So with the Current Widget installed I can monitor the incoming charge rates vs different usb chargers. Here is what i have found:
USB on samsung 1A charger: 10050mah
USB on computer: 4950mah
Shorted data pins usb cable on computer: 9550mah
MHL cable 2950mah max via any type of cable/charger.
This enevitably will drain the battery from 100% to below 10% within a few hours even plugged in. No marathon sessions of any type or even a casual flick if you start out below 50% remaining to begin with.
There must be a software override to force the current governor in the phone to allow the full amp in the charger be used in cases of MHL. Has this already been done? Anyone have a solution?
I dont think the current widget is accurate.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using XDA
accuracy
The Current Widget states support for the galaxy note, but only shows the current flow while charging (ie it will not report current drain rate) My testing and subsequent numbers are proved accurate by the charge rate over time vs displayed current rate vs battery state. So I believe in this case the numbers reported by Current Widget are quite accurate.
[email protected] said:
USB on samsung 1A charger: 10050mah
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That would be 10 amps - the battery would charge in no time
The rates are from a dump of a register on the phone and are ten times the ma being used/charged.
accuracy
This makes alot of sense, thank you. In this case the results are still valid as long as we divide the result by 10 at the end of the formula. The recharge rate with MHL is limited to 300ma, which inevitably leads to battery drain. There must be a software switch to override the maximum charge rate.
Charge cable
Use a cord meant for charging or a very short cord. The wire used in a normal usb micro cable is a very fine gage and gives enough voltage drop to severely limit the current. This is even with the high power charger or the shorted data lines
cord length
Thanks for the advice, but I have already tested multiple cables, down to just 2 feet. Voltage drop is negliable in any cable i have tested with. It is obviously a software limiter of some type. With MHL cable plugged in but not active, regardless of the source power, charge rate is limited to 300ma. Test it for yourself!
Read this thread, it's very informative.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1519084
I have a Samsung MHL adapter and when I used it last night, the battery status showed "AC" but it only was drawing 460 ma according to the charging register (which the current widgit uses). With the same wall charger and cord plugged directly into my phone, the charging register starts out at 1007 ma and drops to the high 900's.
Related
I have seen many posts about the enigma of charging with USB vs OEM vs Generic chargers, all of various output mA ranges, so I became curious. I used an app called CurrentWidget to log the charge current from a system proc file called "batt_chg_current" located under /sys. The capture was set to poll every 60 seconds, of which I tested 5 types of charging devices for a full charge cycle* (100% 3-4hrs). Each charger used is listed below noting the output in mA.
Chart Review
The slope you see is the battery reaching 75% charge, my theory: this is when the device drops the mA draw so the battery can "float charge" (to prevent overcharging) until the battery reaches 100%.
You'll also notice the USB took longer to charge then the regular higher output devices.
You may notice the "Generic USB Car" charger, which we have all seen available online for the bargain price of $3-10. While it is tempting, I would caution anyone from using this hardware because my phone actually rebooted during the charge cycle, which is visible in the chart*. You may also notice the erratic charging pattern, this was visible with another 1A generic USB charger, so I feel the probability of the device being defective was slim and more likely cheap components.
Chargers:
AC - Samsung OEM [750mA]
AC - Blackberry OEM [750mA]
Car - Samsung OEM [750mA]
Car - Generic USB [1000mA]
USB Computer - OEM U9 Cable
Thanks for the awesome info. Glad I've avoided the cheap stuff.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using XDA App
To add some clarifications:
1) You're obviously using my kernel since CW actually gets data. However you didn't read my kernel's OP regarding the scale factor for CW data.
2) That generic "1A" car charger is probably similar to the Monoprice car chargers I have. These are the one time in my life I've been dissatisfied with a Monoprice product. The ones I have are probably good for 300-400 mA at best.
3) Actual charge current limit is 650 mA on AC. 400 mA on USB
4) The dropping charge current at the end of the cycle is normal. Once a Li-Ion charger hits 4.2 volts, it holds voltage there and current drops. Once current drops below a certain threshold, charging is terminated. Note that "erratic" charging in the CV phase isn't a charger problem, just that our device counts CPU/screen usage against the charge current limit. "Erratic" charging during the CC phase is bad though.
Entropy512 said:
To add some clarifications:
1) You're obviously using my kernel since CW actually gets data. However you didn't read my kernel's OP regarding the scale factor for CW data.
2) That generic "1A" car charger is probably similar to the Monoprice car chargers I have. These are the one time in my life I've been dissatisfied with a Monoprice product. The ones I have are probably good for 300-400 mA at best.
3) Actual charge current limit is 650 mA on AC. 400 mA on USB
4) The dropping charge current at the end of the cycle is normal. Once a Li-Ion charger hits 4.2 volts, it holds voltage there and current drops. Once current drops below a certain threshold, charging is terminated. Note that "erratic" charging in the CV phase isn't a charger problem, just that our device counts CPU/screen usage against the charge current limit. "Erratic" charging during the CC phase is bad though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1. Correct, isn't everybody? its a solid kernel. Yup you're right, I totally missed the CW section. I have updated the chart to reflect the 2.85.
2. Yes, agreed
3. After updating numbers, per #1, the data reflects your statement.
4. Well stated.
I found out today, that if I am booted in Android, the Touchstone WILL charge my Touchpad via my MacBook Pro USB port. The tablet will show the "Home" screen in its "night stand" mode, and I will get a full charge after some time.
If the Touchpad is booted into WebOS, it won't charge when attached to my MacBook Pro USB port, as expected (it's indicated in the product's brochure).
Really odd!
its simple really.
you're a wizard.
WebOS has fail safes in place where it has to be receiving full power to charge the battery to prevent damage to it. Android does not have this. My TP shows charging anytime I connect it in android to transfers files.
HazzaBlake said:
its simple really.
you're a wizard.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Of Oz?
monkay01 said:
WebOS has fail safes in place where it has to be receiving full power to charge the battery to prevent damage to it. Android does not have this. My TP shows charging anytime I connect it in android to transfers files.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's more like it, thanks!
monkay01 said:
WebOS has fail safes in place where it has to be receiving full power to charge the battery to prevent damage to it. Android does not have this. My TP shows charging anytime I connect it in android to transfers files.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The TP will charge from any USB source as long as it is receiving the correct switch signal (actually a voltage) on its data lines.
Currently (pun intended!) only the HP AC barrel charger has the correct switching properties "of the shelf".
There are mods to enable the use of other chargers.
It is this switching signal that allows the TP to charge at full rate (nominally 2Ah). Without it all other chargers operate at much slower and lower charge rates.
It has nothing to do with which OS is in use.
The major difference is the speed of charge and this is governed by the charger (be it AC or car charger) and its rated charging current. If it is too low and the device is in use then the battery will discharge quicker than it can be charged which kind of defeats the object of charging!
The touchstone is more interesting as it can be plugged in to any USB port and operate within the tolerances of its specification and provide an element of inductive charge based on the output of the USB port being used. But once again low current means slow charge.
pa49 said:
The TP will charge from any USB source as long as it is receiving the correct switch signal (actually a voltage) on its data lines.
Currently (pun intended!) only the HP AC barrel charger has the correct switching properties "of the shelf".
There are mods to enable the use of other chargers.
It is this switching signal that allows the TP to charge at full rate (nominally 2Ah). Without it all other chargers operate at much slower and lower charge rates.
It has nothing to do with which OS is in use.
The major difference is the speed of charge and this is governed by the charger (be it AC or car charger) and its rated charging current. If it is too low and the device is in use then the battery will discharge quicker than it can be charged which kind of defeats the object of charging!
The touchstone is more interesting as it can be plugged in to any USB port and operate within the tolerances of its specification and provide an element of inductive charge based on the output of the USB port being used. But once again low current means slow charge.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
funny enough it will show you that its charging but most likely its not pulling any power. If you do in terminal cat /sys/power/charger/currentlimit it should show you how much power its actually pulling, and since induction is actually pulling about a 1/4 less power (lost during the induction process) your actually pulling 125mah less aka 375 mah which at that point is useless
Using a New Trent External charger I noticed that the phone was still losing power, just at a way slower rate than without it charging. Phone showed charging. I was using netflix via 3g at the time. Would this be expected? Not super worried as the battery charges just fine when screen is off and not in use.
How many amp output is that charger??
My phone can't keep up with the charge if I'm veiwing a movie using HDMI unless I run incredible kernel with fastcharge enabled.
7000mAh. Think 1V output?
IIRC, the stock A/C charger is 1 amp.
A lot of aftermarket chargers do not have the balls to charge the Rezound.
you may need to modify a usb cable to short the Data wires to get the full charging potential out of it.
or try one of these cables from amazon:
http://www.amazon.com/Naztech-Micro...3?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1328727460&sr=1-3
thatsricci said:
you may need to modify a usb cable to short the Data wires to get the full charging potential out of it.
or try one of these cables from amazon:
http://www.amazon.com/Naztech-Micro...3?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1328727460&sr=1-3
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Does this cable work for sure with the rezound??
I don't need it right now with the incredicontrol running, but I ordered it just as a handy thing to have.
My new Trent works pretty well, but I wouldn't expect it to keep up with streaming vids. I found that it gives a charge to the idle phone at about 800mA, which is about the same as the stock wall charger.
Pick up battery monitor widget and you can track your plus and minus usage pretty well to decide if everything seems OK.
jmorton10 said:
Does this cable work for sure with the rezound??
I don't need it right now with the incredicontrol running, but I ordered it just as a handy thing to have.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, I'll answer my own question. The cable definitely DOES NOT force higher charging at least when using an HDMI adaptor.
If I use Incredikernel with fast charging enabled with Incredicontrol, it will actually GAIN charge while playing a full length movie through HDMI.
This morning, I flashed back to dsb 1.3 with no frills cpu control & hooked up the new cable for charging. I started with a 100% charged battery & after playing a 1 hour DVD RIP from my card, it was down to 89% charged. Using Incredicontrol, during the exact same test the battery still read 100% at the end.
Thanks for your results jmorton10. Good to know. I wonder if it's the connections inside the HDMI adapter messing with it.
Not sure why HTC can't just get this right to always pull the max possible from whatever it's hooked into!
-j
My understanding is because the MHL adapter needs the USB data pins to work properly and they can't be shorted out as mentioned above, the phone thinks it's on a USB connection and limits it's current draw to 500mA.
mjones73 said:
the phone thinks it's on a USB connection and limits it's current draw to 500mA.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is definitely the problem, the battery monitor widget claims it is charging from USB even though it is plugged directly into an A/C charger.
I guess I will be flashing back to Incredikernel/Incredicontrol tonight. I do like dsb kernel slightly better as it never freezes/bootloops etc. ever on that kernel. It does stop responding occasionally on IC (requiring a battery pull) although it doesn't happen very often.
The Rezound complies with the USB charging specification. If your power source isn't compliant, it won't draw more that 500 mA (and probably less if USB doesn't enumerate, but I haven't checked). That's what the "short the USB data pins" thing is all about. Earlier USB charging spec said they should be shorted, the latest says 200 ohms. Any "USB charger" which doesn't do that isn't compliant, and shouldn't be sold as USB-anything, because it doesn't follow the USB spec. Return it to where you got it, and complain (loudly).
Regardless of how much power a charger can deliver, even if it meets spec you won't see more than about 800 mA go into the battery. There's a limit to how much current both the connector and the battery can safely handle, and the phone takes that into consideration.
Remember, the mA reported by utilities is (always?) what's going in/out of the battery. The charger would be delivering more than that (e.g. 800 mA into the battery, plus 400 mA to power a phone doing video streaming, etc.). AIR, the micro USB connector is limited to ~1500 mA, and I've never seen a battery charge at much more than 800, as reported by the kernel. Conversely, when charging from a non-USB charging spec compliant port, the phone won't draw more than ~500 mA from the port, and the battery only gets what's left after subtracting what's needed to run the phone.
Another thing which can affect charging is the cable. If you have a long USB cable using 28 gauge wire, there will be a significant voltage drop across it. USB specs say the voltage should be between 4.75 and 5.25 V, and Android seems to limit the charging current so the incoming voltage stays above 4.75V. Using 24 gauge USB cables, especially with longer lengths, can increase the charging current. Most vendors don't tell you the wire gauge used in their cables, but Monoprice does (no relation, etc.).
my SGSII takes about 3 hours to fully charge. in japan, we had charging stations, where youd place a battery in a machine, and itd charge it from 10% - 70% in about 8 minutes,. and to 90% in about 15. this was because the machines used a higher current.
ive noticed the stock usb charger that comes with the S2 is a lower voltage of those compared to HTC, or say one youd buy at radio shack. yet even with a higher voltage charger, the phone still charges at the same rate. this is because the kernel controls input levels. the input levels are set to slowly take in a current, there are many reason youd want to have a slower charge.
one is to reduce salt bridge deterioration, which is ware on the battery. while this may be an issue for some who plan on keeping their phone battery for years, without upgrading their phone, or battery, for most of us a year of ware wont make a difference.
a second issue is heat, a faster charging battery generally charges warmer than a slower charging battery. however the phone will still not get as hot as a phone sitting in the sun, or playing a high graphics intensive game.
i would like to adjust the kernel to allow higher frequencies, how much of a higher frequency? well that would require bench testing. but a higher frequency indeed
has anyone played with these settings in the kernel, or done any benchtesting on the matter? id be very interested to hear your findings.
It's not possible.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1468834
This has been asked more times than I've been able to keep count on here over the past month :-/ Answer doesn't change (unless you want to blow **** up).
so then the only way is to use an external battery charger?
because i know for a fact, an external battery charger can charge a battery very fast, ive experienced this first hand
on that link you posted, it said that the sgs2 charging limit is 650mA, but the USB charge is set lower.. has anyone raised the USB charge to 650mA? this would at least help my phone charge faster in the car, or while plugged into my laptop
soraxd said:
so then the only way is to use an external battery charger?
because i know for a fact, an external battery charger can charge a battery very fast, ive experienced this first hand
on that link you posted, it said that the sgs2 charging limit is 650mA, but the USB charge is set lower.. has anyone raised the USB charge to 650mA? this would at least help my phone charge faster in the car, or while plugged into my laptop
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The USB charge is not set to low, the current given by that of a computer USB port is less than 650mA (500mA if i remember correctly) and also depending on the car charger the output (might) be less than 650mA. I use the same computer USB cable with an external USB charger and i notice 2 things:
1- Since the phone pulls the required current from where ever the USB is plugged in, if it has capability of providing 650mA the phone will take 650mA. And with the external USB Charger (iSound Portable Charger) i can charge the phone in 3 hours.
2- Secondly while plugged in the iSound it shows charging "AC plugged in" this is because it can provide 650mA (which is the same as the wall outlet adapter)
Actually from what I know, and correct me if I'm wrong, even using the charger that comes with the sgs2 isn't the healthiest choice for your battery because the voltage is high to cut down on charging time. The best should be by connecting to your pc
I think it is the amps of the charger what makes a difference in charging speed
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using XDA
Jetmantrunks said:
Actually from what I know, and correct me if I'm wrong, even using the charger that comes with the sgs2 isn't the healthiest choice for your battery because the voltage is high to cut down on charging time. The best should be by connecting to your pc
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Mistakenly pressed the thanks button, instead of the quote lol
Anyhow see if the phone is plugged in to the device that can provide as much current from 0.1A to 2.2A (from simple devices to Iphone <- they require 2.2A) the phone automatically draws the amount of current it is made to draw which is SGS2 is 650mA which is coincidentally the same as the wall outlet adapter.
I might be wrong, so correct me if i am.
I as thinking of lower the 650Ma AC rate to 450Ma or less, to allow the phone to slowly charge up overnight, with the aim of finding a rate that acheives a 5-6 hour charge time from empty.
Any thoughts? I was just thinking it should cause less heat and perhaps extend is life accordingly?
Just curious if there is an app or something similar that would show how many amps are being provided when charging through a wall charger/USB powered hub? The reason I ask is that I'm thinking of buying a powered USB 3.0 Hub. The adapter that came with our phone says it's 2 Amp, so I am assuming our phone can pull 2 amps for charging. Just wanted to verify in some way that a 2 Amp dedicated port would really work for this phone.
*Madmoose* said:
Just curious if there is an app or something similar that would show how many amps are being provided when charging through a wall charger/USB powered hub? The reason I ask is that I'm thinking of buying a powered USB 3.0 Hub. The adapter that came with our phone says it's 2 Amp, so I am assuming our phone can pull 2 amps for charging. Just wanted to verify in some way that a 2 Amp dedicated port would really work for this phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
When I get home, I'll download the kernel source and see if I can find out how much power it draws during charging. I doubt however, that it will draw 2A during charging as most chargers are rated to supply more power than the phone will accept.
Yeah, 2A seems like that could melt a battery charging that fast. Someone sent me a private message and told me to try CurrentWidget. I threw that on the phone and it registers as 1A while charging. But it appears like the widget doesn't break it down with decimals. For instance it could be charging with 1.8A and wouldn't know it. I put it in a standard USB port and it reported as charging with 0 Amps but the battery was indeed charging.
I took a quick look at the N7100 (International Note 2) source posted on Github by CM and it looks like AC charger is 650mA, USB is 450mA. It's a little hard to tell what exactly it's using for charging, so I'll try to verify that when I get home and have a chance to take a better look.
*Madmoose* said:
Yeah, 2A seems like that could melt a battery charging that fast. Someone sent me a private message and told me to try CurrentWidget. I threw that on the phone and it registers as 1A while charging. But it appears like the widget doesn't break it down with decimals. For instance it could be charging with 1.8A and wouldn't know it. I put it in a standard USB port and it reported as charging with 0 Amps but the battery was indeed charging.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A 3100mAh Lithium Ion battery can easily handle a full 2A charge rate. The ideal charge profile for Lithium Ion is a CC/CV profile, starts at constant current between like 3V and 4V, which most LI batters can take a rate of 1C, meaning it can handle a charge rate of 3.1A, recommended charge rate to achieve the most possible charge/discharge cycles is usually 0.2C so for a 3100mAh battery that would be 620mA. Once the charge gets to the correct voltage it gets to constant voltage and charges until termination current usually in the 100mA range. So yes, it can handle a 2A charge no problem.
Hey there. I very much appreciate that breakdown. Makes me wonder why they dropped the amps so much during charge.
bose301s said:
recommended charge rate to achieve the most possible charge/discharge cycles is usually 0.2C so for a 3100mAh battery that would be 620mA.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If this is true (first time I've seen this anywhere), that would line up great with the 650mA max charge rate I found. Also, I downloaded the VZW source, and it doesn't look to significantly different from the N7100 source, at least as far as the charger stuff is concerned, so I would say they both probably have a max charge rate of 650mA.
I appreciate the info and time you both put into this. I guess it means a 2A usb port will be slight overkill. Even changing the charge rate to a higher value seems to indicate a lower battery life. Makes you wonder how apple did it's math for the ipads charge rate. The battery must be huge to accommodate a 1.1A charge rate. Or they are sacrificing battery life for fast charging.
Wont the kernel dictate the charge rate no matter what the charger is rated at?
If the kernel is set for a charge rate of 650mA (0.650A), then why does the Note 2 have a more powerful 2A wall charger, while the GS3 has a 1A wall charger.
FAUguy said:
If the kernel is set for a charge rate of 650mA (0.650A), then why does the Note 2 have a more powerful 2A wall charger, while the GS3 has a 1A wall charger.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The original nook color 7" came with a 2A wall charger and that was 2 years ago... both my note 2 and nook color charge about the same rate (quick to 99% and slow to 100). The charger is probably cheaper to make at 2A rather than anything and plus it could be used to charge future devices. Also if you used a 1A charger to charge the note it might possibly get warm/hot from running at near full capacity.
Im using my OLD blackberry 700mA wall charger to charge the phone at night while im sleeping. No problems with heat.