Related
http://www.droid-life.com/2011/04/0...eed&utm_campaign=Feed:+DroidLife+(droid+life)
This does not sound very good if true. The Fascinate is only a good phone because of the developers. It sounds like Verizon may already know who we are (as in, those who have rooted) and may have evil intent planned.
I can not go back to Stock on this phone. 2.2 w/ voodoo is the way. 2.1 Stock, please say ain't so! (That is if Verizon doesn't choose to deactivate us first). I don't tether so maybe they are only targeting that crowd...
I think I will not upgrade until a phone comes out that doesn't require rooting or ROMing. May have to put up with some bloat, but the new phones don't need to be overclocked, and the Dual Core's (rooted or not) seem to have virtually no lag. Android provides much custom option even without root.
I really hope the Galaxy SII comes to Verizon. I have my doubts.
I'm straight up leaving any carrier that does this. I refuse to let a random company tell me that I cannot do what I want with a device that I bought, especially given the inherent open nature of Android.
-Sent from the future using my time machine
This is not going to be pretty. Anyone remember Napster? Ticketmaster?
I don't think there is any confirmed source for this that it is actually happening, just that it could happen along with the locked boot loaders to "protect" users.
This sounds like a lawsuit waiting to happen...
On Monday, the U.S Copyright Office ruled that jailbreaking an iPhone or other mobile device will no longer violate federal copyright law
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Click to collapse
This was one of the headlines circulating last summer, and it is true. You can read more here.
Clicky
And as far as I know it is still legit to this date. So there is nothing any company can really do once the device is paid for. Now I don't know if this pertains to subsidized phones or corporate phones.
I would assume that doing this would be a HUGE violation by verizon and any carrier who participates. It is law that we are able to do what we want with our devices....for now.
Didn't they do this exact thing with the Moto Droid 1?
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1020494
Sounds like FUD to me. There is very little financial incentive for VZW to do this. Track yes, but do anything about, no.
VZW would quickly find that it's better to sell a unit for whatever reason than to lose a sale to another carrier/phone. (AOSP?)
Look at other embedded devices.
Linksys found it's better to just live with allowing 3rd party firmware than to fight it. They continue to offer a 'full' linux version of the WRT54G routers. Newegg even promotes it as being compatible with DD-WRT.
Since getting my android I don't keep up with media players but as far as I know, no providers are blocking RockBox. This is from 2006 but I still think shows how some companies embrace the value of 3rd party firmware:
"CNET reports that SanDisk is courting open source developers to port Rockbox to its popular MP3 players. SanDisk is currently the world's second most popular MP3 player manufacturer after Apple. Rockbox is an open source OS for most major MP3 players".
Carriers mostly get your money up front (and in your monthly usage bill). Not much financial incentive to stop how you use your phone. Ask yourself this. Why does VZW allow Google Maps if they offer VZ Navigator? Simple they sell more phones by including Google Maps than by 'forcing' you to use VZ Navigator.
Just my 0.02
Yeesh, I payed for the phone, and am paying for the data plan and all those other crappy fees. They better at least let me do what I want with the phone itself.
need to read this. from the guys at blackhat.
http://www.mydroidworld.com/forums/...rooting-manufacturers-carriers.html#post65013
if they shut off our service it will be legal. itll be in contracts. if you dont like them and wont sign them then you wont get service or whatever.
ugh.
what makes me mad is that devs and companies leak roms etc to us on purpose so we can test them better than they could in-house. pretty cheap testing if you ask me. then then fix things and release the offical updates.
just go after the bandwidth and warranty abusers.
I will not purchase another smart phone if this all comes to pass. I left the iPhone because of the draconian control the corporation exerted over *my* device, if Android goes the same way, I'll leave them too. I'd sooner drop back to a no-frills cell phone than to put up with a locked down and bloated to **** smartphone.
hasnt this battle already been won?? i mean with the Geohot situation last July that resulted in "jailbreaking" or modifying any mobile device being made legal? i dont think there is really anything they can do even if they do track us down and see who is rooted . mobile devices are safe im pretty sure . and hell , if Geohot comes through on this ps3 situation , gaming consoles will be too .
i suppose like the article says , they could deny us data ...maybe . but im pretty sure the law that was passed ... making it legal , would deny them the ability to punish us for doing something thats legal ..
i dunno , will be interesting to see how it plays out . if it does happen ... someone , somewhere , will find a way around it .
gkirby11 said:
This was one of the headlines circulating last summer, and it is true. You can read more here.
Clicky
And as far as I know it is still legit to this date. So there is nothing any company can really do once the device is paid for. Now I don't know if this pertains to subsidized phones or corporate phones.
I would assume that doing this would be a HUGE violation by verizon and any carrier who participates. It is law that we are able to do what we want with our devices....for now.
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Click to collapse
iPhone's jailbreaking was never illegal even before the reassuring news press event. This has been covered by many different news.
However, it is the company's decision to go with whatever policy they want. Apple clearly stated that it is your decision to jailbreak your phone, but this will invalidate your warranty.
If Verizon starts cutting off rooted users, I will find a new carrier. They already rip us off with their pricing, but dictating how we use our phones? No way.
It isn't like anything illegal is being done with our phones. I root it to take off the **** that they put on. I rooted it because they won't hand over my 2.2 update. I root it so that I can customize it to my liking. A rooted phone is what Android is supposed to be like, not the crap that Verizon (or even Samsung) feeds us.
gkirby11 said:
This was one of the headlines circulating last summer, and it is true. You can read more here.
Clicky
And as far as I know it is still legit to this date. So there is nothing any company can really do once the device is paid for. Now I don't know if this pertains to subsidized phones or corporate phones.
I would assume that doing this would be a HUGE violation by verizon and any carrier who participates. It is law that we are able to do what we want with our devices....for now.
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Click to collapse
yeah just so you know... it never was illegal. they just confirmed what we already knew.
I was in the ios scene for years before I came here, everybody made a big deal out of that bill but it didn't change anything at all really.
Sent from my MIUI SCH-i500
lucas.scott said:
hasnt this battle already been won?? i mean with the Geohot situation last July that resulted in "jailbreaking" or modifying any mobile device being made legal?
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Rooting/jailbreaking being legal wouldn't, in any way, stop carriers from deeming it a violation of the terms of service and denying access to the network.
The issue with Geohot was that Apple was trying to get the act of Jailbreaking considered a violation of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, and therefore, illegal. The courts concluded it wasn't, but the carriers can still draft any terms of service they like.
tbeas said:
If Verizon starts cutting off rooted users, I will find a new carrier. They already rip us off with their pricing, but dictating how we use our phones? No way.
It isn't like anything illegal is being done with our phones. I root it to take off the **** that they put on. I rooted it because they won't hand over my 2.2 update. I root it so that I can customize it to my liking. A rooted phone is what Android is supposed to be like, not the crap that Verizon (or even Samsung) feeds us.
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If they do go ahead with this it will be because of the largest data users being the ones most likely to flash a custom kernel that removes data throttling and enables free tethering. If 75% of the people who would be paying for tethering and use the most data aren't paying for the data/services then Verizon would see that as a huge loss of revenue and undue burden on the quality of their network.
Average Joe would view these users the same as P2P torrenting file sharers. Thieves. The term "root" will become synonymous with "bittorrent" even if you don't use it for mischevious practices. Both will be considered bad. You have to realize average Joe doesn't root or even understand it. The number of people who they are targeting is like 3% of Android users but they are probably using 20-30% or better of network resources. Its a win-win for Verizon. They lose relatively few customers and gain back a ton of network resources to sell to average Joe.
Bet your ass if its not already in your Verizon contract that using modified or unauthorized devices on the network being a breech of contract, that it will be added before you renew.
I have no issues with carriers tracking rooted users for the purpose of finding those that are tethering illegally (ie. without the proper data plan). However, if they start shutting off users that have rooted their devices just for the sake of rooting and cleaning them up or improving their functionality, that is over the line and I'm sure carriers such as MetroPCS and Cricket would love to see a nice new crowd of users come their way.
imnuts said:
I have no issues with carriers tracking rooted users for the purpose of finding those that are tethering illegally (ie. without the proper data plan). However, if they start shutting off users that have rooted their devices just for the sake of rooting and cleaning them up or improving their functionality, that is over the line and I'm sure carriers such as MetroPCS and Cricket would love to see a nice new crowd of users come their way.
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Click to collapse
The bad part is, Verizon won't miss us. We are tiny. They stand to gain far more than they will lose.
One solution if they are tracking who took their ota update would be to odin to stock, receive update then just odin/flash back to super clean or whatever you use
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App
Thought I'd give AT&T a call to complain about the battery issue since the firmware update. My thought being that if they don't get enough people complaining about it, they won't push any fixes from Samsung to the devices...
I ended up talking to someone at an obviously out-sourced call center. I told him that since the firmware update, I've had horrible battery life AND that I've had dropped calls more often than before...
After having me sing, dance, pray to the moon, and do strange (and almost sexual) things to my phone, he decided that I should get a replacement battery. (Nevermind that the issue started from a firmware update, that my battery is in PERFECT physical shape, etc) He also managed to insult me when he first asked about moisture exposure, and then had me check the moisture indicators (they were white.)
He then checked into the dropped calls, and tells me that I might be getting dropped calls because I'm not staying perfectly still when on the phone. (I guess tower hand-off is no longer supported with AT&T wireless.) He then claims that I, in the last 2 days, had two phone calls: one for 16 minutes and one for 137 minutes. That's obviously NOT calls I've made. I then read off my call log to him (including the dropped calls.) He, without any warning, then (I guess) puts me on hold. 44 minutes later (I was timing it), I hear a click and fast busy.
It's no wonder that AT&T was rated among the worst for customer service among wireless carriers.
Gary
I know exactly what you mean. I've had similar experiences dealing with their tech support. You get put on hold for huge amounts of time, then out of nowhere, they hang up. I remember one day, I was calling about a warranty replacement for one of my older phones, I was hung up on 4 times. It wasn't a dropped call, each person I asked said the call wasn't dropped but was hanged up, (plus I have never had a dropped call). They really need to step their game up.
If only there were some way to get those damn Wireshark caps of BT-AMP going nuts to someone with a clue...
I've given up hope.
LOL! I think that's how they trained their reps. Either said that "We have no problem with ###." Or hang up if the rep cannot find the answer in the scripts on CD. LOL!
Yeah I jist got off phone with att warranty replacement. I don't know if I'm happy yet.the good news is they are sending me a replacement. Bad new is its refurbished. I told them that I didn't pay $98 for a used phone. Argument didn't get me too far so we shall see what happens. She called it a rare condition Phone. My problem was the defective screen.with black splotches
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using xda premium
BeenAndroidized said:
LOL! I think that's how they trained their reps. Either said that "We have no problem with ###." Or hang up if the rep cannot find the answer in the scripts on CD. LOL!
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Lol! I worked for an AT&T call center a while back. You just gave me a flashback lol.
Simba501 said:
Lol! I worked for an AT&T call center a while back. You just gave me a flashback lol.
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U r welcome. It must be true then. ROFLOL.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using XDA App
Simba501 said:
I worked for an AT&T call center a while back.
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Oh. I'm so very sorry. Did it hurt? I'm glad to see you recovered from what must have been a low point in your life. You know, we all hit rock bottom at times, but as long as we get up, wipe off the dirt, and push on - everything will work out.
Gary
I used to work at an AT&T call center and can recommend the following when dealing with them...always call back if you don't get what you want (within reason), never wait on hold for more than 10 min at a time (it's against co. policy to not check in every 5 min), be as courteous as possible given your circumstances. As a personal choice, I never speak to guys because they never help me--I always hang up and call back. If you get someone on the line that's difficult to understand, you can always "request an American agent." The outsourced agents have to try to help you, but if you insist, they have to transfer you. I hope this was at least mildly useful to someone reading this...
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using xda premium
ONE of the reasons I'm moving to Verizon in a few months. Piss poor customer service. Thanks for sharing Gary!
sent from my Galaxy SII
lo-fi_engineer said:
The outsourced agents have to try to help you, but if you insist, they have to transfer you. I hope this was at least mildly useful to someone reading this...
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Really? That IS good to know. I have a conductive hearing loss, and its VERY VERY difficult for me to understand heavy or fast accents. Especially male accents (my loss is at the lower frequencies.)
Then again, half the outsourced agents insist they are in the US (but for some reason, only the ones actually in the US will tell me what state they are in.)
Very good information! Thank you!
Oh, and I'm glad to see that you survived your experience at AT&T. I hear employees at that company are starting to learn from Foxconn employees on how to leave a job. (jump off the roof of the building.)
ATT CS can be quite helpful. You just have to know how to talk and not waste time on an unhelpful agent.
Premier CS has always been American, helpful and always got me what I want/needed.
Red5 said:
Premier CS has always been American, helpful and always got me what I want/needed.
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What's premier CS? Extra customer service that you have to pay for?
If so that's kinda silly. Everyone gets CS, BUT if you want good CS, you need to pay extra ..LOL
sent from my Galaxy SII
No. I have a Premier account (tied in with my company corporate account) so when I call and the system runs my number, it sees that and automatically transfers me to Premier customer support... which has always been American, helpful and knowledgeable. I pay nothing extra.
Hmm good to know. (I've got a corporate FAN applied, so have a Premier account.)
That said, when I have an issue, I just go into a corporate store. My experience is that corporate-owned stores have superior technical support.
I'm wondering if there's a way I can bring the evidence against UCKK6 I've collected into a store and actually have it get somewhere useful...
Red5 said:
No. I have a Premier account (tied in with my company corporate account) so when I call and the system runs my number, it sees that and automatically transfers me to Premier customer support... which has always been American, helpful and knowledgeable. I pay nothing extra.
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Click to collapse
ah .. I don't have a premier account which explains the sh*tty customer service.
Well I'm a COR rep at an AT&T store, and I can tell you from experience that AT&T is a horrible company is so many ways.
I won't go into how bad they are to work for, and how horrible they treat their employees. They worry about the dumbrst stuff with their reps instead of worrying about what really counts in this company.
That aside. It's bad enough they treat us bad, but what's worse is they treat the customers bad.
Calling into Warranty is a nightmare, and I always suggest just driving to a Warranty center, which will be muich easier to get your phone replaced with minimal trouble.
Our deposit requirements are higher than any other Cell company. Yes we do have stricter credit requirements than Verizon. I've had customer who've had a few lines for years and never had an original deposit or late on their bills. You go to add a line and it hit's their credit and BOOM, it wants a deposit.
I could go on for an hour about all the crap, but I don't to depress anyone. LOL
The only reason I still work for AT&T is because I have been there so long that I'd hate to start out at the bottom with another company. But there are days I get close to putting in my resume at Verizon, which I think it is much better company in many ways.
On the phone with them now...
me: "My phone is less than 2 months old! I don't want it replaced with a refurbished phone. I want a new replacement."
them: "Sir, it won't be refurbished. it will be reconditioned."
me: "Please explain to me the difference."
them: "Sir, your phone is days more than 30 old, so it has to be reconditioned".
me: "Please explain to me the difference between refurbished and reconditioned. As far as I'm aware, they are the same."
them: "I told you that you have to have reconditioned replacement."
me: "I'd like to speak with an American Agent."
them: "I have no way to transfer you."
me: "I happen to know you can. Please transfer me to an american agent"
them: "there is nothing I can do transfer you."
me: "I'd like to speak with your supervisor"
them: "will you hold for 3-4 minutes while I get supervisor?"
me: "yes"
(5 minutes later)
them: "all supervisors are busy engaging in another calls. will you want to hold 3 4 more minutes?"
me: "yes"
...
(I hung up.)
Rather than mobility, I worked for AT&T/ Bell South's DSL division. It was rough at times, but all customer service is rough. You can't pick your customers (especially not the technologically illiterate) and when handling service-related calls, you often have to clean up after sales agents who lied to customers just to make their quota. It wouldn't be so bad, but corporate was complicit in encouraging that kind of behavior and the people that suffer are the customers and the tech & service suppport agents that they get irate with. I worked the system to keep my metrics in spec because corporate was more interested in how long I spent on a call than whether or not I actually fixed their problem. My opinion was that my primary goals were customer retention and connecting people with things they can actually use instead of worthless upgrades that they couldn't. Needless to say, I was the tier 2 agent you wanted to get bc I treated rules & processes like they were written in sand instead of stone:-D
My manager didn't like it, but his boss's boss liked my effectiveness so it was all good. As far as the job goes, it paid well, the benefits were good, and with such high turnover I got seniority for schedules in <6 months
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using xda premium
I was bored, and I had another question they did answer for me, then this happened, and I thought it was pretty funny. This is with VZW chat rep on their website of course.
I also e-mailed their Wireless side CEO concerning this, the unlimited data crap, locked bootloaders (want a GSIII but the bootloader...) and such. I cannot wait for the response.
ryan: so if you are on month 21 of the 24 month contract, what would the ETF be? Do you know?
Kareva: No, as it is different per account for various reasons. Are you looking to upgrade or add a new line today?
ryan: No I am looking to leave your company as you wouldn't move my upgrade forward by a few months, so I could upgrade to the GSIII and keep my unlimited data. Therefor you won't get my service any longer.
Kareva: Great! Would you like to number to customer care to find the ETF amount?
ryan: not now, and I am rather bothered that you are excited to lose customers. What kind of company is this...
Kareva: Well not so much excited, but it is your money and to see you leave because of something that is in a contract that you applied for, I can't be too mad. I hate that you will now have to deal with bad service, but your choice.
Kareva: Can I assist you with anything else?
ryan: lol what? I would rather take bad service from companys that don't lock bootloaders, don't strip unlimited data away from customers just for pure profit. Some people have morals, apparently not your company, or you
Kareva: Well is there anything else I can assist you with tonight?
ryan: oh so you can make accusations like that, but lack the balls to stand behind them?
Kareva: Is there anything else I can do for you today?
ryan: grow a pair and not make comments you won't stand behind. This will be e-mailed to your CEO.
ryan: Terrible customer service
Kareva: Have a great night and please come again. We thank you for being the greatest side of Verizon !
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Click to collapse
That's not the first time I've seen their chat reps being very rude. A friend of mine posted her chat with one of their reps and that rep was rude as well. I don't understand how they can get away with being so rude and keep their jobs. If I acted that way at my job I would be out the door.
Wow they really don't care at all anymore. Big red is a giant a-hole
Sent from my ADR6425LVW using Tapatalk 2
adavit said:
That's not the first time I've seen their chat reps being very rude. A friend of mine posted her chat with one of their reps and that rep was rude as well. I don't understand how they can get away with being so rude and keep their jobs. If I acted that way at my job I would be out the door.
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Click to collapse
Yeah it is terrible, I wrote this as the e-mail to the VZW CEO which also included the full chat between me and the rep. Can't wait for the response.
Hello,
I first off would like to state, that I am one of your customers rather upset by the choices Verizon has made in not letting us grandfather in on unlimited data, and forcing us to a tiered data plan, in what looks to be for nothing but pure extra unneeded profit. I probably will not be a customer for much longer due to this, and the fact that my upgrade is not terribly far away, but instead of moving it forward, and letting me get a galaxy SIII and keep my unlimited data, your company decided it was better to lose me. I am debating between buying a Galaxy SIII that your company has locked down which no other wireless provider has, or just paying the ETF and flat out leaving for another carrier now. I know my service wouldn't be as good as yours, but right now I don't feel as if your company deserves any more of my money, than I need to let you have. In doing so I joined your online chat to ask about the ETF. I wasn't bothered by the answer I got, but more so the excitement in the employees statement about me leaving verizon. I then was more bothered by the next statement made, that the rep then refused to respond too. I admit my responses ended up lacking a mature way of responding, but they were meant as intended. I think the employee realized their screw up as they forced me off the chat at the end. I would have been impressed with an "I am sorry I said that sir," but instead was treated like I ruined their day. I made sure to leave it up, so I can copy it here for you to read. I don't know if these are saved or not, but this is terrible behavior.
Loosing unlimited data, full price for phones, locked down bootloaders, and the way I have been treated by employees, are reason I will never come back or recommend verizon to anyone again. I stand with what I told the rep, I would rather stand behind my morals and have mediocre service, then lose them, and have great service.
I do give you a chance to change my mind, but I somehow don't see that happening.
Thank you for your time. (No my name is not ryan, but I had just ended a chat with my real name, with someone who was helpful, but forgot to ask about the ETF, and felt weird if I had ended up talking to them again.)
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Click to collapse
That is hilarious, I guess u got a bad CS rep. I have come across plenty of stupid ones, overly polite ones, or just people who write like they are copying and pasting from a handbook but never one of those.
I'm not defending the chat rep but aren't most of their responses just form responses anyway? I never had anything resembling a "conversation", I just assumed they basically went from a script, much like reading back tech support steps.
mbarry55 said:
I'm not defending the chat rep but aren't most of their responses just form responses anyway? I never had anything resembling a "conversation", I just assumed they basically went from a script, much like reading back tech support steps.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You really think that second response about other coverage sucking was script?
I know some answers are, but that doesn't feel that way. Which would explain why they wouldn't respond about it.
For the sake of playing devil's advocate I don't see anything too outrageous being said by the chat rep. Your comments come across as a little naive.
ryan: lol what? I would rather take bad service from companys that don't lock bootloaders, don't strip unlimited data away from customers just for pure profit. Some people have morals, apparently not your company, or you
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I mean at the end of the day they're a company who's primary goal is to, yes, make a profit. As they are honoring their current contractual obligations with you I don't really see this as a lack of morals?
For the record, I'm as unhappy about the changes and the bootloader annoyances and everything but we're kidding ourselves if we think this community represents the majority of wireless consumers. They are going to do whatever they want to do to turn a bigger profit. It's nothing personal, just capitalism...
nosympathy said:
You really think that second response about other coverage sucking was script?
I know some answers are, but that doesn't feel that way. Which would explain why they wouldn't respond about it.
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Click to collapse
I'll say at&t has the greatest customer service, if you have any issues they will do anything to keep you with them. I only went to Verizon to get away from tiered data plans
My contract ends next year, by then I hope at&t has 4g in my area and I'll be switching to them
Sent from my ADR6425LVW using Tapatalk 2
usefulidiot127 said:
For the sake of playing devil's advocate I don't see anything too outrageous being said by the chat rep. Your comments come across as a little naive.
I mean at the end of the day they're a company who's primary goal is to, yes, make a profit. As they are honoring their current contractual obligations with you I don't really see this as a lack of morals?
For the record, I'm as unhappy about the changes and the bootloader annoyances and everything but we're kidding ourselves if we think this community represents the majority of wireless consumers. They are going to do whatever they want to do to turn a bigger profit. It's nothing personal, just capitalism...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
MOST companies understand that good customer service equals a greater profit, Verizon can get away with this because of their coverage and reliablity, but soon enough they will get bitten in the ass by this and change their ways
Sent from my ADR6425LVW using Tapatalk 2
i tried, they completely dodged the questions and ended the chat verizon is seriously the worst
Maddison: Hello. Thank you for visiting our chat service. May I help you with your order today?
bob: Hello I just want to say i am very dissapointed with verizons plans to screw people out of their grandfathered unlimited data or else i would be purchasing a new phone soon but instead im thinking of leaving verzion
Maddison: I will be happy to assist you with your order today.
bob: okay nevermind iguess you guys really dont care about it
Maddison: It has been my pleasure to chat with you today! Please feel free to re-open the chat session if you need further assistance . Thank you and have a great day!
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usefulidiot127 said:
For the sake of playing devil's advocate I don't see anything too outrageous being said by the chat rep. Your comments come across as a little naive.
I mean at the end of the day they're a company who's primary goal is to, yes, make a profit. As they are honoring their current contractual obligations with you I don't really see this as a lack of morals?
For the record, I'm as unhappy about the changes and the bootloader annoyances and everything but we're kidding ourselves if we think this community represents the majority of wireless consumers. They are going to do whatever they want to do to turn a bigger profit. It's nothing personal, just capitalism...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
regardless of how you feel. Verizon found a loophole to the forced unlocked bootloaders of the 700mhz spectrum. No other company forces you to drop unlimited if you renew. Also, as you said yourself, we make up a small percentage. Yet that small percentage is the percentage they on purpose try and control the most.
Also, yes their statement was bothersome. Should have gone, "I am sorry to hear that sir, but unfortunately there is nothing I can do for you concerning this issue you are having."
Not, Have fun with the competitions crappy service. Specially when they do not know who I am going too, they are making assumptions.
I understand capitalism, but this really isn't it. There is too heavy of an attempted monopoly attitude with these companies. They don't compete to earn your business, they assume you will get their business and you will do whatever they say, because of their phone and service offerings.
nosympathy said:
regardless of how you feel. Verizon found a loophole to the forced unlocked bootloaders of the 700mhz spectrum. No other company forces you to drop unlimited if you renew. Also, as you said yourself, we make up a small percentage. Yet that small percentage is the percentage they on purpose try and control the most.
Also, yes their statement was bothersome. Should have gone, "I am sorry to hear that sir, but unfortunately there is nothing I can do for you concerning this issue you are having."
Not, Have fun with the competitions crappy service. Specially when they do not know who I am going too, they are making assumptions.
I understand capitalism, but this really isn't it. There is too heavy of an attempted monopoly attitude with these companies. They don't compete to earn your business, they assume you will get their business and you will do whatever they say, because of their phone and service offerings.
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Yea alright I'm done playing devil's advocate, I think we're mostly in agreement here.
ijustwantmydock said:
i tried, they completely dodged the questions and ended the chat verizon is seriously the worst
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They used siri
Sent from my iPhone...
ijustwantmydock said:
i tried, they completely dodged the questions and ended the chat verizon is seriously the worst
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Lololol. Webchat is a joke.
I am not siding with the VZW rep on this but it is competition that makes various businesses update/change policies. VZW cannot be to blame as your requests do not fall under the contract for which you signed. People take things for granted, if you are grandfathered into a unlimited data plan you should be happy with it. If you give someone an inch, they'll take a mile.
The providers all suck, each in their own unique ways. If you find the one that gives you awesome coverage, unlocked stock top-of-the-line cheap phones, provides OS upgrades quickly, no EFTs and unlimited data for great prices- please let me know where I can sign up!
Unlimited data is going away for everyone, just give it enough time. Grandfathers don't live forever.
richii0207 said:
I am not siding with the VZW rep on this but it is competition that makes various businesses update/change policies. VZW cannot be to blame as your requests do not fall under the contract for which you signed. People take things for granted, if you are grandfathered into a unlimited data plan you should be happy with it. If you give someone an inch, they'll take a mile.
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No what people are mad about is lack of competition.
You have four major wireless companies. A bunch of smaller companies.
The companies all have their little "thing" the other companies don't offer to try and real you in.
What needs to happen, is every carrier gets the same phones. May not be interchangable, but if one company gets phone B, all companies get phone B. All versions of phone B will be exactly identical, minus maybe GSM/CDMA etc. that HAS to be different.
All phones will be UMRP and sold at a subsidized price per the MFG. All your major and minor companies will then only have to focus on a few things. Coverage, plans, speed, and price. They could control the price of the phones too, and things would get better.
At this point, (ignore the fact it was kind of a fail advertising wise using it to prove a point) say the hot new phone comes out, the rezound, and you want it, you can have it on anybodies service. Now all four major companies, and if it applies, minor companies, will have to ACTUALLY compete to get your service. More mins for less money, unlimited data, better customer service. They would never burn you, because they know you won't be back, because they won't have that exclusive that you have to have.
this isn't exactly how it works over seas, but is closer, and from my understanding service over their is DIRT cheap, and look at the amount of phones over seas running cyanogenmod, aokp, MIUI, etc.
nosympathy said:
You really think that second response about other coverage sucking was script?
I know some answers are, but that doesn't feel that way. Which would explain why they wouldn't respond about it.
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Actually, that is. Granted, it was worded poorly, but it's in their script to talk about how bad service is with other carriers.
I don't have your phone, or Verizon.. but your post is why I don't have that phone, or Verizon. I've always been confused why people pay so much more to be with Verizon.. I pay 64.50 per month with T-Mobile, unlimited minutes and texts with 2gb of data. I could pay 76.40 and have 5gigs of data, do you actually need more??
Everyone has their reasons for choosing the company they do, tho most don't have very well thought out reasons.. these companies let each other use each others service, so technically you don't get better service from one over another.
And to the last guy who was posting about the subsidy situation with the carriers, in almost any other country in the world, phones are not locked into the carrier, and the carrier doesn't have the say so over the phone, which we know simply isn't true here. These companies try to hold on to the way things are, and they aren't going to stop.. simply for all the reasons you named. They are in control. They've made us their *****. We have to deal with it until the majority of consumers here change their buying habits.. but just like so many other issues, I don't see us ever working together to make positive change.
to the open, switch companies and feel good about it. Vzw sucks, you won't miss them.
Sent from my HTC_Amaze_4G using xda app-developers app
There's an article currently on Ars Technica which you all may be interested in.
Civil liberties advocates have asked the US Federal Trade Commission to take action against the nation's four major wireless carriers for selling millions of Android smartphones that never, or only rarely, receive updates to patch dangerous security vulnerabilities.
The request for investigation and complaint for injunctive relief was filed Tuesday by the American Civil Liberties Union against AT&T, Verizon Wireless, Sprint Nextel, and T-Mobile USA. The majority of phones that the carriers sell run Google's Android operating system and rarely receive software updates, the 16-page document stated. It went on to allege that the practice violates provisions of the Federal Trade Commission Act barring deceptive and unfair business practices, since the carriers don't disclose that the failure to provide updates in a timely manner puts customers at greater risk of hacking attacks. Among other things, the filing seeks an order allowing customers to terminate contracts that cover a phone that's no longer eligible to receive updates.
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I'll be following this case with a GREAT deal of interest. I urge anyone so inclined to send a few bucks to the ACLU - they seem to be in EFF territory here a bit, but that's fine with me.
def2moto said:
There's an article currently on Ars Technica which you all may be interested in.
I'll be following this case with a GREAT deal of interest. I urge anyone so inclined to send a few bucks to the ACLU - they seem to be in EFF territory here a bit, but that's fine with me.
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Sound interesting, but I don't think its going to have any impact. I read this somewhere:
The ACLU filing is a request that the FTC investigate the carriers along with factual and legal support for the argument that the four carriers aren’t complying with US law. The commission isn’t required to take any action in response. In the event FTC staff members launch an investigation, it could be months or even years for it to become public.
Blah, ACLU. Just another political action committee.
Hey I know this will come as a great shock to you all. For the time I spent with Sprint this afternoon I could've done some web work or something and made enough money to just pay their fees but its the *principle* ya know?
Anyway, when I contacted them several ways to get the early termination waved or get like the HTC One for switching new customer price because of the lack of upgrades, the first chat person said "Oh the Q update went out on the 14th" and then told me to call in.
I called in a few times, a Dominique hung up on me, but a Heidi was as sympathetic as the corporate manual allows. The price kept changing. They said I could do an early upgrade for $160 plus then the upgrade cost of a phone. Then they dropped that to $155. They said the early termination to $175.
Anyway, they also claimed that I should just go to the store to have them fix the security problems. I told them that wouldn't help, and they didn't believe me. They also told me that no one is complaining about any hacks.
So if you're bored, go ahead an try to inform a customer service rep about this complaint. I know this matters nothing, but I think that since we're in the right with it that it is a situation that we should participate fully in. Even if you no longer have a Photon the complaint is still valid for all phones not on 4.2, and for probably most phones against still when 4.3 comes out.
I know we also somewhat benefit from having the control of being able to hack the things, but that is subtly different than someone in the future finding browser vulnerabilities that stay open for years. It could eventually lead to them locking things down a la Apple, but that is a different fight. Hack it if you own it, don't hack it if you don't own it.
tomgaga said:
Sound interesting, but I don't think its going to have any impact. I read this somewhere:
The ACLU filing is a request that the FTC investigate the carriers along with factual and legal support for the argument that the four carriers aren’t complying with US law. The commission isn’t required to take any action in response. In the event FTC staff members launch an investigation, it could be months or even years for it to become public.
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This old thread is telling given the recent arrival of the Stagefright exploit. ACLU was on the money with this one two years and I can now imagine a potential massive class-action lawsuit against carriers for negligence with user data security. Forced arbitration agreements are likely to head off such an effort, but there are signs that the legal stakes for consumer data security are rising: http://www.wired.com/2015/07/new-hope-victims-data-breaches/
Instead of jockeying for lower prices or switching to no contracts, one of the major carriers should standout by creating a low-cost-no-added-commitment phone upgrade program since the cost of supporting older phones is too high for their bottom line. If they don't do it themselves, I can imagine a day when carriers are soon required to issue phone recalls when a substantial exploit is discovered.
I'm about send a six page letter to the Verizon VP of retail operations and customer service. I have never experienced more improper behavior by the hourly employees of any company. Before the V10 release I called to confirm that unlimited data customers could buy the phone on the device payment plan on Nov. 15th. I received numerous confirmations over the phone. When I entered the store they had no idea what I was talking about. Fine, put that on Verizon corporate for not properly informing all the stores of what was going on. After many calls a customer service supervisor indicated that I was correct but that Verizon had not updated its own software to make the change in time. I placed the order online that night as the stores had already closed. When I called the next day with another supervisor they again told me I was correct and would make arrangement to ensure that I was given the device payment plan without losing my unlimited data. I arranged to pick up the phone at an official Verizon store. The supervisor assured me that she would follow up after I picked up the phone to make sure everything was correct.
SHADY BEHAVIOR #1 - that same supervisor went into the notes after the call the next day and left an outright lie indicating that she informed the customer (me) that I would NOT be able to buy on the device payment plan until December. The order was canceled and NO ONE notified until AFTER I walked into the store to pick up the phone. My order was canceled without any notification via email or text, so I basically wasted my time going to the store and making all these calls with the supervisor.
SHADY BEHAVIOR #2 - When I called customer service from wihin the store, another supervisor, who said she knew the first supervisor personally, began telling me that I had no order. I emailed it to her and she began refuting the validity of it and when I asked her to give me the status of the order she admitted she had no way of knowing because she had no access to internet orders, which was not her department. Clearly she was just trying to cover for her supervisor friend. I immediately told her to stop wasting my time, now some 30 minutes after first calling, and connect me with a supervisor in the internet orders department ASAP, what she should have done from the beginning. Unbelievable... they see that you are clearly angered and yet they try to blame you the customer for their mistakes.
I returned the phone after I was told that device payment plan would start exactly one week later. On the day I was eligible for the DPP I purchased a new phone. After spending nearly 10 hours and speaking to over a dozen different Verizon employees I wasn't about to come away from the ordeal without the device payment play as I was assured I would.
SHADY BEHAVIOR #3 - In the store the new phone (#2) was handed to me without a screen protector and a receipt was not given to me.
SHADY BEHAVIOR #4 - when I went back into the store to ask for a receipt, and point out that the phone was not working, a employee passed himself off as being "THE" manager. I asked him if he was the store manager and he admitted he was not. He would not provide me with receipt because the store was now closed although many employees were still inside with some customers. He said my receipt information would be available online, which was false. Even the confirmation email sent did not make reference to the model of the phone that was purchased it only made reference to my old phone.
SHADY BEHAVIOR #5 - The next day I returned the phone and was finally given a receipt. This phone also stopped working properly after a few hours! I called a store near my work to confirm if they had a replacement phone in stock and they said they did. I walked over to the store and they said, after finding out it was for an exchange, that they did not have the phone in stock after all. Huh? I drove over to another Verizon store as no one was picking up the phone (??) and as soon as I walked in I asked if they had my phone in stock. They said sure we have it. I asked them to confirm but they would not tell me unless I gave them my phone number, presumably to see if I was there for an exchange or for a new line activation. I told the guy it was for an exchange and he went in the back stock room and, when he came out surprise, surprise they didn't have the phone in stock. I'm tenacious so I walked over to the third Verizon store of the night. On the way over I called and asked if they had the phone in stock, they confirmed that they did and that they had more than one in stock. When I walked in they tried to do the same thing, as soon as I asked if they had it in stock they wouldn't answer unless I gave them my phone number. But this time I had them on the hook because the guy told me over the phone that they the phone in stock and "PLENTY". The employee that took care of me tried to give me the run around too once they saw it was an exchange. She took my phone to the back room to show it to her manager and confirm the equipment problem. I asked her to tell him to come out as I did not want my phone leaving my sight for long. She said he could not come out..... shady. She comes out with a new phone and I ask her to turn it on before she switches over the service as I want to make sure the screen is 100% operational before I have to go through a third exchange. She says she can't take it out of the box without switching over the service. I asked her if they had more than one of the phone in stock in case there was a problem, and without making eye contact she responds with an incoherent "nu uhh" and head shake. I did not tell her that her own co-worker confirmed that they IN FACT did have more than one phone in stock nor did I ask why they were now singing a different tune. Seriously... this is how a publicly traded company runs its retail operations?
To summarize, I was LIED to repeatedly by Verizon employees. Supervisors lied in their notes to cover up their giving out incorrect information. Verizon retail stores make it deliberately hard for your to exchange a phone. I plan to send this letter to the consumer protection agency run by the federal government.
Somehow I find it hard to believe you where treated this badly by VZ. You had 3 brand new defective phones in a row??
I have dealt with 3 different VZ stores in my area & have had excellent/courteous service from all 3. Sure, we where all upset when VZ raised the price of the unlimited data service by $20 a month (I cancelled 3 lines because of that) but that was not their employees fault.
I owned a retail store for over 20 years & your whole attitude seems to me as being one of those customers that is never satisfied no matter how hard they try.
~John
^ Yes I can tell you were a retail owner. To make a blanket statement like "your whole attitude" is indicative of that.
You made not a single mention of the outright lies that were told by the Verizon employees but instead opted to put it on the customer or impugned the customer's integrity by voicing skepticism of faulty equipment without any solid basis for that skepticism. You don't know me, and you don't know the track record of an entirely new phone. Have you visited the LG forums to see those who have had to make multiple returns? Of course not. Yours is the typical management response of Fortune 500 companies that are loathed by the public.
Also, there were two returns for faulty equipment, each confirmed at the Verizon store before a new phone was given. The first return was simply my prerogative to take advantage of the device payment plan, as I was initially told by numerous Verizon employees prior to the initial sale. And secondly you fail to address the point that the stores apparently have unethical motivation to make an exchange of their inventory for another location's sale of hotly sought after phones deliberately more difficult.
And by the way, I worked for a five star hotel, deemed the best in the metropolitan area, all through college where we bent over backwards to ensure customer loyalty and to deliver value for premium services. I had to take written tests for AAA certification to verify that I knew all the latest information required of my job and had frequent training seminars to ensure that we were all worthy of the "best in class" title. Verizon like trumpet that they're the best, evidently they don't visit their own stores very often. You know how well your operation is doing when the customer has a problem, and not just for how well they handle mundane transactions. Can your staff rectify the problem as quickly as possible without further aggravation to customer? But ultimately we're not talking about just dropped balls and incompetence here, we're talking of employees repeatedly making deliberately false statements to customers. That's beyond acceptable.
Sucks to be PorscheOscar.
Is there any chance that the humanity of at least ONE employee would have come forth and done at least half-of-the-right-thing by you if you were presenting a good persona?
But I feel for you ... because of course ... ALL the employee's in the store wouldn't have the same negative attitude and manipulate a computer system because the person in front of them was completely rational, respectful and courteous. It has to be some corporate level decision that was sent through the regional representatives and programmed into the one store to single YOU out and destroy your integrity.
I've been disappointed by some of Verizon's products and also their staff before - but instead of finding a manager within the store that supported someone I couldn't get a positive interaction with, I just drove 5 to 10 miles in any direction and went to a different Verizon store.
Good luck trying to get good service from a Verizon Rep based on the computer notes now!
I've been with Verizon for 10+ years (also have unlimited data). I've been pretty happy with their service. I typically call 611 when I have issues rather than visiting a call. The stores #1 (and seemingly only) objective is to sell devices. They have no interest in handling returns/defects/etc. I've actually called 611 from within a store when a sales rep told me something wasn't covered.
The information they told you could have been true and false at the same time. Did they have several brand new V10's in inventory? Yes. Did they have refurbed V10's in inventory to issue as replacements? No. Most companies will not give you a brand new phone as a replacement. A manager can choose to give you one but that's few and far between. Though Verizon (in terms of the big 4 carriers) is your best bet at getting such replacement.
Next time try calling 611. They'll ship you a replacement and give you a return label for the defective one.
All in all, your experience is still better than you'd expect from AT&T. Wanna test that? Ask a Verizon rep to send you a text or e-mail (written confirmation) of something. They will. I've been fighting AT&T U-Verse since July for a bill that I don't owe. Every month they bill me, every month I call and explain, and every month some rep (or manager) has said not to worry and they've removed it from my account. EVERY SINGLE REP has told me they're not allowed to send any e-mails, texts, faxes, or mail...no written confirmation. I got my first collection letter last week. It's my word against theirs. Sorry POS company!
Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk
joshw0000 said:
I've been with Verizon for 10+ years (also have unlimited data). I've been pretty happy with their service. I typically call 611 when I have issues rather than visiting a call. The stores #1 (and seemingly only) objective is to sell devices. They have no interest in handling returns/defects/etc. I've actually called 611 from within a store when a sales rep told me something wasn't covered.
The information they told you could have been true and false at the same time. Did they have several brand new V10's in inventory? Yes. Did they have refurbed V10's in inventory to issue as replacements? No. Most companies will not give you a brand new phone as a replacement. A manager can choose to give you one but that's few and far between. Though Verizon (in terms of the big 4 carriers) is your best bet at getting such replacement.
Next time try calling 611. They'll ship you a replacement and give you a return label for the defective one.
All in all, your experience is still better than you'd expect from AT&T. Wanna test that? Ask a Verizon rep to send you a text or e-mail (written confirmation) of something. They will. I've been fighting AT&T U-Verse since July for a bill that I don't owe. Every month they bill me, every month I call and explain, and every month some rep (or manager) has said not to worry and they've removed it from my account. EVERY SINGLE REP has told me they're not allowed to send any e-mails, texts, faxes, or mail...no written confirmation. I got my first collection letter last week. It's my word against theirs. Sorry POS company!
Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk
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1. I'm glad you pointed out the issue about exchanges vs. Refunds. Note to all: if you are still in your two week return window and have an issue DO NOT EXCHANGE. RETURN FOR REDUND ONLY. They will not tell you if you are receiving a refurbished phone. Demand a new phone. I can't believe I made this mistake because I had exactly this same experience 6 years ago with Droid X. They kept giving me refurbished phones one after the other until I was in my 9th return. Verizon have very poor if nonexistent quality control testing of refurbished phones. I'm going to have to give hard thought to returning this phone if they confirm that it's a refurb, even if I have to eat the $35 restocking fee. Given how the manager of the store couldn't be bothered to leave the back room I have no issue with giving him a return.
2. Yes AT&T is bad, Sprint is Worse and Tmobil I once caught red handed doing something shady on international calls which I reported to the State Attorneys and FCC. But Verizon leads them all for expensive service. The expectation of competent and non-shady service goes up. This all unfortunate because I reward straight shooters with long term loyalty. I would expect this from a fly by night Cell phone company but not an established company with millions of shareholders.
Was the Droid X that long ago? I loved that phone.
Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk
I've never had issues with Verizon by phone conversation. but going to a Verizon retail store is a different story. stay away
I called LG to verify I had a new phone and They said it was. Also, while I was in the phone with them I asked about an issue I was having with a set of refurbished LG 900 Infinium headphones purchased on Amazon. I was told that if you buy LG Bluetooth headphones and have an issue they will send you new unit not a refurbished even though they were refurbs to begin with.
I also called Verizon tech support and they claim that if you go in store for an exchange they can only give you new phones as they don't stock refurbs. If however you make a claim over the phone They will send you refurbished units. Avoid that at all costs if you are in your 14 day return window.
joshw0000 said:
Was the Droid X that long ago? I loved that phone.
Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk
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I keep every phone I ever had in my desk as a little museum. I still have my BlackBerry Pearl..the first must have phone all my friends ran out and switched too, the iphone wasn't the first. But the Droid X was the phone I got when I left T-Mobile just to secure unlimited data. When the iPhone 4 was announced still without 4G, I was Android do good.
porscheoscar said:
I keep every phone I ever had in my desk as a little museum. I still have my BlackBerry Pearl..the first must have phone all my friends ran out and switched too, the iphone wasn't the first. But the Droid X was the phone I got when I left T-Mobile just to secure unlimited data. When the iPhone 4 was announced still without 4G, I was Android do good.
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I sell mine as soon as a better phone is released. That's how I get to try every new phone that will work on Verizon.
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i'm not sure how you got so far as to preorder on the phone then schedule an in store pick up. I called about 3 times before actually going through with a purchase on my UDP line and making sure every questions was answered. I then proceeded to get the phone picked the phone and color then the person couldn't proceed. I was then transferred and they clearly explained to me the deal after again trying and not being able to proceed while keeping the UDP line. I then had to wait til my pay period ended. 3 days later I went to the store and did the actual DPP on my UDP line.
Sorry you had a bad experience. I usually avoid the stores at all costs.
I've had generally good experiences with Verizon stores, but tend to do my business online, simply because I don't have to worry about being pushed or "pitched" anything. Recently, my wife's LG G4 was caught in a bootloop (showed LG logo, then went black). After 3 store reps fiddled around with it trying to factory reset it (BTW, it said "Modified" on the menu, but none noticed that fact!) As one of them was processing the warranty replacement, another guy walked into the store with a G4 and it was doing the exact same thing! Anyway, I asked them if there was anything else I could do since my wife wanted to take photos for Christmas (this was on the 23rd) and the replacement was shipping 2-day. They did offer for me to buy a new phone, but her G4 is 6 months old. Anyway, they seemed very helpful to me and I've never experienced what the OP did--doesn't mean it can't happen, but I would say it's rare.
As a small side-note to my story, I happened to be shopping at BJ's Wholesale during the day on Christmas Eve. In the store, there's a Verizon Kiosk, which is actually run by Diamond Wireless. EVERY SINGLE TIME I've done anything through them, they've been amazing. I guess it actually helps to have some degrees of separation from VZW! I told the guy what happened to my wife's phone. I asked him if I could buy a phone, then return it within 14 days without being worse for the wear--which he confirmed. He then suggested I "buy" the V10 as it has a better camera, etc. Since VZW had already issued a warranty replacement G4, he said they couldn't cancel it, but he suggested that I do a "buddy upgrade" (I have 3 total lines eligible), which I did. Unfortunately, my employee discount doesn't allow payment plan, so I was out $300 temporarily. HOWEVER, LG is giving a $100 rebate (Visa Gift Card). Then on top of that, the replacement G4 that will arrive shortly will be all mine--I'm hoping to sell it for at least $200, so I will break even in the long run. The Diamond Wireless guy walked me through everything, answering all my pesky questions and ensuring everything was done properly. The best part is that my wife has an amazing new phone and took many great Christmas photos with it. I like the phone so much, I'm thinking of switching to a V10 myself... I may wait to see if/what HTC releases next (usually March) and if it doesn't suit my fancy, I'm a new LG V10 owner.
Hell yeah the VZW stores are shady! I had to call CS for 3 months to get a 50 dollar credit I was assured was coming to me. I've jumped from Verizon since then, same bull**** just different source at this point
My experiences have been just the opposite. The instore folks have been so helpful. The telehelp people were clueless about all the discounts on my account and completely jacked everything up. The store manager did some creative genius and my account got fixed. His creativity cost me $35 but it saved me over $1,000 in the end. Everytime I've been in to the store I've had great experiences. I've been in so much recently that I practically know all the employees by first name. (Lots of $300 trade-ins of $10 phones. Thank Vzw!)
I'm not trying to negate your negative experiences as I've seen upset people in the Vzw store every time I've gone in. I understand your frustration and writing the letter was probably very therapuetic. However, sending it probably won't make one bit of difference. The stores are meant for one purpose and only one purpose, sign up new accounts and do phone upgrades. They aren't there to do exchanges like Walmart. If they give you a new phone then that means there's one less new phone in the store to sell. Verizon is a business in business to make money. Exchanging a phone doesn't bring them any new money. Like it or not, that's the facts jack.
If you haven't sent the letter yet then don't bother. You'll probably get a nasty note added to your file.
Op.
You are whats wrong with america, everytime you think you have been wronged in the SLIGHTEST way, You go cry to the better business bureau or aaa or fbi cia dea, obama, whoever will listen to your little violin playing at your pity party.. ...big red is a big companh, they dont give 2 f's about you or your opinion, and neither does the government agency who has their contracted service through big red... Play the game, or get pegged as a pest...and then treated as such
porscheoscar said:
I'm about send a six page letter to the Verizon VP of retail operations and customer service.
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You can stop right there. Your post here is already tl;dr.
Time to do some serious editing. Ideally, you'll parse it down to a single page. Two pages is the max.
Beyond that, you're into serial killer manifesto territory. The only reason anybody will read beyond the second page is to see if you're just a kook, or if you're actually a threat and they need to report you to law enforcement.
Itt: people who don't know what a sales quota is,so they're surprised a corporate verizon rep is only concerned with a sale. Their quotas are so high their jobs are quite frequently on the chopping block if they take time to actually help customers with issues like this.
It sucks, but that's why I usually go to authorized retailers instead.
There's always two sides. Funny thing is 97% of the shadiness I've seen from T-Mobile AND Verizon was to benefit me. You probably come off as pretentious and entitled over the phone, same as in text.
Sorry you had to go through all that nonsense but its true if its a Corporate store they do not care about customer service I have experienced myself and have been lied to also , its much better to go thru a 3rd party where they will treat you better or customer service and since all the nonsense with corp stores I always avoid them would rather get the phone on ebay or amazon or even craigslist before I go to a corp store cuz all they are interested in is sales vs customer sevices and I have many friends and family memebers with Verizon that have had bad experiences so I beleive you sir and its a shame that it happens cuz they are a huge corp that should not be acting like that and should try to make the customer happy even though there are some customers out there that are worse than the employees cuz they expect to get their way cuz of that stupid saying "The Customer is always RIGHT" which is also aload of bs,Anyways it works both ways!!!!!!!!!!!!!!