My question is what tells the OS what the battery voltage and percentage is? Is this hardware on the mainboard or is it in the kernel? To understand why I ask then read this thread.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1353417
If its in the kernel then could it be possible to have a custom kernel built that will report the correct voltage for us tbolt users having this problem?
So I reckon I'm stuck with half battery life?
Have you tried a different battery?
The charger IC is controlled through a kernel driver, once the battery hits a certain voltage it will stop charging.
Typically when these batteries start to die they will drop voltage a lot faster than normal (making it look like it didn't charge correctly).
I'd try using a different battery to see to see if the results are the same. If they are the same this IC is probably faulty.
This will show battery voltage in mV:
Code:
cat /sys/class/power_supply/battery/batt_vol
drebbe said:
Have you tried a different battery?
The charger IC is controlled through a kernel driver, once the battery hits a certain voltage it will stop charging.
Typically when these batteries start to die they will drop voltage a lot faster than normal (making it look like it didn't charge correctly).
I'd try using a different battery to see to see if the results are the same. If they are the same this IC is probably faulty.
This will show battery voltage in mV:
Code:
cat /sys/class/power_supply/battery/batt_vol
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The battery isn't the problem. The phone actually charges the battery all the way it just doesn't read the correct voltage. It reads about .3 volts lower than what the battery actually is which makes the phone shut off .3 volts too early. Full charge is 4.2 volts and that's what the battery reads with a meter after an overnight charge but in the phone it only reads 3.9xx volts. It should shut off around 3.5 volts and it does but the voltage will actually be around 3.8xx when checked with a meter. See what I'm saying? It reads .3 volts lower in the phone.
What is IC and is possible to have a custom driver to offset for the wrong voltage being reported? This is a common problem with alot of tbolts. I tried PMing a couple kernel devs and got no response.
Related
Is it possible that if i use another device charger like blackberry or whatever compatible may give me a better battery life ? I saw on x8 forums a guy claimed using an htc charger and posted a screenshot where it showed up to 6 days of usage !
Thaanks.
Sent from my X10i using XDA Premium App
shahkam said:
Is it possible that if i use another device charger like blackberry or whatever compatible may give me a better battery life ? I saw on x8 forums a guy claimed using an htc charger and posted a screenshot where it showed up to 6 days of usage !
Thaanks.
Sent from my X10i using XDA Premium App
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The charger is just a simple 5 volt power supply.
The charging circuits are in fact integrated into the device/phone itself.
You woulnd't be able to affect the battery capacity in any way by using a different charger.
I'd say that claim about improved battery life due to changing the charger is very unlikely. I'd call it a fake.
Perhaps improve charging time, but not improving battery capacity.
SysGhost said:
The charger is just a simple 5 volt power supply.
The charging circuits are in fact integrated into the device/phone itself.
You woulnd't be able to affect the battery capacity in any way by using a different charger.
I'd say that claim about improved battery life due to changing the charger is very unlikely. I'd call it a fake.
Perhaps improve charging time, but not improving battery capacity.
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oooh thanks because the guy said the other charger was way more powerfull and it overcharged which caused an extreme change in his battery life but thanks anyways
shahkam said:
oooh thanks because the guy said the other charger was way more powerfull and it overcharged which caused an extreme change in his battery life but thanks anyways
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Overcharging a lipo battery in a device such as the X10 (Lithium Polymer) would end up in either one of these scenarios:
Scenario 1: Phone and battery overheats, thermal protection kicks in and disables charging permanently.
Scenario 2: Phone and battery overheats, frying the internal charging circuits. Permanent damage.
Scenario 3: Phone and battery overheats, causing an explosion. Worst case: exploded battery catches fire.
Battery fires are tricky to put out and can cause major damage, not only to the device, but also to everything around it.
Don't worry tho.
As long as the charger, or whatever power supply you're using, gives 5 volt DC with correct polarisation, you'll be safe.
But as soon you fiddle around with different voltages, specially anything higher than 5 volts, it starts getting dangerous.
There is a common misunderstanding on how volts and currents works.
People tend to believe a charger with higher currents will do better. That is wrong.
It isn't the charger that "pushes" the current. It's the device that "draws" the current needed.
Example: If the device needs 700 miliamps, and the charger can give 5000 milliamps there will be 4300 milliamps left over.
In theory one could connect 7 devices to the same charger: 7x700=4900, and still have 100 milliamps left over.
What would happen if the device draws more than the charger can give? The device wouldn't charge at all, as the charger would "drop out" in one way or another by either shutting down, or lowering it's own voltage below "acceptable level"
SysGhost said:
Overcharging a lipo battery in a device such as the X10 (Lithium Polymer) would end up in either one of these scenarios:
Scenario 1: Phone and battery overheats, thermal protection kicks in and disables charging permanently.
Scenario 2: Phone and battery overheats, frying the internal charging circuits. Permanent damage.
Scenario 3: Phone and battery overheats, causing an explosion. Worst case: exploded battery catches fire.
Battery fires are tricky to put out and can cause major damage, not only to the device, but also to everything around it.
Don't worry tho.
As long as the charger, or whatever power supply you're using, gives 5 volt DC with correct polarisation, you'll be safe.
But as soon you fiddle around with different voltages, specially anything higher than 5 volts, it starts getting dangerous.
There is a common misunderstanding on how volts and currents works.
People tend to believe a charger with higher currents will do better. That is wrong.
It isn't the charger that "pushes" the current. It's the device that "draws" the current needed.
Example: If the device needs 700 miliamps, and the charger can give 5000 milliamps there will be 4300 milliamps left over.
In theory one could connect 7 devices to the same charger: 7x700=4900, and still have 100 milliamps left over.
What would happen if the device draws more than the charger can give? The device wouldn't charge at all, as the charger would "drop out" in one way or another by either shutting down, or lowering it's own voltage below "acceptable level"
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Thanks for the very detailed explication ! I thanked you and i thank you lol
Sent from my X10i using XDA Premium App
hi all,
anyone knows if there is an app or a way to check what is the voltage being pumped into the s2 during charging?
i am not referring to the voltage measured on the battery as i understand that is the voltage from the battery to the phone
tx
With a supported kernel, CurrentWidget will.
Battery Version 1.0.9
That's the name of an application i am using: it shows many numbers about your battery, and makes estimations about how much time left for it to drain, and how much time is left using a specific activity till it's drained.
The application has a standard battery voltage meter, and it changes if you plug/unplug the charger, so maybe you can calculate the difference? Does it work that way?
hi bro
currentwidget can check the voltage being pumped out from wall charger to the phone?
Hello, I've recenty installed Battery Circle from the F-Droid repos on my SG Wifi 4.2 (UK version).
I don't know how accurate the voltage readings are but I have noticed that when the battery drops to 15% capacity (and you get a warning to plug the charger as soon as possible), the battery is still on 3.55/3.6 Volt, which is way above the safe limit of 3 Volt, as suggested by this article on Battery University:
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/charging_lithium_ion_batteries
Over-discharging Lithium-ion
Li-ion should never be discharged too low, and there are several safeguards to prevent this from happening. The equipment cuts off when the battery discharges to about 3.0V/cell, stopping the current flow.
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I've let the battery drop down to 3% and it was still above 3.5V.
I always switch off the device when I charge it, it that makes any difference.
Any clues? Thanks
I know it's rude but I need to bump this thread.
By the way I've let the SGP drop down to 2% battery and still showed 3.49V in Battery Circle. I wonder if either the battery percentage or the voltage indicator are reliable.
If you want to know the true voltage state of the battery remove it and check it with a voltmeter.
AEVAREX said:
If you want to know the true voltage state of the battery remove it and check it with a voltmeter.
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I know this is not the same device but i let my yp-g1 (sgp4.0 for those not familiar with model numbers) drop all the way to 0, something I didnt think was possable. what i did was plugged it in and let it sit for about 10 minutes until it had enough charge to turn on and let it finish charging, good as new. What I learned from this is that the battery will always have some charge, however, it will not necessarily be enough to turn on. also batteries tend to output just a little more than they are speced, for example, if you take a standard brand new AA battery and hook up a multimeter to it, it will read something along the lines of 1.8 volts, this is ok and the battery in thease devices does the same thing. in the end, don't worry about it.
I have developed a kernel patch that allows controlling the charge voltage of the battery. Lowering the charge voltage will typically increase battery cycle life by 2x for 0.1V and potentially much more at high temperatures. The default charge voltage is 4.3V, so with 4.2V you can expect 2x the battery life; with 4.1V 4x the battery life (the battery won't be fully charged).
The patch adds a new sysfs control: '/sys/devices/i2c-0/0-006a/float_voltage'. The setting is in milli-Volt; 3800mV - 4300mV is allowed. The charger supports 20mV increments.
For setting the charge voltage permanently, you can add something like:
echo 4100 > /sys/devices/i2c-0/0-006a/float_voltage
to an init script.
For my N7:
4.0V -> 73% charge
4.1V -> 83% charge
4.2V -> 93% charge
4.3V -> 100% charge
(The patch is against the stock kernel.)
The patch is included in the ElementalX kernel:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2389022
and the Glitch kernel:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2449919
anyone care to try first? is it any different than undervolting with custom kernel?
adichandra said:
anyone care to try first? is it any different than undervolting with custom kernel?
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This is very different. It isn't supposed to increase battery runtime, it's supposed to decrease it.
It allows allows to not completely charge the battery. In return, the battery won't deteriorate as quickly. Making up numbers here: if the battery would normally survive 300 charge cycles (charged to 4.3V); if you only charge to 4.2V (or about 93% capacity), the battery would last for 600 charge cycles before it's dead.
ah i thought this tweak was about to give double battery life in one single charge. might be usef for others but not me though since i never use a gadget more than 18 months. thanks
adichandra said:
ah i thought this tweak was about to give double battery life in one single charge. might be usef for others but not me though since i never use a gadget more than 18 months. thanks
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No it extends your battery life as in the longevity. The battery life that we usually think of is how long the battery will last on a charge like you were thinking. That's not what this mod is for. Such a mod that you were hoping for doesn't exist.
tiny4579 said:
No it extends your battery life as in the longevity. The battery life that we usually think of is how long the battery will last on a charge like you were thinking. That's not what this mod is for. Such a mod that you were hoping for doesn't exist.
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Click to collapse
Oh how they can wish though. Though still good work regardless, and very useful.
Anyone know the actual estimate for the amount of charge cycles the battery can handle before giving up the ghost?
I tend to agree with adichandra.. In today's consumer market, most gadjets are usually obsolete after 18 months..
Sent from my Nexus 7 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
So charge cycles are extended by never allowing the battery to charge to 100%? Sounds similar to a feature on my thinkpad laptop that let's you set the charge and discharge thresholds.
Thank you for posting this!
OJ in Compton said:
So charge cycles are extended by never allowing the battery to charge to 100%? Sounds similar to a feature on my thinkpad laptop that let's you set the charge and discharge thresholds.
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Yes. Same idea. Some Samsung laptops have this as well.
How can we apply this patch? Sorry for such a noob question...
marcus6999 said:
How can we apply this patch? Sorry for such a noob question...
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If you are not building your own kernel, there will hopefully be a few kernels in this section that will include this.
If you are building your own kernel, you can take the posted 'smb345-charger.c' and replace 'drivers/power/smb345-charger.c' in your kernel tree. It's based on the stock kernel.
tni.andro said:
This is very different. It isn't supposed to increase battery runtime, it's supposed to decrease it.
It allows allows to not completely charge the battery. In return, the battery won't deteriorate as quickly. Making up numbers here: if the battery would normally survive 300 charge cycles (charged to 4.3V); if you only charge to 4.2V (or about 93% capacity), the battery would last for 600 charge cycles before it's dead.
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Click to collapse
Most kernels on all my phones have ability to set precisely the % you want battery charged up too. Haven't seen it for flo/razor
Sent from Pimped N7 (2013) XDA PREMIUM
Hmm that's a good suggestion. Truly to increase the battery charge cycle life by almost 2x you just have to charge it until 90%.
So basically you don't charge it to max voltage and you don't let the charger begin the high voltage stabilization.
So with normally (good Lithium batteries these days) 500 charge cycles you go for 1000 and so on.
I was searching for something like that, because it's a tablet that can last through many years.
I think it's a great feature and all kernels should implement and have it at stock. And let the user decide and choose voltage with an easy script if he wants it.
Battery life year extender
Thank you
tni.andro said:
If you are not building your own kernel, there will hopefully be a few kernels in this section that will include this.
If you are building your own kernel, you can take the posted 'smb345-charger.c' and replace 'drivers/power/smb345-charger.c' in your kernel tree. It's based on the stock kernel.
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Click to collapse
I'm going to add this in the next update to ElementalX
CTCaer said:
Hmm that's a good suggestion. Truly to increase the battery charge cycle life by almost 2x you just have to charge it until 90%.
So basically you don't charge it to max voltage and you don't let the charger begin the high voltage stabilization.
So with normally (good Lithium batteries these days) 500 charge cycles you go for 1000 and so on.
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There is no good reason to use battery percentage to terminate the charge, instead of using a lower charger float voltage. Likely the only reason a percentage cutoff was used in other cases is that the charger chip didn't support setting the voltage.
The voltage setting is also much more predictable - the battery gauge can be quite unreliable in terms of charge estimate and easily jump 10% when it recalibrates itself.
Can anyone post the source of info for 2x battery cycle if only charge up to 4.2v? I read that not charging lithiums to full charge can help extended life but never seen anyone give estimates like 2x at 4.2v and 4x for 4.1v. Estimates seem a bit high to me. I agree with others here that this tablet can last a few years if the battery holds up so I was planning on replacing the battery after a year or two but if lowering the battery voltage really works this well then I will try it. There is a pretty big downside of having almost 10% less battery life all the time.
neotekz said:
Can anyone post the source of info for 2x battery cycle if only charge up to 4.2v?
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http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
http://macomp.ru/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/1607542.pdf
http://www.eetasia.com/STATIC/PDF/200806/EEOL_2008JUN16_POW_TA_01.pdf
tni.andro said:
There is no good reason to use battery percentage to terminate the charge, instead of using a lower charger float voltage.
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Of course there is. The last 10% to 20% are causing the most aging of a lithium ion battery.
If you really want to prolonge the live of your battery charge it only up to 80%.
There is no real reason to limit the voltage as the stock hardware and drivers handles this already really good by adopting the charging voltage dynamically.
There's no reason to change charger's voltage. The only thing there's meaning in changing in the charger side is output current.
For example with the size of Nexus battery you can use a 1A one or 800mA. It will charge slow but you can maintain some more charge cycles.
Still the most important is to not let the battery reach it's maximum voltage (100%) and let the charger do it's voltage stabilization.
As also said from others before that's what takes the battery charge life away.
The best for good juice and year protection is 90%.
The best for year extension and low juice is 60%.
And of course, when you really need 100% juice (trip, flight, beach, whatever) you just charge it full and don't care for some cycles.
Good batteries have -+500 Full charge cycles. So almost one and a half year if you go from 100->0->100 everyday, before the capacity (mAh) of battery drops.
tni.andro said:
There is no good reason to use battery percentage to terminate the charge, instead of using a lower charger float voltage.
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TDO said:
The last 10% to 20% are causing the most aging of a lithium ion battery.
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That's correct.
If you really want to prolonge the live of your battery charge it only up to 80%.
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Click to collapse
That's exactly what lowering the charger float voltage can do. The original post has numbers for different voltages. E.g. with a 4.1V charger float voltage, the charger will stop charging at 83% charge.
There is no real reason to limit the voltage as the stock hardware and drivers handles this already really good by adopting the charging voltage dynamically.
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Click to collapse
The stock driver sets the charger float voltage to 4.3V. Given that there is current limiting (1200mA input current limit), the voltage will be lower initially, but the voltage regulation is 4.3V once the current is low enough.
Like I mentioned, using the battery percentage as cutoff isn't great, since the battery gauge can be pretty inaccurate (can be off by >10%). Setting the float voltage lower results in the same charge cuttoff every time, even if the battery gauge makes an inaccurate estimate.
I am using the latest LineagOS. I thought Le Max 2 has QC3.0 support which should let it run at 12v charge voltage, but it does not.
The best it does is 9V and 1.6A (measured using usb meter) totaling to 14.4W. I tried the phone at room temperature, also cooled it down in fridge and tried again. Results are same. The battery was 1% - 3% at start.
Is this normal? I calculated and 14.4W if batteryt was charged to 4.35V makes roughly 3300mA which sounds rather low. I expected phone to go around 4100mA at least while charging.
More importantly, it never switches to 12V charging voltage. Is that normal?
my phone is going up to 4100mA while charging. On some roms you have to enable quick charge in your phones settings.
@LivingLing did you test with a program like Ampere or using a USB meter device? Because your ROM may be giving you incorrect values and it can't be trusted.
There is no quick charge option in LineageOS but I can see that phone is using quick charge because charger increase voltage to 9V. I am trying to understand why it wouldn't go to 12V
yurtesen said:
@LivingLing did you test with a program like Ampere or using a USB meter device? Because your ROM may be giving you incorrect values and it can't be trusted.
There is no quick charge option in LineageOS but I can see that phone is using quick charge because charger increase voltage to 9V. I am trying to understand why it wouldn't go to 12V
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No i didnt used anything like that, just mentioned the values given by the Rom. But my phone charges Form 10% to 100% in like 15 minutes. So thats actually pretty fast in my opinion.
That sounds impossible, make a screenshot from the charging graph please. That would be something about 10A charging current...
I get about 4,5A when I activate QC on the EUI
@LivingLing Your phone must be broken if you can charge 0 to 100% in 15 minutes. You can't really charge a lithium battery very fast after about 80% and thats why quick charge implementations never talk about 0 to 100% charge time.
With lithium battery, most implementations set the input voltage to about 4.35V and battery charges as fast as it can pull power. This slows down when battery is near full.
I recommend you to get a USB meter, they cost few dollars anyway and quite cool devices.