How high do you think we can clock the processors on the EVO 3D? I recall they are 1.5 ghz chips underclocked to conserve battery life. Think these can hit that magical 2.0? Or at least 1.8?
I could see maybe 1.6 but honestly nothing over 1.4ghz is worth it... (batter>speed)
And nothing currently requires anything over 1.2ghz or 1.5ghz for that matter, other than peoples e-penis.
Id like to see a 1.4ghz uv kernel over 1.8ghz 1 hour battery killer but I will use and test all of them
sent from anything but an iPhone
nate420 said:
I could see maybe 1.6 but honestly nothing over 1.4ghz is worth it... (batter>speed)
And nothing currently requires anything over 1.2ghz or 1.5ghz for that matter, other than peoples e-penis.
Id like to see a 1.4ghz uv kernel over 1.8ghz 1 hour battery killer but I will use and test all of them
sent from anything but an iPhone
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well that's your opinion. I highly doubt a overclocking the processor to 1.8 would bring the phone down to one hour of battery life. It's not like it would be constantly running at that speed. I would prefer speed over battery life as I charge my phone every night and have plenty left over even overclocked to almost 1.3 on my EVO.
nate420 said:
I could see maybe 1.6 but honestly nothing over 1.4ghz is worth it... (batter>speed)
And nothing currently requires anything over 1.2ghz or 1.5ghz for that matter, other than peoples e-penis.
Id like to see a 1.4ghz uv kernel over 1.8ghz 1 hour battery killer but I will use and test all of them
sent from anything but an iPhone
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think this is less about practicality and more about pushing our phone to the limits. overclocking on an already fast enough processor on a device which runs for the most part on battery, is not needed. however it is fun and nice to see the benchmarks soar.
I say 1.8ghz-2ghz
If they're anything like the EVO 4G, then it wont be a very high overclock
But assuming all are capable of 1.5 GHz, then it would be at least a 400-450 MHz overclock!
freeza said:
If they're anything like the EVO 4G, then it wont be a very high overclock
But assuming all are capable of 1.5 GHz, then it would be at least a 400-450 MHz overclock!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My g2x was overclocked to 1.6ghz and its only a 1ghz dual core phone...
Id say we could see maybe 1.8ghz if this phone is really 1.5 dropped down to 1.2
sent from anything but an iPhone
fmedina2 said:
Well that's your opinion. I highly doubt a overclocking the processor to 1.8 would bring the phone down to one hour of battery life. It's not like it would be constantly running at that speed. I would prefer speed over battery life as I charge my phone every night and have plenty left over even overclocked to almost 1.3 on my EVO.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Again for e-penis and bragging rights on benchmarks nothing more...
As for saying 1.8 oc would kill it in a hour I was joking...
And I bet dollars to donuts you don't see a change in "speed" past 1.6ghz other than a hot battery.
Ginger bread can't fully optimize dual cores it does the job but untill a new os is out
no point ruining a battery for "speed" you won't see
sent from anything but an iPhone
While performance is key, I'd say this phone is well above the bar of expectations for most Android Apps at the current time. I'm more interested in squeezing the most battery life I possibly can via Underclocking. It will be nice to see how far this can be pushed with Two Cores to spread the workload across.
nate420 said:
I could see maybe 1.6 but honestly nothing over 1.4ghz is worth it... (batter>speed)
And nothing currently requires anything over 1.2ghz or 1.5ghz for that matter, other than peoples e-penis.
Id like to see a 1.4ghz uv kernel over 1.8ghz 1 hour battery killer but I will use and test all of them
sent from anything but an iPhone
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
btw the way i have the bigest e penis lol it is googolplex inchs
why are people saying such low numbers the second gen snapdragons can go to what 1.9? if ours is 1.5 stock dropped down to 1.2 then i think we can at least hit 2
I'd bet that the chips in these phones will be those that were unstable at 1.5 ghz. That's how chip makers do these things. They make them all the same, then those with unstable silicon are sold as a lower clock speed. Not sure I'd expect over 1.5 and that might require higher voltage. Hope I'm wrong. We'll see I guess.
hdad2 said:
I'd bet that the chips in these phones will be those that were unstable at 1.5 ghz. That's how chip makers do these things. They make them all the same, then those with unstable silicon are sold as a lower clock speed. Not sure I'd expect over 1.5 and that might require higher voltage. Hope I'm wrong. We'll see I guess.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wrong, to lazy to explain for now.
toxicfumes22 said:
Wrong.....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hope so!
10char
toxicfumes22 said:
Wrong, to lazy to explain for now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OK, a little less lazy right now. But simply the way that manufactures choose the speeds for processors is actually simple. In the case of the 3D it IS underclocked. The processor is an asynchronous dual core with clock speeds initially set at 1.5 by Qualcom and is used in Qualcom's phone they produce for developers. It is underclocked by HTC because of battery problems listed from the 4G and the unnecessary need of 1.5GHz in a F*ing phone. Manufactures for the most part do not underclock the CPU. The reason it is set at the level it is, is because it is most stable, efficient and meets the heat extraction needs (People forget CPUs are just circuits and produce heat with more voltage). OK lets back this up shall we. OK.
That is why I'm too lazy to post thing, I have to search up a link cause most of this is my general knowledge. Anyways, the QSD8650 found in the EVO 4G is clocked at 1GHz and has been posted to a stable 1.3GHz I believe by a recent post. Now the MSM8660 is posted to be a 1.5GHz CPU, so its overclocking potential is more near 2GHz but I would suspect it to get a little warm(sweaty palms anyone?) and I wouldn't know how stable it would be either (I don't know phones the best). Why is it underclocked? Because people kept *****ing at how much battery the EVO used and as technology improves so does the efficiency of CPUs so they go with the most recent and just underclock it. I've seen a comparison graph somewhere by Qualcom but I spent about 10minutes looking for it and couldn't find it but it was really nifty. If someone finds it plz post it, it shows the energy vs Clock speed and it is very cool.
Anyways, to respond to whoever said that the 1.5GHz is the max and that all manufacturers underclock the CPU based upon the silicon is WRONG, wrong WrOnG and Rong/wong (Im sorry I dont remember the exact response). Anyways, its the heat extraction and the silicon hurts it because it doesn't let all the heat through, which is one of the reason your PS3 may have yellow lighted on you(Yes its because of the CPU disconnecting from the Motherboard, but why do you think this extra heat was generated?).
Sorry this is so long and I got distracted a few times while writing it so it I messed up or something doesn't make sense I apologize but being lazy is really a pain in the ass.
hdad2 said:
I'd bet that the chips in these phones will be those that were unstable at 1.5 ghz. That's how chip makers do these things. They make them all the same, then those with unstable silicon are sold as a lower clock speed. Not sure I'd expect over 1.5 and that might require higher voltage. Hope I'm wrong. We'll see I guess.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That would be the case if this wasn't an MSM 8660. You're thinking like when AMD makes chips for the HD 6970 and some are found not to be stable at 880 mhz so they bin it to use in the HD 6950 which runs at 800 mhz. These are actually sold as two separate products. In the case of the processor in the Evo it's an MSM 8660 which is sold by qualcomm to be run at speeds as high as 1.5 ghz. If they wanted to sell chips binned for lower speeds they'd have to sell it as a different model since it wouldn't be capable of the 1.5hz.
jersey221 said:
why are people saying such low numbers the second gen snapdragons can go to what 1.9? if ours is 1.5 stock dropped down to 1.2 then i think we can at least hit 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1.9?
No sir it was 1.19stable...
Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk
donatom3 said:
That would be the case if this wasn't an MSM 8660. You're thinking like when AMD makes chips for the HD 6970 and some are found not to be stable at 880 mhz so they bin it to use in the HD 6950 which runs at 800 mhz. These are actually sold as two separate products. In the case of the processor in the Evo it's an MSM 8660 which is sold by qualcomm to be run at speeds as high as 1.5 ghz. If they wanted to sell chips binned for lower speeds they'd have to sell it as a different model since it wouldn't be capable of the 1.5hz.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can you explain this to me please.
toxic and donatom,
Your explanations make perfect sense. So I hope to be wrong. Does qualcomm sell a processor with that same architecture and a lower clock advertised?
Just seems like they're not gonna throw them away if they are stable and 1.2 or 1.4 but less stable at 1.5+. The 3vo seems like a good way for them to unload those processors.
hdad2 said:
toxic and donatom,
Your explanations make perfect sense. So I hope to be wrong. Does qualcomm sell a processor with that same architecture and a lower clock advertised?
Just seems like they're not gonna throw them away if they are stable and 1.2 or 1.4 but less stable at 1.5+. The 3vo seems like a good way for them to unload those processors.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To my knowledge, if this happens it gets recycled. But.....if this happens a lot then they need to change their manufacturing process or that the technology isn't there yet. Like now we have the technology to do 64GB MicroSD, but why do it because most devices can only do 32GB. For the companies that do sell them, well....I don't have good words for them, I also don't know of this happening. I can understand that it could be useful for donations to universities or others that could use them for damn near free prices, but not resold even under a different name.
toxicfumes22 said:
Can you explain this to me please.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well in the case of AMD with many of their chip lines they produce a higher end chip. The ones that don't fully pass the tests at the higher speed get sold as a different model with a lower clock and voltage.
I have the most experience with the HD 6970 and 6950. They both use the same GPU, but the ones in the 6950 didn't pass AMD's tests at higher speeds so they are set at a lower clock and voltage than the 6970 (they also have some shaders disbaled). They are sold as two different models even though they were made the exact same way with the same silicone. This is not new chip manufacturers have been doing this for a while.
Think of it this way I make 100k chips out of those 100k I'm going to have a percentage that can't perform at their top performance, so instead of throwing them away I make a different model and underclock it and still make money on the chips that didn't pass at the higher speed. Now sometimes I will sell more of the lower end model so I actually have to take some chips that probably would have passed as the higher end model and sell them at the lower end. In this case the user gets lucky and can unlock their chip to the performance of the higher priced model.
EDIT: What HTC is doing here is buying a 1.5ghz chip but purposely underclocking it to save battery, since they figured most users wouldn't see the .3 ghz difference but would see the difference in battery life. Again in video cards you see this but usually the other way around. A manufacturer such as Asus, gigabyte, whomever takes the best of their chips they bought and overclocks them because again some were made even better than the standards set by AMD or Nvidia.
I guess what I'm trying to say here is that ALL these chips should do 1.5 ghz stable without question, unless there isn't enough space inside for the cooling requirements at 1.5ghz (which I doubt), and most should easily go above 1.6.
Edit again since I just saw this post:
toxicfumes22 said:
To my knowledge, if this happens it gets recycled. But.....if this happens a lot then they need to change their manufacturing process or that the technology isn't there yet. Like now we have the technology to do 64GB MicroSD, but why do it because most devices can only do 32GB. For the companies that do sell them, well....I don't have good words for them, I also don't know of this happening. I can understand that it could be useful for donations to universities or others that could use them for damn near free prices, but not resold even under a different name.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is something that happens mostly in higher end processors because their tolerances at those speeds are less forgiving. No manufacturing process is perfect, you're going to have some that won't perform at those very high speeds, and recycling would cost more to the company and environment then simply selling them at lower speeds. These chips are not bad, and not defective, just found to not be stable at those highest speeds, but are perfectly fine at the speeds they are being sold at, so why throw them away. If they don't meet the standards at the lower speed then yes they would be recycled.
Related
So I know the evo 3d has a new snappdragon 1.2hz dual-core and I was wondering what does anyone think the overclock potential would be. I'm using a g2 Overclocked to 1.9ghz and I think this would be able to get a lot higher than that. So how high do u think we could get this?
Sent from my HTC Vision using XDA App
Over 9000.
Im not sure, but im sure it would scream at 1.9
Sent from my SGH-T959
Yes, it will be overclockable, this is a feature I and many other developers at HTC can guarantee!
(joking)
Nobody's going to know until the new snapdragons arrive on something first
1.9 would be awesome. I can't get my evo 4g about 1.3...
My first phone I really messed with was the Fuze (It's still my current phone since I am waiting for this beast to come out and make the switch to sprint) and as I would have loved to have it faster, its always been stock speed (Fan of the Energy Rom series). I'm just curious as to what the reason you need a dual-core 1.2GHz processor overclocked? I understand for the wow/bragging reason, but as to serious applications, what is its purpose and how much extra drain on the battery is it (I understand this is a 'rough' estimate).
toxicfumes22 said:
My first phone I really messed with was the Fuze (It's still my current phone since I am waiting for this beast to come out and make the switch to sprint) and as I would have loved to have it faster, its always been stock speed (Fan of the Energy Rom series). I'm just curious as to what the reason you need a dual-core 1.2GHz processor overclocked? I understand for the wow/bragging reason, but as to serious applications, what is its purpose and how much extra drain on the battery is it (I understand this is a 'rough' estimate).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well most of the time you don't really need your phone overclocked that high (i usually have my g2 set to 1.3 to 1.4ghz) but when you really want to get thngs done fast or are playing lots of games that may need sumthing that fast its very usefull. bragging isnt really a reason i did it for even though most people think its crazy. battery drain is one of the things you have to worry about. i use setcpu's profiles to save battery but it still drains battery fast. if you are really worried about battery life im pretty sure they will have some extended bateries seeing how popular this phone is getting.
They tested it at 1.5 to get the latest benchmarks for the gpu so I'm sure it can go higher than that and still be stable.
Sent from my HTC Evo running CM7
Its a 1.5 ghz processor down clocked to 1.2. I am sure it can go well above 1.2.
aimbdd said:
Its a 1.5 ghz processor down clocked to 1.2. I am sure it can go well above 1.2.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
even at 1.5ghz it still would awesome
this makes me sad, haha.
evo 4g, i can get mine to 1.2ghz, above that it random reboots on me.
friends shift 4g that is stock at 800mhz, he has had it OC'd to 1.8ghz.
I read the verizon THunderbolt has been stable at 2ghz, comes 1ghz from HTC.
My laptop when i first bought it was a 1.6ghz single core, spent $25 on ebay and got a dual core 1.8ghz for it and it is way better now. Ofc i bought this thing almost 2 years ago.
I am gonna hate when my phone is a dual core and OC'd to 2+ghz...and i bet the GPU in the Evo3d is better than the "ATI Radeon HD3200" i have in this p.o.s. laptop.
I'll probably overclock it to 1.5ghz. Unless there's a reason HTC is under-clocking to 1.2Ghz. If it affects battery life, i probably won't do it.
I dont think the EVO 3D will need more power. It seems pretty fast already.
Its under clocked at 1.2 the processor is actually a 1.5
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA Premium App
Wish i could find the link but i remember reading someone that had talked to an engineer @ Qualcomm say it will OC to 2Ghz. (which sounds feasible if its a 1.5Ghz chip underclocked to 1.2Ghz). Lets hope we can do that! and that it lasts a whole day lol
karan1203 said:
I'll probably overclock it to 1.5ghz. Unless there's a reason HTC is under-clocking to 1.2Ghz. If it affects battery life, i probably won't do it.
I dont think the EVO 3D will need more power. It seems pretty fast already.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm sure there will be a Kernel to increase battery life...
I have a question about the 3D's dual core that I'd like more clarification on the vague answers I'm getting by searching this site and google. So I've read that the core is asynchronous so basically meaning the second core doesn't do much work unless needed as others like the tegra 2 and exynos have both cores running or something similar to that, and that this is affecting the benchmark scores. I also read that one would basically double the score of the 3D to get a more accurate reading. Can anyone confirm or further explain this?
Yes, asynchronous is when something operates on another thread whereas the main thread is still available for operating. This allows for better performance in terms of managing tasks. Now just because it doesn't score high on a benchmark, it doesn't mean it is going to perform. Also this allows for better performance for the battery.
I haven't slept for the past 12 hours so if this doesn't help you, just let me know and I will fully elaborate on how the processor will operate on the phone. Now time for bed :'(
In short, asynchronous operation means that a process operates independently of other processes.
Think of transferring a file. A separate thread will utilized for doing so. You will then be able to do background things such as playing with the UI, such as Sense since you will be using the main thread. If anything were to happen to the transferring file (such as it failing), you will be able to cancel it because it is independent on another thread.
I hope this makes sense man, kind of tired. Now I'm really going to bed.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
To be more specific by asynchronous they mean that each core can run at different clock speeds. Core 1 could be at 1.2 ghz while core 2 is at 200 mhz. Most multi core processors are synchronous meaning all the cores are running at the same speed.
donatom3 said:
To be more specific by asynchronous they mean that each core can run at different clock speeds. Core 1 could be at 1.2 ghz while core 2 is at 200 mhz. Most multi core processors are synchronous meaning all the cores are running at the same speed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
^This too
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
I was also very curious to learn a little more about the async cores and how it differes from a standard "Always-On" dual core arctechiure.
Thh first page/video I found talks about the SnapDragon core specifically.
http://socialtimes.com/dual-core-snapdragon-processor-qualcomm-soundbytes_b49063
From what I've gathered, it comes down to using the second core and thus more power, only when needed. Minimizing voltage and heat to preserve battery life.
The following video goes into similar and slightly deeper detail about the processor specifically found in the EVO 3D. The demo is running a processor benchmark with a visual real time usage of the two cores. You can briefly see how the two cores are trading off the workload between each other. It was previously mentioned somewhere else on this forum, but I believe by seperating a workload between two chips, the chip will use less power across the two chips vs putting the same workload on a sinlge chip. I'm sure someone else will chime in with some additional detail. Also, after seeing some of these demos, I'm inclined to think that the processor found in the EVO 3D is actually stable at 1.5 but has been underclocked to 1.2 to conserve battery. Only time spent within our hands will tell.
Another demo of the MSM8660 and Adreno 220 GPU found in the EVO 3D. Its crazy to think we've come this far for mobile phone technology.
What occurred to me is how complex Community ROMs for such a device may become with the addition of Video Drivers that may continue to be upgraded and improved (think early Video Card tweaks for PC). Wondering how easy/difficult it will be to get our hands on them, possibly through extraction of updated stock ROMs.
EDIT: As far as benchmarks are concerned, I blame the inability of today's bench marking apps to consider async cores or properly utilize them during testing to factor the over all score. Because the current tests are most likely to be spread across cores which favors efficiency, the scores are going to be much lower than what the true power and performance of the chips can produce. I think of it as putting a horsepower governor on a Ferrari.
thanks for the explanation everyone
The best demonstration is in the first video posted, notice when Charbax looks at the monitor. There on the top right are the frequencies of the two cores, and you'll notice the both of them jumping around a lot, independent of the other. Using the cores "on-demand" only when needed ends up saving a lot of battery power, but doesn't give you any performance loss.
Harfainx said:
The best demonstration is in the first video posted, notice when Charbax looks at the monitor. There on the top right are the frequencies of the two cores, and you'll notice the both of them jumping around a lot, independent of the other. Using the cores "on-demand" only when needed ends up saving a lot of battery power, but doesn't give you any performance loss.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually I was thinking that not just the battery savings but there could be a performance gain. Think of this if the manufacturer knows they only have to clock one core up to speed when needed they can be more aggressive about their timings and have the core clock up faster than a normal dual core would since they know they don't have to clock up both processors when only one needs the full speed.
I wonder if the drop to 1.2 GHz also serves to keep heat under control. It might not just be battery savings, maybe the small case of a phone doesn't allow for proper cooling to hit 1.5 safely.
I'd love to see some confirmation that the asynchronous nature of this chipset is what's responsible for the seemingly lackluster benchmarking.
mevensen said:
I wonder if the drop to 1.2 GHz also serves to keep heat under control. It might not just be battery savings, maybe the small case of a phone doesn't allow for proper cooling to hit 1.5 safely.
I'd love to see some confirmation that the asynchronous nature of this chipset is what's responsible for the seemingly lackluster benchmarking.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The "horrible" benchmark scores are simply due to the tests inability to consider async core performance. Wait till the tests are able to take this into consideration.
Sent from my HERO200 using XDA Premium App
RVDigital said:
The "horrible" benchmark scores are simply due to the tests inability to consider async core performance. Wait till the tests are able to take this into consideration.
Sent from my HERO200 using XDA Premium App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I went through all of your links, I didn't see anything that confirms that the benches are somehow affected by the asynchronous nature of the chipset. It's not that I don't believe you, I actually had that same theory when the benches first came out. I just don't have any proof or explanation of it. Do you have a link that provides more solid evidence that this is the case?
NVIDIA actually tells a different story (of course)
http://www.intomobile.com/2011/03/24/nvidia-tegra-2-outperforms-qualcomm-dualcore-1015/
AnandTech's article does explain some of the differences
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4144/...gra-2-review-the-first-dual-core-smartphone/4
It appears that Snapdragon (Scorpion) will excel in some tasks (FPU, non-bandwith constrained applications), but will fall short in others .
I'm pretty sure none of the benchmark apps have even been updated past the release of the sensation so yeah....How could they update the app to use the asynchronus processors the if the only phones to use them have only recently been released.
Sent from my zombified gingerbread hero using XDA Premium App
I had the G2x for like 3 days and never got to root. Poor service where I live. But could the cores be set to a specific frequency independently when rooted like computers?
tyarbro13 said:
I had the G2x for like 3 days and never got to root. Poor service where I live. But could the cores be set to a specific frequency independently when rooted like computers?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yea, if someone were to develop an app for that. I do not see why not.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
Hmm...
If a program such as Smart bench (which takes advantage of dual cores) is stressing both cores to 1.2ghz then regardless of if both cores are active or not the bench will be accurate.
I would rather NOT have asyncronus cores as there would be lag during frequency changes...
Ex:
2 cores running at 500mhz vs 1 core @ 1ghz and other not active.
The 2 cores will produce less heat and use less energy...
Maedhros said:
Hmm...
If a program such as Smart bench (which takes advantage of dual cores) is stressing both cores to 1.2ghz then regardless of if both cores are active or not the bench will be accurate.
I would rather NOT have asyncronus cores as there would be lag during frequency changes...
Ex:
2 cores running at 500mhz vs 1 core @ 1ghz and other not active.
The 2 cores will produce less heat and use less energy...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There dual, it would be better for them to run asynchronous. Not only that, but it is a phone so there will be no lag between frequency changing. 2 Cores running at 500mhz will perform better than 1 core at 1ghz.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
tyarbro13 said:
I had the G2x for like 3 days and never got to root. Poor service where I live. But could the cores be set to a specific frequency independently when rooted like computers?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is something that the hardware needs to be capable of. Software can only do so much. As far as I've seen Tegra isn't capable of it.
I read the anandtech article and I came with conclusion that everyday task you might not see the difference between the two and while tegra2 might bench higher. The main thing people dont talk about is the GPU. Adreno 220 is a powerhouse GPU, it will probably stand strong when tegra 3 comes out.
DDiaz007 said:
There dual, it would be better for them to run asynchronous. Not only that, but it is a phone so there will be no lag between frequency changing. 2 Cores running at 500mhz will perform better than 1 core at 1ghz.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Huh... what are u saying? Sorry dont understand... On one hand you say asynchronous is better and on the other ur saying 2 cores @ 500 will work better?
nkd said:
I read the anandtech article and I came with conclusion that everyday task you might not see the difference between the two and while tegra2 might bench higher. The main thing people dont talk about is the GPU. Adreno 220 is a powerhouse GPU, it will probably stand strong when tegra 3 comes out.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What?!?
Andreno 220 is a horrible GPU. AT BEST it is equal to the GPU in the Original SGS.
The reason benches are so different is because Qualcomm has made NO improvements in the CPU. Desire HD CPU is the same as Sensations. While... SGS2 + Tegra have IMPROVED CPUs.
Arm 7 vs arm 9?
Maedhros said:
Huh... what are u saying? Sorry dont understand... On one hand you say asynchronous is better and on the other ur saying 2 cores @ 500 will work better?
What?!?
Andreno 220 is a horrible GPU. AT BEST it is equal to the GPU in the Original SGS.
The reason benches are so different is because Qualcomm has made NO improvements in the CPU. Desire HD CPU is the same as Sensations. While... SGS2 + Tegra have IMPROVED CPUs.
Arm 7 vs arm 9?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dude go back to sleep. You have no clue what you are talking about.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA Premium App
Simple question. Is the 3VO's processor really 1.5 ghz underclocked to 1.2? I had seen this information floating around, but none of my searches are able to find anything firmly confirming or denying this.
Thanks
That's what I've also heard, however I still can't find anything to confirm or deny.
Nobody knows, eh?
Yes it is underclocked.
Appreciate my help? Thank me
DDiaz007 said:
Yes it is underclocked.
Appreciate my help? Thank me
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sources????
You can't be serious? This has been discussed and answered dozens of times... Google MSM8660..
Appreciate my help? Thank me
DDiaz007 said:
You can't be serious? This has been discussed and answered dozens of times... Google MSM8660..
Appreciate my help? Thank me
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That doesn't help, the MSM8660 comes in a 1.2 Ghz and a 1.5 Ghz variant.
poweroutlet said:
That doesn't help, the MSM8660 comes in a 1.2 Ghz and a 1.5 Ghz variant.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
........
Appreciate my help? Thank me
It comes in two different factory clocks, which is what you said.. One is lower than the other because of manufacturer requests and the it being pointless to have 1.5 on a phone. If I were to pull the CPU's supported frequencies, it will say it supports 1512000, which is 1.5Ghz. The 8672 comes factory clocked at 1.5Ghz... They are all the same SoC, but with different applications. Such as one being CDMA support other being GSM. The ones that come in 1.2Ghz is because it is being used on a phone. If it were a tablet, or netbook, the clock would be 1.5Ghz which would be the 8672 or 8660..
Rest assured that 1.5Ghz is a frequency supported for the 8660...
In the end, they are the same SoC, running the same architecture. There is nothing different from the MSM 8260, 8660 and 8672 (which is cancelled). They are all under the 45nm process also.
Appreciate my help? Thank me
DDiaz007 said:
It comes in two different factory clocks, which is what you said.. One is lower than the other because of manufacturer requests and the it being pointless to have 1.5 on a phone. If I were to pull the CPU's supported frequencies, it will say it supports 1512000, which is 1.5Ghz. The 8672 comes factory clocked at 1.5Ghz... They are all the same SoC, but with different applications. Such as one being CDMA support of GSM. The ones that come in 1.2Ghz is because it is being used on a phone. If it were a tablet, or netbook, the clock would be 1.5Ghz
Appreciate my help? Thank me
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Too bad you can't be sure of that. That MAY be the case, but it may also be the case that the 1.2 MSM8660s are the lower binned chips and the 1.5 are the higher binned units. This is done all the time in the CPU world. Someone gave an example here of how AMD sold the Barton 2500+ CPU which was really just a lower binned 3200+, a CPU that was far more expensive.
Your point that they are all the same SOC is not relevant, Intel and AMD for example have sold many processors which are all identical in architecture and every spec down to TDP, and the only difference is the frequency. It is just that the higher binned chips become the higher speced CPUs and the lower binned ones become the lower end ones. This doesn't mean that a lower binned CPU can't exceed its specification but it does mean that its likely that the higher binned CPU can go even higher. In any case, they are certainly not equal.
Just because they are the same SOC, does not mean you can assume that the 1.2 and 1.5 Ghz units are the same. That's like assuming the Intel Pentium 4 2.4C and the 3.0C are the same. They are the exact same CPU, same architecture, same cache, FSB, etc except one is clocked a bit higher and is of a higher bin. The 3.0C was the superior unit (Higher bin, better ability to overclock, etc).
My point is, we don't actually know if Qualcomm is giving us simply downclocked versions of the 1.5 or if our 1.2s are just lower binned 1.5s. The latter would make more sense for them in terms of profits, therefore its not surprising that this is a common practice in the industry.
poweroutlet said:
Too bad you can't be sure of that. That MAY be the case, but it may also be the case that the 1.2 MSM8660s are the lower binned chips and the 1.5 are the higher binned units. This is done all the time in the CPU world. Someone gave an example here of how AMD sold the Barton 2500+ CPU which was really just a lower binned 3200+, a CPU that was far more expensive.
Your point that they are all the same SOC is not relevant, Intel and AMD for example have sold many processors which are all identical in architecture and every spec down to TDP, and the only difference is the frequency. It is just that the higher binned chips become the higher speced CPUs and the lower binned ones become the lower end ones. This doesn't mean that a lower binned CPU can't exceed its specification but it does mean that its likely that the higher binned CPU can go even higher. In any case, they are certainly not equal.
Just because they are the same SOC, does not mean you can assume that the 1.2 and 1.5 Ghz units are the same. That's like assuming the Intel Pentium 4 2.4C and the 3.0C are the same. They are the exact same CPU, same architecture, same cache, FSB, etc except one is clocked a bit higher and is of a higher bin. The 3.0C was the superior unit (Higher bin, better ability to overclock, etc).
My point is, we don't actually know if Qualcomm is giving us simply downclocked versions of the 1.5 or if our 1.2s are just lower binned 1.5s. The latter would make more sense for them in terms of profits, its not surprise that this is a common practice in the industry.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I see what you are talking about.. I forgot about bins. I know for it on PC's, but didn't think much of it for a smartphone.
Appreciate my help? Thank me
I'm going to say you may be right about the bins. There are some people on here who can't reach past 1.5 for the life of god.
Appreciate my help? Thank me
DDiaz007 said:
I see what you are talking about.. I forgot about bins. I know for it on PC's, but didn't think much of it for a smartphone.
Appreciate my help? Thank me
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, regardless though, our CPUs are already doing 1.8 stable and maybe even higher, that's plenty fast for me so I don't really care if the 1.5s are even better at clocking (well I might care if I start seeing the 1.5 phones breaking 2 Ghz haha).
poweroutlet said:
Yeah, regardless though, our CPUs are already doing 1.8 stable and maybe even higher, that's plenty fast for me so I don't really care if the 1.5s are even better at clocking (well I might care if I start seeing the 1.5 phones breaking 2 Ghz haha).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yea me too
Appreciate my help? Thank me
You've been thanked for reminding me of the bins. Not once did that come into mind.
#fail
Appreciate my help? Thank me
DDiaz007 said:
You've been thanked for reminding me of the bins. Not once did that come into mind.
#fail
Appreciate my help? Thank me
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No worries man.
These are super limited. They were released on the 20th on the HP site at $599 then pulled before they sold many. I am not sure why they did this. Maybe they will relist them when the last wave of HP Touchpads go for sale.
Aside from it being 1.5 GHz and having 64 GB of space, what differences are there? Think it is a higher binned CPU? Maybe it will hit 1.9 GHz easily. Perhaps it even has better cooling since it is clocked higher. I also wonder if the PCB is different. Maybe it has a USB powered 4G "slot" somewhere on it. That would be a fun mod to give the tablet a USB port with a little soldering. Hopefully they used the same PCB as the 4G version.
I get mine Tuesday. Anyone else here get one and willing to disassemble?
If you are wondering what the hell I am talking about, you can refer to the post on SD that points to a site where 200 were sold.
slickdeals.net/forums/showthread.php?t=3236371
wow, white would look amazing! is the digitizer white aswell? your lucky dude! does it have 3g?
No, my understanding is that it's the same SoC as the 16/32gb version. The same thing was going to happen for the HSPA+ AT&T version.
http://forums.precentral.net/hp-touchpad/287396-tps-apq8060-cpu-ment-clocked-1-5ghz.html
This is why OC'ing to 1.5ghz is virtually danger free.
jmhalder said:
No, my understanding is that it's the same SoC as the 16/32gb version. The same thing was going to happen for the HSPA+ AT&T version.
http://forums.precentral.net/hp-touchpad/287396-tps-apq8060-cpu-ment-clocked-1-5ghz.html
This is why OC'ing to 1.5ghz is virtually danger free.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1.7 should be virtually risk free as well.
Dual core Scorpions have a baseline of 1.2Ghz and a max of 1.5Ghz. Anything above 1.5Ghz is a risk.
wrong the 1.2 on our cpu is under clocked. 1.5 is normal and 1.7 is a super easy 200mhz OC
tazzmissionx said:
Dual core Scorpions have a baseline of 1.2Ghz and a max of 1.5Ghz. Anything above 1.5Ghz is a risk.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
While that may be true for some chips, its obviously not true here. No manufacturer will release a chip and use it to its max potential right off the bat. Not only is that dangerous (overheat/melting/high failure rates), but not good business sense.
All newer smartphones/tablets, especially ones running The snapdragon chip and the tegra 2 chip are ALL underclocked slightly.
In our case, HP UNDERclocked our chip. Normally it sees duty running @ 1.5ghz (as in the white TP), but they chose to run it at 1.2ghz in ours. Thats why its deemed safe to "overclock" our TP to 1.5ghz, and some like me, clock it @ 1.712.
sanvara said:
1.7 should be virtually risk free as well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
its possible for HP to be binning the CPUs for the 1.5ghz
(like how AMD bins the quad core CPUs. if it doesn't make the cut, disable that core and sell it as tri-core CPU)
paperWastage said:
its possible for HP to be binning the CPUs for the 1.5ghz
(like how AMD bins the quad core CPUs. if it doesn't make the cut, disable that core and sell it as tri-core CPU)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
doubt it, they wouldnt go through all that trouble..
Well, I started using it today. So far I have logging off, dev mode on, preware installed. I am not going to change the kernel because for all I know it bricks the 64GB versions. I think I will hold out until overclocking is as simple as an app like with the hd2.
If anyone has any specific questions or things that I can look up, please ask.
I've got a question - what on earth possesses someone to spend four times as much money to get a device that is a different color and comes with $10 more worth of storage?
;-)
Has anyone tried the kernel from the 64gb to the 16/32gb models?
Official speed up?
Just so I can say I have one of the super rare white ones. TBH, I tried getting the other ones and was out of luck. I was on vacation Friday-Sunday that weekend. I placed orders on Sunday night and this was the only one to go through. I was on them the second they were posted on SD. 260 shipped for a tablet that hardware wise is better than the Ipad 2 64GB is a good deal in my book. Right now it sucks for apps, but I am sure the android port will fix that within the next 6 months.
Supposedly someone has overclocked it. Go to page 41 on that thread I linked on my first post here. Someone claims to have overclocked it to 1.92 causing it to lockup. 1.7 seems stable. I guess that is no different than the 16 and 32.
Crucible1001 said:
Well, I started using it today. So far I have logging off, dev mode on, preware installed. I am not going to change the kernel because for all I know it bricks the 64GB versions. I think I will hold out until overclocking is as simple as an app like with the hd2.
If anyone has any specific questions or things that I can look up, please ask.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The touchpads are all the same except for the obvious 64 GB of space and the white shell.
Then what allowing the 64gb model to run at the stock clock and the rest running underclocked?
bigsnack said:
Then what allowing the 64gb model to run at the stock clock and the rest running underclocked?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Frequency HP let them run at? 1.5 GHz is stock clocks for our processor. Which is why everyone can "OC" to it so easily. HP underclocked for battery/heat reasons.
1.84Ghz ****ers!
Nburnes said:
Frequency HP let them run at? 1.5 GHz is stock clocks for our processor. Which is why everyone can "OC" to it so easily. HP underclocked for battery/heat reasons.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So, then its not like in the kernel or anything HP programmed to make the 64gb run at the stock clock? Dang ya'll.
}{Alienz}{ said:
1.84Ghz ****ers!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Same, just more politely .
You may want to sell this baby. I saw one on ebay that had a ending bid of $820.... a couple of days ago there was one that sold for $520.
I have used the cpu5.sh script to overclock the prime to 1.6Ghz, and benchmark shows a good improvement. I started streaming a 720P movie, mkv format, and everything played perfect but after only 5minutes the whole aluminum frame started to heat up noticeably . So I suggest waiting for some tested overclocked rom's before overclocking to be sure you don't blow it up.
You cant say it is the CPU tweak.
1.5 & 1.6 are built into this CPU. So, technically, your not "over clocking" as your not taking this chip beyond it's design spec. It is a 1.6 capable chip.
Moto did the same thing in the first Droid. They sent the phone out "under clocked" and then later did an update and gave users a claimed speed boost, but all they did was ope up the chip to it's full capable speed & sold it as a speed improvement. That is all that has been done here, we just beat Asus to it.
Lock-N-Load said:
You cant say it is the CPU tweak.
1.5 & 1.6 are built into this CPU. So, technically, your not "over clocking" as your not taking this chip beyond it's design spec. It is a 1.6 capable chip.
Moto did the same thing in the first Droid. They sent the phone out "under clocked" and then later did an update and gave users a claimed speed boost, but all they did was ope up the chip to it's full capable speed & sold it as a speed improvement. That is all that has been done here, we just beat Asus to it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're looking at it way to simple. The fact that the tegra3 chip is capable of running at higher speed, does not mean that in the Prime it is designed to do so.
Not saying you can't run at those speeds, but at extreme conditions (warm weather) , it could be a problem.
Yeah, I don't buy into that the "Prime is not designed to" argument nor that it is the proven issue here for what I said and given the CPU tweak he is talking about does not ramp all cores so I can't see an issue that would cause one to fret... but we can agree to disagree.
What the OP should have done was use CPU Spy and look and see for how long and IF he was even using 1.5 or 1.6 speeds.
Hey - I do think we need to be careful using these tweaks and things should be watched, but give the chip is 1.6 capable, I fully believe the Prime and the cpu's can take it just fine. And either way, this is not "over clocking" technically speaking.
I would imagine (could be wrong) that this chip has overheat and quite possibly overvolt protection. Almost every chip in the last 6-8 years has had this. I remeber turning my athlon x2 on with no heatsink and it actually stayed on for about 10 minutes before turning off. Even at 1.3-1.4 it can overheat. Infact the small overclock will be minimal on heat gain until additional voltage is applied. I would be suprised.if this overclock heated this chip up more than 5 c vs stock.
Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk
benefit14snake said:
I would imagine (could be wrong) that this chip has overheat and quite possibly overvolt protection. Almost every chip in the last 6-8 years has had this. I remeber turning my athlon x2 on with no heatsink and it actually stayed on for about 10 minutes before turning off. Even at 1.3-1.4 it can overheat. Infact the small overclock will be minimal on heat gain until additional voltage is applied. I would be suprised.if this overclock heated this chip up more than 5 c vs stock.
Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
IT DOES. Viperboy already confirmed this while looking around in the kernel or whatever. He posted that response in his thread in developement section. IT HAS a failsafe mechanism. I would love to know more details about it though.
PLUS what op said could be said about stock also. THE PRIME BACKPLATE GETS hot in regular performance mode. PLUS I've ran the "Real True" Overclocking. That's the combination of viperboy control mod n system tuner where all 4 cores are maxed out to 1.6Ghz. VIPERBOY control mod alone doesn't do that. PRIME runs fine n does get hot sometimes. It depends on what you doing. PLUS its always good to have a battery temperature widget so you always see the temp. IF CPU is working like crazy. You will see the battery temp go up alot. PRIME was actually designed with 1.6ghz in mind. THats why its part of the kernel. ALL ASUS did was disable it for battery longevity purposes.
Regarding the 1.6Ghz and cpuspy I had just reset the timer before I started streaming and afterwords it showed it had used 99% of the time at 1.6Ghz
Sendt from my Transformer Prime TF201 with Tapatalk
Guys, look up "speed binning". Not every CPU is capable of max speed.
tinky1 said:
Guys, look up "speed binning". Not every CPU is capable of max speed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://www.pcpitstop.com/news/maxpc/overclock.asp
I read it. Long story short, Tegra3 can easily handle it. Its all about money. WHY would Asus/Nvidia release its first quad core device already maxed out? They want people to be more hyped up down the road when they easily enable the 1.6ghz on future devices, which will have the exact same tegra3 chip in them. Prime was their testing device for future speed increases down the road on future devices. Another reason theybdidnt enable it was because tl promote battery longevity. IF IT wasn't possible or supported or tested already, it wouldn't be in the kernel for us to easily enable it with root access.
If speed binning was an issue most people would need additional voltage to get to 1.6ghz. While this may be the case i in my experiences (HUGE PC overclocker) dont believe this to be the case. I have personally achieved a 1.8 to 3.4ghz overclock on -25c temps. So i have a bit of experience.
Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk
I posted this in another thread, but the Lenovo tablet running the Tegra 3, shown at CES, is being advertised as running at 1.6ghz.
No worries about running at that speed. Once the bootloader is opened up, I'd feel perfectly fine running at 2.0ghz myself.
Sent from my cellular telephone using magic