Is it just me... - HTC EVO 3D
or does anyone else feel like we dont have enough aosp love? I mean we have miui, cm7, had decks(went ghostbusters on us) and empiire(heard he got grounded for molesting his hard drive.) I understand theirs still kinks to be worked out but everything is Sense. Just wanted to see who else felt this way. PLEASE DONT COME IN AND START A PARAGRAPH WAR, I read enough in high school.
Temari x Shikamaru
Evervolv exists.
il Duce said:
Evervolv exists.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Link please. Ive been hunting it.
Temari x Shikamaru
Talked to shift on twitter yesterday, he said CM7 is being worked on. I honestly think what it is that people are happy with their phones just the way they are, so it brings less crowd. While it is smaller than the original Evo, there is still a pretty big following. Plus, this is just a US phone, so when comparing the Sensation with us is like apple and oranges. We just got mike and androidrevolution! Which is great.
Sent from my PG86100 using xda premium
PatrickHuey said:
Talked to shift on twitter yesterday, he said CM7 is being worked on. I honestly think what it is that people are happy with their phones just the way they are, so it brings less crowd. While it is smaller than the original Evo, there is still a pretty big following. Plus, this is just a US phone, so when comparing the Sensation with us is like apple and oranges. We just got mike and androidrevolution! Which is great.
Sent from my PG86100 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Its not just US. Theres gsm models for overseas.
Temari x Shikamaru
The problem is, most AOSP ROM's(99.99%) are based off CM kernel source, so with no update to CM, there's no update to other AOSP ROM's. Many devs might want to wait until a few more bugs are worked out of CM before they start kanging. Once we get an RC1 or a stable CM release, you may see more AOSP love.
Can the gsm users get some aosp love? Any roms?
Sent from my Evo 3D GSM...bring on the AOSP!!!
housry23 said:
The problem is, most AOSP ROM's(99.99%) are based off CM kernel source, so with no update to CM, there's no update to other AOSP ROM's. Many devs might want to wait until a few more bugs are worked out of CM before they start kanging. Once we get an RC1 or a stable CM release, you may see more AOSP love.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This man is right. Most AOSP is done by Cyanogenmod devs and kanged from there. I can guarantee you when they come out with a CM7 RC, there will magically be other AOSP roms.
housry23 said:
The problem is, most AOSP ROM's(99.99%) are based off CM kernel source, so with no update to CM, there's no update to other AOSP ROM's. Many devs might want to wait until a few more bugs are worked out of CM before they start kanging. Once we get an RC1 or a stable CM release, you may see more AOSP love.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your right. I forgot about that.
Temari x Shikamaru
housry23 said:
The problem is, most AOSP ROM's(99.99%) are based off CM kernel source, so with no update to CM, there's no update to other AOSP ROM's. Many devs might want to wait until a few more bugs are worked out of CM before they start kanging. Once we get an RC1 or a stable CM release, you may see more AOSP love.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have complained about this over and over, and will continue to complain in multiple threads until more people see the point I make and support that. Using someone else's kernel and/or ROM as a base for their "new" ROM isn't all bad all the time. It is analogous to game development on a PC using another developer's graphics/game engine (only with permission and proper credit of course!!). It saves time, and in some cases help that particular engine to advance, but it slows down new technological advancement in the industry as a whole.
Developers need to start honing their skills, start attempting to bring a ROM to the public that they built from the ground up, that includes a kernel build from the ground up too. Doing this eliminates such a large collection of ROMs that are all essentially the same, and because of the open source nature of Android it brings new technological advances to the public faster. It also raises the bar, the standard. The public will begin to expect more out of Android, and this in turn creates more motivation for a newer, better Android.
I think some developers have lost sight of the purpose and nature of open source information and products. Instead of hijacking someone's source code, and using it as a base for a new ROM with a new name, and small amount of new features, development should be done that conforms to the original intent and purpose of open source. Work together with a developer that has created a ROM [from the ground up] that is most similar to the product you want to create. Improve the ROM as a team, make bug fixes and enhancement to the existing ROM. That is what open source was meant to do. This will prevent a forum list of 32 half assed roms, and replace it with 10 really good yet unique roms.
If you can't find an existing ROM, a Dev team that has different ideas of what make a ROM good, or there is no ROM that exists that is similar enough to your vision of the product then, and only then should you develop something new.
I realize my views aren't going to match up with everyone else, but I am sure a happy medium could be found that produces a situation better than what we have now. Thanks for letting me rant, and for reading my thoughts!
Sad Panda said:
I have complained about this over and over, and will continue to complain in multiple threads until more people see the point I make and support that. Using someone else's kernel and/or ROM as a base for their "new" ROM isn't all bad all the time. It is analogous to game development on a PC using another developer's graphics/game engine (only with permission and proper credit of course!!). It saves time, and in some cases help that particular engine to advance, but it slows down new technological advancement in the industry as a whole.
Developers need to start honing their skills, start attempting to bring a ROM to the public that they built from the ground up, that includes a kernel build from the ground up too. Doing this eliminates such a large collection of ROMs that are all essentially the same, and because of the open source nature of Android it brings new technological advances to the public faster. It also raises the bar, the standard. The public will begin to expect more out of Android, and this in turn creates more motivation for a newer, better Android.
I think some developers have lost sight of the purpose and nature of open source information and products. Instead of hijacking someone's source code, and using it as a base for a new ROM with a new name, and small amount of new features, development should be done that conforms to the original intent and purpose of open source. Work together with a developer that has created a ROM [from the ground up] that is most similar to the product you want to create. Improve the ROM as a team, make bug fixes and enhancement to the existing ROM. That is what open source was meant to do. This will prevent a forum list of 32 half assed roms, and replace it with 10 really good yet unique roms.
If you can't find an existing ROM, a Dev team that has different ideas of what make a ROM good, or there is no ROM that exists that is similar enough to your vision of the product then, and only then should you develop something new.
I realize my views aren't going to match up with everyone else, but I am sure a happy medium could be found that produces a situation better than what we have now. Thanks for letting me rant, and for reading my thoughts!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Damn. Such a long read. It was good though.
Temari x Shikamaru
knowledge561 said:
Damn. Such a long read. It was good though.
Temari x Shikamaru
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm sorry, I originally had hoped for a much shorter post. I always try to get the thoughts in my head out "on paper" in the shortest, most efficient and least complex manner. This is my vision of a more free, "open source" world though. I think the freedom of information could be applied to many facets of society that would create a better future for all of us, and still preserve the competition that drives a more peaceful, better, cheaper, faster world. Sorry again!
Sad Panda said:
I have complained about this over and over, and will continue to complain in multiple threads until more people see the point I make and support that. Using someone else's kernel and/or ROM as a base for their "new" ROM isn't all bad all the time. It is analogous to game development on a PC using another developer's graphics/game engine (only with permission and proper credit of course!!). It saves time, and in some cases help that particular engine to advance, but it slows down new technological advancement in the industry as a whole.
Developers need to start honing their skills, start attempting to bring a ROM to the public that they built from the ground up, that includes a kernel build from the ground up too. Doing this eliminates such a large collection of ROMs that are all essentially the same, and because of the open source nature of Android it brings new technological advances to the public faster. It also raises the bar, the standard. The public will begin to expect more out of Android, and this in turn creates more motivation for a newer, better Android.
I think some developers have lost sight of the purpose and nature of open source information and products. Instead of hijacking someone's source code, and using it as a base for a new ROM with a new name, and small amount of new features, development should be done that conforms to the original intent and purpose of open source. Work together with a developer that has created a ROM [from the ground up] that is most similar to the product you want to create. Improve the ROM as a team, make bug fixes and enhancement to the existing ROM. That is what open source was meant to do. This will prevent a forum list of 32 half assed roms, and replace it with 10 really good yet unique roms.
If you can't find an existing ROM, a Dev team that has different ideas of what make a ROM good, or there is no ROM that exists that is similar enough to your vision of the product then, and only then should you develop something new.
I realize my views aren't going to match up with everyone else, but I am sure a happy medium could be found that produces a situation better than what we have now. Thanks for letting me rant, and for reading my thoughts!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The problem is that people don't always give credit where credit is due, which is one of the reasons some people don't like sharing stuff. I mean, let's say I made this awesome mod and let everybody use it. Then some kitchen dev comes along, kangs the **** out of it, doesn't mention me in his rom, and slaps a gigantic DONATE button at the bottom of his signature. It's frustrating.
Now I'm all about open source. I won't use a rom that doesn't post the source. That's the exact reason I won't use MIUI.
SolsticeZero said:
The problem is that people don't always give credit where credit is due, which is one of the reasons some people don't like sharing stuff. I mean, let's say I made this awesome mod and let everybody use it. Then some kitchen dev comes along, kangs the **** out of it, doesn't mention me in his rom, and slaps a gigantic DONATE button at the bottom of his signature. It's frustrating.
Now I'm all about open source. I won't use a rom that doesn't post the source. That's the exact reason I won't use MIUI.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I fully understand your frustration. I am a software engineer too so I know what you are going through. I have not yet begun developing for Android, but will. There is a little bit of a problem here that could easily be solved, and the community has a responsibility to protect the intellectual property rights that you and every other developer like you is entitled to. In fact it is a right that is protected by the integrity of the constitution of the united states, and many other countries and law enforcement around the world. This is a failure that not just developers, mods, and admins have, but a responsibility and failure that every user at xda shares no matter who they are.
First off; not to offend any MIUI developers that may be watching, but if you are developing for Android you need to be using a license that is open, and your source needs to be open too. This is especially true if you are using xda as a distribution medium, but sadly while xda has said they encourage, and want every development to be open source they are not forcing the matter. This is a failure I think. It also makes MIUI look suspicious too, as there isn't a way to verify if their source is uniquely theirs'. I personally believe xda should not allow software that is not open source to be distributed. If google didn't keep the open source principle when they acquired Android roms like MIUI would NOT exist! It is highly unethical to take the base ROM from google because it is open source, and then close the source. That is wrong wrong wrong! It is also illegal! You can not redistribute the Android OS even if you have made changes and then close the source and not maintain the software license google has on place.
Second; I believe as a user of xda it is your duty to maintain the integrity of the principles of xda, and Android. Don't support closed source works, voice your disgust so that xda sees the will of its users, that the over whelming majority wants things to remain open source. Tattle your ass off if someone has broke the copyright law and used someone's work without permission and credit.
It is important to keep both xda and Android running on the same principles it started with. Don't let this keep happening guys! This is very serious, a lot of developers are breaking the law doing what they are doing!
Sad Panda said:
I have complained about this over and over, and will continue to complain in multiple threads until more people see the point I make and support that. Using someone else's kernel and/or ROM as a base for their "new" ROM isn't all bad all the time. It is analogous to game development on a PC using another developer's graphics/game engine (only with permission and proper credit of course!!). It saves time, and in some cases help that particular engine to advance, but it slows down new technological advancement in the industry as a whole.
Developers need to start honing their skills, start attempting to bring a ROM to the public that they built from the ground up, that includes a kernel build from the ground up too. Doing this eliminates such a large collection of ROMs that are all essentially the same, and because of the open source nature of Android it brings new technological advances to the public faster. It also raises the bar, the standard. The public will begin to expect more out of Android, and this in turn creates more motivation for a newer, better Android.
I think some developers have lost sight of the purpose and nature of open source information and products. Instead of hijacking someone's source code, and using it as a base for a new ROM with a new name, and small amount of new features, development should be done that conforms to the original intent and purpose of open source. Work together with a developer that has created a ROM [from the ground up] that is most similar to the product you want to create. Improve the ROM as a team, make bug fixes and enhancement to the existing ROM. That is what open source was meant to do. This will prevent a forum list of 32 half assed roms, and replace it with 10 really good yet unique roms.
If you can't find an existing ROM, a Dev team that has different ideas of what make a ROM good, or there is no ROM that exists that is similar enough to your vision of the product then, and only then should you develop something new.
I realize my views aren't going to match up with everyone else, but I am sure a happy medium could be found that produces a situation better than what we have now. Thanks for letting me rant, and for reading my thoughts!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Or learn to code yourself and create roms from the ground up. Most devs do what they do for themselves first, and allow us to ride on their coattails. Not a bad ride if your like me and have no coding skills. Otherwise, I doubt your plea is going to convince a dev to do anything more or less then they do now, unless it interest them personally.
I do agree with you though. I'm coming from Android on the Touch Pro 2 where a small group of devs are building EVERYTHING from scratch. From the modems to the light sensor. It's a huge job done out of love for the hardware, for fun, and a passion for coding.
knowledge561 said:
Link please. Ive been hunting it.
Temari x Shikamaru
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
he links only via twitter posts and in his IRC, send him a tweet. iirc still in beta, but he does some nice ROMs
Serren said:
Or learn to code yourself and create roms from the ground up. Most devs do what they do for themselves first, and allow us to ride on their coattails. Not a bad ride if your like me and have no coding skills. Otherwise, I doubt your plea is going to convince a dev to do anything more or less then they do now, unless it interest them personally.
I do agree with you though. I'm coming from Android on the Touch Pro 2 where a small group of devs are building EVERYTHING from scratch. From the modems to the light sensor. It's a huge job done out of love for the hardware, for fun, and a passion for coding.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you for your comment and support. I don't disagree with you. If you steal a loaf of bread to feed yourself, is it any less of a crime than to steal a loaf of bread to feed you and your family and friends? Or is it the same or worse?
I think either way it isn't ethical. People need to think less about themselves I think. I must reiterate and clarify so I am not misunderstood. I don't think it is inherently bad to be using a ROM as your base, but it is wrong to then close the source of a previously open piece of work and/or not maintain the original license, and give credit in every spot it should be given in. That would include its distribution, the license, the source code itself, and any where else that you put your own version, app info, and copyright notice. Am I wrong?
Sad Panda said:
I fully understand your frustration. I am a software engineer too so I know what you are going through. I have not yet begun developing for Android, but will. There is a little bit of a problem here that could easily be solved, and the community has a responsibility to protect the intellectual property rights that you and every other developer like you is entitled to. In fact it is a right that is protected by the integrity of the constitution of the united states, and many other countries and law enforcement around the world. This is a failure that not just developers, mods, and admins have, but a responsibility and failure that every user at xda shares no matter who they are.
First off; not to offend any MIUI developers that may be watching, but if you are developing for Android you need to be using a license that is open, and your source needs to be open too. This is especially true if you are using xda as a distribution medium, but sadly while xda has said they encourage, and want every development to be open source they are not forcing the matter. This is a failure I think. It also makes MIUI look suspicious too, as there isn't a way to verify if their source is uniquely theirs'. I personally believe xda should not allow software that is not open source to be distributed. If google didn't keep the open source principle when they acquired Android roms like MIUI would NOT exist! It is highly unethical to take the base ROM from google because it is open source, and then close the source. That is wrong wrong wrong! It is also illegal! You can not redistribute the Android OS even if you have made changes and then close the source and not maintain the software license google has on place.
Second; I believe as a user of xda it is your duty to maintain the integrity of the principles of xda, and Android. Don't support closed source works, voice your disgust so that xda sees the will of its users, that the over whelming majority wants things to remain open source. Tattle your ass off if someone has broke the copyright law and used someone's work without permission and credit.
It is important to keep both xda and Android running on the same principles it started with. Don't let this keep happening guys! This is very serious, a lot of developers are breaking the law doing what they are doing!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Let me preface this by saying that I agree with you..
However android is meant to be open source, the license that they use (Apache) does not require it.. The reason they chose the Apache license was to give people the freedom to choose (their words). So technically people like miui don't have to post source for anything other than kernel (which is GPL).
This link has some good info on it.
http://source.android.com/source/licenses.html
But even CM doesn't have to provide source, which in recent history they haven't while starting builds.. We can't demand source, when the licensing doesn't demand, but that doesn't mean we still can't prove direct kang. The reason I have android over anything else is the freedom it gives and the open nature of it.
Edit: and you should always credit someone if you are using their work, and also have their permission. I was referring to general source from android itself, not from each other.
_______________________
No d3rp left behind - ranger61878
The problem is, nobody wants to start a ROM from the ground up, and the people that do are already involved into team projects (CM/MIUI). It takes a long time to create a ROM from the ground up that utilizes all of a phone's hardware properly. Look how long it took CM to get 4G onto the EVO 4G, and that was a team of highly skilled individuals practically reverse engineering code to do it.
Now imagine all of the copy and paste kitchen users here trying to accomplish that. It just won't happen lol.
That's why we have pretty much the same thing in different colors. It kind of sucks, but hey, HTC did the majority of the work, and if something already works good enough, the average person will be fine with and use that.
Yeah, it does slow down the evolution and innovation of Android as a whole, but you have to put some of the blame on OEMs for pushing out 45 different phones a year. Nobody is going to be encouraged to create something from the ground up for a phone that will be replaced and obsolete by the time they're finished.
The G1 is the prime example of a great phone that got tons of developer support, tons of new things, and tons of unique ROMs. But that was the beginning, and I doubt that's ever going to happen again.
HTC all but pushed this EVO 3D out, and forgot about it. They've released a good 19 phones since then at the rate they're going, most of us will have moved on to the next one in a few months. Sad but true.
That is why I have stuck with and will probably continue to use a Stock ROM, modified to my liking and stripped. There isn't much else you can hope for. 3D has failed to really take off like HTC and the rest of us wanted. There is no motivation for any of the teams out there to focus on reverse engineering their ROMs to use 3D. MIUI to this day hasn't bothered with WiMAX and with good reason. Sprint all about blatantly announced its slow death in favor of LTE. It would have been a waste of time for the MIUI team to implement it. Kudos to Team Win and CM for gracing us with it on the EVO 4G. But, hindsight has probably made people mad that all of their time and energy went into something that's getting canned.
Alot of good points freeza. These are paragraphs I like to read.
Temari x Shikamaru
Related
[Q] True developers and coders or just reskinners?
After searching through the changelogs of many of Team Whiskey's and Master's Axura roms, I have noticed that many of the changelog features are framework changes and new skins on the stock rom. That being said, I am not flaming anyone as I do appreciate their work but are many devs for the Vibrant skinners or true coders such as Barack, Eugene, etc? Again, THIS IS NOT A POST TO START FLAMING PEOPLE!
I'm going to leave this open for the time being with the understanding that the thread may be closed by the designated Moderator for this forum the moment the thread goes off-topic.
I'm about as "true developer" as you can get. I've written software in machine language and entered it in hex with a 16-key pad. I've written embedded systems. I've written software that was good enough that MS bought the company. I've written drivers. I've run dev shops with 400 employees. I have systems in production that process more than $150 billion worth of annual global transactions. There isn't a lot in the software world that I haven't tried my hand at. And *I* don't have the time to screw around with building something like Nero v3. But I flashed it the other day and it rocked the tits off my previously-stock-Eclair phone, and I was pretty satisfied with the whole thing, and it never once occurred to me to wonder whether the TW guys were "real" developers or not. In short: who cares? I willing to bet I can lay claim to the title "developer" on par with the hardest of the hardcore coders here, and I'm here to tell you if it bothers you that they're calling themselves developers because you suspect they may not size up to your standards, you should probably just move along -- or keep it to yourself.
Maybe a swift kick in the balls would've been kinder.....a little over the line I think. I really don't care who it is, but anyone who takes the time to change framwork or "reskin" a ROM has done more than my fat little fingers can do. They may not all be as great as Team Whiskey or Eugene, but they still develop something, so in short, sure they are all developers. As long as someone gives credit where due, and asked permission where necessary, then the laws of the universe are still being followed......
XPLANE9 said: After searching through the changelogs of many of Team Whiskey's and Master's Axura roms, I have noticed that many of the changelog features are framework changes and new skins on the stock rom. That being said, I am not flaming anyone as I do appreciate their work but are many devs for the Vibrant skinners or true coders such as Barack, Eugene, etc? Again, THIS IS NOT A POST TO START FLAMING PEOPLE! Click to expand... Click to collapse I think it is a fair enough question to post... but I ask you, what is it that you hope to answer or establish? Guidelines to correct nomenclature? E-peen? I just don't quite get the nature of your interrogatory... hilaireg said: I'm going to leave this open for the time being with the understanding that the thread may be closed by the designated Moderator for this forum the moment the thread goes off-topic. Click to expand... Click to collapse Kudos to you... that is exactly why a functioning MOD committee is a great thing for XDA. I applaud your commitment to open discourse. MV10 said: I'm about as "true developer" as you can get. I've written software in machine language and entered it in hex with a 16-key pad. I've written embedded systems. I've written software that was good enough that MS bought the company. I've written drivers. I've run dev shops with 400 employees. I have systems in production that process more than $150 billion worth of annual global transactions. There isn't a lot in the software world that I haven't tried my hand at. And *I* don't have the time to screw around with building something like Nero v3. But I flashed it the other day and it rocked the tits off my previously-stock-Eclair phone, and I was pretty satisfied with the whole thing, and it never once occurred to me to wonder whether the TW guys were "real" developers or not. In short: who cares? I willing to bet I can lay claim to the title "developer" on par with the hardest of the hardcore coders here, and I'm here to tell you if it bothers you that they're calling themselves developers because you suspect they may not size up to your standards, you should probably just move along -- or keep it to yourself. Click to expand... Click to collapse Listing your credentials may (and I stress may) have been a bit over the top... but point well taken nonetheless. gtiryan said: Maybe a swift kick in the balls would've been kinder.....a little over the line I think. I really don't care who it is, but anyone who takes the time to change framwork or "reskin" a ROM has done more than my fat little fingers can do. They may not all be as great as Team Whiskey or Eugene, but they still develop something, so in short, sure they are all developers. As long as someone gives credit where due, and asked permission where necessary, then the laws of the universe are still being followed...... Click to expand... Click to collapse Also very fair point...
XPLANE9 said: After searching through the changelogs of many of Team Whiskey's and Master's Axura roms, I have noticed that many of the changelog features are framework changes and new skins on the stock rom. That being said, I am not flaming anyone as I do appreciate their work but are many devs for the Vibrant skinners or true coders such as Barack, Eugene, etc? Again, THIS IS NOT A POST TO START FLAMING PEOPLE! Click to expand... Click to collapse Soo, you call two set of dev teams just skinners.. and one team coders, yet expect not to start a flame war? I also don't know how you get "many of master's axura roms" there is only ONE axura rom.. And if you look at features, you could tell that it is not just a "Skin" you could also tell that in the change-logs if you looked past "Just framework mods" framework mods aren't just images btw. If you honestly don't want to start a flame war, it is best not to post these types of threads.
I've considered this question myself and the answer I've come up with is, I don't care. Whether they're truly writing new code or just reskinning or theming it's still more than I can do. They do it in their spare time and offer their work to us for free. So I guess my question to you is, what difference does it make?
Poser said: Listing your credentials may (and I stress may) have been a bit over the top... but point well taken nonetheless. Click to expand... Click to collapse I have a pretty strong suspicion that the OP is a developer and is trying to pull the "harder-core than thou" card, so it seemed appropriate at the time. There is ALWAYS somebody better than you. If you're smart, you'll call those people "employees."
I agree with that I don't really care, as long as who ever it may be, don't start releasing garbage that bricks my phone, I'm content. I don't run an empire of $888.000.656.99...gabillion dollars with 2 interlaced brains that can code the matrix's live wallpaper, but in my little, I'm able to flash a ROM or 2.
XPLANE9 said: After searching through the changelogs of many of Team Whiskey's and Master's Axura roms, I have noticed that many of the changelog features are framework changes and new skins on the stock rom. That being said, I am not flaming anyone as I do appreciate their work but are many devs for the Vibrant skinners or true coders such as Barack, Eugene, etc? Again, THIS IS NOT A POST TO START FLAMING PEOPLE! Click to expand... Click to collapse When you write something remotely as good as Axura or V3 then you can make these statements. Until then you're just being an ignorant troll.
The op is a flame in itself, why is it still up?
willsnews said: The op is a flame in itself, why is it still up? Click to expand... Click to collapse ^^Have to agree personally. Anyway, anyone who develops something is a developer (dur). This means themes, mods, guides, roms, etc. As for the ignorant comment the OP made about changelogs, most "devs" don't take the time to list off every detail of the performance enhancements they made. Why? Because you wouldn't know what they're talking about if they did, and there's too many to list. If you're one of the few that could actually read and understand such a changelog, then you probably could be/are making your own roms anyway. Yes some roms available on any phone's forum are more build around aesthetic changes, while others are geared towards efficiency, while others for raw power. That doesn't make one superior to another, but rather simply built for a different consumer.
MWBehr said: ^^Have to agree personally. Anyway, anyone who develops something is a developer (dur). This means themes, mods, guides, roms, etc. As for the ignorant comment the OP made about changelogs, most "devs" don't take the time to list off every detail of the performance enhancements they made. Why? Because you wouldn't know what they're talking about if they did, and there's too many to list. If you're one of the few that could actually read and understand such a changelog, then you probably could be/are making your own roms anyway. Yes some roms available on any phone's forum are more build around aesthetic changes, while others are geared towards efficiency, while others for raw power. That doesn't make one superior to another, but rather simply built for a different consumer. Click to expand... Click to collapse i just made a do-do in the toilet, am i a developer? jk lol
MWBehr said: most "devs" don't take the time to list off every detail of the performance enhancements they made. Why? Because you wouldn't know what they're talking about if they did, and there's too many to list. If you're one of the few that could actually read and understand such a changelog, then you probably could be/are making your own roms anyway. Click to expand... Click to collapse I have to agree with this. I remember on Obsidian V5 Sombionix listed in the change log in great detail what he changed including userscripts and kernel tweaks only to be bombarded with questions about what they meant/do. A lot of the users don't understand the technical aspects and just want something "cool." Devs already get blasted with a barrage of questions and really don't need to add more fuel to the fire so to speak. It seems the OP more or less called TW and Master "skinners." The above says otherwise regarding TW and as for Master just look at the layout of his latest "beast" not to mention the Sense port he got booting on our phones. I would definitely call this development, wouldn't you agree?
xriderx66 said: i just made a do-do in the toilet, am i a developer? jk lol Click to expand... Click to collapse I know you were only making a joke, but basically (using it as an anology of course) yes. Is a kid that picks up an instrument for the first time a musician? Yes. Is he good or does anyone care that he's a musician? Probably not (other than his parents). Should he share his work with the world? Again, only his parents should hear it. The point isn't "are you or aren't you a developer" it's simply a mater of what we percieve as different levels in skill. This doesn't even mean that our perception is accurate, but we're entitled to our opinions. And if you think a developer should have kept his work to himself or herself, then don't download it, and all is right in the world. So yes, if you develop crap, you're still a developer, just maybe shouldn't share your product with the world
Zip Developer, Cyanogen and his Merry men or somebody dropping pure source I can careless. They contribute more than half the downloaders and requesters wanting more. I say let them do their Jobs and be greatful they are here. Use somebody elses work and give them credit as long as its an option. I like options
Wouldnt this be interesting
I just saw that people are arguing on different rom threads and saying oh yours is better since you made this first but I tweaked it. (I mean no disrepect in that comment.) Point being here is a interesting thing I thought of just to see what anyone else thought of. We have four main froyo roms Tazz, Kaos, Sheds and Conaps. If people are fighting over whos to choose I was thinking maybe the four of them should make a combined rom since everything they use to build them is a combined effort anyway. I just personally think it would be interesting to see what they all would contribute and it would be the best rom all around due to it has everyones input. Its nice how they all are unique by themselves but it would be awesome to have them all mashed together if that makes sense. It would be fast, stable, and could probably even be updated more due to whomever had more time would be able to work on it. I am not posting this to make people mad or to say one rom is better than the other I just think it would be rather neat to have one huge awesome rom to choose from. I know it would probably never happen but its a interesting thought. I do not mean any disrespect or harm in this post either. I just figured maybe it would cause less arguments. I just wanted to share an idea I had. What do you all think? Negative or positive.
sounds cool they all do seem to work together enough, lending each other things and being really quite friendly to each other on their posts. to have them together on a test ROM would be cool but i think they all have their individual ideas that keep them just different enough to make everyone happy no matter what their style i'm using Nonsensikal 16.1 now but i'm about to switch to Tazz... i'm not sure Vanilla or Gingerbread... overall though lol yeah i think that would be a great idea!! sorry i rant >< xD!
labnjab said: I just wanted to share an idea I had. What do you all think? Negative or positive. Click to expand... Click to collapse Having things in public view surely makes "who did what first" a non-argument - because one merely needs to look at the commits to find out who did what when. As a reminder, devs who work on AOSP ROMs are under a GPL obligation to release their sources. Without a doubt though, asking that cooks/devs publicly document their trickery increases their workload (in addition to build & test, add some "documentation" tasks) - so, the trade off might be better documentation - but fewer ROM updates per developer. It is possible that having more information available about methods which are Eris hardware specific might encourage more people to participate in ROM "porting" activities, e.g. hacking of backlights, notification delivery, gps/sensor, and "pre-built" library requirements. It is my impression that devs have shared some of this informally in private communications/IRC, but you would be hard-pressed to find explanations or mini-tutorials on most of these topics here on XDA (Eris) forums. That makes it more challenging for any would-be "ROM porting developer" - because they must re-invent those same wheels from scratch, or go begging to devs that have worked through those issues before. The latter certainly won't happen if they view the devs as combative or secretive. I would suggest that if you can gain any traction with the devs on this, the baseline ROM should be AOSP - that way the GPL disclosure requirements align well with the benefit of making information readily available. (Perhaps never in the form of tutorials, but at least in the form of public source code). bftb0
labnjab said: Its nice how they all are unique by themselves but it would be awesome to have them all mashed together if that makes sense. Click to expand... Click to collapse Well a lot of people don't like Sense UI so... But I think it could be a good idea. It's just hard to have to download the latest and greatest version anytime a dev wants to make a change, and two could never change it at the same time unless they were like teamviewing or something.
Yes it is hard having to switch versions everytime they make improvements & I didnt mean the sense ui. I meant i hoped the sentence made sense. Meaning all the newer froyo non sense roms rolled into one. Sorry for any confusion. Sent from my FroyoEris using Tapatalk
I think Tenzo and Tazz have slowed down some of their development until they can get some common problems worked out.
Original work
I'm curious about something. Are there any roms for the photon that's built from the ground up by the dev and not based on anyone else's work? I've noticed that most of the roms for the photon are in some way based off another devs work on another phone just with minor tweaks here and there. Joker seems to be the only dev I've noticed that has done most of his own work. Sent from my MB855 using XDA
Looks like you missed the point This all here is the Android community and everyone uses others work, when making roms. Even Joker uses others work. ;-) Do not say anything about something,if you know nothing. ;-)
Except for pure AOSP builds, ALL ROM's are based off of either CM or stock (ports fall under one of these two groups as well). Pure AOSP builds are very rare as the dev has to write a lot of the drivers, framework and such from scratch. This applies to all android devices. Pure AOSP builds on devices without full sourcecode from the component manufacturers are considered so time consuming that most devs never even both. A perfect example is the Tegra2 development board. Even those that have purchased the dev board do not have access to all the sourcecode as there's a lot of proprietary code that does not fall under opensource. Short of somebody risking some serious legal issues by releasing proprietary code the code is never released. At last check, nobody has all the source code for the Tegra platform. Another example is during a conversation with agraben at the android bbq the subject of sourcecode came up. Both he and I were a little pissed the handset manufacturers are using wrappers (closed source) to get things like cameras and the like to work. In some cases the released drivers (open source) are pretty much useless as most of the functions are handled by the wrapper. Think of it as soft-drivers (proprietary) vs hard-drivers (opensource). There is also a lot that goes on behind the scenes. It's not uncommon for devs to share fixes and such with each other. Lets say I find a way to make the mopho print money (I wish this was true). Unless I'm a complete d*ck, I'd send other devs a PM/email and give the code to any devs that want it. The most I may ask for is a mention in the credits.
Lokifish Marz said: Except for pure AOSP builds, ALL ROM's are based off of either CM or stock (ports fall under one of these two groups as well). Pure AOSP builds are very rare as the dev has to write a lot of the drivers, framework and such from scratch. This applies to all android devices. Pure AOSP builds on devices without full sourcecode from the component manufacturers are considered so time consuming that most devs never even both. A perfect example is the Tegra2 development board. Even those that have purchased the dev board do not have access to all the sourcecode as there's a lot of proprietary code that does not fall under opensource. Short of somebody risking some serious legal issues by releasing proprietary code the code is never released. At last check, nobody has all the source code for the Tegra platform. Another example is during a conversation with agraben at the android bbq the subject of sourcecode came up. Both he and I were a little pissed the handset manufacturers are using wrappers (closed source) to get things like cameras and the like to work. In some cases the released drivers (open source) are pretty much useless as most of the functions are handled by the wrapper. Think of it as soft-drivers (proprietary) vs hard-drivers (opensource). There is also a lot that goes on behind the scenes. It's not uncommon for devs to share fixes and such with each other. Lets say I find a way to make the mopho print money (I wish this was true). Unless I'm a complete d*ck, I'd send other devs a PM/email and give the code to any devs that want it. The most I may ask for is a mention in the credits. Click to expand... Click to collapse The manufacturers are looking to create a competitive advantage between themselves and their "competition" (re: HTC vs. Motorola) so they proprietarize and hope to win. Where they lack foresight is that those "competitors" are the least of their problems; external forces drive the competitive market and these include Apple, RIM and Nokia. Open sourcing more of their code would leave them with many benefits and a handful of weaknesses, but the benefits would far outweigh the losses. They may not want the community to see their sloppy code or quality untested code. When everyone's watching, the audience able to poke holes in your quality is magnitudes larger than your QA folks. I've had my fair share of holes poked, but that's the joy - live and learn. OP, the entire Android platform is based off a combination of coders' work, from the home dev up to Linus Torvalds. I'm thankful for what those who dev on here do, because it can be a grueling and unappreciated process; but when it works >= expectations, hallelujah!
A MUST-READ for aspiring ROM "Developers"
This article appeared today on the main page of XDA and I feel that it's a very important lesson for any/all new ROM devs. Sage Advice from Cyanogen Still Valid Today http://www.xda-developers.com/android/sage-advice-from-cyanogen-still-valid-today/ Excerpt: He had this advice to offer for those looking to make their own Android ROMs: Stop. Write an app or two first, learn how the system works from a developer standpoint. Learn some Java. Read the developer documentation. Learn how to use Git. Then learn how to build AOSP from source. Read the porting guides, and learn how the build system works….. Now try to put your new found skills to work on enhancing the platform by writing code or making theme overlays. And share! And put that s**t on your resume. There is a *ton* of information out there but any kind of “step-by-step rom cooking guide” is going to be a complete fail- it’s too broad of a subject.As XDA has grown right along with the meteoric rise of Android, so has a desire of users to create their own ROMs, kernels, themes, and so on. Much of this work classifies as “original development,” but there’s been a growing trend to what many are calling “derivative development.” This category covers most of ROMs based on stock releases from the manufacturers, applying patches and scripts aimed at optimization, theming and/or removing stock applications, and using “kitchens” that run a stock release through a list of scripts and then repackage as a recovery-flashable update.zip. This is what Cyanogen was expressing frustration about—shortcuts being taken to achieve a product that differs only slightly from stock (derived) and pushed out instead of building from source and delving into the core of Android and making something truly original. XDA-Developers exists first and foremost for developers. It’s at the core of who we are; it’s in our blood; and it’s in the air we breathe. There is a place for derivative works—they provide an entry to the scene which can help to introduce people to the wonders of Android. But let’s not stop there. Don’t be satisfied with just creating yet another derivative of someone else’s work. Instead, follow Cyanogen’s sage advice and learn about Android from the ground up, and create something truly original and innovative. Click to expand... Click to collapse
Guess I should continue with this hello world app... haha
Op just explained 99% of our roms lol Repackage, rename, reskin and ask for donations. Rinse lather and repeat. Now your a dev!
Ha. True software developers understand the wisdom of code reuse. So ,in my opinion, if a fledgling developer takes a set of code and applies addons, makes a few setting changes then calls it a ROM and provides users benefit...then they are on the path. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using Tapatalk 2
andrawer said: Ha. True software developers understand the wisdom of code reuse. So ,in my opinion, if a fledgling developer takes a set of code and applies addons, makes a few setting changes then calls it a ROM and provides users benefit...then they are on the path. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using Tapatalk 2 Click to expand... Click to collapse Even if they fail to write a single line of original code? I'm with cyanogen on this one...
saddly alll this is sementic if the world of android was perfect then this would be true .by perfect i mean everything being open source ... but if everything was open source we woudlnt have things like arc touchwizz blurr or sense , it is my opinion and shared by many others that android would be very boring if we only had aosp . what does a coder brings to touchwiz sense or blurr device ? the market is filled with cool apps and launcher .. 99% of them coders will make apps for android and wont bother with anything else that brings me to my next point . building from source means on top of aosp , or in my terms vanilla android .. many devs love vanilla and its fine but what about those who dont ? 99% of the rom on xda are just that : either source compiled with apps added or stock deodex rom with a theme and apps added .. here is the but , and before i say it i wanna say everyone is entitled to his opinion and im not bashing anyone , without guys like me who just hack the code and spend countless hours looking at what the code is actually doing and port the nice stuff from sense to TW or form CM to TW and RE (reverse engineer all these nice codes) 99% percent of the android devices would be boring because lets face it there is only one aosp device / year.. so from what Cyanogen is saying we should all buy a gnex and stop supporting those that make android close source, but wait without them , many things woudlnt be in CM in the first place , what is cm without all these kangs? a glorified aosp ? ok maybe im pushing but you get my drift... how many true innovations by Cyanogen vs them Proprietary UI ? fun fact the head (or ex ) of Cyanoen now works at samsung and help make touchwiz better (close source) what about miui , they have so many innovations , and they dont share any of there code .. so as I said there is no black or white here thats what android is all about make your own thing play with it call it yours and make it a hobby , and maybe just maybe others will like it ... I have seen way to many devs get god like status on xda for deodexing a rom and injecting voodoo in there kernel (for example) i ve seen crazy talented themers have there work taken by others be ignored by the community and then vanished , and everyday we see a kik ass true developper on here and treat him like hes a nobody , because he doesnt have or because we havent heard of his rom ..... i completely understand where cm is coming form but my opinion differs slightly .. @op kik ass thread (as I never read the front page)
Hard to build an i717 ROM from scratch with all of the proprietary bits, Samsung framework, etc, as most of that is proprietary as DAGr8 says. AOSP/AOKP works, but lacking some SPen functions and still relying heavily on a binary kernel as there are no kernel sources for ICS yet. Hopefully the kernel situation changes, and we're back to the normal business of everything except the proprietary blobs that have to get copied from a stock ROM...... It'd be nice if all required code was released, but for some reason such things tend to be considered proprietary. Oh well.
Thanks OP. I also don't read the frontpage near often enough. I like what Cyanogen is saying, and agree with his points from his developer point of view. I also agree with DAGr8 and his points. The fact is that Android gives us so many choices and has so many options for exploration. I think that's why so many of us have moved to the Android ecosystem. There is enough room for everyone. Android is the most prevalent mobile OS in the world for a reason. We can all have our opinions. We can all have what we want on our devices. And there are more and more people willing and able to jump in and try to build. Call them developers, or hackers, or derivators. It doesn't matter to me. They all add value to Android.
Ready for some WAVES...
Theres something that was pointed out to me by a new friend, that I had to vent about.. so HERE IT IS!!1 Why are some people too good to hang out in their threads and answer questions about the builds they post??? It seems to me that it builds credibility, to help the people using your build, so why not hang out and answer questions, address issues, help finding solutions, offer advice... BE HUMAN Sure its great that new builds are being pushed out constantly... BUT IF YOURE NOT TALKING TO THE PEOPLE RUNNING THE CURRENT ONE AND EXPERIENCING PROBLEMS WHAT GOOD IS IT???? Step down from the clouds, and walk barefoot on the grass with the rest of us.. its cool and refreshing on your feet
WOW Man.. pitbull8265 said: Theres something that was pointed out to me by a new friend, that I had to vent about.. so HERE IT IS!!1 Why are some people too good to hang out in their threads and answer questions about the builds they post??? It seems to me that it builds credibility, to help the people using your build, so why not hang out and answer questions, address issues, help finding solutions, offer advice... BE HUMAN Sure its great that new builds are being pushed out constantly... BUT IF YOURE NOT TALKING TO THE PEOPLE RUNNING THE CURRENT ONE AND EXPERIENCING PROBLEMS WHAT GOOD IS IT???? Step down from the clouds, and walk barefoot on the grass with the rest of us.. its cool and refreshing on your feet Click to expand... Click to collapse Could not have said it better.... You hit the nail right on the head.. People respect those who back their work with support:good::good::good: This DOES seem to be in SHORT reserve.. WELL STATED
Impressive I have noticed this too.. Its like these people are too GOOD for Q&A and sometimes even respond to questions like they are PETTY and an inconvenience.. There ARE some who DO help, and those people deserve to know they are appreciated.. You in particular, have helped me a ton, so thanks.. Maybe you'll start a movement, and more people will start doing their part to help their followers...
+1 There is a SERIOUS shortage of helpers and an overage of shovelers All these builds keep coming, and still the same problems on the one they put out before with a different NAME for the ROM.. Its like they change the name and recycled it.. I read through threads now, and if the OP doesn't hang out and help their users, I wont use their builds anymore.
Couldn't agree more!! Nicely said too Be proud of your work.. Stick around and make sure people can..ya know, enjoy it too.. It's quality not quantity that matters. Stepping on other teams and developers to rush something out just to say "FIRST" will get you no where.. So while timely updates are important, if that's the only thing you post in your own thread.. "New build is up" when there's been 10 pages of people asking questions... I'll never support you, both publicly or financially. I understand new enthusiast can be quite frustrating or maybe you just aren't a people type of person.. team up with someone that is... pass the q&a on to them, but do fricking something, people want support for YOUR roms and if you put out 20..that means all 20.
Exactly, how dare these developers not spend any time in the forums answering the same useless non-informative questions over and over. How dare they spend countless hours building a ROMs for free and then share it for others to use. How dare they spend time with their families and go to their actual job and have a life. How dare they….. (/sarcasm)
mapatton82 said: Exactly, how dare these developers not spend any time in the forums answering the same useless non-informative questions over and over. How dare they spend countless hours building a ROMs for free and then share it for others to use. How dare they spend time with their families and go to their actual job and have a life. How dare they….. (/sarcasm) Click to expand... Click to collapse Yea, I'm somewhere between this and the op. They shouldn't be 100% absent, but on the same note, some consideration for the above quote is in order too. While were venting, its possible the devs haven't figured out how to fix some of these issues, but it doesn't do a dam bit of good for 50 people to complain about the same thing and no one is posting logcats. So don't complain about things not getting fixed, if your not attaching logs to every post about issues. Just my 2c, add 97c more and go buy a cheeseburger. Sent from my G3, Unlocked by Team Codefire
mapatton82 said: Exactly, how dare these developers not spend any time in the forums answering the same useless non-informative questions over and over. How dare they spend countless hours building a ROMs for free and then share it for others to use. How dare they spend time with their families and go to their actual job and have a life. How dare they….. (/sarcasm) Click to expand... Click to collapse Then why put out 20 instead of 1 that they can handle is the point!!
Variety is the spice of life. I'd rather have 20 that will get fixed eventually than just 1 that works perfectly. If they are all too similar for you then just move on to another one, build your own, or just wait for fully featured lollipop which will be here soon enough. If a thread is maintained or not - I'm just happy to have a thread. A couple devs have walked away already and it'd suck if more left. Just be grateful for what we've got and be patient.
Kris Nelson said: Then why put out 20 instead of 1 that they can handle is the point!! Click to expand... Click to collapse The same person is not releasing 20 different versions. Also, most are all based off of the AOSP core source, but each dev might add their own touch/flare to it. But, since each one is based off of AOSP, then more than likely, they will all have the same issues, unless the dev has made some changes. I'd rather have a lot of choices than none. Believe me, when there is NO dev support (that is, a lot of ROMs being release), then you get even MORE whining of "Why isn't there any ROMs/dev support for this?" Maybe you're not a dev, but I am (not for ROMs but that is my full-time job). Development takes a lot of time. I do it at work and to do it at home as well, especially for something that is free, takes a lot of time and dedication. Especially, ROM development is NOT an easy task. Rebuilding ROMs takes at least 90 minutes or more, depending on the speed of your machine, the size of the source code, etc. Heck, I've pulled down the git for CM12 and it's 12gb in size (source code only, not compiled) and it took hours to download over my high-speed internet connection at home. I can understand wanting support if you PAID for it, but this is free, people. Free. They don't ask for anything in return monetarily, and yet, we see people demanding support as if they paid for it. You get what you pay for, and in this case, it's free. But I feel the support most devs give is very good, considering it's free. Also, for things like CM, it's usually not just one dev, but several who have responsibilities for different parts of the Android code base. So, just because one guy posts about it, doesn't mean he's the only dev on it. He might be sending your findings back to the other devs. Also, you DON'T have to flash these custom ROMs. They all have disclaimers that the dev is not responsible for any damages that may occur to your phone. They don't guarantee support, but it's there for you to use. However, who is to say they aren't monitoring the forums? Just because they don't respond, doesn't mean they aren't looking into the issues you report. Yes, I understand how you want a response from them, but in the end, it is your choice whether you want to flash or not. They didn't twist your arm to do it. Keep posting your defects. Most devs, the good ones, do monitor the forums and take note of the issues. However, they know about other major issues that they are probably trying to work on. Again, for most, it is done in their spare time. I myself would like to build and release ROMs, but right now, I don't have the time. it's not just "make a change, compile, release". There is a lot of researching, debugging, etc that must go on. Those that are programmers understand this. And, once you fix a bug, you don't just go and release it (under normal circumstances). You have to go through a complete testing cycle, retesting previous tests along with any new tests to ensure you didn't break something else. It's not that simple. However, with these free releases, WE are the testers. WE are the ones that report back the issues so they can be addressed. Post them here, or even some devs have Twitter pages where you can post defects. Not all, but some. In the end, be thankful you have so many choices. Yes, it may seem as if they are all the same, and in some cases they are and some are from people who just want to say "look I released a ROM" and then you never hear from them again. But, in the case of XDA, to post about a ROM in the dev forum, I believe you have to be an identified developer, so they do have to go through some vetting process. So, more than likely, they are legit developers, not a fly-by-night person. Just wanted to get that off my chest. I understand what people feel, but you have to understand, this is not an easy thing to do. Maybe a lot of you understand that, but I find that a lot don't. Or, they say they understand, when they really don't. They just "think" they understand. Wow. Off the soapbox. It just burns me as a developer when I see things like this. Yes, I understand where you are coming from, but sometimes, I think you need to hear it from the other side as well. Ciao!
If you're a good parent, when you bring a child into this world, you raise it, and nurture it... creating it is not enough... noun 1. the act or process of developing; growth; progress:
iBolski said: The same person is not releasing 20 different versions. Also, most are all based off of the AOSP core source, but each dev might add their own touch/flare to it. But, since each one is based off of AOSP, then more than likely, they will all have the same issues, unless the dev has made some changes. I'd rather have a lot of choices than none. Believe me, when there is NO dev support (that is, a lot of ROMs being release), then you get even MORE whining of "Why isn't there any ROMs/dev support for this?" Maybe you're not a dev, but I am (not for ROMs but that is my full-time job). Development takes a lot of time. I do it at work and to do it at home as well, especially for something that is free, takes a lot of time and dedication. Especially, ROM development is NOT an easy task. Rebuilding ROMs takes at least 90 minutes or more, depending on the speed of your machine, the size of the source code, etc. Heck, I've pulled down the git for CM12 and it's 12gb in size (source code only, not compiled) and it took hours to download over my high-speed internet connection at home. I can understand wanting support if you PAID for it, but this is free, people. Free. They don't ask for anything in return monetarily, and yet, we see people demanding support as if they paid for it. You get what you pay for, and in this case, it's free. But I feel the support most devs give is very good, considering it's free. Also, for things like CM, it's usually not just one dev, but several who have responsibilities for different parts of the Android code base. So, just because one guy posts about it, doesn't mean he's the only dev on it. He might be sending your findings back to the other devs. Also, you DON'T have to flash these custom ROMs. They all have disclaimers that the dev is not responsible for any damages that may occur to your phone. They don't guarantee support, but it's there for you to use. However, who is to say they aren't monitoring the forums? Just because they don't respond, doesn't mean they aren't looking into the issues you report. Yes, I understand how you want a response from them, but in the end, it is your choice whether you want to flash or not. They didn't twist your arm to do it. Keep posting your defects. Most devs, the good ones, do monitor the forums and take note of the issues. However, they know about other major issues that they are probably trying to work on. Again, for most, it is done in their spare time. I myself would like to build and release ROMs, but right now, I don't have the time. it's not just "make a change, compile, release". There is a lot of researching, debugging, etc that must go on. Those that are programmers understand this. And, once you fix a bug, you don't just go and release it (under normal circumstances). You have to go through a complete testing cycle, retesting previous tests along with any new tests to ensure you didn't break something else. It's not that simple. However, with these free releases, WE are the testers. WE are the ones that report back the issues so they can be addressed. Post them here, or even some devs have Twitter pages where you can post defects. Not all, but some. In the end, be thankful you have so many choices. Yes, it may seem as if they are all the same, and in some cases they are and some are from people who just want to say "look I released a ROM" and then you never hear from them again. But, in the case of XDA, to post about a ROM in the dev forum, I believe you have to be an identified developer, so they do have to go through some vetting process. So, more than likely, they are legit developers, not a fly-by-night person. Just wanted to get that off my chest. I understand what people feel, but you have to understand, this is not an easy thing to do. Maybe a lot of you understand that, but I find that a lot don't. Or, they say they understand, when they really don't. They just "think" they understand. Wow. Off the soapbox. It just burns me as a developer when I see things like this. Yes, I understand where you are coming from, but sometimes, I think you need to hear it from the other side as well. Ciao! Click to expand... Click to collapse Thank you.. Just to correct you though.. There ARE the same persons that are putting out 20 different versions (1 developer. releasing 20 different roms.) That was just the point i was making.. I do personally research before i ever flash a rom or anything..and trust me i donate!! LOL
Kris Nelson said: Thank you.. Just to correct you though.. There ARE the same persons that are putting out 20 different versions (1 developer. releasing 20 different roms.) That was just the point i was making.. I do personally research before i ever flash a rom or anything..and trust me i donate!! LOL Click to expand... Click to collapse I see who you are talking about. If you read the OP, at the bottom, he gives thanks to the devs on these ROMs. I don't think he's a developer at all. At least, his profile doesn't say so. I think he just finds all these ROMs and posts links to them. I could be wrong, and I apologize if I am if that person is reading this thread, but I don't see where the OP of the 5+ ROM threads is the actual developer for them. It's almost like he does the "announcing" for the devs of those ROMs. And since it does appear that you do not have to be a developer to post in the standard DEV forum, then that makes even more sense. I do know that in another forum I frequented a lot, you were given developer status and only developers could create new threads in the DEV/ROM forum. That was to prevent a lot of "spam" postings of ROMs. Makes me wonder if that's what is happening here.
iBolski said: I see who you are talking about. If you read the OP, at the bottom, he gives thanks to the devs on these ROMs. I don't think he's a developer at all. At least, his profile doesn't say so. I think he just finds all these ROMs and posts links to them. I could be wrong, and I apologize if I am if that person is reading this thread, but I don't see where the OP of the 5+ ROM threads is the actual developer for them. It's almost like he does the "announcing" for the devs of those ROMs. Click to expand... Click to collapse I wish you were correct but nope, he is the builder and maintainer. Trust me many more than 5+ when you include other carriers as well.. But not just the one, others have started as well... It's very frustrating that after 1 week, several messages of a very specific problem (not mine just someone i was helping) on different sites where they are posted.. I have to track down someone that i know can help but has NOTHING to do with any of these roms...and gets zippy cash.. Though he should..lol Anyway, i truly value great developers and have learned who to support and who not to. I like to help people so the developers can build awesome stuff and its my way of keeping the simple crap of your plate so you can do just that..but when i can't even find the answer, the developer should be available. Just saw your edit.. Yes i think that is happening too. I was always under the assumption that builders/maintainers did so for the actual devise and carriers they use.. I guess that's no longer the case.
Oadam11 is a builder of various roms for our G3's from source repositories available for anyone to build from, and anyone to commit to. He may or may not be doing any commits/merge requests - and even if he did those contributions might not be accepted into the various G3 forks. In any case, he might not be in a position to contribute to feature requests or bug fixes. He might not be running his own builds of all these roms, past checking to see if they will boot and more or less work. Say Team Vanir does a fork of their work for the G3, an official one. Ok, then you would ask for support from members of Team Vanir, sure, though you might not get much, depending on a lot of factors (including your attitude...) Then consider the possibility that someone just builds something like Commotio from publicly available sources, with just enough tweaks from somewhere to get it to compile and run, unofficially, on one or more G3 variants. I suspect that is where oadam11 is coming from. He doesn't create the roms, he builds them for G3's. He watches the repositories for each rom he has built for us, and when he sees that rom's devs have checked in and merged useful updates, then he rebuilds for us when he has time. Builds take a while. Then he makes them available for us users to download and install them, after some degree of testing. The point is that he is in no way responsible for supporting the builds he produces of these team's work. It would be impossible for him to anyway. I am sure he gets permission and some degree of cooperation from any team project he builds from, but he is NOT a team member, or major contributor, for all of them. He is a noble builder and distributor, and you should expect nothing more from him than What he is already providing. If you want to get a problem or new feature dealt with on any given rom, you must deal with the team's source contributers by raising issues on their gerrit or maybe working on an outstanding and team-prioritized bug as a contributor. Sent from my VS985 4G using Tapatalk
Thank you..you actually confirmed the point I was making. However, is the average person going to know all this? Of course not...should they do their research prior, of course but they don't... I see good teams being hurt by this as well.. Vanir just had an issue the other day.. Something is being lost in translation and by no means was i only referring to Adam.
I understand. It is interesting that in G+ just a little why ago someone asked David Kessler of Team Vanir who was their maintainer of the G3 Vanir and he replied that they don't have one. There was also discussion about someone providing support, like answering questions. The idea of supporting a clueless user who had tried to flash TouchWiz onto a Vanir device, by beating the user over the head with an iPhone6+ was suggested. The devs have no patience with such users, generally. That said, Holy Angel seems exceptional. Sent from my VS985 4G using Tapatalk
The problem I have, is that when a person POSTS a Rom, and are the OP, they need to support what they post, and help the people posting questions in the thread, or BOW OUT!!! There are people posting and dumping... DONT Post a ROM if you're not willing or able to help the team you are Posting links to... Dont post it and then say "Any problems, contact THEM" THAT PERSON mentioned, has a lot of them, all as OP, none supported other than.."New build up"
Raising the age limit for COPPA The amount of entitlement exhibited in this thread is phenomenal. Yes, by all means don't use a build if the developer (who has actually done some REAL WORK) won't support you to your liking. That will really teach those mean developers a lesson. Don't forget to complain about the slow speeds of free downloads as well. It's also a good idea to stop using a build if the developer won't add features you want, and soon, too.
DeanGibson said: The amount of entitlement exhibited in this thread is phenomenal. Yes, by all means don't use a build if the developer (who has actually done some REAL WORK) won't support you to his/her liking. That will really teach those mean developers a lesson. Don't forget to complain about the slow speeds of free downloads as well. It's also a good idea to stop using a build if the developer won't add features you want, and soon, too. Click to expand... Click to collapse Just because you want a feature, doesn't mean it's a good feature to add. If you did that, you would end up with something that could eventually become impossible to maintain. There are SO many bugs right now in the AOSP code that these devs are trying to fix to make it work on this phone. I would rather those get fixed first. And, do you think you are the only one to ask for features? I'm a developer, not for android, but I write code for a living. And what you are asking for is what we call "scope creep". We have to weed out the "must haves" with the "wants". Must haves are the things that they user must have in order to perform their job. This is usually adding functionality that isn't there currently that is needed to complete their job. The "wants" are "I would like to have the ability to clear out all background apps with a single button or swipe". That is NOT needed on this phone, but it's a nice "to have" option, but it doesn't affect the overall performance of the OS itself. Yes, you might say it does because you can clear out the background apps, but in reality, those apps are NOT running. I don't want to get into the specifics of android app management, but those apps you see in the "recent apps" history are NOT running. They are suspended and not taking up ANY CPU cycles, what-so-ever. If they happen to be, then it's a poorly written app, and it means the dev knowingly circumvented the Android OS app management process which is a big no-no. In that case, you should go back to the dev of the app and demand they fix that. But, you are free not to install the ROM. That's fine and that's your choice, but it just irks me when I see people make complaints like this who probably have no idea what the software development life cycle is all about. To me, fixing bugs right now is the main issue, not adding pretty enhancements to the OS. And who's to say they aren't working on what you ask, especially if you ask for fixes to major issues (such as battery life, radio, etc)? Remember, these are UNOFFICIAL releases. They are based off of AOSP source which is pretty much device-agnostic except when it comes to Nexus devices since those are Google devices and therefore, the AOSP source is built for those type of devices. Android is completely different from iOS. iOS is built for a set of hardware that doesn't have much variance like Android does. Hence, that is why Apple controls both the software AND the hardware of iPhones. It means less fragmentation across devices, but it also means, they decide what is best and you have no way of getting the source. Google releases the source for Android so you CAN have these custom ROMs built. But, because one Android device has a different hardware configuration from another (CPU and GPU's being the biggest ones), then anything that can take advantage of the hardware architecture for a particular phone means having to change the AOSP source to use any of those "advantages" from that hardware. Which then means, that source no longer works on other phones, only for the phone they modified it for. So, give the devs some slack, please. They are working hard on it and it's not one dev. If it were, then give the guy even MORE slack. The source for Android is over 12gb along. That is where it's not even compiled. And, compiling the android source generally takes about 90 minutes. So, each "fix" they do requires recompiling (90 minutes) and then testing. Then, more than likely, the "fix" either didn't work or it possibly broke something else. That means, going back, determining the issue, fixing it, recompiling (wait another 90 minutes) and test again. That all takes time, people. We developers are NOT magicians, even though it might seem like it. So, try to imagine trying to fix all the big bugs that you know about, then have to come here, read through ALL the posts and then log those requests down, prioritize them based on all the other work you have, make those changes, recompile, test, etc. It's not a easy and it gets frustrating. But believe me, when we do fix an issue or are able to give the users what they want, we get an extreme amount of satisfaction knowing that we were able to satisfy the "customer". So please, be careful what you state about devs. Those that do read here usually have thick skins, but complain enough, and they might just quit and then you have nothing. I understand where people are coming from, but you've been blaming the devs when it's not their fault. Again, the android source is huge and it takes more than one person to work on it. Especially if they are responsible for more than one device. Some devs are working on source for more than just this phone. So, add that to what I already stated and hopefully, you can begin to understand what the devs are going through.