I don't remember seeing anywhere that this forum was only for those with a one-sided opinion that the Prime is perfect, the greatest thing since sliced bread, and the ultimate solution for mankind!
It's getting a little old when every time someone posts a problem, or criticism of the TP, numerous posters attempt to discredit the OP and complain about the negative post, saying just return it if you don't like it. Then throw in something like, I would never use that feature anyway, why would you want to? Or imply, I don't have that problem so you must be wrong.
Everyone has an opinion and the obvious right to express it. We don't all have to agree. We do have to agree to disagree, if we are going to have a meaningful forum. How else can we help each other?
If you are happy with your purchase, then good. That doesn't mean that those who aren't are wrong. Also if you are disappointed and think Asus let you down, you're entitled to that opinion. That doesn't make you wrong either. Everyone please respect the fact that each user may have their own expectations of what is acceptable performance, however unimaginable that may seem to us.
Why exactly did you create a new topic....?
another newspaper article or Blog.. XDA can we get a personal Blog section?
Errrrrm what exactly is the point of this thread or Title for that matter?
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using xda premium
I personally agree with the OP. I've followed all the threads from the pre orders lol. Most have been pretty fair and respectful, and some reports have been Apple guys, sour grapes, or just arrogant like some on here above me. I am in support of those who have a device that they feel isn't what they were to get, especially when Asus and others are admitting these same issues. These are valid points. I've decided to keep mine and work through it. Sweeping it under the rug though makes no sense. I agree though not much can be done until ICS is released with the unlocked boot loader. So why be disrespectful unless deserved.
On another not I'm about to post a Q in the Q and A thread about HDMI. Despite searching I could not find my answer so feel free to rip me there. I read post I feel are important. Those I don't feel are important I ignore. I feel that having a thread with 0 responses is a bigger message than taking the time to hop on the thread to say its stupid. Just my. 02
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using Tapatalk
MrGiggles said:
another newspaper article or Blog.. XDA can we get a personal Blog section?
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this.
xda used to be somewhere one could get help, learn about something new, or help the dev community, but lately it's just because this place for people to post how they feel about something or what they think about something when no one really cares.
posts that stated the fact that gps didn't work right, or wifi was weak = perfectly fine, since they publicised an issue that asus was trying to ignore.
posts that keep complaining about gps or why xyz feature isn't as good as their old tablet, or why they think people shouldn't buy the prime, or why they should buy tablet x = pointless, add clutter, and just make it hard to find actual information.
this thread falls into the latter.
adiliyo said:
this.
xda used to be somewhere one could get help, learn about something new, or help the dev community, but lately it's just because this place for people to post how they feel about something or what they think about something when no one really cares.
posts that stated the fact that gps didn't work right, or wifi was weak = perfectly fine, since they publicised an issue that asus was trying to ignore.
posts that keep complaining about gps or why xyz feature isn't as good as their old tablet, or why they think people shouldn't buy the prime, or why they should buy tablet x = pointless, add clutter, and just make it hard to find actual information.
this thread falls into the latter.
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I agree with this 100% people get tired of seeing the same old complaints, nagging, and posts asking if I should keep or return the prime. those threads aren't really helpful at all. all it does is make new people looking into this section question the device and make a biased opinion on it without never even having hands on yet. Just check out the "Positive Transformer Thread". you will see several people at first that feed into all the complaints. then they got the device and was very glad they didn't let all the negative posts influence them getting the device. A thread discussing an issue and trying to find a solution is helpful. A thread just constantly complaining of saw issue is no help at all n just clutters the section for Prime.
We already have several great developers who formed their own opinion on the Prime and really like it alot. So regardless we already have developement in progress. If someone is so unhappy with device, return it and move on. We don't need a thread nagging about it. You are not hurting developement and forward progress of Prime. FOR every complaint there will be several more positive ones. Prime is here to stay on top as King of Android devices as long as it can. So the skeptics can just move on along and wait for the higher resolution devices with higher specs that will perform less than prime due to higher resolution .
I agree with the OP.
For people complaining that this site is for devs, you belong in the DEVELOPMENT section. It's stupid that devs are constantly complaining about people posting opinions in the dev section and telling them to stay in the General section, then people post such material in the General forums and get flamed as well.
Regarding the Prime, I'm extremely disappointed. I've been an avid Android fanboy since the days of the G1 and the earliest "dessert" updates. I say this because I want to make it clear that I'm not an Apple troll AT ALL. With that in mind, Android has some serious, serious problems that need to be addressed both as a device platform in general and as an OS in specific. Asus also has some reckoning due with the Prime as well.
My Prime came to me via a Big Box retailer with 3 dead pixels, a spotty light sensor, the well known GPS issue, and WiFi that is consistently sub-par at best. I haven't tested yet, but there are also widespread reports of HDMI issues.
Heap onto that the fact that even stock Android under-performs as an OS. Stability issues from the start, even on ICS. Apps often have several annoying bugs that kill the experience - e.g. videos becoming unplayable in the Youtube app if you accidentally let the screen turn off. I'm currently using my Prime while sitting next to my girlfriend who is using her iPad 2, and I'm watching the iPad's UI zip by seamlessly as my Prime struggles to display the text I'm currently hunt-and-pecking out on the soft keyboard within the stock browser. Incidentally, my girlfriend has her iPad 2 handy because we were watching a Youtube video together on the Prime when I tried scrolling ahead and all hell broke loose. The app froze, jerked ahead, stopped loading video, the Prime became unresponsive, and eventually the app force closed. By the time I had restarted everything - dealing with several non-starts when trying to coax the app to seek ahead in the video - my girlfriend had already gotten her iPad, navigated to the video, cued it up, and picked up where we left off.
All of THIS with the fact that there is no spec that the Prime doesn't absolutely stomp the iPad 2 with in comparison. Oh, except usability, I guess.
People have every right to be disappointed with this product, and this is as good a venue as any to register that disappointment. Like it or not, Apple has set the bar high by allowing customers to take a device out of the box and get exactly what they were promised in the specs sheet. The amount of manufacturer defects and software incompatibilities present in the Prime flies in the face of this trend.
I suppose we can all just wait for cooked ROMs, though, where we will all trade system stability and a feature or two no longer functioning for a 5% performance increase
I'll tell you what, though, after 4 HTC Sensations (hardware defects in every single one), and now the Prime leaving MUCH to be desired, this Fandroid is about 2 seconds from calling it quits. Apple may not always "just work" as their BS marketing claims, but at least their devices don't arrive in shambles like so many Android devices I've owned.
Those of you longing for the day when XDA was almost exclusively a development forum, give it up. Because it covers the broadest array of devices and has the highest posting counts it has become the defacto source of information for everyone interested in a device, not just developers. The dev section's pretty much still intact but the general section is just that.
As for the hater, troll, and fanboy accusations, they've been a bit worse on this forum than is typical but I think a lot of it was just compounded by the number of major issues occuring at the same time (launch availablity, GPS expose, QC, etc.). It should settle down over time.
A lot of the most raging debates are over what the Prime is, where it sits in the tablet pecking order, and what it's meant to compete with. I'm assuming the HD Asus tablet that'll be shown in a couple of days will be both more expensive than the Prime and have better features too making it Asus' high-end device. If that ends up being true, the Prime's mission will become clearer - 1) be an excellent value, and 2) and exclusively offer a hard and detachable keyboard. That should help set some common expectations and make people judge it a little less harshly. Right now it's being compared to other higher-spec tablets and the iPad which isn't fair and may have not even been Asus' intention.
Diamondback2010 said:
Why exactly did you create a new topic....?
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MrGiggles said:
another newspaper article or Blog.. XDA can we get a personal Blog section?
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NatTheCat said:
Errrrrm what exactly is the point of this thread or Title for that matter?
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using xda premium
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adiliyo said:
this.
xda used to be somewhere one could get help, learn about something new, or help the dev community, but lately it's just because this place for people to post how they feel about something or what they think about something when no one really cares.
posts that stated the fact that gps didn't work right, or wifi was weak = perfectly fine, since they publicised an issue that asus was trying to ignore.
posts that keep complaining about gps or why xyz feature isn't as good as their old tablet, or why they think people shouldn't buy the prime, or why they should buy tablet x = pointless, add clutter, and just make it hard to find actual information.
this thread falls into the latter.
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Click to collapse
The arrogance of these post is obvious.
I posted here in "Eee Pad Transformer Prime General" about an apparent issue concerning the many attacks about the Prime issues, positive or negative. Maybe you haven't noticed.
If you were expecting development topics perhaps you should look at "Eee Pad Transformer Prime Android Development" or questions at "Eee Pad Transformer Prime Q&A." This is the General section, if you did not notice.
Otherwise you conceited opinion is just that, another opinion.
I don't think it's anybody's fault per se. This forum is mostly populated by early adopters who paid a premium for their tabs. When you paid big bucks, you want to feel good about your purchase, which is natural. Criticisms and complaints, however justified, get ya down. Part of the reason of buying toys is to feel good about using them. It's a normal human reaction.
Then you have the flip side, of people wanting to vent their frustration. Add the inevitable pushback, and it's a volatile and noisy mix.
Too, normal social cues are missing on a text-only medium. We all tend to be more coarse--and yes, more arrogant--in online exchanges. Unfortunate, but par for the course. Just have to roll with the punches.
In short, it is what it is. Take what you like, and ignore the rest. Complaining just adds to the noise level.
The fact of the matter is, if it is about the Transformer Prime, and is not a question, then this is the section the thread should be in...that is why "General" is here, practically a "catch-all". Granted, it can be frustrating if there are 25+ threads on "pre-order / stock" issues, or or the like. 2 or 3 threads is more than enough, if people use the search function, then "General" won't get cluttered with redundant posts.
( mine included, lol )
Related
I came to a realization last night. While I used to come to XDA for up to date info, mod information and general discussion involving the Android products I enjoy or are looking forward to...these days I have to sift through so much crap its loosing its luster.
Take the Prime for example. Everyday, people are *****ing and complaining about GPS or Wifi or BT or screen banding or whatever. Here is some advice. Go return your Prime or sell it on EBay or Craigslist to any of the masses that are dying to get their hands on this tablet. It is amusing to read all these threads of individuals taking their Prime so personally as if Asus stole your kids lunch money. If it is not obvious by now, any issue with this tablet are not widespread. My wifi works great, as does BT. GPS doesn't but why would I ever use it on a 10" tablet? That is what my Galaxy Nexus is for.
Long story short, if you are not happy with your purchase, return it and stop wasting my and everyone else's time writing rants about how Asus is evil and wronged you personally. If you made your purchase from a store that doesn't accept returns, then you are an idiot in the first place, but you can always hawk it on eBay or Craigslist. If you have something to add to an issue, by all means continue to post new threads, but 80% of what I am reading sounds like a bunch of 18 years olds complaining that life isn't fair. Welcome to the real world. Return your Primes, move on and relax a bit. Many of us are enjoying this tablet and come here for actual information....not Jersey Shore.
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using xda premium
Considering that most of the big players read these forums this is the perfect place to complain if you want your words noted.
As XDA serves advertising just as much as it serves info and support complaining about complaints or asking us not to is utterly unreasonable.
Anyway, you are just as guilty about *****ing as anyone else, what do you think your post amounted too?
you nailed it.. its daycare for the internetz.
Kids come and stay here for hours bouncing off complaint to complaint
by the time they are done.. they are so tired they just go to bed..
well said.
So wait... the OP came to complain and people complaining... fail
In before the lock!!!
I feel like if anyone wanted to be heard, then they would just contact the manufacturer and then get back to us with anything they say. All of these people are just posting with the hope that doing the least stressful and easy thing (posting here) will fix their gps/wifi/screen problem when really if theres a problem they should just get a new unit or talk to Asus. I don't really mind complaining as much as I do redundant complaining. I know I don't want to hear anything about the gps anymore personally.
Someone Walkin' said:
Considering that most of the big players read these forums this is the perfect place to complain if you want your words noted.
As XDA serves advertising just as much as it serves info and support complaining about complaints or asking us not to is utterly unreasonable.
Anyway, you are just as guilty about *****ing as anyone else, what do you think your post amounted too?
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Fair point. Although maybe people will read it and put their egos aside, return the devices they like to complain about all day long and move on. This post is not to serve my bruised ego like many other posts that I am talking about are.
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using xda premium
You didn't put "your ego aside" and think twice about posting.. like anyone else with an issue, you posted.
Complainer!
I tend to Agree with the OP. This used to be a place about solutions to problems not a place to ***** about them. There is still plenty of useful information here it just is becoming harder and harder to sift through all of the crap to find it.
Lock-N-Load said:
So wait... the OP came to complain and people complaining... fail
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True, but you will only see me post this once. Not on every thread like a bunch of users. Stating dissatisfaction once to make a point is one thing....repeating it 10 to 20 times is not.
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using xda premium
Lets add a useless poll to this thread also to make it mean moar!
I for one am extremely happy since ICS with my TFP
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using xda premium
I think people that try to tell people to stop complaining on the internet have not been using the internet long enough.
This is what the internet was made for: Complaining! Well, and Porn.
Lock-N-Load said:
You didn't put "your ego aside" and think twice about posting.. like anyone else with an issue, you posted.
Complainer!
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If you can not tell the difference between a pointless self serving post and something like this, the I feel sorry for you. You my like the *****ing...I and others do not. It's simple. Don't like a product, return it and move on. Don't fill up multiple threads acting like Asus hurt your feelings.
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using xda premium
colbyb25 said:
I came to a realization last night. While I used to come to XDA for up to date info, mod information and general discussion involving the Android products I enjoy or are looking forward to...these days I have to sift through so much crap its loosing its luster.
Take the Prime for example. Everyday, people are *****ing and complaining about GPS or Wifi or BT or screen banding or whatever. Here is some advice. Go return your Prime or sell it on EBay or Craigslist to any of the masses that are dying to get their hands on this tablet. It is amusing to read all these threads of individuals taking their Prime so personally as if Asus stole your kids lunch money. If it is not obvious by now, any issue with this tablet are not widespread. My wifi works great, as does BT. GPS doesn't but why would I ever use it on a 10" tablet? That is what my Galaxy Nexus is for.
Long story short, if you are not happy with your purchase, return it and stop wasting my and everyone else's time writing rants about how Asus is evil and wronged you personally. If you made your purchase from a store that doesn't accept returns, then you are an idiot in the first place, but you can always hawk it on eBay or Craigslist. If you have something to add to an issue, by all means continue to post new threads, but 80% of what I am reading sounds like a bunch of 18 years olds complaining that life isn't fair. Welcome to the real world. Return your Primes, move on and relax a bit. Many of us are enjoying this tablet and come here for actual information....not Jersey Shore.
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using xda premium
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Can we make a sub-forum for whiners??? This is easily the best Android tablet I've ever used. For quick reference I've have Ipad 1, Xoom 3G, Xoom wifi, Ipad 2, Galaxy Tab 10.1 16GB and now Transformer Prime. Long story as to why I've gone through all those but if anyone is complaining about ICS and Tegra 3 Prime, you need to be humbled with the Xoom on release.
atoy74 said:
Can we make a sub-forum for whiners??? This is easily the best Android tablet I've ever used. For quick reference I've have Ipad 1, Xoom 3G, Xoom wifi, Ipad 2, Galaxy Tab 10.1 16GB and now Transformer Prime. Long story as to why I've gone through all those but if anyone is complaining about ICS and Tegra 3 Prime, you need to be humbled with the Xoom on release.
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Haha. Had the Xoom on day one. Right there with you
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using xda premium
I am tired of all the complaints, yes. There are issues, we know of them, Asus knows of them. Yet more threads about how someone is taking their Prime back or canceling their order are just growing tiresome.
We have a rule here about limiting preorder threads to one per country... perhaps we need a rule for limiting ourselves to one complaint thread.
>these days I have to sift through so much crap its loosing its luster.
You do realize that your post is a complaint itself, right?
Ie, given that your post doesn't contain any "up to date info, mod information and general discussion involving the Android products [you] enjoy," it is noise. You are contributing to the problem, as am I and everyone in this thread.
The solution is simple: discriminate. Read what you want, and ignore the rest. There's no law saying you have to read everything. Sift better. It's not anybody's responsibility to make sure you like everything you read.
Yes, noise level is higher. It's a given for any forum once it gets more popular. That's life.
If you want to improve the SNR, contribute. Don't post another ***** thread.
colbyb25 said:
If you can not tell the difference between a pointless self serving post and something like this, the I feel sorry for you. You my like the *****ing...I and others do not. It's simple. Don't like a product, return it and move on. Don't fill up multiple threads acting like Asus hurt your feelings.
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using xda premium
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Your digging yourself a deeper and deeper hole.
NOW your saying that somehow your bithcing is correct and others is not? Your *****ing is superior in some way and different?
I hate to break it to you, but your thread IS "a pointless self serving post". Sorry bro, just own it.
Not meant to single out fruit fans or others at all. The more I read threads here, the more I can only think that the forum is getting cluttered with crap from non-Prime owners, so that folks researching steer clear of the device, as if it were a concerted effort...
Then again, I could just be taking the conspiracy theorist avenue here, unwittingly. Who knows?
In reality, some have GPS issues, BT, Wifi, light bleed. I don't, so maybe that's tainting me. ICS was a fantastic upgrade for me as well, so maybe I'm just tainted toward the positive...
Anybody else?
lmfao this is almost as bad as the whiners and complainers here already, a conspiracy??
Sent from Elvis Presley's TFP (Yeah I'm still here *****es)
Probably. Seems like something Apple would do.
xIC-MACIx said:
lmfao this is almost as bad as the whiners and complainers here already, a conspiracy??
Sent from Elvis Presley's TFP (Yeah I'm still here *****es)
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Not trying to convince anybody, but have thought it for weeks now, and I keep seeing threads and posts that have bolstered my hypothesis (to me).
This is an awful assumption. These issues are real. I would almost think the opposite of your opinion, that people are on here to make the Prime SOUND LIKE THERE ARE NO ISSUES!
All of the people with Perfect Primes, Perfect Screen, Perfect Wifi, Perfect GPS, No Screen Lifting, etc. I have a hard time believe ALL of them, not some of them.
Also, I have seen quotes like "Asus is trying to make it right!" "Asus is a great company." Etc.
Those have to be the biggest LOL statements to say about Asus right now.
I think Asus is behind it. They hate making money.
Lots of the plants seem a bit simple to be prime owners too. Maybe just needs more active moderation now the initial burst of activity is done.
Conspiracy is a strong word! I am sure just about every company highlights the weaknesses of their competitors. An Apple employee once seriously told a friend of mine that Android was unsecure, and it would be easy for bad persons to steal his credit card information if he used that OS. I doubt Apple told this employee to say that, but that kind of stuff goes on everywhere.
There are real issues with the Prime for many people. They are not happy about them, so they are complaining. My Prime has been great, except for a semi-weak GPS. (I can get 9-12 satellites outdoors without wi-fi OFF, but it takes a long time to lock compared to my phone and probably won't work in a moving vehicle.) The wi-fi is probably weak also, but I've never had trouble with it, so I'm fine. I'm sure Asus would love to have this whole Prime development/release to do over! I knew the issues ahead of time (as I am not a super early adopter), but I decided to buy the Prime anyway ... I have a phone for GPS navigation ... and probably would never have used the Prime for that, anyway.
I have no hard feelings toward Asus and feel they are doing their best to make things right. I will buy their products in the future without hesitation. However, since the product design is flawed in the wi-fi / gps arena, they can only do so much ... many people will remain unhappy because Asus really can't make this one completely right.
The prime forums make me want to give up on XDA. No matter what the device if you give two identical ones to two different people they will have different issues. The prime simply has some flaws that may or may not affect you. So does nearly every other product of any kind on the market. So what if they are releasing a another prime device? It's fairly in line with there development cycle. Hell the entire tablet industry is on a short dev cycle right now like smartphones have been.
I know I really enjoy my prime despite the fact it seems to have poor wifi reception and I dislike the power button & charge port placement.
tshoulihane said:
Lots of the plants seem a bit simple to be prime owners too. Maybe just needs more active moderation now the initial burst of activity is done.
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I agree, just need a few more Mod's that have time to work here on this forum. One guy isn't enough to work with 50+ threads a day on the same topic...
Get this guy a tinfoil hat, pronto!
Danny80y said:
I agree, just need a few more Mod's that have time to work here on this forum. One guy isn't enough to work with 50+ threads a day on the same topic...
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+1000000000000000 That's probably more like it. There are blatant troll treads, but you're right about redundant gripe threads, to the point of it seeming like and utter spamfest of a hundred identical threads... by the same people, thread after thread.
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using xda premium
Rogue100 said:
Get this guy a tinfoil hat, pronto!
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Lemme guess.. you reside in, or around, Cupertino?
There's just too many "should I buy it? I hear it sucks" threads for me to think there might be a smear effort going on... and I don't wear kleenex boxes on my feet.
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using xda premium
I was thinking that since we have a single Positive Prime thread, why don't we consolidate the purely dissatisfied threads into one? That way, we are not invalidating complaints that are legitimate, but also not mucking up the front page of the board with complaint thread after complaint thread, most of which are complaining about similar issues. Of course, there are issues that emerge that warrant new threads, like the sleep issue that came out with .13.
I personally have had no issues with my prime, and have no problems with anyone who has had issues. You have legitimate gripes, but I think a new thread for every experience doesn't seem necessary. Much like there shouldn't be a new thread for every good experience, they should just be posted in the Positive Prime Thread.
What you guys think?
Heerocon said:
I was thinking that since we have a single Positive Prime thread, why don't we consolidate the purely dissatisfied threads into one? That way, we are not invalidating complaints that are legitimate, but also not mucking up the front page of the board with complaint thread after complaint thread, most of which are complaining about similar issues. Of course, there are issues that emerge that warrant new threads, like the sleep issue that came out with .13.
I personally have had no issues with my prime, and have no problems with anyone who has had issues. You have legitimate gripes, but I think a new thread for every experience doesn't seem necessary. Much like there shouldn't be a new thread for every good experience, they should just be posted in the Positive Prime Thread.
What you guys think?
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"Love" is general. "Complaints" are specific. "Love" is consistent. "Complaints" are random. Those that "love," love equally. Those with "complaints," vary from device to device. At last tally there were over 300 pages of complaints. The "Positive Transformer Prime Thread" has 35. While it would be nice for those that are happy to banish the complainers to an internment camp, it's not very practical. When Asus’ addresses the issues, the complaints will stop (or at least ratchet down to a typical XDA forum level).
Okay, but....
BarryH_GEG said:
"Love" is general. "Complaints" are specific. "Love" is consistent. "Complaints" are random. Those that "love," love equally. Those with "complaints," vary from device to device. At last tally there were over 300 pages of complaints. The "Positive Transformer Prime Thread" has 35. While it would be nice for those that are happy to banish the complainers to an internment camp, it's not very practical. When Asus’ addresses the issues, the complaints will stop (or at least ratchet down to a typical XDA forum level).
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I don't know that "Banishing" is exactly what the OP had in mind, but I agree it would be impractical. The thread would get too large and quickly, intil Asus gets down to it and takes care of the issues. What IS a bit frustrating is that so many threads get hijacked and TURN INTO complaint threads, no matter what the original premise was.
Another concern of mine (I hate to admit I was thinking about these thread even when offline. The damn Prime general thread has become a train wreck thats hard to look away from) is that thread like "Fanboyism at large on Prime forums?"
In there the guy that is going for "Prime # 9 says that few tech sites may pick up his story. This might be the kind of thing that convinces Asus TO move on, and not continue with Prime manufacture. Too costly, too may returns, RMA reworks, etc. That would NOT be good for those with a "marginal" Prime that works for the most part, but suffers from one item in the long list if issues. Say, Bluetooth Fallout. I am not convinced Asus has that resolved, and if so, then the current "FIX" is HW replacement.
If Asus kills the prime because the complaints convince them its a lost cause, who wins that one? The naysayers, and all the sideliners who have been filling forums with negative comments. THEY win, All Prime owners lose. If they sunset the Prime, in favor of another design, they will likewise either kill any further development, or at least reduce it to almost nothing. Not good.
wow, that was a bit harsh dont you think? I was just trying to suggest a solution to the several threads that have similar complaints, such as the My wifi/gps doesnt work like I want threads, or the "This isn't the tablet I want after having used it." threads. I am not suggesting to BANISH PEOPLE TO AN INTERNMENT CAMP WHERE I WILL ELIMINATE YOU THROUGH RACIAL CLEANSING. Sorry I offended you so greatly haha. This whole board has gotten a little out of control with snapback emotional responses over something that really doesn't deserve it. This is tablet, not the culmination of a racial identity or something that is actually worth being so upset over.
I even said in my first post, that there are issues that are new and emerging that deserve their own threads. I am not attempting to silence people who have legitimate gripes or complaints. I'm just suggesting a little organization. Sorry to offend you.
SmartAs$Phone said:
so many threads get hijacked and TURN INTO complaint threads
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But it's not the people working through issues that cause that. If you look at some of the current problem threads, it's the people not experiencing the issue jumping in with "mine's perfect" and challenging whether the issue even exists that moves the thread away from its original purpose. If people that were happy left the people that aren't alone (at least in issues threads) the threads would be half the size and the problems identified sooner.
BarryH_GEG said:
But it's not the people working through issues that cause that. If you look at some of the current problem threads, it's the people not experiencing the issue jumping in with "mine's perfect" and challenging whether the issue even exists that moves the thread away from its original purpose. If people that were happy left the people that aren't alone (at least in issues threads) the threads would be half the size and the problems identified sooner.
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I think both sides are guilty of this. I've been lurking for a while and seen people demeaning those who have problems, but also people who have problems have been accusing those who have no problems of blatant fanboyism. This is aside from my main point, which is simply organization.
Heerocon said:
This is tablet, not the culmination of a racial identity or something that is actually worth being so upset over.
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People are upset. It's a bit judgemental of you to think they shouldn't be. And coming in rather late to the party without the benefit of the experiences others have had and trying to (re)organize the forum is a bit presumptuous.
I'm by no means offended, but forums are shaped by the "whole" not a few individuals. Since the forum's moderated everyone here has the right and ability to make suggestions to the moderator. It's jerdog and af974 if you want to reach out to them.
If you guys look at some of the recent threads especially with all the firmware update releases. That there is no clear cut on whos side is whos..... with the exception of a few people. People who had problems had a probable fix with an update while the same update caused working primes to have flaws. And who knows what will happen in the next updates. Will it improve your prime or cure it or will it hinder it or even worse render it useless?
This would be my major gripe, that updates are being released with the lack of knowledge on what it will do on the machine. To add to it, is you are constantly reminded to update. And if you do get the bad hand of this round of updates, you are left to deal with it with no chance of reverting back to the previous update, and praying the next update whenever that will be that it will bring your prime back to normal. Which makes prime owners questions Asus's reliability. Yes, you maybe happy with your prime now but where in the emotional roller coaster state will you be in the future updates?
BarryH_GEG said:
People are upset. It's a bit judgemental of you to think they shouldn't be. And coming in rather late to the party without the benefit of the experiences others have had and trying to (re)organize the forum is a bit presumptuous.
I'm by no means offended, but forums are shaped by the "whole" not a few individuals. Since the forum's moderated everyone here has the right and ability to make suggestions to the moderator. It's jerdog and af974 if you want to reach out to them.
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I wasn't saying people should not be upset. I've said in almost every one of my replies, people have legitimate gripes AND HAVE THE RIGHT TO BE UPSET.
I was more talking about you blowing a request for organization out of proportion by calling it "a banishment to an internment camp" which in my opinion is a little inappropriate.
I'm not going to argue about this any further. I am in no way trying to silence anyone. All I SUGGESTED was a consolidation of similar threads to organize things.
Thanks.
a complaint threat won't work. What would work however is a complaint section. There should be a separate section called problems/complaints or problems/issues. Something to that effect. This way everyone who wants to talk about their problems can talk in there, then mods would be free to delete all of the redundant complaint threads from the general section. It really is win win for both sides.
Thank you. All I am looking for is solutions to the obvious problems this board is having with redundancy.
In response to Junrider, should I enter the camp of unsatisfied prime owners, I would like to be able to quickly find people with similar issues and be able to communicate with them effectively instead of sifting through 300 pages of general complaints, trying to find people who are experiencing the same thing. I don't know if that will happen to me but it would be convenient if the threads were organized for people who are experiencing problems.
Heerocon said:
should I enter the camp of unsatisfied prime owners, I would like to be able to quickly find people with similar issues and be able to communicate with them effectively instead of sifting through 300 pages of general complaints, trying to find people who are experiencing the same thing. I don't know if that will happen to me but it would be convenient if the threads were organized for people who are experiencing problems.
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Unfortunately, i dont think it will happen. For every complaint thread you will have people from the other fence commenting:
"If your not happy, return it"
"My prime is working perfectly, i dont get why your shouldn't"
"Its your fault"
"You knew what you were getting yourself into, so why are you complaining?"
"Cool story Bro!"
"already a thread, so why are you making another one?"
ETC.....
This will then get all sides riled up and go off tangent to what the original thread is suppose to be. So sifting through the threads for useful tidbits will be your expertise if you not one yet.
And this thread is not enough for listing the problems of the Prime. This essentially needs more division because the there has been problem threads of the prime's every square inch. From back plate, screen, circuitry, battery, connectors, GPS, wifi, bluetooth, OS, all the updates, apps, and processor.
If i missed something chime in..
SmartAs$Phone said:
I don't know that "Banishing" is exactly what the OP had in mind, but I agree it would be impractical. The thread would get too large and quickly, intil Asus gets down to it and takes care of the issues. What IS a bit frustrating is that so many threads get hijacked and TURN INTO complaint threads, no matter what the original premise was.
Another concern of mine (I hate to admit I was thinking about these thread even when offline. The damn Prime general thread has become a train wreck thats hard to look away from) is that thread like "Fanboyism at large on Prime forums?"
In there the guy that is going for "Prime # 9 says that few tech sites may pick up his story. This might be the kind of thing that convinces Asus TO move on, and not continue with Prime manufacture. Too costly, too may returns, RMA reworks, etc. That would NOT be good for those with a "marginal" Prime that works for the most part, but suffers from one item in the long list if issues. Say, Bluetooth Fallout. I am not convinced Asus has that resolved, and if so, then the current "FIX" is HW replacement.
If Asus kills the prime because the complaints convince them its a lost cause, who wins that one? The naysayers, and all the sideliners who have been filling forums with negative comments. THEY win, All Prime owners lose. If they sunset the Prime, in favor of another design, they will likewise either kill any further development, or at least reduce it to almost nothing. Not good.
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It's funny that you mentioned this. After all of my information gathering and putting together a very compelling story with receipts, pictures, quotes etc... I almost hit the send button last nite. The problem is, I'm concerned(resale value) how this will affect others with a good Prime or if I happen to find one. Currently the Prime is sold out in my area. When Bestbuy receives new units I will give it another go.
March is coming fast, and with it other quad core competitors. It will be interesting to see how the Prime fares when it's not the only quad core tablet on the market. By then the TF300t and TF700t will be making noise.
I agree with op too much out of hand. If people think its warranted then OK. I got several PM from people saying that we should do like the negative posters. As we know the positive ones outnumber those with issues. It was suggested to me that we start making a new thread for everything that works great on our primes. Then that'll let the ones with issues see how it is. Cuz if we started doing that, then we would quickly override n overshadow the issues threads. Which basically has the same people in it posting over n over again. The ones without issues are greater in numbers and therefore if we started making a new thread for every good thing working on our prime then maybe that'll get a message across. Then see how the complaint thread people feel. Cuz we have every right also to make a new thread on all the good stuff also like the complainers do with everything that doesn't work.
So this is the warning..lmao. already there are several just itching to get this started. I was against it n seems extreme but with all the complaint threads, maybe its needed. Just like those complaint threads on a particular issue that people keep making same threads on, Good prime owners can all do the same with the different things that do work. You don't want to get into a numbers war with the good prime owners. All polls already show we majority. So heed the warning. Consolidate complaint threads into 1 for at least each issue. Not just one giant one. 1 positive thread was made for centralization. Don't make us start expanding up n dis mofo..lmao
---------- Post added at 03:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:19 PM ----------
skygunner27 said:
It's funny that you mentioned this. After all of my information gathering and putting together a very compelling story with receipts, pictures, quotes etc... I almost hit the send button last nite. The problem is, I'm concerned(resale value) how this will affect others with a good Prime or if I happen to find one. Currently the Prime is sold out in my area. When Bestbuy receives new units I will give it another go.
March is coming fast, and with it other quad core competitors. It will be interesting to see how the Prime fares when it's not the only quad core tablet on the market. By then the TF300t and TF700t will be making noise.
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You gonna be waiting till June on that buddy..lmfao. plus its already confirmed the TF-300 is not a prime replacement. Its actually a lower spec device for a completely different market sector. It's more like an OG transformer 1.5. Lower spec than the prime..meaning less powerful and less features.
demandarin said:
All polls already show we majority
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Polls changes. Why? Because with every prime firmware update you get working primes that are now showing problems. Before it might a huge landslide win lets say 5:1. Of course we really dont know the actual numbers, but the recent poll on trust on Asus shows maybe a 2:1 on prime owners that are happy with Asus. Gates are open on your happy prime end and people are slowly wandering there way over to the other side. Hopefully, Asus can get their act straight and pick up the consumers that they lost, while still keeping the happy ones.
demandarin said:
I agree with op too much out of hand. If people think its warranted then OK. I got several PM from people saying that we should do like the negative posters. As we know the positive ones outnumber those with issues. It was suggested to me that we start making a new thread for everything that works great on our primes. Then that'll let the ones with issues see how it is. Cuz if we started doing that, then we would quickly override n overshadow the issues threads. <snipped to address this comment>
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To me, the point is every thing that works GREAT does not make it GREAT! We all purchased the Prime expecting to get GREAT. This is a cutting edge device. Sure we might expect a few "glitches" with a new OS (ICS) but we didn't expect to see all the issues we have been seeing. I am actually a pretty happy camper with my Prime but I keep thinking...well I can live with lousy GPS, or I can live with slight light bleeding on one corner, or I can live with that one or two stuck pixels, but the point is, IMO, why should I have to at this price point? Worse issues are constant reboots, poor battery life, sleep of death, a whole plethora of issues. I don't want to pick a nit here but I'm seriously considering waiting for a 100% working device (which would be GREAT) or settling for one that I can live with!
edster00 said:
To me, the point is every thing that works GREAT does not make it GREAT! We all purchased the Prime expecting to get GREAT. This is a cutting edge device. Sure we might expect a few "glitches" with a new OS (ICS) but we didn't expect to see all the issues we have been seeing. I am actually a pretty happy camper with my Prime but I keep thinking...well I can live with lousy GPS, or I can live with slight light bleeding on one corner, or I can live with that one or two stuck pixels, but the point is, IMO, why should I have to at this price point?
I don't want to pick a nit here but I'm seriously considering waiting for a GREAT device or settling for one that I can live with!
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For me, and several others, it is a ggreat device. I don't have to settle for bad light bleed or stuck pixels because I don't have those issues. Its about what you want though. For me, I'm good. No need tl wait. I made a great decision in my Prime and have no regrets. I'm not trying to convince people it is. The ones who satisfied already know it is.
Honestly, if someone is not satisfied and within their return window, just return the device. If its that faulty to where you can't enjoy it, do what you feel is right. If you have a faulty device one way or another and want to ride this train because you know it'll lead to a great place, then welcome aboard. We all prime owners one way or another. No reason for people with good working primes to make those that don't have them feel bad or that they lucked out. No reason for people with faulty devices to try to convince LR rationalize that everyone has a broken Prime. One thing for sure, I'm keeping this mofo. Works to great for me. Hopefully Asus will finally make everyone happy n fix this fiasco of a launch. Its not too late to then this whole thing around. So everyone can be posting how much they are pleased with device. PRIME has too much potential to let it go to waste. Ill ride this train all the way till the end no matter what. This all has been the most enjoyable experience here in xda I've ever had. Its like entertainment. Love the debates. Love the poking fun St each other. A very diverse group of owners up here no doubt and that's what xda is about. Diverse people from all over the world coming together for love of technology and a particular device. EVEN people with faulty devices don't really want to return it.
SO Asus, if you dont want to lose more fans than you already have, you better do something and announce something BIG, fast. PRIME supposed to take peoples minds off of what's coming up. With the large number of defective devices out here, people not going to hesitate to look past prime n jump ship unless you address them ASAP. Get it together Asus. Not fair for some of us to enjoy our devices n others not. You should want everyone to be happy with your product. So in a way, my experience is tainted also because our fellow members can't be happy with their devices. Which the expect nothing less than the best and what you said you would provide. LIVE BY YOUR MOTTO....this is my letter to you Asus......[sheds a tear...lol]
I was kind of playing devil's advocate ... the only real issue with my Prime is the GPS performance while driving, but I am able to wi-fi tether to my phone if for some reason I don't want to use my phone for navigation. I think the "Official" sticky threads are sufficient for reporting issues. I think XDA forum (ASUS Prime section) has deteriorated because of all the overlapping threads.
Sent from my ADR6350 using xda premium
demandarin said:
SO Asus, if you dont want to lose more fans than you already have, you better do something and announce something BIG, fast. PRIME supposed to take peoples minds off of what's coming up. With the large number of defective devices out here, people not going to hesitate to look past prime n jump ship unless you address them ASAP. Get it together Asus. Not fair for some of us to enjoy our devices n others not. You should want everyone to be happy with your product. So in a way, my experience is tainted also because our fellow members can't be happy with their devices. Which the expect nothing less than the best and what you said you would provide. LIVE BY YOUR MOTTO....this is my letter to you Asus......[sheds a tear...lol]
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Aweeee
"HURR DURR THE IPAD IS BETTER IM A TROLL LOL!!!!"
Why do people keep posting this? I wish there was a mass reply button that said "COOL STORY BRO" to all of these people. This is a transformer prime forum. Not a comparison forum. Stuff like that should go into XDA general and stuff about buying in some other part of XDA. There are so many ****posts around here that I just can't believe it. Once again, THIS IS A TRANSFORMER PRIME FORUM. Thank you.
/rant
Sent from my tablet thing with XDA Premium.
I agree. I understand the position that the people who wish to express their dissatisfaction with a product, or to compare it to another, would find this the appropriate forum for such discourse.
But seriously, stroll around some other halo device forums (albeit I concede the title of "halo product" is almost ironic with the Prime given the imminent TF701) and see if they're littered with crappy threads. For the most part? No, they're not. They're where people have discussions about their product that are beneficial for the community to read.
jdeoxys said:
"HURR DURR THE IPAD IS BETTER IM A TROLL LOL!!!!"
Why do people keep posting this? I wish there was a mass reply button that said "COOL STORY BRO" to all of these people. This is a transformer prime forum. Not a comparison forum. Stuff like that should go into XDA general and stuff about buying in some other part of XDA. There are so many ****posts around here that I just can't believe it. Once again, THIS IS A TRANSFORMER PRIME FORUM. Thank you.
/rant
Sent from my tablet thing with XDA Premium.
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I completely agree. I posted something similar in the "Why I left my Prime " thread. I could care less why people leave their Prime or why they feel that the iPad is better. One comparison thread here and there is fine but people are starting this conversation in threads off topic or creating multiple thread topics. Enough already. If I wanted to know about the iPad, I'd go elsewhere or read reviews. I don't buy for an instant that the "former Prime" owners are doing this out of the kindness of their hearts to "inform" us. Again, I could care less and this is NOT why I come to a place like this. I come for community and for device specific advice and device specific software. Period. Seriously, don't these "former Prime " owners have something better to do? Apparently not. The iPad must not be that exciting and stellar of a device if they find the need to expend energy and time comparing it to another device which they recently left.
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using Tapatalk 2 Beta-2
I think people are just butthurt that they don't have the best tablet anymore.
Well, some of the poster might just be trolls, trying to get a rise out of a situaion
Other might be real people with real grievance.
And the third group, would be paid professional "troll" by competator to slant or share false information to get more sale for their product.
As the TF prime is the flagship for the Nvidia Tegra 3 for the Android platform it's the #1 target for competitor.
Popular opinion to ban these posts permanently?
Sent from my PG86100 using xda premium
With apple products the discussion usually resembles a religious discussion. These products mean sooo much more to people than they should.
I hate that this forum has turn into a whiner's circlejerk.
like seriously, if all they're going to post about is how they hate the transformer prime and want to return it, then return it and leave this forum. If they can't - then they should have considered that before buying it.
if you're not searching for solutions then quit posting about problems.
Ditto, every time i log in to the forum its very disheartening to have to wade through tons of negative posts in order to find something interesting. Looking forward to the day it calms down...
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using Tapatalk
Seriously this guy needed to start a thread for that... Boo hoo 1-2% loss means your battery will die in 50 days. I'm sorry your standby isnt a decade.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1557536
People are more inclined to complain on their soapbox then to praise. I love my Prime and don't have any real complaints about it.
EDIT: Returning tomorrow. Just had my first issue, I enabled bluetooth and it killed my WiFi until I disabled it and re-enabled it. That is completely unacceptable. (if you cant tell I'm joking, well join the trolls.)
I just can't deal with the preassure, ugh.. I'm getting a new iPad. Thanks Prime forum.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717
bye bye to everyone who has moved on from prime. good luck. i am sure ur new device will be great!
appreciate, if u dont come back to this forum and spoil it for the ppl who love their primes.
its a win-win situation.!
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using Tapatalk
I don't think there is anything wrong with havinga thread or two, as for the rest just don't post/respond in them they'll dissapear from the front page quickly.
Uberchu said:
I think people are just butthurt that they don't have the best tablet anymore.
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mods should automatically lock a thread once people start posting stupid like this one
I think these TP forums are worst that I have ever seen here. Even the SGS2 forums didnt have this much crap talk about SGS2 vs. iPhone 4S.
I have just ordered my TP and was going to check the forums for something interesting to read. First page of this general section is about iPad or iOS. Dont they have their own forum to discuss about things or what the **** is this?
yeah not sure wtf is going on, I came from a xoom and those forums on here were filled with quality useful post. Not *****ing and whining from the same 15-20 people filling this whole forum up with bs. Plus you got people just coming in to troll because they don't get laid in the the real world.
To answer the OPs question, it's because the people who had real issues and posted about them offended the fanbois in here. So the fanbois started a whole bunch of retaliatory posts of why the Prime is so good and how the people with technical problems were just a bunch of whiners.
So now it's come back full circle to where the people who had problems with their Primes make posts and threads mocking the fanbois.
Solution? Ignore all the lame posts and let them sink down the drain into oblivion.
alanboss said:
Ditto, every time i log in to the forum its very disheartening to have to wade through tons of negative posts in order to find something interesting. Looking forward to the day it calms down...
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using Tapatalk
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This should tell you something
I feel bad for people that ASUS has mislead, truthfully. I loved my prime, I loved the design, the idea of everything about it. Then I got it, played with it, tested it and was extremely disappointed. The quality lacks, enough said.
The reason there is so much negativity is because the Prime, as a product, is lacking for something that if done right, could have been a game changer. The game changer is what everyone expected, is what ASUS advertised, and is what did not deliver. I had to sell mine, almost out of principle. I was very upset in doing so, it could've been so much more.
joeyddr said:
mods should automatically lock a thread once people start posting stupid like this one
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Click to collapse
I thought that too, but I think what he is saying is that Apple people are upset they don't have the best tablet any more, not prime owners.
wgr73 said:
This should tell you something
I feel bad for people that ASUS has mislead, truthfully. I loved my prime, I loved the design, the idea of everything about it. Then I got it, played with it, tested it and was extremely disappointed. The quality lacks, enough said.
The reason there is so much negativity is because the Prime, as a product, is lacking for something that if done right, could have been a game changer. The game changer is what everyone expected, is what ASUS advertised, and is what did not deliver. I had to sell mine, almost out of principle. I was very upset in doing so, it could've been so much more.
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^^
This is an example of someone with a bum unit and is upset... I have had mine 2 months now and wifi is fine screen is fine gps is weak but locks quick (not that i would use a 10.1 inch tablet in my car to navigate lol), if you don't have one anymore why are you in this forum anymore? Not everyone gets a bad device get over it.
http://gizmodo.com/5895145/does-the...lems?utm_medium=referral&utm_source=pulsenews
Sent from my PG86100 using Tapatalk
Thanks to this post suddently the wifi and gps on my Asus EEE Pad Transformer Prime TF201-B1-GR started working properly
Cozmo85 said:
Thanks to this post suddently the wifi and gps on my Asus EEE Pad Transformer Prime TF201-B1-GR started working properly
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Ha! Exactly right. It doesn't make me feel any better that another device, which I don't own and have no intention of buying, has problems. The only way this news is helpful is when arguing with iPhans about how their stuff is perfect. It doesn't make my Prime work any better, and that's little comfort.
I think someone else already started a thread this morning about how pointless these Apple-has-problems-too threads are. Pointing at the problems of others doesn't fix your own problems. It's just deflection.
Is there really a need for this topic?
As you've already posted the same thing in... two?
Seperate Ipad comparasion topic.
So if the Viewsonic ViewPad has a dozen dead pixels does that make it OK for the Prime to have ten? These "see, someone else lowered the bar" posts don't make any sense when trying to justify any devices shortcomings. If a device has an included feature each manufacturer should be held to a high standard making sure it works properly. It'll suck for Apple if the iPad3 does have Wi-Fi issues but that's not an excuse for every other manufacturer to start shipping products with ****ty Wi-Fi.
BarryH_GEG said:
So if the Viewsonic ViewPad has a dozen dead pixels does that make it OK for the Prime to have ten? These "see, someone else lowered the bar" posts don't make any sense when trying to justify any devices shortcomings. If a device has an included feature each manufacturer should be held to a high standard making sure it works properly. It'll suck for Apple if the iPad3 does have Wi-Fi issues but that's not an excuse for every other manufacturer to start shipping products with ****ty Wi-Fi.
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I agree 100%. but this is to show Asus and Prime is not the only one with these type of issues. I know you don't have amnesia. I'm sure you remember in the begging how you n others made it seem like Asus and Prime was the only tablet ever to suffer from issues and being so close to release. well current news on the latest n greatest Ipad shows otherwise. that's all. Aside from that point I just made, what you saying is correct. no company should have all this going on. but electronics are far from perfect, just like man is. so what man creates will be imperfect also. All product companies have issues one way or another. all this new Ipad revelation is just letting current prime owners know, WE ARE NOT ALONE IN ALL THIS. even the best tablet selling device in the world is now experiencing a crisis far larger than prime issues ever was.
Cozmo85 said:
Thanks to this post suddently the wifi and gps on my Asus EEE Pad Transformer Prime TF201-B1-GR started working properly
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Click to collapse
While I agree that it doesn't change anything if you hate your prime so much why not get rid of it? All I see you post is gripes and complaints and it makes no sense to me why you would keep something that makes you cry aloud so much.
It is asinine to me that people would rather constantly complain about something and make no attempt to mitigate the issue, even if that mitigation is just getting rid of it.
dcAndroidFan said:
Ha! Exactly right. It doesn't make me feel any better that another device, which I don't own and have no intention of buying, has problems. The only way this news is helpful is when arguing with iPhans about how their stuff is perfect. It doesn't make my Prime work any better, and that's little comfort.
I think someone else already started a thread this morning about how pointless these Apple-has-problems-too threads are. Pointing at the problems of others doesn't fix your own problems. It's just deflection.
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Click to collapse
This, x1000000000
To bring up ANY other product's flaws, unless that flaw led to a solution that could help, is pointless. So what if 50 other devices have wifi issues too, that just means they potentially made a similar mistake. That does not elevate the prime, nor did it need elevating to begin with. enough finger pointing.
It's probably a mistake even posting on this as it's just going to bump it. But I really agree with the other people. I bought a prime. Yes seeing a thread or two about comparisons with other devices is alright and I enjoy reading them. That being said every other thread this week is iPad. These threads are not contributing and they're not helping or informative to anyone that has a prime.
Really wish people would post on threads already made about THAT topic.
And that's my rant.
@Demandarine... I'm thinking the issues popping up a lot quicker because the volume of ipads sold is wayyyyy more than any other single tablet.
Look, no one cares about the Cult of Steve except for the brain dead cultists.
We don't need posts on Cult of Steve trash in a freaking Android device forum.
Thank you for your willing co-operation.
Col.Kernel said:
Look, no one cares about the Cult of Steve except for the brain dead cultists.
We don't need posts on Cult of Steve trash in a freaking Android device forum.
Thank you for your willing co-operation.
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Actually there's a cult of prime/asus/teg3 going on now too, and its no different than the people that swear by apple to the death.
Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk
This thread has absolutely NOTHING to do with the Transformer Prime other than an attempt to create more discussion about the Prime and the iPad when there are already way too many threads created. Closing this thread. Enough is enough people. Go post in one of the other iPad vs Transformer threads.
Or - better yet - stop comparing - you begin to sound like a bunch of fanbois arguing with other fanbois - and you can't argue with a fanboi.