Related
I was wondering how many of you might be put off by the fact that the Flyer is shipping with Gingerbread and not Honeycomb - even though it will get Honeycomb later.
Appreciate the feedback.
I love the idea of the scribe technology, but considering how small it is and battery life....plus it is not shipping with Honeycomb and the price is going to be higher than comparable devices....
It's sad as I have owned only HTC phones. I love their quality.
The scribe technology I LOVE! I can see so many added benefits of this - especially in syncing with Evernote. I also see a benefit with those having children.
marygladys said:
I love the idea of the scribe technology,
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There were some internal docs from either bestbuy or costco that were reporting a 10.1" screen edition as well later in the summer.
I'd pay top dollar for Scribe + 10.1". There is a serious dearth of handwriting systems for android. Now if we could just get an OCR input system (e.g. Graffiti for the old Palm PDAs). I've seen a demo of scribe, and it doesn't look like it does input analog>digital, maybe I'm missing something. Still better than nothing.
There was also one more interesting quip about Android 3.0 in Eldar’s article. According to him, if a hardware partner releases the tablet on Android 2.x version of OS, as per licensing agreement for Android 3.0, they are not allowed to update Android 2.x tablets to 3.0 version.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
so if the news(rumors) are true, htc flyer won't be getting any honeycomb due to licensing issues?
source: http://www.unwiredview.com/2011/03/27/google-nexus-tablet-with-android-3-x-to-be-made-by-lg-android-2-x-tablets-wont-upgrade-to-3-0/
peacekeeper05 said:
so if the news(rumors) are true, htc flyer won't be getting any honeycomb due to licensing issues?
source: http://www.unwiredview.com/2011/03/27/google-nexus-tablet-with-android-3-x-to-be-made-by-lg-android-2-x-tablets-wont-upgrade-to-3-0/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'd say that is probably just a rumour. I've not heard it from any other source. The article at unwiredreview is the only article that author has written and his dubious source of information is a Russian website that he links to
Also this from a far more reliable source:
From @HTC
@Farhadinho Absolutely. We are committed to offering a Honeycomb upgrade as soon as possible after Flyer's release.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Edit: Whether or not Google are restricting froyo-honeycomb upgrades, it seems the Flyer has got the green light:
http://news.softpedia.com/news/HTC-...r&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=twitter_web
What's all the hype over Honeycomb? I mean, what features do you gain other than all the overhype of being "tablet optimized. "
From my experience with the Xoom, tablet optimized means crashes at will and won't run crap......
Tabbed on my Galaxy 987
swedishcancerboi said:
What's all the hype over Honeycomb? I mean, what features do you gain other than all the overhype of being "tablet optimized. "
From my experience with the Xoom, tablet optimized means crashes at will and won't run crap......
Tabbed on my Galaxy 987
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agreee - I'd rather wait for a stable version.
The Xoom is a worst case scenario. Made by Motorola, released prematurely.
The main benefit I see from Honeycomb is apps which are designed to run on larger screens, instead or "over-inflated" phone apps
Great I can't wait, however....
I can't wait for this tablet to come to market. Ofcourse there will be things I do not like, one is the fact it is not a phone. It is a tablet, and I want a tablet also to be a phone. Since it has 3g enabled I think a phone application is not hard to install. Any ideas on this?
Was all for the flyer as I'm a massive HTC fan ,but just ordered the ASUS transformer as it suits my want for a tablet and the need for a net book for the kids and it has honeycomb already and has good reviews
LEEDROID DESIRE HD using XDA PREMIUM
Won't be buying due to the fact that I already have a galaxy tab (Big Mistake!!) Although the design and ui of the flyer look good, along with the fact that htc are good with updates, and a lot of people I have talked too like the pen. Not sure about the onlive myself due to the fact that you have to use a onlive controller (what are you meant to do with the tablet if the controller is in both hands?)
http://twitter.com/htc/status/60125525049491456
From HTC's twitter, in response to my questions about the Flyer. They are saying it will get a Honeycomb update.
brilldoctor said:
Not sure about the onlive myself due to the fact that you have to use a onlive controller (what are you meant to do with the tablet if the controller is in both hands?)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The idea is that you stream the game to your tv, so the flyer just replaces the normal onlive box that is sold, playing games on the flyer screen is also possible, but i agree that it sounds somewhat difficult :/ maybe they are going to sell some sort of case/stand like the Xoom and iPad have
but yes all the rumors suggest (from staples leaked sheets that a 10 and 8.9 inch honeycomb tablet from htc are coming this june, maybe thats when flyer will get update
id like to see what they do to sense considering there is that base bar on the honeycomb though
HTC Flyer (Evo View)
I'm disappointed in HTC's first tablet. Just the screen size is what disappoints me. Wondering why they dont add the 3D into it like the G-Slate has, after all they are coming out with a new EVO3d that i will be picking up once released!. Companies are struggling to separate themselves from everyone else when these android tablets are going to start looking identical, but HTC has their SenseUI and now Scribe which in my book gives them the edge! I'm just excited to see what happens with 3rd party firmware tweaking for performance to eliminate the possibility of skipping. MikFroyo and Fresh both have wonderful Firmwares that made my Evo many times better in terms of performance while clearing out the clutter
The LG tablet does not have a 3some screen, only 3d camera, a 3some screen of that size would add a lot of extra cost, it just wouldn't be worth it, but yes a bigger screen would have been a better choice by htc, but then again if you look at the first Android phones they made and compare them to what they have now....great things I predict to come
Sent from my HTC Desire using XDA App
Game over for me. I just cancelled my preorder since the release date is going to slip again. Im travelling early June and want to make sure I have something to travel with so I ordered the Galaxy Tab 10.1v which I can pick up in a week or so.
Im gutted really! I really wanted a 7" tablet and REALLY wanted a HTC. I will check back here and see what you guys think of it after release *sniff*
Hi Guys,
just got my Galaxy Tab 10.1 (PT7500 / 16GB / 3G) yesterday.
Great Tab so far!
But still i recognize one downturn:
When compared to an iPad2, the screen response in drawing/sketching apps is less then satisfactory. I'd even go so far to deem this unusuable - no matter whether is use a capacitive stylus or my finger.
The touchscreen simply lags about 5mm / 1 sec. in response time.
Anyone else experienced this?
Is this by design? HW fault? SW fault?
Basically, the 10.1 is by this nearly unusuable as sketchpad - which is one of my major use cases here.
Maybe someone has experienced something similar?
Thanks very much for any response on this!
Best regards,
Klaas.
Hi Guys,
just to add to this:
I have made some comparisons again on this issue and found that the Galaxy Tab Touchscreen is seriously "lagging behind" when drawing on it.
When using an iPad drawing App (Sketchpad), the response to the touch is instantenous, on the Galaxy Tab the lines drag behind the finger.
Please see attached two comparison drawings:
The Sketch Pad Document is from an iPad 2
The 1.jpg is done with Big Fat Canvas on the Galaxy Tab 10.1
Both are made with the same capacitive pencil and written in the same speed.
Interestingly enough: When i draw VERY slowly, the result on the Galaxy Tab is as good as on the iPad.
So it seems to be a software problem of the Samsung Touchscreen driver being not very well written. Anyone can confirm that?
Furthermore, i did some more quick comparisons of Android tablets in our local electronics store and found that they're all very different:
- ASUS Transformer comes most closely to iPad
- Motorola XOOM behind
- ACER Iconia very sluggish
The Samsung ties in somewhere in the middle.
Interestingly enough i haven't found any discussion in the web on this topic...
Looking forward to any feedback anyone might be able to give on that!
Best regards,
Klaas.
well, i can just say that dragging items on the home screen is ridiculously slow... This isnt a smooth operation at all!
I am absolutely with you!!! Maybe everyone can program a new driver, but i think it have to do with the energy settings:-(
BTW: I reported this to Samsung Support and their answer was (what else?)
"Factory Reset, if no use, please send in for repair"
Also, Adobe Sketchbook brought the same result.
It seems that the Android multitasking gets in the way of a decent polling interval of the touchscreen - or so it seems. When more apps are running in background, the touchscreen gets more laggy...
I'm interested to see whether this improves in newer Android versions - as it's currently an Android Tab is not really usefull as sketchpad...
Best regards,
Klaas.
Use sgs touchscreen booster! In will help a little bit
I also have the same issue. Using Sketchbook Pro, and even the included memo app, is completely unusable. Tried sga touchscreen booster as well and it made a little difference, but not enough to make me able to draw or write anything. The Asus Transformer is much better as a sketching thingy.
Has there been any development on this?
Is with stock Honeycomb 3.1 or Touchwiz? I noticed after "upgrading" to touchwiz that the touchscreen responsiveness got much worse. i ended up going back to regular Honeycomb 3.1.
Mine's with touchwiz out of the box (the 3g version). I figured that touchwiz might be the problem. What is the best rom out there?
Hi guys, I'm the developer of a stylus-writing app (https://market.android.com/details?id=com.writepad) and after getting a lot of complaints from Galaxy tab users, decided to buy one and test it against my Asus Transformer. Here are some results. My stylus is the AYL: http://www.amazon.com/Newest-Genera...rranty/dp/B004HO86P6/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top
Side by side, with the Samsung on the left and Asus on the right. Using the free app Maple Paint.
You can see from the W's that there are way fewer touch events from the Samsung touch screen. THat's why the corners are rounded. I had to confirm, so I did a similar test on my own app. The Asus registered 1076 touch events, while the Samsung registered around 600.
When I look at the actual MotionEvents, some differences: Pressure from Asus is around 0.8, and 0.13 on the Samsung. "Size" and "tool" are 0 on the Asus, and non-zero on Samsung.
Also, when you rest your palm on the screen, Samsung's touchscreen becomes unresponsive (even more so). The Asus has no such problem.
Is this a hardware or firmware issue? Will 3.2 update help?
transceiver said:
Hi guys, I'm the developer of a stylus-writing app (https://market.android.com/details?id=com.writepad) and after getting a lot of complaints from Galaxy tab users, decided to buy one and test it against my Asus Transformer. Here are some results. My stylus is the AYL: http://www.amazon.com/Newest-Genera...rranty/dp/B004HO86P6/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top
Is this a hardware or firmware issue? Will 3.2 update help?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I will try different software/firmware versions "side-by-side" when I get home to see if there's any improvement with the newer updates.
Is the Asus you tested with running Honeycomb 3.2 ?
Edit:
Have you taken your app "writepad stylus" off the market?
I paid for it (some weeks ago) and can't find it any more on the market.
fixfox2 said:
I will try different software/firmware versions "side-by-side" when I get home to see if there's any improvement with the newer updates.
Is the Asus you tested with running Honeycomb 3.2 ?
Edit:
Have you taken your app "writepad stylus" off the market?
I paid for it (some weeks ago) and can't find it any more on the market.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah Asus on 3.2, Samsung on 3.1 (though that's probably not the issue). I just ran Software update on samsung and it's on the latest firmware.
Writepad Stylus is here: https://market.android.com/details?id=com.writepad
version 2 is out
transceiver said:
Yeah Asus on 3.2, Samsung on 3.1 (though that's probably not the issue). I just ran Software update on samsung and it's on the latest firmware.
Writepad Stylus is here: https://market.android.com/details?id=com.writepad
version 2 is out
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I get "the requested item could not be found" when I click on the install button.
Thanks to transceiver for that nice comparison and testing of the handwriting app. I bought the new Samsung 10.1 tab with one of the primary intentions to use it to take handwritten notes during meetings and work sessions.
The Samsung's screen responsiveness is a great dissapointment and propably the worse I have seen of the current top "name brand" tablets. It is extremely sluggish in comparison to the rest and handwriting on it is almost impossible unless you write very slowly. Very frustrating indeed.
Let's hope they take note of this issue and can fix it with a firmware upgrade.
Returned Tab
I had the same problem. I actually returned my galaxy tab just because of this. I loved it but the iPad2 was far more responsive with handwriting. I use my tablet to jot ideas down and annotate very often. The slow Samsung tab was not adequate.
Yeah guys. Unfortunately it seems like both graphic driver and touchscreen sampling rate is crap. Made
Some small video and sent it to Samsung. They just did not care. Video is here:
http://youtu.be/0YAwpEK1Urc
I hope that soon the ics sources are released and we can replace the Samsung crap by something useable as CM8
Sent from my GT-P7500 using Tapatalk
wavy lines
just attached an image to show u guys what happens with a capacitive stylus
Absolute garbage if any one wants to do a simple sketch
Drawing diagonals produces wavy un even lines when drawn slowly with a capacitive stylus, hence any curve or circle comes out uneven
Can any of you post what happens when u draw a circle slowly or draw diagonals slowly using ur capacitive stylus
Want to know if its just my tablets problem
+ 1 It is totally unusable for anything then 5 year old finger painting.
Any devs looking at a possible fix?
Go to 10.1 Dev section .... check out the thread solving touchscreen sensitivity! Works like a charm .. handwriting works like how I like it now! Must get it!
Guys! now I am fed up..seems that they will never release honeycomb upgrade...
Anybody any news???
Try living in the US and being ignored even when it comes to small updates.
Think we'll see Honeycomb around the time the Puccini launches? You'd think, but it really appears that HTC has ignored the Flyer.
Try not being updated since launch.... screw it. Above post is most believable, Honeycomb when Jetstream/Skyrocket/Puccini launches.
We should bother the sh%t outta them about it. Seems to works.
Sent from my ADR6400L using XDA Premium App
aostl said:
We should bother the sh%t outta them about it. Seems to works.
Sent from my ADR6400L using XDA Premium App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LOL XD, I will call them.
Same here, paid in full for the 32gb 3g tablet on day one to use it for my work (illustration/concept design) because of the n-trig digitizer and form factor... Now 4 months later, i only use it for some dumb web browsing, mail checkin and occasionnal movie watchin, stuff that i could perfectly perform on my phone... The scribe sdk (recently released) seems to be 3.x specific from what i understand... AND NOW I'M MAD AS HELL, FED UP OF WAITING. Feel cheated and insulted by the total lack of communication. Should have wait and go for the upcoming Lenovo Thinkpad tablet with nvidia cpu, full size host usb, fullsize sdcard reader and honeycomb out of the box...
I just wish htc would communicate
If somebody know who to hit (that would matter), i'm down for some good old fashion mass emailing, or any action that would get em to give us a goddamn answer
Nox
noxizmad said:
Same here, paid in full for the 32gb 3g tablet on day one to use it for my work (illustration/concept design) because of the n-trig digitizer and form factor... Now 4 months later, i only use it for some dumb web browsing, mail checkin and occasionnal movie watchin, stuff that i could perfectly perform on my phone... The scribe sdk (recently released) seems to be 3.x specific from what i understand... AND NOW I'M MAD AS HELL, FED UP OF WAITING. Feel cheated and insulted by the total lack of communication. Should have wait and go for the upcoming Lenovo Thinkpad tablet with nvidia cpu, full size host usb, fullsize sdcard reader and honeycomb out of the box...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
With all respect, how did you plan to use your Flyer? For which kind of work? Why do you think the current software is incapable? It would be good if you can share with us.
If you think that you can not use efficiently the current Flyer for your work I am afraid that you will still be disappointed when the Honeycomb comes. IMHO, the Honeycomb will not bring significant changes in the Flyer's productivity.
BTW, Lenovo Thinkpad is 10" tablet which is in a complete different category. And Chinese Lenovo quality in general is worse than HTC's (I own an Lenovo T serie laptop, It's bad). I think HTC Puccini will be better than the Lenovo Tablet.
I 100% agree!! 100%.
It's not that HC will solve all of our issues or bring in Earth shattering functionality. That's not the point nor my immediate concern.
It's the complete lack of communication and the complete lack of backing.
HTC marketed scribe, where are the new apps supporting it? Where is the communication letting users know that supporting apps are coming?
HTC promised honeycomb "shortly after launch", where is it? Where's the communication?
Heck, where are the accessories?
If HTC is going to position themselves as a company that innovates on top of Android, then they have to do better than this...
My recommendation to you guys is to annoy the heck out of them on twitter and on their facebook page... I try to post to them every now and then just to be a pain in the ass
blue blue man said:
With all respect, how did you plan to use your Flyer? For which kind of work? Why do you think the current software is incapable? It would be good if you can share with us.
If you think that you can not use efficiently the current Flyer for your work I am afraid that you will still be disappointed when the Honeycomb comes. IMHO, the Honeycomb will not bring significant changes in the Flyer's productivity.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorta have to agree here. After playing with Honeycomb tablets in the stores, I'm wondering what all the fuss is about. Gingerbread + Sense makes the Flyer a wonderful tablet, IMHO.
Yeah, I'd like to see more pen aware apps. But I suspect it's only a matter of time before they start showing up (especially once other manufacturers adopt N-trig pen technology). And even if they don't, the ability to jot down notes is still worth the price of admission, IMHO.
dsf3g said:
Sorta have to agree here. After playing with Honeycomb tablets in the stores, I'm wondering what all the fuss is about. Gingerbread + Sense makes the Flyer a wonderful tablet, IMHO.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree here also. All the current HC tablets are laggy. HC has a few cool features, and looks nice. But the eye candy comes at the expense of performance. And none of the HC features missing from Gingerbread are real deal breakers. HTC is probably trying to figure out how to incorporate Sense without making HC even more laggy. Compared to current HC tablets, the Flyer GB experience is smoother and faster in most respects.
blue blue man said:
With all respect, how did you plan to use your Flyer? For which kind of work? Why do you think the current software is incapable? It would be good if you can share with us.
If you think that you can not use efficiently the current Flyer for your work I am afraid that you will still be disappointed when the Honeycomb comes. IMHO, the Honeycomb will not bring significant changes in the Flyer's productivity.
BTW, Lenovo Thinkpad is 10" tablet which is in a complete different category. And Chinese Lenovo quality in general is worse than HTC's (I own an Lenovo T serie laptop, It's bad). I think HTC Puccini will be better than the Lenovo Tablet.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
u may be right, maybe i'm trippin, but i know for sure that Autodesk Sketchbook pro for honeycomb is supposed to support the scribe/n-trig digitizers, so for now unfortunately it feels like this HC update is my best chance to be able to use the flyer as a digital sketchbook. I also keep an anxious eye on that Fresco thread in the meantime, and i sure hope the somebody can make this happen Gingerbread flavor... nobody likes a laggy tablet
for info, i plan to use it to do my preliminary sketches and color studies on the go. The note app combined with evernote may be great for note taking and sketching basic ideas, but misses alot of basic features to call it a painting app (canvas size, simple color mixing/picking, etc...)
i agree about the lenovo feeling pretty cheap compared to htc, but i really like the features, and it should run Sketchbook pro (for instance) with pen pressure out of the box... but i sure like the flyer form factor... i'm just reallyreallyreally frustrated right now...
Anybody knows when pretends HTC offer the Puccini?
September? October? November? Christmast?
I can try wait until Christmast... Not sure...
Depends on the roms...
And of course, i luv this tablet is perfect 4 me
Salu2
Enviado desde Flyer with tapatalk
Well, one thing is sure... Anyone of us that have performed the s-off method will not be able to upgrade anyhow! Unless guys here find a way to conform the HTC OTA protocol or HTC add geek allowance into their updates with a warning!
To be honest, I'm with others on here, I've tried HC, and unless HTC have given an even better Sense cover to it, it does not give me any thoughts of upgrade... They still have not fixed PPTP VPN for goodness sake....!
what is actually honeycomb.....
Honeycomb is a new version of Android (3.0) specifically made for tablets. As of now it is laggy, and not fit to run on the Flyer. ICS, is the version after Honeycomb which is to release this fall, and is one OS that runs on both tabs and phones.
Hi,
why isn´t there a rom with android 3.2?
Best regards
redpoint73 said:
HTC is probably trying to figure out how to incorporate Sense without making HC even more laggy.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They have. You can see HTC's UI customizations on the Puccini screenshots.
I received this response yesterday when pushing the issue
@htc: @TheNewDorkTimes The software is in development and we'll post here upon its release. Thank you for asking.” #flyer #honeycomb
again vague....companies like Motorola and HTC are screwing customers with false claims of soon to be released features and updates. This, "sell now and make promises philosophy", is pissing a lot of people off. People take the chance of purchasing the product in good faith expecting they will see what was promised soon. HTC can make great products but I for one will never purchase a product that promises features or capabilities in the near future. I will simply wait for something better or go with a reputable company that actually keeps it word.
I know the main leak wasn't, but I'm wondering if anyone has any recommendations on a Honeycomb ROM that's suitable for everyday use? This waiting game is getting really tiresome.
It depends on what you need to be working. All of the HC ROMs have issues with the camera in most apps other than the stock camera app and some issues with the mail widget not updating. Most other functions seem to be pretty solid and the interface looks a lot nicer. Since Google never released the source code for HC the 3rd party developers have no way to fix the bugs and we have to wait for HTC to drop another leak or final release.
yes
kkinder said:
I know the main leak wasn't, but I'm wondering if anyone has any recommendations on a Honeycomb ROM that's suitable for everyday use? This waiting game is getting really tiresome.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
?
The question is if you can live with the issues in the leak or not. They are not so big that you can't use it daily. I have it installed since the leak came out and happy with it. Never thought to go back...
For what it's worth....
It's just an operating system. It's like saying "I can't wait until I get Window 7 over Win XP". After the initial installation, and few minutes of "wow, that's cool" it's no big deal.
I had Honeycomb 3.1 on my GTablet and my girlfriend had an Motorola Xoom and it too had HC. IMHO the HTC Flyer is way better with Gingerbread than those with HC.
Just my opinion.
I don't think HC is going to give you any added functionality. If you use your tab for email, movies, web surfing, etc., then just stick to what you have.
Thanks all. Mostly I am looking at the tablet enabled apps, especially swype. But I don't know if I wanna put up with much broken, especially the camera which I actually do use. Thanks for your thoughts.
imp, swype is quite a hassle to use on tablets. Check out thumb keyboard. https://market.android.com/details?id=com.beansoft.keyboardplus&hl=en
I want to know if the pen functionality really impressive within all applications on honeycomb? Or is it just like another capasitive pen on other tablets because lack of pressure sensitivity? Can you feel the difference?
As i said in the title, i've tried a lot of version of CM9, Cm10, liquidsmooth,etc .This problem remains. When i was in the Horizontal screen mode everything seems smooth and as soon as i switch my screen to vertical, it becomes sooo laggy. It's very obvious when you try to open the drawer of the app, try to compare the speed with the Horizontal screen's . I hope this is not only my problem.
It's not only your problem. I and others have brought this up on the occasion in the past, but not enough people seem to give a crap. I know some of the tegra 2 tablets have this issue, but no one seems to be able to provide an answer in the case of the TP.
Infinite Jest said:
It's not only your problem. I and others have brought this up on the occasion in the past, but not enough people seem to give a crap. I know some of the tegra 2 tablets have this issue, but no one seems to be able to provide an answer in the case of the TP.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
guess it's the hardware problem? Well, the dev didn't pay any attention to it
This is a common problem with Android tablets since Honeycomb. It only happens in the tablet UI. The Nexus 7 I had, which runs a Phablet hybrid version of Jelly Bean which is more like the phone version of the OS worked fine.
Here is a video demonstrating the problem.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jbm8QAS3DI
the gist of the video is that when you are in any orientation other than the regular landscape, the frames per second displayed by the OS goes down.
I am an Android fanboy to my core but I just got my touchpad and I have to admit, I like webOS better. It is too bad about the whole "dying OS with almost no apps" thing. If HP had any vision, they would have stuck with it.
richdaley said:
This is a common problem with Android tablets since Honeycomb. It only happens in the tablet UI. The Nexus 7 I had, which runs a Phablet hybrid version of Jelly Bean which is more like the phone version of the OS worked fine.
Here is a video demonstrating the problem.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jbm8QAS3DI
the gist of the video is that when you are in any orientation other than the regular landscape, the frames per second displayed by the OS goes down.
I am an Android fanboy to my core but I just got my touchpad and I have to admit, I like webOS better. It is too bad about the whole "dying OS with almost no apps" thing. If HP had any vision, they would have stuck with it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thx for you explanation, but is there any chance that touchpad can get the same UI as Nexus 7's?? BTW, Webos is really a good os but has little number of apps