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Hey! I have a fast, dumb, question! What does each partition do? I wanna partition my new SD card through amon_ra 1.5.2 and it says swap size, ext2 and FAT32 size... what's what! and whats the recommended for an 8gb card class 4
swap is not needed necessarily, it is used to store stuff when ram is going low. fat32 is the part where your music, pictures etc are stored (the part that gets mounted on your pc when you want to copy files), and ext2 is the part where apps2sd stores the apps.
ext2 (or 3 or 4) and fat32 are the filesystems that are created on the partitions, that is why they are called this.
kendong2 said:
swap is not needed necessarily, it is used to store stuff when ram is going low. fat32 is the part where your music, pictures etc are stored (the part that gets mounted on your pc when you want to copy files), and ext2 is the part where apps2sd stores the apps.
ext2 (or 3 or 4) and fat32 are the filesystems that are created on the partitions, that is why they are called this.
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i have 1028Ext2, 128swap and the rest is fat32! is that ok?
Shei77 said:
i have 1028Ext2, 128swap and the rest is fat32! is that ok?
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Click to collapse
not sure about the order, but basically yes. you don't need swap, and your ext is probably big enough for >3000 apps (read: too big), but as long as you are happy you can leave it that way.
kendong2 said:
not sure about the order, but basically yes. you don't need swap, and your ext is probably big enough for >3000 apps (read: too big), but as long as you are happy you can leave it that way.
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Click to collapse
really?Lol!
btw are apps supposed to take any "space"? In Modaco 2.9 i lost some internal space on all the apps i installed? is it supposed to take some memory from 100mbs of my htc hero internal memory?If yes, how to remove it, if not, omg modaco 2.9 was bad?
Also is having like 1000 apps making my phone slower? I dont actually have that many, i have 60 i think, if i remove some will it make it any faster?
Also, if i change my ext2 now to like 500mb will it delete any of my current apps or "break" anything?
apps take space from internal memory, search for "apps2sd not working", it is explained in these threads more than enough. you can move the dalvik-cache to the ext partition, then you won't loose any internal space. doesn't seem necessary, i have about 280 apps installed and still 16mb internal left. having the apps does not slow down the phone, only extends the time for first boot after flashing. apps only make the phone slower when they are running, which i control with autostarts.
if you change the ext size partition your apps will be deleted, as will be the rest of the contents of the sdcard. there ways to do it without deleting anything, but frankly, when you need to ask it would be too complicated. would be more effort than make a backup, copy the contents of your sdcard to pc, repartition, copy contents back and restore the backup. that's the way to go btw.
if you uninstalled some/a lot of apps you can regain a few mb by deleting dalvik-cache from recovery. first boot after that may take a while.
kendong2 said:
apps take space from internal memory, search for "apps2sd not working", it is explained in these threads more than enough. you can move the dalvik-cache to the ext partition, then you won't loose any internal space. doesn't seem necessary, i have about 280 apps installed and still 16mb internal left. having the apps does not slow down the phone, only extends the time for first boot after flashing. apps only make the phone slower when they are running, which i control with autostarts.
if you change the ext size partition your apps will be deleted, as will be the rest of the contents of the sdcard. there ways to do it without deleting anything, but frankly, when you need to ask it would be too complicated. would be more effort than make a backup, copy the contents of your sdcard to pc, repartition, copy contents back and restore the backup. that's the way to go btw.
if you uninstalled some/a lot of apps you can regain a few mb by deleting dalvik-cache from recovery. first boot after that may take a while.
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so apps shouldnt take ANY internal memory? if they do i should move dalvik-cache from amon_ra or apps2sd?
autostarts btw?
how to remove dalvik-cache from uninstalled apps? aint it supposed to be auto-deleted when i uninstall apps?
Shei77 said:
so apps shouldnt take ANY internal memory? if they do i should move dalvik-cache from amon_ra or apps2sd?
autostarts btw?
how to remove dalvik-cache from uninstalled apps? aint it supposed to be auto-deleted when i uninstall apps?
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they are supposed to take internal space, because they use some space from dalvik-cache. if you move the dalvik-cache to the ext partition of the sdcard then the space is not taken from the internal memory but from the sdcard, obviously...
check the market, with autostarts you can stop applications from being started automatically.
like i said, clear dalvik-cache in recovery image via the menu item and then wait a few minutes for the phone to reboot...
kendong2 said:
they are supposed to take internal space, because they use some space from dalvik-cache. if you move the dalvik-cache to the ext partition of the sdcard then the space is not taken from the internal memory but from the sdcard, obviously...
check the market, with autostarts you can stop applications from being started automatically.
like i said, clear dalvik-cache in recovery image via the menu item and then wait a few minutes for the phone to reboot...
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may i ask, how can i move the dalvik-cache to my SD card? i actually want my apps to take NO memory AT ALL on my internal memory..
Above the hood
Well today I intended to answer voyager's problem which was stated in the interactive data2sd thread located here http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=23744977#
and then i think that after i have gathered so much information from the other parts of the world into this little post it would be a waste if it is pushed away by regular posts in the thread. so, i opened this thread here in the general forum so all people with similar confusion can read about it.
YES, there are SO MANY WORDS TO READ. but in order to use a2sd+ or data2sd+ you MUST read them all
you will never know how frustrated i was when i was encountering the bootloop problem for the ENTIRE month.
my report thread - http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1239063
my help-seeking in the darktremor thread which was answered by famous developer temasek - http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=17232233
my target was originally voyager the person but now its to all of you, please ignore my incorrect pronouns, if there are any
OH FINALLY i luckily found the very useful reference that i have read before!! after reading these you will understand everything
tobydjones said:
Some phones, eg the Desire, don't have enough internal memory (NAND). A2SD and other 'init.d scripts' fool Android into storing various things on the SD card instead of internal memory to free up space. They can move either apps, the Dalvik cache (a pre-compiled copy of each app) and/or app data. And they can move them to either the 1st (only) partition of the SD card (formatted as FAT or FAT32) or a 2nd partition of the SD card (formatted as ext3 or ext4).
As there's so many different scripts doing different things, I had to make a table to sort it all out. Please let me know if I've made any mistakes, or if you can answer any of my questions in italics.
script ................ apps . Dalvik . data .. comment
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A2SD pre Froyo ........ SD ... int .... int ... Made to move app data to SD {or was it already ext?}
Froyo A2SD/"move to SD" SD<1>. int<9> . int ... Built in
Gingerbread A2SD ...... SD.... int .... <6> ... Built in. As Froyo but a bit more space.
apps2sd app (on market) ....................... App to make Froyo/Gingerbread "move to SD" easier, not a script
Force2SD (on market) .. ....................... As apps2sd + move system apps>SD {does apps2sd also do this?}
A2SD/AS2D+ (or apps2SD) ext<8> in/ex<2> int ... Various implementations<7> some move Dalvik (manual/auto)
Darktremor A2SD/DT-A2SD ext .. in/ex... int ... Move Dalvik. Used to be auto, now command line (or use A2SDGUI)
MIUI_Au PC-A2SD ....... ext .. ext .... int ... Allows android to boot if SD Card broken/removed. With logs
Link2SD (on market) ... ext .. ext .... <6> ... Moves apps individually
Sibere DATA2SD ........ ext .. ext .... ext<3>. Moves whole /data folder to ext for more space <4><5>
DATA2EXT .............. ext .. ext .... ext ... {another implementation of DATA2SD? how does it differ?}
data2whatever/DATA2WE . ext .. ext .... ext ... Can use ext2-4 plus variety of unusual filesystems eg B(RT?)FS
Notes:
<1> The SD card is mounted very late in the boot up process, so background apps and widgets won't work. Also apps on SD aren't available when SD card is used as a disk ('mounted')
<2> Dalvik on SD/ext may wear out SD card a bit quicker {not a big issue compared with int memory wearing out?}
<3> Data on ext wears out SD card faster because of data writes {how much of an issue is this?}
<4> Data2SD on Sense ROMS - possible corruption during battery pull or forced reboot
<5> Data2SD on ASOP ROMS - corruption when turning off phone due to unclean dismount {or is this fixed now?}
<6> GB doesn't move all of data, but does move app libs (/data/data/<appname>/Lib)
<7> There's a lot of confusion what AS2D, AS2D+ and apps2sd refer to, and the distinction between them, as those names been used for many things, including an app on the market! The + appeared after Froyo was released and often means the Dalvik cache can be moved (not always automatically)
<8> Unlike moving apps to SD, you can move widgets to ext, and apps are available when SD card is used as a disk
<9> If Dalvik cache is on int, number of apps is still limited as pre-compiled copy of each app held in cache
Updated 01/10/11. Thanks to rootSU, fllash & rmcsilva for corrections and additions
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neoKushan said:
Ok, so here's the deal, in a very longwinded way that should hopefully explain everything and answer ALL questions.
You have an SD card in your phone and, a bit like normal PC Hard Drives, you can "partition" them (split them into two or more sections of different filesystems). Normally, your SD card is just one big FAT32 partition, which is fine for storing your pics, messages, emails, etc.
Now, other then your Phone's SD card, your phone will have its own internal flash memory (or "NAND") storage. Tradditionally with Android, you could only install applications to this NAND storage, you cannot install them onto your SD card. So if you have an empty 32GB SD card, but only 5Mb of internal phone storage, you still wont be able to install many apps, if any at all.
This was done to protect the apps from things like piracy - it's not easy to access the location where apps are installed on your phone's internal storage (normally impossible without root), so you can't for example buy an app, copy it, refund it, then install it again.
Still, this is no good for those of us who like to install lots and lots of apps, legitimately, as we run out of internal storage very quickly.
So Google came up with a way to install apps to the SD card. A folder is created called something like .android_secure and this stores (I believe) encrypted versions of applications, but there's a few catches:
1) Apps aren't automatically stored here, you have to manually "move" them
2) Not all apps are capable of being moved, in fact most apps aren't, the developer needs to update their app and allow it. Some apps aren't and wont be updated and some developers may not want to allow it for whatever reason.
3) Not all app data is moved, most of it is but some data is left on your phone so many people still run out of internal storage quickly.
4) You can force ALL apps to be moved to this area by default, but it breaks incompatible ones - such as Widgets, which are unable to load due to the SD card not being "prepared".
So that's Froyo's version. Before Froyo existed, some very clever people came up with a thing called "Apps2SD". Remember I said that your SD card normally is one big FAT32 partition? Well, Apps2SD works by having your SD card patitioned into TWO filesystems. A normal FAT32 partition for your usual stuff and a secondary "EXT" partition. EXT is just a filesystem, like FAT32 or NTFS, but it's the filesystem used by Android internally. The SD card is normally FAT32 because it's a "universal" filesystem, that just about any machine will be able to read, whereas EXT filesystems are generally Linux only, but I digress.
EXT has several different versions. The most common one you'll see is ext3. The main difference between ext2 and ext3 is "journaling", which is just a fancy way of saying that should an operation (such as copying, writing or reading) be interrupted unexpectedly (say, by you turning your phone off), then no data should be lost or corrupted. You know how when you turn your phone on, it says "preparing SD card"? It takes a few minutes, but what it's actually doing is checking that the FAT32 partition hasn't been damaged, because FAT does NOT have journaling. If you used a computer back in the Windows 98 days, you may remember that lovely blue "Scandisk" screen that had to run every time you didn't shut your computer down correctly - that's the same thing. But then Windows 2000/XP came along with NTFS, which also has journaling, meaning you had less chance of loosing data. But I digress once more.
So you have your SD card partitioned into EXT and FAT32. Generally it doesn't matter if it's ext3 or ext4, but you don't get any real advantage with ext4 over ext3 in this instance. Apps2SD then runs a special script on your phone which "symbolically links" the folder from your phone's internal storage where your apps are normally stored, to the ext partition on your SD card. A symbolic link is a bit like a shortcut for folders, except it's transparent to the OS: In other words, Android doesn't know that when it's installing it's apps to the internal phone storage, it's actually being stored on the SD card. This effectively boosts your internal phone memory from the previous 5mb that you had in my example above, up to whatever size you made the ext partition on your SD card (often 512Mb or 1Gb, but it depends on how many apps you install).
Plus, because it's "journaled", it doesn't need to be "prepared", meaning it's ready to go as soon as the phone starts - so your widgets and apps work immediately (unlike "forced" Froyo Apps2SD, where widgets disappear).
The catch with Apps2SD is that whatever space the ext partition takes up is taken away from the SD card. So if you have a 4Gb card (with something like 3.5Gb of actual storage) and you make a 512Mb ext partition, your SD card will "shrink" to 3Gb. The space isn't actually lost, it's just being used by the ext partition. If you reformat your card, you'll get it back.
Finally, there's a difference between "Apps2SD" and "Apps2SD+". Remember I said that your apps are stored on a special folder inside your Phone's NAND storage? Well, that was a bit of a lie. It's actually stored in TWO places. There's a second area which is called the Davlik Cache. You don't really need to worry about what this is for (Hint: IT's to do with the Java runetime your phone uses to run apps), all you need to know is that apps use it to store data, which also eats up internal phone memory. Apps2SD+ moves davlik cache to the ext partition on your SD card as well, freeing up even more space. Some people believe that this may come at the cost of performance, as the internal NAND memory should be faster than your SD card (Which is why you also get people arguing over which "class" SD card is better for Apps2SD - the logic being that a faster SD card means less impact from this move), but the truth of the matter is that your applications will be running from your Phone's RAM anyway, so performance isn't really impacted at all. Since most apps are only a few hundred Kb's in size, or a couple of MB at the most, it's a non-issue.
Finally, any recent version of Apps2SD/Apps2SD+ should work with an SD card that is or isn't formatted with an ext partition. It'll check for this partition when your phone first boots and if it's not there, just use internal phone storage.
Having an ext partition WITHOUT Apps2SD+ shouldn't cause any issues, either, so you can format your SD card whenever you're ready.
So in summary:
Apps2SD "fakes" your phone's internal memory and puts it all on a hidden section of your SD card.
Apps2SD+ pushes even more content to the SD card, freeing up even more space on the phone itself.
"Froyo" Apps2SD has various limitations that "old" apps2SD does not, but is much easier to handle as it doesn't involve any kind of "partitioning".
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
first, please consider the wording "app2sd+" used above can also be applied to "data2sd+" which should be the main purpose of this thread, because they are similar as they both use the sd-ext partition to store things. the only different is that app2sd+ only moves /data/app and dalvik cache but data2sd+ moves the entire /data partition
now based on my experience of how did i solve my bootloop problems even i install over 300 apps, is, not to integrate Froyo app2sd and app2sd+(or your data2sd+) then things will be fine.
as ive seen that voyager you have "moved all apps to sd" with froyo app2sd while you are TOGETHER using the script of app2sd+(or data2sd+). from the above explanation, your apps and data are now SHARED among /sd-ext and /sdcard/.android_secure which MAY lead to problems on our phones when it enters the process system after going through the bootanimation.
still remember the days and things we have discussed? it was in november when we first known each other i think my founding still applies to data2sd+
voyager20021 said:
For bootloops on Miks CM7 fist post he says
If you get bootloop or stuck at LG logo do next:
Sometimes Recovery can't format /system so you need to clear /system manually. You can do it with this zip (flash as always in recovery), or in mounts menu (clockworkmod recovery only), or with adb:
1. Mount /system in recovery.
2. adb shell rm -rf /system/*
You get 1 error. This is ok.
Will update if I found this bug.
Anyone tried that zip or adb fix? I am not so familiar with adb shell. The zip i think is incompatible or smth.
Franco, do you know if this has something to do with random reboots caused by moving too many apps to sd?
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Miasmic said:
me.
that successfully wiped system partition and 2 months ago i did full wipe (including /system) and reinstall everything then do the same thing, and i got the same results - bootloop
please go to darktremor's main thread (nexus one dev forum) and scroll a few pages back, ive been yelling there for help and they did a lot to help me especially temasek(u know who? a famous n1 developer)....
but finally we got no conclusions trying everything, even switching to s2e had ****ed up my phone.
what solution i can tell is that
fk kernel + mik + dt a2sd script 2.7.5.2-1
+ apps staying on /EXT (shown "on phone")
= no problems
fk kernel + mik + dt a2sd script 2.7.5.2-1
+ apps staying partly on /EXT and partly on /android.secure (shown "on SD card")
= after booting (seen lockscreen) for about 3mins, the phone goes back to bootanimation and boot again
[im sure voyager is asking about this]
p.s. fk kernel + mik + dt 2.7.5.3 beta4
will result in LG logo stuck every 2 reboots. wipe /system no help.
hope my info is useful and yeah, take alook at the dt thread
until now the only solution is not to move apps partly to /android.secure
Sent from my LG-P500 using XDA Premium App
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Click to collapse
franciscofranco said:
Why move apps to sd card instead of /ext? doesn't make any sense............. No wonder **** happens...
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Miasmic said:
Yea I agree with your point, moving the app only to /ext is apparently a safer method than dividing it into /ext and /android.secure
But however this method (using darktremor together with froyos a2sd feature) can save even more internal storage on our phones because darktremor doesn't move 100% of the "app" to /ext. Except "app data" , a small portion of "app" is also occupying the internal storage when using dartremor.
Say angry birds, despite its ~500kb /data size, when using darktremor, 18mb its "app" is moved to /ext while 2mb of it is staying in the internal storage. When using froyos a2sd feature, this 2mb is moved to /android.secure therefore even more internal space is free-ed.
According to the main darktremor thread, a user named bassmadrigal and even temasek himself, has stated that integrating darktremor "move to EXT" and froyos "move to FAT" does not produce any problems (at least on their nexus one) and can save even more space.
Well its not a problem for me as I only move 4 of my biggest apps to FAT and not having issues now.
I think voyagers attempting to move a lot of his apps (partly as they still partly stay at /ext) to /android.secure (as I tried before) and he got ****ed up like me before.
Hmmph I am not quite sure, voyager have you tried the same procedure (restore titanium and move them to FAT) without flashing Franco.kernel and only with the ROM (ans default kernel) and darktremor script installed? In that way we can see whether the "issue"(not at all but just an disadvantage of not supporting a feature) is about Franco's kernel or about our phones. cheers!!
Sent from my LG-P500 using XDA Premium App
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franciscofranco said:
Just don't mess with the part that stays in the phone, if you do you're on your own, it's just too damn obvious to waste my time with it, sorry :/
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Miasmic said:
yea, i definitely dont think it is of any priorities to request you to dig on this stuff and please dont, lol
was just telling my experiences to others and esp. voyager
Sent from my LG-P500 using XDA Premium App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yea, franco also said we shouldn't use the froyo app2sd function when we have already moved stuffs to the /sd-ext using app2sd+/data2sd+
therefore to prevent such abnormal behaviours on our phones we should treat our phones as Android 2.1 or before which does not have the capabilities to use froyo app2sd function to move things to /sdcard/.android_secure instead we should just let them be moved to the /ext partition.
i can confirm that yes there will still be decrease in internal storage because even you got data2sd+, there are something that cannot be moved from the internal storage to /sd-ext and we dont know what. JUST be fuxking sure that all your apps are stayed in "internal storage" (thats a way to fake the phone! you know) and they will be very safe in /sd-ext.
you may also like to install app2sd app but reverse the original concept of this app, i.e. to confirm NO APPS ARE EXISTING IN THE 2nd TAB (ON "SD CARD" with froyo function)
so, to test this out quickly, you may simply:
make proper partitions
wipe properly
flash rom
flash your a2sd+/data2sd+ script
boot phone
run the proper commands (for dt now i would dl a2sdgui and apply stuffs and let it reboot)
now restore titanium backup with INSTALL LOCATION set as "internal storage"
(in CM7 settings > application you may also choose "internal storage" to make sure everything is PURELY moved to /sd-ext instead of sharing among /sdcard/.android_secure with the froyo a2sd function) (however what i can tell you that this CM7 function is not working properly at least with my DT a2sd+ script therefore we have to double check whether it is in "INTERNAL STORAGE" when we install a new app) so now app2sd app came in handy remember is to reverse all apps to internal but not move them to so-called sd which was the original purpose of this app.
ok hope you understand what i meant and now you should not have bootloops
Under the hood
however, some users have reported that they have NO problems at all when they share their apps among /sd-ext and /sdcard/.android_secure. an example was bassmadrigal (located in the darktremor official thread)
maybe, it is phone specific. maybe, they have shared a less amount of apps as i myself can also confirm that the bootloop problems only occur if we SHARE A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF APPS among the two places.
and for your safety, at least to first eliminate the bootloops problems before doing any experiments, still follow the above and MOVE ALL OF THEM TO so-called "INTERNAL" (pure /sd-ext)
so you mean to say that keep all the apps in internal memeory and it will be safe in sd-ext with any a2d script rather than moving into sdcard?
There is one script i am tryingvhttp://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1342387. I dont have any script installed.But it is still giving me bootloops.
williamcharles said:
so you mean to say that keep all the apps in internal memeory and it will be safe in sd-ext with any a2d script rather than moving into sdcard?
There is one script i am tryingvhttp://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1342387. I dont have any script installed.But it is still giving me bootloops.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes, the message i would like to bring is rather simple and easy but most of the users are confused about "move to ext" and "move to FAT" and the BUTTON in the application manager of our phones show "MOVE TO SD" which is moving PART of the app to SD-FAT (android.secure) so they are now SHARED and will produce PROBLEMS.
This important point is what most of the script developers have forgotten to warn their users.
Remember to check your settings and ROM/kernels/partitions/scripts compatibility with each other before regarding the script solely as the cause of any problematic behaviour (best way to prove is to see whether there are someone using the same combination without problems
then, install the script, and start installing apps only into "internal storage" (to fake your phone as they actually goes to /sd-ext) and NEVER EVER touch the button "Move to SD" in the application manager then you should be fine as said in my first post, double check they are in the internal storage after you have grabbed a new app from market it will be fine to move it back to "internal storage" as long as you havnt reboot the phone.
Miasmic said:
yes, the message i would like to bring is rather simple and easy but most of the users are confused about "move to ext" and "move to FAT" and the BUTTON in the application manager of our phones show "MOVE TO SD" which is moving PART of the app to SD-FAT (android.secure) so they are now SHARED and will produce PROBLEMS.
This important point is what most of the script developers have forgotten to warn their users.
Remember to check your settings and ROM/kernels/partitions/scripts compatibility with each other before regarding the script solely as the cause of any problematic behaviour (best way to prove is to see whether there are someone using the same combination without problems
then, install the script, and start installing apps only into "internal storage" (to fake your phone as they actually goes to /sd-ext) and NEVER EVER touch the button "Move to SD" in the application manager then you should be fine as said in my first post, double check they are in the internal storage after you have grabbed a new app from market it will be fine to move it back to "internal storage" as long as you havnt reboot the phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Miasmic said:
yes, the message i would like to bring is rather simple and easy but most of the users are confused about "move to ext" and "move to FAT" and the BUTTON in the application manager of our phones show "MOVE TO SD" which is moving PART of the app to SD-FAT (android.secure) so they are now SHARED and will produce PROBLEMS.
This important point is what most of the script developers have forgotten to warn their users.
Remember to check your settings and ROM/kernels/partitions/scripts compatibility with each other before regarding the script solely as the cause of any problematic behaviour (best way to prove is to see whether there are someone using the same combination without problems
then, install the script, and start installing apps only into "internal storage" (to fake your phone as they actually goes to /sd-ext) and NEVER EVER touch the button "Move to SD" in the application manager then you should be fine as said in my first post, double check they are in the internal storage after you have grabbed a new app from market it will be fine to move it back to "internal storage" as long as you havnt reboot the phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Much simpler explained. We'll have to test your theory. Only now i use ungaze's script which is something like "everything2sd". The button reading move to sd or move to internal has no influence at all. And still having bootloops at some point. Only now the sd ext is 2Gb max, though it never got to fill it without that damn bootloop.
Thanks again MIASMIC for addressing one of the biggest remaining problems which keep us away from having a PERFECT AND COMPLETE O1, now when we are close to having the stable official CM7 and official or not CM9 which will bring so many and awsome STABLE ROMs based on those 2.
could anyone give me a clear explanation about swap. i found the term /cache and /system. i do not find any clear explanation about where the swap process takes places.
if i use swap2cache script, will the swap happen at sdcard or internal memory?
sory for noob question.
sony_84 said:
could anyone give me a clear explanation about swap. i found the term /cache and /system. i do not find any clear explanation about where the swap process takes places.
if i use swap2cache script, will the swap happen at sdcard or internal memory?
sory for noob question.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Swapping:
When the ram has very less free space the operating system moves the low priority processes from the ram and places them in the swap partition to make space for high priority processes .
When those low priority processes attain high priority the operating system moves that process from swap partition and places it in the ram.
This process of moving files to and from ram is defined as swapping and the partition which is used for storing these swapped files is the swap partition.
/cache is a partition which is utilized by programs. Programs place their files which are routinely used in the cache partition to reduce the processing time.
For example:
Gallery app saves all the thumbnails of all the pics and videos in the cache partition for fast access when the app is opened.
/system is the partition where all the operating system files are placed . This partition contains nothing but the files which are needed for the operating system to perform without any intervention by the user (both cache and system are generally write protected).
For example:
The folder C:\windows is the system folder in windows whereas /system is the system partition in android.
When you use the /cache partition for swap space you are using the phone memory and not the external memory.
you might want to google the term "zram" it is some what faster than swap to cache,
it compresses the ram memory and makes way for new processes and when the compressed memory is needed again, it simply uncompress them right in the ram memory. as it works with the ram memory itself it is considered to be the fastest.
(please correct me if I am wrong)
And don't be sorry for a noob question. Every experienced developer must have started as a noob and we are here to learn and share so questions are always welcome!
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gouthamthemostwanted said:
When the ram has very less free space the operating system moves the low priority processes from the ram and places them in the swap partition to make space for high priority processes .
When those low priority processes attain high priority the operating system moves that process from swap partition and places it in the ram.
/cache is a partition which is utilized by programs. Programs place their files which are routinely used in the cache partition to reduce the processing time.
/system is the partition where all the operating system files are placed . This partition is nothing but the files which are needed for the operating system to perform without any intervention by the user (both cache and system are generally write protected).
When you use the /cache partition for swap space you are using the phone memory and not the external memory.
you might want to google the term "zram" it is some what faster than swap to cache,
it compresses the ram memory and makes way for new processes when the compressed memory is needed again it simply uncompress them right in the ram memory. as it works with the ram memory itself it is considered to be the fastest.
(please correct me if I am wrong)
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great explanation brother, the only bad swap, in which damages the lifetime of sd memory, I remember when I used my old w8 swap took longer to copy files from PC to phone and vice versa, so I do not recommend doing swap is my simple opinion :highfive:
Swapping to external memory is never recommended unless you badly need swap partition and it's the only option you have. Swapping to external memory reduces the life of the external memory very quickly since swapping pages to and from external memory increases the number of read/write cycle count of the external memory which is a very important factor in the external memory's life.
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gouthamthemostwanted said:
Swapping to external memory is never recommended unless you badly need swap partition and it's the only option you have. Swapping to external memory reduces the life of the external memory very quickly since swapping pages to and from external memory increases the number of read/write cycle count of the external memory which is a very important factor in the external memory's life.
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so, when we use swap to /cache or /system , will it reduce the life of our internal memory ?? it means that it will break our gadget someday
sony_84 said:
so, when we use swap to /cache or /system , will it reduce the life of our internal memory ?? it means that it will break our gadget someday
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Theoretically yes,
It depends on how often the swapping takes place and practically in very extremely rare cases the internal memory fails due to swapping. (someone correct me if I am wrong)
External memory is designed in a way to have large space so it's transfer speed is the lowest.
Internal memory is embedded flash memory and has lower capacity compared to external memory and it has higher transfer speeds compared to external memory.
Ram is volatile memory designed for high speed data transfer.
If you are very much concerned about your life of external memory and internal memory then zram is your only option.
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gouthamthemostwanted said:
Theoretically yes,
It depends on how often the swapping takes place and practically in very extremely rare cases the internal memory fails due to swapping. (someone correct me if I am wrong)
External memory is designed in a way to have large space so it's transfer speed is the lowest.
Internal memory is embedded flash memory and has lower capacity compared to external memory and it has higher transfer speeds compared to external memory.
Ram is volatile memory designed for high speed data transfer.
If you are very much concerned about your life of external memory and internal memory then zram is your only option.
PRESS THANKS IF I HELPED YOU!
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if it's so , I just need to apply zram script ?
sony_84 said:
if it's so , I just need to apply zram script ?
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yes.
this is the script to be executed to enable zram.
i guess it should work with all kernels for our device (i guess)
i took it from rage kernel thread thread so the credits goes to DuMOHsmol
the script must be run at boot every time (copy it to etc/init.d folder)(provided you have init.d support).
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gouthamthemostwanted said:
yes.
this is the script to be executed to enable zram.
i guess it should work with all kernels for our device (i guess)
i took it from rage kernel thread thread so the credits goes to DuMOHsmol
the script must be run at boot every time (copy it to etc/init.d folder)(provided you have init.d support).
HIT THANKS IF I HELPED YOU!
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this is working great.
just to make sure, is this safe for internal and external memory??
Ya man! Nothing to worry. The main concept behind zram is to optimize the ram memory for system on chip devices (devices whose hardware can't be upgraded).
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I have a big problem if it is not normal or not, I just installed the rom based on android 4.1 (omega rom), did a full wipe, even format the internal storage was empty now, but for some reason there are 500 mb that are being used by a hidden folder called:'' system data'', which can not be deleted and also missing from Windows Explorer.
Is this normal? I would also like to clarify that the size of this ''folder'' for some reason is growing
And it will grow with any apk you'll install.
spamtrash said:
And it will grow with any apk you'll install.
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Thanks for the comment, then it is normal that in the phone's internal memory truth (which supposedly is 16GB)?
I do not understand is why they are there if i format the internal memory from recovery.
UP, please help me!! apparently this space: ''system data'' increases more and more for every application that installed, this means that applications are installed on internal memory space?
That 500MB is a partition on the sd card for.....you guessed it......system data.....note in the picture you took there is currently nothing in that partition
slaphead20 said:
That 500MB is a partition on the sd card for.....you guessed it......system data.....note in the picture you took there is currently nothing in that partition
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But if a partition, its size should not be still? because it increases and decreases in size?
Why is it then that partition increases when installing an app? and if uninstall the volume decreases ... assumes that applications are installed in "/ data/app" then that is what takes up space?
updates
any??
So I put Carbon on my wife's tablet after not touching it for over a year. Amazing that I can come here and get exactly what I need. What a great community!
I do have a question. I have a 16gb model and a 16gb card. I can see and use the card, no problem.
Using astro or other file manager, the directories seem weird. That's not a problem. The problem is, I can only use 1gb of internal storage - is there a way to get at the balance of that? Or is it lost forever?
Sounds like your NT has the BN's old 1GB allocation for the user-media partition instead of the new 8GB.
To get a 8GB allocation, you can restore the NT to stock ROM and take it to a B&N store to have the repartition done; or you can (Google) search for a repart.img SD-based tool which also does the repartition (and in the process restore the NT to stock ROM). Either way, you can use CWM recovery to back up your current Carbon ROM before the operation and then restore it afterward.
Ah, I completely forgot about this little point. Thank you for the reminder and the options!
One more question from me about this, does it make sense in CM to have two internal storages anyway? Couldn't I just reformat it to have only one partition?
I know how to use parted, so this isn't why I am asking. I just wanted to ask here about potential other side effects.
I already reformatted that my internal memory is about 4GB and my sdcard0 storage is 10GB, but now I installed a huge app in internal memory which can't be moved to SD for some reason, and I want to at least reformat it the other way around or the default 12GB sdcard0 + 1GB internal
All apps are installed in the first internal memory anyway I have figured, so I don't know why this first sdcard0 does make sense at all? I first thought that would be used for apps, but currently there are 10 unused Gigabytes....
I am using a real sdcard in the device ( which is per default mounted as sdcard1 ), maybe that is the reason nothing is put on the internal sdcard0 ??
Any comments on this?
I'd also like to know if this can be done. I've read the posts that explain how to resize partition 10 (media) and 11 (user data), but I would like to know if it is possible to combine partition 10 and 11 into a single partition so that all available space that isn't used by the system can be used for apps and other data. Is this not possible because of different file systems or is there a way to do it?
I've also noticed that even though the Nook Tablet 16 GB physically has 1 GB RAM only 672 MB is recognized and the other 332 MB or so seems to be used as some type of virtual SD Card (this can be seen in Settings -> Apps -> On SD Card). Is there a way to make the entire 1 GB recognized and utilized? I have not been able to find any information on this anywhere.
I am running CM 10.1 on Nook Tablet 16 GB.
bluesock said:
One more question from me about this, does it make sense in CM to have two internal storages anyway? Couldn't I just reformat it to have only one partition?
I know how to use parted, so this isn't why I am asking. I just wanted to ask here about potential other side effects.
...
Any comments on this?
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Click to collapse
Combining the two partitions without tweaking the ROM will likely result in errors when the system at boot time attempts to mount the partition you eliminate, and when some apps reference the file-system that supposedly resides on that eliminated partition. To avoid these errors, the eliminated partition would have be removed from boot-time auto-mount list, and its file-system root would have to be mapped (e.g., symbolically linked) to the mount point of the remaining partition.
skelnik said:
I
I've also noticed that even though the Nook Tablet 16 GB physically has 1 GB RAM only 672 MB is recognized and the other 332 MB or so seems to be used as some type of virtual SD Card (this can be seen in Settings -> Apps -> On SD Card). Is there a way to make the entire 1 GB recognized and utilized? I have not been able to find any information on this anywhere.
.
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Click to collapse
The 'missing' RAM is what the OS needs to keep the device going. 672 MB RAM free sounds very reasonable. What you see in the list as apps on sd card is the virtual sd card in storage, not RAM.
Sent from my BNTV600 using Tapatalk 4
The "missing" RAM is actually shared memory for the GPU (the SGX540). Video cards need RAM to load textures and whatnot.
You might have noticed that desktops without a dedicated GPU have much lower system RAM than advertised. Ex: my laptop with 3GB of system RAM actually shows something like 2970MB RAM (instead of 3096MB). The 100 odd MB of RAM is shared by the GPU (Intel GMA). If I had a dedicated GPU in my laptop, something like the GTX M GPUs with its own RAM, I would see and be able to use the full 3096MB of system RAM. It's the same thing with mobile devices, they share system RAM with the GPU.
That makes sense about the shared resources for the system and graphics. Thank you for the explanation!
Okay, if that is all, probably changing /system/etc/vold.fstab after repartitioning/removing the emmc-sdcard-partition and symlinking the other of the partitions should do it already? Or how does the storage settings things finds the storage memories? Or is there even something a bit more deeply buried, e.g. inside the kernels initrd or something like that? Does someone know those details?
@skelnik as written in the other thread something more here ...
It probably isn't completely beginner friendly to do all this just by this information here, but I might attempt to do this too, and then will share the information as step-wise as possible. But might take some weeks until I have a bit time left...
And be aware! There probably will be some downsides when not using a physical/external sdcard at all: You will not have the internal storage accessible as a usb storage device anymore (not sure about mtp or ptp mode, but these don't access everything anyway) - so if you screw up something it might become harder to recover. You should then probably have at least some 2gb sdcard you can use, just in case. But my opinion is that you should just pay those $5 for a physical sdcard (should even give you 4 or 8GB already...) and then there won't be these problems.
Use Ineternal Storage as sdcard on Nook Tablet
bluesock said:
@skelnik And be aware! There probably will be some downsides when not using a physical/external sdcard at all: You will not have the internal storage accessible as a usb storage device anymore (not sure about mtp or ptp mode, but these don't access everything anyway)
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Actually you will still have access from the PC (Windows OS at least) to this partition after using the internal storage as an sdcard. You need to go into the USB Connection Settings under Storage and change it to "USB Mass Storage" mode. Also USB Debugging needs to be unchecked in order for you to get prompted to enable USB Connection to PC. After that you will be able to transfer data to and from your PC to the internal partition being used like an sdcard on your Nook Tablet. That partition is set to 10GB for me so that is a huge benefit and allows me to swap out multiple external sdcards any time without disabling any apps.
skelnik said:
Actually you will still have access from the PC (Windows OS at least) to this partition after using the internal storage as an sdcard. You need to go into the USB Connection Settings under Storage and change it to "USB Mass Storage" mode. Also USB Debugging needs to be unchecked in order for you to get prompted to enable USB Connection to PC. After that you will be able to transfer data to and from your PC to the internal partition being used like an sdcard on your Nook Tablet. That partition is set to 10GB for me so that is a huge benefit and allows me to swap out multiple external sdcards any time without disabling any apps.
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Click to collapse
Are you sure you mean the same thing as me? I am talking about removing one of the partitions and just making one large partition where both /data and a link from /sdcard into that will be. As far as I understood, Android does not do a virtualization of a path but really makes one of it's partitions accessible as usb storage? Or can you also format in ext4 and still read it in Windows?
If that works I am probably not right, otherwise read on:
All your configuration data and everything is on /data and would be removed from being accessible by the system as long as it is connected as usb storage (also all installed apps, ...), and besides that you would need to use the FAT filesystem for Windows compatibility, which is also probably not the best idea, security-wise (any app being able to read sdcard would for example be able to read your wifi configuration, maybe google account login data, etc. etc.).