So I've been lurking on the prime's forums for a while now and noticed the debate of whether the new qualcomm dual core will be better or the current tegra 3 that the prime has. Obviously if both were clocked the same then the tegra 3 would be better. Also I understand that the gpu of the tegra 3 is better. However, for normal user (surf web, play a movie, songs etc) isn't dual core at 1.5 ghz better in that an average user will rarely use more 2 cores? The way I understand it each core is able to handle 1 task so in order to activate the 3rd core you would have to have 3 things going on at the same time? Could someone please explain this to me?
First of all, the tegra 3 can go up to 1.6 ghz. Secondly, all 4 cores can be utilized by a multi threading app. Lastly, battery is great on tegra III due to teh companion core.
jdeoxys said:
First of all, the tegra 3 can go up to 1.6 ghz. Secondly, all 4 cores can be utilized by a multi threading app. Lastly, battery is great on tegra III due to teh companion core.
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But the native clock for that qualcomm would be 1.5 meaning o/c can take it higher. Also doesn't being dual core compared to quad core give it an edge in battery? You do bring up a good point with the multi threading app. Also to clarify I am not standing up for the qualcomm chip or putting down the tegra 3 just trying to get things straight.
Thanks
Hey I'm the ....idiot aboard here....lol
But the tegra 3 has a companion core, being a fifth core, to take over when the tablet is not stressed. Thus saving the battery.
I am just repeating what I have read, I have no knowledge of how it all works. I guess that is how we can get better battery life.
Just trying to help the OP, maybe some one way smarter can chime in. Shouldn't be hard....lol
Quad core is better by far. On low level tasks, simple things, and screen off/deep sleep the companion core takes over. Meaning its running on a low powered single core. This companion core only has a Max of 500Mhz speed. So when in deep sleep or low level tasks, companion core alone is running everything at only 102mhz -500Mhz. Most of the time on the lower end. Therefore tegra3 has the better battery life since all it's low power level tasks are ran by a single low powered companion core. That's 1 low powered core compared to 2 high powered cores trying to save battery. Quad core better all around. We hsvent even begun real overclocking yet. The 1.6Ghz speed was already in the kernel. So if you rooted n using vipercontrol or ATP tweaks or virtuous rom, we can access those speeds at any time. Once we really start overclocking higher than 1.6Ghz we will have an even more superior advantage. Anyone knows 4 strong men are stronger than 2..lol. tegra3 and nvidia is the future. Tegra3 is just the chip that kicked down the door on an evolution of mobile chip SoC.
---------- Post added at 10:13 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:06 PM ----------
If you really want to learn the in and outs of tegra3, all the details, and how its better than any dual core, check out this thread I made. I have a whitepaper attachment in that thread you can download and read. Its made by nvidia themselves and goes into great detail on tegra3 by the people who created it, Nvidia. Check it out.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1512936
aamir123 said:
But the native clock for that qualcomm would be 1.5 meaning o/c can take it higher. Also doesn't being dual core compared to quad core give it an edge in battery? You do bring up a good point with the multi threading app. Also to clarify I am not standing up for the qualcomm chip or putting down the tegra 3 just trying to get things straight.
Thanks
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The maximum clock speed isn't all that important, since during tasks like web browsing, watching videos & movies and listening to music you will never push the processor to its highest available clock speed anyway. All mobile devices will underclock their processors so that you rarely have unused clock cycles eating up battery life. So all things being relatively equal performance would be about the same between both tablets during these types of lightweight tasks.
If you have a lot of background processes running, then the quad-core system might have an edge in performance since theoretically different tasks can be pushed off to different processors. However this use case is rarely found in Android. You might have an app checking weather or syncing photos in the background, or you might have music playing while you web surf, but those are generally fairly lightweight tasks that usually won't test the processor performance of your device.
In tasks that will stress you processor, such as 3D gaming, then quad cores have a very large advantage over dual core systems, despite the slight difference in maximum clock speeds. In addition the Tegra 3 has a more powerful GPU than the new Qualcomm chip, which will definitely make a noticeable difference in gaming performance.
Now when it comes to ultra-low power tasks or when the tablet is on Standby, the Tegra 3 uses its "companion core" which has incredibly low power requirements, so it can continue to sync your email, twitter and weather updates for days (or weeks) while having very little impact on the Transformer Prime's battery.
So in short, the Tegra 3 is more likely to outperform the Qualcomm in situations where you actually need extra performance. In light tasks performance between the two should be about the same. Battery life is yet to be definitively determined, however the Tegra's 3 ultra-low power companion core should give it an edge when only doing light tasks or on standb.
Keep in mind, the Tegra 3 in the TF Prime has a maximum clock speed of 1300Mhz. One core has a maximum clock speed of 1400Mhz. If all things were equal, a difference of 100-200 Mhz n a 1Ghz+ processor is practically unnoticeable in daily usage.
almightywhacko said:
The maximum clock speed isn't all that important, since during tasks like web browsing, watching videos & movies and listening to music you will never push the processor to its highest available clock speed anyway. All mobile devices will underclock their processors so that you rarely have unused clock cycles eating up battery life. So all things being relatively equal performance would be about the same between both tablets during these types of lightweight tasks.
If you have a lot of background processes running, then the quad-core system might have an edge in performance since theoretically different tasks can be pushed off to different processors. However this use case is rarely found in Android. You might have an app checking weather or syncing photos in the background, or you might have music playing while you web surf, but those are generally fairly lightweight tasks that usually won't test the processor performance of your device.
In tasks that will stress you processor, such as 3D gaming, then quad cores have a very large advantage over dual core systems, despite the slight difference in maximum clock speeds. In addition the Tegra 3 has a more powerful GPU than the new Qualcomm chip, which will definitely make a noticeable difference in gaming performance.
Now when it comes to ultra-low power tasks or when the tablet is on Standby, the Tegra 3 uses its "companion core" which has incredibly low power requirements, so it can continue to sync your email, twitter and weather updates for days (or weeks) while having very little impact on the Transformer Prime's battery.
So in short, the Tegra 3 is more likely to outperform the Qualcomm in situations where you actually need extra performance. In light tasks performance between the two should be about the same. Battery life is yet to be definitively determined, however the Tegra's 3 ultra-low power companion core should give it an edge when only doing light tasks or on standb.
Keep in mind, the Tegra 3 in the TF Prime has a maximum clock speed of 1300Mhz. One core has a maximum clock speed of 1400Mhz. If all things were equal, a difference of 100-200 Mhz n a 1Ghz+ processor is practically unnoticeable in daily usage.
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Wow! Thanks for taking the time for breaking it down for me like that! I understand exactly where your coming from and now have to agree.
demandarin said:
Quad core is better by far.
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At least that is what Nvidia would like you to think.
The Tegra 3 uses an older ARM core for it's quad core design while Qualcomm uses their own ARM instruction set compatible core for their Krait S4 design. For most current benchmarks the Qualcomm Krait S4 dual core seems to outpace the Tegra 3 by quite a large margin. And of course Krait will be expanded to quad core later this year.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/5563/qualcomms-snapdragon-s4-krait-vs-nvidias-tegra-3
Dave_S said:
At least that is what Nvidia would like you to think.
The Tegra 3 uses an older ARM core for it's quad core design while Qualcomm uses their own ARM instruction set compatible core for their Krait S4 design. For most current benchmarks the Qualcomm Krait S4 dual core seems to outpace the Tegra 3 by quite a large margin. And of course Krait will be expanded to quad core later this year.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/5563/qualcomms-snapdragon-s4-krait-vs-nvidias-tegra-3
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There's already another thread on what you just mentioned and the Krait claims were easily shot down. Tegra3 still a better chip overall. Plus krait gpu was subpar to tegra3. We have more links and stuff in other thread showing Prime still right up there
demandarin said:
There's already another thread on what you just mentioned and the Krait claims were easily shot down. Tegra3 still a better chip overall. Plus krait gpu was subpar to tegra3. We have more links and stuff in other thread showing Prime still right up there
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As unlikely as that seems considering the slower cores that Nvidia uses, links to real benchmarks ( not self serving white papers ) would be appreciated. I have glanced at your Tegra3 thread but have not read it all the way through after I saw that it seemed to depend a lot on a white paper and not real comparison tests. It is true that the current GPU the Krait uses is not as fast as the one in the Tegra 3, but graphics is only one element of overall performance. The only benchmarks that I have seen Tegra beat out Krait on were benchmarks that emphasized more than two threads, and then not by much.
Dave_S said:
As unlikely as that seems considering the slower cores that Nvidia uses, links to real benchmarks ( not self serving white papers ) would be appreciated. I have glanced at your Tegra3 thread but have not read it all the way through after I saw that it seemed to depend a lot on a white paper and not real comparison tests. It is true that the current GPU the Krait uses is not as fast as the one in the Tegra 3, but graphics is only one element of overall performance. The only benchmarks that I have seen Tegra beat out Krait on were benchmarks that emphasized more than two threads, and then not by much.
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Its not my tegra3 thread I'm talking about. I think its the Prime alternatives thread created by shinzz. We had a huge debate over it. More benchmarks n supporting arguments in that thread. Check it out if you get the chance.
demandarin said:
Its not my tegra3 thread I'm talking about. I think its the Prime alternatives thread created by shinzz. We had a huge debate over it. More benchmarks n supporting arguments in that thread. Check it out if you get the chance.
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Thanks, Will do. Gotta run for a doctor appointment right now though.
I frankly think the power savings with the fifth core is mostly hype. According to many battery tests I've read online and my own experiences with my Prime, it doesn't get much different battery life from dual core tablets.
Quad core is better for future but problem for backwards compatibility... it's definitely good for tablet.
jedi5diah said:
Quad core is better for future but problem for backwards compatibility... it's definitely good for tablet.
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Here is another benchmark that shows that there is a least one current dual core that can soundly beat the Nvida quad core at benchmarks that are not heavily multithreaded.
http://www.extremetech.com/computin...ragon-s4-has-the-competition-on-the-defensive
Buddy Revell said:
I frankly think the power savings with the fifth core is mostly hype. According to many battery tests I've read online and my own experiences with my Prime, it doesn't get much different battery life from dual core tablets.
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No dual core android tablet battery last longer than an ipad1. My prime easily outlasts my Ipad in battery life. The battery hype is real. Tons of people here seeing 9-11hrs+ on a single charge with moderate to semi heavy use on balanced mode. Even longer on power savings mode.
demandarin said:
No dual core android tablet battery last longer than an ipad1. My prime easily outlasts my Ipad in battery life. The battery hype is real. Tons of people here seeing 9-11hrs+ on a single charge with moderate to semi heavy use on balanced mode. Even longer on power savings mode.
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Really? I get 9-12 hours constant use on balanced. Plus 6 more with the dock.
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I think if Krait were to come out with quad core then it would beat out tegra 3 otherwise no. Also they are supposed to improve the chip with updated gpu to 3.xx in future releases. Also benchmarks have been proven to be wrong in the past so who knows? Not like benchmarks can determine real life performance, nor does the average user need that much power.
Companion core really does work
jdeoxys said:
Really? I get 9-12 hours constant use on balanced. Plus 6 more with the dock.
Sent from my PG8610000 using xda premium
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Strange, we just started uni here (Australia) and I've been using my prime all day, showing it off to friends (to their absolute amazement!) showing off glowball, camera effects with eyes, mouth etc. 2 hours of lecture typing, gaming on the train, watched a few videos and an episode of community played music on speaker for about 40 mins, webbrowsed etc etc started using at lightly at 9 am (only properly at say 1:30 pm) and it's 10:00pm now and GET THIS!!:
72% battery on tablet and 41% on the dock. It's just crazy man. No joke, it just keeps going, I can't help but admit the power saving must be real :/
Edit: Whoops, I quoted the wrong guy, but you get the idea.
That's what I'm saying. Battery life on prime is great. Add a dock n battery life is sick!
I do agree a quad core variant of krait or S4 will give tegra3 a really good battle. Regardless I'm more than satisfied with power of tegra3. I'm not the type as soon as i see a newer or higher spec tab, ill feel like mines is useless or outdated. With have developement going hard now for this device. Just wait till the 1.8-2ghz+ overclock roms n kernels drop. Then we would even give new quad core higher speed chips a good run.
Above all of that, Android needs to developement more apps to take advantage of the more powerful chips like tegra3 and those that's upcoming. Software is still trying to catch up to hardware spec. Android apps haven't even all been made yet to take advantage of tegra2 power..yet lol. With nvidia/tegra3 we have advantage because developers are encouraged to make apps n games to take advantage of tegra3 power.
Regardless we all Android. Need to focus more on the bigger enemy, apple n IOS
Related
I have a question about the 3D's dual core that I'd like more clarification on the vague answers I'm getting by searching this site and google. So I've read that the core is asynchronous so basically meaning the second core doesn't do much work unless needed as others like the tegra 2 and exynos have both cores running or something similar to that, and that this is affecting the benchmark scores. I also read that one would basically double the score of the 3D to get a more accurate reading. Can anyone confirm or further explain this?
Yes, asynchronous is when something operates on another thread whereas the main thread is still available for operating. This allows for better performance in terms of managing tasks. Now just because it doesn't score high on a benchmark, it doesn't mean it is going to perform. Also this allows for better performance for the battery.
I haven't slept for the past 12 hours so if this doesn't help you, just let me know and I will fully elaborate on how the processor will operate on the phone. Now time for bed :'(
In short, asynchronous operation means that a process operates independently of other processes.
Think of transferring a file. A separate thread will utilized for doing so. You will then be able to do background things such as playing with the UI, such as Sense since you will be using the main thread. If anything were to happen to the transferring file (such as it failing), you will be able to cancel it because it is independent on another thread.
I hope this makes sense man, kind of tired. Now I'm really going to bed.
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To be more specific by asynchronous they mean that each core can run at different clock speeds. Core 1 could be at 1.2 ghz while core 2 is at 200 mhz. Most multi core processors are synchronous meaning all the cores are running at the same speed.
donatom3 said:
To be more specific by asynchronous they mean that each core can run at different clock speeds. Core 1 could be at 1.2 ghz while core 2 is at 200 mhz. Most multi core processors are synchronous meaning all the cores are running at the same speed.
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^This too
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I was also very curious to learn a little more about the async cores and how it differes from a standard "Always-On" dual core arctechiure.
Thh first page/video I found talks about the SnapDragon core specifically.
http://socialtimes.com/dual-core-snapdragon-processor-qualcomm-soundbytes_b49063
From what I've gathered, it comes down to using the second core and thus more power, only when needed. Minimizing voltage and heat to preserve battery life.
The following video goes into similar and slightly deeper detail about the processor specifically found in the EVO 3D. The demo is running a processor benchmark with a visual real time usage of the two cores. You can briefly see how the two cores are trading off the workload between each other. It was previously mentioned somewhere else on this forum, but I believe by seperating a workload between two chips, the chip will use less power across the two chips vs putting the same workload on a sinlge chip. I'm sure someone else will chime in with some additional detail. Also, after seeing some of these demos, I'm inclined to think that the processor found in the EVO 3D is actually stable at 1.5 but has been underclocked to 1.2 to conserve battery. Only time spent within our hands will tell.
Another demo of the MSM8660 and Adreno 220 GPU found in the EVO 3D. Its crazy to think we've come this far for mobile phone technology.
What occurred to me is how complex Community ROMs for such a device may become with the addition of Video Drivers that may continue to be upgraded and improved (think early Video Card tweaks for PC). Wondering how easy/difficult it will be to get our hands on them, possibly through extraction of updated stock ROMs.
EDIT: As far as benchmarks are concerned, I blame the inability of today's bench marking apps to consider async cores or properly utilize them during testing to factor the over all score. Because the current tests are most likely to be spread across cores which favors efficiency, the scores are going to be much lower than what the true power and performance of the chips can produce. I think of it as putting a horsepower governor on a Ferrari.
thanks for the explanation everyone
The best demonstration is in the first video posted, notice when Charbax looks at the monitor. There on the top right are the frequencies of the two cores, and you'll notice the both of them jumping around a lot, independent of the other. Using the cores "on-demand" only when needed ends up saving a lot of battery power, but doesn't give you any performance loss.
Harfainx said:
The best demonstration is in the first video posted, notice when Charbax looks at the monitor. There on the top right are the frequencies of the two cores, and you'll notice the both of them jumping around a lot, independent of the other. Using the cores "on-demand" only when needed ends up saving a lot of battery power, but doesn't give you any performance loss.
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Actually I was thinking that not just the battery savings but there could be a performance gain. Think of this if the manufacturer knows they only have to clock one core up to speed when needed they can be more aggressive about their timings and have the core clock up faster than a normal dual core would since they know they don't have to clock up both processors when only one needs the full speed.
I wonder if the drop to 1.2 GHz also serves to keep heat under control. It might not just be battery savings, maybe the small case of a phone doesn't allow for proper cooling to hit 1.5 safely.
I'd love to see some confirmation that the asynchronous nature of this chipset is what's responsible for the seemingly lackluster benchmarking.
mevensen said:
I wonder if the drop to 1.2 GHz also serves to keep heat under control. It might not just be battery savings, maybe the small case of a phone doesn't allow for proper cooling to hit 1.5 safely.
I'd love to see some confirmation that the asynchronous nature of this chipset is what's responsible for the seemingly lackluster benchmarking.
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The "horrible" benchmark scores are simply due to the tests inability to consider async core performance. Wait till the tests are able to take this into consideration.
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RVDigital said:
The "horrible" benchmark scores are simply due to the tests inability to consider async core performance. Wait till the tests are able to take this into consideration.
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I went through all of your links, I didn't see anything that confirms that the benches are somehow affected by the asynchronous nature of the chipset. It's not that I don't believe you, I actually had that same theory when the benches first came out. I just don't have any proof or explanation of it. Do you have a link that provides more solid evidence that this is the case?
NVIDIA actually tells a different story (of course)
http://www.intomobile.com/2011/03/24/nvidia-tegra-2-outperforms-qualcomm-dualcore-1015/
AnandTech's article does explain some of the differences
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4144/...gra-2-review-the-first-dual-core-smartphone/4
It appears that Snapdragon (Scorpion) will excel in some tasks (FPU, non-bandwith constrained applications), but will fall short in others .
I'm pretty sure none of the benchmark apps have even been updated past the release of the sensation so yeah....How could they update the app to use the asynchronus processors the if the only phones to use them have only recently been released.
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I had the G2x for like 3 days and never got to root. Poor service where I live. But could the cores be set to a specific frequency independently when rooted like computers?
tyarbro13 said:
I had the G2x for like 3 days and never got to root. Poor service where I live. But could the cores be set to a specific frequency independently when rooted like computers?
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Yea, if someone were to develop an app for that. I do not see why not.
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Hmm...
If a program such as Smart bench (which takes advantage of dual cores) is stressing both cores to 1.2ghz then regardless of if both cores are active or not the bench will be accurate.
I would rather NOT have asyncronus cores as there would be lag during frequency changes...
Ex:
2 cores running at 500mhz vs 1 core @ 1ghz and other not active.
The 2 cores will produce less heat and use less energy...
Maedhros said:
Hmm...
If a program such as Smart bench (which takes advantage of dual cores) is stressing both cores to 1.2ghz then regardless of if both cores are active or not the bench will be accurate.
I would rather NOT have asyncronus cores as there would be lag during frequency changes...
Ex:
2 cores running at 500mhz vs 1 core @ 1ghz and other not active.
The 2 cores will produce less heat and use less energy...
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There dual, it would be better for them to run asynchronous. Not only that, but it is a phone so there will be no lag between frequency changing. 2 Cores running at 500mhz will perform better than 1 core at 1ghz.
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tyarbro13 said:
I had the G2x for like 3 days and never got to root. Poor service where I live. But could the cores be set to a specific frequency independently when rooted like computers?
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This is something that the hardware needs to be capable of. Software can only do so much. As far as I've seen Tegra isn't capable of it.
I read the anandtech article and I came with conclusion that everyday task you might not see the difference between the two and while tegra2 might bench higher. The main thing people dont talk about is the GPU. Adreno 220 is a powerhouse GPU, it will probably stand strong when tegra 3 comes out.
DDiaz007 said:
There dual, it would be better for them to run asynchronous. Not only that, but it is a phone so there will be no lag between frequency changing. 2 Cores running at 500mhz will perform better than 1 core at 1ghz.
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Huh... what are u saying? Sorry dont understand... On one hand you say asynchronous is better and on the other ur saying 2 cores @ 500 will work better?
nkd said:
I read the anandtech article and I came with conclusion that everyday task you might not see the difference between the two and while tegra2 might bench higher. The main thing people dont talk about is the GPU. Adreno 220 is a powerhouse GPU, it will probably stand strong when tegra 3 comes out.
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What?!?
Andreno 220 is a horrible GPU. AT BEST it is equal to the GPU in the Original SGS.
The reason benches are so different is because Qualcomm has made NO improvements in the CPU. Desire HD CPU is the same as Sensations. While... SGS2 + Tegra have IMPROVED CPUs.
Arm 7 vs arm 9?
Maedhros said:
Huh... what are u saying? Sorry dont understand... On one hand you say asynchronous is better and on the other ur saying 2 cores @ 500 will work better?
What?!?
Andreno 220 is a horrible GPU. AT BEST it is equal to the GPU in the Original SGS.
The reason benches are so different is because Qualcomm has made NO improvements in the CPU. Desire HD CPU is the same as Sensations. While... SGS2 + Tegra have IMPROVED CPUs.
Arm 7 vs arm 9?
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Dude go back to sleep. You have no clue what you are talking about.
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X10 is garbage! this is outrageous!
Yes really, they got it working, you want it so bad try porting it yourself
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cry about it?
if you want it so bad for your phone, learn to port it yourself. until then, since you rely solely on other peoples' hard work and sweat, shut up and be patient.
dLo GSR said:
cry about it?
if you want it so bad for your phone, learn to port it yourself. until then, since you rely solely on other peoples' hard work and sweat, shut up and be patient.
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Oh snap. That was awesome.
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I might start to look into trying to port it this weekend
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firefox3 said:
I might start to look into trying to port it this weekend
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Good news man
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Being that there are currently no EGL libs for anything except PowerVR SGX devices under ICS yet, and they're closed source and tightly dependent on the kernel there doesn't seem to be a huge point until the official updates start to hit for a range of devices.
Sure, Desire, HD, X10, N1 have ports of a sort at the moment, in fact there shouldn't be too many problems getting them working aside from the graphics drivers but they're just for fun with the framebuffer driver given how much of ICS' UI rendering is done with GPU acceleration in mind. You wouldn't want to use it day-to-day. The browser is surprisingly responsive on the Desire though (I'd say moreso than GB, despite the software rendering), as is the Market (the new one always lagged really badly for me on the Desire before) - glimmers of hope for ICS' eventual performance on older devices. The keyboard lags like you wouldn't believe though!
The Atrix should fly under 4.0.1 though, if it ever happens - bearing in mind the fact that the SGX 540 in the Galaxy Nexus is pretty much in a dead heat with Tegra 2's GPU, we've got a lower resolution screen, and can overclock past the its stock speeds.
Javi97100 said:
Good news man
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Its turning out to be harder then i though... I think no one will get it until offical updates come out for other phones
Azurael said:
Being that there are currently no EGL libs for anything except PowerVR SGX devices under ICS yet, and they're closed source and tightly dependent on the kernel there doesn't seem to be a huge point until the official updates start to hit for a range of devices.
Sure, Desire, HD, X10, N1 have ports of a sort at the moment, in fact there shouldn't be too many problems getting them working aside from the graphics drivers but they're just for fun with the framebuffer driver given how much of ICS' UI rendering is done with GPU acceleration in mind. You wouldn't want to use it day-to-day. The browser is surprisingly responsive on the Desire though (I'd say moreso than GB, despite the software rendering), as is the Market (the new one always lagged really badly for me on the Desire before) - glimmers of hope for ICS' eventual performance on older devices. The keyboard lags like you wouldn't believe though!
The Atrix should fly under 4.0.1 though, if it ever happens - bearing in mind the fact that the SGX 540 in the Galaxy Nexus is pretty much in a dead heat with Tegra 2's GPU, we've got a lower resolution screen, and can overclock past the its stock speeds.
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Click to collapse
So EGL = gpu driver? If thats the only setback, would it be possible to get an ICS rom with software rendering as a proof of concept, or are there other pieces missing?
GB/CM7 is pretty good on the Atrix, if we dont see ICS for a few months it doesn't hurt us in any way. I'd like to think most of us can be patient if we lack the skills to help.
I noticed the Captivate got a port of it too since i9000 ROMs and Cap ROMs are interchangeable. I thought its funny that it's running on the HD a Windows Mobile 6.5 phone lol. Let's all try to be patient and we will eventually see it.
Edit: not to mention I'm sure if it's not already it will soon be on iPhone too. It seems like iPhones always get the new Android versions kinda early. I'm not sweating it I love my Atrix in its current state.
According to anandtech, Tegra 2 support is essentially ready, so I think as long as nvidia releases the source for ics (libs?), someone will try to port it. Hell, I have a good 5 weeks during break, I might as well try then.
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Azurael said:
Being that there are currently no EGL libs for anything except PowerVR SGX devices under ICS yet, and they're closed source and tightly dependent on the kernel there doesn't seem to be a huge point until the official updates start to hit for a range of devices.
Sure, Desire, HD, X10, N1 have ports of a sort at the moment, in fact there shouldn't be too many problems getting them working aside from the graphics drivers but they're just for fun with the framebuffer driver given how much of ICS' UI rendering is done with GPU acceleration in mind. You wouldn't want to use it day-to-day. The browser is surprisingly responsive on the Desire though (I'd say moreso than GB, despite the software rendering), as is the Market (the new one always lagged really badly for me on the Desire before) - glimmers of hope for ICS' eventual performance on older devices. The keyboard lags like you wouldn't believe though!
The Atrix should fly under 4.0.1 though, if it ever happens - bearing in mind the fact that the SGX 540 in the Galaxy Nexus is pretty much in a dead heat with Tegra 2's GPU, we've got a lower resolution screen, and can overclock past the its stock speeds.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually, no, despite being a much older GPU, the SGX 540 found in the GNexus outpaces the Tegra 2 due to its higher clock rate by 7% or 45% depending on the GLBenchmark being run. Both GPU tests were done at 720p resolution. Also, you can't overclock the GPU, only the CPU.
edgeicator said:
Actually, no, despite being a much older GPU, the SGX 540 found in the GNexus outpaces the Tegra 2 due to its higher clock rate by 7% or 45% depending on the GLBenchmark being run. Both GPU tests were done at 720p resolution. Also, you can't overclock the GPU, only the CPU.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Buddy, check out any of the kernels available in the dev thread and you'll see that the GPUs are overclocked.
WiredPirate said:
I noticed the Captivate got a port of it too since i9000 ROMs and Cap ROMs are interchangeable. I thought its funny that it's running on the HD a Windows Mobile 6.5 phone lol. Let's all try to be patient and we will eventually see it.
Edit: not to mention I'm sure if it's not already it will soon be on iPhone too. It seems like iPhones always get the new Android versions kinda early. I'm not sweating it I love my Atrix in its current state.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Doubt the iPhone will see ICS, the newest model that can run android as far as I know is the iPhone 3G, which was incredibly slow under Gingerbread.
mac208x said:
X10 is garbage! this is outrageous!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
222 posts and zero thanks? Is this what you do, go around XDA and post useless threads like the guy complaining about returning home early despite nobody asking him to "to get MIUI ported on his grandma's phone"?
Are you guys related by any chance?
edgeicator said:
Actually, no, despite being a much older GPU, the SGX 540 found in the GNexus outpaces the Tegra 2 due to its higher clock rate by 7% or 45% depending on the GLBenchmark being run. Both GPU tests were done at 720p resolution. Also, you can't overclock the GPU, only the CPU.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Depends on the benchmark, yes - texture-heavy rendering tends to perform better on the 540 in the OMAP4460 thanks to it's dual channel memory controller and high clock (and that's probably the directly relevant part to UI rendering to be honest, though as I said - lower resolution screen ) but the Tegra 2 is quite substantially ahead in geometry-heavy rendering (and games on mobiles are starting to move that way now, following the desktop landscape over the past 5 years or so.) Averaged out, the performance of the two is very close.
Plus, as I said, the GPU in my phone is running at 400MHz which ought to even things out in the GLMark 720p tests somewhat even if they are biassed to one architecture or the other. While the GPU in OMAP4460 may overclock just as well from its stock 400MHz, I'm only really concerned that the phone can run as fast as a stock GNexus to maybe skip the next generation of mobile hardware and tide it over until Cortex A15-based SoCs on 28nm process start to emerge with stronger GPUs. I don't really think I'm CPU performance bound with a 1.4GHz dual-core A9 - and increasing the number of equivalent cores without a really substantial boost in GPU horesepower seems worthless right now, even if ICS takes better advantage of SMP (re: Disappointing early Tegra 3 benchmarks - although it does seem GLMark stacks the odds against NVidia GPUs more than other benchmarks?)
Azurael said:
Depends on the benchmark, yes - texture-heavy rendering tends to perform better on the 540 in the OMAP4460 thanks to it's dual channel memory controller and high clock (and that's probably the directly relevant part to UI rendering to be honest, though as I said - lower resolution screen ) but the Tegra 2 is quite substantially ahead in geometry-heavy rendering (and games on mobiles are starting to move that way now, following the desktop landscape over the past 5 years or so.) Averaged out, the performance of the two is very close.
Plus, as I said, the GPU in my phone is running at 400MHz which ought to even things out in the GLMark 720p tests somewhat even if they are biassed to one architecture or the other. While the GPU in OMAP4460 may overclock just as well from its stock 400MHz, I'm only really concerned that the phone can run as fast as a stock GNexus to maybe skip the next generation of mobile hardware and tide it over until Cortex A15-based SoCs on 28nm process start to emerge with stronger GPUs. I don't really think I'm CPU performance bound with a 1.4GHz dual-core A9 - and increasing the number of equivalent cores without a really substantial boost in GPU horesepower seems worthless right now, even if ICS takes better advantage of SMP (re: Disappointing early Tegra 3 benchmarks - although it does seem GLMark stacks the odds against NVidia GPUs more than other benchmarks?)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would expect the Tegra to beat a nearly 5 year old GPU, but it only does so in triangle throughput. Tegra just uses a very poor architecture in general. Look at how little actual horsepower it can pull. The Tegra 3 gpu pulls 7.2GFLOPs @300mhz. The iPad GPU and the upcoming Adreno 225 both pull 19.2 GFLOPS at that same clockspeed. I honestly have no idea what the engineers are thinking over atNnvidia. It's almost as bad as AMD's latest bulldozer offerings. It's really more of Tegra's shortcomings than GLMark stacking the odds. PowerVR's offerings from 2007 are keeping up with a chip that debuted in 2010/2011. The Geforce just doesn't seem to scale very well at all on mobile platforms. But yea, all Nvidia did with Tegra 3 was slap in 2 extra cores, clocked them higher, threw in the sorely missed NEON instruction set, increased the SIMDs on the GPU by 50% (8 to 12), and then tacked on a 5th hidden core to help save power. Tegra 3 stayed with the 40nm process whereas every other SoC is dropping down to 28nm with some bringing in a brand new architecture as well.
edgeicator said:
I would expect the Tegra to beat a nearly 5 year old GPU, but it only does so in triangle throughput. Tegra just uses a very poor architecture in general. Look at how little actual horsepower it can pull. The Tegra 3 gpu pulls 7.2GFLOPs @300mhz. The iPad GPU and the upcoming Adreno 225 both pull 19.2 GFLOPS at that same clockspeed. I honestly have no idea what the engineers are thinking over atNnvidia. It's almost as bad as AMD's latest bulldozer offerings. It's really more of Tegra's shortcomings than GLMark stacking the odds. PowerVR's offerings from 2007 are keeping up with a chip that debuted in 2010/2011. The Geforce just doesn't seem to scale very well at all on mobile platforms. But yea, all Nvidia did with Tegra 3 was slap in 2 extra cores, clocked them higher, threw in the sorely missed NEON instruction set, increased the SIMDs on the GPU by 50% (8 to 12), and then tacked on a 5th hidden core to help save power. Tegra 3 stayed with the 40nm process whereas every other SoC is dropping down to 28nm with some bringing in a brand new architecture as well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Don't you get tired if writing those long rants? We understand you know something about CPU architecture, and that Tegra isn't the best one out there, but damn man, it's the same thing in every thread. Just chill out and try to stay on topic for once
Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk
edgeicator said:
I would expect the Tegra to beat a nearly 5 year old GPU, but it only does so in triangle throughput. Tegra just uses a very poor architecture in general. Look at how little actual horsepower it can pull. The Tegra 3 gpu pulls 7.2GFLOPs @300mhz. The iPad GPU and the upcoming Adreno 225 both pull 19.2 GFLOPS at that same clockspeed. I honestly have no idea what the engineers are thinking over atNnvidia. It's almost as bad as AMD's latest bulldozer offerings. It's really more of Tegra's shortcomings than GLMark stacking the odds. PowerVR's offerings from 2007 are keeping up with a chip that debuted in 2010/2011. The Geforce just doesn't seem to scale very well at all on mobile platforms. But yea, all Nvidia did with Tegra 3 was slap in 2 extra cores, clocked them higher, threw in the sorely missed NEON instruction set, increased the SIMDs on the GPU by 50% (8 to 12), and then tacked on a 5th hidden core to help save power. Tegra 3 stayed with the 40nm process whereas every other SoC is dropping down to 28nm with some bringing in a brand new architecture as well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think you are not seeing the whole picture...
The Tegra 3 (Et-Al) is not just about its quad core implementation, remember that the GPU will offer 12 cores that will translate in performance not seeing as of yet on any other platform.
Benchmarks don't tell the whole story! Specially those benchmarking tools which are not Tegra 3 optimized yet.
Cheers!
Sent from my Atrix using Tapatalk
WiredPirate said:
I noticed the Captivate got a port of it too since i9000 ROMs and Cap ROMs are interchangeable. I thought its funny that it's running on the HD a Windows Mobile 6.5 phone lol. Let's all try to be patient and we will eventually see it.
Edit: not to mention I'm sure if it's not already it will soon be on iPhone too. It seems like iPhones always get the new Android versions kinda early. I'm not sweating it I love my Atrix in its current state.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LOL I ran all the iDroid ports on my iphone. Not one was even in alpha stage, I would not even count iDroid as a port since you cant use anything on it.
-The Tegra 3 SoC (System on a chip) is a combo of a microprocessor, a memory controller, an audio processor, a video encoder and a graphics renderer. It's designed and manufactured by Nvidia, world leader of graphics computing, making it's first appearance in the Asus Transformer Prime.
-The Tegra 3 SoC has 5 physical cores, but limited to performance of quad-cores. The 5th, lower power core, is activated only when the device is idle or handling low tasks, such as syncing and e-mail checking. So, power consumption is always kept to minimum when performance of the quad-core is not needed, ensuring longer battery life. Once you run a normal or higher-demanding task on the tablet, the 5th core shuts off automatically before the 4 main cores are activated. This is all the bios of the chip and doesn't require the user or the developer to change anything to use the Android OS and application this way. Android OS already has a the best support for multi-tasking and is multi-threaded friendly compared to competing operating systems in the market. So, this should be good news of the Asus Transformer Prime to-be users soon.
-The GPU (Graphics Processing Unit) in the Tegra 3 Soc has 12 shaders. But, because Nvidia has not followed a unified-shader architecture in this ARM SoC like they've been doing in their PC and MAC discrete graphics cards, 8 of those 12 shaders are reserved for pixel work and the remaining 4 are for vertex. Maybe Nvidia will use unified-shader architecture in the next generation Tegra SoC'es, when the ARM-based devices are ready for it. The PowerVR MP2 GPU in the iPad 2 has more raw power than the Tegra 3 GPU (Actually, it's the only one thing I personally like about the iPad 2, it's GPU!), but the Tegra 3 Geforce (the commercial name Nvidia uses for their gaming graphics processors) should give a solid 3D performance in games, especially the officially supported games. Nvidia has long history in 3D gaming and been using it's solid connections with game developers to bring higher quality gaming to Android, like what we've seen with Tegra 2 SoC capabilities in games listed in the TegraZone Android app. Add to that, games are not just GPU bound, Tegra 3's quad-cores and 1GB system RAM (iPad has 512MB) will pump up gaming qualities for sure and the pixel density of 149ppi displays crisper images than the 132ppi of the iPad 2. Once the Asus Prime is released, it can be officially considered the highest performing Android device in the world, especially 3D gaming.
Well, I thought I'd have more to type, I paused for a long time and could not think of anything to add. I only wanted to share few things I know about the Tegra 3. I have high interest in computer graphics/processors and been following the Tegra project since 2008.
Some of the Asus Prime to-be-owners doesn't know or care that much about technical details of the CPU in the device and I thought of sharing with them.
Thanks and gold luck.
Thanks for the info. Very interesting
As I understand it, the use of the lower power 5th core has decreased battery consumption by over 60% when compared to the earlier 2 core design. I am not sure how they are measuring consumption and the task load.
I am most exited about the tablet because of the tegra 3.
In smartphones I find the idea of putting more than one core quite rubbish.
It is not the best solution for a tablet or any other mobile device too. I would highly appreciate a well programmed software over overpowered hardware.
Yet the tegra has a nice concept.
I think most of the time I won't use more than that 5th core. I mean it is even powerful enough to play HD video.
I will primarily use apps that display text and images. Like the browser who is said to utilize 4 cores. But I am sure only because of the crappy programming.
So if people finally come to their minds and start optimizing their apps we will have one quite powerful core and 4 in backup for REAL needs. Seems like an investment in the future for me.
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA App
Straight from Wikipedia:
Tegra 3 (Kal-El) series
Processor: quad-core ARM Cortex-A9 MPCore, up to 1.4 GHz single-core mode and 1.3 GHz multi-core mode
12-Core Nvidia GPU with support for 3D stereo
Ultra low power GPU mode
40 nm process by TSMC
Video output up to 2560×1600
NEON vector instruction set
1080p MPEG-4 AVC/h.264 40 Mbps High-Profile, VC1-AP and DivX 5/6 video decode[18]
The Kal-El chip (CPU and GPU) is to be about 5 times faster than Tegra 2[19]
Estimated release date is now to be Q4 2011 for tablets and Q1 2012 for smartphones, after being set back from Nvidia's prior estimated release dates of Q2 2011,[20] then August 2011,[21] then October 2011[22]
The Tegra 3 is functionally a quad-core processor, but includes a fifth "companion" core. All cores are Cortex-A9s, but the companion core is manufactured with a special low power silicon process. This means it uses less power at low clock rates, but more at higher rates; hence it is limited to 500 MHz. There is also special logic to allow running state to be quickly transferred between the companion core and one of the normal cores. The goal is for a mobile phone or tablet to be able to power down all the normal cores and run on only the companion core, using comparatively little power, during standby mode or when otherwise using little CPU. According to Nvidia, this includes playing music or even video content.[23]
Tegra 3 officially released on November 9, 2011[/LEFT][/CENTER][/FONT]
Tegra 2's maximum ram limit was 1GB. Tegra 3's could be 2GB.
xTRICKYxx said:
Straight from Wikipedia:
Tegra 2's maximum ram limit was 1GB. Tegra 3's could be 2GB.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The rumor mill is churning out some specs on an upcoming Lenovo tablet with some funky specs, like 2GB DD3....so it's possible. However, the same leak/article also says its chip is clocked at 1.6 Ghz which is quite a bit out of spec, so I would take it with a usual:
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jerrykur said:
As I understand it, the use of the lower power 5th core has decreased battery consumption by over 60% when compared to the earlier 2 core design. I am not sure how they are measuring consumption and the task load.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can read the White Papers on the Tegra 3 over on Nvidia's website. But the chip has a controller built into the chip that activates either the 4 cores, or the 1 core based on power demand of a given processing activity.
The quad vs single core are made out of different silicone materials, but same design structure in order to maximize the energy efficiency at the performance curve. The difference of Materials is more efficient at different power curves. So the 5th core is very efficient at low processing levels where it is actively being used.
It's pretty cool stuff
RussianMenace said:
The rumor mill is churning out some specs on an upcoming Lenovo tablet with some funky specs, like 2GB DD3....so it's possible. However, the same leak/article also says its chip is clocked at 1.6 Ghz which is quite a bit out of spec, so I would take it with a usual:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
*Correction: Tegra 3 supports DDR2 AND DDR3. The original Transformer had 1GB of DDR2 @ 667Mhz. The Prime has 1GB of LPDDR2 @ 1066Mhz, a considerable bump in speed. Also, Tegra 3 supports up to DDR3 @ 1500Mhz!
xTRICKYxx said:
I think the only compatible RAM would be DDR2. Clock speeds don't matter, as the Tegra 3 can be OC'd to 2Ghz no problem.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm sure it can, hopefully they increase the battery capacity to compensate for increased power use. As far as the memory, Nvidia's site on Tegra 3 lists DDR3 (though its still running on a 32-bit bus which may or may not be an issue with 3d games), upto 2GB. However, every bit of spec info on the Prime I can find lists DDR2...so I don't know.
RussianMenace said:
I'm sure it can, hopefully they increase the battery capacity to compensate for increased power use. As far as the memory, Nvidia's site on Tegra 3 lists DDR3 (though its still running on a 32-bit bus which may or may not be an issue with 3d games), upto 2GB. However, every bit of spec info on the Prime I can find lists DDR2...so I don't know.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Prime's RAM speed is considerably faster than the TF101.
If it does have room to expand, could we expand or upgrade the RAM?
doeboy1984 said:
If it does have room to expand, could we expand or upgrade the RAM?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Judging by the pictures, it doesn't look like the RAM will be removable or upgradeable (the RAM is the Elpida chip right next to the processor).
xTRICKYxx said:
The Prime's RAM speed is considerably faster than the TF101.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I never said it wasn't.
What I said is that both Tegra 2 and now Tegra 3 have a single 32-bit wide memory interface when compared to the two on the A5,Exynos,Qualcom, and OMAP4 chips. What that means is that theoretically it will have lower bandwidth which may cause problems with upcoming games, especially considering that you now have to feed extra cores and a beefier GPU. Now, whether or not it will actually be an issue...we will have to see.
Sad that the SGX543MP2 in the Ipad2 is still faster than the Tegra3's GPU. Apple is always ahead of the curve.. Just when Android devices started becoming as fast as the iPad1.. The iPad2 was released and remains to have one of the strongest SOCs out in the field.
Even for pure CPU benches.. the 1ghz dualcore A5 smokes most chips running faster clocks in dual core configs.
Regardless, this is still the most powerful Android device to date. Just disappointed that Nvidia, one of the king of GPU makers can't even compete with PowerVR.. a much smaller company with a lot less money.
Diversion said:
Sad that the SGX543MP2 in the Ipad2 is still faster than the Tegra3's GPU. Apple is always ahead of the curve.. Just when Android devices started becoming as fast as the iPad1.. The iPad2 was released and remains to have one of the strongest SOCs out in the field.
Even for pure CPU benches.. the 1ghz dualcore A5 smokes most chips running faster clocks in dual core configs.
Regardless, this is still the most powerful Android device to date. Just disappointed that Nvidia, one of the king of GPU makers can't even compete with PowerVR.. a much smaller company with a lot less money.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would have to agree with you that Nvidia dropped the ball on their new GPU, at least on paper.
However, it's not as simple as having "omg wtf i > you" hardware that's the source of the performance. What Apple really has going for them is uniformity of hardware/software. Apple software is designed to work on very specific and strictly controlled hardware setup which allows for an incredible level of optimizations of software. This "closed loop" if software/hardware is what really drives the performance of the iProducts. Simply put, probably way over-simplified, but it let's them do more with less.
Diversion said:
Sad that the SGX543MP2 in the Ipad2 is still faster than the Tegra3's GPU. Apple is always ahead of the curve.. Just when Android devices started becoming as fast as the iPad1.. The iPad2 was released and remains to have one of the strongest SOCs out in the field.
Even for pure CPU benches.. the 1ghz dualcore A5 smokes most chips running faster clocks in dual core configs.
Regardless, this is still the most powerful Android device to date. Just disappointed that Nvidia, one of the king of GPU makers can't even compete with PowerVR.. a much smaller company with a lot less money.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Very good point. Also apple has the apps n games that showcase and utilize all this extra power. Even my original iPad has apps/games that I haven't seen Android dual core equivalents of. I love my iPad but I also own Atix dual core Tegra 2 phone. I know the open sourced Android will win out in the end.
I came across a good comment in the lenovo specs link that a member here posted in this thread.
"Google and NVidia need to seriously subsidize 3rd party app development to show ANY value and utility over iPad. Apple won't rest on its laurels as their GPU performance on the A5 is already ahead with games and APPs to prove it".
What do you all think about this? Not trying to thread jack as I see it's relevant to this thread also. What apps/games does Android have up it's sleeve to take advantage of this new Tegra3? Majority of Android apps/games don't even take advantage of tegra2 and similar SOC yet. Are we going to have all this extra power for a while without it never really being used to it's potential. Android needs some hardcore apps n games. iPad has all the b.s. Stuff also BUT has very hardcore apps n games also to use it to close to full potential. IMO my iPad 1 jail broken still trumps most of these Tegra 2 tablets out now. Not because of hardware specs, but because of the quality of apps n games I have. I've noticed Android is finally starting to get more hardcore games like ShadowGun, game loft games, etc.. I can't over clock or customize my iPad as extensively as Android but the software/apps/games I have are great. No, I don't want an ipad2 or ipad3. I want an Android tablet now because of more potential with it. Just like with anything in life, potential doesn't mean sh$& if it's not utilized and made a reality.
I was a windows mobile person first. Then I experienced dual booting with XDAndroid on my tilt 2, I loved it. Then I knew I wanted a real android phone or tablet. First Android tablet I owned, for only a day, was the Archos7IT. It was cool but returned it since it couldn't connect to my WMwifirouter, which uses ad-hoc network. So I researched n finally settled on taking a chance with the apple iPad. I use to be an apple hater to the max..lol. My iPad changed all of that. I still hate the closed system of apple but I had to admit, the iPad worked great for what I needed and wanted to do. This iPad, I'm writing this post on now, still works flawlessly after almost 2 years and it's specs are nowhere compared to iPad 2 or all these new dual core tablets out. I'm doing amazing stuff with only 256mb of ram..SMH I hated having to hook iPad up to iTunes for everything like music n videos. So I jail broke and got Ifiles, which is basically a very detailed root file explorer. I also have the USB n SD card adapter. So now I could put my content on my iPad myself without needing to be chained to iTunes. iTunes only good for software updates. I'm still on 4.2.1 jail broken firmware on iPad. Never bothered or really wanted to upgrade to the new IOS 5.01 out now. With all my jailbreak mods/tweaks, I've been doing most new stuff people are now being able to do. All apple did was implement jailbreak tweaks into their OS, for the most part.
Sorry for the long rant. I'm just excited on getting new Prime tegra3 tablet. I just hope the apps/games start rolling out fast that really take advantage of this power. And I don't just mean tegrazone stuff..lol. Android developers going to have to really step their game up once these new quad cores come out. Really even now with dual cores also. I'm a fan of technology in general. Competition only makes things better. Android is starting to overtake apple in sales or similar categories. Only thing is Android hasn't gotten on par with apple quality apps yet. Like the iPad tablet only apps are very numerous. Lots are b.s. But tons are very great also. I'm just hoping Amdroid tablet only apps will be same quality at least or better. I'm not looking to get new quad core tablet to play angry birds or other kiddy type games. I'm into productivity, media apps, and hardcore games, like Rage HD, NOVA2, Modern Combat 3, Order n Chaos, InfinityBlade, ShadowGun, etc.. All of which I have and more on my almost 2 year old iPad 1.
Asus, with being the first manufacturer to come out with quad core tablet and super IPS + display, might just be the last push needed to get things really rolling for Android, as far as high quality software amd tablet optimized OS goes. Can't wait to see how this plays out .
---------- Post added at 01:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:58 PM ----------
RussianMenace said:
I would have to agree with you that Nvidia dropped the ball on their new GPU, at least on paper.
However, it's not as simple as having "omg wtf i > you" hardware that's the source of the performance. What Apple really has going for them is uniformity of hardware/software. Apple software is designed to work on very specific and strictly controlled hardware setup which allows for an incredible level of optimizations of software. This "closed loop" if software/hardware is what really drives the performance of the iProducts. Simply put, probably way over-simplified, but it let's them do more with less.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Great point, just as I was saying basically in my long post..lol
nook-color said:
You can read the White Papers on the Tegra 3 over on Nvidia's website. But the chip has a controller built into the chip that activates either the 4 cores, or the 1 core based on power demand of a given processing activity.
The quad vs single core are made out of different silicone materials, but same design structure in order to maximize the energy efficiency at the performance curve. The difference of Materials is more efficient at different power curves. So the 5th core is very efficient at low processing levels where it is actively being used.
It's pretty cool stuff
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is correct. Actually, the "5th" core is licensed with ARM A7 instructions set, the quads are A9.
RussianMenace said:
I would have to agree with you that Nvidia dropped the ball on their new GPU, at least on paper.
However, it's not as simple as having "omg wtf i > you" hardware that's the source of the performance. What Apple really has going for them is uniformity of hardware/software. Apple software is designed to work on very specific and strictly controlled hardware setup which allows for an incredible level of optimizations of software. This "closed loop" if software/hardware is what really drives the performance of the iProducts. Simply put, probably way over-simplified, but it let's them do more with less.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Again, I agree. Just like saying why Xbox360 and PS3 consoles can still push high quality graphics compared to a new high-end PC? Unity of hardware plays a big role there.
I have a $4000 custom PC. Sometimes I see my brother play the same games on his $250 Playstation 3 with performance and graphics very similar to my PC.
CyberPunk7t9 said:
I have a $4000 custom PC. Sometimes I see my brother play the same games on his $250 Playstation 3 with performance and graphics very similar to my PC.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's because these days, most PC games are console ports.
GPU specs don't matter. The iPad has more and better games than Android tabs, and that won't change for the (1-yr) lifespan of the Teg3. Not to be a downer, but it's just reality.
The Prime is better at certain things. HDMI-out and USB host (NTFS) support makes it a pretty good HTPC, for one. But I wouldn't get into a pissing contest over games--unless of course you're talking about emus.
e.mote said:
GPU specs don't matter. The iPad has more and better games than Android tabs, and that won't change for the (1-yr) lifespan of the Teg3. Not to be a downer, but it's just reality.
The Prime is better at certain things. HDMI-out and USB host (NTFS) support makes it a pretty good HTPC, for one. But I wouldn't get into a pissing contest over games--unless of course you're talking about emus.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is that true? NTFS support? Are you sure? Can you link me to a spec for that? If so then I can transfer files from my SD to an external NTFS without using Windows! That would be great for trips when I need to dump digital pics.
Quick question. I was reading an article about the HTC One X. It supposedly will come with a tegra 3 quad core processor but not in the US. We will get a Snapdragon S4 dual core so it can have LTE.
Does this mean we are stuck with dual core Snapdragon's in the future? Why can't they add LTE to the Tegra 3? It seems like a pretty big difference in processors. If I were planning on getting the One X I would be pretty disappointed knowing there is a more powerful phone out there. Why do we get gypped compared to overseas??
I guess I'm just saying that there are a ton of different chips out there and I don't wanna be stuck with Snapdragon's forever just to have LTE.
SkizzMcNizz said:
Quick question. I was reading an article about the HTC One X. It supposedly will come with a tegra 3 quad core processor but not in the US. We will get a Snapdragon S4 dual core so it can have LTE.
Does this mean we are stuck with dual core Snapdragon's in the future? Why can't they add LTE to the Tegra 3? It seems like a pretty big difference in processors. If I were planning on getting the One X I would be pretty disappointed knowing there is a more powerful phone out there. Why do we get gypped compared to overseas??
I guess I'm just saying that there are a ton of different chips out there and I don't wanna be stuck with Snapdragon's forever just to have LTE.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The S4 smokes the Tegra3 in just about every conceivable test. More cores ≠ better performance.
tekhna said:
The S4 smokes the Tegra3 in just about every conceivable test. More cores ≠ better performance.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This. People have this notion that just because a CPU has more cores that it is going to perform better. That isn't always the case. It has to do with architecture.
tekhna said:
The S4 smokes the Tegra3 in just about every conceivable test. More cores ≠ better performance.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Cores do help in more simultaneous tasks taking place though, no? So if you're running multiple tasks, the Tegra can handle more of a load than the S4 would be able to?
engsoccerfan said:
Cores do help in more simultaneous tasks taking place though, no? So if you're running multiple tasks, the Tegra can handle more of a load than the S4 would be able to?
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Sure, but as anandtech said:
"Qualcomm's strengths are clearly single/lightly threaded CPU performance as Krait is able to offer some significant steps forward in that department. Tegra 3 can hold onto an advantage in heavily threaded apps, but I'm not entirely convinced that in phones we'll see a lot of that."
Basically, sure, yeah, there's a theoretical advantage, but what are you doing on your phone that necessitates four cores? And even then, the S4 doesn't perform significantly better or worse on multithreaded tests than the Tegra3.
By the time you need a new phone, there'll be quad-core Qualcomm processors. I wouldn't worry, at all.
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tekhna said:
Sure, but as anandtech said:
"Qualcomm's strengths are clearly single/lightly threaded CPU performance as Krait is able to offer some significant steps forward in that department. Tegra 3 can hold onto an advantage in heavily threaded apps, but I'm not entirely convinced that in phones we'll see a lot of that."
Basically, sure, yeah, there's a theoretical advantage, but what are you doing on your phone that necessitates four cores? And even then, the S4 doesn't perform significantly better or worse on multithreaded tests than the Tegra3.
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+1
It's like putting two engines in your car. It has the *potential* to go really fast, but unless your car is built to use two engines, it's not going to make any difference. Not the best example, I know. But it's simple.
As per the OP, we just don't have compatible LTE/Tegra3 combinations yet. Very bluntly, our LTE stuff sucks. (Which is why Apple passed on it with the 4S) Eventually, there will be an LTE modem that works with a quad-core chip, it's just not there right now. Like everyone else has said, in real world performance, you won't notice it anyway.
Nvidia is working on a Tegra 3 chipset with LTE built in I think I read.
Regardless, S4 is still a beast of a chip.
im glad the htc one isn't coming to verizon. it's stuff like this that makes our rezound outdated way before it's time. no one really "needs" a quad in a cell phone and im glad there isn't alot of quad core devices coming this year. both ces & mobile world congress were a big disappointment as far as im concerned.
IMO, the S4 dual core is an awesome chip. I am very skeptical about quad core battery performance. Due to technical advancements maybe they are superior. We will see soon enough.
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still no good with limited. if you're not doing heavy multithreaded work you won't see much difference plus 4 cores means more battery consumption vs dual
Tegra = fail. The market is doing a good job with over hyping dual core and quad core. Some people think it's almost necessary to have dual/quad socs , when other platforms like w7 run just fine on a single core.
isn't the second core on resound usually asleep a lot of the time unless needed? now you can have 3 cores taking a nap
lol.
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most dual core phones only use the second core as a back-up or for HDMI only
thus making it pointless to have quad-core phones at the moment i ran everything just fine on my Thunderbolt which was single core and it out performed my stock rezound.. and yes quad core i presume would be a battery drainer cuz dual cores don't really even have that good of battery life and single cores r the same
and snapdragon has quadcores already and they r in the midst of working on 8core chipsets but that wont be out till late 2013 early mid 2014 so stick with what u have
all good things take time
)
Comparing The Tegra 3 and the Snapdragon S4 is like comparing the AMD Bulldozer chips with the current Intel chips. They put more cores on a die and call it "The Fastest" but when the benchmarks start showing up it falls short of a lower end, more efficient chips. In theory more cores = more power, but in reality architectural is everything. All the hype from people being like "MOAR COREZ OMG FASTER" is a bunch of bull...
mighty_markus12 said:
im glad the htc one isn't coming to verizon. it's stuff like this that makes our rezound outdated way before it's time. no one really "needs" a quad in a cell phone and im glad there isn't alot of quad core devices coming this year. both ces & mobile world congress were a big disappointment as far as im concerned.
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CES and MWC are just teasers anyways. Did you see the Rezound, Nexus, Razr, Razr Maxx, Transformer Prime, Galaxy Note, etc at those events last year? Nope, you saw the Bionic which 7 months later was a disastrophy, lol.
Did veruzon say they weren't getting the one x? I know there is a new verizon htc phone on the road map.
I'm curious about the snapdragon s4 just because it has lte integrated.
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Well the One X has the same processor as my laptop 1.5 gh quad core. The only thing I think my computer really needs the quad cores for is intense games especially my wii emulator, which probably could run on One X since it has the same processor as my computer.
Ndaoud360 said:
Well the One X has the same processor as my laptop 1.5 gh quad core. The only thing I think my computer really needs the quad cores for is intense games especially my wii emulator, which probably could run on One X since it has the same processor as my computer.
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It's also pretty dependent on the GPU. Not sure what kind of graphics card your laptop has, but that has a pretty substantial effect on gaming.
The One X has a great dedicated GPU, but it's still a phone. Not sure if it can really match up to an actual computer's graphics card, but I've been wrong before.
So in 2011 we have Tegra 2, in 2012 we have Tegra 3 so my questions is what will come in 2013? Octo-core or an improved version of quad core cpus?
Fasty12 said:
So in 2011 we have Tegra 2, in 2012 we have Tegra 3 so my questions is what will come in 2013? Octo-core or an improved version of quad core cpus?
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Well as octo core desktop CPUs havnt really caught on yet I would guess just better quad cores likely with more powerful GPUs
Tegra 3 is already very powerful, presuming the will increase ram and make them more battery efficient or even higher clock speed. 12 core tegra gpu is pretty amazing already and anything better must be godly
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If u mean for mobile platform , Will we really need beyond Quad core, having seen how SGSIII is smoothly running with it, beyond that what more perfection ( yaa still more can be expected) and speed u will need to do ur work . As known Android use other cores on need basis , why u need to see ur 2-3 cores never used.. i think its just more curiosity n to have more advaced/latest will be the only reason to have such high cpu on ur mobile..
What I like to see is ups in RAM installed and lows in RAM usage by system...
Sounds like octo-mom..the debate.lives on.. battery vs performance...but to answer your question I think it would be hexa-core which is 6..let's wait and see what is to come...
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s-X-s said:
If u mean for mobile platform , Will we really need beyond Quad core, having seen how SGSIII is smoothly running with it, beyond that what more perfection ( yaa still more can be expected) and speed u will need to do ur work . As known Android use other cores on need basis , why u need to see ur 2-3 cores never used.. i think its just more curiosity n to have more advaced/latest will be the only reason to have such high cpu on ur mobile..
What I like to see is ups in RAM installed and lows in RAM usage by system...
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I agree. Cores are at there peak right now. The amount of CPU power we have especially in the higher end phones is enough to acomplish many, many things. RAM is somewhat of an issue especially since multitasking is a huge part of android. I really thing a 2gb RAM should be a standard soon. Also, better gpu's won't hurt
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If they decide to keep going on the core upgrade in the next two or so years, I see one of two possibilities happening:
1) Dual Processor phones utilizing either dual or quad cores.
or
2) Hexacore chips since on the desktop market there's already a few 6-core chips (though whether or not they would actually be practical in the phones architecture, no clue).
Generally speaking whatever they come out with next will either need a better battery material, or lower power processors.
I mean I'm pretty amazed by what my brother's HTC One X is capable of with the quad core, and here I am still sporting a single-core G2. But yes I would like to see more advancement in RAM usage, we got a nice bit of power, but how bout a standard 2GB ram for better multitasking?
I believe 2013 will be all about more efficient quad-cores.
May i ask what going from 1gb to 2gb will improve? Loading times?
hello everyone, could you tell me what is cuad core?
Quad core means that a processor has four processing units.
Because there are more, that means that a process, theoretically, gets executed 4 times faster.
Read more about it: http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-core_processor
Maybe i7 in mobile devices?
I'm sure it will stay at quad core cpu's, anything more is just overkill. They may introduce hyperthreading. It's going to boil down to efficiency.
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I'd say the future lies in more efficient use of processors. Right now, Android is still far from optimized on multi-core processor-equipped devices. Project Butter is the start of a great movement by Google to optimize the operating system. Hopefully it spreads out to other OEMs and becomes the main focus for Android development.
Improving and optimizing current processors is the way hardware companies should go.
In my opinion, processor development is out running battery development. Optimized processors could reduce power consumption while preserving excellent speed and usability.
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building processors on more efficient ARM architectures is going to be the way to go from what I see......throwing four less efficient cores at a problem is the caveman method to dealing with it.....looking at you Samsung Exynos Quad based on tweaked A9 cores.....
the A15 based Qualcomm S4 Krait is more efficient on a clock for clock core for core basis and once the software catches up and starts using the hardware in full capacity, less more efficient cores will be preferred
I dont see anything beyond quads simply because they havent even scratched the surface of what can be done with a modern dual core processor yet.......throwing more cores at it only makes excuses for poor code.....i can shoot **** faster than water with a big enough pump......but that doesn't mean that's the better solution
We don't need more cores! Having more than 2 cores will not make a difference so quad cores are a waste of space in the CPU die.
Hyperthreading, duh.
More ram. Got to have the hardware before the software can be made to use it.
With the convergence of x86 into the Android core and the streamlining of low-power Atom CPUs, the logical step would be to first optimize the current software base for multi-core processors before marketing takes over with their stupid x2 multiplying game...
Not long ago, a senior Intel exec went on record saying that today, a single core CPU Android smartphone is perhaps better overall performing (battery life, user experience, etc) than any dual/quad-core CPU. Mind you, these guys seldom if ever stick out their neck with such bold statements, especially when not pleasing to the ear...
For those interested, you can follow this one (of many) articles on the subject: http://www.zdnet.com/blog/hardware/intel-android-not-ready-for-multi-core-cpus/20746
Android needs to mature, and I think it actually is. With 4.1 we see the focus drastically shifted to optimization, UX and performance with *existing/limited* resources. This will translate to devices beating all else in battery life, performance and graphics but since it was neglected in the first several iterations, it is likely we see 4.0 followed by 4.1 then maybe 4.2 before we hear/see the 5.0 which will showcase maturity and evolution of the experience.
Just my 2c. :fingers-crossed: