Related
Greetings all,
This is my first post here. I hope to make it a memorable one.
Really; I've been programming on the UNIX system for more than 20 years.
Having picked up and activated a brand new HTC-EVO android-2.2 (froyo) 4
days ago. I discover "big brother's watching" (google). This is completely unacceptable. Looking for the definitive answer brings me to XDA. So, I spent the past 2 days reading threads here. But can't shake the notion that all of this "rooting" seems overly complicated. I mean if android runs atop Linux, WTF is all this MS-DOS BS? Granted, I'm new to the EVO, but in UNIX, it seems that a simple:
Code:
# su
password
# mkdir /evoandroid
# mount /dev/android-device /evoandroid
dd if=<your-ROM-name-here> of=/evoandroid
would suffice.
This above is only slightly different for Linux - but I think you get the picture.
Sure. I know the SDK && NDK are written for MS-DOS & Co.
But what's that got to do with writing a "rooted" ROM to the EVO?
Because Windows users use the EVO too?
Sorry, but what am I missing here? Would love to start writing a self-made ROM to my new EVO. In fact I've already nearly finished a compilation that features an almost indistinguishable OS X. But hate to move any farther forward w/o clearing this "nit" I have with writing to the EVO.
Thank you for all your time and consideration.
--Chris
I don't understand your question. Can you clarify, and I'm sure someone will be glad to help if possible.
You can download Windows, Mac, and Linux versions of the SDK & NDK, so I'm not sure why you think they are Windows specific. (Many, if not most, ROM devs use Ubuntu since compiling AOSP & kernel source works well on it.)
If there is some part of the rooting process for the EVO that requires Windows, then that might be better directed to the EVO specific forums. I have helped to root one EVO myself, and it was done from a Mac. Things may have changed though.
Hello gnarlyc, and thank you for your reply.
gnarlyc said:
I don't understand your question. Can you clarify, and I'm sure someone will be glad to help if possible.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OK fair enough. I'll try to be more concise.
Currently, it is my understanding, that to "get root" on the EVO. One must download the SDK && NDK. Then use the tools provided there-in to "get root".
Yes, I am aware that you also need some of the wonderful utilities provided by the "dev's" here at XDA.
But I wonder why it wouldn't be simpler to mount(8) ( http ://internethell.net/man/?query=mount ) the EVO (rom & sdcard), and simply write the custom ROM "raw" right to the EVO's live rom.
eg; on a *NIX boxen
Code:
# su
password
# mkdir /evoandroid
# mount /dev/evo-device /evoandroid
# dd if=./custom-rom.img of=/evoandroid
see: http ://internethell.net/man/?query=dd
Done. That was easy, wasn't it.
gnarlyc said:
You can download Windows, Mac, and Linux versions of the SDK & NDK, so I'm not sure why you think they are Windows specific. (Many, if not most, ROM devs use Ubuntu since compiling AOSP & kernel source works well on it.)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was aware of the source being *NIX. But when I went to HTC, they presented me with only the Windows version. Perhaps, they felt I was on Windows, based on some browser "sniffing" thing. Dunno. I don't have Windows on anything. But occasionally on one of my BSD servers, I'll mount it in a Virtualbox VM.
Thanks for your info here. I'll go back and get the Mac version. I don't suppose it supports Apple Macs?
gnarlyc said:
If there is some part of the rooting process for the EVO that requires Windows,
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
See above.
gnarlyc said:
then that might be better directed to the EVO specific forums.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Couldn't find the HTC-EVO phone as a separate forum - like the other EVO's.
gnarlyc said:
I have helped to root one EVO myself, and it was done from a Mac. Things may have changed though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't feel I'd have any trouble "rooting" it. I just felt that all of the "tut's" I've found here were un-necessarily complicated - overly complex. So I'm wondering why my example above wouldn't work.
Thank you again gnarlyc, for your thoughtful response.
--Chris
CTH-EVO said:
Hello gnarlyc, and thank you for your reply.
OK fair enough. I'll try to be more concise.
Currently, it is my understanding, that to "get root" on the EVO. One must download the SDK && NDK. Then use the tools provided there-in to "get root".
Yes, I am aware that you also need some of the wonderful utilities provided by the "dev's" here at XDA.
But I wonder why it wouldn't be simpler to mount(8) ( http ://internethell.net/man/?query=mount ) the EVO (rom & sdcard), and simply write the custom ROM "raw" right to the EVO's live rom.
eg; on a *NIX boxen
Code:
# su
password
# mkdir /evoandroid
# mount /dev/evo-device /evoandroid
# dd if=./custom-rom.img of=/evoandroid
see: http ://internethell.net/man/?query=dd
Done. That was easy, wasn't it.
I was aware of the source being *NIX. But when I went to HTC, they presented me with only the Windows version. Perhaps, they felt I was on Windows, based on some browser "sniffing" thing. Dunno. I don't have Windows on anything. But occasionally on one of my BSD servers, I'll mount it in a Virtualbox VM.
Thanks for your info here. I'll go back and get the Mac version. I don't suppose it supports Apple Macs?
See above.
Couldn't find the HTC-EVO phone as a separate forum - like the other EVO's.
I don't feel I'd have any trouble "rooting" it. I just felt that all of the "tut's" I've found here were un-necessarily complicated - overly complex. So I'm wondering why my example above wouldn't work.
Thank you again gnarlyc, for your thoughtful response.
--Chris
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok, I think I get you now. I don't think this will work though. The running image is on an internal partition. Maybe you can mount that? I don't think so though. It doesn't seem to me that mounting the sdcard will get you anywhere. So many 'impossible' things have already been done with Android, so I wouldn't count you out completely.
http://android-dls.com/wiki/index.php?title=HOWTO:_Unpack,_Edit,_and_Re-Pack_Boot_Images
Kernel source for HTC phones - http://developer.htc.com/
Android Open Source Project source - http://source.android.com/source/download.html
Android SDK - http://developer.android.com/sdk/index.html
Android NDK - http://developer.android.com/sdk/ndk/index.html
I recommend this script for grabbing AOSP source on Debian/Ubuntu - http://blog.coralic.nl/2010/01/28/build-eclair-aka-android-2-1-for-hero-from-source/
You can change 'eclair' to 'froyo' for Android 2.2 source. It's good to look at this even if you don't use a Debian based distro, although it's mostly the same stuff that's on Google's site.
EVO forum - http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=653
I don't think there's more than one EVO, but maybe I'm wrong. The internal name is 'Supersonic', btw. You might see that in places.
Won't this root method work? - http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=787304
Some other light reading -
http://android-dls.com/wiki/index.php?title=HOWTO:_Unpack,_Edit,_and_Re-Pack_Boot_Images
http://forum.androidcentral.com/hacking/6037-general-rom-faq.html
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=633246
http://blog.coralic.nl/2010/01/28/build-eclair-aka-android-2-1-for-hero-from-source/
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=622916
http://forum.androidcentral.com/htc...how-build-your-own-kernel-package-source.html
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=6738713&postcount=1
http://www.kandroid.org/android_pdk/index.html
http://android-dls.com/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page
https://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AcdxIJRSH9ypZGZzc2pxNDlfMjdnazk4OHNxZA&hl=en
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=641223
http://adrianvintu.com/blogengine/post/Colored-Logcat-Script-for-Windows.aspx
http://www.androidenea.com/2009/08/init-process-and-initrc.html
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=623976
http://lukasz.szmit.eu/2009/12/making-your-own-rooted-android-rom.html
http://androidguts.com/index.php/Main_Page
http://groups.google.com/group/android-kernel
http://groups.google.com/group/android-building
http://groups.google.com/group/android-porting
http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers
http://groups.google.com/group/android-ndk
http://groups.google.com/group/android-platform
Greetings gnarlyc.
Let me first preface this by saying how grateful I am for all the time and effort you put into your last reply - WOW.
I don't want to sound argumentative. But just for the record, when I plug my EVO into one of my BSD servers, it immediately sees both the running system, and the sdcard. While I haven't yet attempted to mount the live system. I will endeavor to do so when I can determine what state I need to have the phone in to safely mount it. I'll report back to you with my results.
I have a strong suspicion I'll be posting a "one step to root and ROM" here within a week. That should help a lot of folks out.
I primarily develop in, and on the BSD family of operating systems. But given the Linux ABI support on BSD, I've made my development workstation dual-boot BSD/Fedora 13. But given the workstation is an AMD X4 six-core 4Ghz
board. I've decided to cobble up a copy of OS X (Apple CPU) to install on it as well - see; triple-boot. I'm just about to install it in the next couple of days. But thought I'd take a break on that development, and play with my new toy.
I should also have a copy of OS X for the EVO before long. Think anyone would be interested?
Well, I may not be new to development, but this EVO is new territory for me. So I'd do well to take advantage of the wealth of information you've thoughtfully provided me.
Best wishes to you gnarlyc, and thanks again.
--Chris
CTH-EVO said:
Greetings gnarlyc.
Let me first preface this by saying how grateful I am for all the time and effort you put into your last reply - WOW.
I don't want to sound argumentative. But just for the record, when I plug my EVO into one of my BSD servers, it immediately sees both the running system, and the sdcard. While I haven't yet attempted to mount the live system. I will endeavor to do so when I can determine what state I need to have the phone in to safely mount it. I'll report back to you with my results.
I have a strong suspicion I'll be posting a "one step to root and ROM" here within a week. That should help a lot of folks out.
I primarily develop in, and on the BSD family of operating systems. But given the Linux ABI support on BSD, I've made my development workstation dual-boot BSD/Fedora 13. But given the workstation is an AMD X4 six-core 4Ghz
board. I've decided to cobble up a copy of OS X (Apple CPU) to install on it as well - see; triple-boot. I'm just about to install it in the next couple of days. But thought I'd take a break on that development, and play with my new toy.
I should also have a copy of OS X for the EVO before long. Think anyone would be interested?
Well, I may not be new to development, but this EVO is new territory for me. So I'd do well to take advantage of the wealth of information you've thoughtfully provided me.
Best wishes to you gnarlyc, and thanks again.
--Chris
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No problem. I'm wrong at least once per day, but that's ok as long as I realize it and learn from it. I hope you are able to work it out.
I've seen 'rooting' of the Eris go from installing a leaked ROM to doing some crazy timing with pulling out the sdcard (or something like that) to a 1-click app that's on the market. Some really determined, knowledgeable, and intelligent people have put a lot of time into making these things easier and better. Welcome to the community!
A copy of OS X for the EVO? Do you mean running on the EVO? If so, then I'm sure people would be interested from a purely geeky perspective. There are several phones out there with the option to install Ubuntu and/or Debian on them. They don't seem to be of practical use yet. Can you cross-compile Darwin for arm CPUs? Maybe I'm confused here... My knowledge of such things only runs so deep.
(Side note - I keep those links in a text file just for such occasions. I don't see why everyone should have to spend their time searching for the sites that I already know about.)
gnarlyc said:
No problem. I'm wrong at least once per day, but that's ok as long as I realize it and learn from it. I hope you are able to work it out.
I've seen 'rooting' of the Eris go from installing a leaked ROM to doing some crazy timing with pulling out the sdcard (or something like that) to a 1-click app that's on the market. Some really determined, knowledgeable, and intelligent people have put a lot of time into making these things easier and better. Welcome to the community!
A copy of OS X for the EVO? Do you mean running on the EVO? If so, then I'm sure people would be interested from a purely geeky perspective.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, and no. The "apps" and android are made with Java - something Oracle is currently sueing Google for as I speak (Google clams "clean-room" in-house Java, Oracle claims otherwise). So for all practical purposes, there is no reason that those same "apps" found on the phones, and in the "market" can't be made to run on OS X. In fact, it opens the doors to additional "apps" that otherwise wouldn't be possible - iTunes, for example.
gnarlyc said:
There are several phones out there with the option to install Ubuntu and/or Debian on them. They don't seem to be of practical use yet. Can you cross-compile Darwin for arm CPUs?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Glad you asked. BSD (which is what "hosts" NeXT/Darwin) has no problems with ARM, and I'm confident that I can manipulate Darwin to work on Snapdragon.
gnarlyc said:
Maybe I'm confused here... My knowledge of such things only runs so deep.
(Side note - I keep those links in a text file just for such occasions. I don't see why everyone should have to spend their time searching for the sites that I already know about.)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm really glad you do - it really helped me a lot not having to weed all these "jewls" out. Thank you very much for sharing them with me, I appreciate it!
Best wishes to you gnarlyc, and have a wonderful day.
--Chris
Are they doing something similar to what you are talking about?
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=788554
gnarlyc said:
Are they doing something similar to what you are talking about?
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=788554
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the link gnarlyc.
I thought about something similar to this when I first thought about "rooting" the phone; making a system folder on the sdcard, then "soft linking" it to /system.
Problem being, the performance hit using the sdcard for system related tasks made this option undesirable.
Thanks again for sharing the link, gnarlyc.
OH, one thing though, my phone is not linked to google. I have no google account(s). I activated this phone in "developer mode". Meaning that there is no personal info to worry about "attached" to this phone. Making it an ideal candidate for creating a bone-stock ROM for recovery/hacking purposes. I don't suppose you can direct me to "cloning" this phone. So that I might share this w/others as a ROM suitable for un-bricking their phone, could you?
HTC-EVO (supersonic) s/w# 3.26.651.6, baseband# 2.15.00.07.28, PRI version 1.71_003, andriod 2.2
Thanks again.
--Chris
Can I ask, what do you mean by "big brother (Google) is watching"?
CTH-EVO said:
Thanks for the link gnarlyc.
I thought about something similar to this when I first thought about "rooting" the phone; making a system folder on the sdcard, then "soft linking" it to /system.
Problem being, the performance hit using the sdcard for system related tasks made this option undesirable.
Thanks again for sharing the link, gnarlyc.
OH, one thing though, my phone is not linked to google. I have no google account(s). I activated this phone in "developer mode". Meaning that there is no personal info to worry about "attached" to this phone. Making it an ideal candidate for creating a bone-stock ROM for recovery/hacking purposes. I don't suppose you can direct me to "cloning" this phone. So that I might share this w/others as a ROM suitable for un-bricking their phone, could you?
HTC-EVO (supersonic) s/w# 3.26.651.6, baseband# 2.15.00.07.28, PRI version 1.71_003, andriod 2.2
Thanks again.
--Chris
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you have a custom recovery partition like Amon_Ra's, you can do a NAND backup to the sdcard. It's basically a snapshot of the currently flashed ROM. That should work just fine. NAND's can be manipulated in dsixda's kitchen (although I haven't tried it, the option is there and dsixda has things together pretty well) and I THINK you should be able to copy one from one EVO to another and do a restore.
A side note... Generally when people create the ROMs that are out there, they do not include the directories under /data that might have personal info, so you can actually create a bone-stock ROM like you want without using a phone in such a state as yours. I've flashed a lot of different ROMs, and I'm pretty sure that none of them had identifying information about the dev unless they purposely did something like put their name in the build.prop or the wallpaper. Generally, if they include a /data, it's just for /data/app, although there are exceptions like when they want to change a database or something else that might be under /data.
As far as I know, your phone won't be linked to Google until you sign in with the Google account. I've gone several days on a fresh ROM without setting that up. Eventually, I find I want to install something from the Market, so I go ahead and sign in...
MaybachMan said:
Can I ask, what do you mean by "big brother (Google) is watching"?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Greetings MaybachMan.
Yes. Of course you may.
What I mean by that, is that is that Google monitors your activity. To what extent,
all depends on what applications you use, and to what extent you have a relation
with Google - Gmail, Google search, or any other Google application/account you
have with Google. Myself, on the other hand, I activated my EVO in "developer" mode.
I have no Gmail account, or any other relationship/account with Google.
Google needs your data. Google is a "data miner" that's what Google does.
I don't have a problem with their chosen line of business. I simply choose not to be
part of the data they "mine" - to the extent I am able.
Meaning in the context of my OP; I want to remove most (if not all) of the Google apps
on my EVO - including the Market app.
I hope I have cleared things up for you, MaybachMan.
Thanks for your reply.
--Chris
gnarlyc said:
If you have a custom recovery partition like Amon_Ra's, you can do a NAND backup to the sdcard. It's basically a snapshot of the currently flashed ROM. That should work just fine. NAND's can be manipulated in dsixda's kitchen (although I haven't tried it, the option is there and dsixda has things together pretty well) and I THINK you should be able to copy one from one EVO to another and do a restore.
A side note... Generally when people create the ROMs that are out there, they do not include the directories under /data that might have personal info, so you can actually create a bone-stock ROM like you want without using a phone in such a state as yours. I've flashed a lot of different ROMs, and I'm pretty sure that none of them had identifying information about the dev unless they purposely did something like put their name in the build.prop or the wallpaper. Generally, if they include a /data, it's just for /data/app, although there are exceptions like when they want to change a database or something else that might be under /data.
As far as I know, your phone won't be linked to Google until you sign in with the Google account. I've gone several days on a fresh ROM without setting that up. Eventually, I find I want to install something from the Market, so I go ahead and sign in...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you gnarlyc! You're a "pillar of wisdom" where these phones are concerned.
I really appreciate your sharing it with me.
Best wishes, and thanks again gnarlyc.
--Chris
CTH-EVO said:
Thank you gnarlyc! You're a "pillar of wisdom" where these phones are concerned.
I really appreciate your sharing it with me.
Best wishes, and thanks again gnarlyc.
--Chris
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, thank you. At least one of the voices tells me that's why I'm here. I'm still learning, and I find it easier to pass on what I learn if I learned it recently. Since I just got this phone in March, nearly everything I know about it is pretty fresh!
In addition the "big brother" post. The book 1984 I believe is where it comes from. The author is George Orwell and usually this book refers to things in society today as an Orwellian society. It's a really great book anyone who has spare time should really check it out if they like conspiracies, apocalyptic scenarios etc.
@CTH-EVO - I understand having a little linux background myself why you feel the way you do that you could just dd a raw image to the phone but there are a few issues with that, that I would like to clarify with you.
It's not entirely impossible. We have seen that around here many times.
However....
1. To clarify, Android is NOT general linux in the form you think of it. It's definitely HAS a beautiful open source twin sister (AOSP) but HTC's version of sense is locked down, restricted, and tight. But there are other reasons why..
2. The boot process... By default you can't mount the system directory to be writable, only readable which wouldn't make a hill a beans difference if you try to use dd. It would just produce error:unwritable.
To iterate further into this subject though, there is also the boot process and the partitions that go with that. Let me go ahead and get the boot process out of the way first:
**Generic Boot Process**
1.SelfCheck
2.Radio
3.S-on/S-off (developer mode only)
4.Recovery (if installed)
5.Rom
By default when the system boots it is directed specifically from the radio (unless s-on is installed) to the system partition, which by default the system partition locks any root needed functions out (including writablility from external sources).
One other thing of note, the phone more than welcomes ANY linux o.s. to see the internal phone storage, just that you can't write to it unless you have root.
However I also would like to inform you that there are universal root programs getting easier and easier these days to use so you don't have to download all this and that, and most phones now you don't even have to have a computer to root it.
Here's what is involved in the rooting process:
1. Exploit code to inject code for root access (done from shell of phone)
2. root files (permissions program, etc)
3. recovery flash. (flashed to it's own 'sub' partition)
Actually come to think of it you used to have to boot into recovery to root (well.. not really a recovery but the stock wiping/reset program) And you could possibly get dd to flash the system from there, but the real issue here is just not bricking the device.
The device itself is of course just one memory bank partitioned into different places. If you use dd to flash a raw image to the rom, it would wipe out EVERYTHING would it not? And not JUST the regular rom partitions? This would be sweet if you can set up an entire phone's system including bootstrap, radio, and recovery (effectively unbricking probably 3/4 the bricked phones out there right now) but if it's unsuccessful, or unfinished then would it not brick it entirely?
Hope this helps you out!
>>>> 22Jan2012: linboothkvc v1.0 source released in my linboothkvc thread. It works successfully on Omap3 and Omap4 based devices including NookTab. And with minimal changes/love can work with any rooted arm based linux device <<<<
>>>> 17Jan2012: Kernel module SUCCEEDS on NookTab to reboot into NIRVANA - NO NEED to BREAK the default SECURE BOOT CHAIN and NOTE THAT EVEN THIS CAN WORK ON ANY ROOTED DEVICE and not just NT, with minimal love so ENJOY <<<<
>>>> 16Jan2012: My kernel module based path (linboothkvc) to running custom kernels and roms is almost done, except for a __small part__ to get it running on NT now - IF ONLY PEOPLE HAD WAITED ...., we could have reaped the potential benefit in future, Why not !!!! why not ....WHY NOT !?!?. NOTE that it can allow one to run custom kernel/roms WITH OUT MODIFYING ANY CRITICAL PARTITIONS provided one sets it up properly/appropriately. Source for beta version available in my linboothkvc thread, for the interested developers/experimenters for now ... <<<<
>>>> I may not respond to the posts on this thread currently, because I am trying to get a alternate option called linboothkvc using kernel modules up and running (which will occupy my free time), which AVOIDS the NEED for this flaw in the first place for most of the people out there (i.e Custom ROMS with different kernels). However over the weekends, I will go thro all the posts on this thread <<<<
>>>> 14Jan2012: Initial pre-alpha version of kernel module path based source code uploaded to my linboothkvc thread for those still interested to experiment
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1427610
<<<<
Hi All,
If you have been following my posts over the last few days
NOTE: To people frustrated with UART requirement - I understand the restrictions of UART access, but a lot of ROMS can be done with 2ndihkvc or equivalent methods and with out needing a Custom kernel. If someone is talking about Custom/New kernel for Android 4.0 (ICS). Then do note my statement (in NOP BYPASS thread) on POWER of KERNEL MODULES in Linux, IT CAN BE USED TO ACHIEVE what you want to achieve, only that it requires bit more effort, which I or some one else has not put currently... thats all. AND THAT By holding off now, we can _potentially_(Risk is always there) reap the benifit with next years NEXT GEN Nook Tab+ or what ever they call it.
a) I have implemented 2ndihkvc, which follows the same fundamental concept as 2nd-init, but achieves it in a simpler way (Needed because some of the calls used in original 2nd-init doesn't work on NookTab, or have unnecessary dependencies (in this given context, otherwise they are good in them selves) which can be avoided with my simpler method)
b) I have provided the NOP Bypass method of running a modified Ramdisk and also 90% a modified kernel, provided UART access is there.
c) There is still the power of linux KERNEL MODULES to EXPLOIT. (Haven't had time on that yet).
If you ask me, this should cover all category of people. Be it people who want to run custom Roms, or people who want to experiment with Kernel and or other low level stuff for the fun of it.
There is a 4th method which will allow one to achieve (b) above with out requiring UART access or even uSD (potentially . If one reads between the lines from all my posts till date, the answer is hidden in there. Only that I haven't spelt it out directly or in the face. The reason is because It is a fundament flaw (rather there are potentially two at two different levels - one relatively simple and one relatively bit more involved - One I know for sure, another I have to dig bit more) in the way things are done currently in the secure boot chain on this device as well as potentially other devices with same or similar SOC (and or different SOC but with similar boot chain s/w components.
SHOULD WE BE WASTING i.e providing a solution which uses it, when there is already 2ndihkvc and NOP Bypass over UART and also the Linux KERNLE MODULE ROUTE to cater to most peoples needs.
Because if we do, then even the Device manufacturers and their partners will come to know about it and can easily fix it in their Newer/NextGen devices. While if we withhold it for now, we may be able to get access to it on their Next generation Devices with hopefully Arm A15 core or .... (NOTE: Depending on the boot sequence ROOT access may or may not be required for this).
The reason I am asking now is because, few people are asking my help on certain things and the reality is I know that the concept for which they want my inputs/guidance, can be applied at a more fundamental level here (or even at the same level), but that I have not ventured into it because of my delimma above.
NOTE: People who wanted my inputs/guidance wrt uSD, you all know who you are, I know the flaw to achieve what you want to achieve, but it is more powerful than what you all are currently thinking of doing/ ristricting yourselves to (You all have one input/... in there wrt devices . Unless let me think thro further and see if something can be done differently, with out exposing the flaw I have in mind to help you achieve what you want, otherwise i.e if there is nothing else I can come up with, and in turn if you people experiment further and are able to come up with the solution on your own, I would suggest that hold off on it for few days, think thro all the implications keeping what I have mentioned in this thread, and then take a call one way or the other.
Please provide your thoughts on this after thinking thro the options already available on NookTab (root access, kernel modules, UART UBoot access and inturn 2ndihkvc and NOP Bypass or equivalents)
Based on all the feedbacks as well as bit more thinking from my side, I will take a call on this.
Forum moderators I know this is the development portion of the forum, but I wanted feedback from Developers also that is the reason why I have posted here. But beyond that I leave it to you, whether you want this to continue here or move it out.
UART access is not sufficient, as it is required during every reboot of the device if we wanted to have a custom kernel and ROM. This is simply an unacceptable state of affairs. (Say, my tablet turns off while on holiday, or at the airport. What then am I to do? Let is sit and wait off until I can get back home to my UART equipment in order to reboot?
The idea that the UART work around is sufficient is a nice one, however it is wrong.
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Oh also, it's just a matter of time before they patch the u-boot in the Nook Tablet anyways... so it's not like this UART method is going to stick around forever anyways.
cfoesch said:
UART access is not sufficient, as it is required during every reboot of the device if we wanted to have a custom kernel and ROM. This is simply an unacceptable state of affairs. (Say, my tablet turns off while on holiday, or at the airport. What then am I to do? Let is sit and wait off until I can get back home to my UART equipment in order to reboot?
The idea that the UART work around is sufficient is a nice one, however it is wrong.
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Oh also, it's just a matter of time before they patch the u-boot in the Nook Tablet anyways... so it's not like this UART method is going to stick around forever anyways.
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Hi
I understand the restrictions of UART access, but a lot of ROMS can be done with 2ndihkvc or equivalent methods and with out needing a Custom kernel. If someone is talking about Custom/New kernel for Android 4.0 (ICS). Then note my statement (in NOP BYPASS thread) on POWER of KERNEL MODULES in Linux, IT CAN BE USED TO ACHIEVE what you want to achieve, only that it requires bit more effort, which I or some one else has not put currently... thats all.
By holding off now, we can potentially reap the benifit with next years Nook Tab+ or what ever they call it.
Im not a Developer but I've got a few questions. NOP requires to open up your device, so I think probably 95% won't open their device for ICS and I think since the device had a dual core CPU we should get ICS roms. Now my actual question how does your 2init work or how do you install it on our device? But great work so far keep on.
Sent from my SGH-T989
Just out the flaw now. Someone else might reveal it and you won't get the credit.
Don't you want a Wikipedia entry saying that you found this flaw? lol.
PM me about the flaw, I'll see if we should have it outed yet or not (sorry guys, but if it's a decent exploitable flaw and we have other methods, I'm pretty sure I'm with hkvc on it.)
xdahgary said:
Just out the flaw now. Someone else might reveal it and you won't get the credit.
Don't you want a Wikipedia entry saying that you found this flaw? lol.
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Not worried for 2 reasons,
a) It doesn't bother if my name comes or not. I am exploring just for the fun of exploring.
AND MORE IMPORTANTLY,
b) Actually I have already revealed the flaw in my NOP Bypass thread, indirectly, if only, one reads carefully all my lines as well as between them. Only that I have just replaced one or two of the steps with a different steps thats all for now.
If someone else find the same flaw, he will realise the same, if he reads my posts once again with his new knowledge.
What an awesome idea, we can have a root for the Nook Tablet+ or whatever else in a years time!
...
So, um... what do I do now with my Nook Tablet? It's a piece of garbage now, I guess, so, I'll just return it since it's still within the Holiday return period? I suppose I'll just have to wait for the Nook Tablet+ to have a custom ROM running on my Nook... ("But you can UART hack it!" ... *sigh* I've already explain that that is not sufficient. The UART hack is a stop gap, and should only be stopped at if that is the absolute only option available.)
And I mean no disrespect to xIndirect, but why should he be the lone gatekeeper of what exploits and hacks are out there for the Nook Tablet? I would rather see this exploit before making a decision as well, but I don't think it fair that someone should have privileged access to the exploit. Either release it to everyone or DON'T SAY ANYTHING IN THE FIRST PLACE.
cfoesch, I have no plans to be using the exploit shown for myself. I am not going to be the "lone gatekeeper" I just want to know what it is before I give my full opinion. Chill.
Motorola Defy was locked bootloader too, may be to try and run port Defy bootmenu for Nook Tablet?
source: github.com/CyanogenDefy/android_external_bootmenu
Indirect said:
cfoesch, I have no plans to be using the exploit shown for myself. I am not going to be the "lone gatekeeper" I just want to know what it is before I give my full opinion. Chill.
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If you buy a plot of land and the seller has accidentally left seeds there and isn't coming back for them, do you grow a garden on your current plot of land, or do you decide not to plant them and hope that the next time you buy a plot of land they might forget some seeds again?
I would rather tend the garden I own than hope for a better plot of land with seeds I may never have.
Cheers!
-M
XDA member since 2007
Sorry if my post is offtopic, I just want to help with development.
My SE Xperia x10 came worh a locked bootloader and devs figured out how to make a bootable recovery (xrecovery) based on CWM, may be with an adaptation for the NT we can get the world of custom roms, even with locked bootloader this crappy phone got cuatom kernels by bypassing the bootloader, hope this give little ligth to you guys the real Developers.
If this post is garbage mods please delate it.
Sent from my BNTV250 using xda premium
Hello, I beleive if there is a software way to get ICS + maybe overclocking it should be tried first as this IS what most people are waiting for. That's the big dream they got. If someone knows how to implement that, then please by all means do so ..
P.S. you said so much where to look for the flaw in your posts that if I was a programmer from B&N I'd know where to look like everybody else. Assuming they are not complete morons they can already figure it out too. Can they plug the hole or not? Is it oversight or permanent design flaw ? We'll see. Best way to keep a secret is to " keep it secret " , ie not talk about it at all. Especially if soft mod ICS, hw acceleration and overclocking already available.
Sent from my LG-P500 using Much Love
First of all hkvc +1 for your efforts.
I voted yes, the NT developers can read between the lines in your posts as well.
Whats life without risks once in a while
Hi All,
I understand very well that even BN devs will be looking and potentially can figure out and fix it. That is the risk, but at one level I don't mind taking the risk and see if it works out to my/our advantage (i.e the bug being still open in a new device (From BN or any other Vendor)) or disadvantage(the bug is either way fixed).
Also the flaw can affect ANY DEVICE (Not just NOOK TAB) using similar secure boot chain not just NookTab, that is also one reason why I am bit wary of releasing the info or a implementation which uses it just like that.
I will share my finding with few people on the forum/outside in few days time so that even If I loose interest in this, there will be few people with the required knowledge (i.e if they haven't already figured out on their own by then (and released something or not ...)).
Also I haven't taken a final call on this yet. I am in a delima, so getting all your opinions also before I decide.
Time permitting I will also attack/explore the KERNEL MODULE PATH in a few days time, so that people don't have to depend on this flaw in the first place, but use the wonderful world of Linux Kernel Modules to achieve what they want.
LexS007 said:
Motorola Defy was locked bootloader too, may be to try and run port Defy bootmenu for Nook Tablet?
source: github.com/CyanogenDefy/android_external_bootmenu
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Hi,
With my modified 2nd-init (2ndihkvc), you can run bootmenu or any other user space mechanisms already on NookTab
absolutely YES, we r all xdaers, right hehehe. Thanks all devs especially hkvc for the efforts
hkvc said:
Hi,
With my modified 2nd-init (2ndihkvc), you can run bootmenu or any other user space mechanisms already on NookTab
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It's very good. Thanks!!!
First off, not a dev but read religiously.
2nd, release it if the people who would take advantage of it agree. The rest of us say "great,woohoo!" But I must admit, I can't take advantage of it. But I certainly don't want to make a hardware uart to boot custom roms.
That being said, if its more complicated to install with a different method, that's fine. As long as it doesn't include a soldering iron.
But if it were easier to make a custom rom, or open up more capabilities of the kernal or whathaveyou, well that would attract more developers to make roms, etc. and so on and so forth.
Btw. Yes, exploit may exist if outedin a later tablet, but you found this one.... I have faith the next flaw will be found in the next one too.
A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
Posted from my B&N Nook Tablet... rooted of course!
jotekman said:
A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
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I would say this summarizes everything I want to say on the topic.
Hi all!
As this is my first post, i apologies in advance in case i'm not following some of the proper ways, is such the case, please let me know.
I have search and can't find any thread about this, so here i'm writing.
So, i need to drop the android from the atrix phone and install a native linux on it.
I don't need all the phone functionality, but i DO need access to use all the hardware (i'm planning to use this as an industrial grade motherboard)
Right now my problem is that i have recompile kerner, initrd, even system, but i can't get the linux working properly... my big problem is that i can't initialize the console (no via native screen or hdmi :S) i have try the CM7 kernel and a compiled by my self kernel also, but no way.
I have lots of experience on linux on pc, but this is my first working on a arm or a android based board/phone.
Can someone give me a hand or guide me thou?
Or maybe there is an img there with what i need and i can't find it?
THANKS IN ADVANCE!!!
You'll need to search but I'm pretty sure I saw where a functional edition of Ubuntu was ported to the Atrix about a year ago. I'm not sure how far they took it though.
Sent from my MB860 using xda app-developers app
AnotherBill said:
You'll need to search but I'm pretty sure I saw where a functional edition of Ubuntu was ported to the Atrix about a year ago. I'm not sure how far they took it though.
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I have search it and can't find it :S (maybe the project never go far enough?)
Thanks!
There is no Linux replacement for Android on the Atrix. Best you will do is to use Ubuntop, Gentop, etc., as Webtop replacements.
Wee bit of searching and you would have known this.
Cheers!
My Atrix got it's case cracked and the touch-screen display died, and given I already got a replacement phone I feel a bit adventurous. I wanted to see if I could build my own computer with what remains, so I wanted to run Linux natively (no Android). Given that there's a Linux 4 Tegra from Nvidia:
Is there a chance that I could build my own distro based on that?
Should I use another kernel (like the one currently used in gingerbread or CM7)?
Please note that I'm not trying to do webtop.
I thought of building my own handheld with the Atrix, or what remains of it. So any tips on how to get started would be great.
Cheers!
wrong section
ovitz said:
wrong section
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Umm... what section would you suggest other than Q&A?
It was moved. Sorry 'bout that. I was under the impression that development questions were on the other forum...
"Android development" is in the description. I think they keep that forum just for Android-specific things, even though Android is just a flavor of linux.
tonglebeak said:
"Android development" is in the description. I think they keep that forum just for Android-specific things, even though Android is just a flavor of linux.
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You're being way too literal. It's been used for all sorts of non-Android dev multiple times. Right now, Boot2Gecko is right there. The fact of the matter is that when it pertains to dev questions, this post would most likely be answered there. I'm pretty sure it'll die here on this forum with barely any useful answer, if at all.
The development section is mostly for things that are "in progress", ie. with "something to show". Questions, discussions and ideas go elsewhere.
As for your question, I believe I've seen a thread about this already, and quite recently too.
ravilov said:
The development section is mostly for things that are "in progress", ie. with "something to show". Questions, discussions and ideas go elsewhere.
As for your question, I believe I've seen a thread about this already, and quite recently too.
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I've checked a few that I've found on the forum, but most had no answer and were about other devices. With regards to the Atrix or the Tegra, I've only found threads about webtop.
Not to argue too much about this too much, but I've seen threads that started with nothing in the dev section. Like the Kernel porting project that started as a mere placeholder for the project. Point is, I've done my research and found no pointers to the questions I have. I made it in case another dev had an idea about it. I may have missed something, but that's why I asked in the first place. If I believed I had covered all grounds by myself, I wouldn't have asked in the first place.
Lugaidster said:
I've checked a few that I've found on the forum, but most had no answer and were about other devices. With regards to the Atrix or the Tegra, I've only found threads about webtop.
Not to argue too much about this too much, but I've seen threads that started with nothing in the dev section. Like the Kernel porting project that started as a mere placeholder for the project. Point is, I've done my research and found no pointers to the questions I have. I made it in case another dev had an idea about it. I may have missed something, but that's why I asked in the first place. If I believed I had covered all grounds by myself, I wouldn't have asked in the first place.
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What you're looking to do seems similar to this question: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2110161
The difference between the webtop and a stand alone installation of Linux won't be that different, mainly it would just be where on the device the OS is installed and how video is handled. That said, I'm not sure about the kernel, specifically the video drivers, since they're intended for Android and may not be compatible with X. AFAIK, Wayland is closer to Android than X is, but Wayland isn't quite ready.
Anyway, assuming you did succeed, what you would end up with would be less like a true desktop (as you'd be pretty much locked into a specific kernel, and therefor any packages limited by it, but it doesn't invalidate the effort), and more like a persistent live CD, since the OS would be installed to an area mounted as read-only (to prevent flash wear), with access to an area that has read/write access, like in Android where you store apps and user files. Overall, it could be fun if you enjoy a challenge and aren't intimidated by soldering and using the JTAG connector.
lehjr said:
What you're looking to do seems similar to this question: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2110161
The difference between the webtop and a stand alone installation of Linux won't be that different, mainly it would just be where on the device the OS is installed and how video is handled. That said, I'm not sure about the kernel, specifically the video drivers, since they're intended for Android and may not be compatible with X. AFAIK, Wayland is closer to Android than X is, but Wayland isn't quite ready.
Anyway, assuming you did succeed, what you would end up with would be less like a true desktop (as you'd be pretty much locked into a specific kernel, and therefor any packages limited by it, but it doesn't invalidate the effort), and more like a persistent live CD, since the OS would be installed to an area mounted as read-only (to prevent flash wear), with access to an area that has read/write access, like in Android where you store apps and user files. Overall, it could be fun if you enjoy a challenge and aren't intimidated by soldering and using the JTAG connector.
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Actually, I might have to do soldering anyway. I'm not really intimidated by it and don't really care all that much for phone functionality and such. I'm not even interested all that much in X as my project is more towards transforming it into a handheld gaming (more like emu) device. I don't mind compiling software specifically for the system. The question is pretty low-level in that regard for me. I want to know if I have to do anything with regards to the kernel since it's specific to Android. Given that most emus I know that would run acceptably in a tegra 2 don't really need the GPU, I don't mind just using framebuffer so HW doesn't really interest me.
Lugaidster said:
Actually, I might have to do soldering anyway. I'm not really intimidated by it and don't really care all that much for phone functionality and such. I'm not even interested all that much in X as my project is more towards transforming it into a handheld gaming (more like emu) device. I don't mind compiling software specifically for the system. The question is pretty low-level in that regard for me. I want to know if I have to do anything with regards to the kernel since it's specific to Android. Given that most emus I know that would run acceptably in a tegra 2 don't really need the GPU, I don't mind just using framebuffer so HW doesn't really interest me.
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Unfortunately, it's going to be one of those areas where you'll have to make an educated guess, since as far as we know, no one has successfully pulled off a straight Linux implementation on the device.
That said, nVidia does have both Android and Linux images for the Ventana dev kit, so it should be possible. In my case, I would compare the source code for their Linux kernel vs the stock Linux kernel vs their closest Android kernel vs the stock Android kernel. The biggest thing is how the the device specific files translate from one kernel to another, because you'll likely need to translate the device specific files for the Atrix in the same manner. The changes may be subtle or they may be drastic. The main thing is to just be able to set the pins properly so you don't release any "magic smoke". Unfortunately, I see no source code for any of nVidia's kernels.
Anyway, that's how I would do it, but I do suspect that someone with more knowledge could find a much simpler approach and hopefully they'll chime in, but this part of the forums isn't the thriving hub of activity it used to be, so I don't know if that will happen any time soon or at all.
lehjr said:
nVidia does have both Android and Linux images for the Ventana dev kit
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Atrix is a Whistler, not a Ventana.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=33289027#post33289027
ravilov said:
Atrix is a Whistler, not a Ventana.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=33289027#post33289027
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Thanks for the heads up and the link! :highfive:
Is it possible to port/install Windows Phone 8 on an Android based device?
No. But Android W8 themes/Roms have been made. Basically modifies the look of android to achieve the look of W8
I'm not really focused on the look, rather the OS itself. Much like one could flash iOS onto an Android device.
You mean the menus as opposed to the live tiles? IOS can't be done either.
I'm talking about replacing the Android OS (kernel, /system, /data, all partitions) with the Windows Phone 8 OS. Not just the UI, but the whole thing.
@xlxcrossing he's wanting to replace the entire OS, not just the UI. Like putting Ubuntu on a Windows PC.
As for the original question, it could, in theory, be possible. However, it would be extremely difficult due to WP8 being closed source, and not based on Linux. You would pretty much have to start from scratch, and many parts of it would most likely be broken and unfixable. It would be hard to find a dev willing to take it on. It's not the same as porting AOSP or even Ubuntu Touch.
Sent from my crDroid DNA
@_phoey Thanks for the answer. Has Ubuntu Touch been ported yet? Or can I just go to Ubuntu's website and snag it there?
EDIT:
I found this http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2199491
But it's tools to build. Something I'm unable to do (not lack of wanting to learn, but unstable internet to setup buildbox).
PrimeMinister91 said:
@_phoey Thanks for the answer. Has Ubuntu Touch been ported yet? Or can I just go to Ubuntu's website and snag it there?
EDIT:
I found this http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2199491
But it's tools to build. Something I'm unable to do (not lack of wanting to learn, but unstable internet to setup buildbox).
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I think that someone here began work on it, but never got it to a stable state. I also have an unstable internet connection, and am also lacking a somewhat modern PC with enough memory and storage to build on, or I would attempt it.
Sent from my crDroid DNA
_phoey said:
@xlxcrossing he's wanting to replace the entire OS, not just the UI. Like putting Ubuntu on a Windows PC.
As for the original question, it could, in theory, be possible. However, it would be extremely difficult due to WP8 being closed source, and not based on Linux. You would pretty much have to start from scratch, and many parts of it would most likely be broken and unfixable. It would be hard to find a dev willing to take it on. It's not the same as porting AOSP or even Ubuntu Touch.
Sent from my crDroid DNA
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I Knew that, he made a comment about the "look" being different from the "OS itself" in regards to me telling him there are themes that transform it into Windows 8. My first answer was the short version of yours, which was no.
xlxcrossing said:
I Knew that, he made a comment about the "look" being different from the "OS itself" in regards to me telling him there are themes that transform it into Windows 8. My first answer was the short version of yours, which was no.
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With all due respect, your original answers seemed rather vague and easily misunderstood. They led me to believe that you were thinking he was just wanting a theme, not the entire OS. My apologies for misunderstanding.
Sent from my crDroid DNA
_phoey said:
With all due respect, your original answers seemed rather vague and easily misunderstood. They led me to believe that you were thinking he was just wanting a theme, not the entire OS. My apologies for misunderstanding.
Sent from my crDroid DNA
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Not really. He said he wanted WP8 which I understood completely. But why would someone want that but then not care about how it looks? His response is what was confusing, so I ushered him in a direction to get the Windows 8 "experience" on his phone without the actual port which at this time as you've already stated doesn't exist. So in review I helped him to go toward what he wanted as opposed to describing why something isn't available. Vague and to-the-point are separate things.