eg; on a *NIX boxen
Code:
# su
password
# mkdir /evoandroid
# mount /dev/evo-device /evoandroid
# dd if=./custom-rom.img of=/evoandroid
see: http ://internethell.net/man/?query=dd
Done. That was easy, wasn't it.
I was aware of the source being *NIX. But when I went to HTC, they presented me with only the Windows version. Perhaps, they felt I was on Windows, based on some browser "sniffing" thing. Dunno. I don't have Windows on anything. But occasionally on one of my BSD servers, I'll mount it in a Virtualbox VM.
Thanks for your info here. I'll go back and get the Mac version. I don't suppose it supports Apple Macs?
See above.
Couldn't find the HTC-EVO phone as a separate forum - like the other EVO's.
I don't feel I'd have any trouble "rooting" it. I just felt that all of the "tut's" I've found here were un-necessarily complicated - overly complex. So I'm wondering why my example above wouldn't work.
Thank you again gnarlyc, for your thoughtful response.
--Chris
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok, I think I get you now. I don't think this will work though. The running image is on an internal partition. Maybe you can mount that? I don't think so though. It doesn't seem to me that mounting the sdcard will get you anywhere. So many 'impossible' things have already been done with Android, so I wouldn't count you out completely.
http://android-dls.com/wiki/index.php?title=HOWTO:_Unpack,_Edit,_and_Re-Pack_Boot_Images
Kernel source for HTC phones - http://developer.htc.com/
Android Open Source Project source - http://source.android.com/source/download.html
Android SDK - http://developer.android.com/sdk/index.html
Android NDK - http://developer.android.com/sdk/ndk/index.html
I recommend this script for grabbing AOSP source on Debian/Ubuntu - http://blog.coralic.nl/2010/01/28/build-eclair-aka-android-2-1-for-hero-from-source/
You can change 'eclair' to 'froyo' for Android 2.2 source. It's good to look at this even if you don't use a Debian based distro, although it's mostly the same stuff that's on Google's site.
EVO forum - http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=653
I don't think there's more than one EVO, but maybe I'm wrong. The internal name is 'Supersonic', btw. You might see that in places.
Won't this root method work? - http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=787304
Some other light reading -
http://android-dls.com/wiki/index.php?title=HOWTO:_Unpack,_Edit,_and_Re-Pack_Boot_Images
http://forum.androidcentral.com/hacking/6037-general-rom-faq.html
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=633246
http://blog.coralic.nl/2010/01/28/build-eclair-aka-android-2-1-for-hero-from-source/
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=622916
http://forum.androidcentral.com/htc...how-build-your-own-kernel-package-source.html
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=6738713&postcount=1
http://www.kandroid.org/android_pdk/index.html
http://android-dls.com/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page
https://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AcdxIJRSH9ypZGZzc2pxNDlfMjdnazk4OHNxZA&hl=en
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=641223
http://adrianvintu.com/blogengine/post/Colored-Logcat-Script-for-Windows.aspx
http://www.androidenea.com/2009/08/init-process-and-initrc.html
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=623976
http://lukasz.szmit.eu/2009/12/making-your-own-rooted-android-rom.html
http://androidguts.com/index.php/Main_Page
http://groups.google.com/group/android-kernel
http://groups.google.com/group/android-building
http://groups.google.com/group/android-porting
http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers
http://groups.google.com/group/android-ndk
http://groups.google.com/group/android-platform
Greetings gnarlyc.
Let me first preface this by saying how grateful I am for all the time and effort you put into your last reply - WOW.
I don't want to sound argumentative. But just for the record, when I plug my EVO into one of my BSD servers, it immediately sees both the running system, and the sdcard. While I haven't yet attempted to mount the live system. I will endeavor to do so when I can determine what state I need to have the phone in to safely mount it. I'll report back to you with my results.
I have a strong suspicion I'll be posting a "one step to root and ROM" here within a week. That should help a lot of folks out.
I primarily develop in, and on the BSD family of operating systems. But given the Linux ABI support on BSD, I've made my development workstation dual-boot BSD/Fedora 13. But given the workstation is an AMD X4 six-core 4Ghz
board. I've decided to cobble up a copy of OS X (Apple CPU) to install on it as well - see; triple-boot. I'm just about to install it in the next couple of days. But thought I'd take a break on that development, and play with my new toy.
I should also have a copy of OS X for the EVO before long. Think anyone would be interested?
Well, I may not be new to development, but this EVO is new territory for me. So I'd do well to take advantage of the wealth of information you've thoughtfully provided me.
Best wishes to you gnarlyc, and thanks again.
--Chris
CTH-EVO said:
Greetings gnarlyc.
Let me first preface this by saying how grateful I am for all the time and effort you put into your last reply - WOW.
I don't want to sound argumentative. But just for the record, when I plug my EVO into one of my BSD servers, it immediately sees both the running system, and the sdcard. While I haven't yet attempted to mount the live system. I will endeavor to do so when I can determine what state I need to have the phone in to safely mount it. I'll report back to you with my results.
I have a strong suspicion I'll be posting a "one step to root and ROM" here within a week. That should help a lot of folks out.
I primarily develop in, and on the BSD family of operating systems. But given the Linux ABI support on BSD, I've made my development workstation dual-boot BSD/Fedora 13. But given the workstation is an AMD X4 six-core 4Ghz
board. I've decided to cobble up a copy of OS X (Apple CPU) to install on it as well - see; triple-boot. I'm just about to install it in the next couple of days. But thought I'd take a break on that development, and play with my new toy.
I should also have a copy of OS X for the EVO before long. Think anyone would be interested?
Well, I may not be new to development, but this EVO is new territory for me. So I'd do well to take advantage of the wealth of information you've thoughtfully provided me.
Best wishes to you gnarlyc, and thanks again.
--Chris
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No problem. I'm wrong at least once per day, but that's ok as long as I realize it and learn from it. I hope you are able to work it out.
I've seen 'rooting' of the Eris go from installing a leaked ROM to doing some crazy timing with pulling out the sdcard (or something like that) to a 1-click app that's on the market. Some really determined, knowledgeable, and intelligent people have put a lot of time into making these things easier and better. Welcome to the community!
A copy of OS X for the EVO? Do you mean running on the EVO? If so, then I'm sure people would be interested from a purely geeky perspective. There are several phones out there with the option to install Ubuntu and/or Debian on them. They don't seem to be of practical use yet. Can you cross-compile Darwin for arm CPUs? Maybe I'm confused here... My knowledge of such things only runs so deep.
(Side note - I keep those links in a text file just for such occasions. I don't see why everyone should have to spend their time searching for the sites that I already know about.)
gnarlyc said:
No problem. I'm wrong at least once per day, but that's ok as long as I realize it and learn from it. I hope you are able to work it out.
I've seen 'rooting' of the Eris go from installing a leaked ROM to doing some crazy timing with pulling out the sdcard (or something like that) to a 1-click app that's on the market. Some really determined, knowledgeable, and intelligent people have put a lot of time into making these things easier and better. Welcome to the community!
A copy of OS X for the EVO? Do you mean running on the EVO? If so, then I'm sure people would be interested from a purely geeky perspective.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, and no. The "apps" and android are made with Java - something Oracle is currently sueing Google for as I speak (Google clams "clean-room" in-house Java, Oracle claims otherwise). So for all practical purposes, there is no reason that those same "apps" found on the phones, and in the "market" can't be made to run on OS X. In fact, it opens the doors to additional "apps" that otherwise wouldn't be possible - iTunes, for example.
gnarlyc said:
There are several phones out there with the option to install Ubuntu and/or Debian on them. They don't seem to be of practical use yet. Can you cross-compile Darwin for arm CPUs?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Glad you asked. BSD (which is what "hosts" NeXT/Darwin) has no problems with ARM, and I'm confident that I can manipulate Darwin to work on Snapdragon.
gnarlyc said:
Maybe I'm confused here... My knowledge of such things only runs so deep.
(Side note - I keep those links in a text file just for such occasions. I don't see why everyone should have to spend their time searching for the sites that I already know about.)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm really glad you do - it really helped me a lot not having to weed all these "jewls" out. Thank you very much for sharing them with me, I appreciate it!
Best wishes to you gnarlyc, and have a wonderful day.
--Chris
Are they doing something similar to what you are talking about?
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=788554
gnarlyc said:
Are they doing something similar to what you are talking about?
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=788554
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the link gnarlyc.
I thought about something similar to this when I first thought about "rooting" the phone; making a system folder on the sdcard, then "soft linking" it to /system.
Problem being, the performance hit using the sdcard for system related tasks made this option undesirable.
Thanks again for sharing the link, gnarlyc.
OH, one thing though, my phone is not linked to google. I have no google account(s). I activated this phone in "developer mode". Meaning that there is no personal info to worry about "attached" to this phone. Making it an ideal candidate for creating a bone-stock ROM for recovery/hacking purposes. I don't suppose you can direct me to "cloning" this phone. So that I might share this w/others as a ROM suitable for un-bricking their phone, could you?
HTC-EVO (supersonic) s/w# 3.26.651.6, baseband# 2.15.00.07.28, PRI version 1.71_003, andriod 2.2
Thanks again.
--Chris
Can I ask, what do you mean by "big brother (Google) is watching"?
CTH-EVO said:
Thanks for the link gnarlyc.
I thought about something similar to this when I first thought about "rooting" the phone; making a system folder on the sdcard, then "soft linking" it to /system.
Problem being, the performance hit using the sdcard for system related tasks made this option undesirable.
Thanks again for sharing the link, gnarlyc.
OH, one thing though, my phone is not linked to google. I have no google account(s). I activated this phone in "developer mode". Meaning that there is no personal info to worry about "attached" to this phone. Making it an ideal candidate for creating a bone-stock ROM for recovery/hacking purposes. I don't suppose you can direct me to "cloning" this phone. So that I might share this w/others as a ROM suitable for un-bricking their phone, could you?
HTC-EVO (supersonic) s/w# 3.26.651.6, baseband# 2.15.00.07.28, PRI version 1.71_003, andriod 2.2
Thanks again.
--Chris
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you have a custom recovery partition like Amon_Ra's, you can do a NAND backup to the sdcard. It's basically a snapshot of the currently flashed ROM. That should work just fine. NAND's can be manipulated in dsixda's kitchen (although I haven't tried it, the option is there and dsixda has things together pretty well) and I THINK you should be able to copy one from one EVO to another and do a restore.
A side note... Generally when people create the ROMs that are out there, they do not include the directories under /data that might have personal info, so you can actually create a bone-stock ROM like you want without using a phone in such a state as yours. I've flashed a lot of different ROMs, and I'm pretty sure that none of them had identifying information about the dev unless they purposely did something like put their name in the build.prop or the wallpaper. Generally, if they include a /data, it's just for /data/app, although there are exceptions like when they want to change a database or something else that might be under /data.
As far as I know, your phone won't be linked to Google until you sign in with the Google account. I've gone several days on a fresh ROM without setting that up. Eventually, I find I want to install something from the Market, so I go ahead and sign in...
MaybachMan said:
Can I ask, what do you mean by "big brother (Google) is watching"?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Greetings MaybachMan.
Yes. Of course you may.
What I mean by that, is that is that Google monitors your activity. To what extent,
all depends on what applications you use, and to what extent you have a relation
with Google - Gmail, Google search, or any other Google application/account you
have with Google. Myself, on the other hand, I activated my EVO in "developer" mode.
I have no Gmail account, or any other relationship/account with Google.
Google needs your data. Google is a "data miner" that's what Google does.
I don't have a problem with their chosen line of business. I simply choose not to be
part of the data they "mine" - to the extent I am able.
Meaning in the context of my OP; I want to remove most (if not all) of the Google apps
on my EVO - including the Market app.
I hope I have cleared things up for you, MaybachMan.
Thanks for your reply.
--Chris
gnarlyc said:
If you have a custom recovery partition like Amon_Ra's, you can do a NAND backup to the sdcard. It's basically a snapshot of the currently flashed ROM. That should work just fine. NAND's can be manipulated in dsixda's kitchen (although I haven't tried it, the option is there and dsixda has things together pretty well) and I THINK you should be able to copy one from one EVO to another and do a restore.
A side note... Generally when people create the ROMs that are out there, they do not include the directories under /data that might have personal info, so you can actually create a bone-stock ROM like you want without using a phone in such a state as yours. I've flashed a lot of different ROMs, and I'm pretty sure that none of them had identifying information about the dev unless they purposely did something like put their name in the build.prop or the wallpaper. Generally, if they include a /data, it's just for /data/app, although there are exceptions like when they want to change a database or something else that might be under /data.
As far as I know, your phone won't be linked to Google until you sign in with the Google account. I've gone several days on a fresh ROM without setting that up. Eventually, I find I want to install something from the Market, so I go ahead and sign in...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you gnarlyc! You're a "pillar of wisdom" where these phones are concerned.
I really appreciate your sharing it with me.
Best wishes, and thanks again gnarlyc.
--Chris
CTH-EVO said:
Thank you gnarlyc! You're a "pillar of wisdom" where these phones are concerned.
I really appreciate your sharing it with me.
Best wishes, and thanks again gnarlyc.
--Chris
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, thank you. At least one of the voices tells me that's why I'm here. I'm still learning, and I find it easier to pass on what I learn if I learned it recently. Since I just got this phone in March, nearly everything I know about it is pretty fresh!
In addition the "big brother" post. The book 1984 I believe is where it comes from. The author is George Orwell and usually this book refers to things in society today as an Orwellian society. It's a really great book anyone who has spare time should really check it out if they like conspiracies, apocalyptic scenarios etc.
@CTH-EVO - I understand having a little linux background myself why you feel the way you do that you could just dd a raw image to the phone but there are a few issues with that, that I would like to clarify with you.
It's not entirely impossible. We have seen that around here many times.
However....
1. To clarify, Android is NOT general linux in the form you think of it. It's definitely HAS a beautiful open source twin sister (AOSP) but HTC's version of sense is locked down, restricted, and tight. But there are other reasons why..
2. The boot process... By default you can't mount the system directory to be writable, only readable which wouldn't make a hill a beans difference if you try to use dd. It would just produce error:unwritable.
To iterate further into this subject though, there is also the boot process and the partitions that go with that. Let me go ahead and get the boot process out of the way first:
**Generic Boot Process**
1.SelfCheck
2.Radio
3.S-on/S-off (developer mode only)
4.Recovery (if installed)
5.Rom
By default when the system boots it is directed specifically from the radio (unless s-on is installed) to the system partition, which by default the system partition locks any root needed functions out (including writablility from external sources).
One other thing of note, the phone more than welcomes ANY linux o.s. to see the internal phone storage, just that you can't write to it unless you have root.
However I also would like to inform you that there are universal root programs getting easier and easier these days to use so you don't have to download all this and that, and most phones now you don't even have to have a computer to root it.
Here's what is involved in the rooting process:
1. Exploit code to inject code for root access (done from shell of phone)
2. root files (permissions program, etc)
3. recovery flash. (flashed to it's own 'sub' partition)
Actually come to think of it you used to have to boot into recovery to root (well.. not really a recovery but the stock wiping/reset program) And you could possibly get dd to flash the system from there, but the real issue here is just not bricking the device.
The device itself is of course just one memory bank partitioned into different places. If you use dd to flash a raw image to the rom, it would wipe out EVERYTHING would it not? And not JUST the regular rom partitions? This would be sweet if you can set up an entire phone's system including bootstrap, radio, and recovery (effectively unbricking probably 3/4 the bricked phones out there right now) but if it's unsuccessful, or unfinished then would it not brick it entirely?
Hope this helps you out!
Related
Hi All,
I have been checking a lot of ROM's recently i have find 2-3 settings in all ROM's which might sound a good choice for dev's however i am not sure whether they should be the same for user or not.
Some of the samples include
Code:
chmod 0777 /system
and all internal places.
this effectively allows us to do a adb push easily and without any hassels however per my study this allow just about anyone to mingle with any file whatsoever on my system.
Note : Having root of my own device to tinker with it is one thing. and handing over my device all permissions to someone else is another thing.
also another setting which bothers me is
Code:
ro.secure=0
which effectively allows adb to open shell in root mode directly.
can any dev help me in understand is this necessary for normal users.
also the reason why this thread is here is coz this needs discussion as this could very well turn out to be a security issues, as android platform is starting to get the limelight so will be getting eyes of both good and bad too....
also would love if someone can help me in compiling tips for normal users what they need to do and not do.
example
USB debugging should only be enabled when it is needed and not everytime.
Mod's I hope i am not voilating any rules by posting this here.
My point of view is cleary no and the obvious reason for that is that most users dont really know what they're doing, just try (most of the times to reach performance) something that someone who knows what are doing to get this or that.
I think what needs to be done is something like linux system.
You may have root but to get some modifications at least should appear some kind of msg or password needed like super root (is this the name? Cant remember, but you know what im talking )
Edit:
I wonder with some behavior of some guys and with super root access that de had what could happen to the most of users around here if we have a real bootloader crack instead of bypass. Probably need to be rich to buy a new like avery week
Cheers old IBM'ER friend
Sent from my X10i using Tapatalk
Wait, rendeiro, I think you meant Super User. But SU=Root. SU is just a method to make things simpler and safer as logging in directly as root is very dangerous.
@OP -- by CHMOD-ing the system folder to 777, you're completely vulnerable. 777 basically allows everyone to access it.
I'm not sure about the ro.secure=0 setting, but the default value is 1 instead of 0, root exploits change the value to 0 -- which lowers the security, hence allows you to be root. I think this value is also available in the kernel, just like what D did with Arc's insecure kernel -- yes, it makes the kernel insecure to allow you to root your phone.
@Hzu
You're write about the name I just forgot it since I wont use linux for about four years (since I work where im on now) but I think you get my point
Cheers
Sent from my X10i using Tapatalk
But you are still right though, people messing with the system without knowing what they are doing, and then blames the system for corrupting.
Seems like OP has did research, it should be OK for him to continue his research.
Hzu said:
Wait, rendeiro, I think you meant Super User. But SU=Root. SU is just a method to make things simpler and safer as logging in directly as root is very dangerous.
@OP -- by CHMOD-ing the system folder to 777, you're completely vulnerable. 777 basically allows everyone to access it.
I'm not sure about the ro.secure=0 setting, but the default value is 1 instead of 0, root exploits change the value to 0 -- which lowers the security, hence allows you to be root. I think this value is also available in the kernel, just like what D did with Arc's insecure kernel -- yes, it makes the kernel insecure to allow you to root your phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thats what i also thought and that's why posted here to make everyone atleast think once.
ro.secure setting i understand is to allow adb to run as root or not... basically ro.secure 1 disallows pushing to /system... also it puts you to $ prompt and you need to manually su.
Another thing i notices is we see a lot of update.zip's floating around i am not puting a question mark on anyones ethics however i suppose there should be some mechanism to check what's inside the zip or what that zip will do user should be aware of the stuff that may happen... I will try to write something in this regard in case people agree.
basically i want user to know
1) what files will be tampered specially bin xbin etc folder stuff
2) shell scripts executed.
3) partition format or permission change specially something like 777 stuff should be indicated.
and ya i will keep checking all these, i don't have any plan on launching a ROM however will keep a close eye on what others are cooking.
anantshri said:
thats what i also thought and that's why posted here to make everyone atleast think once.
ro.secure setting i understand is to allow adb to run as root or not... basically ro.secure 1 disallows pushing to /system... also it puts you to $ prompt and you need to manually su.
Another thing i notices is we see a lot of update.zip's floating around i am not puting a question mark on anyones ethics however i suppose there should be some mechanism to check what's inside the zip or what that zip will do user should be aware of the stuff that may happen... I will try to write something in this regard in case people agree.
basically i want user to know
1) what files will be tampered specially bin xbin etc folder stuff
2) shell scripts executed.
3) partition format or permission change specially something like 777 stuff should be indicated.
and ya i will keep checking all these, i don't have any plan on launching a ROM however will keep a close eye on what others are cooking.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Even though I tend to agree with the above posts, I have to say that there is also another side that we should all consider.
Each and every one of us, should try and be "educated" on Android. XDA forums can be a mess, but with patience and a little time every now and then, we can all learn more about what our phones do and how.
I've seen people eager to flash an update.zip with a tweak that they have ABSOLUTELY no idea what it does. Sometimes we just sit back and wait for everything to be done for us.
I am always actively interested in development and I learn new things every day.
Developers give us the tools, we need to learn how to use them.
Xperia X10i via Tapatalk
rendeiro2005 said:
I think what needs to be done is something like linux system.
You may have root but to get some modifications at least should appear some kind of msg or password needed like super root (is this the name? Cant remember, but you know what im talking )
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is that not what the superuser app does?
I'm not a dev but I kno enough about linux to want rw to /system but I agree most users are stupid (well at least don't know what there doing). Apps that let you do damage to /system like root explorer allows you to easily mount it rw anyway. I can't see much extra danger having it always rw when you've already got root.
Each and every one of us, should try and be "educated" on Android. XDA forums can be a mess, but with patience and a little time every now and then, we can all learn more about what our phones do and how.
I've seen people eager to flash an update.zip with a tweak that they have ABSOLUTELY no idea what it does. Sometimes we just sit back and wait for everything to be done for us.
I am always actively interested in development and I learn new things every day.
Developers give us the tools, we need to learn how to use them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agree ppl flashing roms should take a little time to learn about what they're doing but ppl are too lazy and want a quick fix. But if someone soft bricks their phone because they don't understand what their doing and don't read the instructions properly then its their fault and not the devs. But its not hard to connect to PC companion and repair and they've learnt a valuable lesson in the process.
No, the superuser app don't ask for password. Like in linux distros for the pc, you can set whether to have password or not, this can be done via visudo. Just google for visudo then you will understand.
Sent from my X10 using XDA App
Yeah the post requested a message or password, superuser provides a message. Yeah I use linux for a PVR so know what you mean.
resurrecting an old thread just to inform all dev's i have compiles some of the issues that i see could be a potential security issues.
http://blog.anantshri.info/whitepaper-security-issues-in-android-custom-roms/
hope this could help making ROMs more secure.
From http://blog.anantshri.info/whitepaper-security-issues-in-android-custom-roms/#comment-66733
"
Hi Anant
After i´ve read your white paper i got 2 conclusions:
1. you`re absolutely right and explain it as it should but…
2. If Devs consider all that why develop anything?
As principle i think you´re right but that fact is if any rom will be developed as “closed” almost anyone use it and no matter what make you develop you certain won´t develop for 1/2 guys/gals. For that we have stock ones
Now. I can agree with something like a big alert on every rom development section/thread about the potential risk by install an “open” rom but more than that it will kill all development in the end
Cheers pal
"
Perhaps the way forward is to have the warnings you have mentioned, but also encourage our devs to have a "security tester", another dev with the time and skill to give approval to the zip package. Zips have worried me too. This is a community after all, security is in all our interests.
Sent from my X10i using XDA App
Hi All,
few things to clarify.
see i am not against development.
the point is when we have developer style softwares like say flashtool its just too good for people like us.
now look from a prospective of a person who is visiting this forum just to get a new rom coz he is told they are good.
he is handling his faith to us.
in this case lets say we say in flashtool for example
after rebooting, check usb debugging and unknown source.
however we never say to disable it after you are done with flashtool or tell that this could be a problem.
also most of the rom's have ro.secure set to 0. Good for dev's i loved it.
but no use for a normal user besides the prospects that due to ignorance a person could actually move in and install a backdoor or malware in.
All i am saying is we should have something like two profiles
1) if you are supporting dev launch this
2) if you are normal user use this.
hope you all get my point.
besides that issues like custom recoveries. right now as i said the efforts are towards improving them and people might look at security prospective after that.
I know some of you might say if a person is visiting a after market forum he should be smart enough to read a bit.
that's idealism, not reality.
NOTE :
I am excited about 4.0 ICS coz with that comes features like disk encryption etc.
anantshri said:
Hi All,
few things to clarify.
see i am not against development.
the point is when we have developer style softwares like say flashtool its just too good for people like us.
now look from a prospective of a person who is visiting this forum just to get a new rom coz he is told they are good.
he is handling his faith to us.
in this case lets say we say in flashtool for example
after rebooting, check usb debugging and unknown source.
however we never say to disable it after you are done with flashtool or tell that this could be a problem.
also most of the rom's have ro.secure set to 0. Good for dev's i loved it.
but no use for a normal user besides the prospects that due to ignorance a person could actually move in and install a backdoor or malware in.
All i am saying is we should have something like two profiles
1) if you are supporting dev launch this
2) if you are normal user use this.
hope you all get my point.
besides that issues like custom recoveries. right now as i said the efforts are towards improving them and people might look at security prospective after that.
I know some of you might say if a person is visiting a after market forum he should be smart enough to read a bit.
that's idealism, not reality.
NOTE :
I am excited about 4.0 ICS coz with that comes features like disk encryption etc.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi bro
i did get your point! maybe i didn´t explain my point very clearly sorry if i didn`t
i perfectly support your idea...as you say ... "that's idealism, not reality."
like i said before, may devs should include those issues on there threads, i agree, but more than that...do no know it´s like ...hey! i got a custom rom but...i can´t do nothing...
cheers R
Crowds said:
Hi bro
like i said before, may devs should include those issues on there threads, i agree, but more than that...do no know it´s like ...hey! i got a custom rom but...i can´t do nothing...
cheers R
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
actually that's my point
keeping
say ro.secure=1
disabling usbdebugging, unknown sources or portecting custom recoveries
I still see a normal user can use all the benifits of rooting inside the device.
i am right now focusing on what third party can do when phone is giving out data outside.
well we both agree that its a point that needs some consideration so i think i have succedded in making my point heard.
anantshri said:
actually that's my point
keeping
say ro.secure=1
disabling usbdebugging, unknown sources or portecting custom recoveries
I still see a normal user can use all the benifits of rooting inside the device.
i am right now focusing on what third party can do when phone is giving out data outside.
well we both agree that its a point that needs some consideration so i think i have succedded in making my point heard.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ok, ok, you won
but regarding that ro.secure
i understand your explanation on white paper and try to include on my current build.prop file but...can´t see any diference why? my phone "behaves" exactly the same way as before
Crowds said:
ok, ok, you won
but regarding that ro.secure
i understand your explanation on white paper and try to include on my current build.prop file but...can´t see any diference why? my phone "behaves" exactly the same way as before
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
change in ro.secure need to go to ramdisk.
also after that setting try pulling /data/data or /system in adb.
nothing except adb's default behaviour will change.
Hey guys,
I am really curious as to what it takes to build a custom ROM. I am very interested in building my own and want some pointers on the best places to start so I don't waste my time. Any advice will be useful, books, websites, w/e.
Thank you,
r3xx3r
get ready cause this one's going wayyy over your head.
Its one of those things where if you have to ask, you'll never know.
spitefulcheerio said:
Its one of those things where if you have to ask, you'll never know.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I really hate this mentality. People have to start somewhere. Sure they could spend years figuring everything out on their own. Or you could save them a year by pointing them in the right direction. There is such little discussion about this and it's honestly just annoying and a huge negative aspect about the development community.
EDIT: This is for HTC and I haven't watched it, but it might get you started: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94Az1kcQvc4
Also, you should definitely look through the source code for open source ROMs. I'm not a ROM developer so I can't really help you more than that, but I hope a real dev gives you an answer.
first and foremost, learn how to use ADB. if you cant use ADB without some kind of script/batch file to do it for you, then stop right here!
personally the first thing i learned was how the updater-script (at the time, we didnt have edify scripting, so it was plain-jane update-script) worked. have a look in a rom's zip file and learn the layout.
learn how to edit apks (decompile/compile) with apktool.
get comfortable with linux (this is just an opinion, as you CAN build roms in windows, but i have found it much easier on my dev laptop with ubuntu 10.10 64bit)
apkmanager is a good tool to have if you are on windows (there is a linux/osx version too, but i havent used it)
learn what zip-aligning means and what it does for your rom
learn what deodexing means and what it does for your rom
different devices benefit from different tweaks within your /system/build.prop . learn which ones work best for your rom (this requires a lot of flashing and testing on your own device)
this whole process is very time consuming and takes a ton of effort on your part. be prepared. while it is a lot of work, it is a lot of fun learning.
once you get proficient at building and tweaking roms, you can start learning how to edit smali
Pirateghost said:
first and foremost, learn how to use ADB. if you cant use ADB without some kind of script/batch file to do it for you, then stop right here!
personally the first thing i learned was how the updater-script (at the time, we didnt have edify scripting, so it was plain-jane update-script) worked. have a look in a rom's zip file and learn the layout.
learn how to edit apks (decompile/compile) with apktool.
get comfortable with linux (this is just an opinion, as you CAN build roms in windows, but i have found it much easier on my dev laptop with ubuntu 10.10 64bit)
apkmanager is a good tool to have if you are on windows (there is a linux/osx version too, but i havent used it)
learn what zip-aligning means and what it does for your rom
learn what deodexing means and what it does for your rom
different devices benefit from different tweaks within your /system/build.prop . learn which ones work best for your rom (this requires a lot of flashing and testing on your own device)
this whole process is very time consuming and takes a ton of effort on your part. be prepared. while it is a lot of work, it is a lot of fun learning.
once you get proficient at building and tweaking roms, you can start learning how to edit smali
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is good information. I, personally, build Aura completely on windows with minimal assistance from cygwin. I use batch files for the common things I use on ADB and the like but I built the scripts myself, so it isn't like I can't do it manually I just don't wanna.
It is both easier and harder than it looks. Aura is the first rom I have built.
One thing, though, is to not accept the current ways as best. Things can always be improved. I have two common mods in my rom that are done completely differently in my rom, without either database editing through scripts or modifying smali inside apk's (the hotspot entitlement check and the 1 signal bar fix). No other roms for the Atrix (I haven't check other phones...) do it this way, not even Darkside which is based somewhat no Aura.
If you are building a rom through the Rom Kitchen... don't use the garbled updater-script it puts out. It mostly works, but it is trash and you won't learn much from it.
Experimentation!
Diviance said:
This is good information. I, personally, build Aura completely on windows with minimal assistance from cygwin. I use batch files for the common things I use on ADB and the like but I built the scripts myself, so it isn't like I can't do it manually I just don't wanna.
It is both easier and harder than it looks. Aura is the first rom I have built.
One thing, though, is to not accept the current ways as best. Things can always be improved. I have two common mods in my rom that are done completely differently in my rom, without either database editing through scripts or modifying smali inside apk's (the hotspot entitlement check and the 1 signal bar fix). No other roms for the Atrix (I haven't check other phones...) do it this way, not even Darkside which is based somewhat no Aura.
If you are building a rom through the Rom Kitchen... don't use the garbled updater-script it puts out. It mostly works, but it is trash and you won't learn much from it.
Experimentation!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the input. I love hearing from other devs and the methods they prefer.
Sent from my Inspire 4G
this thread died quickly.
too bad because I want to do some studying up on it and creating some coolness myself eventually.
I know with iphones a lot of development was done right from the phone itself especially for app development, is there the same concept here?
and one other question, do you guys make any money off of these things at all? Im always looking for side work...
supermerkin said:
too bad because I want to do some studying up on it and creating some coolness myself eventually.
I know with iphones a lot of development was done right from the phone itself especially for app development, is there the same concept here?
and one other question, do you guys make any money off of these things at all? Im always looking for side work...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you can create scripts, push and pull files directly from the phone, so in a sense, yes you can work straight from the phone.
as for money...LOL...dont look to this for a secondary income by any means.
i have made all of $28 for my work on the inspire, and nothing from my work on the captivate
Pirateghost said:
you can create scripts, push and pull files directly from the phone, so in a sense, yes you can work straight from the phone.
as for money...LOL...dont look to this for a secondary income by any means.
i have made all of $28 for my work on the inspire, and nothing from my work on the captivate
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey 28 bucks is 28 bucks, granted I made 40 per screen when I used to replace iphone digitizers but money is money you never have enough.
Thanks for the info though!
Sent from my MB860 using xda premium
I spend a lot of time flashing my Rom when I am working on it. I usually don't push and pull from the phone since most users aren't doing that and I want to emulate what they will be doing.
As for money... Yeah, not a method of reliable I income if you intend to use it as such. I have probably had around... $125 donated to me by some incredibly awesome people.
If you intend to become a Rom dev, be friendly and responsive. People really appreciate someone who is willing to answer questions and give help where needed. Being standoffish like some I have seen is a sure way to get labeled with some bad words
Thank you guys for the responses. This is something I've been wondering as I've taken the plunge into modifying my Atrix. To say it's been addictive is an understatement. I started toying with the idea of putting my own ROM together pretty early on, so basic info like this is much appreciated.
Like someone said early on in the thread, everyone has to start somewhere so even seemingly small bits of info are always welcome.
The biggest hurdle is understanding adb commands and when to use them. Then, how to view the individual file strings inside the /sytem/build.prop and apks AND actually understand what it means. I have spent hours wandering around in root explorer look in folders and seeing what is inside. Pulling something with adb actually removes it from the phone right? Then I have to adb push back into the folder I pulled from. Should I use Ubuntu on my Win7 pc? I tried eclipse, installer r13, and I do have apkmanager but have yet to figure out how to actually use it.
I learn by doing what someone is telling me so reading it sometimes doesn't make sense since I can't "see" it and what it's supposed to look like. WIsh someone lived nearby to just to help get me started.....Beers and food on me LOL. Or at least had some time over the phone even.
Thanks Diviance (again) and to you PirateGhost for your help.
no adb pull does not remove it from the device. it copies to your local machine
as far as using windows vs linux. use whatever will make you more comfortable. i can assure you a lot of tutorials, and howtos are written with linux in mind, but if you can understand the basics, you will be able to translate it to windows. not to mention once you get into tearing down APKs, jars, dexes, etc....its all the same code inside no matter what tools you are using to get to them. i find linux easier to work with when it comes to stuff like this, some people think windows is easier.
If I were to get linux on my PC, would adb work within the linux evironment...meaning can I adb from linux and compile/decompile etc from there?
Phoneguy589 said:
If I were to get linux on my PC, would adb work within the linux evironment...meaning can I adb from linux and compile/decompile etc from there?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well you would compile/decompile directly on the phone unless you were using the sdcard....it wouldnt be pretty
you adb pull /system/file modify it, then adb push /system/file
it works the same in windows as it does in linux from that aspect. i just find working in linux easier.
here, this should help get you started somewhere, its not exactly like this phone, and the guide should be used as a reference and not a manual.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=915435
if you are technical enough, just by looking at that thread, you will understand a good portion of whats going on.
Thanks for all the help. Im getting bored flashing other peoples work and would like to help tweak things. And develop some stuff.
Thanks bro.
Hey, I was wondering if it was hard to create these roms?
It looks like the equivalent to using nLite or somethin to slipstream different packages in, and to remove anything else unwanted. Is it that way? But perhaps, with a command line rather than a GUI?
I am currently running UnNamed 1.0.3, but there are still a few changes I'd like to make myself, i.e. to touchwiz. Could I go and edit this too?
demon9206 said:
Hey, I was wondering if it was hard to create these roms?
It looks like the equivalent to using nLite or somethin to slipstream different packages in, and to remove anything else unwanted. Is it that way? But perhaps, with a command line rather than a GUI?
I am currently running UnNamed 1.0.3, but there are still a few changes I'd like to make myself, i.e. to touchwiz. Could I go and edit this too?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Depends on the customizations - removing stuff can be quite easy - just remount /system read/write and go to town on /system/app
https://spreadsheets.google.com/spr...1gdDJRekl4QmkyNmIzUmRvX2h3UDVkQXc&output=html has a list of safe/unsafe removals for I9100 - we're pretty close to it.
Adding stuff can often be quite difficult - In general, many of the frameworks are interconnected, so for example, you might add something that depends on our framework having a component that isn't there, and it'll go break. Or that component might be there, but have a different resource ID. Things get really difficult really fast once you start getting into smali/baksmali land...
At some point I'm going to start documenting the steps I've taken to where I am with my own personal device right now in terms of debloating and modifications - but I haven't had the time to document it yet. Whenever it does come, I will warn you - my guide will be useless to someone that doesn't have a fairly high degree of familiarity with a Unix shell. I intend it to be a high-level guide for people who have reasonably good general technical skills but lack familiarity with the Android userspace stack.
Entropy512 said:
Depends on the customizations - removing stuff can be quite easy - just remount /system read/write and go to town on /system/app
https://spreadsheets.google.com/spr...1gdDJRekl4QmkyNmIzUmRvX2h3UDVkQXc&output=html has a list of safe/unsafe removals for I9100 - we're pretty close to it.
Adding stuff can often be quite difficult - In general, many of the frameworks are interconnected, so for example, you might add something that depends on our framework having a component that isn't there, and it'll go break. Or that component might be there, but have a different resource ID. Things get really difficult really fast once you start getting into smali/baksmali land...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ahhh... Somalia/baksmali land. Oh how I hated that place when I began to learn.
Entropy512 said:
I will warn you - my guide will be useless to someone that doesn't have a fairly high degree of familiarity with a Unix shell. I intend it to be a high-level guide for people who have reasonably good general technical skills but lack familiarity with the Android userspace stack.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'll really be looking forward to this guide then as the Unix shell is where I'm comfortable, but I'm not too familiar with the Android userspace stack. I suppose I've my own self to blame for not making the time to get familiar with it, but as busy as I stay with work, being on-call and all the ad-hoc that comes in between, time for Android can be scarce. A guide would save me a lot of time for sure and be very much appreciated.
Ah, gotcha. Seems pretty intense then, not quite like Slipstreaming Windows as I imagined. Too bad.
So this is not something to pick up quickly and just do it then, huh? Too bad. Guess I'll have to rely on you guys! Thanks to all that go through this lol
demon9206 said:
Ah, gotcha. Seems pretty intense then, not quite like Slipstreaming Windows as I imagined. Too bad.
So this is not something to pick up quickly and just do it then, huh? Too bad. Guess I'll have to rely on you guys! Thanks to all that go through this lol
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Some things are easy, some things are harder.
Debloating is easy - just nuke stuff from /system/app one at a time, using this as a guide: https://spreadsheets.google.com/spr...1gdDJRekl4QmkyNmIzUmRvX2h3UDVkQXc&output=html
Keep a backup around in case you nuke something you shouldn't.
Deodexing - harder, I needed to use dsixda kitchen with a few caveats (such as CWM 5.x backups will NOT work as input to a dsixda dump - you need to use dd to dump your /system partition). According to gtg465x, deodexing with dsixda is OK, doing any more with it will incur the wrath of the ROM gods.
One thing to clearly start looking at - smali/baksmali. Smali/baksmali is a ***** on odexed ROMs, if a ROM you're using is odexed, deodex it or run away unless you like pain and suffering.
gtg's github repo for unnamed ROM serves as great smali/baksmali reference for many runs - but if you try to copypasta his changes, Bad Things will usually happen.
This is from the Sony Xperia X10 section, which is the phone I came from. Not sure if this Script/Application can be adapted for the Galaxy, but this allows a user to Port a MiUI ROM in "30 seconds" I only played with it a little bit.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1294451
btw, Entropy512 one of my good friends I went to college with is from Oswego!
highaltitude said:
This is from the Sony Xperia X10 section, which is the phone I came from. Not sure if this Script/Application can be adapted for the Galaxy, but this allows a user to Port a MiUI ROM in "30 seconds" I only played with it a little bit.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1294451
btw, Entropy512 one of my good friends I went to college with is from Oswego!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm in Owego, not Oswego... One S makes a few hundred miles difference. (Northern vs. southern border of the state.)
Entropy512 said:
I'm in Owego, not Oswego... One S makes a few hundred miles difference. (Northern vs. southern border of the state.)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LOL, oops
Sorry first off I'm not sure if this is the right forum. Was thinking developers but there was an ominous warning at the top of that one so I decided not to take the chance.
The question is can Linux be installed on an Android based device natively? I'm aware of chroot enviroments and have done those. I also found this http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=981688 which is slightly cooler but it's still an AUFS based chroot mount. I found the same question asked here http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1272964 but there was no answer and I didn't want to zombie the thread. Google searches didn't turn up anything useful either.
While I'm thinking the question is fairly device agnostic my device is a Droid 2 Global. I'm getting ready to replace it soon but I'm thinking it might make a nice little embedded system. From what I've read about my device in particular it's got some type of "lock" that disallows the use of other kernels but I am not afraid of recompiling the kernel for my device with additional needed modules for file systems or whatever. I have done this in the past.
I'm not super picky on the distro, but given a choice I guess I'd go with Debian (hardly ever changes so I can just check for security updates once a week or so and otherwise forget about it).
I wouldn't expect anyone to be able to answer this directly as I'm sure it'd be a novel. I'm more hoping someone might have a link to a guide or something that I just completely failed to locate.
So I kept digging and I found this: http www dot htc-linux.org forwardslash wiki forwardslash index.php. As the link suggests it's focused towards HTC devices but between it and some other links on there I think I can work with it.
I'll mark the thread as [SOLVED], but since it ended up being fairly useless (sorry) go ahead and delete if it amuses you to do so, any passing admin.
Ubuntu is coming out with an official version for Android soon.
Sent from my ADR6425LVW
I Am Marino said:
Ubuntu is coming out with an official version for Android soon.
Sent from my ADR6425LVW
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is probably your best answer. The Ubuntu build that runs on top of Android for webtop/lapdock purposes is running from the same kernel as Android is according to what I've heard. They will be providing the source so we'll see what the community can do with it.
It is possible on some Android devices, such as the Transformer and Desire.
But the Droid 2 Global, having a locked bootloader and the inability to install custom kernels, is not able to use native Linux.
If you want an Android device that is able to use native Linux do some research to find the one that fits you best.
Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
have you seen this? interestiong reading...
http://whiteboard.ping.se/Android/Debian
Itbelikedat said:
have you seen this? interestiong reading...
http://whiteboard.ping.se/Android/Debian
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I tried it a small time ago. Everything works but zygote and its forks fail to start, perhaps due to mount namespaces implementation on Android, but I'm not sure. Seeking a way out for this but not successful so far due to lack of knowledge.
My Atrix got it's case cracked and the touch-screen display died, and given I already got a replacement phone I feel a bit adventurous. I wanted to see if I could build my own computer with what remains, so I wanted to run Linux natively (no Android). Given that there's a Linux 4 Tegra from Nvidia:
Is there a chance that I could build my own distro based on that?
Should I use another kernel (like the one currently used in gingerbread or CM7)?
Please note that I'm not trying to do webtop.
I thought of building my own handheld with the Atrix, or what remains of it. So any tips on how to get started would be great.
Cheers!
wrong section
ovitz said:
wrong section
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Umm... what section would you suggest other than Q&A?
It was moved. Sorry 'bout that. I was under the impression that development questions were on the other forum...
"Android development" is in the description. I think they keep that forum just for Android-specific things, even though Android is just a flavor of linux.
tonglebeak said:
"Android development" is in the description. I think they keep that forum just for Android-specific things, even though Android is just a flavor of linux.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're being way too literal. It's been used for all sorts of non-Android dev multiple times. Right now, Boot2Gecko is right there. The fact of the matter is that when it pertains to dev questions, this post would most likely be answered there. I'm pretty sure it'll die here on this forum with barely any useful answer, if at all.
The development section is mostly for things that are "in progress", ie. with "something to show". Questions, discussions and ideas go elsewhere.
As for your question, I believe I've seen a thread about this already, and quite recently too.
ravilov said:
The development section is mostly for things that are "in progress", ie. with "something to show". Questions, discussions and ideas go elsewhere.
As for your question, I believe I've seen a thread about this already, and quite recently too.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've checked a few that I've found on the forum, but most had no answer and were about other devices. With regards to the Atrix or the Tegra, I've only found threads about webtop.
Not to argue too much about this too much, but I've seen threads that started with nothing in the dev section. Like the Kernel porting project that started as a mere placeholder for the project. Point is, I've done my research and found no pointers to the questions I have. I made it in case another dev had an idea about it. I may have missed something, but that's why I asked in the first place. If I believed I had covered all grounds by myself, I wouldn't have asked in the first place.
Lugaidster said:
I've checked a few that I've found on the forum, but most had no answer and were about other devices. With regards to the Atrix or the Tegra, I've only found threads about webtop.
Not to argue too much about this too much, but I've seen threads that started with nothing in the dev section. Like the Kernel porting project that started as a mere placeholder for the project. Point is, I've done my research and found no pointers to the questions I have. I made it in case another dev had an idea about it. I may have missed something, but that's why I asked in the first place. If I believed I had covered all grounds by myself, I wouldn't have asked in the first place.
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What you're looking to do seems similar to this question: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2110161
The difference between the webtop and a stand alone installation of Linux won't be that different, mainly it would just be where on the device the OS is installed and how video is handled. That said, I'm not sure about the kernel, specifically the video drivers, since they're intended for Android and may not be compatible with X. AFAIK, Wayland is closer to Android than X is, but Wayland isn't quite ready.
Anyway, assuming you did succeed, what you would end up with would be less like a true desktop (as you'd be pretty much locked into a specific kernel, and therefor any packages limited by it, but it doesn't invalidate the effort), and more like a persistent live CD, since the OS would be installed to an area mounted as read-only (to prevent flash wear), with access to an area that has read/write access, like in Android where you store apps and user files. Overall, it could be fun if you enjoy a challenge and aren't intimidated by soldering and using the JTAG connector.
lehjr said:
What you're looking to do seems similar to this question: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2110161
The difference between the webtop and a stand alone installation of Linux won't be that different, mainly it would just be where on the device the OS is installed and how video is handled. That said, I'm not sure about the kernel, specifically the video drivers, since they're intended for Android and may not be compatible with X. AFAIK, Wayland is closer to Android than X is, but Wayland isn't quite ready.
Anyway, assuming you did succeed, what you would end up with would be less like a true desktop (as you'd be pretty much locked into a specific kernel, and therefor any packages limited by it, but it doesn't invalidate the effort), and more like a persistent live CD, since the OS would be installed to an area mounted as read-only (to prevent flash wear), with access to an area that has read/write access, like in Android where you store apps and user files. Overall, it could be fun if you enjoy a challenge and aren't intimidated by soldering and using the JTAG connector.
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Actually, I might have to do soldering anyway. I'm not really intimidated by it and don't really care all that much for phone functionality and such. I'm not even interested all that much in X as my project is more towards transforming it into a handheld gaming (more like emu) device. I don't mind compiling software specifically for the system. The question is pretty low-level in that regard for me. I want to know if I have to do anything with regards to the kernel since it's specific to Android. Given that most emus I know that would run acceptably in a tegra 2 don't really need the GPU, I don't mind just using framebuffer so HW doesn't really interest me.
Lugaidster said:
Actually, I might have to do soldering anyway. I'm not really intimidated by it and don't really care all that much for phone functionality and such. I'm not even interested all that much in X as my project is more towards transforming it into a handheld gaming (more like emu) device. I don't mind compiling software specifically for the system. The question is pretty low-level in that regard for me. I want to know if I have to do anything with regards to the kernel since it's specific to Android. Given that most emus I know that would run acceptably in a tegra 2 don't really need the GPU, I don't mind just using framebuffer so HW doesn't really interest me.
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Unfortunately, it's going to be one of those areas where you'll have to make an educated guess, since as far as we know, no one has successfully pulled off a straight Linux implementation on the device.
That said, nVidia does have both Android and Linux images for the Ventana dev kit, so it should be possible. In my case, I would compare the source code for their Linux kernel vs the stock Linux kernel vs their closest Android kernel vs the stock Android kernel. The biggest thing is how the the device specific files translate from one kernel to another, because you'll likely need to translate the device specific files for the Atrix in the same manner. The changes may be subtle or they may be drastic. The main thing is to just be able to set the pins properly so you don't release any "magic smoke". Unfortunately, I see no source code for any of nVidia's kernels.
Anyway, that's how I would do it, but I do suspect that someone with more knowledge could find a much simpler approach and hopefully they'll chime in, but this part of the forums isn't the thriving hub of activity it used to be, so I don't know if that will happen any time soon or at all.
lehjr said:
nVidia does have both Android and Linux images for the Ventana dev kit
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Atrix is a Whistler, not a Ventana.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=33289027#post33289027
ravilov said:
Atrix is a Whistler, not a Ventana.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=33289027#post33289027
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Thanks for the heads up and the link! :highfive: