Okay, so I've seen these issues dealt with separately, but never in conjunction. Unfortunately, I am having both in conjunction.
Starting with a fresh Droid Eris, I used a one-click root to allow superuser permissions.
From there, I flashed CM7. Along with many other users, I ran into the issue where I had no data or voice signal.
I'll let you know here, that I've wiped EVERY time I did anything. This is NOT a wipe issue.
I flashed the newest radio... No luck. So, I went through clockwork's recovery and reverted back to the original 2.1 ROM. Still no luck on the signal issue. At this point, I decided to reflash CM7 and try to deal with the issue through ADB.
This is where things went wrong. The load for CM7 corrupted (I'm assuming) and gave me a nice case of Bootloop. Thinking everything was fine, (Assuming I'd do a battery pull and just go back to 2.1) I booted into the original Android recovery and NOW the damn track ball will no longer make selections. It will scroll, but not select.
Here's my question: Seeing as I can not boot fully to allow usb debugging, and I can not recover through Android (Thank you, trackball), is there ANY way to reflash the original RUU through ADB?
Thus far, I can't get passed the obvious "This device is not ready," prompt.
Any help is greatly appreciated.
FYI, adb is available when the custom recovery is booted.
what that means is that with the recovery booted you can:
1) drop a smallish (say, less than 100 MB) ROM file into /cache (e.g. "adb push")
2) create an Android command file (/cache/recovery/command) with a single line that points at the ROM file as an update
3) do a "adb shell reboot recovery"
This will cause the subsequent boot to the recovery to automatically install the ROM file you dropped in cache.
Voila. No trackball needed.
The syntax for the command file (/cache/recovery/command) will be a single line:
--update_package=CACHE:your_ROM_file_name_goes_here.zip
See this post for an expanded explanation.
cheers
[ Edit ]
Note that the above is a thumbnail sketch which requires you to fill in the blanks. For instance, wiping /data and /cache and flashing packages after the main ROM. Cumbersome, but you only need to do it once. Once you have a rooted ROM installed, you should flash a trackball-free version of the recovery so you don't need this method for every ROM you install. Instructions for that (using "flash_image" via adb) can be found elsewhere.
Scott,
Whoa! You got a lot going on there...
Okay, I don't have all of the answers here for you, but I know enough to ask a few questions that we'll need a clarification on.
1. Can you tell us your HBOOT version and whether its S-ON or S-OFF?
2. You mentioned that you've used ClockworkMod (not good , but maybe not terrible)...you also have mentioned using/having Amon_RA custom recovery. Which custom recovery do you have currently installed and can you boot into said recovery?
3. By the way, I think the voice/data signal thing is fixable--it sounds familiar to me, but I don't know the answer right off-hand and this is not your primary issue at the moment.
4. You should be able to run the RUU to restore 2.1 back to your phone. It doesn't require a working custom recovery running and/or adb. Although you might simply be asking if you can flash a ROM through adb, then the answer is yes, you can. Although you will need custom recovery running to make sure its adb server is running and that, of course, require USB connectivity (alluding to your "This device is not ready." message).
5. Usually, installing HTC Sync will install the USB drivers necessary for you to use adb. If that doesn't work for you, PM me with your email address and I'll send you about 10MBs worth of USB drivers I've collected over the last year that might help you with this issue.
6. Lastly, there is a version of Amon_RA's custom recovery available that does not require the use of the trackball. You're not really in a position to flash/install that at this point unless you have the S-OFF engineering bootloader.
I'll hold-off with additional info pending your responses to the above.
Cheers!
edit: trumped by the Master himself, LOL! [I knew you'd be along sometime soon, bftb0 ]
scary alien said:
Scott,
Whoa! You got a lot going on there...
Okay, I don't have all of the answers here for you, but I know enough to ask a few questions that we'll need a clarification on.
1. Can you tell us your HBOOT version and whether its S-ON or S-OFF?
2. You mentioned that you've used ClockworkMod (not good , but maybe not terrible)...you also have mentioned using/having Amon_RA custom recovery. Which custom recovery do you have currently installed and can you boot into said recovery?
3. By the way, I think the voice/data signal thing is fixable--it sounds familiar to me, but I don't know the answer right off-hand and this is not your primary issue at the moment.
4. You should be able to run the RUU to restore 2.1 back to your phone. It doesn't require a working custom recovery running and/or adb. Although you might simply be asking if you can flash a ROM through adb, then the answer is yes, you can. Although you will need custom recovery running to make sure its adb server is running and that, of course, require USB connectivity (alluding to your "This device is not ready." message).
5. Usually, installing HTC Sync will install the USB drivers necessary for you to use adb. If that doesn't work for you, PM me with your email address and I'll send you about 10MBs worth of USB drivers I've collected over the last year that might help you with this issue.
6. Lastly, there is a version of Amon_RA's custom recovery available that does not require the use of the trackball. You're not really in a position to flash/install that at this point unless you have the S-OFF engineering bootloader.
I'll hold-off with additional info pending your responses to the above.
Cheers!
edit: trumped by the Master himself, LOL! [I knew you'd be along sometime soon, bftb0 ]
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yup bftb0 is a beast at these things, lol
I have just gotten myself a SG2, my first Android device.
I probably wouldn't want to root, at least so early, if it weren't for Root Call Blocker Pro which I want/need to install.
So I wanted to ask a couple of related questions:
1. Is there a way of rooting without losing all the apps + settings? If not, can you recommend a could backup app?
2. Could someone please point me to the EASIEST step-by-step guide on how to root a SG2? I have found a couple of threads but am not sure if they are the most up-to-date/best/most appropriate for a novice.
3. Will I be able to apply the official SG2 updates from Samsung after rooting? (OK, so that was three questions....)
Thanks!
hduty said:
I have just gotten myself a SG2, my first Android device.
I probably wouldn't want to root, at least so early, if it weren't for Root Call Blocker Pro which I want/need to install.
So I wanted to ask a couple of related questions:
1. Is there a way of rooting without losing all the apps + settings?
Should not wipe
If not, can you recommend a could backup app?
Titanium backup Pro.
2. Could someone please point me to the EASIEST step-by-step guide on how to root a SG2? I have found a couple of threads but am not sure if they are the most up-to-date/best/most appropriate for a novice.
Root + CWM the one the majority use .
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1103399
3. Will I be able to apply the official SG2 updates from Samsung after rooting? (OK, so that was three questions....)
Possible usually .
jje
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hduty said:
2. Could someone please point me to the EASIEST step-by-step guide on how to root a SG2? I have found a couple of threads but am not sure if they are the most up-to-date/best/most appropriate for a novice.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is what you need - failsafe
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1126522
Hi everyone. I also have a question regarding stock rom. I know that you'll say I am an idiot but stock rom is deodexed, right?
Sent from my GT-I9100
Thanks for the replies!
@B3311
Now THAT is detailed!
A follow up question though:
Exactly how does this rooting work under the hood? Why do we need to look for a compatible file that we then use to replace.... what?
Octavius69 said:
Hi everyone. I also have a question regarding stock rom. I know that you'll say I am an idiot but stock rom is deodexed, right?
Sent from my GT-I9100
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Stock rom directly from samsung is odexed.
hduty said:
Thanks for the replies!
@B3311
Now THAT is detailed!
A follow up question though:
Exactly how does this rooting work under the hood? Why do we need to look for a compatible file that we then use to replace.... what?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Rooting using CF-root replaces the phones kernel (core of the OS) with a modified one, with clockworkmod recovery (nandroid backup, etc), it also includes insecure adb (adb that can run as root not just standard user) and copy's the superuser apk to the system dir and sets permissions.
This is all done via a special initramfs attached to an otherwise stock kernel.
why would you want to root and then use OTA stock roms?
If you find you can't get OTA stock updates after a root (i.e. if Samsung decide to utilise some mad kernel reset counter ban hammer) then simply check XDA where I guarantee the OTA stcks will appear pretty quickly!
Things to consider:
1. Rooting is very very good for numerous reasons that can be found everywhere on XDA - and google.
2. You can replace the kernel for root but continue to use stock rom (and use a jig to replace the reset counters) for pretty much stock functionality.
3. If you root and don't like what you get (i.e. you're mental) then it is just as easy to replace all factory rom/kernel information (which are always available in the original development thread) but you should invest in a jig (from ebay) so you can reset the counters (you can do this via software but I find a jig far simpler).
What JJEgan said.
Rooting won't lose your apps. Titanium Backup Pro is the best way to go.
Install Kies, exit Kies, open Odin, phone in download mode + plug it in, don't touch any of the Odin settings, load "PDA" with chainfire's kernel -> go!
It's really straightforward, but it can be a little nerve wracking the first time.
Thanks a lot guys!
I just rooted, and it "only" took me about 15 min including the downloading of the various files (still way more though than the 30 sec. it should take according to the Chainfire post!! ).
@m4rshall's summary made it clear that the steps are really very few and simple, because when you read the other posts, it seems like a much more complex process due to their size, though they are absolutely necessary to get all the details.
Some follow up questions:
1. What would I need to do if I wanted to the original, factory state?
Not that I'm planning to, but in case I notice some issue that makes me decide to go back (I read in that loooong thread that some people noticed slower connections after rooting??)?
2. From what I've gathered, the yellow exclamation mark at boot is purely "cosmetic" and does not effect in any way at all the performance of the device. Correct?
3. The USB jig: exactly what does it do?? How does it do its magic?? How is it different from a normal cable? Are they only used for Android rooting?
Thanks again!
hduty said:
Thanks a lot guys!
1. What would I need to do if I wanted to the original, factory state?
flash your original rom via odin
Not that I'm planning to, but in case I notice some issue that makes me decide to go back (I read in that loooong thread that some people noticed slower connections after rooting??)?
nonsense
2. From what I've gathered, the yellow exclamation mark at boot is purely "cosmetic" and does not effect in any way at all the performance of the device. Correct?
Yes USB jig will remove it
3. The USB jig: exactly what does it do?? How does it do its magic?? How is it different from a normal cable? Are they only used for Android rooting?
Nothing to do with rooting it was developed to recover from failed download mode .
Details are
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1068522
jje
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks JJEgan!
One last question: I already figured out that superuser lists all apps that have root access. But what does CWM do?
hduty said:
Thanks JJEgan!
One last question: I already figured out that superuser lists all apps that have root access. But what does CWM do?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Clockworkmod recovery is a replacement recovery, it allows you to preform full device snapshot backups, to allow you to restore your phone to any point in time.
Allows you to flash CWM compatible zips.
Mount your SD to a computer while in recovery to copy things to it.
so i have the i777 and i rooted using a guide on the android central forum
basically i downloaded kies, odin, cwm, and superoneclick
i put the cwm.tar file through odin, and than ran superoneclick, and i was rooted pretty easily
i than downloaded rom manager and through there i flashed CWM. I tried to make a back up using rom manager but that failed, no biggie i hear other people have the same problem. I boot up into CWM using rom manager and it says stuff like "failed to verify whole file signature"
im not sure if this means i rooted incorrectly?
i made a back up just fine using CWM. However i found out this stuff about flash increments and how i flashed a custom CWM kernal or something (sorry my definitions in this subject are still noob)
i decided i want to get rid of the yellow triangle + i9100 message every boot, no biggie but i am here to learn and i figure might as well if i can. I read a couple threads here and im not sure if this is my answer but i think it is please advise
my plan is to go back completely as if i never rooted and than root by using a stock rom/kernal so i dont get the error triangle message as well as the incorrect international i9100 display
i think this is my solution
"2b.) How to root by flashing Entropy512's Return/Unbrick to Stock, Kernel + Rooted System Package from the command line using Heimdall (Linux and Mac OS)
* Tested on Linux, should work on Mac OS
* Download and install the latest version of Heimdall Command Line for your operating system from here. (Latest version 1.3.1 at this writing.)
* Download Entropy512's Return/Unbrick to Stock, Kernel + Rooted System Package from here. Extract the PDA.tar file from this package to a directory on your hard disk drive, then extract the two component files from the tar - zImage and factoryfs.img.
* Place zImage and factoryfs.img both in the directory where you have the Heimdall command line executable, and enter the following at the command prompt:
Code:
heimdall flash --kernel zImage --factoryfs factoryfs.img
* Reboot the phone. Success. You're Rooted.
"
i am under the impression that if i flash the .tar file that is 200+mb (why so big) that i will be RE ROOTED and COMPLETELY stock, therefore no error message and no international thing popping up
also, no more flash counter increments ? << this one is also important as this is one major reason i want to re root
im not really sure but i think that by flashing this new .tar it will over ride my custom.tar file that i do not want any more, i dont know how to get rid of it so this is the only thing i can think of
im worried because i dont know if i have to UNROOT before i install entropys thing or if it will just over ride
thanks so much to any one who can give me advice
Really the best instructions are in creepncrawly's write up on how to return to stock. It covers any question you could have:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1313659
And for doing it right:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1311081
Plus new tools:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1367319
The write ups he does are top notch and should be mandatory reading for first time visitors.
The file is so big because it contains the entire android os.
The issues you're having in cwm sound like clockworkmod needs to be reflashed.
The triangle will be removed simply by the stock kernel being replaced. The flash counter as of now can only be reset by a usb jig ~ less than $10.
Though a few have reported returning the phone for warranty issues and they did not check the flash counter.
The only way the flash counter is tripped is by using pc Odin to flash a non stock kernel.
Sent from my páhhōniē
ok thanks for the help, tomorow im gona read the links you posted thoroughly but i was wondering
if i flash a stock kernal, than how am i rooted
i am not even really sure what "roots" my phone but i thought that it was installing CWM because its a recovery tool which allows more options "superuser"
thanks again! cant wait to waste all day tom reading more about rooting
DroidBehavior said:
ok thanks for the help, tomorow im gona read the links you posted thoroughly but i was wondering
if i flash a stock kernal, than how am i rooted
i am not even really sure what "roots" my phone but i thought that it was installing CWM because its a recovery tool which allows more options "superuser"
thanks again! cant wait to waste all day tom reading more about rooting
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There's a stock plus root package. One of the best ways to root in my opinion.
Root means installing SuperUser.apk, su, and busybox. That's it. The stock + root package has those already included, but also gives you the bone stock kernel.
You install a custom kernel to, among other things, get ClockworkMod Recovery.
DroidBehavior said:
ok thanks for the help, tomorow im gona read the links you posted thoroughly but i was wondering
if i flash a stock kernal, than how am i rooted
i am not even really sure what "roots" my phone but i thought that it was installing CWM because its a recovery tool which allows more options "superuser"
thanks again! cant wait to waste all day tom reading more about rooting
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
in reality, 'rooting' your phone is nothing more than placing 2 files on the /system (only one is really needed, since you can download Superuser from the market)
what happens is this:
android version release (say 2.3.5)
extremely smart people find way to exploit a memory hole in the OS, and create a 'rooting' method. what this method does is exploit that hole, which allows for a 'temp root' while it injects the needed files for root
needed files for root:
/system/bin/su <- this is the binary that allows you to retain root access
/system/app/Superuser.apk
without root access, /system is a read-only partition. utilizing the exploit, it will create temp root, then remount the /system partition as read/write, allowing your rooting tool to inject the required files into /system
rooting actually has nothing to do with the device at a true hardware level. it is all within the OS itself. anything outside the OS (recovery, boot, bootloaders, etc) dont get 'rooted' because root is only access to the /system within the OS
samsungs have this awesome ability to be easily rooted via CWM. its extremely easy with ODIN or heimdall to flash recovery/new kernel with recovery built in, and use a cwm zip file to inject the needed files into /system rather than relying on an exploit to do it for you.
its a common misconception that i hate to see when people associate rooting with access to anything outside the OS itself.
'i am having problems flashing this rom/kernel/mod in cwm'
'are you sure you are rooted? try re-rooting'
asinine logic...to say the least
^^
That needs to be stickied in every android forum on xda.
Sent from my páhhōniē
ok im back, i read a lot of the guides n a lot of pages and i successfully rooted using entropys 2a method return to stock + root
now i have a 2-3 second delay in my home button, and an additional 1 second delay when i turn my phone ion with the power button to show my display
i also added CWM by using the android terminal and that worked
but im regretting all this because of the delay, my error message is gone so thats good but now i have a delay
what could be the problem? i dont remember any one mentioning this issue and if im the only one than i dont know what to do, also i noticed the flash counter is still at 1 so i know i did everything right
DroidBehavior said:
ok im back, i read a lot of the guides n a lot of pages and i successfully rooted using entropys 2a method return to stock + root
now i have a 2-3 second delay in my home button, and an additional 1 second delay when i turn my phone ion with the power button to show my display
i also added CWM by using the android terminal and that worked
but im regretting all this because of the delay, my error message is gone so thats good but now i have a delay
what could be the problem? i dont remember any one mentioning this issue and if im the only one than i dont know what to do, also i noticed the flash counter is still at 1 so i know i did everything right
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sounds like you still have reading to do. And kudos to you for taking what they said as constructive criticism.
The flash counter can only be reset by a usb jig. Mobile Tech videos make some very good quality ones.
The delay from the home button is due to the vlingo app shortcut being tied to the home button (double tap home button) so it's waiting to see if you hit it twice before it takes you to the home screen. Cusom roms remove the vlingo app from being there which helps cut down on the delay.
But you may notice it more since what you did. And you should. By adding cwm you likely flashed Entropy512's kernel. Which is an awesome kernel. One of the ways that kernel helps battery life is by setting the cpu govener to conservative. It slows the cpu from jumping too high too quick. That explains why you may have not noticed the delay before you did anything. As well as the delay from unlocking the phone.
For me the extra battery life is worth it. If you don't like the delay one of the easier ways to set it back to ondemand (stock) is to use the app SetCpu:
https://market.android.com/details?id=com.mhuang.overclocking&hl=en
Hope that explains everything.
Sent from my páhhōniē
yeah that makes perfect sense thanks for the explanation
right now i installed miui and i ****ing love it! the interface is so smooth and sexy its like iphone spliced with android
minimalistic ftw
the interface was so much smoother i ran quadrant but the score was the same heh, but still its impressively smooth
Hi all,
I'm trying to install ClockworkMod with no luck. I'm getting the "Signature verification failed" error.
I have a Samsung Galaxy s2 9100M (bell/virgin version). Currently running everything stock except that I manually gained root access, compiled su binary and placed it in /system/bin (with appropriate permissions of course). I also installed busybox from source. So my phone is fully rooted, the superuser app works fine as well (used chainsdd su).
Now an obvious option is to use Odin and flash CWM recovery. However, I'm running Linux, so no Odin (I'd also like to avoid using a VM). What's the alternative? The stock recovery will not allow me to flash unsigned files.
Please feel free to provide complex solutions. I'm a professional software engineer with extensive unix/linux knowledge. I'm just not entirely familiar with the SGS2/android architecture but I can google the missing bits.
As an aside, if I end up having to flash the recovery partition with CWM, is this recovery overwritten when flashing the stock rom? I.e. does it rebuild it on first boot? Is it part of the rom?
To get CWM recovery, you need to flash a kernel which comes with it. Since you're rooted already, you can either do that using Heimdall, via an app such as Mobile Odin (several others exist) or manually via adb/terminal.
Why do I need an entire kernel? Can't I just install the recovery? I was planning on making a full backup of my stock phone, including the kernel, for recovery purposes.
I used Rom Manager and tried to flash CWM with it. It failed and left me with the update.zip which I can't flash in recovery because of the signature issue.
About the Apps, I've heard that Rom Manager isn't safe to use (i.e. may brick the phone). What about Mobile Odin (which isn't free)? Does using a pay app make it any safer?
Simple method .
Root + CWM .
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1103399
Why do I need an entire kernel? Can't I just install the recovery? I was planning on making a full backup of my stock phone, including the kernel, for recovery purposes.
As recovery is in the kernel the answer is no .
jje
ldiamond2 said:
Hi all,
I'm trying to install ClockworkMod with no luck. I'm getting the "Signature verification failed" error.
I have a Samsung Galaxy s2 9100M (bell/virgin version). Currently running everything stock except that I manually gained root access, compiled su binary and placed it in /system/bin (with appropriate permissions of course). I also installed busybox from source. So my phone is fully rooted, the superuser app works fine as well (used chainsdd su).
As an aside, if I end up having to flash the recovery partition with CWM, is this recovery overwritten when flashing the stock rom? I.e. does it rebuild it on first boot? Is it part of the rom?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I had this problem originally when i first rooted my phone, (S2 International). Signature Verification Failed.
I flashed a CWM based recovery, 4.0 or something and my problems went away. S2 Kernels and Recoveries are merged in one, thats why you can't have one with out the other.
If you flash a different rom, unless it comes with its own recovery, it won't overwrite yours.
ldiamond2 said:
I was planning on making a full backup of my stock phone, including the kernel, for recovery purposes.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Any backup you make will still be rooted, which is likely to invalidate warranty anyway.
Read this thread for how to achieve what you want: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1409484
Rooted is fine since I can manually remove the su binary and busybox.
I've seen this method before but I have seen no comments on if it really works or not. Maybe you have?
ldiamond2 said:
I'm a professional software engineer with extensive unix/linux knowledge. I'm just not entirely familiar with the SGS2/android architecture but I can google the missing bits.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ldiamond2 said:
I've seen this method before but I have seen no comments on if it really works or not. Maybe you have?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's dd, not much else to explain to a Linux user .
If you follow the advice of dd'ing the kernel first, then flashing a kernel containing CWM and dd'ing all the partitions from within recovery (adb) and doing nandroid backup for good measure, there's really not a lot that can go wrong when it comes to restoring.
oinkylicious said:
there's really not a lot that can go wrong when it comes to restoring.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, one thing that comes to mind is missing partitions... Another is partitions residing in read-only memory (which you can't remount as read-write) for which dd wouldn't be helpful for restoring.
Also using dd to copy partitions mounted as read-write can cause a corrupted output. Who knows what happened while you were copying it.
Quoting the post: "Put back your Backups [untested]"
hi guys
i'm now using NEAK 2.0 SAMMY kernel on ICS that is working with CWM 5.5 (touch)
how can i change it to the simple CWM that just use button to work ?
is it possible?
I can't give you the verification you're looking for, I've never had an interest in getting my phone back to the condition it was in when I bought it (I rooted it the day I bought it, 11 months ago, and never looked back).
I don't believe any of the partitions are incapable of being mounted R/W. If they were, it would surely be irrelevant for you anyway since if you can't write to them, they're not going to change no matter what you do. Also, dd'ing from recovery over adb should ensure nothing is writing to the partitions.
oinkylicious said:
If they were, it would surely be irrelevant for you anyway since if you can't write to them, they're not going to change no matter what you do.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, depends what the flashing process involves. It can flash memory that otherwise can't be flashed from the OS.
Also, dd'ing from recovery over adb should ensure nothing is writing to the partitions.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's definitely a way to avoid the corruption of the dd image.
god.fsl: Don't try to hijack the thread.
ldiamond2 said:
Well, one thing that comes to mind is missing partitions... Another is partitions residing in read-only memory (which you can't remount as read-write) for which dd wouldn't be helpful for restoring.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am not really sure why you are trying to make easy things that difficult.
Have a look at the CF-Root Kernels.
These are kernels taken from stock ROM and only included necessary things like busybox, superuser, CWM and so on.
With CWM you can easily make a backup of your entire system.
Seriously it's a pretty easy things and you would have to worry alot less. Even if you are a professional linux software engineer.
PS: When working on the system like you are it might probably be a good idea to do a quick backup of your efs Folder
I have a stock rom evo 4g LTE, rooted, with Android 4.0.3 on it.
I forget the root app I used, some one click thingy, I guess my bootloader is unlocked
because I get a boot menu every time I reboot, on that screen that says **TAMPERED**.
Anyway, I ignored the notification icon in my taskbar for OTA updates, for a very long time.
Since the day I bought it over a year ago.
Finally I decided "eh, screw it, why not." ...I'm sure I'll regret that.
I told it to do the OTA update, and it downloaded (I think??) and rebooted.
The icon went away. Seemed to be a done deal.
But once per day since then, my phone rings, and I see a prompt saying
there's an OTA update, and would I like to install it now?
I think it's the same OTA update being prompted repeatdly,
because the filesize is always the same (~42 megs).
What should I do? I can choose install, reboot, and be fine for the rest of the day,
or choose cancel, reboot, and be fine for the rest of the day.
Doesn't seem to matter. But would be nice to fix it for good.
Well, considering that you are about 4-5 OTAs behind the rest of the community, I would say that the notification is probably correct. HOWEVER, of you are not using the stock recovery, then the OTA did not flash. Yes, the phone rebooted, but that's because it is installed entirely through recovery, and the phone has to reboot to get into recovery mode in the first place.
Now, for the more important question at hand....why exactly are you still using ICS? Furthermore, if you are still using ICS, then why are you rooted? As far as I'm concerned, the OTAs are actually necessary updates for the phone. I'm sure that you will love Jelly Bean if you have never used it before.
And please, for the sake of us all who are cringing at the sight of the first sentence....PLEASE UPDATE your phone! If you have a good reason not to, please share.
Hi, thanks for the reply... Maybe they were all different updates after all.
I haven't been prompted to update again since my post.
Maybe I grabbed the 3 or 4 OTA updates that I needed to catch up on.
I do think I'd like Jelly Bean too, seeing some of the features is what prompted me to finally catch up.
Can you explain this part to me? I'm not familiar with this stuff.
HOWEVER, of you are not using the stock recovery, then the OTA did not flash.
Yes, the phone rebooted, but that's because it is installed entirely through recovery,
and the phone has to reboot to get into recovery mode in the first place.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So, there's more than one recovery mode, the stock one, and ...whatever else you can install?
When I see the white screen that says **TAMPERED** (looks basically like this screen)...
should I have chosen Recovery instead of the usual reboot option?
If I no longer see the notification, does that mean the updates worked? My Android version still shows 4.0.3.
why exactly are you still using ICS? Furthermore, if you are still using ICS, then why are you rooted?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, I had no compelling reason to upgrade. I still don't really, the phone does what I want,
I just saw some of the features in the next version and thought "huh, that sounds pretty cool".
I'm rooted for all the usual reasons... I want to be able to browse, copy, move, rename files (including system files)
without incident... use nandroid for backups... wifi tether (still can't get that to work actually)... install unapproved apps...
tweak the OS, and so on.
Ok, my friend...let me educate you. Instead of giving you the simplest, fastest solution, I will actually try to answer all of your questions, since you did ask.
I do think I'd like Jelly Bean too, seeing some of the features is what prompted me to finally catch up.
Can you explain this part to me? I'm not familiar with this stuff.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To give a very superficial explanation of Jelly Bean, it is everything that ICS does, and more. It just does it smoother. It also brings Google Now, which was – and still is – the selling point of Jelly Bean. The Sense launcher got a few changes, too, but you will have to explore those changes on your own (mainly because I don’t remember them off hand, and this post is beginning to become lengthy).
Maybe I grabbed the 3 or 4 OTA updates that I needed to catch up on.
If I no longer see the notification, does that mean the updates worked? My Android version still shows 4.0.3.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If the first update didn’t update properly, then the phone is simply downloading and trying to install the same update over and over. When you boot back into Android after a successful update, you will be greeted by a welcome message congratulating you for installing the new version.
If you are rooted, odds are, you are using a custom recovery, such as TWRP or CWM. OTAs are only installed through the stock recovery & a locked bootloader. The stock recovery doesn’t make nandroids, or do anything of the sort. To install the stock recovery, go here:
http://downloadandroidrom.com/file/HTCEvo4GLTE/rooting/Evo4GLTERoot2.zip
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The stock recovery is located somewhere within the zip file.
So, there's more than one recovery mode, the stock one, and ...whatever else you can install?
When I see the white screen that says **TAMPERED** (looks basically like this screen)...
should I have chosen Recovery instead of the usual reboot option?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can flash install the stock recovery by using fastboot commands from the bootloader (which is the screen that shows the TAMPERED status on the top), or you can use Flash Image GUI. It is a paid app on the Play Store, or you can get it from XDA (the dev let XDA users download it for free…Google it).
Lastly, there are a few things that I suggest that you do. First, obtain S-Off (Google, Google, Google...very simple), so you can install the new firmwares directly, instead of using OTAs. Otherwise, if you accept the OTA, you will lose root, and you will have to root your phone again and again. Installing the firmware, then the new rom is the same as accepting the OTA, then rooting.
Another alternative is to get S-Off, then accept the OTA (after installing the stock recovery). Your bootloader does not need to be locked, and there are recovery zips floating around here that can be installed through the bootloader (therefore, you will not be stuck rooting the phone the hard way, just boot into recovery and flash SuperSU). I highly suggest achieving S-Off.
If you want to jump straight to the latest version (Android 4.3, Sense 5.0) by installing the RUU located somewhere in this forum. I actually suggest that you try Sense 4 with Jelly Bean first, but that is completely up to you. Keep in mind that using the RUU will wipe your internal memory, so back up what needs to be backed up. This doesn’t require you to be rooted, and the state of the bootloader does not matter. It will lock the bootloader, load the stock recovery, and you will lose root. You won’t be able to downgrade without S-Off.
Other Notes:
When using the 4.3 RUU, make sure that Android USB Debugging is enabled.
Bookmarking for later but I wanted to say thanks for the thorough reply!
I can confirm the update never worked, because I never got the confirmation message
and I got prompted again a few hours after I posted.
Are you willing to answer just a few more things?
Based on what I've read, it sounds like this is what I ought to do:
- Back up anything I need to. Just to confirm, updating firmware and flashing a new rom wipes out everything in the phone's internal memory, but not external SDcard? Or both?
Are apps considered "on the cloud" and I can reinstall by just redownloading, without paying again?
Except sideloaded apps? Or will I need to find all those APK files and save them somewhere else?
Is it safe to say they're all in \data\app and \system\app? Or would system\app be unwanted since it's what came with the old phone OS?
- Get my phone into S-OFF status.
- Update firmware (this is a separate process from updating the rom? Where do I get this firmware? Google google google?)
- Install a new ROM (stock or otherwise) which will have these updates built in, so I won't need to regain root.
- Not sure what my bootloader is, maybe TWRP, does it matter? Do the above steps affect it? Should I change it to stock anyway?
- You suggested trying Sense 4 rather than Sense 5 first... any special reason?
Are you willing to answer just a few more things?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As always, I'm open for questions. Not to sound egotistic, but I enjoy sharing my opinion.
Based on what I've read, it sounds like this is what I ought to do:
- Back up anything I need to. Just to confirm, updating firmware and flashing a new rom wipes out everything in the phone's internal memory, but not external SDcard? Or both?
Updating to the 4.3 firmware wipes your internal memory, not your sd card (although, that may be a very unfortunate circumstance, so it should be backed up as well). The other firmware updates do not affect your memory.
Are apps considered "on the cloud" and I can reinstall by just redownloading, without paying again?
Technically, yes they are "on the cloud." The fact that you paid is saved somewhere within your main Google account that you downloaded the app with. It is possible to pay for apps with your secondary gmail account, which can be switched within the Play Store app.
Except sideloaded apps? Or will I need to find all those APK files and save them somewhere else?
Use Titanium Backup if you can't find the apks. I do save my apks that I download, and I also upload them to Google Drive, since I have multiple Android devices, and I also have a faulty micro sd card that I am yet to replace. I can lose my data at any given moment, but everything is backed up, so I'm not worried.
Is it safe to say they're all in \data\app and \system\app? Or would system\app be unwanted since it's what came with the old phone OS?
Everything within the /system folder is wiped when you flash new roms. That data is NOT backed up while flashing between roms. Also, since it is from an older Android version, it's best to leave them alone. You may back up the data if you like, but I would refrain from restoring the apks along with the data.
The /data directory may be wiped, depending on the dev who built the rom zip. If they added the superwipe script, then /data will be wiped as well. Most devs do not include this, since many people "dirty flash," which is flashing new roms or updates of the current rom without wiping /data first.
- Get my phone into S-OFF status.
You will save yourself a LOT of headaches in the future. It was my S-Off status that allowed me to reflash my firmware when I lost the function of my data/voice antennas while carelessly flashing a port of a phone on a different carrier. Also, if you feel curious to try AOSP roms, then you do not need to do any extra steps to flash them.
- Update firmware (this is a separate process from updating the rom? Where do I get this firmware? Google google google?)
Yes, the firmware handles manages how the hardware of the phone operates. Updating the rom changes how the software looks and behaves. The kernel is sort of a bridge between the firmware and the software, since it manages the firmware (like battery life, processor speed, antennas, etc.), but the kernel is dependent on the software version. The firmware is not dependent on the software version, just as the software version is not dependent on the firmware version.
The only exception of the firmware/software independence is the 4.3 update, which requires a complete update of the firmware, and the older software cannot run on the new firmware without being modded by a dev.
- Install a new ROM (stock or otherwise) which will have these updates built in, so I won't need to regain root.
- Not sure what my bootloader is, maybe TWRP, does it matter? Do the above steps affect it? Should I change it to stock anyway?
Your bootloader is the white screen that shows the TAMPERED status on the top, and little Androids on skateboards on the bottom. With the exception of the firmware information in the top left corner, this screen does not change...ever.
TWRP is your recovery image, which is accessible through the RECOVERY option in your bootloader, or you can boot directly into it through different apps in Android - Titanium Backup is one of them (yes, that's one of the options, even for the free version).
The only reason to return your recovery to stock is to accept OTAs, and also to bring your phone back to the complete factory settings, just as the day when it was first purchased (for the sake of selling the phone, or returning back to Sprint for service}. Otherwise, don't bother with it. You may want to update your version of TWRP, though. If you update to 4.3, you will have to update it. I'm not going to take the time to get into that right now. I've given you enough homework.
- You suggested trying Sense 4 rather than Sense 5 first... any special reason?
I am a very patient person. To me, exploring Android takes time. I enjoy reading before I test, and testing before I settle (which I'm yet to "settle"). All of that being said, I suggested Sense 4 before Sense 5 because I wanted you to experience the both of them. They are truly two different versions of Sense, which one might not realize, as their version numbers are differentiated by one integer (in other words, 4 to 5). Sense 3 was a small step above Sense 2, and Sense 4 was a bigger step from Sense 3. Sense 5 is a complete overhaul of the Sense UI, save the flip clock.
I just feel that skipping from 4.0 to 4.3 is missing out on a great experience, but that is mainly if you actually want to try out different roms. Until the Sense 5 RUU, I still visiting ICS on occassion, but I usually didn't last more than 3 hours before I jumped back to JB.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Whew...you're making me work. But I like it. Anymore questions? Feel free to ask.
OK I've been working on this all afternoon and I'm at an impasse.
You've been a huge help so far and I hope you can guide me through this part.
I want to S-OFF and am following a tutorial: http://www.thefortressofnerditude.com/s-off-your-sprint-htc-evo-4g-lte/
Step 3 says root and install recovery. So I decide I need TWRP.
Already have nandroid and titanium backups both completed.
And I copied the whole SDcard to my computer after.
Annoyingly, TWRP's install page suggests that I need to be in S-OFF.
TWRP says I need S-OFF. S-OFF guide seems to suggest I need TWRP working.
I installed "TWRP Manager". Realize that might not be the same thing as TWRP.
Googled and found it on the TeamWin page.
The page asks first to input my device. I choose Evo 4G LTE (Jewel).
That brings me to this page: http://teamw.in/project/twrp2/98
They suggest I do the android app install method. I follow the first link (Market Link)
and install GooManager, and follow their steps.
Install the app and open it. Tap menu then hit Install OpenRecoveryScript. Tap Yes. Verify that the filename displays your device's code name and hit Yes. The file will download and your device will reboot and install the recovery automatically.
This all goes smoothly, but here's my issue.
It doesn't reboot automatically, or install anything automatically.
I see in the comments a recommendation to reboot into recovery mode.
I choose that in GooManager's menu, and after rebooting I get my bootloader screen with 4 menu options:
Bootloader
Reboot
Reboot Bootloader
Power Down
The only one that sounds sensible to me is bootloader so I pick that.
Now I get some new options:
Fastboot
Recovery
Factory Reset
Clear Storage
Simlock
Image CRC
Show Barcode
So, the only one that makes sense is Recovery. I choose it. The phone reboots.
Now I'm back at the first menu. So I'm in a loop.
Nothing I do in this loop seems to install anything.
So I just rebooted the phone normally and I'm back to my OS.
Where to go from here?
CreeDo said:
OK I've been working on this all afternoon and I'm at an impasse.
You've been a huge help so far and I hope you can guide me through this part.
I want to S-OFF and am following a tutorial: http://www.thefortressofnerditude.com/s-off-your-sprint-htc-evo-4g-lte/
Step 3 says root and install recovery. So I decide I need TWRP.
Already have nandroid and titanium backups both completed.
And I copied the whole SDcard to my computer after.
Annoyingly, TWRP's install page suggests that I need to be in S-OFF.
TWRP says I need S-OFF. S-OFF guide seems to suggest I need TWRP working.
I installed "TWRP Manager". Realize that might not be the same thing as TWRP.
Googled and found it on the TeamWin page.
The page asks first to input my device. I choose Evo 4G LTE (Jewel).
That brings me to this page: http://teamw.in/project/twrp2/98
They suggest I do the android app install method. I follow the first link (Market Link)
and install GooManager, and follow their steps.
Install the app and open it. Tap menu then hit Install OpenRecoveryScript. Tap Yes. Verify that the filename displays your device's code name and hit Yes. The file will download and your device will reboot and install the recovery automatically.
This all goes smoothly, but here's my issue.
It doesn't reboot automatically, or install anything automatically.
I see in the comments a recommendation to reboot into recovery mode.
I choose that in GooManager's menu, and after rebooting I get my bootloader screen with 4 menu options:
Bootloader
Reboot
Reboot Bootloader
Power Down
The only one that sounds sensible to me is bootloader so I pick that.
Now I get some new options:
Fastboot
Recovery
Factory Reset
Clear Storage
Simlock
Image CRC
Show Barcode
So, the only one that makes sense is Recovery. I choose it. The phone reboots.
Now I'm back at the first menu. So I'm in a loop.
Nothing I do in this loop seems to install anything.
So I just rebooted the phone normally and I'm back to my OS.
Where to go from here?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Did you unlock your boot loader first? You don't need to be S-off to install a custom recovery. Unlock your bootloader at htcdev.com then install twrp.
Read here for more info:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2420916
Also, I suggest learning how to use fastboot commands. Install twrp using fastboot.
Sent from my EVO using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
OK, so I'm semi-bricked but not panicking yet.
Here's where I'm at.
• Unlocked boot loader successfully
• Installed TWRP using fastboot.
• Followed instructions as closely as I could on moonshine.io to get S-OFF working.
Several times during the process I got "installing device driver software" in my win7 system tray.
Not sure if that's normal. But the drivers seemed to install fine. At first.
But then, during this part of the process:
Moonshining .................(1)
Windows prompted me that it was installing some drivers again, But it failed to install the MTP driver.
After ten tries with the "Moonshining" step, I got "ERROR: don't drink and moonshine!" or something like that.
So, it seems like I need to get this MTP driver going. First I tried solutions on the computer:
• Uninstalled all HTC software, unplugged phone, rebooted,
installed HTC Sync Manager (setup name setup_3.0.52.0_htc.exe), then uninstalled it...
because a tutorial said this would keep the drivers but remove the software. Still no luck on the MTP driver though.
• Found "Mass Storage Device" (my phone) under device manager, removed it, unplugged, rebooted, replugged.
• Plugged cord into back of PC, so I'm using USB 2.0 rather than USB 3.0.
• One suggestion said a certain registry section might have an upperfilter key that shouldn't be there.
But I don't have that upperfilter key so that's not the issue.
Some fixes require getting into my phone (one guy suggests turning off USB debugging)...
but I no longer have a working OS. I can get into my bootloader, I tried Factory Reset.
But after choosing this I go into TWRP and I have no TWRP backups that I can restore.
So my next guess is, I need to get a recovery ZIP (is that basically a ROM?) that TWRP can install.
If that's correct, what ZIP should I get? I was on Android 4.0.3 Sense 4.0, can I download jellybean with Sense 5.0,
and install it via TWRP?
That was my goal all along, but I'm determined to get S-OFF working, so if doing that means my phone gets wiped again,
I guess I just want whatever ROM/recovery/whatever that allows me to change this USB debugging setting,
and try other phone-related fixes to the MTP driver issue.
First of all, flash an ICS rom. I'm assuming that you are still using the same ICS firmware, and you will want to have your phone operational (to enable USB debugging). The link for MeanRom ICS still works. http://old.androidfilehost.com/main/EVO_3D_Developers/mikeyxda/LTEvo/MeanROM-ICS-v65-jewel-ltevo.zip
Ok....since you are on the old HBoot, I think that you need to use the older S-Off methods (LazyPanda or DirtyRacun), if I'm not mistaken. You can not download and flash Sense 5.0 through TWRP as of yet, because you need to be using the new firmware to do so. You may want to pay http://unlimited.io/jewel.htm a visit. Also, to use LazyPanda or DirtyRacun, you need to be using Ubuntu. Another option that you have is to use the regular RUU and update directly to Sense 5.0. You will be stock, unrooted, but you can easily use the latest S-Off method.
Lastly, for your rooting/S-Off needs, you can also use a handy-dandy toolkit from @WindyCityRockr that can handle everything that you need to do. I usually encourage manual labor, but there are some exceptions. http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2436217
Thanks again for jumping in.
I'm getting somewhere, but still so many difficulties.
Fix one thing, break two more.
I finally have a new working rom, but almost against my will it ended up
being CyanogenMod.
The short version:
- unlocked bootloader, got TWRP going, finally got ADB working (don't think it's the right driver,
but whatever, ADB commands work fine), wiped everything... factory reset, Dalvik, external storage.
- Didn't wipe Internal storage, I wiped only /data/ per some post's recommendation.
- I used ADB PUSH to get a few possible roms onto /sdcard/
PJ75IMG_1.13.651.1.zip (failed with "unable to open zip")
(ROM)_Stock_Rooted_OTA_(3.16.651.3)V2.zip (failed with "unable to execute updater binary in zip")
cm-10.2.0-jewel.zip (cyanogenmod) - success!
So, the phone works. It appears to be at least based on android 4.3... and I'm guessing CM, which updates
frequently, has all those OTA updates bundled into it. Any downsides to CyanogenMod?
I could just proceed from here to reinstall my old apps etc.
I'm still not "S-OFF" which annoys me, but I read a post suggesting it's not really that necessary.
The way they put it is, s-off allows you to access partitions so they can be modded,
but nobody is developing anything interesting for those partitions. Like nobody's doing custom radios and such.
Should I still pursue S-OFF anyway?
If so, is there a way to do it with CyanogenMod?
That awesome app (Windroid Universal Toolkit) doesn't recognize the phone.
Last question, how should I go about restoring everything?
I had titanium and nandroid backups copied to my computer.
Can it restore to such a wildly different version of the OS?
Can I get back not just apps, but stuff like my keyboard preferences, texting history, etc.?
Should I still pursue S-OFF anyway?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes! Being S-On is a complete pain in the BUTT when switching AOSP roms. Have you tried to flash the rom that I posted, MeanRom ICS? I'm really trying to get you to stay on Sense, because S-Off and other different tools work so much better while using Sense. AOSP is better after S-Off. But that's up to you.
If so, is there a way to do it with CyanogenMod?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am not sure. You can try if you have the time. I suggest making a nandroid of your CM rom, and try to flash a Sense ICS rom, not JB...yet.
That awesome app (Windroid Universal Toolkit) doesn't recognize the phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
CM might be the issue here, as well as it might not.
Last question, how should I go about restoring everything?
I had titanium and nandroid backups copied to my computer.
Can it restore to such a wildly different version of the OS?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, TB will still work. There are some apps that might cause the restoration process to freeze, so I suggest killing TB and skipping over the app that froze the process when you return.
Can I get back not just apps, but stuff like my keyboard preferences, texting history, etc.?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If your keyboard preferences was not backed up, then no. If you were using the stock Sense keyboard, then that is a no as well. As long as your texting history was backed up, it can be restored. Texts are not like apps...their data is typically stored in XML files which are readable through any version of Android (2.3+).
I'm still soliciting my help if you need it.
I'm for sure going to need it, so thanks very much for the ongoing support!
I got discouraged after all the failures but I'll download Meanrom now.
The thing is... now that Cyanogen mod works, I hesitate to wipe it and try a new one.
Especially since several other roms I tried mysteriously failed to install.
I like that it's jellybean and don't wanna move backwards to ICS.
And I like their goal of cutting out the fluff.
I still want S-OFF, will I end up having to wipe everything again to get it?
Also, I really don't feel confident I have the right drivers for my windows machine.
I can transfer files in USB mode, go into USB debugging, and do the usual ADB commands.
But the phone shows up as a nexus in device manager, but it's definitely evo 4G lte.
I tried installing an executable RUU and it failed after a bit saying it can't detect the device.
And there's that issue where Windroid doesn't detect it.
So I have the feeling that without the right USB drivers, tools like Moonshine will still fail.
I specifically got errors every time when anything tried to install MTP usb drivers. Do I really need them?
You think LazyPanda or DirtyRacun's tools will work even if I never get the MTP thing installed?
CreeDo said:
I'm for sure going to need it, so thanks very much for the ongoing support!
I got discouraged after all the failures but I'll download Meanrom now.
The thing is... now that Cyanogen mod works, I hesitate to wipe it and try a new one.
Especially since several other roms I tried mysteriously failed to install.
I like that it's jellybean and don't wanna move backwards to ICS.
And I like their goal of cutting out the fluff.
I still want S-OFF, will I end up having to wipe everything again to get it?
Also, I really don't feel confident I have the right drivers for my windows machine.
I can transfer files in USB mode, go into USB debugging, and do the usual ADB commands.
But the phone shows up as a nexus in device manager, but it's definitely evo 4G lte.
I tried installing an executable RUU and it failed after a bit saying it can't detect the device.
And there's that issue where Windroid doesn't detect it.
So I have the feeling that without the right USB drivers, tools like Moonshine will still fail.
I specifically got errors every time when anything tried to install MTP usb drivers. Do I really need them?
You think LazyPanda or DirtyRacun's tools will work even if I never get the MTP thing installed?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Feel free to try the facepalm S-off method as well. Works on devices with older software and is super easy. Look here:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2163013
Sent from my Nexus 5 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
Evolution_Freak said:
Feel free to try the facepalm S-off method as well. Works on devices with older software and is super easy. Look here:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2163013
Sent from my Nexus 5 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Cheers, it does look pretty straightforward.
Of course that's what I thought hours ago when I tried moonshine haha.
I'll give it a go.
To be clear, does this method wipe anything?
They don't actually say.
CreeDo said:
Cheers, it does look pretty straightforward.
Of course that's what I thought hours ago when I tried moonshine haha.
I'll give it a go.
To be clear, does this method wipe anything?
They don't actually say.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can't remember if it wipes or not. Best thing to do is make a backup with TWRP and keep the backup on your external SD card. If it wipes you can always restore your backup.
Sent from my HTC device
Thanks for the help so far guys. I am currently really enjoying Cyanogenmod. I suspect it's eating battery more,
but then against I am on the phone for hours redoing everything that got changed/removed.
Does anyone know if there's a simple way (or even a difficult way) to restore my texts?
Because the app is totally different, and the old text app was the one that came
with the stock rom, I cannot restore it in titanium. But if I could extract even the raw text that'd be helpful.
Get back to Sense, or get someone with Sense to restore it for you, and save it using a different app. Or maybe try using SMS Backup & Restore from the Play Store. I'm not sure if it can read the backups saved through Sense, but it's worth a try. You just have to navigate to the location of the old backup.
It looks like I can import an XML in this messaging app so maybe if sense offers an export to XML option, I'll be set.
Sense is sort of an OS on top of the OS, right?
Can sense be loaded without flashing a new rom? or is it too integrated with the OS?