i know these questions can probably be found somewhere but would someone be able to give me a quick run down of what 1.1 and 1.2 stock is and how does that relate to 3588 and 4349? also what is the bootloader and why do some things require the stock bootloader and not CWM? and also, how do you go back to the stock bootloader, just nvflash the stock 1.1 or 1.2? and also why are 1.1 and 1.2 bootloaders not compatible with certain roms and such?
thanks in advance!
joshtb86 said:
i know these questions can probably be found somewhere but would someone be able to give me a quick run down of what 1.1 and 1.2 stock is and how does that relate to 3588 and 4349? also what is the bootloader and why do some things require the stock bootloader and not CWM? and also, how do you go back to the stock bootloader, just nvflash the stock 1.1 or 1.2? and also why are 1.1 and 1.2 bootloaders not compatible with certain roms and such?
thanks in advance!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can answer some ...
1.1 and 1.2 are the 2 common bootloaders for the gtablet.
I think of bootloaders as a layer of software that sits underneath a ROM and provides services to it. ie between the ROM and the hardware.
1.2 is the newer bootloader, which is needed by 4349, Bottle of Smoke (BOS) which is a Honeycomb distribution, and a few other. (Mountain Laurel, and Brilliant Corners which are 1.2 versions on TNT Lite and Vegan Tab).
All others 3588 (and before), TNT Lite *, Vegan Tab, CM (all versions maybe except one which I hear is for 1.2 for gadam?) use the 1.1 bootloader.
Stock recovery (update.zip and command file) , will update both ROM and bootloader, and is the preferred way to go between 1.1 and 1.2 based ROMs
CWM 0.8 will update ROM but *not* the bootloader.
So CWM cannot be used to go between 1.1 and 1.2 based ROMs.
If you currently use CWM, you can nvflash to a stock ROM (eg 3588), you get stock recovery back, and you should be then able to update to any ROM.
There is also a recovery pack for some 3588 based ROMS (maybe also for the 4349 ROMs) that has scripts to switch between stock and CWM recovery, although I do not know how well they work. Doing this would not require NV flashing.
My guess as to why different ROMs go with different Bootloaders, is that the newer Bootloaders, provide new functionality for new ROMs (due to which, new ROMs do not work with old bootloaders) and delete functionality needed by older ROMs (due to which, older ROMs do not work with newer bootloaders). However if the ROM could be made to not rely on these changes of services, they could in theory be made to work with both bootloaders. I have no idea if this is possible in practice.
joshtb86 said:
i know these questions can probably be found somewhere but would someone be able to give me a quick run down of what 1.1 and 1.2 stock is and how does that relate to 3588 and 4349? also what is the bootloader and why do some things require the stock bootloader and not CWM? and also, how do you go back to the stock bootloader, just nvflash the stock 1.1 or 1.2? and also why are 1.1 and 1.2 bootloaders not compatible with certain roms and such?
thanks in advance!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
3588 use the 1.1 bootloader
The recovery is only able to start an update.zip
4349 use the 1.2 bootloader (same as Honeycomb based rom)
4349 also install a new recovery that look like CWM but is Honeycomb blue
Bootloader in this case is actually a combination of 2 thing, bootloader and kernel they are save on 2 different part of the nvflash image (2-3)
The stock bootloader is needed to be able to move from a rom using version version 1.1 to 1.2 or back, the proper method is to use an update.zip since this is the only method know to update the bootloader (NVFLASH doesnt flash partition 2 and 3)
To go back use UPDATE.ZIP with a STOCK 1.1 recovery, you can even nvflash the recovery directly using nvflash (position #9)
Why are they incompatible? good question, mostly kernel related afaik, there's now cross compatible kernel available that allow you to use a 1.2 bootloader with a 1.1 rom (see Clemsyn thread) this also provide the capacity to use similar rom from other brand (seem like the gtab was using an older bootloader)
very interesting subject that do require reading a few thread to be safe...
cbay, Thanks that was very informative. I had been wondering the same question.
well, now you know the what and how, but what about the why and the history...
Viewsonic is a basically a repackager. they put their name on a product and sell it to the masses. US Merchants is the US company that imports these products from China. The Chinese company that actually builds them is called Malata.
Malata is also responsible for the Notion Ink Adam as well as some other Tegra 2 based tablets.
The odd part comes in to play when you look at the bootlaoders for each device. Notion Ink always used a 1.2 bootloader for their Adam updates and firmwares. Viewsonic, though, was using what is assumed to be an older version of firmware based on the 1.1 branch. There is a lot of speculation as to why this is, and there is no real answer.
Now, back in February, one of the devs got a hold of a firmware labelled 3391. He discovered that it was on a different bootloader than the G-Tablet was currently using. he messed around with it a bit, but it proved to be difficult to crack at the time, since everyone was on 1.1 and it wasn't an official update, so nobody really had it.
Then, Viewsonic hadn't released an official update for a while. Users were getting irritated, and a mass request went out for Viewsonic to do SOMETHING...they did, they released the 4349 firmware, but then pulled it 24 hours later. It's still known as the most recent officla firmware, thought it's not available anymore (officially) 4349 also ended up being a 1.2 firmware. SO, now since this was an official update, the developer that was messing with 3391 figured that this was the direction that Viewsonic/Malata was going to go. He made his opinions known but was rejected by some of the mods here at XDA.
Since then, he has graciously moved to another forum where he houses all of his 1.2 roms. He took it upon himself ot convert his older roms to the newer 1.2 bootloader (Brilliant Corners, Mountain Laurel). He also created a seperate Clockwork mod that will work on 1.2 bootlaoder as well.
It was discovered that the new 1.2 bootloader from Viewsonic was the same bootloader that Adam had been using all along. It seemed that Viewsonic was either using, or getting outdated software from Malata. So, now we can also use Adam Roms and Kernels on our G-Tablets as well.
Honeycomb was ported from another device, but enabled to use the 1.2 bootloader. It's still in Alpha stages, but does require the 1.2 bootloader to flash.
Essentially, 3588 was the LAST 1.1 official updated firmware directly from Viewsonic. The only way that it can be improved upon is if we get more 1.1 official updates from Viewsonic. But, since we haven't recieved ANY updates from Viewsonic, we're not holding our breath.
4349 was the FIRST (and as of now ONLY) 1.2 official update from Viewsonic.
Fortunately for G-Tablet users, the Adam bootloader being compatible with our 1.2 bootlaoder opens the door for infinate possibilities. We are no longer dependant on VS to provide updates, as updates from Notion Ink can be ported more easily.
it's been suggested that the older 1.1 roms e converted to 1.2 roms ot avoid confusion and unexpected softbricks caused by such confusion, but there is resistence.
cbay said:
I can answer some ...
If you nvflash to stock (ie without CWM), you should be able to update to any ROM.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
wrong, Nvflash doesn't update the bootloader, so the only correct way to move from one version of bootloader to the other is the update.zip method with a STOCK recovery (it also need a rom with the command "write_bootloader_image("/tmp/bootloader.bin", "EBT"" in the updater script )
Like you mentioned CWM doesn't flash the bootloader
if you check the process during nvflash, partition #2 and 3 (actually it's all the same partition only splitted in parts) are not flashed...
they can however be read using the correct command
Everything else is right, hey 2 answer for the same lazy question he's a lucky guy...
p00r, I'm very curious about that. Have you done a binary compare before and after nvflashing with different bootloaders to confirm it? If not, I may try it myself. I use nvflash to move between 1.1 and 1.2 based ROMs all the time and have never had any trouble with it. I do agree that it is probably better and safer to use stock recovery for normal usage but I've never had an nvflash fail on my tablet due to a difference in bootloaders so I'd like to learn more about it so I can use that information to avoid trouble.
P00r said:
wrong, Nvflash doesn't update the bootloader, so the only correct way to move from one version of bootloader to the other is the update.zip method with a STOCK recovery (it also need a rom with the command "write_bootloader_image("/tmp/bootloader.bin", "EBT"" in the updater script )
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What I meant was, nvflash to a stock ROM like 3588 and then use stock recovery to update to a 1.2 based ROM, instead of CWM.
As far as I know this should work, as nvflashing to a stock ROM like 3588 would get you to stock recovery as well. (Right?)
Also, at any point when updating to a ROM using stock recovery, it is good to read the thread of instructions for the particular ROM as, it may contain more steps of wiping data/ cache etc. Some ROMs may also require a change in partitioning.
K J Rad said:
p00r, I'm very curious about that. Have you done a binary compare before and after nvflashing with different bootloaders to confirm it? If not, I may try it myself. I use nvflash to move between 1.1 and 1.2 based ROMs all the time and have never had any trouble with it. I do agree that it is probably better and safer to use stock recovery for normal usage but I've never had an nvflash fail on my tablet due to a difference in bootloaders so I'd like to learn more about it so I can use that information to avoid trouble.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What do you want to compare exactly ?
There's plenty of post that explain the issue to move between 1.2 and 1.1 roebeet used to call this softbrick when he discovered the 3991 leaked viewsonic rom that used 1.2 bootloader...
cbay said:
What I meant was, nvflash to a stock ROM like 3588 and then use stock recovery to update to a 1.2 based ROM, instead of CWM.
As far as I know this should work, as nvflashing to a stock ROM like 3588 would get you to stock recovery as well. (Right?)
Also, at any point when updating to a ROM using stock recovery, it is good to read the thread of instructions for the particular ROM as, it may contain more steps of wiping data/ cache etc. Some ROMs may also require a change in partitioning.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes as soon as you nvflash a stock recovery over anything and then use the recovery to do an update.zip of another rom type it will work.
wow thanks for the help everyone! i hit the thanks button to everyone who replied.
im running the clemsyn + calkulin version 5. does anyone know how to find out what version of the bootloader that is? there is a version 6 released requiring 1.2 and i also wanted to tryout the honeycomb version.
also, a backup image created with CWM - does it back up the bootloader, rom, and kernel? or just the rom
thanks again!
P00r said:
What do you want to compare exactly ?
There's plenty of post that explain the issue to move between 1.2 and 1.1 roebeet used to call this softbrick when he discovered the 3991 leaked viewsonic rom that used 1.2 bootloader...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Compare the bootloader before and after the nvflash. I've seen all the threads on moving between 1.1 and 1.2 and quite frankly I've never had any trouble using nvflash to do it regardless of which ROM I'm going to or from as long as I use the appropriate bootloader in the nvflash command. Based on that experience I would say the bootloader is being updated on the tablet or else I would have had considerably more trouble. The only time I've seen any trouble moving between the two is when trying to use ClockworkMod.
P00r said:
Everything else is right, hey 2 answer for the same lazy question he's a lucky guy...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Err, that wasn't really a "lazy question."
Everything on here and elsewhere assumes you know what "1.1" vs. "1.2" means without explanation. There's hardly anything anywhere that explains what they mean to new users.
I'm not sure how asking a question which isn't answered anywhere else is "lazy."
I'm finally getting around to updating my phone to 2.3.4 (bought a house over the summer and haven't had time to play with updates).
I currently have a rooted 2.2.2 Atrix with my apps/data backed up via Titanium Backup and saved off to my desktop for later restoration if needed. Except for Root and APN mod, the phone is otherwise stock.
I'm not necessarily interested in using a custom rom right now (though a wipe of data/apps may help clean things up), though I do need root, APN hack, and plan on installing the full-linux-webtop mod (if I can get my laptop dock to work reliably...). I assume things have evolved since the old posts I've come across about updating when it first came out.
What is the best method for updating to 2.3.4 at this stage?
thanks,
- David
In my opinion you should still unlock your phone even if you are staying with a stock rom. It is way easier to flash with CWM method, even if you are staying with a stock rom. Look at Fruitcake 2.3.4 and you can also flash a fruitcake 2.3.4 webtop. If you mess up your webtop hacking on it to get it just like you want it, your can reflash just the webtop.
Of course after you unlock your phone, you will probably get the itch to look at some of the custom roms that are out there. A lot of them are basically the stock rom with customizations built in.
Hi, sorry about this. I just got my Atrix today from the US, unlocked, but it was from AT&T, with Froyo 2.2.2, baseband N_01.77.15P, build number OLYFR_U4_1.8.3 and I have a few questions because I am seriously going crazy trying to figure this out alone (it's a whole lotta complicated than my Milestone...)
I'm sorry if this would be a lot! I am totally new to this Atrix
1.) I tried the OTA update for the official Gingerbread but it was unsuccessful. Basically, I just rooted the phone then tried the OTA update and it didn't push through. Should I try again? I am thinking of downloading the file via laptop and transferring it then trying again. But I have seen some issues that their phones were bricked...
2.) Since this is an AT&T Atrix, should I only flash AT&T radio images or can I use the other images? (Southeast Asia or International) I don't know why but I only have one bar in the house, and a lot of times, none. Can I flash another radio image even though it is from AT&T? Will it improve my signal? I've read other threads here but one guy said that it should still be AT&T regardless of where you use it..so I am confused.
3.) I want to put CM7 instead to my Atrix since it is what I used with my Milestone. Should I first flash CM7 before I flash the radio image? Or the other way around? I figured out that this thread..well I just have to follow it yes? http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1257574
Thank you so much in advanced for those who would be helping me out.
Happy Holidays!
If your phone is only SIM unlocked, you'll need to bootloader unlock it to do the following. You'll also need to flash RomRacer's CWM recovery.
1) try use Fruit Cake if you want to upgrade to 2.3.4: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1163009. Or if you prefer CM7, after BL unlock and install recovery, you can directly go ahead to flash CM7.
2) You can try to flash a newer AT&T radio, see the Fruit Cake post above, or the CM7 stable build post. My experience is that AT&T radio can be used in other countries as long as it's GSM/WCDMA and the frequencies are covered
3) flashing CM7 image won't affect the radio, they're in two different partitions and are independent of each other.
Good luck.
Hi, thanks for the reply. OK, I think shall go with the Fruit Cake but...how do I flash these FruitCakes via CWM?
search is your friend, my friend:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1204500
Also if anything unclear: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1154600
I'm in the Philippines as well, I use CM7 Feb 20 weekly. 100.00R baseband I think it came from Orange FR, but it works great.
does your 3G work with your atrix phone? or do you need to get a contract from smart or globe? i have used my phone in the Philippines with no problem except having 3G or any data service but everything else works fine
Motorola defy is comes with locked bootloader. But defy have so may custom roms(miui,ics,jb4.1,4.2), custom kernels, and even use two or more roms to boot.( one from internel and others from externel sd card). If defy is able to do this with locked bootloader then why photon ?.
These are the words from defy wiki page.
LOCKED Bootloader, what does this means?For some people is hell, for others (normally non advanced users) is a pretty cool insurance for their phone. This locked Bootloader thing means there is no (so far) way to rewrite the Stock Bootloader or the Stock Recovery.When the phone turns on the Bootloader basically starts all the hardware and make your phone come alive.Then we have the Stock Recovery, this little part of your phone is also locked and cannot be removed or changed from your phone, it will allow you to make Recovery stuff like Full Wipe (Data and Cache) and install Update.zip files.At first this became a problem, because with a locked Bootloader there is no way to install a Custom Recovery like ClockworkMod or install a new Rom.Here is where2nd Initcomes to play, this little awesome app kicks inright after the Bootloader and allows the Defy to load a different, non-Stock Android.With this, you can also install a Custom Recovery, which runs from the Internal Memory, and is not ran from the Recovery Partition (remember: locked, not accessible) what does this means? That even screwing up your phone, deleting allyour stuff, or screwing /system partition the phone can still get into Recovery, be recognized by RSD Litein Bootloader Mode and be flashed with a Stock or modified Rom (more on this later) and it will come back tolive normally.Thanks to this locked Bootloader, is really, really hard to Brick your Defy.Most of the issues seen on the Forums are NOT Bricks, just incorrectly flashed SBFs (more on this later). With brick one mean the phone has no access to the Bootloader or can’t initialize its hardware, requiring you to use a JTAG to directly reprogram the phone (which I’m not sure is possible on the Defy).
Custom Recovery
A custom recovery is a special"App"** that comes in a separate partition in your phone. This"App"** allows Android Phones to do recovery tasks, like deleting data,installing recovery Zips and so on; The tasks you are allowed to do withStock Recovery are pretty basic. Here is where Clockwork Mod comes into play.CWM is a Recovery that allows you to not only do basic tasks but also create Nandroid Backups, Restore Them, Fix Permissions and quite a lot of other useful stuff.Normally a Custom Recovery is installed by flashing the Recovery Partition in your Android Phone witha Custom Image, but since our Defy comes with a Locked Bootloader, this is not possible. Leaving us without many options to proceed.And that's why we have 2nd Init, thisapplication is what actually installs CWM in the Defy, it does it by installing it in your internal memory and not in your Recovery Partition and then pointing the Android system to it right after the Stock Recovery boots.**Is not actually an App, is more likea Linux Console with UI so you can recover.
Sent from my MB525 using Tapatalk 2
I think if our devs modify the 2ndint apk for photon, then all locked photon users will able to try all roms available here.
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One dev is already working on this....Bt not yet successful...
But we hope he'll b successful.... N we can enjoy the test of different ROMS.
Sent from my MB855 using xda app-developers app
Cooldevil1989 said:
One dev is already working on this....Bt not yet successful...
But we hope he'll b successful.... N we can enjoy the test of different ROMS.
Sent from my MB855 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It is glad to hear that and hope he will achieve it. Compared with photons hardware my defy is far behind.
I was purchased my photon from ebay few days back (only looking its specifications!!)
After reading through this forum i realised that its not possible now to try jb, ics, or even some cm7 roms in my photon becouse it is 2.3.5..
Sent from my MB525 using Tapatalk 2
First, sorry if this is the wrong place, etc.
Here's what I got. I have 2 identical s3's. They are the Ntelos version, sch-r530x. One is rooted, custom recovery, and is flashed to hyperdrive verizon rom. Most of it works fine, but there are certain bugs and I need full function back.
The other device is completely stock and received an OTA update to 4.3 the other day.
I need to extract the stock 4.3 and flash it to the rooted phone to get back to a stock version and get back the functions that wont work. My phone being ntelos and the current rom being for verizon has caused quite a few issues that didnt immediately make themselves known. So I just want to be rid of the custom rom.
Now here is where I am finding a problem. My phone is sch-r530x. The verizon rom has it thinking it is an sch-i535. So when I try standard methods, like using KIES, the phone wont be recognized.
I am thinking the best option is to extract the stock rom from the completely stock device and flash it, via odin or cwm recovery, onto the rooted device. I realize I may have to root the stock device to do this, which is fine, I found a method that works for this model, the trouble only began when I flashed the hyperdrive rom (because someone else had reported good compatability....LIES).
ANY HELP HERE IS APPRECIATED!!!
Also, the reason I need to extract the stock rom from the stock device is because being a regional carrier, the ntelos rom is NOWHERE to be found online. Nobody has heard of them from what I have found, and my last 3 phones through them I have basically had to create my own root methods by piecing together bits from tutorials for other models. I have a good track record, and was able to pull it off again with this model, but I screwed up when I flashed this custom rom for the wrong model number, now nothing works quite like it should.
PLEASE HELP
Wrong forum, read the very first thread about US phones.