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What's up guys
I'm considering getting an Atrix when it eventually hits Europe, but people always talk about Motorola's locked bootloader. What does that actually mean? Does it mean custom ROMs are impossible? I love the look of this phone but I'd like to be able to modify it if I can't live with the supposedly-awful Motoblur.
Thanks for reading,
jennan
jennan88 said:
What's up guys
I'm considering getting an Atrix when it eventually hits Europe, but people always talk about Motorola's locked bootloader. What does that actually mean? Does it mean custom ROMs are impossible? I love the look of this phone but I'd like to be able to modify it if I can't live with the supposedly-awful Motoblur.
Thanks for reading,
jennan
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
please search forums before starting new topics
this question and discussion is in almost every topic under atrix in all categories and is cluttering up badly
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=957461
But this thread is straight forward and good for noobs.
Sent from my MSM using XDA App
IN SHORT.
It pretty much means you can't change the KERNEL .. which means you're limited to customization to the phone. (e.g. No cyanogenmod, No MIUI, no community upgrades to gingerbread or honeycomb etc., no custom ditbits that only a kernel can provide).
/end.
darkamikaze said:
IN SHORT.
It pretty much means you can't change the KERNEL .. which means you're limited to customization to the phone. (e.g. No cyanogenmod, No MIUI, no community upgrades to gingerbread or honeycomb etc., no custom ditbits that only a kernel can provide).
/end.
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Locked you can, encrypted you can't. All phones come locked bootloader. So we are praying that its locked and not encryped although it will likely be encrypted
Sent from my MSM using XDA App
Why would they do this?
Surely they know most users will want this feature... Once they save sold it, what it is to them..?
Maybe I'm missing something here?
EDIT: Posted this on the wrong thread. Please delete.
BoogWeed said:
Why would they do this?
Surely they know most users will want this feature... Once they save sold it, what it is to them..?
Maybe I'm missing something here?
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Wrong. Few users even know about locked/encrypted bootloaders. We are a very small minority who cares about this issue.
One thing you'll note if you look around the forums are people still using older model phones like the 8525 which have lost support from the manufacturer a long time ago. Keeping legacy hardware current is costly to manufacturers due to development costs and from competitors releasing newer model phones. Look at what happened to Motorola when they clung to the Razr. They have to keep up with the others. Every sale lost is a potential profit gain for the competition. So they always have a "newer/better model" right around the corner. Keeping their boot loaders encrypted is an attempt at forcing the user to upgrade by limiting the amount of development required to keep the phone current. Even though we are a minority, we are still viewed as lost profit if we are still staying attached to our old phones when newer models are released.
The locked bootloader troubles the devs were/are facing and the sideloading of apps and eventually roms, is this unique to the nook family as far as it only occuring with the tablet? Did the color have these same barriers in the beginning? And, are any of the colors groundbreakers onboard with the tablet now?
Sent from my PG06100 using xda premium
The nook color doesn't have a locked bootloader.
i think some color devs are? but having the bootloader unlocked =
I wasn't sure. I know the purpose of the locked bootloader, and that numerous devices have had this. In the case of these other devices, have the bootloaders been unlocked, bypassed, replaced, or rewritten?
Sent from my PG06100 using xda premium
jsp254 said:
I wasn't sure. I know the purpose of the locked bootloader, and that numerous devices have had this. In the case of these other devices, have the bootloaders been unlocked, bypassed, replaced, or rewritten?
Sent from my PG06100 using xda premium
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The nook tablet is a fairly unique situation. Plenty of bootloaders are locked but the nt is locked and signed or something to that effect. From my understanding, the devs were able to find a security flaw that allowed them to bypass the security check entirely and then make necessary modifications to allow for custom roms. I believe a similar method wasbused on a samsung device and this is where the idea was derived from.
As for other devices, my xoom was locked but Motorola made it so you cannot unlock it in fastboot. My photon needed to be hacked, but doing so breaks 4g. I think the droid x still has a locked bootloader but they managed to find a way to flash roms. The new transformer prime is locked down pretty hard; 128 bit encryption. Luckily asus has promised to deliver a method to unlock it. Well see if they deliver.
So yeah, kinda a case by case thing. The nt was probably one of the harder ones though.
and this is why i come here! LOL. in the space of 3 short paragraphs, i have a better understanding of bootloaders and how it applies to us and the NT. thanks guys!
For further reading, reddit has a nice write up on bootloaders. Also the r/android subreddit is awesome, very active and very helpful.
The r/nook subreddit is decent, I try to help as much as I can there
The signed bootloader is now irrelevant because several flaws were found in the chain of commands when checking for a secure boot. Many manufacturers are trying to make the software unhackable because they want to control where you purchase additional software from.
Apple products are exclusive, and if you want to compete with them but are incapable of developing your own software like palm or blackberry, you have to turn to google and their android package. The problem with this is that Android is open source and they are required to release their software to the public. All android devices are programmed with the same language and can be stripped down and reinstalled to basic android software. This means that any hardware, released with android, can be hacked and unlocked to use the basic android market. "Resistance is futile."- borg
Albert-
I've been reading through several of the dev threads having to do with 'Cracked bootloader' and am a little confused...ok, a lot confused. There seems to be 2 different methods of attack to bypass the signed bootloader. I believe AdamOutler's method involves installing a modchip in the NT (I would think most nt users would not be willing to do that) and it sounds like you are saying there is another way/simpler way to sneak around the signed bootloader without hardwiring a chip. Am I wrong? Will we really have to install a 'modchip'?
nb1201 said:
Albert-
I've been reading through several of the dev threads having to do with 'Cracked bootloader' and am a little confused...ok, a lot confused. There seems to be 2 different methods of attack to bypass the signed bootloader. I believe AdamOutler's method involves installing a modchip in the NT (I would think most nt users would not be willing to do that) and it sounds like you are saying there is another way/simpler way to sneak around the signed bootloader without hardwiring a chip. Am I wrong? Will we really have to install a 'modchip'?
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From my understanding, the two methods were conceived very close together time wise. The hardware mod way was first, but shortly after they found some security flaws that allowed them to bypass the bootloader security check and make modifications to it from there.
Hi guys im planning to buy this phone, but does it has an unlocked bootloader? How good is developer support for this cellphone?
the bootloader is locked and with that you cannot load a fully working custom kernel thus there are not many dev involved.
Hope something improves in future...
Until then I statisfy my rom flashing sickness with my HD2
Would you recommend me buying this phone ? Or an xperia play?
arturodelac said:
Would you recommend me buying this phone ? Or an xperia play?
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I would buy this. The Xperia play was not tat great in my opinion.
arturodelac said:
Would you recommend me buying this phone ? Or an xperia play?
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I recommend you the razr. Its a good phone overall especially the build quality.
No match with the play unless you are a heavy gamer.
I think you will find a positive answer for either device within its own forum.
So grain of salt aside, I like the Razr, but from a slightly technical person that likes to experiment with things, It was fun to flash a couple ROM's when I first got it and settled on one. After finding Eclipse thats what I've stuck to permanently. Its fast, its compact, and most importantly everything just works out of the box. So really, no more fun experimenting...
If you want to take your chances on some ICS leak that you may never be able to flash from in the future, or an ICS build over the old kernal with things not working or some things kinda working. I dunno... "fun"?
With no unlocked BL its seems that the development for this phone is somewhat castrated. Don't get me wrong, out of the many phones I tried, this one was the nicest as far as speed, screen, and touch/feel. Phone-wise anyway its the better. Development... not so much. We are all in here keeping our fingers crossed for one of two things... 1) Kholk gets his BL bypass working to where someone actually wants to develop for it but outlook not-so-good on that one, or 2) Motorola actually keeps their word for once and eventually gives us a BL unlock. (again "outlook not-so-good")
I just wish there were more fun things to do with our Razr like there are for other phones, Xperia Play included since you can unlock the BL with that, and just glancing in the development section of their forum can attest to that.
All that aside, as a Razr owner, I can recommend it as a very nice, advanced featured, smartphone that does everything I could ever dream of. heh
Of course we can use custom kernels. Just a short time remaining until the new kernel source will be released, then kexec will work with both cores and fully working custom roms will become available.
Shinare said:
I think you will find a positive answer for either device within its own forum.
So grain of salt aside, I like the Razr, but from a slightly technical person that likes to experiment with things, It was fun to flash a couple ROM's when I first got it and settled on one. After finding Eclipse thats what I've stuck to permanently. Its fast, its compact, and most importantly everything just works out of the box. So really, no more fun experimenting...
If you want to take your chances on some ICS leak that you may never be able to flash from in the future, or an ICS build over the old kernal with things not working or some things kinda working. I dunno... "fun"?
With no unlocked BL its seems that the development for this phone is somewhat castrated. Don't get me wrong, out of the many phones I tried, this one was the nicest as far as speed, screen, and touch/feel. Phone-wise anyway its the better. Development... not so much. We are all in here keeping our fingers crossed for one of two things... 1) Kholk gets his BL bypass working to where someone actually wants to develop for it but outlook not-so-good on that one, or 2) Motorola actually keeps their word for once and eventually gives us a BL unlock. (again "outlook not-so-good")
I just wish there were more fun things to do with our Razr like there are for other phones, Xperia Play included since you can unlock the BL with that, and just glancing in the development section of their forum can attest to that.
All that aside, as a Razr owner, I can recommend it as a very nice, advanced featured, smartphone that does everything I could ever dream of. heh
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Click to collapse
Kholk is apparently waiting for th 3.0.8 source from motorola in order to get the second cpu working
Sent from my MZ601 using XDA Premium HD app
Hi, Xperia people. You probably don't know me, but in the future I might be getting an Xperia U, and looking forward to it!
I couldn't find a XPU Q&A sub-forum, so I decided to post here. You're probably wondering why won't I get an Xperia S, or P? That's because my dad said I could pick a phone, up to £200, and he might get it for me, as a present for getting good grades.
Reading my own post, I probably sound like some stupid trolling, spamming kid who doesn't know a thing about Android, or programming, etc...
Well, I previously owned a HTC Wildfire S, until it got stolen. I do know about bootloader unlocking, rooting, fastboot, specs (CPU, RAM, etc.), Linux, Bootloaders, prgramming (I don't know any programming languages, but I know a bit about them, and I only know the tiniest bit of Java in the world that won't help anyone). I like making ROMS, and flashing them.
So I just wanted to know some basic stuff about the XPU. For example, as soon as I get it, play around with it for a bit, then should I unlock the bootloader, and start flashing some new ROMS (like ICS and stuff), or do I need to do some stuff before that. I want to try lots of ROMS (and I want to make one too. I made a stock like basic HTC ROM once.) I also want to know how to boot into the bootloader, and stuff. I know this all probably has been asked before, but if I get a good enough amount of answers, I might consider transforming the thread into a Noob Guide.
If you own an XPU, can you post links to some good ROMS, ICS, stuff like that. Thanks!!!!
My missus has an Xperia U and it's a fine phone. For the <£200 price, it's unbeatable IMHO. Sure there are compromises, but they are in the right areas, not the wrong ones. Sony got it perfect for that price.:good:
I probably won't be getting it now. I've done more research, and there's a lack of development, so I don't think I want to get it.
get it now!
AndroidM0d said:
get it now!
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Indeed, you don't get alot for a £200 budget, certainly not ICS update, dual core, unlockable bootloader and the U's build quality....
Bad-Wolf said:
I probably won't be getting it now. I've done more research, and there's a lack of development, so I don't think I want to get it.
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Click to collapse
there is lack of development indeed, but only because xperia U is using a relatively new chipset. once the devs gotten familiar with it I think development will roll in nicely
Actually I've got my XPU for about 3 weeks, it worked fine for me and no problem was faced.
I'm proud that I can get a such brilliant smartphone with a very reasonable price and the chance for eating ICS:laugh:
Yeah, well it is a good phone. But I can't take my chances and waste money. Even if there is more development, it might not be that much. DoomLord said himself that he might not do any development for XPU as he's already busy with the other XPs and he can barely keep up doing that. Believe me, I'd like to make ROMS myself (I made one for personal use, then distributed it), but I don't think I can just buy a phone to do that, and there aren't many development resources to do that. Also, this sub-forum is kind of "claustrophobic" because it's most of the XP devices together, and it's kinda messy, for me. Sorry guys, I'd like to become part of your community, but I don't think I can. I might just get a Desire HD, if I can, because I know a lot about HTC devices, it's got S-OFF, and plenty of development. It's already got ICS (was in the second page of Portal).
Anyway, thanks for the encouragement.
Hey people, how are you?
I was wondering out of nowhere: wait a minute, is this Rom legal?, replacing an Official Rom from the Provider for an Unofficial one that required Unlocking the Bootloader/Rooting the Phone/Flash the Rom is the same as saying that the Phone Protection was broken and it was an Hacking thing, and for making the Rom maybe there was some softwares that were illegally made or stolen from Official Android Version or stolen from Google or from someone.
So with this said, what do you think people? Having a Custom Rom on the Phone, is this Illegal?.
Please don't answer things like: you only void warranty.
Good answers i will give a 'Thanks' button press.
Cheers :good:
Crazy Seed said:
Hey people, how are you?
I was wondering out of nowhere: wait a minute, is this Rom legal?, replacing an Official Rom from the Provider for an Unofficial one that required Unlocking the Bootloader/Rooting the Phone/Flash the Rom is the same as saying that the Phone Protection was broken and it was an Hacking thing, and for making the Rom maybe there was some softwares that were illegally made or stolen from Official Android Version or stolen from Google or from someone.
So with this said, what do you think people? Having a Custom Rom on the Phone, is this Illegal?.
Please don't answer things like: you only void warranty.
Good answers i will give a 'Thanks' button press.
Cheers :good:
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Click to collapse
Android is open source and royalty free software, so anyone is allowed to 'fork' it and do their own thing with it, so that is not illegal, and does not involve stealing or anything else. Amazon uses it on their Kindle Fire in a heavily modified form and MIUI (which just made custom ROMS at first) now also makes phones with their version installed as standard.
The rules on XDA are very strict when it comes to using other people's work without permission and if a ROM contains software which should be paid for or is used without permission that ROM will be removed.
The protection the manufacturers build into their phone is to insure their phones operate the same for everyone and so they can guarantee they can fix it when there is a problem with it.
Apple used to claim that 'jailbreaking' the Iphone was illegal according to their terms and conditions, but a Judge in the United States ruled that when a user buys a device, the user owns it and is allowed to do with that device whatever he wants, essentially meaning that jailbreaking (getting around the phone's factory installed protection mechanisms) is legal.
However, the manufacturer cannot be held responsible if a user does something with that device that the manufacturer did not intend.
That is why you void your warranty when you get around the inbuilt protections.
So, in short: Not illegal in any way, but it is at your own risk and for your own responsibility.
So does that mean that also The GB roms for this phone have legal apk's in it? Confused because of the apk's like: Latinime.apk 'keyboard from xperia x10 mini pro original, i don't know if that is considered stolen from original Firmware' and Gapps 'there are option to flash gapps, and somewhere it says that gapps are illegal on roms unless there is permission.
So breaking the phone protection is not considered a hacking thing right?.
There are country's where unlocking phones are obligatory on the store without charging more from it, so i guess that phones should always be unlocked everywhere, but if someone unlocks a phone not in a store is it legal? Well apparently it is.
That's why i asked also on another thread about the original android that came with the phone, because if the phone went to repair they could know that it was my fault since the firmware isn't the original that came with the phone, or am i wrong?.
So, in short: We're all on our own risk and responsibility, and nothing's illegal unless there was a paid apk on the rom.
Thanks for your answer here and on the other thread mate Cheers :good:
Crazy Seed said:
somewhere it says that gapps are illegal on roms unless there is permission.
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As far as I understand it, Gapps can't be distributed with a custom ROM, e.g. bundled with it. It's a licensing issue. That doesn't make using them illegal, you just need to flash them separately.
However, the whole thing about what's legal and what's not can sometimes take some bizarre turns that defy logic... For example, take the recent decision of the US Library of Congress to make a cellphone unlocking a violation of the DMCA, and therefore, illegal. First off, the DMCA itself is a bull$h!t, if you ask me, but that's just my opinion. But what the hell does the Library of Congress have to do with it? What kind of authority they have over the matter, anyway? Well, the real lawmakers passed the bill that actually allows the unlocking, so common sense prevails this time, but you never know...
kt-Froggy said:
As far as I understand it, Gapps can't be distributed with a custom ROM, e.g. bundled with it. It's a licensing issue. That doesn't make using them illegal, you just need to flash them separately.
However, the whole thing about what's legal and what's not can sometimes take some bizarre turns that defy logic... For example, take the recent decision of the US Library of Congress to make a cellphone unlocking a violation of the DMCA, and therefore, illegal. First off, the DMCA itself is a bull$h!t, if you ask me, but that's just my opinion. But what the hell does the Library of Congress have to do with it? What kind of authority they have over the matter, anyway? Well, the real lawmakers passed the bill that actually allows the unlocking, so common sense prevails this time, but you never know...
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Click to collapse
I think there were some roms with the gapps inside, but without them bundled it's all legal then .
Luckily i unlocked my phone on the store so i don't have problems with these stuff, i was more concerned about if the roms use Illegal software in it, gapps you tell me now that it isn't legal if we flash them separately, so i guess that what remains on my question is if the keyboard LatinIme.apk is legal since it seems to be like the original used on the Stock Android version that came with the phone, i don't know if there's any other software that i can ask if it's legal or not. In logic, Rooting and flashing would be illegal because it's like 'Hacking', but in the Law and stuff if it's legal then it's ok by me.
Thanks
Cheers :good:
Crazy Seed said:
I think there were some roms with the gapps inside, but without them bundled it's all legal then .
Luckily i unlocked my phone on the store so i don't have problems with these stuff, i was more concerned about if the roms use Illegal software in it, gapps you tell me now that it isn't legal if we flash them separately, so i guess that what remains on my question is if the keyboard LatinIme.apk is legal since it seems to be like the original used on the Stock Android version that came with the phone, i don't know if there's any other software that i can ask if it's legal or not. In logic, Rooting and flashing would be illegal because it's like 'Hacking', but in the Law and stuff if it's legal then it's ok by me.
Thanks
Cheers :good:
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I think the LatinIME is the google keyboard, the one that came with the phone was the suqashiinput.apk, and I don't think Sony is too concerned if you use the programs that came with the phone on that same phone.
Sony would be in it's right to take down any ROMS that infringe on it's copyrights, but they don't, they have even taken steps to make it easier to use custom roms on their phones, so I don't think you need to worry about that.
SmG67 said:
I think the LatinIME is the google keyboard, the one that came with the phone was the suqashiinput.apk, and I don't think Sony is too concerned if you use the programs that came with the phone on that same phone.
Sony would be in it's right to take down any ROMS that infringe on it's copyrights, but they don't, they have even taken steps to make it easier to use custom roms on their phones, so I don't think you need to worry about that.
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Lol you're right i switched the name of the keyboards xD, but none of them is illegal apparently
So with all of this said, custom roms doesn't mean 'hacking' and therefore not illegal, right? I think my question is fully answered now then, thanks mate
Cheers :good:
let me jump in and share my thoughts. hacking has 2 categories (i think), developmental and the other one i call destructive (i dont need to explain the difference, do i?) like previously stated, any licensed and paid apk if bundled with the rom is illegal including the gapps. thats why gapps is flash seperately (see the bold thing is what makes the difference). i dont know about manufacturers allowing their default apks to be used and distributed by cookers but maybe they see its a good thing rather than being pestered by consumers about having an upgrade of the old phones. i have an htc and xperia and both offers bootloader unlocking feature/tutorials, which i think they know why we are unlocking it. they are aware and support it. maybe they are looking for apks that could help their brand soar. who knows, when you develop one and they buy them.
:laugh:
demoniacs said:
let me jump in and share my thoughts. hacking has 2 categories (i think), developmental and the other one i call destructive (i dont need to explain the difference, do i?) like previously stated, any licensed and paid apk if bundled with the rom is illegal including the gapps. thats why gapps is flash seperately (see the bold thing is what makes the difference). i dont know about manufacturers allowing their default apks to be used and distributed by cookers but maybe they see its a good thing rather than being pestered by consumers about having an upgrade of the old phones. i have an htc and xperia and both offers bootloader unlocking feature/tutorials, which i think they know why we are unlocking it. they are aware and support it. maybe they are looking for apks that could help their brand soar. who knows, when you develop one and they buy them.
:laugh:
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Be my guest then xD. As long as the Hacking type isn't the Bad One/Illegal One then that's fine xD.
I don't know about that one either, because it's true that the keyboard apk came with the phone, but that keyboard is being used in a 'Unofficial' Android Version not created by them but yes by someone else, i don't know if they allow it like that even if it is for the same phone.
Yes in reality they know everything we do, and everyone knows about hacking and cracking but No One does a damn thing about it xD.
I think Sony should buy Android 2.3 from this website and perfect it for our phone, but i don't see that happening xD, i would say Android 4+ but it's too much for this phone xD.
:laugh:
Crazy Seed said:
Be my guest then xD. As long as the Hacking type isn't the Bad One/Illegal One then that's fine xD.
I don't know about that one either, because it's true that the keyboard apk came with the phone, but that keyboard is being used in a 'Unofficial' Android Version not created by them but yes by someone else, i don't know if they allow it like that even if it is for the same phone.
Yes in reality they know everything we do, and everyone knows about hacking and cracking but No One does a damn thing about it xD.
I think Sony should buy Android 2.3 from this website and perfect it for our phone, but i don't see that happening xD, i would say Android 4+ but it's too much for this phone xD.
:laugh:
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In the end, Sony would rather sell us a new phone, but they (or anyone else for that matter) don't make phones like ours anymore.
But I think, with the work Google has put into KitKat, it should run better on our phones then ICS or JellyBean, so it's kind of a shame we don't have developers capable of porting it anymore.
That said, I still think it's very cool we've got Jellybean ROMS that run ok, and I'm very grateful for all the effort that has gone into development in that respect, even if it's not as fast as Gingerbread ROMS or even the original firrmware.
Let's just finish by this: If it was all illegal, then XDA wouldn't exist anymore, it would have been litigated out of existence by any of the big phone-manufacturers or phone-operating-systems-producers.
SmG67 said:
In the end, Sony would rather sell us a new phone, but they (or anyone else for that matter) don't make phones like ours anymore.
But I think, with the work Google has put into KitKat, it should run better on our phones then ICS or JellyBean, so it's kind of a shame we don't have developers capable of porting it anymore.
That said, I still think it's very cool we've got Jellybean ROMS that run ok, and I'm very grateful for all the effort that has gone into development in that respect, even if it's not as fast as Gingerbread ROMS or even the original firrmware.
Let's just finish by this: If it was all illegal, then XDA wouldn't exist anymore, it would have been litigated out of existence by any of the big phone-manufacturers or phone-operating-systems-producers.
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Click to collapse
Or we could always buy Xperia Mini Pro 'difference is not very big beetween them', but it's a little expensive and the benefits are almost nothing since Xperia Mini Pro x10 has great quality in Music, Image, Video with the only letdown being the Android Version + CPU capacity.
Yes Kit Kat should run better on our phones, but it's also true that right now there's nobody capable of porting it to our phone :S.
Respect and Thanks for the efforts on the ICS Jelly Roms, and call me crazy but i think that if someone could fix some bugs from the ICS version then it could be perfect since almost everything is working, Jellybean is more difficult because of the Audio drivers for Sound quality making it almost impossible.
Yes they could finish this website if they had the rights to do so, apparently there's nothing wrong with custom roms so it's all ok, but it's also true that sometimes even if something is illegal people just close their eyes 'just like in piracy, everyone downloads songs movies etc and nobody does a damn thing about it because they know it's a fight they can't ever win'.
So with all said, everything is apparently legal and ok to go .
No, they're not illegal. Android is an open source community, as long as you conform with legal policies, you will be good to go!