Picky about charging & USB power sources - Atrix 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting

So as many of you may have noticed, the Atrix is very picky about its charging source. I have used many 'homemade' chargers (Micro USB with 4AA batteries etc.) generic cigarette lighter to USB, USB hubs (not connected to a computer) to charge my other phones (Captivate, Incredible, Fuze, Aria). However the Atrix will not charge from some power sources, I get no charging indicator and the battery does not charge.
This thread explains some of the issues, but without a 100% resolution or answer as to why. This bring me to a question, that I am hoping someone with a lot more knowledge than I, can answer. Is the charging circuit in our Atrix software driven or solely hardware? If is driven by software (kernel level or otherwise) is there any way to change this action so that the Atrix will charge from any power source?
I will continue looking into the hardware side and follow up in the next couple of day, but I am hoping someone will chime in and say ‘it’s as simple as changing/adding this or that in the kernel.’
Thanks! -Mike

D+ to D-
As briefly stated in the link of my first post (above) directly connecting (shorting) D+ to D- will allow for the Atrix to be charged from any(?) ~5v power source. I verified this is how the wall charger supplied with the Atrix works, and how I got my ‘homemade’ charger to work.
However, I am still hoping that someone has an answer to my original question; “Is the charging circuit in our Atrix software driven or solely hardware?” (kind-of a pain to have to open up every charger and short these pins)
“As of 14 June 2007, all new mobile phones applying for a license in China are required to use the USB port as a power port.[40][41] This was the first standard to use the convention of shorting D+ and D-.[42]”
Reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB#Mini_and_Micro_connectors

Related

[DEV] Boost USB power to NC from computer

Greetings Devs.
I found this software which promises to charge i products faster. So why not the nook? I know it works with the ipad/iphone/itouch, but not the NC (or anything else for that matter). I was looking in the ini file and managed to match up the class id of each product, and then I found the id for the NC and added this line:
HKLM, System\CurrentControlSet\Control\Class\{3f966bd9-fa04-4ec5-991c-d326973b5128}, LowerFilters, %REG_MULTI_SZ_APPEND%, AiCharger
To both the install and uninstall filter. However, I cannot tell if it pushes extra power to just the ipad, or if it does to all of them.
Ideas? Tried digging around the sys file in hex, but nothing found. I think it would be nice if we could boost output a bit
USB Standard is 500mAh. If you somehow force your port to deliver more power you could fry it.
khaytsus said:
USB Standard is 500mAh. If you somehow force your port to deliver more power you could fry it.
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Click to collapse
Well yeah, but no one is at least curious if this could help out at all? Maybe hardware manufactures cap it @ 5V, .5A and they override it? Maybe it provides a steadier draw somehow? Maybe they draw more power from the rails for powered-usb slots?
ace7196 said:
Well yeah, but no one is at least curious if this could help out at all? Maybe hardware manufactures cap it @ 5V, .5A and they override it? Maybe it provides a steadier draw somehow? Maybe they draw more power from the rails for powered-usb slots?
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Charging more than 500ma through the USB hardware is bad.
Lithium batteries charge at full amperage over the entire charge cycle, and just turn off the charge when they hit a certain voltage (~3.6v per cell on lipo IIRC?)
I don't think there is anything you can do from the computer side unless it tells the device itself to pull the full 500ma when it would try to pull less (for fear of overloading a USB interface, as there are usually 2 ports per USB port on a computer (IIRC.)
IMO, just use a powered USB hub?
Winmo custom roms had a quick-charge feature built in to a lot of them.
I don't think anyone fried anything.
This thread belongs in QnA though unless the op is actually developing something.
Did any naysayers even bother to look at the link? It is for Asus brand mobos only. And only certain ones are supported. Surely Asus isn't going to release an app that would fry the port...
Sent from my ADR6400L using XDA App
lafester said:
Winmo custom roms had a quick-charge feature built in to a lot of them.
I don't think anyone fried anything.
This thread belongs in QnA though unless the op is actually developing something.
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Thinking of developing the software for it...
Syco54645 said:
Did any naysayers even bother to look at the link? It is for Asus brand mobos only. And only certain ones are supported. Surely Asus isn't going to release an app that would fry the port...
Sent from my ADR6400L using XDA App
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As pointed out here, this is not JUST simply software. This is the software portion of a hardware feature on Asus motherboards. The boards have a separate controller in them that allows more amperage to specific USB ports for the purpose of charging particular, high amperage items (ipad, iphone) only. As also stated here, the USB standard is a fixed 5V .5A and this isn't something that can simply be modified via software as the controllers themselves would have problems managing higher draws (not really the physical ports).
The only application this would have would be to users with those specific boards IF the software can be hacked to allow that amperage on the Nook. It may also be worth mentioning that the Nook's internal connector is different and the higher power provided by the wall charger is not over the standard USB VCC pins on the connector. I'm not familiar enough with the wiring inside the device to say for certain, but the standard charge connections from USB may be a different path than the wall charger on a charge controller.
Quick Edit: This actually doesn't appear to be the same as their hardware specific version, which most likely makes it even less useful. It looks like this enables charging in multiple standby modes and most likely forces the port to full amperage; which is typically only done after the device negotiates with the system, initial port power is much lower. My device manager shows the Nook pulling it's full 500mA already, so unless you're trying to do a lot of charging while your computer is in standby, this isn't gonna be of much use.
Edit 2: Quick bounce around the internet shows this app as causing a bit of instability and BSODs. May not be everyone, so if you're still testing this let us know if you're stable.
Infraded said:
As pointed out here, this is not JUST simply software. This is the software portion of a hardware feature on Asus motherboards. The boards have a separate controller in them that allows more amperage to specific USB ports for the purpose of charging particular, high amperage items (ipad, iphone) only. As also stated here, the USB standard is a fixed 5V .5A and this isn't something that can simply be modified via software as the controllers themselves would have problems managing higher draws (not really the physical ports).
The only application this would have would be to users with those specific boards IF the software can be hacked to allow that amperage on the Nook. It may also be worth mentioning that the Nook's internal connector is different and the higher power provided by the wall charger is not over the standard USB VCC pins on the connector. I'm not familiar enough with the wiring inside the device to say for certain, but the standard charge connections from USB may be a different path than the wall charger on a charge controller.
Quick Edit: This actually doesn't appear to be the same as their hardware specific version, which most likely makes it even less useful. It looks like this enables charging in multiple standby modes and most likely forces the port to full amperage; which is typically only done after the device negotiates with the system, initial port power is much lower. My device manager shows the Nook pulling it's full 500mA already, so unless you're trying to do a lot of charging while your computer is in standby, this isn't gonna be of much use.
Edit 2: Quick bounce around the internet shows this app as causing a bit of instability and BSODs. May not be everyone, so if you're still testing this let us know if you're stable.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You have to use the nook's cable to quick charge. I believe it's the same on the USB side but different on the NC side.
Thanks Infraded for the helpful reply. I did a quick search and it seemed it caused more trouble than it's worth (BSOD, etc). I'll dig deeper.
I had the same issues with my iPad. If your motherboard vendor supports it, they have a BIOS update that adjusts the USB ports to charge things like the Nook and iPad.
khaytsus said:
USB Standard is 500mAh. If you somehow force your port to deliver more power you could fry it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Some dell laptops (my 5400 has it) have an option in bios for USB Power Share, where they allow USB devices which know if they are connected to to wall chargers or USB plugs to charge as if they were on wall chargers.
Its epic win.
In the NC teardown, didn't they discover that the Nook Color actually uses a custom micro USB connector which is backwards compatible with the standard? It goes on to say that the NC charges only through a pair of 12V pins on the USB cable that is provided with it out of the box, and in fact when you connect your NC to your computer it is *not charging at all* even if your ROM says it is. This is consistent with my experience where the battery only goes down when plugged into my PC.
Needless to say you would need some pretty serious hardware hacks to get your PC pumping 12 volts to the USB cable.
mthe0ry said:
In the NC teardown, didn't they discover that the Nook Color actually uses a custom micro USB connector which is backwards compatible with the standard? It goes on to say that the NC charges only through a pair of 12V pins on the USB cable that is provided with it out of the box, and in fact when you connect your NC to your computer it is *not charging at all* even if your ROM says it is. This is consistent with my experience where the battery only goes down when plugged into my PC.
Needless to say you would need some pretty serious hardware hacks to get your PC pumping 12 volts to the USB cable.
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Um, no. The wall charger puts out 5 volts @ 1.9 Amps. Take a close look at the bottom of your own charger...specs are right there. Supposedly, the nook will only charge when the amperage is at least 1.9 amps. In practice it will charge as much as can minus the current it is drawing...usually more than a standard port can put out(.5A).
ie standard port = .5A
Nook draw is ~ .45A
total for charging is .05A....barely noticeable or in worst case not even enough to keep up.
Not to mention that many ports shut down entirely if they think they are sending out to much current.
send 12 volts into your nook and you will have found one of the few ways to brick it
edit: what these"hacks" for the usb ports do is raise the limiting on them to higher values..say 5 volts @ 1A or rarely 1.5A
Two of SMSC's family of transceivers supports up to 1.5A from dedicated charger ports.
Furthermore, I'm charging my nook color from my netbook right now with a standard non-OEM usb cable. So I don't think you need the standard one
Some basic info here:
http://www.smsc.com/media/Downloads/Product_Brochures/usb333x_334xfs.pdf
ace7196 said:
Two of SMSC's family of transceivers supports up to 1.5A from dedicated charger ports.
Furthermore, I'm charging my nook color from my netbook right now with a standard non-OEM usb cable. So I don't think you need the standard one
Some basic info here:
http://www.smsc.com/media/Downloads/Product_Brochures/usb333x_334xfs.pdf
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Click to collapse
Yeah, I'm thinking that the extra pins in the stock cable are mostly for the led in there. Going back to work monday and ordering a spare for teardown purposes with my first check. I'll let you all know exactly what I find out.
mthe0ry said:
In the NC teardown, didn't they discover that the Nook Color actually uses a custom micro USB connector which is backwards compatible with the standard? It goes on to say that the NC charges only through a pair of 12V pins on the USB cable that is provided with it out of the box, and in fact when you connect your NC to your computer it is *not charging at all* even if your ROM says it is. This is consistent with my experience where the battery only goes down when plugged into my PC.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Except that it does charge on ANY source. If the NC is running and active it uses MORE CURRENT THAN 500mAh, so it won't charge any, but it's still getting 500mAh of juice.
If you turn off the screen, it'll slowly charge.... Around 10%/hr.
And I suspect that the 1.9A from the stock charger+cable comes from all 3 pairs, the standard pair + the two extra in the B&N cable, but it's possible that the stock cable only charges the extra two pairs. Regardless, it does charge from a standard cable on any USB port. The B&N ROM does not show charging unless it's charging at 1.9A.
ace7196 said:
Two of SMSC's family of transceivers supports up to 1.5A from dedicated charger ports.
Furthermore, I'm charging my nook color from my netbook right now with a standard non-OEM usb cable. So I don't think you need the standard one
Some basic info here:
http://www.smsc.com/media/Downloads/Product_Brochures/usb333x_334xfs.pdf
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can also confirm nook will charge off a standard USB (at least while I've got CM7), using the stock BN cable, and definitely faster than 10%/hour. Have been doing so off my work computer for a while now. I recall that this did NOT work while the NC was virgin unrooted, however, although occasionally there'd be this weird "bump" in batt level to 100% when first connecting. Have not seen that effect since going to CM7.
last night as a test I let my nook go to 10% remaining. Then I used my daughters LG Ally cable on the stock charger for 1 hour. It charged to 24%. Then I drained back to 10% and used the stock cable for 1 hour...result?....44%. There IS something special with the stock cable. I don't think there is any magic to the charger other than the amperage.
deadbot1 said:
last night as a test I let my nook go to 10% remaining. Then I used my daughters LG Ally cable on the stock charger for 1 hour. It charged to 24%. Then I drained back to 10% and used the stock cable for 1 hour...result?....44%. There IS something special with the stock cable. I don't think there is any magic to the charger other than the amperage.
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Click to collapse
Uh.. Yeah. As said a hundred times, the cable has 4 extra pins for charging on the MicroUSB side.

Power pack

Can anybody recommend an external power pack that works with the flyer/view? I was looking at this:
http://www.amazon.com/New-Trent-IMP...FO/ref=sr_1_20?ie=UTF8&qid=1324398340&sr=8-20
It will work with your Flyer, but it will charge much slower than the HTC power cord due to the USB connector. It may or may not keep your unit powered during normal use depending the way you use your device since the current supplied will be limited by the standard USB cable (~500ma) vs. the propriety HTC charging cable (1200 ma). I would test by powering your Flyer off a standard PC USB port and see, This should be roughly equal to what this device will supply.
Hmm, me thinks I just spotted hardware hack number 3.
globatron said:
Hmm, me thinks I just spotted hardware hack number 3.
Click to expand...
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lol
This would be great please keep us updated
I picked up a Dreamgear iSound 8000 ma model on sale from expansys, seemed like a nice unit and was supposed to be able to push 2amp but it's no faster with the HTC cable than a regular generic microUSB cable hooked up to a usb port. The biggest drawback was the thing completely died on me before the first cycle, I mean DEAD, won't charge and the flashlight doesn't even work. So much for on sale, return shipping $$.
Neil
As I posted previously in this thread it does not matter what current the source supply can provide. The cable is the magic. Standard cable, standard charge rate of 500ma which is about 30% of what the HTC charger will give you
DigitalMD, reread his post. He clearly states that using both the HTC flyer cable, as well as a standard micro USB, gives him no difference. So while your conjecture that "it does not matter what current the source supply can provide. The cable is the magic." is interesting, it is not, in fact, entirely accurate. Perhaps the cable is "the magic" in certain environments, but clearly not all.
No conjecture at all, in this case it is a fact. The Flyer cable has extra pins and conductors that are not in a standard USB cable. This tells the Flyer when a power supply is connected vs. a standard USB and the Flyer then allows for higher charging rate. Whit out that special cable, it will only charge at 500ma or aprox. 30% of the HTC power supply rate.
Actually less than that even. The htc charger runs at ~9v > 1amp. A lithium battery can rapid charge in the range of 900mA to 1.2A depending on the cell(s) in the battery.
There are two cells or two packs (can't tell which on visual inspection) in the flyer battery running in parallel. A proper htc charger running at 1A provides approximately 10W of charging power, a 5 volt source running at 500mA provides 2.5W so the USB charging will be 4 times slower.
As discussed in another thread shorting USB D+ and D- will allow the flyer to recognise a wall charger and charge at 5v 900 mA, the same could be applied to a battery pack capable of providing 900 mA sustained. It wouldn't be as quick as the wall charger but it is probably enough to provide for charging while using the device, rather than just slowing discharge.
On the question of leads, using a htc cable or standard micro USB makes no difference by default. When connected to a USB socket the flyer/view cable behaves like any other USB cable, the wiring modification is done inside the charger for a wall charger, and would most safely be done the same way for a battery pack.
The flyer internally uses a threshold voltage plus the D+ and D- pins to determine if it is charging from 5v or the dedicated higher voltage wall charger.
yes your post is a more accurate explanation, thanks
Thanks for the input. I will give that one a try and take my View cable with me. I have long road trip coming up.

Car charger question

I have a USB car charger that doesn't seem to charge as quickly as I would like it to. I say that by comparing it to previous phones and the rate at which they charged when plugged into it.
I read that you can short out the Belkin or Griffin USB charges to make it look like your phone is plugged into the wall. I'm not agains doing this because i like to tweak.
The question really is, I see that Proporta has a 4000mA (2000mA per port) dual port USB charger available. Will this allow my phone to charge like it's plugged into the wall or will it still "look like" I'm plugged into a USB prot charging?
- Cyber
Not exactly sure what you're asking, but I assume that you mean that a wall charger charges the phone faster than a car charger.
Unfortunately, I don't know if this is the case. USB is a universal standard with specific power requirements. Although there are medium and high power chargers out there, I would be reluctant to get something so extreme. I think USB calls for 500 mA standard, so I'd be careful using the charger you mention. You might want to do some more research on it, or contact the company about it.
I'm not an expert but my opinion is that usually USB-Wall charger supplies up to 1000 mAh (written on power supply transformer) while the USB-OutPC is only 500 mAh, in fact, I've noticed that the full charge of my Titan takes double the time if charged via PC.
Not sure about the amount supplied by cars USB adapter.
...my two amperes...
Some of the chargers accomplish support for things like the iPad 2 by shorting the two USB connectors. Some advertise things like 2000ma, but fail to deliver much more than 500ma. I am not sure if this is due to the choice of shorting out the data connectors to trick your phone in to thinking it is plugged in to the wall.
Back in the WM 6.5 days, you could accomplish this at the phone driver level and did not need to modify your chargers.
I would not worry about trying something rated higher as your phone would regulate the current. I personally intend to do my experimentation by shorting out the cable rather than the charger (cables are more easily replaced). Unfortunately, there is no app for WP7 that can measure the charging current, so the only way to do this scientifically is to use the battery status app and measuring the charge rate over time.
If you do the mod, post back and let us know. When I get around to the USB cable experiment, I will post back as well.

Generic USB chargers, are they the same?

I have four chargers that follow the same basic design, plug-in socket at one end, USB port at the other so you have to use the USB-data cable to charge the phone. I have one for my son's Sony Xperia Go, my ASUS Transformer Infinity tablet, my old HTC Wildfire and my even older Sony Ericsson Xperia X1i... what I'm wondering is that since they all use the USB standard, could they be interchanged without damaging the battery of the phone/tablet? Can one assume that the voltages and currents and everything (I'm no electrical guru obviously) are the same? Oh and I do actually own a SGS2 but that uses a different kind of charger anyway so it's irrelevant really...
Should be the same.
Sent from my A100 using xda app-developers app
pietpodlood said:
I have four chargers that follow the same basic design, plug-in socket at one end, USB port at the other so you have to use the USB-data cable to charge the phone. I have one for my son's Sony Xperia Go, my ASUS Transformer Infinity tablet, my old HTC Wildfire and my even older Sony Ericsson Xperia X1i... what I'm wondering is that since they all use the USB standard, could they be interchanged without damaging the battery of the phone/tablet? Can one assume that the voltages and currents and everything (I'm no electrical guru obviously) are the same? Oh and I do actually own a SGS2 but that uses a different kind of charger anyway so it's irrelevant really...
Click to expand...
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Regarding the voltage one can assume that a charger with an USB port always will supply a voltage of 5 volts.
However the wattage of the chargers will differ. This is not really an issue as the charging current is basically controlled by the capabilities of the device to be charged (your phone) and not by the capabilities of the charger. This holds true as long as the charger is able to keep up with the current requirements of the device. This too is generally not a problem at all.
When it comes to the time it takes to charge a device, things can differ quite much.
Assuming you do not have a kernel like for example Siyah installed (and tweaked charging settings) your phone will set the charging current according to what it detects on the USB port. If it detects a standard USB port (Laptop for example) it will charge with a lower current. If it detects a dedicated charging device it will draw much more current and the charging will hence take less time. This detection (USB port or dedicated charing device) depends on the impedance between the two data lines D+ and D- of the USB cable. A dedicated charging device will have a low impedance or to put it simple: a charger should have a short between D+ and D- to be detected as such. This short is part of the charger not part of the USB cable (this allows you to charge the phone with any standard USB cable).
At any time you can use Settings > About Phone > Status to check the Battery Status. If it shows Charging (USB) then a standard USB port has been detected and charging will take more time. If however it shows Charging (AC) then a dedicated charger has been detected and charging will take less time.
Last but not least you might experience one more difference between the chargers: the amount of noise (ripple on the 5V DC) they generate. The less the better. The ripple on some chargers is that bad that the touch screen will be absolutely unresponsive during charging. The original Samsung and many other chargers are fine, but I have some low cost models here that make using the touch screen during charging impossible.
Generally I would answer your question like this: yes, chargers with USB connectors are interchangeable. However the charging result might differ quite much.

questions concerning dash cables

Do we know for sure why it is that dash charging only works work the dash cable. Is it a DRM issue or a design element that needs to be licensed.
I'm not too stressed out because I plan to use a standard usb c cable for overnight charging but I am curious what is actually going on inside this charger.
I am quite familiar with OP official response concerning the matter, but given their track record of non answers, I'm assuming this situation is no different.
In other words I am curious what stops a company from releasing a cable that would in fact work. Possibly with the addition of some end user kernel changes. I understand this would be slightly impractical for a large company like Aukey or Anker to release a cable for one phone (that people could not use straight out of the box) however, my curiosity is still there
https://www.androidcentral.com/dash-charge has a good article on this.
---------- Post added at 12:53 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:47 PM ----------
Also, supposedly it's the same tech as http://www.oppo.com/en/technology/vooc - and anything "VOOC" branded will provide the same "dash charge" speeds.
Dougshell said:
Do we know for sure why it is that dash charging only works work the dash cable. Is it a DRM issue or a design element that needs to be licensed.
I'm not too stressed out because I plan to use a standard usb c cable for overnight charging but I am curious what is actually going on inside this charger.
I am quite familiar with OP official response concerning the matter, but given their track record of non answers, I'm assuming this situation is no different.
In other words I am curious what stops a company from releasing a cable that would in fact work. Possibly with the addition of some end user kernel changes. I understand this would be slightly impractical for a large company like Aukey or Anker to release a cable for one phone (that people could not use straight out of the box) however, my curiosity is still there
Click to expand...
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Simple Answer to this is the proprietary high amp usb type c cable which is supplied with the stock 5v 4amp power brick work well hand in hand, it is the way Oneplus has made this..one cannot work without the other so it is packaged deal..take it or leave..unless you are willing to compromise DASH Charge you can use any other type C cable and power brick adaptor
On a standard type-c (USB 3.1) cable connected to my PC, the phone slow charges. My other devices fast charge on this cable.
The other devices slow charge when connected to Dash cable and charger.
It leads me to think some very non-standards conforming USB tech is going on in the Dash gear, enough to make Benson Leung sick to his stomach. This isn't new to OnePlus, see https://plus.google.com/+BensonLeung/posts/JmcU4rA1csh
My advice would be to never use Dash gear with other devices.
Elnrik said:
It leads me to think some very non-standards conforming USB tech is going on in the Dash gear, enough to make Benson Leung sick to his stomach. This isn't new to OnePlus, see https://plus.google.com/+BensonLeung/posts/JmcU4rA1csh
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AFAIK this non-compliance thing has been there only in the first shipped cables and was fixed later on. So today's devices (this is already 2 years ago) should be compatible to USB standards and therefore other devices should load their battery at normal speed (not dash-speed) with the dash cables and dash plugs.
tobby88 said:
AFAIK this non-compliance thing has been there only in the first shipped cables and was fixed later on. So today's devices (this is already 2 years ago) should be compatible to USB standards and therefore other devices should load their battery at normal speed (not dash-speed) with the dash cables and dash plugs.
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Should, but I don't think it is. Q: why would the OP5 not fast charge over a normal type-c connection if it were standards compliant? Answer: it doesn't comply with standards.
Elnrik said:
Should, but I don't think it is. Q: why would the OP5 not fast charge over a normal type-c connection if it were standards compliant? Answer: it doesn't comply with standards.
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Amswer: OP5 doenst support any other quick charge methods (aka. QC 2.0/3.0, Adaptive Charging, Super Charging etc). It only supports normal charge or dash charge (& Vooc as dash is based on Vooc).
Also you should remember that different phones shows differently charging methods. Example Oneplus can maybe show normal 2A slow and Samsung as normal charge. Nexus 6P will show regular 3A charging as fast charging, Oneplus shows it regular charge.
For me if i use other C-cables (non-Dash charge one) it shows just "charging".
Regarding to Benson case... Original OP2 cable was non-standard. It didnt contain regular 56ohm thing. Oneplus fixed it later and dash charge cable is using standard things and also only for 3/3T/5 dash charge properties. For other phone you can use it without problems like use it to charge QC3.0 phones etc.
Sent from my OnePlus5 using XDA Labs
zige said:
Amswer: OP5 doenst support any other quick charge methods (aka. QC 2.0/3.0, Adaptive Charging, Super Charging etc). It only supports normal charge or dash charge (& Vooc as dash is based on Vooc).
Also you should remember that different phones shows differently charging methods. Example Oneplus can maybe show normal 2A slow and Samsung as normal charge. Nexus 6P will show regular 3A charging as fast charging, Oneplus shows it regular charge.
For me if i use other C-cables (non-Dash charge one) it shows just "charging".
Regarding to Benson case... Original OP2 cable was non-standard. It didnt contain regular 56ohm thing. Oneplus fixed it later and dash charge cable is using standard things and also only for 3/3T/5 dash charge properties. For other phone you can use it without problems like use it to charge QC3.0 phones etc.
Sent from my OnePlus5 using XDA Labs
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My point isn't so much about the cable as it is the device itself. It is a USB type-c device that doesn't conform to type-c USB standards.
There will be a plethora of usb-c ports on computers and chargers going forward. They are included on every new model of Apple, PC motherboard, and OEM PC - so type-c adoption is there and real. By ignoring these standards and producing a product with a proprietary design they are ostracizing their devices, and by extension their users, from simple and convenient charging methods. It ensures lots of sales of Dash chargers though.
It's a **** move straight from the Apple playbook. Apple made billions from the 30 pin to lightning connector change, and they will do it again with the lightning to Type-C change.
This Oppo/OP Dash charger isn't something consumers should be championing. It's not something Oppo/OP should be forcing on consumers either.
Elnrik said:
Should, but I don't think it is. Q: why would the OP5 not fast charge over a normal type-c connection if it were standards compliant? Answer: it doesn't comply with standards.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think your statement is accurate, the newer USB C Power Delivery specs allows voltages up to 20 volts and amperages up to 5 amps, the dash charger specs use 5 volts on 4 amps, well within USB C PD specs. The fact that their technology is proprietary does not mean it's not standards compliant.
There is also the very important difference between voltage and amperage, voltage is pushed to devices so it's always important that what you are using within the voltage required by the device. Amperage on the other hand is pulled by the device so the charger will allow the device to pull as much amperage as it needs as long as it doesn't go over it's own capacity. Think about your standard US outlet, it works at 120 Volts and at either 15 to 20 amps, you can connect as many 120V devices to it as long as you don't exceed its amperage.
That being said, the reason other usb cables don't work on the dash charger block is because the usb A side probably has different resistors, One + cables probably have higher resistors than regular, run of the mill usb C-A cables. That was the issue with the first cables that came out a few years ago, they had pull-up resistors with the wrong Ohm rating.
Here is a link to a PDF file explaining USB C Power Specs, keep in mind though that the eventual idea is to only use USB C-C cables and not the USB C-A cables that are the cause of so much headaches.
HueleSnaiL said:
I don't think your statement is accurate, the newer USB C Power Delivery specs allows voltages up to 20 volts and amperages up to 5 amps, the dash charger specs use 5 volts on 4 amps, well within USB C PD specs. The fact that their technology is proprietary does not mean it's not standards compliant.
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The listed power specs are only half the picture. The negotiation between devices is critical in getting those power numbers. That a OP5 can't draw above 900mA on a fully compliant 3.1 cable from a PD capable Type-C port shows it's not compliant. Its not negotiating power draw the way a standard Type-C device should.
And yes, I've already read all the spec docs. Thanks though.
Elnrik said:
The listed power specs are only half the picture. The negotiation between devices is critical in getting those power numbers. That a OP5 can't draw above 900mA on a fully compliant 3.1 cable from a PD capable Type-C port shows it's not compliant. Its not negotiating power draw the way a standard Type-C device should.
And yes, I've already read all the spec docs. Thanks though.
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The phone itself doesn't have to comply to anything, the chargers and cables do since they are the ones providing the charge. The standards are there to determine thresholds on how much and how little current they can work with. The circuitry on the phone and battery are the ones who tell the charger how much current they need to charge the battery without warming it too much or overcharging it. Different combinations of chargers and cables will give you a lot of different charging speeds but that's because there are so many chargers and cables with different ratings that devices err on the side of caution when they can't recognize the charger that it's being plugged into them. It's kind of a unfortunate thing that companies like Motorola, Huawei, OnePlus and Qualcomm use different charging specs but all of them work within the 15 to 20 watts of power for fast charging, so it's not a really big difference.
The reason for the difference in charging speeds between the dash charger/cable and other chargers is that 1 + charger offloads the current regulation to the charger itself rather than leaving current regulation to the phone, like other fast charging devices, that's why 1 + phones fast charge at cooler temperatures than other fast charging technologies.
Now, why your phone doesn't go above 900mA on a regular cable is beyond me, the first photo I attached is of my phone connected to the dash charger via this cable and the second one is of the same cable connected to this wall outlet.
Elnrik said:
Should, but I don't think it is. Q: why would the OP5 not fast charge over a normal type-c connection if it were standards compliant? Answer: it doesn't comply with standards.
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That's a fallacy. To comply with the standards does not mean, that everything is exactly the same. The USB-standard is a little bit more complex than just "pin 1 of one end has to be connected to pin 1 of the other end". The USB-standard defines what is allowed, so no devices will get damaged and to ensure a "minimum" data and power connectivity of let's say at least USB 2.0.
That's what these cables and chargers offer: They don't violate the USB standards. They allow a data connection with USB 2.0 also for non OP-devices. They also allow "normal power" (5V 500mA). They don't damage other devices. They just "work" as they should. But they offer "additional extras" (dash charging) when all three parts (charger, cable, phone) are compatible.
So they comply with the standards while offering additional features and that means, that other cables/chargers, which also comply with the standards but don't offer the extras, won't be able to dash charge.
Anyone tried to see whether using the oneplus cables on QC devices + QC wall plug supports Quick Charging?
I get 2a off my 3a rated PD c to c cables and 38w PD charger.
The only PD compatible android chipset I know of is made by mediatek at present.

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