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Dont mean to be an ass but what in the world is with the 8 different types of mdeejay builds. I honestly think they are cluttering up the forums and just causing confusion for me at least. When I looked through the different types they all seemed to be around the same stage of development. Can all of these get consolidated with better explanations?
Based on different roms, Desire HD, Desire Z etc
Full hogwash!
Krazy_Calvin said:
Dont mean to be an ass but what in the world is with the 8 different types of mdeejay builds. I honestly think they are cluttering up the forums and just causing confusion for me at least. When I looked through the different types they all seemed to be around the same stage of development. Can all of these get consolidated with better explanations?
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Because he is trying to figure out which build is better to continue development with. Which is awesome, and what is NOT awesome is people like you that put there foot in there mouth talking about clogging the forums, at least his threads are useful. Yours is useless.
Somebody please list the differences between them beside the name
Thank you.
They're all android 2.2, they all have essentially the same kernel, they just have slightly differing versions of sense. So yeah, um...
I think the better topic for this thread would have been 'What are some of the primary differences people are seeing between the different builds mdeejay is working on'. Let's not bash the fact that mdeejay is doing something pretty un precedented on any device, developing 5 builds simultaneously!
They are each based on different roms and most have the same things functioning/not functioning (ie. gsensor yes, camera no) but I'll admit I was a little overwhelmed shuffling through the many pages on each thread. I really want to try one of his builds because I've read a lot of great things about them but I can't decide which one to use . I don't like switching back and forth too much because I need a stable build day to day and don't have much time to do a lot of trial and error, so I depend on helpful xda'ers and their reviews.
So, OP, maybe change the tone of your post to poll the pros/cons of each build for those that have been able to try several of them out.
Thanks!
WTF!
Krazy_Calvin said:
Dont mean to be an ass but what in the world is with the 8 different types of mdeejay builds. I honestly think they are cluttering up the forums and just causing confusion for me at least. When I looked through the different types they all seemed to be around the same stage of development. Can all of these get consolidated with better explanations?
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OMG shut your FACE I hate to add to this stupid thread but OP if you read anything other than just looking at the thread that says mdeejay you would know one is evo one is desire hd one is z one is lexicon they are all different builds so shut up and enjoy! Sorry but your question is stupid LOOK and you will see the difference. MDEEJAY keep rolling them out i cant get enough we will find a PERFECT stable build with everything working but we need to work together! I personally like the desire hd builds and the evo they seem to be smoother.
motoman234 said:
Because he is trying to figure out which build is better to continue development with. Which is awesome, and what is NOT awesome is people like you that put there foot in there mouth talking about clogging the forums, at least his threads are useful. Yours is useless.
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i agree with u ....
is the same of the same
maybe in last build he changeg kernel... maybe some better than others
An ass! That's exactly what you are!! Mdeejay is doing all of this without even a donate link. I have certainly tested all his builds and currently have 2 running. So u may not, but most find his builds and the options they offer useful. So please STFU if you are not going to contribute anything useful to the forum.
Krazy_Calvin said:
Dont mean to be an ass but what in the world is with the 8 different types of mdeejay builds. I honestly think they are cluttering up the forums and just causing confusion for me at least. When I looked through the different types they all seemed to be around the same stage of development. Can all of these get consolidated with better explanations?
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Sent from my HTC HD2 using XDA App
instead of being a ****, read the posts.
they are each based off of different HTC devices. with slightly different versions of their ROM.
for example the DesireHD and the DesireZ are two new phones coming out.
if you follow android phones, you would know this. since you dont know this i assume you are just here for sport. so sell your HD2 and buy an iFone
Mdeejay is doing an outstanding job
and haters..get the F*** lost.
I only to thank to mr mdeejay for hard work that we can try day by day on our h2d. Is with person like Mdeejay and the other devs that will be as soon a stable and definitive android on hd2. Person that lost their sleep only to give us news builds day by day.... So, i want to thank again this man... And sorry for my english..
STOP.
first off i am not to found of mdeejay but the guy is doing the job no one else is doing , so to OP , i think you can find something else or somewhere else to clutter the forums not here ...so i will give respect where its due and mdeejay gets respect from me so ..back off
Hopefully Captain Mdeejay will ignore this perp... he is probably jealous
Sent from my HTC HD2 using XDA App
I find it UNBELIEVABLE that some people still find something to complain about.
Mdeejay has given up his spare time to create something for the community, "FOR FREE", so that they can use something they are not entitled to use on their devices and still they are not happy.
Really, it is Unbelievable.
"KRAZY"
Krazy_Calvin said:
Dont mean to be an ass but what in the world is with the 8 different types of mdeejay builds. I honestly think they are cluttering up the forums and just causing confusion for me at least. When I looked through the different types they all seemed to be around the same stage of development. Can all of these get consolidated with better explanations?
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the name explains everything "KRAZY"
what KRAZY things people say....
The OP has a point - Mdeejay's builds are confusing with so many of them and all of them offering the exact same functions. It would be nice to see a spreadsheet or something that higlights what the differences are.
On the other hand Mdeejay does put alot of time into his builds and updates them far more often than any other chef. I think if the OP had just used a nicer tone his post would not have been out of line at all.
Most of them are based off other phones too,like the Z is based off the G2
After searching through the changelogs of many of Team Whiskey's and Master's Axura roms, I have noticed that many of the changelog features are framework changes and new skins on the stock rom. That being said, I am not flaming anyone as I do appreciate their work but are many devs for the Vibrant skinners or true coders such as Barack, Eugene, etc?
Again, THIS IS NOT A POST TO START FLAMING PEOPLE!
I'm going to leave this open for the time being with the understanding that the thread may be closed by the designated Moderator for this forum the moment the thread goes off-topic.
I'm about as "true developer" as you can get. I've written software in machine language and entered it in hex with a 16-key pad. I've written embedded systems. I've written software that was good enough that MS bought the company. I've written drivers. I've run dev shops with 400 employees. I have systems in production that process more than $150 billion worth of annual global transactions. There isn't a lot in the software world that I haven't tried my hand at.
And *I* don't have the time to screw around with building something like Nero v3. But I flashed it the other day and it rocked the tits off my previously-stock-Eclair phone, and I was pretty satisfied with the whole thing, and it never once occurred to me to wonder whether the TW guys were "real" developers or not.
In short: who cares? I willing to bet I can lay claim to the title "developer" on par with the hardest of the hardcore coders here, and I'm here to tell you if it bothers you that they're calling themselves developers because you suspect they may not size up to your standards, you should probably just move along -- or keep it to yourself.
Maybe a swift kick in the balls would've been kinder.....a little over the line I think. I really don't care who it is, but anyone who takes the time to change framwork or "reskin" a ROM has done more than my fat little fingers can do. They may not all be as great as Team Whiskey or Eugene, but they still develop something, so in short, sure they are all developers. As long as someone gives credit where due, and asked permission where necessary, then the laws of the universe are still being followed......
XPLANE9 said:
After searching through the changelogs of many of Team Whiskey's and Master's Axura roms, I have noticed that many of the changelog features are framework changes and new skins on the stock rom. That being said, I am not flaming anyone as I do appreciate their work but are many devs for the Vibrant skinners or true coders such as Barack, Eugene, etc?
Again, THIS IS NOT A POST TO START FLAMING PEOPLE!
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I think it is a fair enough question to post... but I ask you, what is it that you hope to answer or establish? Guidelines to correct nomenclature? E-peen? I just don't quite get the nature of your interrogatory...
hilaireg said:
I'm going to leave this open for the time being with the understanding that the thread may be closed by the designated Moderator for this forum the moment the thread goes off-topic.
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Kudos to you... that is exactly why a functioning MOD committee is a great thing for XDA. I applaud your commitment to open discourse.
MV10 said:
I'm about as "true developer" as you can get. I've written software in machine language and entered it in hex with a 16-key pad. I've written embedded systems. I've written software that was good enough that MS bought the company. I've written drivers. I've run dev shops with 400 employees. I have systems in production that process more than $150 billion worth of annual global transactions. There isn't a lot in the software world that I haven't tried my hand at.
And *I* don't have the time to screw around with building something like Nero v3. But I flashed it the other day and it rocked the tits off my previously-stock-Eclair phone, and I was pretty satisfied with the whole thing, and it never once occurred to me to wonder whether the TW guys were "real" developers or not.
In short: who cares? I willing to bet I can lay claim to the title "developer" on par with the hardest of the hardcore coders here, and I'm here to tell you if it bothers you that they're calling themselves developers because you suspect they may not size up to your standards, you should probably just move along -- or keep it to yourself.
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Listing your credentials may (and I stress may) have been a bit over the top... but point well taken nonetheless.
gtiryan said:
Maybe a swift kick in the balls would've been kinder.....a little over the line I think. I really don't care who it is, but anyone who takes the time to change framwork or "reskin" a ROM has done more than my fat little fingers can do. They may not all be as great as Team Whiskey or Eugene, but they still develop something, so in short, sure they are all developers. As long as someone gives credit where due, and asked permission where necessary, then the laws of the universe are still being followed......
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Also very fair point...
XPLANE9 said:
After searching through the changelogs of many of Team Whiskey's and Master's Axura roms, I have noticed that many of the changelog features are framework changes and new skins on the stock rom. That being said, I am not flaming anyone as I do appreciate their work but are many devs for the Vibrant skinners or true coders such as Barack, Eugene, etc?
Again, THIS IS NOT A POST TO START FLAMING PEOPLE!
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Soo, you call two set of dev teams just skinners.. and one team coders, yet expect not to start a flame war?
I also don't know how you get "many of master's axura roms" there is only ONE axura rom.. And if you look at features, you could tell that it is not just a "Skin" you could also tell that in the change-logs if you looked past "Just framework mods" framework mods aren't just images btw.
If you honestly don't want to start a flame war, it is best not to post these types of threads.
I've considered this question myself and the answer I've come up with is, I don't care.
Whether they're truly writing new code or just reskinning or theming it's still more than I can do. They do it in their spare time and offer their work to us for free. So I guess my question to you is, what difference does it make?
Poser said:
Listing your credentials may (and I stress may) have been a bit over the top... but point well taken nonetheless.
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I have a pretty strong suspicion that the OP is a developer and is trying to pull the "harder-core than thou" card, so it seemed appropriate at the time.
There is ALWAYS somebody better than you. If you're smart, you'll call those people "employees."
I agree with that I don't really care, as long as who ever it may be, don't start releasing garbage that bricks my phone, I'm content.
I don't run an empire of $888.000.656.99...gabillion dollars with 2 interlaced brains that can code the matrix's live wallpaper, but in my little, I'm able to flash a ROM or 2.
XPLANE9 said:
After searching through the changelogs of many of Team Whiskey's and Master's Axura roms, I have noticed that many of the changelog features are framework changes and new skins on the stock rom. That being said, I am not flaming anyone as I do appreciate their work but are many devs for the Vibrant skinners or true coders such as Barack, Eugene, etc?
Again, THIS IS NOT A POST TO START FLAMING PEOPLE!
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When you write something remotely as good as Axura or V3 then you can make these statements.
Until then you're just being an ignorant troll.
The op is a flame in itself, why is it still up?
willsnews said:
The op is a flame in itself, why is it still up?
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^^Have to agree personally.
Anyway, anyone who develops something is a developer (dur). This means themes, mods, guides, roms, etc.
As for the ignorant comment the OP made about changelogs, most "devs" don't take the time to list off every detail of the performance enhancements they made. Why? Because you wouldn't know what they're talking about if they did, and there's too many to list. If you're one of the few that could actually read and understand such a changelog, then you probably could be/are making your own roms anyway.
Yes some roms available on any phone's forum are more build around aesthetic changes, while others are geared towards efficiency, while others for raw power. That doesn't make one superior to another, but rather simply built for a different consumer.
MWBehr said:
^^Have to agree personally.
Anyway, anyone who develops something is a developer (dur). This means themes, mods, guides, roms, etc.
As for the ignorant comment the OP made about changelogs, most "devs" don't take the time to list off every detail of the performance enhancements they made. Why? Because you wouldn't know what they're talking about if they did, and there's too many to list. If you're one of the few that could actually read and understand such a changelog, then you probably could be/are making your own roms anyway.
Yes some roms available on any phone's forum are more build around aesthetic changes, while others are geared towards efficiency, while others for raw power. That doesn't make one superior to another, but rather simply built for a different consumer.
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i just made a do-do in the toilet, am i a developer?
jk lol
MWBehr said:
most "devs" don't take the time to list off every detail of the performance enhancements they made. Why? Because you wouldn't know what they're talking about if they did, and there's too many to list. If you're one of the few that could actually read and understand such a changelog, then you probably could be/are making your own roms anyway.
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I have to agree with this. I remember on Obsidian V5 Sombionix listed in the change log in great detail what he changed including userscripts and kernel tweaks only to be bombarded with questions about what they meant/do. A lot of the users don't understand the technical aspects and just want something "cool." Devs already get blasted with a barrage of questions and really don't need to add more fuel to the fire so to speak. It seems the OP more or less called TW and Master "skinners." The above says otherwise regarding TW and as for Master just look at the layout of his latest "beast" not to mention the Sense port he got booting on our phones. I would definitely call this development, wouldn't you agree?
xriderx66 said:
i just made a do-do in the toilet, am i a developer?
jk lol
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I know you were only making a joke, but basically (using it as an anology of course) yes. Is a kid that picks up an instrument for the first time a musician? Yes. Is he good or does anyone care that he's a musician? Probably not (other than his parents). Should he share his work with the world? Again, only his parents should hear it.
The point isn't "are you or aren't you a developer" it's simply a mater of what we percieve as different levels in skill. This doesn't even mean that our perception is accurate, but we're entitled to our opinions. And if you think a developer should have kept his work to himself or herself, then don't download it, and all is right in the world.
So yes, if you develop crap, you're still a developer, just maybe shouldn't share your product with the world
Zip Developer, Cyanogen and his Merry men or somebody dropping pure source I can careless. They contribute more than half the downloaders and requesters wanting more.
I say let them do their Jobs and be greatful they are here. Use somebody elses work and give them credit as long as its an option. I like options
I've got thick skin so feel free to throw things.
Watching the forum over the last month I've seen a proliferation of ROMs to the point that I've stopped updating - also partly because my favorite and second favorite teams have stopped putting out new versions. I finally succumbed to the burning urge to try another ROM last night but ended up with buyers "meh."
The ROM environment has become so fragmented that it's hard to know what the advantage of ROM a is over ROM b other than appearance.
A comment from one of the ROM makers brought the problem into sharp focus. "I've renamed my ROM because I didn't know one of my team members already had a ROM named X."
How can you be part of a "team" and not know what's being produced by that team?
It seems like we've got more themers producing work in the form of full ROMs rather than themes. I've got nothing against themers, I love packages that can completely change the look of my device and I'm always on the lookout for cool new themes.
I'd rather see ROM maintainers and themers working together where the former group produces faster and more reliable ROMs while the latter group produces mods for those ROMs.
Do the two groups just not want to work closely together or are there predominantly just mostly lone wolves working at the ROM/theme level in Android?
Wrong section. Suppose to go in q&a (QUESTIONS and answers)
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA Premium App
I disagree because it's directly applicable to development and is aimed at the developers. It's not a general q/a question
I agree with this. There's no need to make a "rom" if you just change the theme. Just make a theme and zip it up then post it in the themes section. And oh yea I believe people refer to these people as "winzippers".
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA App
OP has a great point about our forum here. Ive really stopped doing anything but for my own use, and with the exception of a few real roms put here, I've watched our Vibrant area here turn into a rom porting paradise, without a lot of original work done by people calling themselves devs. Several of these self proclaimed devs have asked me for help with recent projects, and have then been unable to provide even a simple logcat for diagnosis. If someone cant pull a logcat or understand how to do other basics, you really need to take your time and learn.
It is okay to theme and do little things while you learn, and take the time to put out a quality product, instead of a hurried build thats half broken. We have a slight handful of true devs out here, and a whole bunch of people who want to learn, but seem to be in too much of a hurry to kang others work and not really learn how to build a rom from the ground up. Its a damn shame.
Ginger Clones of the World Unite!!! via the XDA App
I agree with Br1cK'd. There are a lot of "devs" lately that seem to be kanging together half broken ROM's. I can't tell you how often lately I've flashed something only to find major bugs, when the OP claims that the ROM is 100 percent working and bug free. It seems that most of the more skilled developers have moved on to newer devices. I'm all for people learning but they need to do a lot of quality control before they post their work on XDA.
are you tryna say my team member ferhanmm that did an error ? whats up with you son?>
But then... what actually constitutes a "Rom".
For as far as I know, according to CM6/7/Miui people, only theirs are truly "Roms", as they are built from ground up.
Everything else is just a themed stock Rom, or improvements to existing Sammy framework. (Which I still love btw)
If there were malicious Roms that are purposely bricking systems, then I would argue for stricter requirements for releases. But as it stands, I think the openness of this forum allows users and developers alike to find what makes them happy.
I just think in general, Rom devs/maintainers get more credit (Thanks button hits?) than purely themers. As there is a feeling that themers kind of "work for" Rom Devs... Which is why people tend to package their work as Roms instead of themes (So their work seems less derivative or what not)
Wrong section, but I agree.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA Premium App
Br1cK'd said:
OP has a great point about our forum here. Ive really stopped doing anything but for my own use, and with the exception of a few real roms put here, I've watched our Vibrant area here turn into a rom porting paradise, without a lot of original work done by people calling themselves devs. Several of these self proclaimed devs have asked me for help with recent projects, and have then been unable to provide even a simple logcat for diagnosis. If someone cant pull a logcat or understand how to do other basics, you really need to take your time and learn.
It is okay to theme and do little things while you learn, and take the time to put out a quality product, instead of a hurried build thats half broken. We have a slight handful of true devs out here, and a whole bunch of people who want to learn, but seem to be in too much of a hurry to kang others work and not really learn how to build a rom from the ground up. Its a damn shame.
Ginger Clones of the World Unite!!! via the XDA App
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first of all about the logcat ? did you learn alone ? i guess that if someone ask you, its nno bad to help is it ? because i bet some one showed you...now about the kang, so almost every rom here is a kang right ? almost all roms based on stocks from i9000s and stocks kb1`s isnt it ?... i guess this people have the right to learn, but seems you guys that already know a little dont like to help huh?
I have more than enough mods on my rom to constitute it not being a theme, and I don't know about you but I don't memorize every rom name out there. It sounded similar so I changed it, what's wrong with that? Since 2.2 has already been tweaked to the max I was able to put out a pretty stable version in the first post. Only things I can really do from here are make it more efficient and finish the theme which I plan to do but I just posted it. And it's my first rom so thanks for the encouragement.
I agree, the forum is filling up with "roms" that are just the same rom rethemed over and over and over again. What annoys me most are these self-proclaimed "devs" who take bits and pieces of other people's work and put them together for their own "rom" when they didn't really write any of it. Just take a look at their credits lol... It's a crazy long list.
I don't think there's anything wrong with having multiple ROMs. After all, everyone will like something different.
I think what the OP is saying though is that there are ROMs out there are essentially the same pieces with different theme, or maybe a new lock screen, and whatnot. I think the OP means little additions like that can be part of a theme or the theme & apps forum and could be added to any ROM and doesn't warrant releasing a new ROM under a new name and new dev.
jimmynguyen91 said:
I agree, the forum is filling up with "roms" that are just the same rom rethemed over and over and over again. What annoys me most are these self-proclaimed "devs" who take bits and pieces of other people's work and put them together for their own "rom" when they didn't really write any of it. Just take a look at their credits lol... It's a crazy long list.
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as my partner said above, hell son you dont undestand, everybody uses tweaks that are made because there is no need to redo it...name me any rom you have created ? do you know about roms? dont be stupid
ColorNapkin said:
I don't think there's anything wrong with having multiple ROMs. After all, everyone will like something different.
I think what the OP is saying though is that there are ROMs out there are essentially the same pieces with different theme, or maybe a new lock screen, and whatnot. I think the OP means little additions like that can be part of a theme or the theme & apps forum and could be added to any ROM and doesn't warrant releasing a new ROM under a new name and new dev.
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+1
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA Premium App
I did my first root about two month ago. Since then I have tried about 20 various roms or updates to them. I tried one last week that seemed to be a copy from an established developer. The other team got really pissy and used alot of immature slang when confronted. I will no longer use any roms from them. I agree that people should learn from the ground up before posting roms and stop the plagiarism.
I appreciate the hard work of the legitimate developers on this site.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
ferhanmm said:
I have more than enough mods on my rom to constitute it not being a theme, and I don't know about you but I don't memorize every rom name out there. It sounded similar so I changed it, what's wrong with that? Since 2.2 has already been tweaked to the max I was able to put out a pretty stable version in the first post. Only things I can really do from here are make it more efficient and finish the theme which I plan to do but I just posted it. And it's my first rom so thanks for the encouragement.
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dont pay attentionn to this ppl fer.. day just stupids ... look at thhe quote i made above.. its just stupid, they want us to redo the same **** that is already made... for example.. whats the need to do a gps fix when jellette made one already ? its just stupid
them may be half a$$ed devs but them gotta have donate button
Bosina & Br1cK'd, first, thanks for your input and participation but this thread isn't about helping or not. It's about packing up thematic changes and publishing them as a ROM rather than a theme bundle.
If a group of members wants to debate about newbies not giving as much as they get, please start a new thread.
bosina said:
as my partner said above, hell son you dont undestand, everybody uses tweaks that are made because there is no need to redo it...name me any rom you have created ? do you know about roms? dont be stupid
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this dude ha ha shut up im trying to read and your comments are unnecessary and full of hate and You act like You are a Big Time developer who dont take s**t from anyone , go smoke something and relax , i dont see Team Whisky complain or Eugene, just You big time savior .
But if the teams join there will be more people to split the donation money between so maybe thats why people stay separate ?
Why has this been locked?? There are no ICS ROM's that are any good??? Santod's basic ROM is just debloated stock.....
I really don't understand why they find the need to play God around here.... There are no ROM's!!! At this point there is no reason for an XDA Thunderbolt page!
STOP LOCKING THREADS... WHO GIVES A CRAP THAT IT IS OFF SANTOD'S BASE... THIS IS WHY THE PEOPLE DO NOT LIKE ANDROID... TOO MUCH POLITICS AND BULL CRAP.. JUST LET THESE GUYS MAKE GOOD ROMS SO WE CAN ENJOY OURSELVES...
THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH BUILDING OFF OTHER PEOPLES WORK.. ESPECIALLY WHEN IT'S CELL PHONE SOFTWARE!
JESUS H CHRIST..,..
Where can I find this ROM now? It has been removed from roots wiki as well?
5 custom ICS roms and 4 stock roms >>> HERE
Look around, there is more then just a stock rom there.
Don't speak about something you do not know the details of.
XDA has rules, so do other sites and when it comes to disrespecting me and the source from which you got your materials from, I then have rules too.
Besides, I have been told numerous times now that what I contributed wasn't anything, and easy enough to do.
So there should be no problem with it standing in any real devs way.
They simply make their own base and move on.
So crying about it is unnecessary for anyone involved, including me.
Everyone just does their own thing and moves on, simple as that.
I am hating on you Santod.. I have a lot of respect for you and i am sure everyone does.. I am on your rom right now.. The non eternity one... And it is honestly awesome, i just want a more aosp rom, i know you have a desense rom in the making but it has been pulled for weeks now.. I wanted to see mack, you, and jester all make a combined kick ass rom.. I am crying because i just want to see the tbolt finally succeed and with the help of all you great devs and hopefully an htc source code release.. The day may come.. I think you should all work together... Everyone respects all the devs but its awesome to see you guya work together.
Sent from my ADR6400L using xda app-developers app
It's still on the host server and plenty are running it.
Check the last few pages of the thread....
I believe I posted 3-4 updates on that rom, this week alone.
Wow now I remember why I just got over this phone and moved on. Santod040 is the only one that attempted to integrate the patches into gb to get ICS for you guys. It wasn't a typical ruu, a lot of work had to go into that integration. And then everyone acted like it was open season on his work. His attitude might have been better if he was ever asked in the first place for it to be used. But he wasn't, and none of the other ICS roms really were any different than any of his. And I have seen a lot of people say that integrating the patches was easy work, but yet no other dev has done it themselves. There's a difference between development and taking someone else's rom zip, theming it, adding other tweaks also developed by someone else, and calling it yours.
Sent from my Galaxy Note II
Re: Need new OTA base
icedventimocha said:
Wow now I remember why I just got over this phone and moved on. Santod040 is the only one that attempted to integrate the patches into gb to get ICS for you guys. It wasn't a typical ruu, a lot of work had to go into that integration. And then everyone acted like it was open season on his work. His attitude might have been better if he was ever asked in the first place for it to be used. But he wasn't, and none of the other ICS roms really were any different than any of his. And I have seen a lot of people say that integrating the patches was easy work, but yet no other dev has done it themselves. There's a difference between development and taking someone else's rom zip, theming it, adding other tweaks also developed by someone else, and calling it yours.
Sent from my Galaxy Note II
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This is a pretty good explanation of where I think santod is coming from even though it isn't coming from him directly. All of you are acting like it was some walk in the park or something to assemble the ota but it sure is taking all of you a lot longer than it took him to do.
Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2
disconnecktie said:
This is a pretty good explanation of where I think santod is coming from even though it isn't coming from him directly. All of you are acting like it was some walk in the park or something to assemble the ota but it sure is taking all of you a lot longer than it took him to do.
Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2
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Not really trying to speak for him, just back him up. It seems the easier rooting/roming becomes the less people seem to understand (or care to understand) what goes into development. They just want it now and don't care how they get it.
Sent from my Galaxy Note II
Everybody respects Santod... but his ROM's are not on XDA they are on Infected Roms.... I am on his NuSense Rom for a while now.... It just seems ridiculous that Mack and Santod could not work together IMO... Now if Mack was refusing to give Santod his fully deserved credit for the Base and Stock Rom then yeah I understand.
I am not hating on Santod what so ever... I am getting the best battery life ever on his NuSense Sense 3.6 Rom... With Nova Launcher it actually moves pretty nice too for stock kernel...
Let's be honest though... Sense 3.6 sucks... Sense Sucks... We all want AOSP.. That is not happening until the Source get's released... so a Desensed Rom is something of extreme interest.
I can not wait for the Jelato Santod Rom to be done... I just figured maybe Mack or Jester may be able to throw Santod some ideas maybe and before you know if we would have a 10x better DeSensed ROM then if it was just by one particular Dev.
Yeah I mean the only thing that bugs me is that while Santod makes a good rom, he cant help himself from customizing it the way *he* likes it, and not the general public at times. Every time I use one of his roms I'm like "wow, amazing performance, sweet battery life, all the features but wtf is up with this font? Why this theme?". It'd be like getting a rewritten AOSP rom built from HTC's source, and then shipping it with a hello kitty theme I liked Mack's work because it had that truly vanilla feel to it with all the under the hood tweaks a launcher like Apex can offer. The new Jelato rom actually runs worse than the unsense rom, albeit just slightly. It's certainly better than Sense, but still kinda leaves something to be desired.
I guess what I ultimately dont get is why anybody cares if someone else rips off your work. It's not like either of them are being paid here, which means it all comes down to fame and recognition. If your motives are pure, and you are simply doing this for the community, then you should be happy that someone went and tweaked a new flavor of your rom for everybody to use. Why there's this whole desire for credit is beyond me. Seems kinda conceited. "How dare you steal my charitable donations!" What have you got to lose?
Like I said, I really dont want to see just one rom developer out there. If santod is the only one left with the skill to properly port these things, then he should be supportive of others customizing his work. It does do him or the community any good to horde all his development unless there's some sort of financial incentive in it for him and he needs revenue from this somehow. And if he gets bored or offended and quits then the TB community just dies forever? That sucks. If the only people left willing to contribute are kanger's, then let them! We cant have our entire community rest in the hands of one developer.
I support and help anybody and everybody that treats me with an ounce of respect.
IT IS NOT ABOUT CREDIT!!!!
I could give a **** about credits or your complaints about my theming.
Maybe the theming is my way of saying it's mine.
The original UnSense was about as Vanilla as it gets really.
If you don't like what I have to offer up, then don't use it, it's simple.
If the fact that someone else left their rom half sense and half aosp makes it more vanilla for you, then fine.
Use his pieced together rom, I don't care.
What do you guys want from me?
Sure, treat me like an asshole, but feel free to help yourself to my stuff....
Anyone whining about this still, needs to get a life.
Any real developer wouldn't have batted an eye, made their own base and rolled along.
If what I contributed was "nothing" and easy to do, why all the fuss?
By the way, everyone else loves the theme, you happen to be the first to complain about how it looks.
There is this thing called UOT and another called apktool, maybe you should find those and learn to use them, before you go criticizing anymore work of others.
You may find yourself with ZERO rom options!
Any useful thread on the matter that is not just santod vs the world or people complaining about locked threads will not be closed.
This is not such a thread.
They serve no useful purpose for the community.
If you have issue with this PM me, I am not looking to "play God" or any some such activity, but the denizens of this community must be spared such drama as found in this thread.
Let's all work together to create a better development community.
Theres something that was pointed out to me by a new friend, that I had to vent about.. so HERE IT IS!!1
Why are some people too good to hang out in their threads and answer questions about the builds they post???
It seems to me that it builds credibility, to help the people using your build, so why not hang out and answer questions, address issues, help finding solutions, offer advice... BE HUMAN
Sure its great that new builds are being pushed out constantly... BUT IF YOURE NOT TALKING TO THE PEOPLE RUNNING THE CURRENT ONE AND EXPERIENCING PROBLEMS WHAT GOOD IS IT????
Step down from the clouds, and walk barefoot on the grass with the rest of us.. its cool and refreshing on your feet
WOW Man..
pitbull8265 said:
Theres something that was pointed out to me by a new friend, that I had to vent about.. so HERE IT IS!!1
Why are some people too good to hang out in their threads and answer questions about the builds they post???
It seems to me that it builds credibility, to help the people using your build, so why not hang out and answer questions, address issues, help finding solutions, offer advice... BE HUMAN
Sure its great that new builds are being pushed out constantly... BUT IF YOURE NOT TALKING TO THE PEOPLE RUNNING THE CURRENT ONE AND EXPERIENCING PROBLEMS WHAT GOOD IS IT????
Step down from the clouds, and walk barefoot on the grass with the rest of us.. its cool and refreshing on your feet
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Could not have said it better.... You hit the nail right on the head.. People respect those who back their work with support:good::good::good:
This DOES seem to be in SHORT reserve.. WELL STATED
Impressive
I have noticed this too.. Its like these people are too GOOD for Q&A and sometimes even respond to questions like they are PETTY and an inconvenience.. There ARE some who DO help, and those people deserve to know they are appreciated.. You in particular, have helped me a ton, so thanks.. Maybe you'll start a movement, and more people will start doing their part to help their followers...
+1
There is a SERIOUS shortage of helpers and an overage of shovelers
All these builds keep coming, and still the same problems on the one they put out before with a different NAME for the ROM.. Its like they change the name and recycled it..
I read through threads now, and if the OP doesn't hang out and help their users, I wont use their builds anymore.
Couldn't agree more!! Nicely said too
Be proud of your work.. Stick around and make sure people can..ya know, enjoy it too..
It's quality not quantity that matters. Stepping on other teams and developers to rush something out just to say "FIRST" will get you no where.. So while timely updates are important, if that's the only thing you post in your own thread.. "New build is up" when there's been 10 pages of people asking questions... I'll never support you, both publicly or financially.
I understand new enthusiast can be quite frustrating or maybe you just aren't a people type of person.. team up with someone that is... pass the q&a on to them, but do fricking something, people want support for YOUR roms and if you put out 20..that means all 20.
Exactly, how dare these developers not spend any time in the forums answering the same useless non-informative questions over and over. How dare they spend countless hours building a ROMs for free and then share it for others to use. How dare they spend time with their families and go to their actual job and have a life. How dare they….. (/sarcasm)
mapatton82 said:
Exactly, how dare these developers not spend any time in the forums answering the same useless non-informative questions over and over. How dare they spend countless hours building a ROMs for free and then share it for others to use. How dare they spend time with their families and go to their actual job and have a life. How dare they….. (/sarcasm)
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Yea, I'm somewhere between this and the op. They shouldn't be 100% absent, but on the same note, some consideration for the above quote is in order too.
While were venting, its possible the devs haven't figured out how to fix some of these issues, but it doesn't do a dam bit of good for 50 people to complain about the same thing and no one is posting logcats. So don't complain about things not getting fixed, if your not attaching logs to every post about issues.
Just my 2c, add 97c more and go buy a cheeseburger.
Sent from my G3, Unlocked by Team Codefire
mapatton82 said:
Exactly, how dare these developers not spend any time in the forums answering the same useless non-informative questions over and over. How dare they spend countless hours building a ROMs for free and then share it for others to use. How dare they spend time with their families and go to their actual job and have a life. How dare they….. (/sarcasm)
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Then why put out 20 instead of 1 that they can handle is the point!!
Variety is the spice of life. I'd rather have 20 that will get fixed eventually than just 1 that works perfectly. If they are all too similar for you then just move on to another one, build your own, or just wait for fully featured lollipop which will be here soon enough. If a thread is maintained or not - I'm just happy to have a thread. A couple devs have walked away already and it'd suck if more left. Just be grateful for what we've got and be patient.
Kris Nelson said:
Then why put out 20 instead of 1 that they can handle is the point!!
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The same person is not releasing 20 different versions. Also, most are all based off of the AOSP core source, but each dev might add their own touch/flare to it. But, since each one is based off of AOSP, then more than likely, they will all have the same issues, unless the dev has made some changes.
I'd rather have a lot of choices than none. Believe me, when there is NO dev support (that is, a lot of ROMs being release), then you get even MORE whining of "Why isn't there any ROMs/dev support for this?"
Maybe you're not a dev, but I am (not for ROMs but that is my full-time job). Development takes a lot of time. I do it at work and to do it at home as well, especially for something that is free, takes a lot of time and dedication. Especially, ROM development is NOT an easy task. Rebuilding ROMs takes at least 90 minutes or more, depending on the speed of your machine, the size of the source code, etc. Heck, I've pulled down the git for CM12 and it's 12gb in size (source code only, not compiled) and it took hours to download over my high-speed internet connection at home.
I can understand wanting support if you PAID for it, but this is free, people. Free. They don't ask for anything in return monetarily, and yet, we see people demanding support as if they paid for it. You get what you pay for, and in this case, it's free. But I feel the support most devs give is very good, considering it's free. Also, for things like CM, it's usually not just one dev, but several who have responsibilities for different parts of the Android code base. So, just because one guy posts about it, doesn't mean he's the only dev on it. He might be sending your findings back to the other devs.
Also, you DON'T have to flash these custom ROMs. They all have disclaimers that the dev is not responsible for any damages that may occur to your phone. They don't guarantee support, but it's there for you to use. However, who is to say they aren't monitoring the forums? Just because they don't respond, doesn't mean they aren't looking into the issues you report.
Yes, I understand how you want a response from them, but in the end, it is your choice whether you want to flash or not. They didn't twist your arm to do it.
Keep posting your defects. Most devs, the good ones, do monitor the forums and take note of the issues. However, they know about other major issues that they are probably trying to work on. Again, for most, it is done in their spare time.
I myself would like to build and release ROMs, but right now, I don't have the time. it's not just "make a change, compile, release". There is a lot of researching, debugging, etc that must go on. Those that are programmers understand this. And, once you fix a bug, you don't just go and release it (under normal circumstances). You have to go through a complete testing cycle, retesting previous tests along with any new tests to ensure you didn't break something else. It's not that simple.
However, with these free releases, WE are the testers. WE are the ones that report back the issues so they can be addressed. Post them here, or even some devs have Twitter pages where you can post defects. Not all, but some.
In the end, be thankful you have so many choices. Yes, it may seem as if they are all the same, and in some cases they are and some are from people who just want to say "look I released a ROM" and then you never hear from them again. But, in the case of XDA, to post about a ROM in the dev forum, I believe you have to be an identified developer, so they do have to go through some vetting process. So, more than likely, they are legit developers, not a fly-by-night person.
Just wanted to get that off my chest. I understand what people feel, but you have to understand, this is not an easy thing to do. Maybe a lot of you understand that, but I find that a lot don't. Or, they say they understand, when they really don't. They just "think" they understand.
Wow. Off the soapbox. It just burns me as a developer when I see things like this. Yes, I understand where you are coming from, but sometimes, I think you need to hear it from the other side as well.
Ciao!
If you're a good parent, when you bring a child into this world, you raise it, and nurture it... creating it is not enough...
noun
1.
the act or process of developing; growth; progress:
iBolski said:
The same person is not releasing 20 different versions. Also, most are all based off of the AOSP core source, but each dev might add their own touch/flare to it. But, since each one is based off of AOSP, then more than likely, they will all have the same issues, unless the dev has made some changes.
I'd rather have a lot of choices than none. Believe me, when there is NO dev support (that is, a lot of ROMs being release), then you get even MORE whining of "Why isn't there any ROMs/dev support for this?"
Maybe you're not a dev, but I am (not for ROMs but that is my full-time job). Development takes a lot of time. I do it at work and to do it at home as well, especially for something that is free, takes a lot of time and dedication. Especially, ROM development is NOT an easy task. Rebuilding ROMs takes at least 90 minutes or more, depending on the speed of your machine, the size of the source code, etc. Heck, I've pulled down the git for CM12 and it's 12gb in size (source code only, not compiled) and it took hours to download over my high-speed internet connection at home.
I can understand wanting support if you PAID for it, but this is free, people. Free. They don't ask for anything in return monetarily, and yet, we see people demanding support as if they paid for it. You get what you pay for, and in this case, it's free. But I feel the support most devs give is very good, considering it's free. Also, for things like CM, it's usually not just one dev, but several who have responsibilities for different parts of the Android code base. So, just because one guy posts about it, doesn't mean he's the only dev on it. He might be sending your findings back to the other devs.
Also, you DON'T have to flash these custom ROMs. They all have disclaimers that the dev is not responsible for any damages that may occur to your phone. They don't guarantee support, but it's there for you to use. However, who is to say they aren't monitoring the forums? Just because they don't respond, doesn't mean they aren't looking into the issues you report.
Yes, I understand how you want a response from them, but in the end, it is your choice whether you want to flash or not. They didn't twist your arm to do it.
Keep posting your defects. Most devs, the good ones, do monitor the forums and take note of the issues. However, they know about other major issues that they are probably trying to work on. Again, for most, it is done in their spare time.
I myself would like to build and release ROMs, but right now, I don't have the time. it's not just "make a change, compile, release". There is a lot of researching, debugging, etc that must go on. Those that are programmers understand this. And, once you fix a bug, you don't just go and release it (under normal circumstances). You have to go through a complete testing cycle, retesting previous tests along with any new tests to ensure you didn't break something else. It's not that simple.
However, with these free releases, WE are the testers. WE are the ones that report back the issues so they can be addressed. Post them here, or even some devs have Twitter pages where you can post defects. Not all, but some.
In the end, be thankful you have so many choices. Yes, it may seem as if they are all the same, and in some cases they are and some are from people who just want to say "look I released a ROM" and then you never hear from them again. But, in the case of XDA, to post about a ROM in the dev forum, I believe you have to be an identified developer, so they do have to go through some vetting process. So, more than likely, they are legit developers, not a fly-by-night person.
Just wanted to get that off my chest. I understand what people feel, but you have to understand, this is not an easy thing to do. Maybe a lot of you understand that, but I find that a lot don't. Or, they say they understand, when they really don't. They just "think" they understand.
Wow. Off the soapbox. It just burns me as a developer when I see things like this. Yes, I understand where you are coming from, but sometimes, I think you need to hear it from the other side as well.
Ciao!
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Thank you.. Just to correct you though.. There ARE the same persons that are putting out 20 different versions (1 developer. releasing 20 different roms.) That was just the point i was making..
I do personally research before i ever flash a rom or anything..and trust me i donate!! LOL
Kris Nelson said:
Thank you.. Just to correct you though.. There ARE the same persons that are putting out 20 different versions (1 developer. releasing 20 different roms.) That was just the point i was making..
I do personally research before i ever flash a rom or anything..and trust me i donate!! LOL
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I see who you are talking about. If you read the OP, at the bottom, he gives thanks to the devs on these ROMs. I don't think he's a developer at all. At least, his profile doesn't say so. I think he just finds all these ROMs and posts links to them. I could be wrong, and I apologize if I am if that person is reading this thread, but I don't see where the OP of the 5+ ROM threads is the actual developer for them. It's almost like he does the "announcing" for the devs of those ROMs.
And since it does appear that you do not have to be a developer to post in the standard DEV forum, then that makes even more sense.
I do know that in another forum I frequented a lot, you were given developer status and only developers could create new threads in the DEV/ROM forum. That was to prevent a lot of "spam" postings of ROMs.
Makes me wonder if that's what is happening here.
iBolski said:
I see who you are talking about. If you read the OP, at the bottom, he gives thanks to the devs on these ROMs. I don't think he's a developer at all. At least, his profile doesn't say so. I think he just finds all these ROMs and posts links to them. I could be wrong, and I apologize if I am if that person is reading this thread, but I don't see where the OP of the 5+ ROM threads is the actual developer for them. It's almost like he does the "announcing" for the devs of those ROMs.
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I wish you were correct but nope, he is the builder and maintainer. Trust me many more than 5+ when you include other carriers as well.. But not just the one, others have started as well... It's very frustrating that after 1 week, several messages of a very specific problem (not mine just someone i was helping) on different sites where they are posted.. I have to track down someone that i know can help but has NOTHING to do with any of these roms...and gets zippy cash.. Though he should..lol
Anyway, i truly value great developers and have learned who to support and who not to. I like to help people so the developers can build awesome stuff and its my way of keeping the simple crap of your plate so you can do just that..but when i can't even find the answer, the developer should be available.
Just saw your edit.. Yes i think that is happening too. I was always under the assumption that builders/maintainers did so for the actual devise and carriers they use.. I guess that's no longer the case.
Oadam11 is a builder of various roms for our G3's from source repositories available for anyone to build from, and anyone to commit to. He may or may not be doing any commits/merge requests - and even if he did those contributions might not be accepted into the various G3 forks.
In any case, he might not be in a position to contribute to feature requests or bug fixes. He might not be running his own builds of all these roms, past checking to see if they will boot and more or less work.
Say Team Vanir does a fork of their work for the G3, an official one. Ok, then you would ask for support from members of Team Vanir, sure, though you might not get much, depending on a lot of factors (including your attitude...) Then consider the possibility that someone just builds something like Commotio from publicly available sources, with just enough tweaks from somewhere to get it to compile and run, unofficially, on one or more G3 variants. I suspect that is where oadam11 is coming from. He doesn't create the roms, he builds them for G3's. He watches the repositories for each rom he has built for us, and when he sees that rom's devs have checked in and merged useful updates, then he rebuilds for us when he has time. Builds take a while. Then he makes them available for us users to download and install them, after some degree of testing.
The point is that he is in no way responsible for supporting the builds he produces of these team's work. It would be impossible for him to anyway. I am sure he gets permission and some degree of cooperation from any team project he builds from, but he is NOT a team member, or major contributor, for all of them. He is a noble builder and distributor, and you should expect nothing more from him than What he is already providing.
If you want to get a problem or new feature dealt with on any given rom, you must deal with the team's source contributers by raising issues on their gerrit or maybe working on an outstanding and team-prioritized bug as a contributor.
Sent from my VS985 4G using Tapatalk
Thank you..you actually confirmed the point I was making. However, is the average person going to know all this? Of course not...should they do their research prior, of course but they don't... I see good teams being hurt by this as well.. Vanir just had an issue the other day.. Something is being lost in translation and by no means was i only referring to Adam.
I understand. It is interesting that in G+ just a little why ago someone asked David Kessler of Team Vanir who was their maintainer of the G3 Vanir and he replied that they don't have one.
There was also discussion about someone providing support, like answering questions. The idea of supporting a clueless user who had tried to flash TouchWiz onto a Vanir device, by beating the user over the head with an iPhone6+ was suggested. The devs have no patience with such users, generally.
That said, Holy Angel seems exceptional.
Sent from my VS985 4G using Tapatalk
The problem I have, is that when a person POSTS a Rom, and are the OP, they need to support what they post, and help the people posting questions in the thread, or BOW OUT!!! There are people posting and dumping... DONT Post a ROM if you're not willing or able to help the team you are Posting links to... Dont post it and then say "Any problems, contact THEM"
THAT PERSON mentioned, has a lot of them, all as OP, none supported other than.."New build up"
Raising the age limit for COPPA
The amount of entitlement exhibited in this thread is phenomenal. Yes, by all means don't use a build if the developer (who has actually done some REAL WORK) won't support you to your liking.
That will really teach those mean developers a lesson.
Don't forget to complain about the slow speeds of free downloads as well.
It's also a good idea to stop using a build if the developer won't add features you want, and soon, too.
DeanGibson said:
The amount of entitlement exhibited in this thread is phenomenal. Yes, by all means don't use a build if the developer (who has actually done some REAL WORK) won't support you to his/her liking.
That will really teach those mean developers a lesson.
Don't forget to complain about the slow speeds of free downloads as well.
It's also a good idea to stop using a build if the developer won't add features you want, and soon, too.
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Just because you want a feature, doesn't mean it's a good feature to add. If you did that, you would end up with something that could eventually become impossible to maintain.
There are SO many bugs right now in the AOSP code that these devs are trying to fix to make it work on this phone. I would rather those get fixed first.
And, do you think you are the only one to ask for features?
I'm a developer, not for android, but I write code for a living. And what you are asking for is what we call "scope creep". We have to weed out the "must haves" with the "wants". Must haves are the things that they user must have in order to perform their job. This is usually adding functionality that isn't there currently that is needed to complete their job. The "wants" are "I would like to have the ability to clear out all background apps with a single button or swipe". That is NOT needed on this phone, but it's a nice "to have" option, but it doesn't affect the overall performance of the OS itself. Yes, you might say it does because you can clear out the background apps, but in reality, those apps are NOT running. I don't want to get into the specifics of android app management, but those apps you see in the "recent apps" history are NOT running. They are suspended and not taking up ANY CPU cycles, what-so-ever. If they happen to be, then it's a poorly written app, and it means the dev knowingly circumvented the Android OS app management process which is a big no-no. In that case, you should go back to the dev of the app and demand they fix that.
But, you are free not to install the ROM. That's fine and that's your choice, but it just irks me when I see people make complaints like this who probably have no idea what the software development life cycle is all about. To me, fixing bugs right now is the main issue, not adding pretty enhancements to the OS.
And who's to say they aren't working on what you ask, especially if you ask for fixes to major issues (such as battery life, radio, etc)?
Remember, these are UNOFFICIAL releases. They are based off of AOSP source which is pretty much device-agnostic except when it comes to Nexus devices since those are Google devices and therefore, the AOSP source is built for those type of devices.
Android is completely different from iOS. iOS is built for a set of hardware that doesn't have much variance like Android does. Hence, that is why Apple controls both the software AND the hardware of iPhones. It means less fragmentation across devices, but it also means, they decide what is best and you have no way of getting the source.
Google releases the source for Android so you CAN have these custom ROMs built. But, because one Android device has a different hardware configuration from another (CPU and GPU's being the biggest ones), then anything that can take advantage of the hardware architecture for a particular phone means having to change the AOSP source to use any of those "advantages" from that hardware. Which then means, that source no longer works on other phones, only for the phone they modified it for.
So, give the devs some slack, please. They are working hard on it and it's not one dev. If it were, then give the guy even MORE slack. The source for Android is over 12gb along. That is where it's not even compiled. And, compiling the android source generally takes about 90 minutes. So, each "fix" they do requires recompiling (90 minutes) and then testing.
Then, more than likely, the "fix" either didn't work or it possibly broke something else. That means, going back, determining the issue, fixing it, recompiling (wait another 90 minutes) and test again.
That all takes time, people. We developers are NOT magicians, even though it might seem like it.
So, try to imagine trying to fix all the big bugs that you know about, then have to come here, read through ALL the posts and then log those requests down, prioritize them based on all the other work you have, make those changes, recompile, test, etc. It's not a easy and it gets frustrating. But believe me, when we do fix an issue or are able to give the users what they want, we get an extreme amount of satisfaction knowing that we were able to satisfy the "customer".
So please, be careful what you state about devs. Those that do read here usually have thick skins, but complain enough, and they might just quit and then you have nothing.
I understand where people are coming from, but you've been blaming the devs when it's not their fault. Again, the android source is huge and it takes more than one person to work on it. Especially if they are responsible for more than one device. Some devs are working on source for more than just this phone. So, add that to what I already stated and hopefully, you can begin to understand what the devs are going through.