I have seen many posts about the enigma of charging with USB vs OEM vs Generic chargers, all of various output mA ranges, so I became curious. I used an app called CurrentWidget to log the charge current from a system proc file called "batt_chg_current" located under /sys. The capture was set to poll every 60 seconds, of which I tested 5 types of charging devices for a full charge cycle* (100% 3-4hrs). Each charger used is listed below noting the output in mA.
Chart Review
The slope you see is the battery reaching 75% charge, my theory: this is when the device drops the mA draw so the battery can "float charge" (to prevent overcharging) until the battery reaches 100%.
You'll also notice the USB took longer to charge then the regular higher output devices.
You may notice the "Generic USB Car" charger, which we have all seen available online for the bargain price of $3-10. While it is tempting, I would caution anyone from using this hardware because my phone actually rebooted during the charge cycle, which is visible in the chart*. You may also notice the erratic charging pattern, this was visible with another 1A generic USB charger, so I feel the probability of the device being defective was slim and more likely cheap components.
Chargers:
AC - Samsung OEM [750mA]
AC - Blackberry OEM [750mA]
Car - Samsung OEM [750mA]
Car - Generic USB [1000mA]
USB Computer - OEM U9 Cable
Thanks for the awesome info. Glad I've avoided the cheap stuff.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using XDA App
To add some clarifications:
1) You're obviously using my kernel since CW actually gets data. However you didn't read my kernel's OP regarding the scale factor for CW data.
2) That generic "1A" car charger is probably similar to the Monoprice car chargers I have. These are the one time in my life I've been dissatisfied with a Monoprice product. The ones I have are probably good for 300-400 mA at best.
3) Actual charge current limit is 650 mA on AC. 400 mA on USB
4) The dropping charge current at the end of the cycle is normal. Once a Li-Ion charger hits 4.2 volts, it holds voltage there and current drops. Once current drops below a certain threshold, charging is terminated. Note that "erratic" charging in the CV phase isn't a charger problem, just that our device counts CPU/screen usage against the charge current limit. "Erratic" charging during the CC phase is bad though.
Entropy512 said:
To add some clarifications:
1) You're obviously using my kernel since CW actually gets data. However you didn't read my kernel's OP regarding the scale factor for CW data.
2) That generic "1A" car charger is probably similar to the Monoprice car chargers I have. These are the one time in my life I've been dissatisfied with a Monoprice product. The ones I have are probably good for 300-400 mA at best.
3) Actual charge current limit is 650 mA on AC. 400 mA on USB
4) The dropping charge current at the end of the cycle is normal. Once a Li-Ion charger hits 4.2 volts, it holds voltage there and current drops. Once current drops below a certain threshold, charging is terminated. Note that "erratic" charging in the CV phase isn't a charger problem, just that our device counts CPU/screen usage against the charge current limit. "Erratic" charging during the CC phase is bad though.
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1. Correct, isn't everybody? its a solid kernel. Yup you're right, I totally missed the CW section. I have updated the chart to reflect the 2.85.
2. Yes, agreed
3. After updating numbers, per #1, the data reflects your statement.
4. Well stated.
Related
Alright, so I have a mini USB car charger that is rated at 2.0A (got with GPS) and I just want to make sure the extra amperage is not going to charge my battery too quickly and then kill it in the process. All I have to go on is that my wall charger is capable of only 1.0A and the computer USB is on the level of mA. Does anybody have a car charger or know the maximum amperage possible that these phones can take?
Thanks in advance.
Its to Strong ! I have Crash a PDA with 1.5A
I've used a 2.0a charger but noticed that the battery didn't charge right.
On that note, also noticed that a .5a or 500mA charger after about 6 months killed my battery. (burned out and won't take a full charge anymore)
Recommendation is to stick to 1.0A charging as much as possible as the Wizard's charge circuit is designed at 1.0A charging and monitoring.
DOESN'T MATTER ..if u know the basic Ohms Law..its the max capacity of the charger.(or any source) the current regulating circuits will take care of the real charging current fed to the battery
I charge my phone on my computers USB connection all the time, all computers have a maximum of 500mA USB current.
Amps are pulled from the charger, not pushed to the phone.
Voltages are pushed to the phone, not pulled from the charger.
If the phone draws too much current from the charger, the voltage drops to a point where the maximum power (P (Watt) = U (Voltage) * I (Amps)) of the charger isn't exceeded.
According to the USB specification you need at least 200mA with 500mA recommended +5VDC.
More is never a problem, you could even use a 50A power supply without breaking your phone. Practically spoken: I wouldn't do that.
huh?
I have messed up a few devices before by putting the wrong charger on the device (2.0 amp charger on a droid eris and 1amp charger on the MOTOACTV) Is this a problem with the device's charging circuit? In general it should only pull up what it needs to charge but my devices were messed up?
I returned the first MOTOACTV after it wouldn't leave the boot screen and the second one I got acted funny on 1 amps as well. It charged fine on .75amp charger that came with the device but when I put it on my HTC Dinc charger it shot up from 10% to 20 to 30 etc. all within minutes. Hope I didn't mess this one up too.
Just trying to figure out what the deal is. My phone for sure charges faster when connected to 1amp vs .5amp (computer). This makes sense I understand because the device is able to handle 1amp, but I wonder if it would mess up with a 2amp charger.
Thanks!
The last two posts of 2008 are correct. Your phone is capable of drawing more than 500 mA but less than 1000 mA. If the charger is 1A, 1.5A, 2A, or 50A, it won't make a difference to the phone's charging time or life.
Wrong voltage can be bad, but phones are designed to support USB charging, as a minimum, and 1A to 2A is always safe. As was said in 2008, the charger pushes voltage to the battery, but the battery pulls current from the charger.
That's a really good way of describing it
Pushing and pulling current and voltage is a really good way of describing it.. Given that I am theoretically well within the charging parameters, how comes my phone (Galaxy mini/pop) becomes unusable when its charging (touch screen doesnt touch and screen jumps to new screen without touching?) Am I wrecking my phone?
No, your charger is to blame. Maybe it isn't properly grounded. Phones with capacitive touch screens (not the Wizard! but maybe your phone) can get really weird on some chargers. I have a Nexus One with an aftermarket charger that always makes the touch screen go haywire. When I use an HTC charger, the phone has no problem. As far as I know, the damage isn't permanent, it's just that the sensors get confused. When I disconnect from the charger, turn the phone off, then turn it on, all is well.
My wizards were never bothered by chargers, no matter what kind, as long as they were mini-USB, they were the right voltage. The wizard doesn't take as much current as more modern phones, either.
Hmm. Not properly grounded sounds very plausible. Viva mediterranean circuits. Thanks
Usb chargers will be rated at 5v, which is exactly the correct voltage to charge your device. What you want to make sure is you buy the correct "rated" amperage. Not because it will damage your phone. Amperage only exists as a sum of the power used by the device. You want to find a decent 1amp (1000mA) or higher if you wish, rated usb charger. The the mains charger for your phone is only rated at 1amp, so a 1amp charger is adequate. Avoid 500ma chargers as it will take twice as long to charge and gps / satnav applications will drain the battery even when charging at that rate.
Also if you have a new pc, most of the decent boards will specify 1amp charge even when off if it has on/off charge stated on manufacture details.
Newer phones will charge fine with higher amperage
The myth that charging your device at a faster rate will reduce the life of your device’s battery is false!
If you want quicker charging, look for a wall or car charger that delivers 2100 mA of current at 5 volts higher won't matter.... These lithium ion batteries can handle it... It was just back then if you were to try to put a faster charger in an older battery it (in any cases) just won't charge.
Any third party extended battery options for the S7? I prefer the slim version if possible.
Sent from my SGH-T849 using XDA App
I rigged up a battery pack using 4 rechargeable Energizer AAA's and just plug it into the DC power socket and double-sided taped it to the back of the unit
I imagine I could use some left over spare Li-Ion batteries from other phones though.
UPDATE: someone asked how
STEP 1: Buy something similar to this http://www.littlebirdelectronics.com/products/4%2dAAA-Battery-Holder.html
STEP 2: Buy a male plug that fits the female power socket on the S7 Like this but the correct size http://www.littlebirdelectronics.com/products/1.3MM-PLUG%2d2.5MM-SOCKET-DC-ADAPTOR.html
STEP 3: Solder them together so that the + and - charge come out of the same wires as the wall-charger
STEP 4: Plug in batteries
If this looks/sounds difficult, don't even attempt it, you WILL break your tablet.
Since the original battery do last too long, i found this 2 option that i think that work with S7:
Good price and free shipping
lol i cant post links yet, sorry guys...
here goes the links for the battery extender....
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.4284~r.14121877
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.48449~r.14121877
Nice guys! I was searching for an internal battery solution.
These battery packs look nice but be carefull, the output is only 500 mA. The S7 charger is a 2amp output charger. I'm not sure how well it will run on a lower input.
Ives
mowermech said:
These battery packs look nice but be carefull, the output is only 500 mA. The S7 charger is a 2amp output charger. I'm not sure how well it will run on a lower input.
Ives
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The DC pack will only feed what the unit draws, and I doubt very much that it draws the entire 2000mA.
I have rigged up a USB charging cable for myself, USB pumps out 5v at 500mA max per port (I'm only using 1) and it charges a little slower than from the wall, depending on which computer I'm charging from, but apart from that it works great still and I can use the same cable to charge from other USB-charging devices like the one I have in my car.
The 500mA output will just mean it charges slower, and seeing how it's only a battery extender (IE, the oem battery is still required) and not a charging solution (the S7 can run without the battery off only the charge from the wall), the charge provided will be fine for extending the battery life.
davidcampbell said:
The DC pack will only feed what the unit draws, and I doubt very much that it draws the entire 2000mA.
I have rigged up a USB charging cable for myself, USB pumps out 5v at 500mA max per port (I'm only using 1) and it charges a little slower than from the wall, depending on which computer I'm charging from, but apart from that it works great still and I can use the same cable to charge from other USB-charging devices like the one I have in my car.
The 500mA output will just mean it charges slower, and seeing how it's only a battery extender (IE, the oem battery is still required) and not a charging solution (the S7 can run without the battery off only the charge from the wall), the charge provided will be fine for extending the battery life.
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500mAh as supplied by standard USB will charge but as you say only slowly.
It will not start a charge if the battery has been allowed to drop too low. That's common with all Lion batteries and is why you get a high current wall charger to do the job.
If you are using the device at the same time (and depending on the functions in use and the state of charge of the battery) you will definately struggle with any positive charge and will experience heat build up in the USB port, cable and device so be carefull!
If you are also using the device as a phone and get a call there will be an extra high peak current draw that has to be contended with and that complicates things further.
With all the tests that I have done allong these lines 1000mAh is a bare minimum to cope with eventualities and even then it's borderline.
I have blown car adapter fuses and had low current phone chargers get really hot.
I now only use 2000mAH rated chargers.
Are there any? I would really want to have a battery that could last at least 6 hrs... Any suggestions?
Stjom said:
Are there any? I would really want to have a battery that could last at least 6 hrs... Any suggestions?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Energizer XPAL XP18000
That will give you about an extra 12-18 hours,
But no internal battery larger than standard. Why would you want one when the external packs are usable with any device and don't become redundant when you upgrade to a different model?
I made such a battery of two packages of Chinese Tablet battery voltage of 7.4V LiJon / 1500mAh connected in series and used a converter on the circuit LM2576 (with car charger navigation) [//chomikuj.pl/wibi) -> Huawei Ideos S7/Dodatkowa bateria]. This additional charger to recharge your battery voltage 8.4V. Pictures and diagrams from the following link will explain everything.
The stock charger from Samsung was for 0.7Amps and it charges ok, but I find it slow.. about ~4 hours to fully change my SGS2 from with less than 10% left of battery life.
If I plug into the laptop, it takes like ~6 hours due to the slow trickle charge with 0.5Amps.
I don't know what the max pull is allowed on this phone, but I did find that when I charge with a 1Amps charger, I can get it from less than 10% to full in about ~3hours.
So, I tried a few such charges and have noticed some strangeness.. (all with the same test conditions, start charging with less than 10% and with the stock usb cable for the phone)
1) older Belink ac-usb 1Amps out put, it does seem to charge the phone good and faster finishing around ~3 hours ... but, when charging, the touch sensitivity of the screen is out of whack, any subtle movement, will cause the screen to jump around.. like in gallery, trying to select an individual pic is difficult as the screen jumps around; forget about using the browser and selecting links...not sure why..
2) HTC thunderbolt charger 1Amps output (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003WM6SOU).. same issue here, charges faster, but makes the screen jump around
3) iPhone charger 1Amps output; this seems to work the best for me so far.. charges faster ~3hours and while charging the screen behaves normally, I am able to use gallery and browser fine...
4) iPad 2 charger 5.1 V and 2.1Amps: Still charges the phone ~3 hours, but same side effect...
Anyone else have the screen sensitivity issue and what chargers are you using?
I haven't seen any issue when I used a HP TouchPad Charger rated at 2.0A I think..
Max pull is 650 mA - this is set by the charger chip itself.
If the phone thinks you have a normal USB connection to PC instead of a dumb charger, it will be 400 mA.
Having a charger rated more than this won't hurt, but it won't help.
Monoprice "1A" car chargers are rated 300-400 mA at best - the ONLY monoprice product I've ever been unhappy with in my life.
In general, you want to make sure USB D+ and D- are shorted together by the charger - this guarantees that the phone sees the charger as "dumb" and goes to 650. Exception are media and car docks - whatever you connect to these will be assumed by the phone to be a high current "dumb charger".
All phone power usage (CPU, screen, etc.) counts against this current budget - e.g. if you have 200 mA of load, only 450 will be going into the battery.
Unlike the I9100, we don't appear to have any way to change these charging currents. Our phone, for whatever reason, has an additional chip for charge control (MAX8922) instead of using the charge control built into the main power management chip (MAX8997). This is disappointing, I was really hoping to bring over the "charginghacks" modifications from my Infuse kernel series.
So with the Current Widget installed I can monitor the incoming charge rates vs different usb chargers. Here is what i have found:
USB on samsung 1A charger: 10050mah
USB on computer: 4950mah
Shorted data pins usb cable on computer: 9550mah
MHL cable 2950mah max via any type of cable/charger.
This enevitably will drain the battery from 100% to below 10% within a few hours even plugged in. No marathon sessions of any type or even a casual flick if you start out below 50% remaining to begin with.
There must be a software override to force the current governor in the phone to allow the full amp in the charger be used in cases of MHL. Has this already been done? Anyone have a solution?
I dont think the current widget is accurate.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using XDA
accuracy
The Current Widget states support for the galaxy note, but only shows the current flow while charging (ie it will not report current drain rate) My testing and subsequent numbers are proved accurate by the charge rate over time vs displayed current rate vs battery state. So I believe in this case the numbers reported by Current Widget are quite accurate.
[email protected] said:
USB on samsung 1A charger: 10050mah
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That would be 10 amps - the battery would charge in no time
The rates are from a dump of a register on the phone and are ten times the ma being used/charged.
accuracy
This makes alot of sense, thank you. In this case the results are still valid as long as we divide the result by 10 at the end of the formula. The recharge rate with MHL is limited to 300ma, which inevitably leads to battery drain. There must be a software switch to override the maximum charge rate.
Charge cable
Use a cord meant for charging or a very short cord. The wire used in a normal usb micro cable is a very fine gage and gives enough voltage drop to severely limit the current. This is even with the high power charger or the shorted data lines
cord length
Thanks for the advice, but I have already tested multiple cables, down to just 2 feet. Voltage drop is negliable in any cable i have tested with. It is obviously a software limiter of some type. With MHL cable plugged in but not active, regardless of the source power, charge rate is limited to 300ma. Test it for yourself!
Read this thread, it's very informative.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1519084
I have a Samsung MHL adapter and when I used it last night, the battery status showed "AC" but it only was drawing 460 ma according to the charging register (which the current widgit uses). With the same wall charger and cord plugged directly into my phone, the charging register starts out at 1007 ma and drops to the high 900's.
Hey guys,,,,
Wanna ask something here...
I have an idea to buy a power bank/portable charger, instead of buy a spare battery.
But there are alot of choice, start from 2000mah-10000mah capacities, offerring 2-6 USB port.
Each product offered different USB port voltage and ampere.
For the example, each USB port supplying 5.3V / 5.0V and 1A / 2A / 0.8A....
Do you know which one match/compatible with our phone?
From what i remember from my physics class the should all be compatible. Cellphone battery is 4.3V, so it needs a power higher than that to be re-charged, a pc usb port usuall supplies power at 5V, whilst the A is the amount of energy let through, so the difference in A value impacts the speed at which the portable device recharges the phone battery. The same voltage carrying 1Ah reachrges the batter in half the time needed by one carrying it a 0.5A. Furthermore cell batteries have an internal chip which regulates the tension transmitted. The mAh is the total capacity of the recharging device (or toal amount of A it can store and supply over one h unit of time)
I think the the amperage of charger shouldn't be more 1.0 A. More amperage will charge the battery quickly, but will short his life.
so, I should go for 5V and something under 1.0A?
a product that nearly match those config was sanyo eneloop.
provided 2 USB port 5V and 0.5A or 2x for 1.0A.
physcodelic said:
so, I should go for 5V and something under 1.0A?
a product that nearly match those config was sanyo eneloop.
provided 2 USB port 5V and 0.5A or 2x for 1.0A.
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Click to collapse
At spec of Sanyo Eneloop i see when you use only one of USB port and charge one device you will have charging output of 5V and 1A. When you use both ports you will have charging output of 5V and 0.5A (500mA).
tanec said:
At spec of Sanyo Eneloop i see when you use only one of USB port and charge one device you will have charging output of 5V and 1A. When you use both ports you will have charging output of 5V and 0.5A (500mA).
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I see....
Thanks for the explanation...
Maybe I should go for Sanyo, cause the other products was made by some unknown/unfamiliar brand from chinese.
Better to choose a wellknown brand right?
That's because as i explained before Amperes is the amount of energy that passes through a conductor, if a device has max output of 1A if you use two ports it will obviously split down the tension output. Amperes have nothing to do with battery life, it's not gonna do anything if you charge them faster, what matters is tension (V) which is maintained constant by the chip within the battery itself which gives the battery the 4.25V constant it needs controlled also by the cellphones internal regulatory hw. Poli-ion batteries use an impulse charge system, it's not continuative, that's why constant regular tension is important, aamof recharging the cellphone from car charger does affect negatively battery life. Poli-ion batteries if left unused have a very slow discharge rate, 1% a month, nonetheless life is shortened by about 25% after 100 full cycles and another 25% after 3-4 years of life, and they have no memory effect, so it is always best not to let the battery discharge completely ...Go for better known brand, not for the quality of the product per say but for more guarantees on support and warranty claims
Rudjgaard said:
That's because as i explained before Amperes is the amount of energy that passes through a conductor, if a device has max output of 1A if you use two ports it will obviously split down the tension output. Amperes have nothing to do with battery life, it's not gonna do anything if you charge them faster, what matters is tension (V) which is maintained constant by the chip within the battery itself which gives the battery the 4.25V constant it needs controlled also by the cellphones internal regulatory hw. Poli-ion batteries use an impulse charge system, it's not continuative, that's why constant regular tension is important, aamof recharging the cellphone from car charger does affect negatively battery life. Poli-ion batteries if left unused have a very slow discharge rate, 1% a month, nonetheless life is shortened by about 25% after 100 full cycles and another 25% after 3-4 years of life, and they have no memory effect, so it is always best not to let the battery discharge completely ...Go for better known brand, not for the quality of the product per say but for more guarantees on support and warranty claims
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I'am sorry if I can't understand your explanation fully...
So you mean higher Ampere output than original charger was safe, Am I right?
I bought already sanyo power bank, seems like a nice quality.
Charging time almost same like it was charged on PC USB port.
Thank for your complete explanation
tho I cant understand that completely (stupid me)
physcodelic said:
I see....
Thanks for the explanation...
Maybe I should go for Sanyo, cause the other products was made by some unknown/unfamiliar brand from chinese.
Better to choose a wellknown brand right?
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That is the best way. I was trying one solar charger, with included LiPo battery with 2600 mAh. The charger was with dimensions of an iphone and can charge included battery from sun and from regular USB charger. His price was something around 6-7 pounds. This kind - Portable-iphone-2600MAh-USB-Solar-Panel-Battery-Charger-for-Mobile-Phone-MP3-MP4 (search in ebay, because i'm a new user and can post links ). Included battery can keep charge for 1 full and one 70% charge of mi Xperia Mini Pro with standart 1160mAh battery. Hope this can help you. The advantages of sanyo charger is that, you can use regular AA battery that you can buy it from every where.
P.S. Sorry for my english. Hope you can understand me
your english was understandable bro
ahhh...a solar charger...will keep this in my mind.
traveling too much with smartphone will be easy with a solar charger