I have a question about the 3D's dual core that I'd like more clarification on the vague answers I'm getting by searching this site and google. So I've read that the core is asynchronous so basically meaning the second core doesn't do much work unless needed as others like the tegra 2 and exynos have both cores running or something similar to that, and that this is affecting the benchmark scores. I also read that one would basically double the score of the 3D to get a more accurate reading. Can anyone confirm or further explain this?
Yes, asynchronous is when something operates on another thread whereas the main thread is still available for operating. This allows for better performance in terms of managing tasks. Now just because it doesn't score high on a benchmark, it doesn't mean it is going to perform. Also this allows for better performance for the battery.
I haven't slept for the past 12 hours so if this doesn't help you, just let me know and I will fully elaborate on how the processor will operate on the phone. Now time for bed :'(
In short, asynchronous operation means that a process operates independently of other processes.
Think of transferring a file. A separate thread will utilized for doing so. You will then be able to do background things such as playing with the UI, such as Sense since you will be using the main thread. If anything were to happen to the transferring file (such as it failing), you will be able to cancel it because it is independent on another thread.
I hope this makes sense man, kind of tired. Now I'm really going to bed.
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To be more specific by asynchronous they mean that each core can run at different clock speeds. Core 1 could be at 1.2 ghz while core 2 is at 200 mhz. Most multi core processors are synchronous meaning all the cores are running at the same speed.
donatom3 said:
To be more specific by asynchronous they mean that each core can run at different clock speeds. Core 1 could be at 1.2 ghz while core 2 is at 200 mhz. Most multi core processors are synchronous meaning all the cores are running at the same speed.
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^This too
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I was also very curious to learn a little more about the async cores and how it differes from a standard "Always-On" dual core arctechiure.
Thh first page/video I found talks about the SnapDragon core specifically.
http://socialtimes.com/dual-core-snapdragon-processor-qualcomm-soundbytes_b49063
From what I've gathered, it comes down to using the second core and thus more power, only when needed. Minimizing voltage and heat to preserve battery life.
The following video goes into similar and slightly deeper detail about the processor specifically found in the EVO 3D. The demo is running a processor benchmark with a visual real time usage of the two cores. You can briefly see how the two cores are trading off the workload between each other. It was previously mentioned somewhere else on this forum, but I believe by seperating a workload between two chips, the chip will use less power across the two chips vs putting the same workload on a sinlge chip. I'm sure someone else will chime in with some additional detail. Also, after seeing some of these demos, I'm inclined to think that the processor found in the EVO 3D is actually stable at 1.5 but has been underclocked to 1.2 to conserve battery. Only time spent within our hands will tell.
Another demo of the MSM8660 and Adreno 220 GPU found in the EVO 3D. Its crazy to think we've come this far for mobile phone technology.
What occurred to me is how complex Community ROMs for such a device may become with the addition of Video Drivers that may continue to be upgraded and improved (think early Video Card tweaks for PC). Wondering how easy/difficult it will be to get our hands on them, possibly through extraction of updated stock ROMs.
EDIT: As far as benchmarks are concerned, I blame the inability of today's bench marking apps to consider async cores or properly utilize them during testing to factor the over all score. Because the current tests are most likely to be spread across cores which favors efficiency, the scores are going to be much lower than what the true power and performance of the chips can produce. I think of it as putting a horsepower governor on a Ferrari.
thanks for the explanation everyone
The best demonstration is in the first video posted, notice when Charbax looks at the monitor. There on the top right are the frequencies of the two cores, and you'll notice the both of them jumping around a lot, independent of the other. Using the cores "on-demand" only when needed ends up saving a lot of battery power, but doesn't give you any performance loss.
Harfainx said:
The best demonstration is in the first video posted, notice when Charbax looks at the monitor. There on the top right are the frequencies of the two cores, and you'll notice the both of them jumping around a lot, independent of the other. Using the cores "on-demand" only when needed ends up saving a lot of battery power, but doesn't give you any performance loss.
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Actually I was thinking that not just the battery savings but there could be a performance gain. Think of this if the manufacturer knows they only have to clock one core up to speed when needed they can be more aggressive about their timings and have the core clock up faster than a normal dual core would since they know they don't have to clock up both processors when only one needs the full speed.
I wonder if the drop to 1.2 GHz also serves to keep heat under control. It might not just be battery savings, maybe the small case of a phone doesn't allow for proper cooling to hit 1.5 safely.
I'd love to see some confirmation that the asynchronous nature of this chipset is what's responsible for the seemingly lackluster benchmarking.
mevensen said:
I wonder if the drop to 1.2 GHz also serves to keep heat under control. It might not just be battery savings, maybe the small case of a phone doesn't allow for proper cooling to hit 1.5 safely.
I'd love to see some confirmation that the asynchronous nature of this chipset is what's responsible for the seemingly lackluster benchmarking.
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The "horrible" benchmark scores are simply due to the tests inability to consider async core performance. Wait till the tests are able to take this into consideration.
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RVDigital said:
The "horrible" benchmark scores are simply due to the tests inability to consider async core performance. Wait till the tests are able to take this into consideration.
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I went through all of your links, I didn't see anything that confirms that the benches are somehow affected by the asynchronous nature of the chipset. It's not that I don't believe you, I actually had that same theory when the benches first came out. I just don't have any proof or explanation of it. Do you have a link that provides more solid evidence that this is the case?
NVIDIA actually tells a different story (of course)
http://www.intomobile.com/2011/03/24/nvidia-tegra-2-outperforms-qualcomm-dualcore-1015/
AnandTech's article does explain some of the differences
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4144/...gra-2-review-the-first-dual-core-smartphone/4
It appears that Snapdragon (Scorpion) will excel in some tasks (FPU, non-bandwith constrained applications), but will fall short in others .
I'm pretty sure none of the benchmark apps have even been updated past the release of the sensation so yeah....How could they update the app to use the asynchronus processors the if the only phones to use them have only recently been released.
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I had the G2x for like 3 days and never got to root. Poor service where I live. But could the cores be set to a specific frequency independently when rooted like computers?
tyarbro13 said:
I had the G2x for like 3 days and never got to root. Poor service where I live. But could the cores be set to a specific frequency independently when rooted like computers?
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Yea, if someone were to develop an app for that. I do not see why not.
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Hmm...
If a program such as Smart bench (which takes advantage of dual cores) is stressing both cores to 1.2ghz then regardless of if both cores are active or not the bench will be accurate.
I would rather NOT have asyncronus cores as there would be lag during frequency changes...
Ex:
2 cores running at 500mhz vs 1 core @ 1ghz and other not active.
The 2 cores will produce less heat and use less energy...
Maedhros said:
Hmm...
If a program such as Smart bench (which takes advantage of dual cores) is stressing both cores to 1.2ghz then regardless of if both cores are active or not the bench will be accurate.
I would rather NOT have asyncronus cores as there would be lag during frequency changes...
Ex:
2 cores running at 500mhz vs 1 core @ 1ghz and other not active.
The 2 cores will produce less heat and use less energy...
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There dual, it would be better for them to run asynchronous. Not only that, but it is a phone so there will be no lag between frequency changing. 2 Cores running at 500mhz will perform better than 1 core at 1ghz.
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tyarbro13 said:
I had the G2x for like 3 days and never got to root. Poor service where I live. But could the cores be set to a specific frequency independently when rooted like computers?
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This is something that the hardware needs to be capable of. Software can only do so much. As far as I've seen Tegra isn't capable of it.
I read the anandtech article and I came with conclusion that everyday task you might not see the difference between the two and while tegra2 might bench higher. The main thing people dont talk about is the GPU. Adreno 220 is a powerhouse GPU, it will probably stand strong when tegra 3 comes out.
DDiaz007 said:
There dual, it would be better for them to run asynchronous. Not only that, but it is a phone so there will be no lag between frequency changing. 2 Cores running at 500mhz will perform better than 1 core at 1ghz.
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Huh... what are u saying? Sorry dont understand... On one hand you say asynchronous is better and on the other ur saying 2 cores @ 500 will work better?
nkd said:
I read the anandtech article and I came with conclusion that everyday task you might not see the difference between the two and while tegra2 might bench higher. The main thing people dont talk about is the GPU. Adreno 220 is a powerhouse GPU, it will probably stand strong when tegra 3 comes out.
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What?!?
Andreno 220 is a horrible GPU. AT BEST it is equal to the GPU in the Original SGS.
The reason benches are so different is because Qualcomm has made NO improvements in the CPU. Desire HD CPU is the same as Sensations. While... SGS2 + Tegra have IMPROVED CPUs.
Arm 7 vs arm 9?
Maedhros said:
Huh... what are u saying? Sorry dont understand... On one hand you say asynchronous is better and on the other ur saying 2 cores @ 500 will work better?
What?!?
Andreno 220 is a horrible GPU. AT BEST it is equal to the GPU in the Original SGS.
The reason benches are so different is because Qualcomm has made NO improvements in the CPU. Desire HD CPU is the same as Sensations. While... SGS2 + Tegra have IMPROVED CPUs.
Arm 7 vs arm 9?
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Dude go back to sleep. You have no clue what you are talking about.
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Related
How high do you think we can clock the processors on the EVO 3D? I recall they are 1.5 ghz chips underclocked to conserve battery life. Think these can hit that magical 2.0? Or at least 1.8?
I could see maybe 1.6 but honestly nothing over 1.4ghz is worth it... (batter>speed)
And nothing currently requires anything over 1.2ghz or 1.5ghz for that matter, other than peoples e-penis.
Id like to see a 1.4ghz uv kernel over 1.8ghz 1 hour battery killer but I will use and test all of them
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nate420 said:
I could see maybe 1.6 but honestly nothing over 1.4ghz is worth it... (batter>speed)
And nothing currently requires anything over 1.2ghz or 1.5ghz for that matter, other than peoples e-penis.
Id like to see a 1.4ghz uv kernel over 1.8ghz 1 hour battery killer but I will use and test all of them
sent from anything but an iPhone
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Well that's your opinion. I highly doubt a overclocking the processor to 1.8 would bring the phone down to one hour of battery life. It's not like it would be constantly running at that speed. I would prefer speed over battery life as I charge my phone every night and have plenty left over even overclocked to almost 1.3 on my EVO.
nate420 said:
I could see maybe 1.6 but honestly nothing over 1.4ghz is worth it... (batter>speed)
And nothing currently requires anything over 1.2ghz or 1.5ghz for that matter, other than peoples e-penis.
Id like to see a 1.4ghz uv kernel over 1.8ghz 1 hour battery killer but I will use and test all of them
sent from anything but an iPhone
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I think this is less about practicality and more about pushing our phone to the limits. overclocking on an already fast enough processor on a device which runs for the most part on battery, is not needed. however it is fun and nice to see the benchmarks soar.
I say 1.8ghz-2ghz
If they're anything like the EVO 4G, then it wont be a very high overclock
But assuming all are capable of 1.5 GHz, then it would be at least a 400-450 MHz overclock!
freeza said:
If they're anything like the EVO 4G, then it wont be a very high overclock
But assuming all are capable of 1.5 GHz, then it would be at least a 400-450 MHz overclock!
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My g2x was overclocked to 1.6ghz and its only a 1ghz dual core phone...
Id say we could see maybe 1.8ghz if this phone is really 1.5 dropped down to 1.2
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fmedina2 said:
Well that's your opinion. I highly doubt a overclocking the processor to 1.8 would bring the phone down to one hour of battery life. It's not like it would be constantly running at that speed. I would prefer speed over battery life as I charge my phone every night and have plenty left over even overclocked to almost 1.3 on my EVO.
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Again for e-penis and bragging rights on benchmarks nothing more...
As for saying 1.8 oc would kill it in a hour I was joking...
And I bet dollars to donuts you don't see a change in "speed" past 1.6ghz other than a hot battery.
Ginger bread can't fully optimize dual cores it does the job but untill a new os is out
no point ruining a battery for "speed" you won't see
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While performance is key, I'd say this phone is well above the bar of expectations for most Android Apps at the current time. I'm more interested in squeezing the most battery life I possibly can via Underclocking. It will be nice to see how far this can be pushed with Two Cores to spread the workload across.
nate420 said:
I could see maybe 1.6 but honestly nothing over 1.4ghz is worth it... (batter>speed)
And nothing currently requires anything over 1.2ghz or 1.5ghz for that matter, other than peoples e-penis.
Id like to see a 1.4ghz uv kernel over 1.8ghz 1 hour battery killer but I will use and test all of them
sent from anything but an iPhone
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btw the way i have the bigest e penis lol it is googolplex inchs
why are people saying such low numbers the second gen snapdragons can go to what 1.9? if ours is 1.5 stock dropped down to 1.2 then i think we can at least hit 2
I'd bet that the chips in these phones will be those that were unstable at 1.5 ghz. That's how chip makers do these things. They make them all the same, then those with unstable silicon are sold as a lower clock speed. Not sure I'd expect over 1.5 and that might require higher voltage. Hope I'm wrong. We'll see I guess.
hdad2 said:
I'd bet that the chips in these phones will be those that were unstable at 1.5 ghz. That's how chip makers do these things. They make them all the same, then those with unstable silicon are sold as a lower clock speed. Not sure I'd expect over 1.5 and that might require higher voltage. Hope I'm wrong. We'll see I guess.
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Wrong, to lazy to explain for now.
toxicfumes22 said:
Wrong.....
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Hope so!
10char
toxicfumes22 said:
Wrong, to lazy to explain for now.
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OK, a little less lazy right now. But simply the way that manufactures choose the speeds for processors is actually simple. In the case of the 3D it IS underclocked. The processor is an asynchronous dual core with clock speeds initially set at 1.5 by Qualcom and is used in Qualcom's phone they produce for developers. It is underclocked by HTC because of battery problems listed from the 4G and the unnecessary need of 1.5GHz in a F*ing phone. Manufactures for the most part do not underclock the CPU. The reason it is set at the level it is, is because it is most stable, efficient and meets the heat extraction needs (People forget CPUs are just circuits and produce heat with more voltage). OK lets back this up shall we. OK.
That is why I'm too lazy to post thing, I have to search up a link cause most of this is my general knowledge. Anyways, the QSD8650 found in the EVO 4G is clocked at 1GHz and has been posted to a stable 1.3GHz I believe by a recent post. Now the MSM8660 is posted to be a 1.5GHz CPU, so its overclocking potential is more near 2GHz but I would suspect it to get a little warm(sweaty palms anyone?) and I wouldn't know how stable it would be either (I don't know phones the best). Why is it underclocked? Because people kept *****ing at how much battery the EVO used and as technology improves so does the efficiency of CPUs so they go with the most recent and just underclock it. I've seen a comparison graph somewhere by Qualcom but I spent about 10minutes looking for it and couldn't find it but it was really nifty. If someone finds it plz post it, it shows the energy vs Clock speed and it is very cool.
Anyways, to respond to whoever said that the 1.5GHz is the max and that all manufacturers underclock the CPU based upon the silicon is WRONG, wrong WrOnG and Rong/wong (Im sorry I dont remember the exact response). Anyways, its the heat extraction and the silicon hurts it because it doesn't let all the heat through, which is one of the reason your PS3 may have yellow lighted on you(Yes its because of the CPU disconnecting from the Motherboard, but why do you think this extra heat was generated?).
Sorry this is so long and I got distracted a few times while writing it so it I messed up or something doesn't make sense I apologize but being lazy is really a pain in the ass.
hdad2 said:
I'd bet that the chips in these phones will be those that were unstable at 1.5 ghz. That's how chip makers do these things. They make them all the same, then those with unstable silicon are sold as a lower clock speed. Not sure I'd expect over 1.5 and that might require higher voltage. Hope I'm wrong. We'll see I guess.
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That would be the case if this wasn't an MSM 8660. You're thinking like when AMD makes chips for the HD 6970 and some are found not to be stable at 880 mhz so they bin it to use in the HD 6950 which runs at 800 mhz. These are actually sold as two separate products. In the case of the processor in the Evo it's an MSM 8660 which is sold by qualcomm to be run at speeds as high as 1.5 ghz. If they wanted to sell chips binned for lower speeds they'd have to sell it as a different model since it wouldn't be capable of the 1.5hz.
jersey221 said:
why are people saying such low numbers the second gen snapdragons can go to what 1.9? if ours is 1.5 stock dropped down to 1.2 then i think we can at least hit 2
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1.9?
No sir it was 1.19stable...
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donatom3 said:
That would be the case if this wasn't an MSM 8660. You're thinking like when AMD makes chips for the HD 6970 and some are found not to be stable at 880 mhz so they bin it to use in the HD 6950 which runs at 800 mhz. These are actually sold as two separate products. In the case of the processor in the Evo it's an MSM 8660 which is sold by qualcomm to be run at speeds as high as 1.5 ghz. If they wanted to sell chips binned for lower speeds they'd have to sell it as a different model since it wouldn't be capable of the 1.5hz.
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Can you explain this to me please.
toxic and donatom,
Your explanations make perfect sense. So I hope to be wrong. Does qualcomm sell a processor with that same architecture and a lower clock advertised?
Just seems like they're not gonna throw them away if they are stable and 1.2 or 1.4 but less stable at 1.5+. The 3vo seems like a good way for them to unload those processors.
hdad2 said:
toxic and donatom,
Your explanations make perfect sense. So I hope to be wrong. Does qualcomm sell a processor with that same architecture and a lower clock advertised?
Just seems like they're not gonna throw them away if they are stable and 1.2 or 1.4 but less stable at 1.5+. The 3vo seems like a good way for them to unload those processors.
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To my knowledge, if this happens it gets recycled. But.....if this happens a lot then they need to change their manufacturing process or that the technology isn't there yet. Like now we have the technology to do 64GB MicroSD, but why do it because most devices can only do 32GB. For the companies that do sell them, well....I don't have good words for them, I also don't know of this happening. I can understand that it could be useful for donations to universities or others that could use them for damn near free prices, but not resold even under a different name.
toxicfumes22 said:
Can you explain this to me please.
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Well in the case of AMD with many of their chip lines they produce a higher end chip. The ones that don't fully pass the tests at the higher speed get sold as a different model with a lower clock and voltage.
I have the most experience with the HD 6970 and 6950. They both use the same GPU, but the ones in the 6950 didn't pass AMD's tests at higher speeds so they are set at a lower clock and voltage than the 6970 (they also have some shaders disbaled). They are sold as two different models even though they were made the exact same way with the same silicone. This is not new chip manufacturers have been doing this for a while.
Think of it this way I make 100k chips out of those 100k I'm going to have a percentage that can't perform at their top performance, so instead of throwing them away I make a different model and underclock it and still make money on the chips that didn't pass at the higher speed. Now sometimes I will sell more of the lower end model so I actually have to take some chips that probably would have passed as the higher end model and sell them at the lower end. In this case the user gets lucky and can unlock their chip to the performance of the higher priced model.
EDIT: What HTC is doing here is buying a 1.5ghz chip but purposely underclocking it to save battery, since they figured most users wouldn't see the .3 ghz difference but would see the difference in battery life. Again in video cards you see this but usually the other way around. A manufacturer such as Asus, gigabyte, whomever takes the best of their chips they bought and overclocks them because again some were made even better than the standards set by AMD or Nvidia.
I guess what I'm trying to say here is that ALL these chips should do 1.5 ghz stable without question, unless there isn't enough space inside for the cooling requirements at 1.5ghz (which I doubt), and most should easily go above 1.6.
Edit again since I just saw this post:
toxicfumes22 said:
To my knowledge, if this happens it gets recycled. But.....if this happens a lot then they need to change their manufacturing process or that the technology isn't there yet. Like now we have the technology to do 64GB MicroSD, but why do it because most devices can only do 32GB. For the companies that do sell them, well....I don't have good words for them, I also don't know of this happening. I can understand that it could be useful for donations to universities or others that could use them for damn near free prices, but not resold even under a different name.
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This is something that happens mostly in higher end processors because their tolerances at those speeds are less forgiving. No manufacturing process is perfect, you're going to have some that won't perform at those very high speeds, and recycling would cost more to the company and environment then simply selling them at lower speeds. These chips are not bad, and not defective, just found to not be stable at those highest speeds, but are perfectly fine at the speeds they are being sold at, so why throw them away. If they don't meet the standards at the lower speed then yes they would be recycled.
I've been looking for a more technical analysis of these SOCs and I have been trying to learn how the async CPU setup on the MSM8660 affects performance.
Nvidia claims that the power saving feature of our CPU (async) will inevitably cause a decrease in performance:
http://www.intomobile.com/2011/03/2...ed&utm_campaign=Feed:+IntoMobile+(IntoMobile)
Does anyone have any comments on this? If this is the case, I am wondering if through software we can force both cores to run at the same voltage/frequency. I wonder if it would cause an increase in performance (at least in benchmarking). Many claim that the Evo 3d only gets medicore benchmark scores due to having asynchronous cores that are not being accurately benched. It would be interesting to verify this claim.
Also, does anyone know which SOC between the three I listed in the title is the highest in performance (not talking about useless benchmarks like quadrant)?
So....there is possibly a 10–15% decrease in performance.....that's fine with me. Most of the time you won't even notice until you run benchmarks and looks at the numbers.
SetCPU + Performance mode are all you should need
DarkManX4lf said:
So....there is possibly a 10–15% decrease in performance.....that's fine with me. Most of the time you won't even notice until you run benchmarks and looks at the numbers.
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Well the 10-15% slower is nVidia's claim, not sure if its true.
Does that make both cores run at the same time or running cores at the same time not possible due to the processor
xHausx said:
SetCPU + Performance mode are all you should need
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ttieder said:
Does that make both cores run at the same time or running cores at the same time not possible due to the processor
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It will keep the cpu running at full speed. Which core gets used for what depends on a lot of things but it mostly depends on how the apps and kernel are programmed.
xHausx said:
It will keep the cpu running at full speed. Which core gets used for what depends on a lot of things but it mostly depends on how the apps and kernel are programmed.
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Yes, but is it possible to keep both cores at their full frequency? Setting the exynos or tegra 2 on performance mode makes both cores stay at their maximum frequency since they are synchronous. I think setting performance mode on the Evo 3d would only guarantee that one of the core will remain at its full frequency.
Not sure about this of course. Anyone have any insight into this?
Second Core wouldnt kick in if ur not heavily multitasking or running multithreaded apps and u wouldnt need second core for minor multitasking or single threaded operations as single core is enough
i will tell you that on paper the msmx60 should beat out all, but in real world use, the exynos hammers everything. the s2 is a beast
The Exynos is the better SoC, plain and simple. If we get into GPU discussions, the Adreno 220 is the best, as in better than Mali 400.. Go to Anandtech, and watch them use a Qualcomm device for the benches.
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Is it a "for sure" thing that ICS will use the GPU acceleration in the OS? Or is that just everyone's hopes and dreams
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You could program the kernel to keep both cores at max frequency. Im not a developer but am sure something like this could be done
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bballer71418 said:
Is it a "for sure" thing that ICS will use the GPU acceleration in the OS? Or is that just everyone's hopes and dreams
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ics will include all of the features that honeycomb has and honeycomb has 2d acceleration so yes
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Maybe we should make some real world benchmarks and get some SGS2 people in on it. Like how fast a particular app opens(say angry birds), How many fps a game plays at, Convert a file to another format, complete a 5 step plan to take over the world things like that. Alot of things like that are how reviewers rate and test things like new video cards and cpus plus all the benchmark programs.
I used to use a program called fraps to see how many fps my pc games were playing at so I could tweak stuff( long live unreal tournament!!!!). It would just display the fps in the top corner of the screen.
Also comparing the 3vo and SGS2 will really heat up when we get root and CM7. 400mb less roms have gatta make a huge difference on performance. I dunno about you guys but I haven't been able clog up my 3vo yet(and I've been trying!), I'm pretty impressed with the hardware so far.
Drewmungus said:
Maybe we should make some real world benchmarks and get some SGS2 people in on it. Like how fast a particular app opens(say angry birds), How many fps a game plays at, Convert a file to another format, complete a 5 step plan to take over the world things like that. Alot of things like that are how reviewers rate and test things like new video cards and cpus plus all the benchmark programs.
I used to use a program called fraps to see how many fps my pc games were playing at so I could tweak stuff( long live unreal tournament!!!!). It would just display the fps in the top corner of the screen.
Also comparing the 3vo and SGS2 will really heat up when we get root and CM7. 400mb less roms have gatta make a huge difference on performance. I dunno about you guys but I haven't been able clog up my 3vo yet(and I've been trying!), I'm pretty impressed with the hardware so far.
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Fraps tends to lie with FPS.
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GPU acceleration will be nice. Hope we see ICS soon.
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It is known that the MSM8660 can achieve higher clock frequencies than the Exynos, though clock for clock the Exynos has better IPC.
As of right now the GSII beats the 3VO in both benchmarks and real world tests, but I suspect this is because Sense is a pig that takes far too much ram and system resources. HTC also seems to have poorer unoptimized drivers. In addition to this, the async CPUs of the 3VO may not be properly tested by current benchmarking tools.
I think comparing a rooted 3VO and a rooted GSII should be much closer. Imagine the MSM8660 at 1.8-2.0 Ghz both cores running full frequency with no Sense and other bloat to slow it down. Combine that with a hardware accelerated GUI and this phone should be amazing.
The Adreno GPU will get better over time... and will develop much faster than before. Since Qualcomm purchased the branch from AMD (ATi), there has been much improvement in a reasonably small amount of time. There are various claims that the Adreno 220 outperforms the Tegra 2. I havent seen a solid comparison of the Adreno 220 vs the Exynos although I have read that the Exynos is a very capable processor.
As they both stand in stock offering, the Samsung GS2 will be faster; it has tremendous less resources to move. I agree with what has been said about root & rom options: CM7 on the EVO 3D will likely result in unprecedented (real world) benchmarks .Also note that the current Android releases are not yet optimized for dual/quad core management. But rest assured, it is well under development and the Sprint EVO 4G4D (hypothetical name) will behold a treasure trove of menacing capabilities.
HTC + Qualcomm + Android = Future
I think we should just wait until we can do a head-to-head AOSP CM 7 benchmark/real world test to see what happens. I'm confident the SGSII will get shredded by the E3D.
It seems unfair to compare anything within the phone itself now, because of what each phone has to run. Sense is pretty tasking on our phones and I can't say as much for the opposition.
It's funny to see NVIDIA make snide comments about Qualcomm when their phones are getting bested. Although I must say it is impressive to see that Tegra 2 phones are over a year old and keeping up with the E3D's dual-core deliciousness.
Just my thoughts.
Personally I don't believe Nvidia, plenty of benchmarks contradict their statement. That and whoever said "Additionally, the operating systems like Android and many apps aren’t set up for an asynchronous architecture." is an idiot because 99% of apps in the market don't support dual core lmfao.
So I've been lurking on the prime's forums for a while now and noticed the debate of whether the new qualcomm dual core will be better or the current tegra 3 that the prime has. Obviously if both were clocked the same then the tegra 3 would be better. Also I understand that the gpu of the tegra 3 is better. However, for normal user (surf web, play a movie, songs etc) isn't dual core at 1.5 ghz better in that an average user will rarely use more 2 cores? The way I understand it each core is able to handle 1 task so in order to activate the 3rd core you would have to have 3 things going on at the same time? Could someone please explain this to me?
First of all, the tegra 3 can go up to 1.6 ghz. Secondly, all 4 cores can be utilized by a multi threading app. Lastly, battery is great on tegra III due to teh companion core.
jdeoxys said:
First of all, the tegra 3 can go up to 1.6 ghz. Secondly, all 4 cores can be utilized by a multi threading app. Lastly, battery is great on tegra III due to teh companion core.
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But the native clock for that qualcomm would be 1.5 meaning o/c can take it higher. Also doesn't being dual core compared to quad core give it an edge in battery? You do bring up a good point with the multi threading app. Also to clarify I am not standing up for the qualcomm chip or putting down the tegra 3 just trying to get things straight.
Thanks
Hey I'm the ....idiot aboard here....lol
But the tegra 3 has a companion core, being a fifth core, to take over when the tablet is not stressed. Thus saving the battery.
I am just repeating what I have read, I have no knowledge of how it all works. I guess that is how we can get better battery life.
Just trying to help the OP, maybe some one way smarter can chime in. Shouldn't be hard....lol
Quad core is better by far. On low level tasks, simple things, and screen off/deep sleep the companion core takes over. Meaning its running on a low powered single core. This companion core only has a Max of 500Mhz speed. So when in deep sleep or low level tasks, companion core alone is running everything at only 102mhz -500Mhz. Most of the time on the lower end. Therefore tegra3 has the better battery life since all it's low power level tasks are ran by a single low powered companion core. That's 1 low powered core compared to 2 high powered cores trying to save battery. Quad core better all around. We hsvent even begun real overclocking yet. The 1.6Ghz speed was already in the kernel. So if you rooted n using vipercontrol or ATP tweaks or virtuous rom, we can access those speeds at any time. Once we really start overclocking higher than 1.6Ghz we will have an even more superior advantage. Anyone knows 4 strong men are stronger than 2..lol. tegra3 and nvidia is the future. Tegra3 is just the chip that kicked down the door on an evolution of mobile chip SoC.
---------- Post added at 10:13 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:06 PM ----------
If you really want to learn the in and outs of tegra3, all the details, and how its better than any dual core, check out this thread I made. I have a whitepaper attachment in that thread you can download and read. Its made by nvidia themselves and goes into great detail on tegra3 by the people who created it, Nvidia. Check it out.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1512936
aamir123 said:
But the native clock for that qualcomm would be 1.5 meaning o/c can take it higher. Also doesn't being dual core compared to quad core give it an edge in battery? You do bring up a good point with the multi threading app. Also to clarify I am not standing up for the qualcomm chip or putting down the tegra 3 just trying to get things straight.
Thanks
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The maximum clock speed isn't all that important, since during tasks like web browsing, watching videos & movies and listening to music you will never push the processor to its highest available clock speed anyway. All mobile devices will underclock their processors so that you rarely have unused clock cycles eating up battery life. So all things being relatively equal performance would be about the same between both tablets during these types of lightweight tasks.
If you have a lot of background processes running, then the quad-core system might have an edge in performance since theoretically different tasks can be pushed off to different processors. However this use case is rarely found in Android. You might have an app checking weather or syncing photos in the background, or you might have music playing while you web surf, but those are generally fairly lightweight tasks that usually won't test the processor performance of your device.
In tasks that will stress you processor, such as 3D gaming, then quad cores have a very large advantage over dual core systems, despite the slight difference in maximum clock speeds. In addition the Tegra 3 has a more powerful GPU than the new Qualcomm chip, which will definitely make a noticeable difference in gaming performance.
Now when it comes to ultra-low power tasks or when the tablet is on Standby, the Tegra 3 uses its "companion core" which has incredibly low power requirements, so it can continue to sync your email, twitter and weather updates for days (or weeks) while having very little impact on the Transformer Prime's battery.
So in short, the Tegra 3 is more likely to outperform the Qualcomm in situations where you actually need extra performance. In light tasks performance between the two should be about the same. Battery life is yet to be definitively determined, however the Tegra's 3 ultra-low power companion core should give it an edge when only doing light tasks or on standb.
Keep in mind, the Tegra 3 in the TF Prime has a maximum clock speed of 1300Mhz. One core has a maximum clock speed of 1400Mhz. If all things were equal, a difference of 100-200 Mhz n a 1Ghz+ processor is practically unnoticeable in daily usage.
almightywhacko said:
The maximum clock speed isn't all that important, since during tasks like web browsing, watching videos & movies and listening to music you will never push the processor to its highest available clock speed anyway. All mobile devices will underclock their processors so that you rarely have unused clock cycles eating up battery life. So all things being relatively equal performance would be about the same between both tablets during these types of lightweight tasks.
If you have a lot of background processes running, then the quad-core system might have an edge in performance since theoretically different tasks can be pushed off to different processors. However this use case is rarely found in Android. You might have an app checking weather or syncing photos in the background, or you might have music playing while you web surf, but those are generally fairly lightweight tasks that usually won't test the processor performance of your device.
In tasks that will stress you processor, such as 3D gaming, then quad cores have a very large advantage over dual core systems, despite the slight difference in maximum clock speeds. In addition the Tegra 3 has a more powerful GPU than the new Qualcomm chip, which will definitely make a noticeable difference in gaming performance.
Now when it comes to ultra-low power tasks or when the tablet is on Standby, the Tegra 3 uses its "companion core" which has incredibly low power requirements, so it can continue to sync your email, twitter and weather updates for days (or weeks) while having very little impact on the Transformer Prime's battery.
So in short, the Tegra 3 is more likely to outperform the Qualcomm in situations where you actually need extra performance. In light tasks performance between the two should be about the same. Battery life is yet to be definitively determined, however the Tegra's 3 ultra-low power companion core should give it an edge when only doing light tasks or on standb.
Keep in mind, the Tegra 3 in the TF Prime has a maximum clock speed of 1300Mhz. One core has a maximum clock speed of 1400Mhz. If all things were equal, a difference of 100-200 Mhz n a 1Ghz+ processor is practically unnoticeable in daily usage.
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Wow! Thanks for taking the time for breaking it down for me like that! I understand exactly where your coming from and now have to agree.
demandarin said:
Quad core is better by far.
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At least that is what Nvidia would like you to think.
The Tegra 3 uses an older ARM core for it's quad core design while Qualcomm uses their own ARM instruction set compatible core for their Krait S4 design. For most current benchmarks the Qualcomm Krait S4 dual core seems to outpace the Tegra 3 by quite a large margin. And of course Krait will be expanded to quad core later this year.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/5563/qualcomms-snapdragon-s4-krait-vs-nvidias-tegra-3
Dave_S said:
At least that is what Nvidia would like you to think.
The Tegra 3 uses an older ARM core for it's quad core design while Qualcomm uses their own ARM instruction set compatible core for their Krait S4 design. For most current benchmarks the Qualcomm Krait S4 dual core seems to outpace the Tegra 3 by quite a large margin. And of course Krait will be expanded to quad core later this year.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/5563/qualcomms-snapdragon-s4-krait-vs-nvidias-tegra-3
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There's already another thread on what you just mentioned and the Krait claims were easily shot down. Tegra3 still a better chip overall. Plus krait gpu was subpar to tegra3. We have more links and stuff in other thread showing Prime still right up there
demandarin said:
There's already another thread on what you just mentioned and the Krait claims were easily shot down. Tegra3 still a better chip overall. Plus krait gpu was subpar to tegra3. We have more links and stuff in other thread showing Prime still right up there
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As unlikely as that seems considering the slower cores that Nvidia uses, links to real benchmarks ( not self serving white papers ) would be appreciated. I have glanced at your Tegra3 thread but have not read it all the way through after I saw that it seemed to depend a lot on a white paper and not real comparison tests. It is true that the current GPU the Krait uses is not as fast as the one in the Tegra 3, but graphics is only one element of overall performance. The only benchmarks that I have seen Tegra beat out Krait on were benchmarks that emphasized more than two threads, and then not by much.
Dave_S said:
As unlikely as that seems considering the slower cores that Nvidia uses, links to real benchmarks ( not self serving white papers ) would be appreciated. I have glanced at your Tegra3 thread but have not read it all the way through after I saw that it seemed to depend a lot on a white paper and not real comparison tests. It is true that the current GPU the Krait uses is not as fast as the one in the Tegra 3, but graphics is only one element of overall performance. The only benchmarks that I have seen Tegra beat out Krait on were benchmarks that emphasized more than two threads, and then not by much.
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Its not my tegra3 thread I'm talking about. I think its the Prime alternatives thread created by shinzz. We had a huge debate over it. More benchmarks n supporting arguments in that thread. Check it out if you get the chance.
demandarin said:
Its not my tegra3 thread I'm talking about. I think its the Prime alternatives thread created by shinzz. We had a huge debate over it. More benchmarks n supporting arguments in that thread. Check it out if you get the chance.
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Thanks, Will do. Gotta run for a doctor appointment right now though.
I frankly think the power savings with the fifth core is mostly hype. According to many battery tests I've read online and my own experiences with my Prime, it doesn't get much different battery life from dual core tablets.
Quad core is better for future but problem for backwards compatibility... it's definitely good for tablet.
jedi5diah said:
Quad core is better for future but problem for backwards compatibility... it's definitely good for tablet.
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Here is another benchmark that shows that there is a least one current dual core that can soundly beat the Nvida quad core at benchmarks that are not heavily multithreaded.
http://www.extremetech.com/computin...ragon-s4-has-the-competition-on-the-defensive
Buddy Revell said:
I frankly think the power savings with the fifth core is mostly hype. According to many battery tests I've read online and my own experiences with my Prime, it doesn't get much different battery life from dual core tablets.
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No dual core android tablet battery last longer than an ipad1. My prime easily outlasts my Ipad in battery life. The battery hype is real. Tons of people here seeing 9-11hrs+ on a single charge with moderate to semi heavy use on balanced mode. Even longer on power savings mode.
demandarin said:
No dual core android tablet battery last longer than an ipad1. My prime easily outlasts my Ipad in battery life. The battery hype is real. Tons of people here seeing 9-11hrs+ on a single charge with moderate to semi heavy use on balanced mode. Even longer on power savings mode.
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Really? I get 9-12 hours constant use on balanced. Plus 6 more with the dock.
Sent from my PG8610000 using xda premium
I think if Krait were to come out with quad core then it would beat out tegra 3 otherwise no. Also they are supposed to improve the chip with updated gpu to 3.xx in future releases. Also benchmarks have been proven to be wrong in the past so who knows? Not like benchmarks can determine real life performance, nor does the average user need that much power.
Companion core really does work
jdeoxys said:
Really? I get 9-12 hours constant use on balanced. Plus 6 more with the dock.
Sent from my PG8610000 using xda premium
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Strange, we just started uni here (Australia) and I've been using my prime all day, showing it off to friends (to their absolute amazement!) showing off glowball, camera effects with eyes, mouth etc. 2 hours of lecture typing, gaming on the train, watched a few videos and an episode of community played music on speaker for about 40 mins, webbrowsed etc etc started using at lightly at 9 am (only properly at say 1:30 pm) and it's 10:00pm now and GET THIS!!:
72% battery on tablet and 41% on the dock. It's just crazy man. No joke, it just keeps going, I can't help but admit the power saving must be real :/
Edit: Whoops, I quoted the wrong guy, but you get the idea.
That's what I'm saying. Battery life on prime is great. Add a dock n battery life is sick!
I do agree a quad core variant of krait or S4 will give tegra3 a really good battle. Regardless I'm more than satisfied with power of tegra3. I'm not the type as soon as i see a newer or higher spec tab, ill feel like mines is useless or outdated. With have developement going hard now for this device. Just wait till the 1.8-2ghz+ overclock roms n kernels drop. Then we would even give new quad core higher speed chips a good run.
Above all of that, Android needs to developement more apps to take advantage of the more powerful chips like tegra3 and those that's upcoming. Software is still trying to catch up to hardware spec. Android apps haven't even all been made yet to take advantage of tegra2 power..yet lol. With nvidia/tegra3 we have advantage because developers are encouraged to make apps n games to take advantage of tegra3 power.
Regardless we all Android. Need to focus more on the bigger enemy, apple n IOS
So in 2011 we have Tegra 2, in 2012 we have Tegra 3 so my questions is what will come in 2013? Octo-core or an improved version of quad core cpus?
Fasty12 said:
So in 2011 we have Tegra 2, in 2012 we have Tegra 3 so my questions is what will come in 2013? Octo-core or an improved version of quad core cpus?
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Well as octo core desktop CPUs havnt really caught on yet I would guess just better quad cores likely with more powerful GPUs
Tegra 3 is already very powerful, presuming the will increase ram and make them more battery efficient or even higher clock speed. 12 core tegra gpu is pretty amazing already and anything better must be godly
Sent from my HTC Desire using xda app-developers app
If u mean for mobile platform , Will we really need beyond Quad core, having seen how SGSIII is smoothly running with it, beyond that what more perfection ( yaa still more can be expected) and speed u will need to do ur work . As known Android use other cores on need basis , why u need to see ur 2-3 cores never used.. i think its just more curiosity n to have more advaced/latest will be the only reason to have such high cpu on ur mobile..
What I like to see is ups in RAM installed and lows in RAM usage by system...
Sounds like octo-mom..the debate.lives on.. battery vs performance...but to answer your question I think it would be hexa-core which is 6..let's wait and see what is to come...
Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk 2
s-X-s said:
If u mean for mobile platform , Will we really need beyond Quad core, having seen how SGSIII is smoothly running with it, beyond that what more perfection ( yaa still more can be expected) and speed u will need to do ur work . As known Android use other cores on need basis , why u need to see ur 2-3 cores never used.. i think its just more curiosity n to have more advaced/latest will be the only reason to have such high cpu on ur mobile..
What I like to see is ups in RAM installed and lows in RAM usage by system...
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I agree. Cores are at there peak right now. The amount of CPU power we have especially in the higher end phones is enough to acomplish many, many things. RAM is somewhat of an issue especially since multitasking is a huge part of android. I really thing a 2gb RAM should be a standard soon. Also, better gpu's won't hurt
Sent from my HTC T328w using Tapatalk 2
If they decide to keep going on the core upgrade in the next two or so years, I see one of two possibilities happening:
1) Dual Processor phones utilizing either dual or quad cores.
or
2) Hexacore chips since on the desktop market there's already a few 6-core chips (though whether or not they would actually be practical in the phones architecture, no clue).
Generally speaking whatever they come out with next will either need a better battery material, or lower power processors.
I mean I'm pretty amazed by what my brother's HTC One X is capable of with the quad core, and here I am still sporting a single-core G2. But yes I would like to see more advancement in RAM usage, we got a nice bit of power, but how bout a standard 2GB ram for better multitasking?
I believe 2013 will be all about more efficient quad-cores.
May i ask what going from 1gb to 2gb will improve? Loading times?
hello everyone, could you tell me what is cuad core?
Quad core means that a processor has four processing units.
Because there are more, that means that a process, theoretically, gets executed 4 times faster.
Read more about it: http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-core_processor
Maybe i7 in mobile devices?
I'm sure it will stay at quad core cpu's, anything more is just overkill. They may introduce hyperthreading. It's going to boil down to efficiency.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using xda premium
I'd say the future lies in more efficient use of processors. Right now, Android is still far from optimized on multi-core processor-equipped devices. Project Butter is the start of a great movement by Google to optimize the operating system. Hopefully it spreads out to other OEMs and becomes the main focus for Android development.
Improving and optimizing current processors is the way hardware companies should go.
In my opinion, processor development is out running battery development. Optimized processors could reduce power consumption while preserving excellent speed and usability.
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk 2
building processors on more efficient ARM architectures is going to be the way to go from what I see......throwing four less efficient cores at a problem is the caveman method to dealing with it.....looking at you Samsung Exynos Quad based on tweaked A9 cores.....
the A15 based Qualcomm S4 Krait is more efficient on a clock for clock core for core basis and once the software catches up and starts using the hardware in full capacity, less more efficient cores will be preferred
I dont see anything beyond quads simply because they havent even scratched the surface of what can be done with a modern dual core processor yet.......throwing more cores at it only makes excuses for poor code.....i can shoot **** faster than water with a big enough pump......but that doesn't mean that's the better solution
We don't need more cores! Having more than 2 cores will not make a difference so quad cores are a waste of space in the CPU die.
Hyperthreading, duh.
More ram. Got to have the hardware before the software can be made to use it.
With the convergence of x86 into the Android core and the streamlining of low-power Atom CPUs, the logical step would be to first optimize the current software base for multi-core processors before marketing takes over with their stupid x2 multiplying game...
Not long ago, a senior Intel exec went on record saying that today, a single core CPU Android smartphone is perhaps better overall performing (battery life, user experience, etc) than any dual/quad-core CPU. Mind you, these guys seldom if ever stick out their neck with such bold statements, especially when not pleasing to the ear...
For those interested, you can follow this one (of many) articles on the subject: http://www.zdnet.com/blog/hardware/intel-android-not-ready-for-multi-core-cpus/20746
Android needs to mature, and I think it actually is. With 4.1 we see the focus drastically shifted to optimization, UX and performance with *existing/limited* resources. This will translate to devices beating all else in battery life, performance and graphics but since it was neglected in the first several iterations, it is likely we see 4.0 followed by 4.1 then maybe 4.2 before we hear/see the 5.0 which will showcase maturity and evolution of the experience.
Just my 2c. :fingers-crossed:
Does anyone know an app or a website with the the Mali T-604's full specifications. Like gpu clockspeed, V-RAM, GFLOPS, anything else. Thank you in advanced. (I already know it's quad-core, and I read that it's 423Mhz, and 512Mb of V-RAM, but I need confirmation lol).
Sent from my shooter using xda app-developers app
http://www.arm.com/products/multimedia/mali-graphics-plus-gpu-compute/mali-t604.php Shows a bit of features but nothing like clock speed or GFLOPS.
Judging from: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=39719050#post39719050 It would seem the GPU can clock at 100Mhz, 160MHz, 266MHz, 400MHz, 450MHz, and 533MHz (not sure if this is custom behavior or stock).
and custom kernels have shown we EASILY (like on stock volts easy) can overclock from 533MHz up to 720MHz. This GPU can become a real powerhouse as it gets clocked higher, and I am thinking that if we wanted to overvolt it enough we could probably even have it running at 1GHz.
As for vram, it doesnt have any. VRAM is shared with system RAM and it uses something like 1GB of system memory in reserve for the GPU on this tablet. People theorize that it dedicates so much because of our huge resolution, and that lesser devices would not need to hoard as much of the memory.
EniGmA1987 said:
...and I am thinking that if we wanted to overvolt it enough we could probably even have it running at 1GHz.
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That'd be insane lol... my desktop GPU (Radeon HD 7850) is factory OC'd and isn't even 1GHz
espionage724 said:
That'd be insane lol... my desktop GPU (Radeon HD 7850) is factory OC'd and isn't even 1GHz
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Ya, but you cant compare MHz between architectures very easily. Your desktop card has WAY more power than this tablet grade GPU. Makes me wish I could get my hands on a Mali T-628 though, with the same OC we have now on that thing I could see it blowing away anything else on the market or coming out soon.
Unfortunately Ktoonsez said it looks like our frequency table is maxed out on the GPU, so I dont know if we will be able to OC higher despite if the GPU is capable of it or not.
Gpu clockspeed isn't always THAT important just look at the GTX Titan, it's only 700-800Mhz yet it's the world's fastest gpu.
Sent from my shooter using xda app-developers app
Afroninja said:
Gpu clockspeed isn't always THAT important just look at the GTX Titan, it's only 700-800Mhz yet it's the world's fastest gpu.
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At the risk of turning this into a Desktop GPU thread; I believe AMD"s 7990 takes the spot at world's fastest GPU currently. Almost certain it slaughters the Titan at compute, and pretty sure it beats Titan in most gaming benchmarks. In terms of frame latency though, AMD might be lacking in that department, but not for long :good:
I do agree though clock speed isn't that important in most cases. Almost got a Radeon HD 7770 GHz Edition card just because of the 1GHz core clock, but the 7850 I got still outperforms it (to be fair though, it's only 50Mhz lower than 1GHz).
Regardless, with the Nexus 10's resolution, pretty sure we need a nice balance of memory frequency and GPU clock speed. GPU can be as fast as it wants, but it won't help much if the memory bandwidth is being choked :/
Afroninja said:
Gpu clockspeed isn't always THAT important just look at the GTX Titan, it's only 700-800Mhz yet it's the world's fastest gpu.
Sent from my shooter using xda app-developers app
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Thats why I said the T-628 could be the fastest if we can OC it the same. Our current GPU has "four cores" and at 720MHz GPU speed we can push 2560x1440 pixels at 58 frames per second average on the Unreal 3 engine. The T-628 is the same as what we have but twice as many cores, so twice as many computing resources. Sure there are other things coming out that are pretty fast, but think of what 2x the power of our current GPU could do At this point though espionage724 would be right, we would probably see memory bottleneck so we would need to step up from DDR-1600 to DDR-2133. Still, testing I have done shows we are just barely starting to hit a memory bottleneck with our GPU @ 720MHz, and if we OC the memory up to DDR-1728 we have lots of extra bandwidth to spare. So changing the memory up to 2133 would alleviate any sort of bottleneck that would ever show up in that area even with twice as many GPU cores.