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hi guys and gals and all you trolls : D
http://www.androidcentral.com/leake...and-you-wont?utm_source=ac&utm_medium=twitter
We just got our hands of a copy of the latest Sprint Playbook, and while we were hoping for some more info about the LG Marquee and Kyocera Milano, what we found was a bit, well, different. It seems that in order to stay competitive with Verizon and AT&T (Sprint's words, not ours), some changes are going to be made to several of the perks everyone on Sprint takes for granted.
For starters, the Sprint Premier program is coming to an end. Current members will be hearing from Sprint sometime after Sept. 16 with all the details, but the short version is starting at the beginning of this month, enrollment in the program stopped, and you'll have to use your current (and final) Premier upgrade on or before Dec. 31, 2012. In addition, the other smaller but just as appreciated perks like accessory discounts and annual anniversary gifts end Dec. 31, 2011. Employees have been instructed how to let everyone down easy, but this will sting no matter how you slice it.
Next up, is a major change to Sprint's 30-day=satisfaction guarantee -- it's getting cut by 16 days. Like we've seen other carriers do, Sprint will now be switching to a 14-day return policy. They will still return everything but the restocking fee, you just have a couple weeks less to make up your mind.
Finally, starting Oct. 2, the "New For You" upgrade time is changing from 22 months, down to 20. Cutting the time down by two months is nice, but will hardly take the sting of losing the yearly Premier benefit away.
Nothing good can last forever folks, and as Sprint reminds us, they have to do something to stay competitive. In the end, it's a business and sometimes you have to rob from Peter to pay Paul. We have some relevant pages of the Playbook after the break.
CheesyNutz said:
hi guys and gals and all you trolls : D
http://www.androidcentral.com/leake...and-you-wont?utm_source=ac&utm_medium=twitter
We just got our hands of a copy of the latest Sprint Playbook, and while we were hoping for some more info about the LG Marquee and Kyocera Milano, what we found was a bit, well, different. It seems that in order to stay competitive with Verizon and AT&T (Sprint's words, not ours), some changes are going to be made to several of the perks everyone on Sprint takes for granted.
For starters, the Sprint Premier program is coming to an end. Current members will be hearing from Sprint sometime after Sept. 16 with all the details, but the short version is starting at the beginning of this month, enrollment in the program stopped, and you'll have to use your current (and final) Premier upgrade on or before Dec. 31, 2012. In addition, the other smaller but just as appreciated perks like accessory discounts and annual anniversary gifts end Dec. 31, 2011. Employees have been instructed how to let everyone down easy, but this will sting no matter how you slice it.
Next up, is a major change to Sprint's 30-day=satisfaction guarantee -- it's getting cut by 16 days. Like we've seen other carriers do, Sprint will now be switching to a 14-day return policy. They will still return everything but the restocking fee, you just have a couple weeks less to make up your mind.
Finally, starting Oct. 2, the "New For You" upgrade time is changing from 22 months, down to 20. Cutting the time down by two months is nice, but will hardly take the sting of losing the yearly Premier benefit away.
Nothing good can last forever folks, and as Sprint reminds us, they have to do something to stay competitive. In the end, it's a business and sometimes you have to rob from Peter to pay Paul. We have some relevant pages of the Playbook after the break.
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I've said it before and I'll say it again: It's about damn time.
Am I happy about this? Not at all. But this was going to happen eventually. Sprint is bleeding money without compare. As long as they continue to offer decent coverage, great prices and fantastic customer service I'm all for it. They need to stay competitive. Not to us, they are already very competitive to us...they need to stay competitive to investors or risk a takeover most likely coming from Verizon.
***** and complain all you want, where you gunna go? T-Mobile? Unlikely. That whole law-suit from the DOJ is nothing but a dog-n-pony show.
Sprint has to offer unlimited service, the same fantastic rates, unparalleled customer service while at the same time improving it's network infrastructure all around in order to stand a chance...they know it and it's about time they started acting like it.
....with a strategic partnership with Google they could change the entire game by ditching the voice-n-text strategy and being the first to embrace the "everything is data" paradigm. It's coming. "voice service" all by itself is so, well, last century. We all know it's already digital, why convert back twice and charge us for something we can now do on our own?
...that's just my take...
Well to stay competitive they say. Really how is offering the same price as the other 2 competitive. owell here comes the throttling not now but soon
(doesnt say that but thats the path). Very disappointed indeed.
zer0-1ne said:
Well to stay competitive they say. Really how is offering the same price as the other 2 competitive. owell here comes the throttling not now but soon
(doesnt say that but thats the path). Very disappointed indeed.
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Well I'd have to say that Unlimited data plans and Unlimited data plans that are still $10-$20 cheaper than tiered (aka "limited data") plans is still a better deal....
....now they are on the same level with all of other companies for ETF and other "little things."
...and as I said they are already very competitive to us, far more than the other choices (besides the doomed T-Mobile)...but it isn't us they need to convince to not sell-out to Verizon, it's the shareholders....and that benefits us too.
As long as they keep the data unlimited, I could care about the other oerks
So much for upgrading annually that's the only reason i was with them
I am pretty disappointed in this news. I left at&t to come to sprint not just because of price but also because of the perks you get with being premiere. Annual upgrades, discounts on accessories, anniversary gifts, etc.
Yes. Price was nice but going to a company that ties verizon for customer service and appreciates its customers to give them a little something back once in a while really sold me on the idea.
The crappy thing is that just after I signed up for a plan that was sprint premier qualified, they switched to a tiered plan. So I was already like wtf! Not to mention that they also started to charge all smartphones a $10 premium instead of just 4g phones (though that didn't really effect me).
I can see the argument that says sprint needs to stop these perks in order to save a bit of capital in order to invest in the network, but I don't think this is a good move for sprint.
The fact is that sprint used to offer several perks that no other carrier did, and they were cheaper than the others. These extra perks made sprint very attractive. The tradeoff is that their network speeds are noticeably slower than their competitions. Many people take that tradeoff because of those perks.
I am betting that if people lose those perks, and all they are left with is an $8 a month savings, they will go to a more reliable network. This loss of customers will lead to a much greater loss of capital than these perks will. sprint still won't be able to invest in their network when they lose 25% of their customers. I just don't see this as being a a good move when you are trying to standout against the competition.
Sent from my PG86100 using XDA App
Sprint needs to keep something in mind:
Sure, they have unlimited data (for now anyway), but beyond that if they align themselves too closely with Verizon and ATT, they may actually need to provide a reliable fast data service.
Why do I have better data speed when roaming? Because sprints network is pathetic in comparison. And if they align too closely, everyone that has been satisfied with unlimited data and yearly upgrades might start to notice how poor their service really is.
i see people saying sprint has unlimited data this is true ... but for how long changes like this happened to VRW right before the iphone was announced . what finally happened .. data caps . only thing that was helping sprint is unlimited data ..
now that the premiere is gone the upgrade fee is jumping etf is jumping what's going to keep people around ?
surely not the data speeds ..
Another thing...while unlimited data is great and all, only something like 2% of people use even 2GB a month. The fact is that the vast majority of people are good with limited data. the huge data hogs that are all drawn to sprint and leave other networks. This clogs up sprints already lackluster network even more while freeing up a competitors network. plus, since only a small percentage of people come to sprint for the unlimited data plan, that means they really aren't gaining market share. And to make matters even worse the customers they do get aren't really profitable because they are consuming so much data...
Sent from my PG86100 using XDA App
This puts me close to my edge here. Been with sprint for over 10yrs as i was with nextel well before so i was enjoying my premier gold status and yearly upgrades.
This change will greatly make me rethink things when my yr comes up which will be in 2yrs as ill upgrade to whatever next yr while its still valid, and the yr after that will be the deciding factor. If I can't call and negeotiate getting the 2yr upgrade then walking i will likely be doing, and thats what will keep me here, long as i can call in and get the 2yr price ill stick here, first time that doesn't happen ill likely walk.
take away the silver status but **** reward something to the people that have stuck around through thick and thin 10yrs plus and let them upgrade every year!!
CheesyNutz said:
i see people saying sprint has unlimited data this is true ... but for how long changes like this happened to VRW right before the iphone was announced . what finally happened .. data caps . only thing that was helping sprint is unlimited data ..
now that the premiere is gone the upgrade fee is jumping etf is jumping what's going to keep people around ?
surely not the data speeds ..
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You be trolling hard!!!
You have ATT!
Sent from my PG86100 using Tapatalk
Amd4life said:
As long as they keep the data unlimited...
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+1
Ditto, I'm still pissed but yeah, I'd drop premier if it meant keeping my data unlimited, Just like it say's in Hesse's dictionary.
I draw the line at the costs & the data.
I love all 12Mbps down of my unlimited data.
so instead of upgrading every year we have to wait 20 months for new upgrades? that's gonna suck ****ing hard for me. really hard. im not one too hang onto a phone for too long. especially this one
Up next, tiered data. I dont know why anyone is surprised...
I understand why Sprint is doing it, but it really pisses me off. I upgraded my plan in July to make my plan cost enough to be a Gold Premiere member and it would take affect next month. Then I would be eligible for an upgrade because I didn't use on for the Evo 3D and planned on using that upgrade to get the Nexus Prime when it comes out. I will be calling Sprint and I will be complaining to see if I can get my upgrade or at least downgrade my plan back to where it was and get my $ back for the 2 months I spent at a higher plan which will probably be 3 by the time I talk to them.
No other carrier offers the yearly upgrade, so this will put Sprint more on par with other carriers. To me it is still the best deal because of unlimited across the board for less than tiered plans with other carriers.
I understand why they would get rid of most of the program but they are WRONG to do that to the 10+ year members......If they don't keep it for us they will bleed MANY of their longtime customers!!!!!! It's just dirty to do this to 10+ year customers!!!!!
Sent from my PG86100 using XDA App
Im a 10 year member too and very upset hearing about this. Im with Sgt Slaughter on this, the day i cant call in and upgrade is probably the day I walk.
Sent from my Evo3D
How useful is unlimited data when you get 100kbs download speeds with full 3G coverage? The only reason I'm with Sprint is because of all these little extra perks that they keep taking away. I've also been with Sprint for over 10 years and it's a real shame. I don't know about everyone else but in my area Sprint's backhaul is so bad that data speeds are absolutely ****! Particularly unusable during peak hours. Most of my friends have Verizon and although their bills are higher, they get awesome data speeds. There's also a rumor that Verizon will be getting LTE in my area soon. If that happens I would happily pay my EFT and sign up with Verizon. I've been waiting for 4G in my area since the release of EVO 4G and there's no plan of them adding it any time soon. I would sign with T-Mobile but they don't even have 3G data in my area. However, that actually might not be a bad idea because I only get 1X speeds on Sprint anyhow.
Soon, all the carriers will be offering very similar services. Sprint increased the ETF, added a few cents to the monthly bill, removed lots of perks they offered to premiere customers etc. With all these changes, how long do you think the unlimited everything plan will last?
Once Sprint upgrades it's 3g network to evdo rev b, that'll be the end of unlimited everything.
I was bored, and I had another question they did answer for me, then this happened, and I thought it was pretty funny. This is with VZW chat rep on their website of course.
I also e-mailed their Wireless side CEO concerning this, the unlimited data crap, locked bootloaders (want a GSIII but the bootloader...) and such. I cannot wait for the response.
ryan: so if you are on month 21 of the 24 month contract, what would the ETF be? Do you know?
Kareva: No, as it is different per account for various reasons. Are you looking to upgrade or add a new line today?
ryan: No I am looking to leave your company as you wouldn't move my upgrade forward by a few months, so I could upgrade to the GSIII and keep my unlimited data. Therefor you won't get my service any longer.
Kareva: Great! Would you like to number to customer care to find the ETF amount?
ryan: not now, and I am rather bothered that you are excited to lose customers. What kind of company is this...
Kareva: Well not so much excited, but it is your money and to see you leave because of something that is in a contract that you applied for, I can't be too mad. I hate that you will now have to deal with bad service, but your choice.
Kareva: Can I assist you with anything else?
ryan: lol what? I would rather take bad service from companys that don't lock bootloaders, don't strip unlimited data away from customers just for pure profit. Some people have morals, apparently not your company, or you
Kareva: Well is there anything else I can assist you with tonight?
ryan: oh so you can make accusations like that, but lack the balls to stand behind them?
Kareva: Is there anything else I can do for you today?
ryan: grow a pair and not make comments you won't stand behind. This will be e-mailed to your CEO.
ryan: Terrible customer service
Kareva: Have a great night and please come again. We thank you for being the greatest side of Verizon !
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That's not the first time I've seen their chat reps being very rude. A friend of mine posted her chat with one of their reps and that rep was rude as well. I don't understand how they can get away with being so rude and keep their jobs. If I acted that way at my job I would be out the door.
Wow they really don't care at all anymore. Big red is a giant a-hole
Sent from my ADR6425LVW using Tapatalk 2
adavit said:
That's not the first time I've seen their chat reps being very rude. A friend of mine posted her chat with one of their reps and that rep was rude as well. I don't understand how they can get away with being so rude and keep their jobs. If I acted that way at my job I would be out the door.
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Yeah it is terrible, I wrote this as the e-mail to the VZW CEO which also included the full chat between me and the rep. Can't wait for the response.
Hello,
I first off would like to state, that I am one of your customers rather upset by the choices Verizon has made in not letting us grandfather in on unlimited data, and forcing us to a tiered data plan, in what looks to be for nothing but pure extra unneeded profit. I probably will not be a customer for much longer due to this, and the fact that my upgrade is not terribly far away, but instead of moving it forward, and letting me get a galaxy SIII and keep my unlimited data, your company decided it was better to lose me. I am debating between buying a Galaxy SIII that your company has locked down which no other wireless provider has, or just paying the ETF and flat out leaving for another carrier now. I know my service wouldn't be as good as yours, but right now I don't feel as if your company deserves any more of my money, than I need to let you have. In doing so I joined your online chat to ask about the ETF. I wasn't bothered by the answer I got, but more so the excitement in the employees statement about me leaving verizon. I then was more bothered by the next statement made, that the rep then refused to respond too. I admit my responses ended up lacking a mature way of responding, but they were meant as intended. I think the employee realized their screw up as they forced me off the chat at the end. I would have been impressed with an "I am sorry I said that sir," but instead was treated like I ruined their day. I made sure to leave it up, so I can copy it here for you to read. I don't know if these are saved or not, but this is terrible behavior.
Loosing unlimited data, full price for phones, locked down bootloaders, and the way I have been treated by employees, are reason I will never come back or recommend verizon to anyone again. I stand with what I told the rep, I would rather stand behind my morals and have mediocre service, then lose them, and have great service.
I do give you a chance to change my mind, but I somehow don't see that happening.
Thank you for your time. (No my name is not ryan, but I had just ended a chat with my real name, with someone who was helpful, but forgot to ask about the ETF, and felt weird if I had ended up talking to them again.)
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That is hilarious, I guess u got a bad CS rep. I have come across plenty of stupid ones, overly polite ones, or just people who write like they are copying and pasting from a handbook but never one of those.
I'm not defending the chat rep but aren't most of their responses just form responses anyway? I never had anything resembling a "conversation", I just assumed they basically went from a script, much like reading back tech support steps.
mbarry55 said:
I'm not defending the chat rep but aren't most of their responses just form responses anyway? I never had anything resembling a "conversation", I just assumed they basically went from a script, much like reading back tech support steps.
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You really think that second response about other coverage sucking was script?
I know some answers are, but that doesn't feel that way. Which would explain why they wouldn't respond about it.
For the sake of playing devil's advocate I don't see anything too outrageous being said by the chat rep. Your comments come across as a little naive.
ryan: lol what? I would rather take bad service from companys that don't lock bootloaders, don't strip unlimited data away from customers just for pure profit. Some people have morals, apparently not your company, or you
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I mean at the end of the day they're a company who's primary goal is to, yes, make a profit. As they are honoring their current contractual obligations with you I don't really see this as a lack of morals?
For the record, I'm as unhappy about the changes and the bootloader annoyances and everything but we're kidding ourselves if we think this community represents the majority of wireless consumers. They are going to do whatever they want to do to turn a bigger profit. It's nothing personal, just capitalism...
nosympathy said:
You really think that second response about other coverage sucking was script?
I know some answers are, but that doesn't feel that way. Which would explain why they wouldn't respond about it.
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I'll say at&t has the greatest customer service, if you have any issues they will do anything to keep you with them. I only went to Verizon to get away from tiered data plans
My contract ends next year, by then I hope at&t has 4g in my area and I'll be switching to them
Sent from my ADR6425LVW using Tapatalk 2
usefulidiot127 said:
For the sake of playing devil's advocate I don't see anything too outrageous being said by the chat rep. Your comments come across as a little naive.
I mean at the end of the day they're a company who's primary goal is to, yes, make a profit. As they are honoring their current contractual obligations with you I don't really see this as a lack of morals?
For the record, I'm as unhappy about the changes and the bootloader annoyances and everything but we're kidding ourselves if we think this community represents the majority of wireless consumers. They are going to do whatever they want to do to turn a bigger profit. It's nothing personal, just capitalism...
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MOST companies understand that good customer service equals a greater profit, Verizon can get away with this because of their coverage and reliablity, but soon enough they will get bitten in the ass by this and change their ways
Sent from my ADR6425LVW using Tapatalk 2
i tried, they completely dodged the questions and ended the chat verizon is seriously the worst
Maddison: Hello. Thank you for visiting our chat service. May I help you with your order today?
bob: Hello I just want to say i am very dissapointed with verizons plans to screw people out of their grandfathered unlimited data or else i would be purchasing a new phone soon but instead im thinking of leaving verzion
Maddison: I will be happy to assist you with your order today.
bob: okay nevermind iguess you guys really dont care about it
Maddison: It has been my pleasure to chat with you today! Please feel free to re-open the chat session if you need further assistance . Thank you and have a great day!
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usefulidiot127 said:
For the sake of playing devil's advocate I don't see anything too outrageous being said by the chat rep. Your comments come across as a little naive.
I mean at the end of the day they're a company who's primary goal is to, yes, make a profit. As they are honoring their current contractual obligations with you I don't really see this as a lack of morals?
For the record, I'm as unhappy about the changes and the bootloader annoyances and everything but we're kidding ourselves if we think this community represents the majority of wireless consumers. They are going to do whatever they want to do to turn a bigger profit. It's nothing personal, just capitalism...
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regardless of how you feel. Verizon found a loophole to the forced unlocked bootloaders of the 700mhz spectrum. No other company forces you to drop unlimited if you renew. Also, as you said yourself, we make up a small percentage. Yet that small percentage is the percentage they on purpose try and control the most.
Also, yes their statement was bothersome. Should have gone, "I am sorry to hear that sir, but unfortunately there is nothing I can do for you concerning this issue you are having."
Not, Have fun with the competitions crappy service. Specially when they do not know who I am going too, they are making assumptions.
I understand capitalism, but this really isn't it. There is too heavy of an attempted monopoly attitude with these companies. They don't compete to earn your business, they assume you will get their business and you will do whatever they say, because of their phone and service offerings.
nosympathy said:
regardless of how you feel. Verizon found a loophole to the forced unlocked bootloaders of the 700mhz spectrum. No other company forces you to drop unlimited if you renew. Also, as you said yourself, we make up a small percentage. Yet that small percentage is the percentage they on purpose try and control the most.
Also, yes their statement was bothersome. Should have gone, "I am sorry to hear that sir, but unfortunately there is nothing I can do for you concerning this issue you are having."
Not, Have fun with the competitions crappy service. Specially when they do not know who I am going too, they are making assumptions.
I understand capitalism, but this really isn't it. There is too heavy of an attempted monopoly attitude with these companies. They don't compete to earn your business, they assume you will get their business and you will do whatever they say, because of their phone and service offerings.
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Yea alright I'm done playing devil's advocate, I think we're mostly in agreement here.
ijustwantmydock said:
i tried, they completely dodged the questions and ended the chat verizon is seriously the worst
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They used siri
Sent from my iPhone...
ijustwantmydock said:
i tried, they completely dodged the questions and ended the chat verizon is seriously the worst
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Lololol. Webchat is a joke.
I am not siding with the VZW rep on this but it is competition that makes various businesses update/change policies. VZW cannot be to blame as your requests do not fall under the contract for which you signed. People take things for granted, if you are grandfathered into a unlimited data plan you should be happy with it. If you give someone an inch, they'll take a mile.
The providers all suck, each in their own unique ways. If you find the one that gives you awesome coverage, unlocked stock top-of-the-line cheap phones, provides OS upgrades quickly, no EFTs and unlimited data for great prices- please let me know where I can sign up!
Unlimited data is going away for everyone, just give it enough time. Grandfathers don't live forever.
richii0207 said:
I am not siding with the VZW rep on this but it is competition that makes various businesses update/change policies. VZW cannot be to blame as your requests do not fall under the contract for which you signed. People take things for granted, if you are grandfathered into a unlimited data plan you should be happy with it. If you give someone an inch, they'll take a mile.
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No what people are mad about is lack of competition.
You have four major wireless companies. A bunch of smaller companies.
The companies all have their little "thing" the other companies don't offer to try and real you in.
What needs to happen, is every carrier gets the same phones. May not be interchangable, but if one company gets phone B, all companies get phone B. All versions of phone B will be exactly identical, minus maybe GSM/CDMA etc. that HAS to be different.
All phones will be UMRP and sold at a subsidized price per the MFG. All your major and minor companies will then only have to focus on a few things. Coverage, plans, speed, and price. They could control the price of the phones too, and things would get better.
At this point, (ignore the fact it was kind of a fail advertising wise using it to prove a point) say the hot new phone comes out, the rezound, and you want it, you can have it on anybodies service. Now all four major companies, and if it applies, minor companies, will have to ACTUALLY compete to get your service. More mins for less money, unlimited data, better customer service. They would never burn you, because they know you won't be back, because they won't have that exclusive that you have to have.
this isn't exactly how it works over seas, but is closer, and from my understanding service over their is DIRT cheap, and look at the amount of phones over seas running cyanogenmod, aokp, MIUI, etc.
nosympathy said:
You really think that second response about other coverage sucking was script?
I know some answers are, but that doesn't feel that way. Which would explain why they wouldn't respond about it.
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Actually, that is. Granted, it was worded poorly, but it's in their script to talk about how bad service is with other carriers.
I don't have your phone, or Verizon.. but your post is why I don't have that phone, or Verizon. I've always been confused why people pay so much more to be with Verizon.. I pay 64.50 per month with T-Mobile, unlimited minutes and texts with 2gb of data. I could pay 76.40 and have 5gigs of data, do you actually need more??
Everyone has their reasons for choosing the company they do, tho most don't have very well thought out reasons.. these companies let each other use each others service, so technically you don't get better service from one over another.
And to the last guy who was posting about the subsidy situation with the carriers, in almost any other country in the world, phones are not locked into the carrier, and the carrier doesn't have the say so over the phone, which we know simply isn't true here. These companies try to hold on to the way things are, and they aren't going to stop.. simply for all the reasons you named. They are in control. They've made us their *****. We have to deal with it until the majority of consumers here change their buying habits.. but just like so many other issues, I don't see us ever working together to make positive change.
to the open, switch companies and feel good about it. Vzw sucks, you won't miss them.
Sent from my HTC_Amaze_4G using xda app-developers app
Hi, don't know if this is the right section to post this or not but here goes:
I have been a Sprint customer for going on 3 years now. In the beginning I used to rave about their customer service but feel like recently it has been lacking. Due to the headache I endure after every call to them I am looking to get out of my contract. I know there are very few reasons Sprint will waive the ETF so here are the thoughts I'd like to get ironed out by you geniuses.
1. Material Changes constitute a reason to waive ETF.
Is anyone aware of material changes that may have been made to Sprint contracts within the last month or so. Google isn't very helpful in finding the information I am looking for, or maybe I just suck at Google.
OR
2. Excessive Roaming
I have heard there are ways to load PRL's to your device in order to ensure you are almost always roaming. This is a slow process but I am told if you use your phone enough Sprint will send a letter saying your contract is being cancelled due to excessive roaming. Can someone link me to a brief description of changing the PRL information so I can force this baby to roam?
Those are the only reasons I am aware of that Sprint will cancel a contract. Any other alternatives would be greatly appreciated, and expansion to the two I've suggested would be equally as awesome. Thanks!
This thread is currently in the i9100 forums. The i9100 is a GSM phone that doesn't even work on Sprint's network. If you're looking for advice on how to deal with Sprint, you're not going to find a lot of people with that experience here, I don't think.
There's an article currently on Ars Technica which you all may be interested in.
Civil liberties advocates have asked the US Federal Trade Commission to take action against the nation's four major wireless carriers for selling millions of Android smartphones that never, or only rarely, receive updates to patch dangerous security vulnerabilities.
The request for investigation and complaint for injunctive relief was filed Tuesday by the American Civil Liberties Union against AT&T, Verizon Wireless, Sprint Nextel, and T-Mobile USA. The majority of phones that the carriers sell run Google's Android operating system and rarely receive software updates, the 16-page document stated. It went on to allege that the practice violates provisions of the Federal Trade Commission Act barring deceptive and unfair business practices, since the carriers don't disclose that the failure to provide updates in a timely manner puts customers at greater risk of hacking attacks. Among other things, the filing seeks an order allowing customers to terminate contracts that cover a phone that's no longer eligible to receive updates.
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I'll be following this case with a GREAT deal of interest. I urge anyone so inclined to send a few bucks to the ACLU - they seem to be in EFF territory here a bit, but that's fine with me.
def2moto said:
There's an article currently on Ars Technica which you all may be interested in.
I'll be following this case with a GREAT deal of interest. I urge anyone so inclined to send a few bucks to the ACLU - they seem to be in EFF territory here a bit, but that's fine with me.
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Sound interesting, but I don't think its going to have any impact. I read this somewhere:
The ACLU filing is a request that the FTC investigate the carriers along with factual and legal support for the argument that the four carriers aren’t complying with US law. The commission isn’t required to take any action in response. In the event FTC staff members launch an investigation, it could be months or even years for it to become public.
Blah, ACLU. Just another political action committee.
Hey I know this will come as a great shock to you all. For the time I spent with Sprint this afternoon I could've done some web work or something and made enough money to just pay their fees but its the *principle* ya know?
Anyway, when I contacted them several ways to get the early termination waved or get like the HTC One for switching new customer price because of the lack of upgrades, the first chat person said "Oh the Q update went out on the 14th" and then told me to call in.
I called in a few times, a Dominique hung up on me, but a Heidi was as sympathetic as the corporate manual allows. The price kept changing. They said I could do an early upgrade for $160 plus then the upgrade cost of a phone. Then they dropped that to $155. They said the early termination to $175.
Anyway, they also claimed that I should just go to the store to have them fix the security problems. I told them that wouldn't help, and they didn't believe me. They also told me that no one is complaining about any hacks.
So if you're bored, go ahead an try to inform a customer service rep about this complaint. I know this matters nothing, but I think that since we're in the right with it that it is a situation that we should participate fully in. Even if you no longer have a Photon the complaint is still valid for all phones not on 4.2, and for probably most phones against still when 4.3 comes out.
I know we also somewhat benefit from having the control of being able to hack the things, but that is subtly different than someone in the future finding browser vulnerabilities that stay open for years. It could eventually lead to them locking things down a la Apple, but that is a different fight. Hack it if you own it, don't hack it if you don't own it.
tomgaga said:
Sound interesting, but I don't think its going to have any impact. I read this somewhere:
The ACLU filing is a request that the FTC investigate the carriers along with factual and legal support for the argument that the four carriers aren’t complying with US law. The commission isn’t required to take any action in response. In the event FTC staff members launch an investigation, it could be months or even years for it to become public.
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This old thread is telling given the recent arrival of the Stagefright exploit. ACLU was on the money with this one two years and I can now imagine a potential massive class-action lawsuit against carriers for negligence with user data security. Forced arbitration agreements are likely to head off such an effort, but there are signs that the legal stakes for consumer data security are rising: http://www.wired.com/2015/07/new-hope-victims-data-breaches/
Instead of jockeying for lower prices or switching to no contracts, one of the major carriers should standout by creating a low-cost-no-added-commitment phone upgrade program since the cost of supporting older phones is too high for their bottom line. If they don't do it themselves, I can imagine a day when carriers are soon required to issue phone recalls when a substantial exploit is discovered.
Sprint Discontinuing WiMax. Cancel Service with No ETF
Sprint just added this to their terms and conditions. Long story short, if you have a WiMax device, you can discontinue your service with no ETF or get LTE phone upgrade for free.
https://shop2.sprint.com/en/legal/legal_terms_privacy_popup.shtml?ECID=vanity:termsandconditions
http://www.gottabemobile.com/2013/06/17/sprint-lte-etf-wimax/
http://www.pcworld.com/article/2041996/new-terms-in-sprint-contracts-look-toward-wimax-shutdown.html
http://www.phonedog.com/2013/06/14/sprint-updates-contract-terms-with-details-on-customer-options-for-end-of-wimax-service/
findthedr said:
Sprint Discontinuing WiMax. Cancel Service with No ETF
Sprint just added this to their terms and conditions. Long story short, if you have a WiMax device, you can discontinue your service with no ETF or get LTE phone upgrade for free.
https://shop2.sprint.com/en/legal/legal_terms_privacy_popup.shtml?ECID=vanity:termsandconditions
http://www.gottabemobile.com/2013/06/17/sprint-lte-etf-wimax/
http://www.pcworld.com/article/2041996/new-terms-in-sprint-contracts-look-toward-wimax-shutdown.html
http://www.phonedog.com/2013/06/14/sprint-updates-contract-terms-with-details-on-customer-options-for-end-of-wimax-service/
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This was discussed on many sites the last few days. However people have been reporting that when they ask the Sprint stores about the free LTE phone, the Sprint CSR say that they have not received any direction on proceeding with free LTE phones. The Sprint CSR were saying that Sprint is just amending the terms now so that when they are ready to begin offering this promotion they have the legality to do it. I don't see this promotion being offered until Fall time frame.
ericdabbs said:
The Sprint CSR were saying that Sprint is just amending the terms now so that when they are ready to begin offering this promotion they have the legality to do it.
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if there is a change of terms now, than that would be enough for someone to get out without paying an ETF.
ericdabbs said:
I don't see this promotion being offered until Fall time frame.
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that sucks for people who are wanting an upgrade and not wanting to leave sprint. those individuals should still be able to temporarily port out of sprint, cancel without ETF, and than sign a new line to get a new phone if they choose. That being said, it would require a new 2yr contract.....sprints upgrade option might not require an extension to the current contract....though I have no idea.
for those wanting to stay with sprint and interested in an upgrade:
https://shop2.sprint.com/en/legal/legal_terms_privacy_popup.shtml?ECID=vanity:termsandconditions
New Agreements on the Sprint 4G (WiMAX) Network: Your Service on a device activated on the Sprint 4G (WiMAX) Network may require a new one or two-year Agreement per line. Sprint expressly reserves the right to migrate your Service during this Agreement term from the Sprint 4G (WiMAX) Network to the Sprint 4G LTE network to complete your Agreement term. Reasonable advance notice of the Service change will be provided to impacted customers, who can then select one of the following options:
(a) Choose to complete the Agreement term using your existing device without 4G (WiMAX) capability
(b) Elect to complete the Agreement term by contacting us after receiving notice from Sprint to transition to the Sprint 4G LTE network with no additional term commitment required (Transition Option)
(c) Deactivate service. Deactivations because of this Service change will not result in an Early Termination Fee (ETF).
Transition Option: If you select the Transition Option, you will receive a free standard Sprint LTE capable device and can maintain your existing Service plan, if available. During the Agreement term, Sprint may provide other offers that are separate from the Transition Option, and these offers will be subject to a new two-year Agreement per line.
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those who are just interested in a new, free phone, than they should be smart and not taken any options other than the transition option so as not to extend their contract.
The Clearwire agreement runs through December 2015. Sprint can sit back and watch until then if they want to, but it looks like they're simply amending the terms to allow them to migrate customers if needed. Probably for that small chance that Dish can pull off the Clearwire purchase.
There is nothing adversely material about this change. It they EOL the spectrum and equipment, basically give you a new replacement and don't change the price, you aren't hurt.
Kevets said:
There is nothing adversely material about this change. It they EOL the spectrum and equipment, basically give you a new replacement and don't change the price, you aren't hurt.
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1. individuals who currently are able to recieve WIMAX signals, but not LTE signals would be negatively affected by this change. I am one of those individuals as my location does not have sprint LTE, and likely wont get it for a long time.
2. this change does not HAVE to be materially adverse for individuals to deactivate service with sprint. Sprint clearly gives affected individuals that option (option C).
Wouldnt think you would get to pick the LTE device for free, or pick the device and pay less though.
findthedr said:
1. individuals who currently are able to recieve WIMAX signals, but not LTE signals would be negatively affected by this change. I am one of those individuals as my location does not have sprint LTE, and likely wont get it for a long time.
2. this change does not HAVE to be materially adverse for individuals to deactivate service with sprint. Sprint clearly gives affected individuals that option (option C).
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All I am saying is that its too early to tell what Sprint is going to give direction to its corporate stores on how to handle these requests. You can feel free to contact your local Sprint corporate store and inquire about how they will handle these new terms and conditions. I am pretty sure you are going to get blank stares by the Sprint CSRs since this strategy needs to be well thought out. Don't quote me but I think this promotion won't run until Fall because I think Sprint wants to give customers more time to switch from Wimax to LTE on their own before offering a free LTE device.
While Sprint and Clearwire have an agreement until 2015 to use the Wimax network, the terms for Wimax are not the same for the 2014 and 2015 years. Right now the current terms for Wimax is Sprint pays Clearwire a fixed price for unlimited usage on the Wimax network but I know for TD-LTE and for Wimax in 2014 and 2015 that Sprint will pay Clearwire for usage per GB instead of a fixed price for unlimited usage. If you are Sprint, you would be smart not to continue to pay Clearwire to use Wimax per GB so I think Sprint realizes that and is trying to get people off of Wimax so that they can begin refarming that spectrum for TD-LTE.
As much as I would like to think that Sprint will offer these affected customers including myself the option to pick any LTE phone in the Sprint lineup (ex. Galaxy S4, Note 3, HTC One, etc) without a new 2 year commitment, I highly doubt Sprint will do that. Instead I think Sprint will offer either a crappy low end phone like a Sprint Flash/Force/Vital OR an mid range LTE device (ex: Galaxy Victory 4G LTE, LG Viper, LG Mach). If Sprint does offer any LTE device as an option, I will be all over the Note 3 when it comes out. I don't mind if I have to sign a new 2 year contract if Sprint would give me the Note 3 for free.
Sprint as they announced you have three options look option (a) which means you can keep your photon but no 4g any more ???????? Just you can use only 3g service. So folks is it a material adverse change or no to get out of etc
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I just got off the phone with a CSR after unsuccessfully trying to cancel without ETF.
The changes in Wimax will only affect some customers, and depending on your zip code this will NOT apply. It is NOT grounds to terminate with no ETF.
Caferacer said:
I just got off the phone with a CSR after unsuccessfully trying to cancel without ETF.
The changes in Wimax will only affect some customers, and depending on your zip code this will NOT apply. It is NOT grounds to terminate with no ETF.
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I would also like to add that for a "Nation wide coverage" stating that a wimax change would only affect some customers is bs. I pay for nationwide coverage, not just coverage in my typical area. I travel a lot so any change in the network would affect me... I will be giving this a try myself to see what happens.
But in the end I think you can just get out without ETF because there was a change to the Terms and Conditions part, specifically reducing your rights...
new t&c:
THIS AGREEMENT CONTAINS A MANDATORY ARBITRATION PROVISION WITH A CLASS WAIVER, A REPRESENTATIVE ACTION WAIVER, AND A JURY WAIVER PROVISION.
Old t&c:
THIS CONTRACT CONTAINS A MANDATORY ARBITRATION PROVISION THAT DISALLOWS CLASS ACTIONS, A CLASS ACTION WAIVER PROVISION, AND A JURY WAIVER PROVISION.
anyone else try?
Bad Sector said:
I would also like to add that for a "Nation wide coverage" stating that a wimax change would only affect some customers is bs. I pay for nationwide coverage, not just coverage in my typical area. I travel a lot so any change in the network would affect me... I will be giving this a try myself to see what happens.
But in the end I think you can just get out without ETF because there was a change to the Terms and Conditions part, specifically reducing your rights...
new t&c:
THIS AGREEMENT CONTAINS A MANDATORY ARBITRATION PROVISION WITH A CLASS WAIVER, A REPRESENTATIVE ACTION WAIVER, AND A JURY WAIVER PROVISION.
Old t&c:
THIS CONTRACT CONTAINS A MANDATORY ARBITRATION PROVISION THAT DISALLOWS CLASS ACTIONS, A CLASS ACTION WAIVER PROVISION, AND A JURY WAIVER PROVISION.
anyone else try?
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I tried calling yesterday trying to terminate because of the changed TOS, but I called for a different section. This was added to 'Our right to change the agreement and your related rights':
"If you lose your eligibility for a particular rate plan or if a particular rate plan is no longer supported or available, we may change your rate plan to one for which you qualify."
This eliminates grandfathered plans at the discretion of sprint. Unfortunately I made the mistake of speaking to a general CSR, and one stupid enough to think this section was somehow related to the shutdown of wimax towers, and also insisted that because I bought my device prior their wimax cutoff of March 2013, that these TOS didn't apply to me. Either way it is a material change to the contract as the legal term defines it, and also adversely affects the contract holder's rights as it allows sprint to cancel plans and sign you up for another at their discretion. I didn't touch the arbitration section because there was already arbitration rights, whereas this is a new sentence granting them more rights.
Unfortunately it ended with them deferring me to their legal department. I'm going to try again but ask to speak to retention first, since even if they wanted to the manager I was escalated to stated they could not terminate a contract without ETF unless it pertained to the wimax shutdown.
Caferacer said:
I just got off the phone with a CSR after unsuccessfully trying to cancel without ETF.
The changes in Wimax will only affect some customers, and depending on your zip code this will NOT apply. It is NOT grounds to terminate with no ETF.
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Caferacer said:
I tried calling yesterday trying to terminate because of the changed TOS, but I called for a different section. This was added to 'Our right to change the agreement and your related rights':
"If you lose your eligibility for a particular rate plan or if a particular rate plan is no longer supported or available, we may change your rate plan to one for which you qualify."
This eliminates grandfathered plans at the discretion of sprint. Unfortunately I made the mistake of speaking to a general CSR, and one stupid enough to think this section was somehow related to the shutdown of wimax towers, and also insisted that because I bought my device prior their wimax cutoff of March 2013, that these TOS didn't apply to me. Either way it is a material change to the contract as the legal term defines it, and also adversely affects the contract holder's rights as it allows sprint to cancel plans and sign you up for another at their discretion. I didn't touch the arbitration section because there was already arbitration rights, whereas this is a new sentence granting them more rights.
Unfortunately it ended with them deferring me to their legal department. I'm going to try again but ask to speak to retention first, since even if they wanted to the manager I was escalated to stated they could not terminate a contract without ETF unless it pertained to the wimax shutdown.
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I as well got the run around. They are saying that it does not affect me right now so I cannot claim that as a reason. Even though they are changing the terms that could in the future allow sprint to change their data plan structure and force me into a different plan according to the item you quoted. The Rep said they wouldn't do that without contacting me first, but as I pointed out to them it says right there that they can.
I named off every change between the new contract and old, but for each one she said it does not affect me "right now"... she was likely informed by her manager to just keep with that same line. Looks like it is time to contact executive services to get this resolved or their legal department...
I did tell her to note of my account that I do not agree with the changes to the terms and conditions, regardless if they affect me "right now", and I will be cancelling per their agreement with me that if they change t&c we can cancel within 30 days.
She just said they will charge the ETF if I cancel... we will see where this goes.
Bad Sector said:
I as well got the run around. They are saying that it does not affect me right now so I cannot claim that as a reason. Even though they are changing the terms that could in the future allow sprint to change their data plan structure and force me into a different plan according to the item you quoted. The Rep said they wouldn't do that without contacting me first, but as I pointed out to them it says right there that they can.
I named off every change between the new contract and old, but for each one she said it does not affect me "right now"... she was likely informed by her manager to just keep with that same line. Looks like it is time to contact executive services to get this resolved or their legal department...
I did tell her to note of my account that I do not agree with the changes to the terms and conditions, regardless if they affect me "right now", and I will be cancelling per their agreement with me that if they change t&c we can cancel within 30 days.
She just said they will charge the ETF if I cancel... we will see where this goes.
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I would stick with the notion that a adverse material change is not something that *needs* to affect you right now in terms of changing your data plan. It's easier to argue when it's taking money away right then and there, but it's not a requirement. It's changing a defining portion of the contract (A material change) and giving sprint more power than was originally agreed to while decreasing yours (Adverse). I got the CSR to stop stating that when I told her 'Well, by that notion you could change the TOS to state you own my first born. I don't have a first born yet, but you wouldn't expect me to agree to that TOS because of that fact do you?'.
Caferacer said:
I would stick with the notion that a adverse material change is not something that *needs* to affect you right now in terms of changing your data plan. It's easier to argue when it's taking money away right then and there, but it's not a requirement. It's changing a defining portion of the contract (A material change) and giving sprint more power than was originally agreed to while decreasing yours (Adverse). I got the CSR to stop stating that when I told her 'Well, by that notion you could change the TOS to state you own my first born. I don't have a first born yet, but you wouldn't expect me to agree to that TOS because of that fact do you?'.
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Nice one... so you saying you had any further luck with this? It was like talking to a wall... just kept repeating that it "doesn't affect me at this time" ...
would also like to know if anyone is having any success with this.
Yes sir.
I fulfilled my contract. Both lines. Now I'm out of contract. I don't know how same ppl miss this ts&cs can waive your ETF.. It's clear with options too. But if you have 4g wimax device capability
No question !!!!
Sent from my Nexus 7 using xda premium
evobb10 said:
Yes sir.
I fulfilled my contract. Both lines. Now I'm out of contract. I don't know how same ppl miss this ts&cs can waive your ETF.. It's clear with options too. But if you have 4g wimax device capability
No question !!!!
Sent from my Nexus 7 using xda premium
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It's funny that some people are able to do this with not much issue.. but a lot of us are getting stuck with the CSR saying it doesn't apply to us "YET"... and you can't get them to understand that this contract means it WILL and then we are stuck because they won't process our cancellation.. frustrating
Ibcalled last nigjt and they kept trying to say the changes were nonmaterial amd did not apply.
Pocketables had an article with 4 points. I read them the the guy, he was in retention dept, and the guy told me sprint already has those rights/abilities. His name was John. He would not give me a last name or number. Then he got a manager on the phone and she said the same thing.
They used the example of changing fees and whatnot.
I believe android authority had an article on this, if not them it was android police.
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