I was just thinking, all that the lapdock is to the phone is an HDMI output and a USB input, so why does it trigger webtop, and could I trigger webtop the same way?
My initial thought is, it triggers it by something sent into the USB, is there any way anyone could identify what in particular so it might be mimicked?
I realize people have come up with software webtop without lapdock solutions, but I'd really rather just leave the software alone (harmless as the change may be..), I rather like it as it is (with launcher pro instead of default that is..)
So, what is the lapdock doing to key the atrix to go into webtop?
I did search for this, sorry if there's already a thread about it, I didn't find one..
Although I am not a hardware person and have limited experience with Linux, I am also interested in the answer to this question. I would have to assume that the Atrix recognizes the connection and sends a command to launch the appropriate software.
Once again...I am not really in any position to contribute much relevant information.
Just to throw out some other ideas that rattled around in my head for someone more familiar with this device...
There is a communication that comes from displays where they identify themselves and their modes for whatever device that connects to them- some pieces of this information could be key.
Beyond that, any particular piece of information the USB device identifies itself with similarly- a model or serial number the internal usb hub claims itself to be to the system, I know these are standard passive details these devices share with anything connecting to them.
In the identification side, I wonder if the files modified by the software webtop hack might lend details about what is precisely telling them to go into webtop..
If it's keyed off of some particular serial number or model information from the USB, I figure I could buy a cheap configurable USB diag board and flash it to mimic that info..
I sincerely doubt there's anything superbly intelligent in the lapdock where it does some non-standard communication as a handshake, I would think it has to be based on the standard passive device information every USB hub or HDMI connection shares..
edit:
Unless there's an extra device on the USB hub internally like a smartcard or flash chip with a key the atrix checks for..
I have webtop enabled without a dock, and webtop pops up when I plug just the HDMI cable in. I imagine it is just detecting the external display, and doesn't have anything to do with USB.
It should not be complicated as you you think. It's rather trigerred by some specific resistor on the pins 4&5 of micro USB connector
jenarelJAM said:
I have webtop enabled without a dock, and webtop pops up when I plug just the HDMI cable in. I imagine it is just detecting the external display, and doesn't have anything to do with USB.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You arent running stock software then. It detects it yes depending on what software you are running but the docks sends a signal to the atrix to turn on webtop on stock.
Not sure that it uses resistors, because when software hack was not available, bunch of people tried to do it with resistors however nobody got it to work. The best way would be to take apart multimedia dock and look at circuitry . Most likely it has a microchip sending some kind of ID. The problem is you need a special device to sniff usb communication between devices. If somebody has a device like that it should not be that hard to sniff it and program separate microchip to send it to usb.
this should have been posted in q&a... not the dev section
jgc121 said:
this should have been posted in q&a... not the dev section
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry, I can never tell the difference, when things are technical and require some development understanding which place to put it. If a mod could move this post I would appreciate it then.
jenarelJAM said:
I have webtop enabled without a dock, and webtop pops up when I plug just the HDMI cable in. I imagine it is just detecting the external display, and doesn't have anything to do with USB.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Its sensing an external diplay. The hdmi cable does a handshake upon connection of the cable. At that point, the software handles what happens. Webtop senses usb as well (like the car dock does), but the hack removes that check. Thats how hdmi triggers webtop.
Sent from my Motorola Atrix 4G on the network with the most backhaul, whatever that is
From a video I saw from Motorola in UK it was a RFID thing......I am looking for the video now
_Dennis_ said:
From a video I saw from Motorola in UK it was a RFID thing......I am looking for the video now
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
About two and a half minutes in to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5vgYiF3Udw.
He is specifically talking about the desk dock there but seems to imply they use "whisper technology" to communicate for all docks.
That's not from Motorola and that guy made that up....
At least that's my take....
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App
Thread moved to correct section.
There's no rfid ... the devs would have figured that out by now. Its most likely just by device id. Same reason the cable shouldn't be plugged into a computer. The device id is not in the standards compliance for usb. (E.g. not flash drove, hard disk, human interface device)
Sent from my Motorola Atrix 4G on the network with the most backhaul, whatever that is. This post might have errors as I hate touchscreen keyboards.
Related
Ok, I just ordered a 32GB USB Flash Drive.
Some people report that the Athena recognizes some flash drives so I was thinking...why not remove the MD and take apart the 32GB flash drive and put it inside the Athena. Then solder the USB pins together internally so the USB drive is always connected internally to the device?
I haven't really put serious thought into this but wanted to run it past everyone and those hardware experts to see what every ways.
I have yet to look up the MD power requirements and compare those to the USB power requirements. Either way, if it's recognized it could mean a real upgrade to the device and we could always write a simple program to enable/disable the USB drive if power consumption is too great.
Your thoughts people on this?
EDIT
After further thinking I see four obvious obstacles:
- Stripping down the 32GB USB drive so it fits in the device in place of the MD. I'm hoping this isn't that big of an issue but then again I have no idea what i'm talking about. LOL
- 1 have to make sure the Athena recognizes the 32GB USB drive.
- Power Consumption as mentioned above, which might be overcome by utilizing a utility of some sort.
- Since the Athena requires the USB Host cable/adapter to make things like this work, there might need to be some type of mod internally to make this happen. I talking to someone with more knowledge of USB pin outs might help in this area.
-- EDIT: Olipro mentioned that this is most likely a non-issue. That the USB adapter just makes the USB connection a large one so the internal wiring I'm thinking about shouldn't be a problem. This is great news. One obstacle out of the way. Don't you love progress!
ltxda said:
Ok, I just ordered a 32GB USB Flash Drive.
Some people report that the Athena recognizes some flash drives so I was thinking...why not remove the MD and take apart the 32GB flash drive and put it inside the Athena. Then solder the USB pins together internally so the USB drive is always connected internally to the device?
I haven't really put serious thought into this but wanted to run it past everyone and those hardware experts to see what every ways.
I have yet to look up the MD power requirements and compare those to the USB power requirements. Either way, if it's recognized it could mean a real upgrade to the device and we could always write a simple program to enable/disable the USB drive if power consumption is too great.
Your thoughts people on this?
EDIT
After further thinking I see four obvious obstacles:
- Stripping down the 32GB USB drive so it fits in the device in place of the MD. I'm hoping this isn't that big of an issue but then again I have no idea what i'm talking about. LOL
- 1 have to make sure the Athena recognizes the 32GB USB drive.
- Power Consumption as mentioned above, which might be overcome by utilizing a utility of some sort.
- Since the Athena requires the USB Host cable/adapter to make things like this work, there might need to be some type of mod internally to make this happen. I talking to someone with more knowledge of USB pin outs might help in this area.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hehe u know im always behind ur crazy ideas. lets get this to work!
possible incompatibilities of it not detecting the microdrive but should be able to be fixed by software
possibly will need to integrate usb host controller chip and wires inside as well
make sure not to screw up the charger either =p
but other than that it sounds good
Hi, for information: Athena Servicemanual says you need 3 things to replace if you disassemble your device (On-Off Key, CommManager Key and some rubbers).
So if you really get the USB-Flash running then you'll get problems putting everything together again.
I think you'll get errors because the G-Sensor doesn't detect any Microdrive. (maybe freeze or reset or some other issues?). Maybe you have to shorten the G-Sensor somehow. This will need people who own the original plan of the device and also know how to get information out of it.
But great idea!
Ok, just found out that the host adapter just changes the plug to a larger USB plug. So the wiring should be a piece of cake. Let's keep this going...before you know it the team won't have only brought you a great ROM but also provide a way to have a 32GB Athena and storage you no longer have to worry about and with no moving parts!!!
PAPPL said:
Hi, for information: Athena Servicemanual says you need 3 things to replace if you disassemble your device (On-Off Key, CommManager Key and some rubbers).
So if you really get the USB-Flash running then you'll get problems putting everything together again.
I think you'll get errors because the G-Sensor doesn't detect any Microdrive. (maybe freeze or reset or some other issues?). Maybe you have to shorten the G-Sensor somehow. This will need people who own the original plan of the device and also know how to get information out of it.
But great idea!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for your feedback. I also think this may work and if not with the drive I've ordered with some other USB. I've seen USB devices as small is a dime so this should work. I'll be happy to purchase a bunch of USB drives to see which work. I probably would like anyone with an Athena and a USB drive to test what they have and post the results.
For the record I ordered a Corsair Survivor 32GB USB Flash Drive model CMFUSBSRVR-32GB.
I think there was a group of people(I couldn't remember who exactly) who already dismantled their athena when it came out to see which micro drives in the market is compatible with the one installed in the athena. I suggest we find the post first before and read through their findings. There might be something there that may help with this project.
If I remember it correctly, there was even a host of pictures and instructions in dismantling the Athena.
I just couldn't remember other details because I was just browsing around and never thought of owning an athena.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=303188
Something I found about USB Drives and the Athena
Wikipedia claims microdrives use more power then flash drives:
"consume more power than flash memory (on the order of 190mA, peak 310mA, at 3.3V) "
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microdrive
Good luck to you this would be cool.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=298987
HDs that work with the athena
What about a 72GB solid state drive?
http://www.engadget.com/2008/01/07/hands-on-with-sandisks-72gb-ssd-and-friends/
eaglesteve said:
What about a 72GB solid state drive?
http://www.engadget.com/2008/01/07/hands-on-with-sandisks-72gb-ssd-and-friends/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Let`s keep this a short term, realistic and affordable goal. ;-p
USB storage is cheap, easily modified, compatible as it`s already recognized by the device both by the software and USB host capabilities of the device board, etc. Also, those drives aren`t yet available and I doubt people will want to spend over $800usd on them for Athena. No?
Well, IMHO there's two alternatives for such a modification:
1 - either use the ATA connection of the micro-drive with the 32 GB pendrive. Adapters exist, wiring should be tricky due to the size requirements (everything has to fit into the space usually used by the micro-drive);
2 - connect permanently the 32 GB USB pen-drive to the USB port. Removal of the micro-drive is in that case optional, maybe in order to make room.
The problem with the second option is that I am pretty sure this will screw-up USB slave connections, and more specifically ActiveSync. Altough, true, one can Sync through Bluetooth.
Two problems with the first alternative:
- G-Sensor, without a md, will no work anymore. BUT it can be disabled in a software manner, so that's no big issue aside from the fact that we won't be able to "tilt'n scroll";
- finding a compatible USB / ATA adapter (those are known to be... "capricious").
I find the first alternative much sexier, personnally... And it DOES get me thinking.
Why not just use one of theose new 16 or 32GB MicroSD/Transflash, or whatever the hell there called cards, just released at CES.. It would save ya
lots of work, and you wouldn't have to crack the Advantage open.
Yep, that's also being discussed on the forum.
But I do agree that having solid-state 32 GB instead of mechanical 8 GB in my Athena would suit me just fine.
Jointly with a 32 GB SDHC card, of course.
:-D lol
I currently have the 8GB SDHC....of course I'm going to buy the 16 and then the 32 as soon as they come out and I can get my hands on it...but my goal here is to replace the MD. After thinking it through even further, we could even setup an internal type of mechanism so as USB drives become larger and cheaper, we could just pop out the old and pop in the new thus continuing to increase the internal storage of our devices.
Maybe I'm just dreaming but replacing the MD seems to be a goal that we can achieve quickly and cost effectively. We've had the discussion of getting larger MD's...but always ran into obstacles we probably couldn't overcome. They are releasing large SSD's but we may have to mod the internal connection, etc. With the USB idea, the connection exists, compatibility is there, and it's very feasible. I'm just excited. LOL
HeartOfDarkness said:
Well, IMHO there's two alternatives for such a modification:
1 - either use the ATA connection of the micro-drive with the 32 GB pendrive. Adapters exist, wiring should be tricky due to the size requirements (everything has to fit into the space usually used by the micro-drive);
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm thinking more simplistic. Take out the MD and dock it connect to. This frees up some space. Strip down USB drive as much as possible and hope that it fits some way into the device. If it fits, we can mount it in there in a number of ways. Solder 4 wires from USB drive to USB host interface on the board. Write some software to control (activate/deactivate aka mount/dismount) the USB drive and see how it goes.
2 - connect permanently the 32 GB USB pen-drive to the USB port. Removal of the micro-drive is in that case optional, maybe in order to make room.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not sure what you mean exactly but...I want the USB drive to be internal. Of course I could get some velcro and stick a 32GB USB drive to the back of my Athena, etc...but that would just be ugly.
You also need the USB host cable to do this unless you want to solder wires and run them from the outside of the device to the inside USB host pins. Let me know if I got the wrong picture here.
The problem with the second option is that I am pretty sure this will screw-up USB slave connections, and more specifically ActiveSync. Altough, true, one can Sync through Bluetooth.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You bring up a very good point. I'm going to have to take my 4-in-1 cable and try to run a small USB drive while trying to ActiveSync. I wonder if that will still work. If it fails, the mod I'm proposing may cause a problem with ActiveSync connections. Anyone else have comments and/or ideas on this?
Two problems with the first alternative:
- G-Sensor, without a md, will no work anymore. BUT it can be disabled in a software manner, so that's no big issue aside from the fact that we won't be able to "tilt'n scroll";
- finding a compatible USB / ATA adapter (those are known to be... "capricious").
I find the first alternative much sexier, personnally... And it DOES get me thinking.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm hoping we can do it without any adapters. Just straight soldering of the 4 USB wires needed to communicate. Should suffice. I found that I don't really use nor need the G-Sensor on the MD. For sure can be disabled in the ROM. The Athena Project team would just have to make a Special Edition ROM for those that do the mod.
I posted a few weeks ago about a SSD that Intel will be releasing soon. I believe it will be a drop-in replacement for the existing drive.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=352834
techntrek said:
I posted a few weeks ago about a SSD that Intel will be releasing soon. I believe it will be a drop-in replacement for the existing drive.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=352834
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I actually read that thread a little while ago. Do you know when it will be released and how fast they will get up to larger drives like 8, 16, 32, etc. GB's?
ia ctually dont think you will run into active sync problems...
reason being i remember a special cable that came with my friends hermes that split the usb port into two
one for charging and one for syncing...
so i think if we disable the flash drive when syncing it should be fine
on another phone especially the galaxy sII? wondering it would on another device.
It has a proprietary connector so no.
the mhl dongle? it can be had, but i don't it is available commercially in the us. happen to know if any non motorola phones with hdmi out has tried webtop?
http://motorola-global-eng.custhelp.com/rnt/rnw/img/enduser/oly_supdock_front_m.jpg
You have to connect both connectors at the same time. And if I read correctly, one of the two is a proprietary connector by Motorola.
no. i have the atrix. it's just micro hdmi and micro usb. the galaxy has mhl connection which can be used for hdmi out i believe. it's just hard getting mhl because hardly anything is using it right now.
Samsung provides an microUSB to HDMI cable. But then again, you can't connect both at the same time.
And I think the Atrix has some specific drivers (and a lot of modified Android OS files) too. While they can be dumped, you'd need to adapt them on a GSII ROM. And since it's quite useless, nobody will dive into this huge reverse engineering work.
Definately a no-go.
well some of the atrix webtop files have been pulled and that is part of what i was wondering if anybody has tried to do a quick zip with them and seen what happens. i'm pretty sure it isn't that simple because as you've said, probably custom files from motorola. to some peeps it might be worth it to be able to use webttop/lapdock but who knows how deep you gotta dig in. i don't have the skills for it and am not requesting it either. some phones have been able to boot into other os'es and such so this task isn't unsurmountable.
While it isn't surmontable, it would be pretty hard (not only there's some files related to the webtop (libs and such), but there's also a completely changed Android framework). So it would be a pain in the ass to adapt this with Samsung files.
And since there maximum 5 guys in the world who have both a motorola webtop and a Galaxy S II, there's not a lot of chances to have it working.
And again, there are not the right connectors. Even if the software is adapted, there's still the hardware issue.
Well thanks for all the answers. I was more curious about if other android users were curious about webtop and galaxy sii was a good forum to ask because it's a powerful phone and popular. I got the lapdock and it's pretty good for light duty utilization. And easier on the eyes. Thanks for your answers again.
I voided my warranty.
How hard would it be to get something like this to work with the Rezound?
I know with the Galaxy Nexus you can plug a microUSB to USB adapter in and use flash drives and external hard drives if you're using the right kernel.
I'm wanting something like this because it would be nice to plug into the network at work and ping printers and stuff like that with my phone instead of finding a computer and logging in.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812196235
Not in Gingerbread
USB host mode is only supported in Honeycomb or above, so this won't be possible without ICS on this phone.
I'm not sure if anyone has made an ICS kernel that supports USB host mode.
Also, in addition to compatible software, the phone also needs compatible hardware, which the Rezound might not have.
If you don't have wireless access buy an airport express.
wlmeng11 said:
USB host mode is only supported in Honeycomb or above, so this won't be possible without ICS on this phone.
I'm not sure if anyone has made an ICS kernel that supports USB host mode.
Also, in addition to compatible software, the phone also needs compatible hardware, which the Rezound might not have.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for your input
GrayTheWolf said:
If you don't have wireless access buy an airport express.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And this would defeat the purpose completely.
circa881 said:
Thanks for your input
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Apparently Chainfire tested a bunch of devices and listed the Rezound as incompatible.
http://usbhost.chainfire.eu/
He tested both Gingerbread and ICS, and none of them worked.
(Although those are all probably stock or modified Sense kernels, so maybe there's hope for AOSP? )
circa881 said:
And this would defeat the purpose completely.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How?
He said USB to Ethernet. Apparently he only has a hard wire connection. So, buy an airport express to make that hardwire wireless.
GrayTheWolf said:
How?
He said USB to Ethernet. Apparently he only has a hard wire connection. So, buy an airport express to make that hardwire wireless.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It doesn't totally defeat the purpose, but considerably complicates things. I'd sooner carry a laptop than break out a wireless router, fire it up, make sure it won't interfere with anything on the wired or wireless side (could be tough to do if you have to log in wireless), then ping/ssh/<your-protocol-here> through that device to get to the device I'm looking for.
With a USB dongle, plug it into the phone, into the wall, and do what you need to do.
Yeah the USB thing would be nice.
You are over complicating the router. Most routers are plug and play nowadays so Ethernet into existing network, and power is all you need with wireless freedom.
It would be even more to carry with me and more money than I'm willing to spend. I was just curious to know how hard it would be to plug my phone straight into the network so I can ping printers or telnet into stuff at work
circa881 said:
It would be even more to carry with me and more money than I'm willing to spend. I was just curious to know how hard it would be to plug my phone straight into the network so I can ping printers or telnet into stuff at work
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ethernet word be nice, but it doesn't exist. I was just providing an alternative.
I would be careful about plugging things into the work network. Some IT managers are rather...protective of their domains and set up extensive security, to the point where the particular port you plug into may shut down if it recognizes an unauthorized device. I work for the Marine Corps, and aside from the fact it's a punishable offense to connect an unauthorized device to the Navy/Marine Corps Intranet (and attached information systems), the switches will immediately disable a port with an unrecognized device connected.
Hello, i wish to enable promiscuous mode in my atrix 4g, but found out the chipset does not allow it.
The idea is to be able to crack easy WEP networks on the road.
Alternatively i was thinking on getting a cheap netbook and hook up a more powerfull USB wifi adapter like the 2 watt alfa AWUS036NH , that supports upgradable antennas as well, and was tested working in monitor / injection mode over linux.
but got me thinking, why spend money on a netbook if maybe i can hook up the wifi usb adapter into the atrix 4g hd multimedia dock, and then use aircrack with that wifi usb tested device, instead of the onboard wifi.
In know is possible to compile aircrack into android, but the problem always relies in incompatible monitor mode onboard wifi addapters.
With this USB addapter this issue would be solved.
Another issue is power, this 2w adapter needs it. I'm pretty sure the hd dock has a powered USB hub, so that would not be an issue. I would later hock up the dock into the car battery, or maybe use like a 12v 10a/h external battery for portability.
Does anyone has done anything like this before?
i already have a rooted phone and a debian img installed.
thanks
I'm also interested in it...
Seems that some tablet (like the flytouch 3) have a native support to some tipe you USB WiFi adapters
By the way this tablet have a similar "integrated USB WiFi adapter" (RT3070 or RTL8191SU) so it have the drivers already installed and this Is the reason why it support the adapter, I think...
Different usage scenario
Does anybody know if establishing wifi/lan using usb / multimedia dock is possible?
I'm not asking for aircrack or anything like that. I use an atrix in a multimedia dock (hooked up to stereo system) as my alarm clock, tuned to an internet radio station. My wifi on this atrix has recently burned out and I'd like to get a data connection again (external wifi/lan whatever) without needing to get a data plan (or activated sim at all).
Anybody ever try this or get it working somehow? A lot of atrixes get retired due to bad wifi, but if a cheap wifi dongle and bring it back to life, it can still serve many uses!!
Thanks!
cpl101 said:
Does anybody know if establishing wifi/lan using usb / multimedia dock is possible?
I'm not asking for aircrack or anything like that. I use an atrix in a multimedia dock (hooked up to stereo system) as my alarm clock, tuned to an internet radio station. My wifi on this atrix has recently burned out and I'd like to get a data connection again (external wifi/lan whatever) without needing to get a data plan (or activated sim at all).
Anybody ever try this or get it working somehow? A lot of atrixes get retired due to bad wifi, but if a cheap wifi dongle and bring it back to life, it can still serve many uses!!
Thanks!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Seeing as this thread has been dead for nearly a yr and post #1 says your answer, why reopen this?
Sent from my DROIDX using xda app-developers app
palmbeach05 said:
Seeing as this thread has been dead for nearly a yr and post #1 says your answer, why reopen this?
Sent from my DROIDX using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The op poses the same question as I do. It does not answer the question. Over a year has past with people's WiFi going out, new approaches or insight may have been gained in the community since then.
Since there was never an answer, a bump isn't exactly inappropriate on something that may have evolved.
Sent from my MB860 using xda app-developers app
Hi.
My cust-Android board is connected to a touch screen via a USB port. This touch screen fails to respond inrregularly on bi-monthly basis, which induces a great deal of agnoy for the testing process, and the product will be rolled off the manufacture lines in less than 5 months.
Currently the most troubling aspect of this whole ordeal is that we still couldn't quite decide if it's the fault of the onboard driver, the particular AOSP build we customized, schematics design for the board, which isn't done by us and the custom-designing studio vehemently denies any possible errors citing past experiences, or the cap-touch screen manufacture.
We are trying to narrow down the problem. As a group of people with mostly top-level software experience, I wanna know how to devise a plan to test this.
As of now we have installed a little robotic arm and have it touches on random places on the screen. But I'm less versed on the hardware/driver. How should I proceede? With limited knowledge, I understand frequent handshakes take place between the host side of the USB (which of course is our board) and the client side of the USB (which is the touch screen), is there and way we can document everything USB related and output to a log file on a laptop? Something like the adb logcat magic.
Can someone please help?
RagaePrince said:
Hi.
Can someone please help?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey.. whats the deal, no one?
I just want to monitor the usb connection, handshakes and/or keep-alive signals will be fine?