I thought it worth opening a discussion on the recent Google engineer's Google+ post on how ICS handles hardware acceleration vs. Honeycomb. That is to say, it doesn't offer "more" hardware acceleration at all.
https://plus.google.com/105051985738280261832/posts/2FXDCz8x93s
Not to say that ICS won't be more highly optimized nor that it might not have better multi-core support (I have no idea if it does or doesn't), but it's not going to offer magically better hardware acceleration than Honeycomb.
Thoughts?
That was an interesting read when I saw it earlier, yes. I can't really say what the consequences of it are, as I haven't used Honeycomb. At least we can take from it that, as Tegra 3 has the most powerful GPU on any Android device, it has the most potential to be the smoothest in operation?
Mithent said:
That was an interesting read when I saw it earlier, yes. I can't really say what the consequences of it are, as I haven't used Honeycomb. At least we can take from it that, as Tegra 3 has the most powerful GPU on any Android device, it has the most potential to be the smoothest in operation?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Unlikely.
When it comes to hardware acceleration and multi-core support, then Android 4.0 is pretty much the same as Honeycomb. My only hope is that the UI of Android 4.0 is better, as it is not very laggy on my Galaxy Nexus.
Multi-core will play more role when there are a lot of parallel tasks, it might affect some games, but overall, while it will be the best Android tablet yet, it won't be the best tablet ever. For that we still have to wait at least a year or more.
so they're saying it's just their piss poor optimization for ANYTHING that makes dual core devices with 1GB of ram run like crap on their OS.
dissapointing.
kristovaher said:
Unlikely.
When it comes to hardware acceleration and multi-core support, then Android 4.0 is pretty much the same as Honeycomb. My only hope is that the UI of Android 4.0 is better, as it is not very laggy on my Galaxy Nexus.
Multi-core will play more role when there are a lot of parallel tasks, it might affect some games, but overall, while it will be the best Android tablet yet, it won't be the best tablet ever. For that we still have to wait at least a year or more.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's...a paradox!
Optimization is the name of the game. ICS will help the Tegra 2 tabs, but i suspect it will have an even greater impact on the prime.
kristovaher said:
When it comes to hardware acceleration and multi-core support, then Android 4.0 is pretty much the same as Honeycomb.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Indeed. I was really referring to this in the linked article:
As device screen resolution goes up, achieving a 60fps UI is closely related to GPU speed and especially the GPU’s memory bus bandwidth.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think the reality is ...
Google screwed the pooch when it came to having non-native apps (aka framework based) be accelerated *efficiently* in pre-3.0 days. Some operations did go to the GPU then, but the fact was some sub-view getting invalidated caused much more rendering than was needed.
In 3.x they added an option to have apps say "please accelerate me", but that option is an "opt-in". That choice was done for back-compatibility (not *every* operation in the framework is allowed to be accelerated which means some apps could break).
In reality, most of the "OS" level apps did an opt-in, but not everything. I also doubt general "market" apps do the opt-in (unless they are 3.x+ only).
In 4.x, it's going to be an "opt-out" strategy. So, if an app is broken in ICS, then the developer needs to update/fix their code (IFF necessary, since most are likely to "just work").
kristovaher said:
Unlikely.
When it comes to hardware acceleration and multi-core support, then Android 4.0 is pretty much the same as Honeycomb. My only hope is that the UI of Android 4.0 is better, as it is not very laggy on my Galaxy Nexus.
Multi-core will play more role when there are a lot of parallel tasks, it might affect some games, but overall, while it will be the best Android tablet yet, it won't be the best tablet ever. For that we still have to wait at least a year or more.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
From what I understand, Honeycomb offers dual-core support. ICS offers greater support than only dual-core.
While that whole read was a little bit disappointing, I am still convinced that ICS overall has been cleaned up compared to Honeycomb/Gingerbread and will make better use of the exceptional hardware of Android devices. The Verge gave ICS an absolutely glowing review in their review of the Galaxy Nexus (they notably said that it was the single greatest leap in the Android OS), and for my particular phone (HTC Sensation), the people who have tried a pre-alpha build of ICS have said that it's already a good deal smoother than Gingerbread ROMs, and of course they aren't even using fully fleshed out builds of ICS.
Whether or not ICS offers things a lot of people have been talking about like greater hardware acceleration, I don't care. As long as it's smoother and can finally hold up a torch to the speed of iOS, that's all that matters. I couldn't care less about the means to achieve that.
I think the biggest gain tye dev community (and in turn the userbase) is going to get from ics is that they will finally release source for a tablet branch of android.
The Janitor Mop said:
the people who have tried a pre-alpha build of ICS have said that it's already a good deal smoother than Gingerbread ROMs, and of course they aren't even using fully fleshed out builds of ICS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've no doubt that ICS significantly improves on Gingerbread on phones. The question is, how significant will the improvement be from Honeycomb on tablets?
Not saying either way, just moving the discussion along.
wynand32 said:
I've no doubt that ICS significantly improves on Gingerbread on phones. The question is, how significant will the improvement be from Honeycomb on tablets?
Not saying either way, just moving the discussion along.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Of course, there is no way to say for sure. But Gingerbread has dual-core support just like Honeycomb does. Assuming part of the reason these pre-alpha ICS builds for my phone are so fast is better multi-core support, then I would think there's good evidence ICS would also improve multi-core support over Honeycomb. I don't think there's any reason to doubt that ICS will be faster on tablets than Honeycomb was, though I will admit we really do have no way of knowing how much. Ultimately, I say we give up the whole "in theory" game, wait for our TF Prime's to ship, and then update them to ICS once that update becomes available. Considering that Asus promised a before the end of the year update, I'd assume that means mid-January is the latest we get ICS. That's only about 5-6 weeks from now to wait to personally be able to see what ICS can do.
A great reply to the initial post:
https://plus.google.com/100838276097451809262/posts/VDkV9XaJRGS
If you're into this stuff, it's a pretty interesting read.
I'll read it, but he starts by saying that webOS performs without lag. Um, what?
Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk
Even Nvidia have confirmed already that software will not matter when it comes to the tegra 3 chipset...
It treats all software the same quad core optimized or not. I dont think ICS will improved anything other than maybe anti-piracy. It will also suck down your 1gb ram alot quicker too because it requires more ram to operate than honeycomb.
Here is a video from nvidia showing how the cores work with software, quad core optimized or not.
http://www.hardwareclips.com/video/5447/NVIDIA-Tegra-3-Fifth-Companion-Core
ModestMuse23 said:
A great reply to the initial post:
https://plus.google.com/100838276097451809262/posts/VDkV9XaJRGS
If you're into this stuff, it's a pretty interesting read.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
wynand32 said:
I'll read it, but he starts by saying that webOS performs without lag. Um, what?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Haha! He's mostly right, but as the owner of a TouchPad he probably should have kept WebOS off his list of those that "do it right".
Related
It will be possible?
well froyo is doing some problems to the devs.. i think it would be better to get froyo working since gingerbread will take 4 months
NO!
Minimum hardware requirements for Android 3.0 devices are: 1GHZ CPU, 512MB or RAM, displays from 3.5” and higher. (source)
beat me to it.
yea, considering the minimum system requirements for 3.0 I would have to say no. most Hero users cant even overclock past 695MHz so its a no go.
From what Im reading, theyre killing all custom UI with it too. no more Sense, no more Motoblur, no more nothing. just the new stock google UI that theyre working on.
I kinda see it as a good thing. the one problem with Android phones has been that the customization has been too vast. there needs to be more industry standards just like the iphone or we're going to run into phone wars that dont just involve iphone vs android.
I don't think that we won't be able to get Sense etc because that is the beauty of Android,freedom and customization.If we lose a little of both then...I don't know,I just don't want it to turn iPhoney!I think that they only will give a standard UI for apps so that we avoid the current situation,which is that every app has its own UI and there is no consistency.My opinion though...
If the minimum spec is 1Ghz for gingerbread, then all that news about fragmentation that google going on about is a load of rubbish!
I guess it will soon be the end of the road for the htc hero!
tweedie said:
If the minimum spec is 1Ghz for gingerbread, then all that news about fragmentation that google going on about is a load of rubbish!
I guess it will soon be the end of the road for the htc hero!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We will first starve to death and then google might face problems!Anyway...Microsoft gave similar specs for WP7 but I've already seen a ported version running on the Diamond!What I've learned here in XDA-Devs is that we can never say never!My opinion?We will see Gingerbread on the Hero but it will never run well or smooth enough...Unless we can change its chipset!
Sent from my HTC Hero using XDA App
Wouldn't the absence of 'HTC Sense' allow JIT to play an even greater role in boosting performance?
Re: Froyo
There's also a Dalvik JIT compiler that improves overall CPU-bound code performance by two to five times compared to version 2.1.
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Click to collapse
lost101 said:
Wouldn't the absence of 'HTC Sense' allow JIT to play an even greater role in boosting performance?
Re: Froyo
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nah...I'm sure they can develop some kind of patch to enable JIT with Sense like the ones here on XDA(right now I can remember Feeyo's and Villain's ones).
Will it be hard...
Hell yeah!!!!
But it isn't impossible just today some developers made ubuntu and Android 2.1 on HTC HD2
tolis626 said:
Nah...I'm sure they can develop some kind of patch to enable JIT with Sense like the ones here on XDA(right now I can remember Feeyo's and Villain's ones).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My point was that 'Sense' doesn't seem to benefit from JIT, and that 3.0 will have a superior UI making it unnecessary anyway. If the new UI isn't incredibly demanding (the reason for the 1ghz requirement cited?) and benefits from JIT, chances are that Hero can handle it.
Android 3.0 will also have a completely refreshed user interface. According to UnwiredView, the new UI will resemble the Cooliris-made photo gallery application that's on the Nexus One. It will feature animated transitions between apps and screens.
Google has hired Palm's former webOS user interface designer, Matias Duarte. His new position at Google is with the Android user experience team.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
h**p://tinyurl.com/39s9e3a
I've heard/read that ONLY honeycomb makes use of the dual core.
So what's the advantage of having a dual core phone running gingerbread?
Nvm I found some information.
Sry for makimg a new useless topic
Where did you find the information?
Please post the Link!
All of the information I've read shows that Ice Cream should be the build with this integrated.
It's somewhat baffling that it's taken this long considering that for the average phone user, how smooth the phone is plays a huge part in whether they like it or not.
iOS has had GPU UI acceleration since its inception, how have the Android team members let this slide? Is it simply because the implementation requires a massive structural re-write?
Tossing the 2D UI acceleration over to the GPU should theoretically increase the speed of the OS as well, since it frees up the CPU to focus on its own tasks.
MustWarnothers said:
iOS has had GPU UI acceleration since its inception, how have the Android team members let this slide? Is it simply because the implementation requires a massive structural re-write?
Tossing the 2D UI acceleration over to the GPU should theoretically increase the speed of the OS as well, since it frees up the CPU to focus on its own tasks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Caching is primarily what makes it so smooth on the iPhone, not GPU acceleration; though that helps a fair amount, also. The lack of heavy use of caching everything in the UI for what seems like all Android UIs is what has baffled me about Android UIs. Home screen launcher replacements like LauncherPro use it, and it makes everything nice and silky smooth. I've honestly been thinking that most UI designers for the hardware companies simply do not know what they are doing.
MustWarnothers said:
All of the information I've read shows that Ice Cream should be the build with this integrated.
It's somewhat baffling that it's taken this long considering that for the average phone user, how smooth the phone is plays a huge part in whether they like it or not.
iOS has had GPU UI acceleration since its inception, how have the Android team members let this slide? Is it simply because the implementation requires a massive structural re-write?
Tossing the 2D UI acceleration over to the GPU should theoretically increase the speed of the OS as well, since it frees up the CPU to focus on its own tasks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
it's not that simple...ios is missing a lot of features. i read that it doesn't support java and just object-oriented C++.
Since android was started, phone developers have pushed it in directions that Google didn't originally plan for. That's why the nexus s only had single core, and afaik, all the dual core phones have software on top of android to manage the dual core processing, which doesn't really do much for them. yes they're faster, but i think not as fast as they could/should be.
i'm assuming the next nexus will be a dual core, and with android that has support for them. if so, it'd blow all dual cores away to this point, because processor management is more efficient the lower in the stack it's handled.
however, what with the nexus s 4g being recently released, i'm not expecting the next nexus to be around anytime soon as G focus on tablets.
Since the SGS2 is so fast for web browsing and flash content, as well as UI, what type of magic do they do if they aren't altering the basic Android system? Does it involve using dual-core? How specific are the Samsung optimizations and are they low-level enough for Google to say this would be great in Ice Cream and thus steal that optimization from them? Is TouchWiz actually faster than stock Android? Or is that impossible since it is built on top of Android? Will the browser speed translate to other installed browsers, or is it specific to the stock browser? I really don't know how far Samsung or any other manufacturer can customize the software beyond just superficial skins and whether or not deep customizations change the system fundamentally and possibly break certain apps.
I didn't really investigate this issue deeply, but I think it works out like this:
Right now, the android sdk (2.3) provides no means to use more than one CPU core.
Still, multicore CPUs will increase performance because background processes can use CPU time on the core not being used by the running app.
This also applies to garbage collection (GC) which happens periodically (I guess you can trigger it manually too) whilst an app is running. With more than one core, the GC won't block the app which makes it feel "smoother".
I remember reading about Google's plans to improve multicore-support in android 2.4. It will take some time for existing apps to use it though (like it's happened with desktop applications).
Then just imagine the performance of the SGS II device with hardware acceleration support.
MustWarnothers said:
All of the information I've read shows that Ice Cream should be the build with this integrated.
It's somewhat baffling that it's taken this long considering that for the average phone user, how smooth the phone is plays a huge part in whether they like it or not.
iOS has had GPU UI acceleration since its inception, how have the Android team members let this slide? Is it simply because the implementation requires a massive structural re-write?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Since Honeycomb utilizes GPU for UI rendering, I guess it will be available on Ice Cream too.
Android is handicapped by the big range of hardware used by manufacturers. Some GPUs are simply too slow or have other issues which will make GPU acceleration fail. This is not an issue for Apple, because there is no hardware choice on iOS.
silverwolf0 said:
Since the SGS2 is so fast for web browsing and flash content, as well as UI, what type of magic do they do if they aren't altering the basic Android system? Does it involve using dual-core? How specific are the Samsung optimizations and are they low-level enough for Google to say this would be great in Ice Cream and thus steal that optimization from them? Is TouchWiz actually faster than stock Android? Or is that impossible since it is built on top of Android? Will the browser speed translate to other installed browsers, or is it specific to the stock browser? I really don't know how far Samsung or any other manufacturer can customize the software beyond just superficial skins and whether or not deep customizations change the system fundamentally and possibly break certain apps.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
All parts of android (2.3) are open sourced, so Samsung can customize anything they want. They don't have to release the changed version as open source though (except for the GPLed parts, like the kernel) - so we'll probably never know what they've been doing.
german wikipedia says that gingerbread 2.3.3 features dual-core support ...
Link it please, thats odd.
My German is bad as I only read it for a couple of year but here is the Wikipedia page http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Android_(Betriebssystem)
At the bottom you have "Dual-Core-Unterstützung" on 2.3.3 which means it support it.
But as always Wikipedia is never 100% correct so who know
I read that they will re-release a gingerbread version (2.4?) that will take advantage of Dual-core apps. So basically, they add dual-core support and it will also still be gingerbread but version 2.4 of android.
Come to think of it, they did the same thing with Eclair (2.0 and 2.1) already.
Hope this helps
I think they have already done that with "Gingerbread 2.3.3", Instead of calling v 2.4 GINGERBREAD as well, they made the changes in "Gingerbread" and gave it versioning 2.3.3.
Thats what it looks like all on Wikipedia pages. Highlights 2.3.3 as a Major release.
Yes, the wiki says that dual-cores are supported from 2.3.3 and it says too that dual-core-apps are supported on single-core smartphones! --> Thats an indication for real dual-core support!
I'm just waiting for when Android decides to implement GPU UI acceleration.
Even if apps are offered dual core support, if both of those cores are still working on UI animations instead of tossing it to the GPU, it seems like 3 steps forward, 2 steps back.
As I understand it, Gingerbread (2.3) offers limited dual-core support. If your phone has a 2nd core available, then it will move the Garbage Collector onto the 2nd core which means there will be a lot less lag in applications and games when the GC fires off to remove unused resources.
http:/ /developer.android.com/sdk/android-2.3-highlights.html
It's under the 'enhancements to games' section I believe.
Honeycomb (3.0) offers full UI hardware acceleration and makes full use of both cores - so wait for Ice Cream to come to phones and it will be fully supported.
I know that wikipedia isnt always right but if i assume that it is right this time it says that what you just wrote Xailter was integrated in 2.3 and real dual-core support in 2.3.3 :
2.3 features:
Linux-Kernel 2.6.35.7
Unterstützung von WebM
Unterstützung von HTML5 Audio [31]
Unterstützung von Google TV
Unterstützung von Near Field Communication
Parallele Garbage Collection für ruckelfreiere Animationen
verbesserte Integration von sozialen Netzwerken
Unterstützung von Gyroskopen (nicht zu verwechseln mit Bewegungssensoren) und anderen Sensoren (u.a. Barometer, Schwerkraftsensor)[32]
Integrierter SIP-Client für VoIP[33]
Integrierter Downloadmanager[33]
Unterstützung des Ext4-Dateisystems[34]
translated something like "parallel garbage collection for smoother animations"
while 2.3.3 features:
Dual-Core-Unterstützung
Unterstützung von Dual-Core-Apps auf Single-Core-Geräten
verbesserte Unterstützung der NFC-Technik
verbesserte Bluetooth-Unterstützung
kleinere Verbesserungen
which means dual-core support
support for dual-core apps on single-core-devices
improved support of nfc
improved support for bluetooth
minor improvements
if we can believe in what wikipedia says ... 2.3.3 features dual-core support
and i think it is true because it would just make sense to support the hardware that is releasing right now
source: de. wikipedia. org/wiki/Android_%28Betriebssystem%29#Versionsverlauf
sry for the spaces .. but i'm not allowed to post outside links
to the os, browsing and whatever? i don't know much about hardware acceleration but the little i do know methinks the gpu can be tapped more for less cycles on the cpu and less hit on the battery.
I'm not sure, but if it happens, it will be in a custom ROM.
Samsung seems to be doing it on their browsers.
e.g. on my galaxy tab (original 7"), the stock browser FLIES, obviously HW accelerated. Its magnitudes faster than dolphin on the same device, in fact its within touching distance of ipad1 speeds.
i know samsung took it upon themselves to make sure it was there. i'm just wondering if it can be tapped on tegra2's. i'm also think i'm seeing why gsII is a battery hog. the maii-400 gpu is 65nm. that's huge for a mobile phone.
Hardware acceleration really has to be done by the manufacturer. No android phones are hardware accelerated except for the Samsung galaxy phones cause they do a custom job. Ice cream sandwich is when hardware acceleration comes to android.
pukemon said:
i know samsung took it upon themselves to make sure it was there. i'm just wondering if it can be tapped on tegra2's. i'm also think i'm seeing why gsII is a battery hog. the maii-400 gpu is 65nm. that's huge for a mobile phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Great point I didn't know this till you said it.
I've been playing nova on my htc one x as well as transformer prime, problem is it gets laggy in some areas with full effects chainfire fix (no chainfire means no effects but no lag) however my gs3 plays it fine with chainfire and A 200 quid chinese tablet with dual core rockchip and quad mali400 with chainfire plays it full effects no lag???!!! And to help you understand this the antutu score on chinese tablet is 7560 and all tegra devices are just over 12500 so wtf?! I'm just so annoyed,
All devices running clean rooted ics no mods or tweaks only interactive governor
My nexus 7 plays nova3 with no lag at all...full effects
Plays fine on my prime also. No lag, full effects.
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using Tapatalk 2
motionmagic said:
Plays fine on my prime also. No lag, full effects.
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ditto here.
sent from my TF201.HTCEVOV.LGOV.KF.N8PSE using TapaTalk 2
deadlocked007 said:
Don't give us this bull****... Yes it may play without problem but it's not fully smooth. Runs like a 24 fps movie. Hell the loading times are abysmal. Demandarin I respect you for all the work you've done for us and how positive you've been but don't go as far as lying.... I should be able to run this game on my supposed top of the line tablet with a quad core processor without modifying anything at all. Yet I can't. Game experiences on this tablet have been horrible even with Tegra 3 optimized games.
Sorry if I'm coming out strong but I'm damned tired of this. I have to rma my tablet again just to be able to ota update. Really? Really? Can't even unlock for goodness sakes...
Sent from my PG86100 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thanks deadlocked, i thought i was going crazy here and ive been reading the forums of other users complaining. without tweaking anything llike going into development settings max 1 process kill all processes is a temp fix but it doesnt work that well, i shouldnt have to do all that, not sure why a cheap chinese tablet can do this yet an expensive tablet with tegra 3 cant get it right?
i respect the recognized developer above but i thought he was winding me up there as a developer of all people should know there are issues
question now is what can be done, why is this issue even here, how do we resolve this
mox123 said:
thanks deadlocked, i thought i was going crazy here and ive been reading the forums of other users complaining. without tweaking anything llike going into development settings max 1 process kill all processes is a temp fix but it doesnt work that well, i shouldnt have to do all that, not sure why a cheap chinese tablet can do this yet an expensive tablet with tegra 3 cant get it right?
i respect the recognized developer above but i thought he was winding me up there as a developer of all people should know there are issues
question now is what can be done, why is this issue even here, how do we resolve this
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
He isn't a dev.... & well.. I'll end there.
As for Tegra 3 ULP Geforce GPU (with 8 spectacular cores)... it isn't a powerhouse GPU. It lacks raw power compared to Mali 400 (and basically all other GPUs)... however, it does have those "oozing" special effects that Nvidia patented.
Also, with single I/O memory controller... with the lack of bandwidth being channeled through during GRAPHIC intensive games... it can have some "FPS" issues.
deadlocked007 said:
Don't give us this bull****... Yes it may play without problem but it's not fully smooth. Runs like a 24 fps movie. Hell the loading times are abysmal. Demandarin I respect you for all the work you've done for us and how positive you've been but don't go as far as lying.... I should be able to run this game on my supposed top of the line tablet with a quad core processor without modifying anything at all. Yet I can't. Game experiences on this tablet have been horrible even with Tegra 3 optimized games.
Sorry if I'm coming out strong but I'm damned tired of this. I have to rma my tablet again just to be able to ota update. Really? Really? Can't even unlock for goodness sakes...
Sent from my PG86100 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What's to lie about? Nova3 and all other games do play fine on my Nexus 7. The framerate not slow either. Like I said, it plays great on my NEXUS 7. now for Prime, Nova3 seems to like to crash on mines. So as of now, I honestly don't know how it plays on my prime. But I do have it for my Nexus 7. Even with full effects, nexus 7 handles it with ease. Prime has software shortcomings that is likely what you are experiencing. Plus you have to REMEMBER THIS, EVERYONE PRIME BEHAVES DIFFERENTLY. SO IF THE NEXT MAN SAYS THE GAME WORKS FINE ON HIS PRIME, THEN YOU HAVE TO TAKE HIS WORD FOR IT. IF YOU DONT, PEOPLE WONT BELIEVE YOU EITHER. JUST LIKE NOT EVERYONE PRIME BEHAVES THE SAME AFTER AN UPDATE.
PEOPLE NEED TO STOP ASSUMING THAT JUST BECAUSE YOUR DEVICE SEEMS to Run the game slower, everyone else's must also. PEOPLE ASSUME TO DAMN MUCH UP HERE. These devices are not all the same, unfortunately.
I have to agee with demandarim. I have a prime with 0 wifi issues, unlike most.. also I have mine rooted and clocked to 1.6ghz, also with no issues at all.. Since alot of people have issues with those I agree that no two prime are 100% equil
And if it runs well on other Tegra3 devices like the Nexus 7 .. Then it might be a issues with the Asus software.
I know were not even on a 3.x.x kernel yet.. we have 2.6.39.4.. even that might be an issue..
There is a lot of reasons youre's might be slow.. You can wait for Asus to release new firmware that might resolve you're issues, or you can load a custom rom, that is useing different firmware for you're hardware that is more based around performance.
Everyone here is willing to take there Desktop PC, load the latest drivers for there screencard or what ever, imagen you had to wait for a new release to update the driver? Like complaining Ubuntu 10.2 is craps compared to Ubuntu 11.1cause it doesn't run well on you're Alienware Desktop.. No.. you update the it... cause it fixes it! So if you would update you're out of the box Desktop for 25 more FPS, then THATS WHY WE BOUGHT ANDROID AND NOT APPEL... cause with a little tweaking its better..
appel is like flying business class.. its just fine.. Android/linux is like flying first class, you just get the bolts and spanner on you way in to fasten your seat.. so with a little tweak is better, or you fail to tighten the bolts, and then you complain on XDA forums
I think you should also remember that your chinese tablet has an 800x480 screen, not 1280x800. That's a HUGE different in pixel count, so a slower/cheaper SOC can easily push 30+ frames a second to that screen.
Its just like all other Gameloft games, they are not optimized at all to run with QuadCores or Tegra3 devices. Order and Chaos has the same issues, it doesn't have mind blowing effects and still runs at 24ish fps. Hell even Asphalt 6 doesn't feel like running at 60 fps. While other games with far, far better graphics run smooth like butter even when connected to the TV.
Parastie said:
I think you should also remember that your chinese tablet has an 800x480 screen, not 1280x800. That's a HUGE different in pixel count, so a slower/cheaper SOC can easily push 30+ frames a second to that screen.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
chinese tabet is 1280x800 so its not any less,
mox123 said:
chinese tabet is 1280x800 so its not any less,
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Really? Which one do you have?
Parastie said:
Really? Which one do you have?
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latest Window N101 it also has a chinese name yuanduo n101 or something like that, for 200 bones its a good deal, capacitive multi touch 10 point ips screen, ics 4.0.4. rooted etc. hd screen and plays 720p files smoothly, not tested 1080p it has a dual core rockchip 3066 and quad core mali 400 gpu tablet itself is really nice, i thought the asus would have have performed better than the cheap chinese one, but obviously not in this case, its probably gameloft being lazy and not optimizing for tegra as all tegra games run really smooth even in high activity scenes, large environments, etc.
still peed off thogh
just figured i'd chime in again (because of the controversy,lol)...
i was running androwook 2.1 with motley's lite kernel, o'ced to 1.8
the last time i checked out NOVA3(actually the only time i played it).
i went through a couple of levels and didn't have any issues on my Prime.
lately, i have been running team EOS Jelly Bean, and benchmarks have been down,
even from stock ROM, so i haven't tried to run it lately.
i have been playing Riptide GP tho, and it is still smokin fast!
Since upgrading to JB and updating Dead Trigger, I have only noticed one hiccup right when loading a level, and then no more lag through the rest of the level. Before the update and on ICS the game lagged like crazy for the first 30 seconds then finally cleared up. I'm not sure which one fixed it, but perhaps you should check out the JB rom as well...
johanjonker said:
I have to agee with demandarim. I have a prime with 0 wifi issues, unlike most.. also I have mine rooted and clocked to 1.6ghz, also with no issues at all.. Since alot of people have issues with those I agree that no two prime are 100% equil
And if it runs well on other Tegra3 devices like the Nexus 7 .. Then it might be a issues with the Asus software.
I know were not even on a 3.x.x kernel yet.. we have 2.6.39.4.. even that might be an issue..
There is a lot of reasons youre's might be slow.. You can wait for Asus to release new firmware that might resolve you're issues, or you can load a custom rom, that is useing different firmware for you're hardware that is more based around performance.
Everyone here is willing to take there Desktop PC, load the latest drivers for there screencard or what ever, imagen you had to wait for a new release to update the driver? Like complaining Ubuntu 10.2 is craps compared to Ubuntu 11.1cause it doesn't run well on you're Alienware Desktop.. No.. you update the it... cause it fixes it! So if you would update you're out of the box Desktop for 25 more FPS, then THATS WHY WE BOUGHT ANDROID AND NOT APPEL... cause with a little tweaking its better..
appel is like flying business class.. its just fine.. Android/linux is like flying first class, you just get the bolts and spanner on you way in to fasten your seat.. so with a little tweak is better, or you fail to tighten the bolts, and then you complain on XDA forums
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1. Linux Kernel 3.1.1 vs 2.6.39.4 hardly matters.....
Perhaps you didn't know but Linux Kernel 3+ is really 2.6.40 but Linus Torvald simply renamed it to Linux Kernel 3.0...
The changes between the two kernel is minimal (of course, higher is always better in theory.. but here... it is extremely minimal)
If people want to discuss kernel & drivers..... and need someone to blame for multiple issues we have currently... look towards Nvidia FIRST & Asus 2nd (Asus is customer of Nvidia... and they are binded to their work.. sadly)
2. Tegra 3 SoC... no matter how much.. umm.. someone tells you... IS NOT A POWER SoC. It focuses mainly on battery performance (thus the 4+1 technology)... although.. sadly, it doesn't really perform that well in this category either if you look at smartphone sector (S4 HTC One X > Tegra 3 HTC One X).
Anyways, especially with single I/O memory controller, poor kernel/driver integration by Nvidia & Asus (this is assumption), and not very powerful GPU (yes, in terms of raw power... Tegra 3 is crap compared to other GPUs)..... IT CAN HAVE ISSUES during Graphic Intensive Games. IT CAN... as in... if we take Prime for example.... it behaves very radically from device to device.... thus... some will be unfortunate & some very fortunate.
3. I doubt Google wants Android to be portrayed as "tweaker" device. Google's trying their hardest to appeal to the mass public with Nexus 7..... Btw, all the updates & etc you speak of with Desktop.... going from Ubuntu 10.2 to Ubuntu 11.1 are OFFICIAL support. Custom ROMs are not....
deadlocked007 said:
Don't give us this bull****... Yes it may play without problem but it's not fully smooth. Runs like a 24 fps movie. Hell the loading times are abysmal. Demandarin I respect you for all the work you've done for us and how positive you've been but don't go as far as lying.... I should be able to run this game on my supposed top of the line tablet with a quad core processor without modifying anything at all. Yet I can't. Game experiences on this tablet have been horrible even with Tegra 3 optimized games.
Sorry if I'm coming out strong but I'm damned tired of this. I have to rma my tablet again just to be able to ota update. Really? Really? Can't even unlock for goodness sakes...
Sent from my PG86100 using xda app-developers app
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This. I couldnt agree more. I was looking for NOVA 3 lag fixes on my Nexus 7 and came across similar posts stating how smooth the game is. It's not smooth. The frame rate is ****. Seems like all of Gamelofts recent titles, lag to hell on Tegra 3. (Amazing Spiderman, Modern Combat 3, Nova 3). Look at videos of Nova 3 running on the Galaxy S3. Now that is smooth.
cokeblack said:
This. I couldnt agree more. I was looking for NOVA 3 lag fixes on my Nexus 7 and came across similar posts stating how smooth the game is. It's not smooth. The frame rate is ****. Seems like all of Gamelofts recent titles, lag to hell on Tegra 3. (Amazing Spiderman, Modern Combat 3, Nova 3). Look at videos of Nova 3 running on the Galaxy S3. Now that is smooth.
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Yup they all lag on my N7 and Prime, although there is some hope: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1780587 hopefully its true they are working on optimizations for the Tegra 3 platform.
that is bs
demandarin said:
My nexus 7 plays nova3 with no lag at all...full effects
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Dude that is b.s.No offence.you can't install chainfire3D,hence no full effects.TEGRA 3 DOES NOT GET FULL EFFECTS ON NOVA 3.You don't see fire and smoke on the building at the right side in the first level, before you jump off the building you crashed into.Secondly it does lag very badly especially in multiplayer,I am on 620mhz GPU overclock with 1.6ghz CPU with smoothrom 4.1 android 4.1.2
I don't know about Nova 3, but I have to agree that Wild Blood for example is not smooth at all on my Prime.
Backstab on the other hand seems much smoother.
I'll try Nova 3 and let you know. ( Using Latest Energy Rom).
Yes I am noob, but I would like to learn more, so here I am, long time looker, joining the ranks. I tried searching but all I found was 2-3 year old stuff or non specific answers.
*Edit* CRAP SORRY, saw that questions shouldn't be posted in general. Such a noob move sorry...
I am currently loading old school gaming roms on my phone and soon to be tablet. Years ago I had n64 roms and they were laggy, I figured years later they would run without a hitch, not so much.
Here is what I am running.
Verizon Droid RAZR HD
Micro SD (class 4) 32GB
Snapdragon S4 MSM8960
CPU 1.5 GHz dual-core Krait
GPU Adreno 225
Memory 1GB Dual-channel, 500 MHz LPDDR2 RAM
I am running the standard vanilla rom so it's stock with Verizons bloatware, so I now a bit of lag could rest there.
I am looking to buy a cheaper android tablet that will run Ps1/N64 games without a hitch if possible. I guess what I am wondering is what controls ROM's lag, is it the GPU? Memory? Processor? The ROM/Program itself? I am wondering what hardware (if any) runs these without major issues.
Thanks a ton guys, very happy to help join the ranks. If I missed a thread that covers this please point me in the right direction!
Bump please
Guess I'll try again
Millni6 said:
I guess what I am wondering is what controls ROM's lag, is it the GPU? Memory? Processor? The ROM/Program itself? I am wondering what hardware (if any) runs these without major issues.
Thanks a ton guys, very happy to help join the ranks. If I missed a thread that covers this please point me in the right direction!
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In all honesty it is a combination of all the factors you mentioned above. Because mobile processors work on a SoC (System on a Chip) design model if you have a weak CPU all the others components on the chip such as RAM and GPU will be weak as well, likewise a strong CPU will most often be coupled with powerful components increasing performance. That being said emulating games is mainly GPU and some CPU intensive of a task. Also the ROM app itself can be a major factor because the games are not being run on there native optimized hardware (Such as the N64) game performance can surfer, a poorly optimized game emulator will lead to poor playback of emulated games. As far as hardware that runs these without issue my Galaxy S3 and Nexus 10 have ran whatever emulator ROM I throw at them. Also keep in mind some game ROMs just don't work or are poorly optimized so no matter what emulator or hardware you have they will have problems with lag.
Sent from my Nexus 10 using xda premium
shimp208 said:
In all honesty it is a combination of all the factors you mentioned above. Because mobile processors work on a SoC (System on a Chip) design model if you have a weak CPU all the others components on the chip such as RAM and GPU will be weak as well, likewise a strong CPU will most often be coupled with powerful components increasing performance. That being said emulating games is mainly GPU and some CPU intensive of a task. Also the ROM app itself can be a major factor because the games are not being run on there native optimized hardware (Such as the N64) game performance can surfer, a poorly optimized game emulator will lead to poor playback of emulated games. As far as hardware that runs these without issue my Galaxy S3 and Nexus 10 have ran whatever emulator ROM I throw at them. Also keep in mind some game ROMs just don't work or are poorly optimized so no matter what emulator or hardware you have they will have problems with lag.
Sent from my Nexus 10 using xda premium
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Wish I could give you more props for answering that, thanks a ton!!
A few follows ups. Isn't my Razr HD pretty close to the same specs as your S3 (short of yours has 2GB of ram) or now are we talking about the fact that I have the stock bloatware of Verizon?
So something like a Tegra 3 would work perfectly fine correct?
Your last sentence makes me worried. For instance it seems like Golden Eye, Super Smash Bros and Final Final Fantasy 7 all seem to hit small short lag spikes with audio and the N64s hit preformance spikes. It's subtle but enough to be annoying.
Millni6 said:
Wish I could give you more props for answering that, thanks a ton!!
A few follows ups. Isn't my Razr HD pretty close to the same specs as your S3 (short of yours has 2GB of ram) or now are we talking about the fact that I have the stock bloatware of Verizon?
So something like a Tegra 3 would work perfectly fine correct?
Your last sentence makes me worried. For instance it seems like Golden Eye, Super Smash Bros and Final Final Fantasy 7 all seem to hit small short lag spikes with audio and the N64s hit preformance spikes. It's subtle but enough to be annoying.
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You are correct the Razr HD is very close in specs to the US version of my Galaxy S3 apart from the 2GB or RAM, the 2GB of RAM can help performance but won't cause a massive difference in performance. Additionally the Verizon bloat will chew up resources and depending on what other applications you have running the background can take away resources from the emulator. In general carrier bloatware will slow down the entire device making it seem sluggish. Since you mentioned you were looking to get a cheaper Android tablet to play emulated games on I would definitely check out the Nexus 7, it has good gaming performance for emulated games and gaming performance in general. And like I said previously some games will always just lag or have jumps in the audio and can be annoying unfortunately that part of the problem with playing emulated games.
shimp208 said:
You are correct the Razr HD is very close in specs to the US version of my Galaxy S3 apart from the 2GB or RAM, the 2GB of RAM can help performance but won't cause a massive difference in performance. Additionally the Verizon bloat will chew up resources and depending on what other applications you have running the background can take away resources from the emulator. In general carrier bloatware will slow down the entire device making it seem sluggish. Since you mentioned you were looking to get a cheaper Android tablet to play emulated games on I would definitely check out the Nexus 7, it has good gaming performance for emulated games and gaming performance in general. And like I said previously some games will always just lag or have jumps in the audio and can be annoying unfortunately that part of the problem with playing emulated games.
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You sir are a pro, I think I am going to buy the Acer Iconia 7 A110, it has a Tergra 3 just like the Nexus and is on sale refurbed at Walmart for 140.0
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Acer-Icon...an-Operating-System-Gray-Refurbished/23662167
Millni6 said:
You sir are a pro, I think I am going to buy the Acer Iconia 10.1 A210, it has a Tergra 3 just like the Nexus and is on sale refurbed at Walmart for 180.
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Acer-Icon...13700444333861315661&affillinktype=10&veh=aff
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Thank you for the compliment and that is defiantly a good choice, my only piece of advice when buying devices refurbished is ask them if you can try the exact device your gonna buy before you pay for it. I have known several people who have bought refurbished electronics from stores where the guarantee said the device was fully working but when they got home it either didn't power on or something else didn't function properly.
shimp208 said:
Thank you for the compliment and that is defiantly a good choice, my only piece of advice when buying devices refurbished is ask them if you can try the exact device your gonna buy before you pay for it. I have known several people who have bought refurbished electronics from stores where the guarantee said the device was fully working but when they got home it either didn't power on or something else didn't function properly.
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Yup for sure, they have a 15 day return period, so for whatever reason it does not work, I'll return it. I also saw an Amazon review where they were talking about n64/ps1 roms seems to me like the guy got them to work without any lag issues.