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I've been looking for a more technical analysis of these SOCs and I have been trying to learn how the async CPU setup on the MSM8660 affects performance.
Nvidia claims that the power saving feature of our CPU (async) will inevitably cause a decrease in performance:
http://www.intomobile.com/2011/03/2...ed&utm_campaign=Feed:+IntoMobile+(IntoMobile)
Does anyone have any comments on this? If this is the case, I am wondering if through software we can force both cores to run at the same voltage/frequency. I wonder if it would cause an increase in performance (at least in benchmarking). Many claim that the Evo 3d only gets medicore benchmark scores due to having asynchronous cores that are not being accurately benched. It would be interesting to verify this claim.
Also, does anyone know which SOC between the three I listed in the title is the highest in performance (not talking about useless benchmarks like quadrant)?
So....there is possibly a 10–15% decrease in performance.....that's fine with me. Most of the time you won't even notice until you run benchmarks and looks at the numbers.
SetCPU + Performance mode are all you should need
DarkManX4lf said:
So....there is possibly a 10–15% decrease in performance.....that's fine with me. Most of the time you won't even notice until you run benchmarks and looks at the numbers.
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Well the 10-15% slower is nVidia's claim, not sure if its true.
Does that make both cores run at the same time or running cores at the same time not possible due to the processor
xHausx said:
SetCPU + Performance mode are all you should need
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ttieder said:
Does that make both cores run at the same time or running cores at the same time not possible due to the processor
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It will keep the cpu running at full speed. Which core gets used for what depends on a lot of things but it mostly depends on how the apps and kernel are programmed.
xHausx said:
It will keep the cpu running at full speed. Which core gets used for what depends on a lot of things but it mostly depends on how the apps and kernel are programmed.
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Yes, but is it possible to keep both cores at their full frequency? Setting the exynos or tegra 2 on performance mode makes both cores stay at their maximum frequency since they are synchronous. I think setting performance mode on the Evo 3d would only guarantee that one of the core will remain at its full frequency.
Not sure about this of course. Anyone have any insight into this?
Second Core wouldnt kick in if ur not heavily multitasking or running multithreaded apps and u wouldnt need second core for minor multitasking or single threaded operations as single core is enough
i will tell you that on paper the msmx60 should beat out all, but in real world use, the exynos hammers everything. the s2 is a beast
The Exynos is the better SoC, plain and simple. If we get into GPU discussions, the Adreno 220 is the best, as in better than Mali 400.. Go to Anandtech, and watch them use a Qualcomm device for the benches.
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Is it a "for sure" thing that ICS will use the GPU acceleration in the OS? Or is that just everyone's hopes and dreams
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You could program the kernel to keep both cores at max frequency. Im not a developer but am sure something like this could be done
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bballer71418 said:
Is it a "for sure" thing that ICS will use the GPU acceleration in the OS? Or is that just everyone's hopes and dreams
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ics will include all of the features that honeycomb has and honeycomb has 2d acceleration so yes
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Maybe we should make some real world benchmarks and get some SGS2 people in on it. Like how fast a particular app opens(say angry birds), How many fps a game plays at, Convert a file to another format, complete a 5 step plan to take over the world things like that. Alot of things like that are how reviewers rate and test things like new video cards and cpus plus all the benchmark programs.
I used to use a program called fraps to see how many fps my pc games were playing at so I could tweak stuff( long live unreal tournament!!!!). It would just display the fps in the top corner of the screen.
Also comparing the 3vo and SGS2 will really heat up when we get root and CM7. 400mb less roms have gatta make a huge difference on performance. I dunno about you guys but I haven't been able clog up my 3vo yet(and I've been trying!), I'm pretty impressed with the hardware so far.
Drewmungus said:
Maybe we should make some real world benchmarks and get some SGS2 people in on it. Like how fast a particular app opens(say angry birds), How many fps a game plays at, Convert a file to another format, complete a 5 step plan to take over the world things like that. Alot of things like that are how reviewers rate and test things like new video cards and cpus plus all the benchmark programs.
I used to use a program called fraps to see how many fps my pc games were playing at so I could tweak stuff( long live unreal tournament!!!!). It would just display the fps in the top corner of the screen.
Also comparing the 3vo and SGS2 will really heat up when we get root and CM7. 400mb less roms have gatta make a huge difference on performance. I dunno about you guys but I haven't been able clog up my 3vo yet(and I've been trying!), I'm pretty impressed with the hardware so far.
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Fraps tends to lie with FPS.
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GPU acceleration will be nice. Hope we see ICS soon.
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It is known that the MSM8660 can achieve higher clock frequencies than the Exynos, though clock for clock the Exynos has better IPC.
As of right now the GSII beats the 3VO in both benchmarks and real world tests, but I suspect this is because Sense is a pig that takes far too much ram and system resources. HTC also seems to have poorer unoptimized drivers. In addition to this, the async CPUs of the 3VO may not be properly tested by current benchmarking tools.
I think comparing a rooted 3VO and a rooted GSII should be much closer. Imagine the MSM8660 at 1.8-2.0 Ghz both cores running full frequency with no Sense and other bloat to slow it down. Combine that with a hardware accelerated GUI and this phone should be amazing.
The Adreno GPU will get better over time... and will develop much faster than before. Since Qualcomm purchased the branch from AMD (ATi), there has been much improvement in a reasonably small amount of time. There are various claims that the Adreno 220 outperforms the Tegra 2. I havent seen a solid comparison of the Adreno 220 vs the Exynos although I have read that the Exynos is a very capable processor.
As they both stand in stock offering, the Samsung GS2 will be faster; it has tremendous less resources to move. I agree with what has been said about root & rom options: CM7 on the EVO 3D will likely result in unprecedented (real world) benchmarks .Also note that the current Android releases are not yet optimized for dual/quad core management. But rest assured, it is well under development and the Sprint EVO 4G4D (hypothetical name) will behold a treasure trove of menacing capabilities.
HTC + Qualcomm + Android = Future
I think we should just wait until we can do a head-to-head AOSP CM 7 benchmark/real world test to see what happens. I'm confident the SGSII will get shredded by the E3D.
It seems unfair to compare anything within the phone itself now, because of what each phone has to run. Sense is pretty tasking on our phones and I can't say as much for the opposition.
It's funny to see NVIDIA make snide comments about Qualcomm when their phones are getting bested. Although I must say it is impressive to see that Tegra 2 phones are over a year old and keeping up with the E3D's dual-core deliciousness.
Just my thoughts.
Personally I don't believe Nvidia, plenty of benchmarks contradict their statement. That and whoever said "Additionally, the operating systems like Android and many apps aren’t set up for an asynchronous architecture." is an idiot because 99% of apps in the market don't support dual core lmfao.
just my observation: Quadrant run for touchpad only gives score of around 2400... my nook color with 1.3ghz single core gives score of over 2600 all the time!!! i looked into the device info, it seems like it only using 1 core!!! does cm7 only recognizing one core??? what r ur guys thought??? is there a fix for it or any kernels that utilize both cores of touchpad!!!
The Quadrant results on the TP are skewed because the GPU code has not yet been implemented (or optimized) which primarily affects the FPS section (looks like is is only doing about 4 frames per second) where all the other graphics demos (especially the planet one) do 20-60 frames per second which is a 300%-600% improvement over the Nook Color running 1.2GHz.
I would be interested in other benchmarks that are not dependent on the GPU code.
try using Antutu - free from market
it separates the scores according to each test
(also shows total)
i got around 5000 - OC 1.7 ghz
Maybe it is because we are running an un-optimized alpha build...Don't worry about synthetic benchmarks anyway.
Both cores are already being used, what is your processor clocked too?
I'm completely aware benchmarks don't really mean much, but for curiosities sake, out of 3 runs, I averaged 3228 in quadrant. I am overclocked to 1782mhz ondemand.
I suggest you run SunSpider also.
What I don't understand is if the GPU gets high scores in benchmarks like 53-58 fps on nenamark1. 59-60 + fps on the antutu gpu section, adn everything seems to run smooth on the phone. I noticed there is some lag for the launcher and scrolling for the stock sense launcher, as well sa go launcher ex. Could it just be that sense really bogs a phone down? Or maybe theres just a few small glitches that need to be addressed? With these specs 1.5ghz snapdragon w/ the s3 soc which is no slouch, and an adreno 220 GPU which is stronger than the power 540, you'd imagine there would be no graphical/transitonal lag. Or lag of any kind at all. I really am thinking it is software/sense and all the crapware and bloat that was added to this phone.
I came from the RAZR (not interested in the nexus cause samsung and no SD) and there wasn't any graphical/transitional lag on that phone. It does have the lighter version of blur, and the only real thing that I noticed, was stock launcher had a slight stutter when you first scroll and thats it. On go launcher the app drawer scrolling was smooth as butter, but doesn't seem as smooth on the Rezound. Could it also be the fact that the applications aren't optimized yet for this resolution? Any input would be appreciated! Thanks!
well, here's the thing. the RAZR & Galaxy Nexus both have the same CPU, and yes, it runs at 1.2GHz
the Rezound is 1.5GHz(factory overclocked), but was originally a 1.2GHz CPU as well... not to mention that the CPU in the Rezound is also nearly a year older then the CPU in the other 2.
that still doesn't mean that the CPU sucks, it's just a tad out dated(really all dual-cores are since quad-core is on the way). of course, once we get perm root we'll be able to overclock and everything will be dandy.
the main issue though is that Gingerbread isn't really built to properly handle multi-core CPU's. it won't be until we get ICS or again, perm root & then able to load de-sensed/aosp roms that we'll really be able to see what this phone can actually do.
Fisrt, the CPU that raze uses and galaxy nexus uses are different. They both run at 1.2ghz though the one on nexus is supposed to be clocked at 1.5. Secondly, the CPU on resound is not overclocked. It is supposed to run at the 1.5 GHz clock speed.
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On the wiki it shows that the MSM8660 ranges from 1.2 - 1.5 ghz so probably not factor OC'd. Probalby just how they were turned out when they were binned. The outside of the wafer probably were stable 1.2 - 1.3 and the center 1.4 - 1.5. Yeah it shows Q3 2010 makes you wonder why htc would put a chipset that old in a current phone, but still performance shouldn't be like this at all. Even though it only has single-channel 333 MHz ISM/266 MHz LPDDR2 RAM I doubt that will bottle neck the CPU in anyway shape or form. The TI 4430 Q1 2011 and the 4460 Q4 2011, both use the 540 GPU but have dual channel RAM. Not sure how much of a difference that makes, but considering that Intel went back from triple channel to dual channel, shouldn't be too much.
Antutu benches show that the CPU's pretty much obtain the same scores for CPU/2D 3D graphics. Hell even the Rezound gets better nenamark1 scores by like 5-7 fps. So the benches show on paper this phone is equally just as powerful as the RAZR/Nexus yet they have these graphical/UI stutters/lag?
I really am just thinking that Sense/Bloat have plagued a powerful phone. The RAZR isn't too bogged down by the lighter blur it seems, just the poor coding of moto. Shame the MSM8960 didn't come out sooner and inb4 it's on the Rezound 2 next year or something lol. One just can never keep up with technology and it's futile to try w/ the rate hardware changes with Android.
any lag you notice is def sense.
notice the notification dropdown lag?
yeah, that's been in EVERY SINGLE sense 2/3 hybrid rom on the HTC incredible in the past 4 or so months. it's a problem with (i assume) gingerbread and the new sense.
when we ran froyo Z roms with sense 2.0, t here was no lag in bringing down the notification dropdown.
many people said it was bc of the recent apps..however, in many sense 2/3 hybrid roms on GB, devs took out the recent apps, and it still did it.
pretty sure it's just bc sense is a hog, and something is coded weird/bad here. i know that notification dropdown lag pisssssssssssssssssssed me off so much on the incredible, and seeing it on a brand new dual core phone really gets me angry, but i stopped being so anal about it and realized that this phone is AMAZING in every other sense (no pun intended )
In case it isn't clear, the RAZR uses the OMAP 4430, while the Nexus uses the slightly newer OMAP 4460. The only real difference I know of is that the GPU in the 4460 is overclocked to 384 MHz, while the GPU in the 4430 is around 300 MHz.
The Droid Bionic and the RAZR are practically identical in hardware, with the excemption of a better screen and camera on the RAZR.
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jayochs said:
any lag you notice is def sense.
notice the notification dropdown lag?
yeah, that's been in EVERY SINGLE sense 2/3 hybrid rom on the HTC incredible in the past 4 or so months. it's a problem with (i assume) gingerbread and the new sense.
when we ran froyo Z roms with sense 2.0, t here was no lag in bringing down the notification dropdown.
many people said it was bc of the recent apps..however, in many sense 2/3 hybrid roms on GB, devs took out the recent apps, and it still did it.
pretty sure it's just bc sense is a hog, and something is coded weird/bad here. i know that notification dropdown lag pisssssssssssssssssssed me off so much on the incredible, and seeing it on a brand new dual core phone really gets me angry, but i stopped being so anal about it and realized that this phone is AMAZING in every other sense (no pun intended )
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Good pun was good! The nerd in me approves! Anyways I came from the RAZR cause I just couldn't STAND the battery life/heat on that phone it was terrible, horrible even. Smart actions data saver which turns of backround synching I'd wake up with 30-40% of the battery gone :/. The phone also got pretty damn hot like 104-110 while watching netflix w/ full brightness. Although it did remain the same temperature 104-110 while on the charger. I'm not a fan of Samsung phones at all so the Nexus was out of the picture for me (that + no SD card and low quality build, screen issues I could go on). I can't wait for AOSP, or some custom ROM that eliminates launcher/notifications lag. The browser doesnt' fair too well either on sites with full flash. I'm sure I could download a 3rd party browser and it'd be okay.
that's whats great about the rezound, and android in general....buy the rezound for some great hardware etc, then if you really want to, root it and put AOSP on it.
with any other phone, you can't root it and put sense on it. i love sense personally, even though she's a hog. yeah, it's a little slow sometimes, but honestly, i could NEVER have a motorola or a samsung as an android phone. at this point, i NEED htc because it looks and handles the best to me.
I personally do think that the SoC on the Rezound is superior when compared to RAZR/Nexus. I like how sense looks yes, it's is no doubt the best added skin out there. I am a performance junkie and I like to fine tune all my electronic devices, computer, phone, tv etc. I can't wait to get a good ROM on here AOSP, hell even sense if it fixes the lag problems, and shows smoother app drawer scrolling for the sense launcher and third party launchers.
RAZR = 1.2GHz OMAP4430
Nexus = 1.2GHz OMAP4460
The 4460 is spec'ed at 1.5GHz, but was probably underclocked to conserve battery and whatnot.
The processor in the Rezound is a dual-core Scorpion based snapdragon. Scorpion is an instruction set based on Cortex A8, so it's a little older than the OMAP4 core which are Cortex A9 based.
The short answer is the SoC in the RAZR and the Nexus are actually quite a bit better than the one in the Rezound. It's a whole generation ahead.
Scorpion is loosely based on A8, they license the instructions from arm but make their own mods, so it's a tweaked A8 with some A9 features. The new krait will be like an A15 so hopefully qualcomm will jump ahead. All I know is the omap came out last and their linpack scores are crazy high for multithreaded. At this point though it's not a big deal, i don't have any lag on my Evo 3D and it's the qualcomm. Just relax and enjoy the ride of tech
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lpjzfan2005 said:
Scorpion is loosely based on A8, they license the instructions from arm but make their own mods, so it's a tweaked A8 with some A9 features. The new krait will be like an A15 so hopefully qualcomm will jump ahead. All I know is the omap came out last and their linpack scores are crazy high for multithreaded. At this point though it's not a big deal, i don't have any lag on my Evo 3D and it's the qualcomm. Just relax and enjoy the ride of tech
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Linpack is junk for benches imo. Idk whats bogging down the Rezound. Maybe just sense and all the crapware? Or software isn't properly utilized for the HD? Linpack for the 4430 85-90, Rezound just hit 88 on first run derpppp.
Berzerker7 said:
RAZR = 1.2GHz OMAP4430
Nexus = 1.2GHz OMAP4460
The 4460 is spec'ed at 1.5GHz, but was probably underclocked to conserve battery and whatnot.
The processor in the Rezound is a dual-core Scorpion based snapdragon. Scorpion is an instruction set based on Cortex A8, so it's a little older than the OMAP4 core which are Cortex A9 based.
The short answer is the SoC in the RAZR and the Nexus are actually quite a bit better than the one in the Rezound. It's a whole generation ahead.
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Yeah its underclocked from 1.5 I'm sure, I doubt it's a lower quality 4460 (which im sure they mark as 4430 assuming theyre form the same wafer). What I don't get is the phones do have similar benches rezound topping off some and the RAZR/Nexus topping off some. But regardless of the the soc being a bit older, there still should be ZERO lag on a device of this caliber. Especially when you get the lag from the status notifcation bar, the appdrawer scrolling( even on 3rd party launchers like go). I just wonder if its sense or coding is not properly utilized for the resolution, I have no idea. Any thoughts?
Its sense... Sense is just massive. I can almost 100% guarantee that its sense....
On my Desire 6275, with 2fasts miui and cm7, my desire had no lag what so ever with anything. Though it was a single core and old and the ram and memory were bull**** garbage. On an AOSP rom and even a stripped modified sense rom it didn't lag at all for UI transitions and app launching. I didn't even have it overclocked.
I bet this phone will be dam near perfect on an AOSP or stripped sense rom... I'm excited for it lol. I bet we can even underclock it and still have exceptional performance. And I have no complaints about battery life either. So on an undervolted kernel it will improve even more.
With a great developer following and an overall better hardware configuration than any other phone, this will easily keep me happy until 4quater next year(until the next best phone) or even after that maybe
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platinumrims said:
Its sense... Sense is just massive. I can almost 100% guarantee that its sense....
On my Desire 6275, with 2fasts miui and cm7, my desire had no lag what so ever with anything. Though it was a single core and old and the ram and memory were bull**** garbage. On an AOSP rom and even a stripped modified sense rom it didn't lag at all for UI transitions and app launching. I didn't even have it overclocked.
I bet this phone will be dam near perfect on an AOSP or stripped sense rom... I'm excited for it lol. I bet we can even underclock it and still have exceptional performance. And I have no complaints about battery life either. So on an undervolted kernel it will improve even more.
With a great developer following and an overall better hardware configuration than any other phone, this will easily keep me happy until 4quater next year(until the next best phone) or even after that maybe
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I have no doubt that this phone can be a top performer w/ the soc eventhough it's last years model. I'm sure they have improved upon it more, hell it performs with the current TIOMAP socs and even beats it in some areas. The RAZR had terrible battery life and it did perform great on a stripped down blur. I was thinking about the Nexus but Samsung (no ty), no SD card (no ty), cheap build quality which also has to do with reason #1. I heard there were also screen issues w/ the Nexus, bad sound quality etc. I was very hopeful of the Nexus but was disappointed when it was Samsung building the phone. So that leaves the Rezound w/ its HD display, $120 dollar headphones and designed for media which is my #1 priority. Hopefully we get S-off and we can get rid of a lot of this trash on a great phone.
Update: I slapped on ADW EX and the stutter/jerking for the notification bar has been greatly minimized. App drawer is a lot smoother for sure. Interesting thing is everything else runs great. I was watching 1280 x 720p video off the class 4 SD with very minor lag. I put in my class 10 SD so we'll see how that goes! I'm sure once this phone is on AOSP or a stripped version of Sense, she'll fly even more.
platinumrims said:
Its sense... Sense is just massive. I can almost 100% guarantee that its sense....
On my Desire 6275, with 2fasts miui and cm7, my desire had no lag what so ever with anything. Though it was a single core and old and the ram and memory were bull**** garbage. On an AOSP rom and even a stripped modified sense rom it didn't lag at all for UI transitions and app launching. I didn't even have it overclocked.
I bet this phone will be dam near perfect on an AOSP or stripped sense rom... I'm excited for it lol. I bet we can even underclock it and still have exceptional performance. And I have no complaints about battery life either. So on an undervolted kernel it will improve even more.
With a great developer following and an overall better hardware configuration than any other phone, this will easily keep me happy until 4quater next year(until the next best phone) or even after that maybe
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Sense roms are around 350 mb stock, aosp is about 80-100 depending on the phone... Sense is a huge memory hog
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Sense for this rom is over 500mb. Aosp can get down to 50ish mb which is amazing.
con247 said:
Sense for this rom is over 500mb. Aosp can get down to 50ish mb which is amazing.
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Yea, that size is closer to what I was thinking
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Ridiculous, and what is more ridiculous is that the phone is able to function for the most part!
From what I have read, No android os, including Froyo and Gingerbread, have been built to fully use a gpu for hardward acceleration with the exception of Honeycomb. ICS is the first android os to have it fully supported. This is why the iPhone has always seemed to have smoother scrolling. IOS has always had it. I can't wait until our Rezound gets ICS and unleash this gpu.
X10 is garbage! this is outrageous!
Yes really, they got it working, you want it so bad try porting it yourself
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cry about it?
if you want it so bad for your phone, learn to port it yourself. until then, since you rely solely on other peoples' hard work and sweat, shut up and be patient.
dLo GSR said:
cry about it?
if you want it so bad for your phone, learn to port it yourself. until then, since you rely solely on other peoples' hard work and sweat, shut up and be patient.
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Oh snap. That was awesome.
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I might start to look into trying to port it this weekend
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firefox3 said:
I might start to look into trying to port it this weekend
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Good news man
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Being that there are currently no EGL libs for anything except PowerVR SGX devices under ICS yet, and they're closed source and tightly dependent on the kernel there doesn't seem to be a huge point until the official updates start to hit for a range of devices.
Sure, Desire, HD, X10, N1 have ports of a sort at the moment, in fact there shouldn't be too many problems getting them working aside from the graphics drivers but they're just for fun with the framebuffer driver given how much of ICS' UI rendering is done with GPU acceleration in mind. You wouldn't want to use it day-to-day. The browser is surprisingly responsive on the Desire though (I'd say moreso than GB, despite the software rendering), as is the Market (the new one always lagged really badly for me on the Desire before) - glimmers of hope for ICS' eventual performance on older devices. The keyboard lags like you wouldn't believe though!
The Atrix should fly under 4.0.1 though, if it ever happens - bearing in mind the fact that the SGX 540 in the Galaxy Nexus is pretty much in a dead heat with Tegra 2's GPU, we've got a lower resolution screen, and can overclock past the its stock speeds.
Javi97100 said:
Good news man
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Its turning out to be harder then i though... I think no one will get it until offical updates come out for other phones
Azurael said:
Being that there are currently no EGL libs for anything except PowerVR SGX devices under ICS yet, and they're closed source and tightly dependent on the kernel there doesn't seem to be a huge point until the official updates start to hit for a range of devices.
Sure, Desire, HD, X10, N1 have ports of a sort at the moment, in fact there shouldn't be too many problems getting them working aside from the graphics drivers but they're just for fun with the framebuffer driver given how much of ICS' UI rendering is done with GPU acceleration in mind. You wouldn't want to use it day-to-day. The browser is surprisingly responsive on the Desire though (I'd say moreso than GB, despite the software rendering), as is the Market (the new one always lagged really badly for me on the Desire before) - glimmers of hope for ICS' eventual performance on older devices. The keyboard lags like you wouldn't believe though!
The Atrix should fly under 4.0.1 though, if it ever happens - bearing in mind the fact that the SGX 540 in the Galaxy Nexus is pretty much in a dead heat with Tegra 2's GPU, we've got a lower resolution screen, and can overclock past the its stock speeds.
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So EGL = gpu driver? If thats the only setback, would it be possible to get an ICS rom with software rendering as a proof of concept, or are there other pieces missing?
GB/CM7 is pretty good on the Atrix, if we dont see ICS for a few months it doesn't hurt us in any way. I'd like to think most of us can be patient if we lack the skills to help.
I noticed the Captivate got a port of it too since i9000 ROMs and Cap ROMs are interchangeable. I thought its funny that it's running on the HD a Windows Mobile 6.5 phone lol. Let's all try to be patient and we will eventually see it.
Edit: not to mention I'm sure if it's not already it will soon be on iPhone too. It seems like iPhones always get the new Android versions kinda early. I'm not sweating it I love my Atrix in its current state.
According to anandtech, Tegra 2 support is essentially ready, so I think as long as nvidia releases the source for ics (libs?), someone will try to port it. Hell, I have a good 5 weeks during break, I might as well try then.
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Azurael said:
Being that there are currently no EGL libs for anything except PowerVR SGX devices under ICS yet, and they're closed source and tightly dependent on the kernel there doesn't seem to be a huge point until the official updates start to hit for a range of devices.
Sure, Desire, HD, X10, N1 have ports of a sort at the moment, in fact there shouldn't be too many problems getting them working aside from the graphics drivers but they're just for fun with the framebuffer driver given how much of ICS' UI rendering is done with GPU acceleration in mind. You wouldn't want to use it day-to-day. The browser is surprisingly responsive on the Desire though (I'd say moreso than GB, despite the software rendering), as is the Market (the new one always lagged really badly for me on the Desire before) - glimmers of hope for ICS' eventual performance on older devices. The keyboard lags like you wouldn't believe though!
The Atrix should fly under 4.0.1 though, if it ever happens - bearing in mind the fact that the SGX 540 in the Galaxy Nexus is pretty much in a dead heat with Tegra 2's GPU, we've got a lower resolution screen, and can overclock past the its stock speeds.
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Actually, no, despite being a much older GPU, the SGX 540 found in the GNexus outpaces the Tegra 2 due to its higher clock rate by 7% or 45% depending on the GLBenchmark being run. Both GPU tests were done at 720p resolution. Also, you can't overclock the GPU, only the CPU.
edgeicator said:
Actually, no, despite being a much older GPU, the SGX 540 found in the GNexus outpaces the Tegra 2 due to its higher clock rate by 7% or 45% depending on the GLBenchmark being run. Both GPU tests were done at 720p resolution. Also, you can't overclock the GPU, only the CPU.
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Buddy, check out any of the kernels available in the dev thread and you'll see that the GPUs are overclocked.
WiredPirate said:
I noticed the Captivate got a port of it too since i9000 ROMs and Cap ROMs are interchangeable. I thought its funny that it's running on the HD a Windows Mobile 6.5 phone lol. Let's all try to be patient and we will eventually see it.
Edit: not to mention I'm sure if it's not already it will soon be on iPhone too. It seems like iPhones always get the new Android versions kinda early. I'm not sweating it I love my Atrix in its current state.
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Doubt the iPhone will see ICS, the newest model that can run android as far as I know is the iPhone 3G, which was incredibly slow under Gingerbread.
mac208x said:
X10 is garbage! this is outrageous!
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222 posts and zero thanks? Is this what you do, go around XDA and post useless threads like the guy complaining about returning home early despite nobody asking him to "to get MIUI ported on his grandma's phone"?
Are you guys related by any chance?
edgeicator said:
Actually, no, despite being a much older GPU, the SGX 540 found in the GNexus outpaces the Tegra 2 due to its higher clock rate by 7% or 45% depending on the GLBenchmark being run. Both GPU tests were done at 720p resolution. Also, you can't overclock the GPU, only the CPU.
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Depends on the benchmark, yes - texture-heavy rendering tends to perform better on the 540 in the OMAP4460 thanks to it's dual channel memory controller and high clock (and that's probably the directly relevant part to UI rendering to be honest, though as I said - lower resolution screen ) but the Tegra 2 is quite substantially ahead in geometry-heavy rendering (and games on mobiles are starting to move that way now, following the desktop landscape over the past 5 years or so.) Averaged out, the performance of the two is very close.
Plus, as I said, the GPU in my phone is running at 400MHz which ought to even things out in the GLMark 720p tests somewhat even if they are biassed to one architecture or the other. While the GPU in OMAP4460 may overclock just as well from its stock 400MHz, I'm only really concerned that the phone can run as fast as a stock GNexus to maybe skip the next generation of mobile hardware and tide it over until Cortex A15-based SoCs on 28nm process start to emerge with stronger GPUs. I don't really think I'm CPU performance bound with a 1.4GHz dual-core A9 - and increasing the number of equivalent cores without a really substantial boost in GPU horesepower seems worthless right now, even if ICS takes better advantage of SMP (re: Disappointing early Tegra 3 benchmarks - although it does seem GLMark stacks the odds against NVidia GPUs more than other benchmarks?)
Azurael said:
Depends on the benchmark, yes - texture-heavy rendering tends to perform better on the 540 in the OMAP4460 thanks to it's dual channel memory controller and high clock (and that's probably the directly relevant part to UI rendering to be honest, though as I said - lower resolution screen ) but the Tegra 2 is quite substantially ahead in geometry-heavy rendering (and games on mobiles are starting to move that way now, following the desktop landscape over the past 5 years or so.) Averaged out, the performance of the two is very close.
Plus, as I said, the GPU in my phone is running at 400MHz which ought to even things out in the GLMark 720p tests somewhat even if they are biassed to one architecture or the other. While the GPU in OMAP4460 may overclock just as well from its stock 400MHz, I'm only really concerned that the phone can run as fast as a stock GNexus to maybe skip the next generation of mobile hardware and tide it over until Cortex A15-based SoCs on 28nm process start to emerge with stronger GPUs. I don't really think I'm CPU performance bound with a 1.4GHz dual-core A9 - and increasing the number of equivalent cores without a really substantial boost in GPU horesepower seems worthless right now, even if ICS takes better advantage of SMP (re: Disappointing early Tegra 3 benchmarks - although it does seem GLMark stacks the odds against NVidia GPUs more than other benchmarks?)
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I would expect the Tegra to beat a nearly 5 year old GPU, but it only does so in triangle throughput. Tegra just uses a very poor architecture in general. Look at how little actual horsepower it can pull. The Tegra 3 gpu pulls 7.2GFLOPs @300mhz. The iPad GPU and the upcoming Adreno 225 both pull 19.2 GFLOPS at that same clockspeed. I honestly have no idea what the engineers are thinking over atNnvidia. It's almost as bad as AMD's latest bulldozer offerings. It's really more of Tegra's shortcomings than GLMark stacking the odds. PowerVR's offerings from 2007 are keeping up with a chip that debuted in 2010/2011. The Geforce just doesn't seem to scale very well at all on mobile platforms. But yea, all Nvidia did with Tegra 3 was slap in 2 extra cores, clocked them higher, threw in the sorely missed NEON instruction set, increased the SIMDs on the GPU by 50% (8 to 12), and then tacked on a 5th hidden core to help save power. Tegra 3 stayed with the 40nm process whereas every other SoC is dropping down to 28nm with some bringing in a brand new architecture as well.
edgeicator said:
I would expect the Tegra to beat a nearly 5 year old GPU, but it only does so in triangle throughput. Tegra just uses a very poor architecture in general. Look at how little actual horsepower it can pull. The Tegra 3 gpu pulls 7.2GFLOPs @300mhz. The iPad GPU and the upcoming Adreno 225 both pull 19.2 GFLOPS at that same clockspeed. I honestly have no idea what the engineers are thinking over atNnvidia. It's almost as bad as AMD's latest bulldozer offerings. It's really more of Tegra's shortcomings than GLMark stacking the odds. PowerVR's offerings from 2007 are keeping up with a chip that debuted in 2010/2011. The Geforce just doesn't seem to scale very well at all on mobile platforms. But yea, all Nvidia did with Tegra 3 was slap in 2 extra cores, clocked them higher, threw in the sorely missed NEON instruction set, increased the SIMDs on the GPU by 50% (8 to 12), and then tacked on a 5th hidden core to help save power. Tegra 3 stayed with the 40nm process whereas every other SoC is dropping down to 28nm with some bringing in a brand new architecture as well.
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Don't you get tired if writing those long rants? We understand you know something about CPU architecture, and that Tegra isn't the best one out there, but damn man, it's the same thing in every thread. Just chill out and try to stay on topic for once
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edgeicator said:
I would expect the Tegra to beat a nearly 5 year old GPU, but it only does so in triangle throughput. Tegra just uses a very poor architecture in general. Look at how little actual horsepower it can pull. The Tegra 3 gpu pulls 7.2GFLOPs @300mhz. The iPad GPU and the upcoming Adreno 225 both pull 19.2 GFLOPS at that same clockspeed. I honestly have no idea what the engineers are thinking over atNnvidia. It's almost as bad as AMD's latest bulldozer offerings. It's really more of Tegra's shortcomings than GLMark stacking the odds. PowerVR's offerings from 2007 are keeping up with a chip that debuted in 2010/2011. The Geforce just doesn't seem to scale very well at all on mobile platforms. But yea, all Nvidia did with Tegra 3 was slap in 2 extra cores, clocked them higher, threw in the sorely missed NEON instruction set, increased the SIMDs on the GPU by 50% (8 to 12), and then tacked on a 5th hidden core to help save power. Tegra 3 stayed with the 40nm process whereas every other SoC is dropping down to 28nm with some bringing in a brand new architecture as well.
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I think you are not seeing the whole picture...
The Tegra 3 (Et-Al) is not just about its quad core implementation, remember that the GPU will offer 12 cores that will translate in performance not seeing as of yet on any other platform.
Benchmarks don't tell the whole story! Specially those benchmarking tools which are not Tegra 3 optimized yet.
Cheers!
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WiredPirate said:
I noticed the Captivate got a port of it too since i9000 ROMs and Cap ROMs are interchangeable. I thought its funny that it's running on the HD a Windows Mobile 6.5 phone lol. Let's all try to be patient and we will eventually see it.
Edit: not to mention I'm sure if it's not already it will soon be on iPhone too. It seems like iPhones always get the new Android versions kinda early. I'm not sweating it I love my Atrix in its current state.
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LOL I ran all the iDroid ports on my iphone. Not one was even in alpha stage, I would not even count iDroid as a port since you cant use anything on it.
just want to know how noticable the difference in GPU performance is vs the iPhone 4S graphics. Iv seen all the benchmarks, however I dont believe they measure accurately so therefore i am just wondering how different or noticable the graphics are in comparison...
1) Benchmarks are utterly pointless/meaningless. They do not even remotely simulate real world use.
2) How do you make an honest/objective/realistic comparison between two phones with completely different hardware ? Answer: You can't. Any comparison made will be purely subjective/opinion only.
peterdan1506 said:
just want to know how noticable the difference in GPU performance is vs the iPhone 4S graphics. Iv seen all the benchmarks, however I dont believe they measure accurately so therefore i am just wondering how different or noticable the graphics are in comparison...
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Ive yet to play a game on the sgs2 that doesnt run super smooth....
Riptide gp, dead space etc
Should developers start making more advanced games to maximize GPU potential, the iphone4s will reach its bottleneck for its 800mhz cpu anyway.
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