I come to xda for informed discussion about a device and for device development. I don't know what has happened to these forums, but I do have a few humble suggestions:
1. If you don't have a prime / aren't expecting one / looking to get one / involved in development LEAVE. Go troll elsewhere. It has become too difficult to find useful posts because of all of the BS in this forum. The sheer volume of it is frankly shocking. I don't blame the mod because I know he mods several forums (including my old haunt the mesmerize forum) and you know probably has like a job and ****. Cleaning the amount of crap going on right now is enough to two full time jobs.
2. No offense-actually **** that- every offense intended- if you are debating between this and an iOS device, this is not the forum for you. I'm not saying don't get the prime. I'm sure its just as good for newbies as it is for others, but the very fact that you are considering an iOS device as a prime alternative proves to me that you are in the wrong place. I'm not saying the prime is free of defects or anything-it certainly has its quirks. But half the fun of Linux and open source is the quirks and that you can change anything about your device. Customization and quirks are at the core of Linux.
3. Notice the word developers in the URL of this site. I'm not a Dev, but I am an IT admin and do at least have a clue of what the **** is going on. Unless things have changed, this forum is for people who have a clue. If "#cat brain | grep -i clue" doesn't at least ring a bell than I might suggest finding a different forum to go newb around in. And its okay to be a newbie, just be a good newbie and read a fukton before you come on this site and start cluttering it up with BS.
4. For the love of all that is holy and good in this world, if you are posting about a topic, use the thread that already ****ing exists. Why are there 13,457,598,568 GPS threads. We get it already. It doesn't ****ing work very well. I am not interested in yet another screenshot of you GPS working or not working. Keep that **** in a single thread for those of you all that like that **** for whatever reason and let the rest of us who don't enjoy the GPS screenshot porn go about the rest of our reading. Are you all aware that there is a feature of this website where you can search and find similar topics? Do you not see the little suggestions when you start a new thread that are put there to avoid redundancy in threads? This goes as well for you tf-70005534 next model people and you wifi ppl whatever.
5. Lastly, I have a humble suggestion: the purpose of this lovely forum as I understand it is much like the forum in ancient Greece: for the free flow of useful information and to offer help and support to our fellow citizens prime. SO IF YOU DONT HAVE ANYTHING INFORMATIVE OR HELPFUL GTFO.
/ rant off
I just couldn't stand it anymore. I can hardly stand to enter the general discussion forum anymore.
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using Tapatalk
Really, this thread needs to closed for all the foul language.
Wow - I sure am glad you are here to make sure all us idiots behave.
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using Tapatalk
Right there in your first line you tell them to go away because this forum is for development. No, this is General. There is a separate forum for dev chat, you should go there if you are wanting dev only.
I get more irritated with these types of threads then the fanatics arguing for and against the prime. Lol
sdelliott31 said:
Really, this thread needs to closed for all the foul language.
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It is only about 1% real profanity by word count. I'm sorry to have scarred your virgin eyes.
quietas said:
Right there in your first line you tell them to go away because this forum is for development. No, this is General. There is a separate forum for dev chat, you should go there if you are wanting dev only.
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Actually, this whole website is for development-minded people. hence the name of the website: xda-DEVELOPERS. not xda-whiners or xda-trollers.
It would be nice to have a helpful civil community with helpful post. Its getting hard to use this forum I feel the OPs pain
Theres better way to express things but it won't be possible until the trolls and newbs clear out
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using xda premium
richaoj said:
It is only about 1% real profanity by word count. I'm sorry to have scarred your virgin eyes.
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"#cat brain | grep -i clue"
Is this geekspeak for"I need a life so I can stop nerd raging to people Ill never meet in forums"?
richaoj said:
Actually, this whole website is for development-minded people. hence the name of the website: xda-DEVELOPERS. not xda-whiners or xda-trollers.
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+10000000000000000
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using xda premium
Actually the forum owners realize that the forum itself has branched out far beyond simple development talk. There are reasons that there is a General, Q&A, Dev, and more for each device. People have questions, concerns, interest in accessories, things that are not appropriate for a strictly development forum. Thus the other subforums.
I you want enforced dev talk only, go to the dev forum. It's policed and threads are killed off that are not on topic.
On the flip side, there are a ton of whiners and complainers and those who complain about them.
g1xx3r said:
"#cat brain | grep -i clue"
Is this geekspeak for"I need a life so I can stop nerd raging to people Ill never meet in forums"?
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No those are basic linux commands, you know linux, the os you use. You have heard of it right?
richaoj said:
No those are basic linux commands, you know linux, the os you use. You have heard of it right?
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Not everyone knows Linux like some guy like you.
I'm sure a lot of people understand their Prime, but aren't worried about the inner workings of the OS that this OS was based on.
How you doin'? Greetings from my GT-I9000!
I agree with pistons, but I think we will have to wait for roms to start. That will weed many out.
Rich, just too heavy handed. I sort of agree with you, I am contemplating returning my prime for some of the valid points but also some of the negativity.
I almost think jerdog would be better wiping out this entire forum and not opening it up for like 72 hours for a cooling down period. Problem is, as much as some want to sweep this stuff under the rug, there are legitimate problems, admitted to by Asus. How crazy it has gotten, wow? It's gotten personal and when things get personal, nobody wants to be the one that listens
richaoj said:
No those are basic linux commands, you know linux, the os you use. You have heard of it right?
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I drive a car but have no idea how to build a transmission..Whats your point?
In general I agree with the op. Could he have used a little less profanity? Of course, but that really isn't the point. The fact that a thread like this even has to exist says that something is hugely wrong with this section. And all you guys wonder why users and devs alike leave this site for less hostile forums. The same thing happened in the thunderbolt forum. The device was hyped beyond belief prior to launch, and when it was finally released it was plagued with problems, the abysmal battery life being the most *****ed about. The entire section filled up with battery threads and things got out of control. People got hostile and overly defensive and the trolls came out of the woodwork. The result was several of the main devs leaving for another site. Things have settled down in the tbolt section since and some of those devs have returned, but none of his happened until the trolls got bored and moved on to another device to ***** about. The same thing will happen with the prime. Eventually there will be new tablets to complain about and this section will be left to those who actually own a prime. Eventually we will be able to use this section as a hotbed of information on how to improve our devices, but until then this section seems to have turned into a dumping zone for GPS threads and people complaining and demanding things. It's quite sad really. I sure how we can come out of this ahead because the way things are going now isn't helping anyone.
Sent from my HTC ThunderBolt using XDA App
You all realize this is a commerce site, right? It's not a public service. The owner has a ton of costs in keeping the site up and offsets those costs (and hopefully makes a profit) through advertising. Therefore, the more users the better. Anyone's welcome to create a new site with different ToU if XDA's no longer meeting their needs. Good luck trying to pay for it and attracting the volume of devs and smart people that contribute to XDA.
XDA has grown over the years and is now the largest and most visited site for mobile technology discussion. It's quoted frequently in the press and, as proven by this very forum, helps hold manufacturers accountable (GPS expose, bootloader unlock). The general section is just that and with XDA coming up at the top of a Google search for newbies looking for answers it's going to become more and more mainstream. And as nice as it would be to discuss an issue once and bury it, each day that new people buy a device they are going to keep resurrecting the issue until it's resolved. Hopefully they'll do a search first.
There's a simple way to have a clean and happy front page. Manufacturers should release products that are finished when they're launched and work the way they're supposed to. That applies to everyone, not just Asus.
g1xx3r said:
I drive a car but have no idea how to build a transmission..Whats your point?
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I bet you know how to turn on the headlights though (a closer analogy). =)
Sent from my GT-I9100
+1 for OP message, I agree.
-1 for delivery.
I have to chuckle a little bit. The OP has, what, 78 posts? Kind of a newb himself... This is the place where people come to learn, you are not expected to know everything, hence the questions. Some are lame but they are always answered one way or the other. I love this site, I learn everyday.
Related
Sorry I missed the town hall meeting. I am a noob to Roms and phone moding, I did do a lot with the original xbox back when it was fun to mod. Ok a little off toppic.
One thing that noticed you never looked at is where are your noobs (me) comming in to your site? I have only been looking at roms for about a week. All of the searches that I did about roms and rooting my phone all led me to the "The Bible" and yes where is that located at. Most people will post there they find the information. You might look at moving that post to the general tab as this is going to be one of the first places that a person is going to look to first.
This will also be a place that a noob is going to post so dumb question for the 1,000,000th time. If you expect it, it will not be a bad thing.
And yes I did to a bad flash and spent about 5 hours looking for a way to fix what I did.
Thanks for your time and have a great day/night
Good point. I myself was thinking when I first started to look into flashing ROMs and such and found the bible in the Dev section. The Vibrant Bible has lots of information and should probably be in the General Section as it does draw people to the Dev section instead of General.
Maybe it should be in the Q&A forum as it has lots of both.
One of the biggest problems with this forum seems to be that for a development forum, there is very little actual development going on. Obviously only a select group of people have the knowledge and desire to truly develop custom ROMs, but there's a role others can take too.
I've been involved in other development communities, outside of Android, and I can't recall a community as poisonous as this one. The amount of high level technical discussion is nill. As inexperienced as I am with Android, I can't remember the last post that sent me running to google to read more about something. There seems to be little to no give-and-take between developers, which is typically the most fun of any development group I've been a part of. The goal of working towards any common framework seems non-existant.
The supporters of certain ROMs resemble cults more than critical, helpful users. I can't count the amount of replies I've seen to legitimate questions or criticisms saying nothing more than, "Developer X puts in all this time, so you should just be thankful", or some iteration of that. While possibly true, that's the type of worthless hero worship that provides nothing in a community like this.
Even the individual developer forums are worthless. They're 75% "you're awesome" posts, with the other 25% being bug reports.
Obviously the popularity of XDA has made it a destination for simple support posts in addition to development discussion. I guess that's frustrating, but can be handled through moderation. I know on other forums, if I had nothing to do, I'd sit in the help section and answer posts for a couple hours. I'm sure we've all posted on other forums and received helped we're thankful for. Certainly the level of douchebagery that half the users here show isn't needed.
I don't know. Maybe all Android communities are like this. The fragmentation of the development, even on one divice, definitely doesn't help. But it's not the most enjoyable place to read I've ever found.
This is all you need to know:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=9831517&postcount=3
The town hall closed too soon, closed 5pm eastern time. Sucks for us on the west coast. I was actually typing and clicked send when I noticed the forum already was closed.
scrizz said:
This is all you need to know:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=9831517&postcount=3
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I am sorry that is not all that I needed to know. This was a post for an idea that was not brough up in the town hall. yes I did read the full town hall and no it was never said in the full thread. So before you give a link please make sure of the Question.
That is another reason that you get people pissed off. You have people say "this is all that I need to know" but they did not even look at the full question. This was not a question of what happened in the town hall. It was more like please think of this.
The Bilble thread is a great place for people that are new to star reading about what to do and what not to do. but it really does not have a thing to do about develement.
Thanks for all the other posters I enjoyed the coments.
It seems like every other posted question or comment lately is answered with a smart ass remark or the op is insulted for an honest mistake or posting a question that they didnt realize had already been asked. Yes we know we need to read before posting. Sometimes people just want to ask the question from their point of view. If half of the replies would be helpful answers instead of insulting comments the forums wouldnt get jammed up with "repeat questions". For the most part people seem cool on here and Im just wondering what some others think of this?
Get your flame suit on cause you're about to get toasted for this thread.
But I agree with you. I'm kinda tired of the attitude here but this has been my home for 2 years and I don't plan on leaving. I wish people would drop the attitudes and be more helpful sometimes. It is what it is though. I just turn a blind eye to it.
Cheers
Sent from my SGH-I777 using xda premium
I dont care about being flamed. I see others get flamed all the time on here. If someone is going to post another smart ass comment to my post then they should not bother. I understand people are people and I am not going anywhere either. But it just gets old...
I've noticed, and I agree with you. Unfortunately, it seems as though our forum is slowly starting to turn into most others I've seen. Let's hope it doesn't get worse.
There is absolutely no use in the way some people respond. For some reason, they don't seem to realize that the time they wasted on creating a snarky remark took up more time than just passing the thread by. Usually, someone will be kind enough to provide help or direction. I understand the frustration some times, and think users should be educated on how to go about finding information that already exists. BUT, when it's done with an unnecessary attitude, or worse, attitude is given with no useful help, it accomplishes nothing. It creates an atmosphere that doesn't lend itself to building our community.
I'm normally really quiet on here unless I have some constructive comment or help those that are in need who really need it.
But, the main problem for all the noob question is the lack of direction for noobs to find the info they really need to seek out. Common problem on any type of forum, but is part of how community forums work. Microsoft's community does a good job in controlling this with great help with constructive help on posts given by the moderators and links from others who shared the same type of problem.
Just my 2 pence worth.
Simba501 said:
I've noticed, and I agree with you. Unfortunately, it seems as though our forum is slowly starting to turn into most others I've seen. Let's hope it doesn't get worse.
There is absolutely no use in the way some people respond. For some reason, they don't seem to realize that the time they wasted on creating a snarky remark took up more time than just passing the thread by. Usually, someone will be kind enough to provide help or direction. I understand the frustration some times, and think users should be educated on how to go about finding information that already exists. BUT, when it's done with an unnecessary attitude, or worse, attitude is given with no useful help, it accomplishes nothing. It creates an atmosphere that doesn't lend itself to building our community.
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You just hit the nail on the head!
capathy21 said:
It seems like every other posted question or comment lately is answered with a smart ass remark or the op is insulted for an honest mistake or posting a question that they didnt realize had already been asked. Yes we know we need to read before posting. Sometimes people just want to ask the question from their point of view. If half of the replies would be helpful answers instead of insulting comments the forums wouldnt get jammed up with "repeat questions". For the most part people seem cool on here and Im just wondering what some others think of this?
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The reason is that XDA is traditionally a DEVELOPER forum. Not a CONSUMER forum.
Yes, the original purpose of XDA has expanded, however back in the day, this site was mostly focused on technical issues. Rather than asking a simple and probably already answered question, *everyone* searched and searched again to find an answer. And if that didn't work, it was preferably to PM someone a question over starting a whole thread titled: "X thing that I'm trying to do doesn't work. Please help me!!! Sorry I'm a n00b!!!"".
There are no "stupid" question per se (though really, some folks around here push that boundary to its absolute limit), but there are plenty of already answered questions floating around. Even the OP's question/comment has been addressed millions of times before around here. Experienced XDA users get annoyed when people ask those same questions over and over again. And even though everyone says "I searched but couldn't find an answer for X", usually that's not really true. They may have quickly tried a single search term in the Vbulletin search, then probably gave up. They almost certainly haven't read the official XDA rules, and certainly haven't tried creative ways of finding the answer they are looking for.
This IS A DEVELOPER COMMUNITY. If you can't be bothered to try more than a few minutes of searching, then you are lazy, and it's not really worth the time of others to respond. Hence the flaming, and the anger, and the people attacking n00bs for already-answered questions. This is not a "community support forum" for those people who just picked up a new device and what to "r00tz that ****z" so they can play pirated games and tether for free. This is a community for people to work together on technical aspects of our amazing devices, and squeeze every drop of power from the silicon/glass/plastic devices we all love so much. Yes, people are people, not everyone will search properly, and yes, the majority user-base of XDA has changed a lot over the past 3-4 years. That doesn't mean you can just do whatever you want and not follow the clearly posted XDA rules. And it doesn't mean you have the right to post threads of "OMFG I can't believe how mean all these people who donate their time for free to the community are". Get over it. If you want to idly chat and whine about this that and the other, there are plenty of other places on the internet to do that. XDA is not the place.
Originally, there was very little hostility around XDA over stupid or silly threads. This was because they were so rare, and were often honest mistakes. I don't want to read about your whining and complaining about people being mean. You're right, I *could* just skip over the thread and not say anything (which, undoubtedly, many folks are given the responses so far). But you posted it in the Galaxy S2 i777 General Forum. This thread has nothing to do with the i777 GS2. Whine elsewhere, or be flamed. That's the long and short of it.
Good luck and welcome to XDA!
I have noticed this and commented on it in other threads also. The forum has went to **** the past few months.
I have been on this account for almost 3 years on here and 2 before that with another account so i have seen the changes. The reason there are so many newbs and questions is because Android and tablet use has exploded in the past year and half.
Sent from my SGH-I897 using xda premium
Agreed with OP, I am an active member on the NOOKcolor forum and I've tried to help newbies over and over and over and over and over and over again.
Yes, today newbie A asks a question, next week, newbie B ask the same question, and so on. Not only me but entire XDA members in NC room politely answering all and guide them through each step. Coming into this SGS2 room, geez, reading posts/responses really disappointed. Developers are great but power users seem to be God and expect every newbie has to know before asking. Duh, really?
I don't know if before they know about those stuff, when they were still newbie, didn't anyone showed them nicely step by step or just yelled at them like they do now
People can be assholes. Yes, most of the time it is uncalled for. i try to help when I can, because I hope someone will help me when I need it. But, at the same time, people need to learn to try to help themselves. See my sig.
We were all newbs at one point - even still, it's expected that everyone, newb and veteran alike are to read the rules and use the search function.
It's all well and good that someone makes an honest mistake by posting the same threads over again, but when it happens by every Joe Blow that comes in here, two or more times a week, and there's already 10 threads on the same topic, and said person never thought to use the search function, has **** grammar and syntax even asking their question or making a "Galaxy S II vs. ?" for the 18th time, it pisses those of us off that actually used our brain when we came here.
See, you got it all wrong: XDA wasn't made for you and I - it is a DEVELOPER'S forum. They were kind enough to let the average user sign up, expecting us to be knowledgeable enough not to be asshats that make a hundred of the same threads. Being self-entitled, thinking that the users who want to keep the developers actually developing, not answering bull**** questions for the 15th time are in the wrong for being firm, even harsh with people that don't, then there's the door. You either help the developers or get out of the way. If the developers or power users are kind enough to help answer certain questions once or twice, then count it as a blessing. DON'T even get mad when those people are then annoyed because the newb doesn't abide by rules or use their brain.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using xda premium
votinh said:
Agreed with OP, I am an active member on the NOOKcolor forum and I've tried to help newbies over and over and over and over and over and over again.
Yes, today newbie A asks a question, next week, newbie B ask the same question, and so on. Not only me but entire XDA members in NC room politely answering all and guide them through each step. Coming into this SGS2 room, geez, reading posts/responses really disappointed. Developers are great but power users seem to be God and expect every newbie has to know before asking. Duh, really?
I don't know if before they know about those stuff, when they were still newbie, didn't anyone showed them nicely step by step or just yelled at them like they do now
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When I was a n00b I read XDA for hours and hours before I would consider posting. And I tried very hard to read as much as possible before asking questions. That's how a n00b becomes a power user. By learning on their own. Plus, if asked with humility, and a sincere effort to "search before posting", you'll find people tend to not actually get flamed. It's only when people express their feeling of entitlement to an answer they could have probably discovered themselves that problems begin to brew...
Shammyh said:
The reason is that XDA is traditionally a DEVELOPER forum. Not a CONSUMER forum.
Yes, the original purpose of XDA has expanded, however back in the day, this site was mostly focused on technical issues. Rather than asking a simple and probably already answered question, *everyone* searched and searched again to find an answer. And if that didn't work, it was preferably to PM someone a question over starting a whole thread titled: "X thing that I'm trying to do doesn't work. Please help me!!! Sorry I'm a n00b!!!"".
There are no "stupid" question per se (though really, some folks around here push that boundary to its absolute limit), but there are plenty of already answered questions floating around. Even the OP's question/comment has been addressed millions of times before around here. Experienced XDA users get annoyed when people ask those same questions over and over again. And even though everyone says "I searched but couldn't find an answer for X", usually that's not really true. They may have quickly tried a single search term in the Vbulletin search, then probably gave up. They almost certainly haven't read the official XDA rules, and certainly haven't tried creative ways of finding the answer they are looking for.
This IS A DEVELOPER COMMUNITY. If you can't be bothered to try more than a few minutes of searching, then you are lazy, and it's not really worth the time of others to respond. Hence the flaming, and the anger, and the people attacking n00bs for already-answered questions. This is not a "community support forum" for those people who just picked up a new device and what to "r00tz that ****z" so they can play pirated games and tether for free. This is a community for people to work together on technical aspects of our amazing devices, and squeeze every drop of power from the silicon/glass/plastic devices we all love so much. Yes, people are people, not everyone will search properly, and yes, the majority user-base of XDA has changed a lot over the past 3-4 years. That doesn't mean you can just do whatever you want and not follow the clearly posted XDA rules. And it doesn't mean you have the right to post threads of "OMFG I can't believe how mean all these people who donate their time for free to the community are". Get over it. If you want to idly chat and whine about this that and the other, there are plenty of other places on the internet to do that. XDA is not the place.
Originally, there was very little hostility around XDA over stupid or silly threads. This was because they were so rare, and were often honest mistakes. I don't want to read about your whining and complaining about people being mean. You're right, I *could* just skip over the thread and not say anything (which, undoubtedly, many folks are given the responses so far). But you posted it in the Galaxy S2 i777 General Forum. This thread has nothing to do with the i777 GS2. Whine elsewhere, or be flamed. That's the long and short of it.
Good luck and welcome to XDA!
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I did not post this to "whine". I posted it because if I am reading something I get sick of smart ass responses. It may have been a developer only forum at one time but it no longer is. I along with many other people here are in no way developers, but know a little bit about it compared to the average joe and want to learn more. I greatly appreciate the hard working devs who donate their time and genius minds so that we can get the most out of our devices. Its not my first rodeo on a device forum by any means. They are designed for people to help others and learn. There is no place for the attitude. Period.
Shammyh said:
The reason is that XDA is traditionally a DEVELOPER forum. Not a CONSUMER forum.
This IS A DEVELOPER COMMUNITY.
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I've been on XDA for a little over a year, I think...ever since I got the captivate. I think I may have 1 or 2 posts in the development forum and 10 or 11 in the general forums. I have spent countless hours searching, reading, searching some more and reading some more until I got the answer I needed for my particular question. Almost 100% of the issues people ask about have been answered before.
That said, I think you're off of on a couple of your bolded comments. This is just as much of a consumer forum as it is a developers forum. The developers themselves have made it that way.
Nearly all google searches about android issues point to some XDA thread. Developers work hard and are often times compensated for their work (donations.) Although, I do not think the main driving force for their hard work is donations. They do it because they love it and they want to share their work with the CONSUMERS that frequent this site.
Flaming an unsuspecting consumer, who may not have done enough research on their own, into oblivion only has negative effects. That person may be a donator that decides to leave, for example. I've used the forum search on a number of occasions and to be honest, it is quite cumbersome...there is just so much data to go through. That doesn't stop me but it is quite frustrating some times.
I think a more effective strategy for dealing with consumers, who may not be as diligent at researching as most, would be to simply ignore the post. This will force them to do more research on their own. Now, you have a user who does more research on their own and you don't look like a ****.
Flaming is pointless. Those that do it are jerks.
Shammyh said:
When I was a n00b I read XDA for hours and hours before I would consider posting. And I tried very hard to read as much as possible before asking questions. That's how a n00b becomes a power user. By learning on their own. Plus, if asked with humility, and a sincere effort to "search before posting", you'll find people tend to not actually get flamed. It's only when people express their feeling of entitlement to an answer they could have probably discovered themselves that problems begin to brew...
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Yup, in addition to one of the links in my sig being STRONGLY recommended reading:
Whenever I purchase a device, I always spend at least an hour or two a day for 2-3 days reading the forums for that device to learn its ins and outs before I post ANYTHING. Actually, in many cases, I do that before even purchasing.
XDA has clearly stated rules, and Rule #1 is to search before posting. In addition, any new users has to watch the infamous "Noob on XDA" video as part of the registration process now.
So there is NO excuse for not searching. Especially when a user posts a new thread with:
1) A question from the FAQ - it is there for a reason
2) A question that has already been covered in MULTIPLE topics that are still on the first 1-2 pages of the forum. It takes 30 seconds to skim through a page of thread titles - but users insist that someone else spend 2-3 minutes digging up a thread for them instead of spending a minute to read thread titles.
Yes, sometimes we can spend almost as much time on the flame - but at least that lets us relieve our stress at yet another user who thinks they deserve special treatment and doesn't have to follow the rules.
Edit: As to just ignoring a post - A user that didn't bother to search won't go away. They'll do something even more annoying like creating yet another NEW thread, posting a thread in Development because it wasn't answered in General or Q&A, or bumping their thread after only 12 hours. They only way they'll learn any lesson is to get a little toasty.
While donations are nice, the kind of user who comes with the kind of sense of self-entitlement that gets them flamed isn't going to donate anyway. Plus I could get quadruple the donations I've received in 3 months, and I'd still wind up with less than half a week's pay at my real job.
The amount of time one will spend searching and reading will be FAR less than the time you waste because you didn't read and screwed something up.
"Give a man a fish, you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, you feed him for life." (Yeah, I mangled that slightly...)
This is a DEVELOPERS forum, it always has been and always will be. Without developers, it's no different than Android Central or any other forum.
Ok there wouldnt be anyone giving noobs attitude if they just followed the rules. **** they even make you watch a video b4 becoming a member here. If you have a question chances are someone has already asked/answered it. There is a search bar for a reason. USE IT! If not the by all means go ahead and post Im 100% sure you wont get **** for it. They even have a suggested thread dropdown when creating a new one, hoping someone sees that there has already been a threat opened pertaining to that particular subject. Its frustrating to other uzers who read these fourms day in and day out seeing some kid with one post asking the same question someone had already posted 3 times now. simply put quit being lazy and search just like everyone else here has b4 they asked a question.
Shammyh said:
The reason is that XDA is traditionally a DEVELOPER forum. Not a CONSUMER forum.
Yes, the original purpose of XDA has expanded, however back in the day, this site was mostly focused on technical issues. Rather than asking a simple and probably already answered question, *everyone* searched and searched again to find an answer. And if that didn't work, it was preferably to PM someone a question over starting a whole thread titled: "X thing that I'm trying to do doesn't work. Please help me!!! Sorry I'm a n00b!!!"".
There are no "stupid" question per se (though really, some folks around here push that boundary to its absolute limit), but there are plenty of already answered questions floating around. Even the OP's question/comment has been addressed millions of times before around here. Experienced XDA users get annoyed when people ask those same questions over and over again. And even though everyone says "I searched but couldn't find an answer for X", usually that's not really true. They may have quickly tried a single search term in the Vbulletin search, then probably gave up. They almost certainly haven't read the official XDA rules, and certainly haven't tried creative ways of finding the answer they are looking for.
This IS A DEVELOPER COMMUNITY. If you can't be bothered to try more than a few minutes of searching, then you are lazy, and it's not really worth the time of others to respond. Hence the flaming, and the anger, and the people attacking n00bs for already-answered questions. This is not a "community support forum" for those people who just picked up a new device and what to "r00tz that ****z" so they can play pirated games and tether for free. This is a community for people to work together on technical aspects of our amazing devices, and squeeze every drop of power from the silicon/glass/plastic devices we all love so much. Yes, people are people, not everyone will search properly, and yes, the majority user-base of XDA has changed a lot over the past 3-4 years. That doesn't mean you can just do whatever you want and not follow the clearly posted XDA rules. And it doesn't mean you have the right to post threads of "OMFG I can't believe how mean all these people who donate their time for free to the community are". Get over it. If you want to idly chat and whine about this that and the other, there are plenty of other places on the internet to do that. XDA is not the place.
Originally, there was very little hostility around XDA over stupid or silly threads. This was because they were so rare, and were often honest mistakes. I don't want to read about your whining and complaining about people being mean. You're right, I *could* just skip over the thread and not say anything (which, undoubtedly, many folks are given the responses so far). But you posted it in the Galaxy S2 i777 General Forum. This thread has nothing to do with the i777 GS2. Whine elsewhere, or be flamed. That's the long and short of it.
Good luck and welcome to XDA!
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And it's the responses like this that go on this 'better than you' mentality trip that are starting to make it not as enjoyable. It's a crock of crap. XDA wouldn't be as big as it is had it stayed strictly a developer community. And the devs wouldn't get as many donations either. I do agree that there are some that abuse that 'New Thread' button. But in all honesty, the search feature on forums isn't that great. Also, some of the contributing members here didn't start out knowing what they're doing. They aquired that knowledge here. So instead of flaming, giving a [email protected] comment, or telling then how to fix it, why don't more people 'teach them to fish'. I may not know a ton about the SGSII, but I sure try to help anyone I can. I am, however, probably one of the most knowledge people on here when it comes to the automotive field. You can only imagine the crazy stuff people come up with to ask on the auto forums, but I've never just blew them off cause they couldn't find it using search. I've just found it and pointed them the right direction. And if the info isn't out there already, I try to explain to them the mechanics behind it to try to educate them a little more than they already are. I can't stand the ones that just spit out some action to try with no explination as to why to try this or that. At some point, that extra knowledge may come in handy and hopefully save that person some coin on getting their transportation back on the road. So having said that, why don't we all get a long and help each other out? I initialy came here looking for help, but I stuck around because of the great community. I'd hate to see people never come back because of a few people ruining the atmosphere of the community.
bigblue95z said:
And it's the responses like this that go on this 'better than you' mentality trip that are starting to make it not as enjoyable. It's a crock of crap. XDA wouldn't be as big as it is had it stayed strictly a developer community. And the devs wouldn't get as many donations either. I do agree that there are some that abuse that 'New Thread' button. But in all honesty, the search feature on forums isn't that great. Also, some of the contributing members here didn't start out knowing what they're doing. They aquired that knowledge here. So instead of flaming, giving a [email protected] comment, or telling then how to fix it, why don't more people 'teach them to fish'. I may not know a ton about the SGSII, but I sure try to help anyone I can. I am, however, probably one of the most knowledge people on here when it comes to the automotive field. You can only imagine the crazy stuff people come up with to ask on the auto forums, but I've never just blew them off cause they couldn't find it using search. I've just found it and pointed them the right direction. And if the info isn't out there already, I try to explain to them the mechanics behind it to try to educate them a little more than they already are. I can't stand the ones that just spit out some action to try with no explination as to why to try this or that. At some point, that extra knowledge may come in handy and hopefully save that person some coin on getting their transportation back on the road. So having said that, why don't we all get a long and help each other out? I initialy came here looking for help, but I stuck around because of the great community. I'd hate to see people never come back because of a few people ruining the atmosphere of the community.
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Uhh, most of the developers and users here couldn't care less how "big" XDA is. And second, as Entropy512 pointed out, most devs don't care tremendously about donations. Yea, when I really like something, or have some extra cash, I'll kick a developer a few extra bucks. But it's not really about donations or popularity. And I don't think a single Dev here is actually living off of the donations from XDA users...
And further... if you check my post history, you'd see I in fact do try to "teach people to fish" all the time. And more often than not, I'll just answer a n00b question rather than flame. And yes, the Forum search isn't the best, hence why a Google "site:xda-developers.com YourSearchTermHere" is a useful alternative.
XDA is not a n00b friendly forum. If you're a new user looking to learn about Android or phones or whatever for the first time... there are other places to do that. It's called "xda-DEVELOPERS" for a reason.
Devs have holier that thou attitudes. They act like they shouldn't be bothered by stupid nub questions. Yet they feel compelled to answer them and ***** about doing so...
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using xda premium
use the search function and this will not happen.
/thread
Our Shooter development forum has been a roller coaster ride over the past several weeks. Everything from developers taking their talents elsewhere to the unthinkable (HBoot downgrade) happening. As a fairly new, by XDA standards, member of these amazing forums, I want to know some people's honest opinions on what it will (or might) take to get our development forum back to what it's capable of being. In an ideal situation, we'd be able to have any lost developers come back and be able to share their contributions to our phones without any drama or repercussions for doing so. I mean no harm and I don't want bad feelings or bad memories being brought up, I just want what's best for XDA, XDA's members, and the developers that choose XDA to share their talents. I miss when XDA was fun and I want that back. I know there are many other members and developers out there that want the same.
Also, Moderators, please feel free to lock or delete this thread if it becomes a flame war or we start getting people trolling for no reason and adding nothing to this post. Also, please don't start throwing accusations around and all that. I want this to be a collaborative thought session from anybody who is willing to offer any constructive and positive feedback or ideas.
“To err is human; to forgive, divine” -- Alexander Pope.
mike.r.olson said:
Our Shooter development forum has been a roller coaster ride over the past several weeks. Everything from developers taking their talents elsewhere to the unthinkable (HBoot downgrade) happening. As a fairly new, by XDA standards, member of these amazing forums, I want to know some people's honest opinions on what it will (or might) take to get our development forum back to what it's capable of being. In an ideal situation, we'd be able to have any lost developers come back and be able to share their contributions to our phones without any drama or repercussions for doing so. I mean no harm and I don't want bad feelings or bad memories being brought up, I just want what's best for XDA, XDA's members, and the developers that choose XDA to share their talents. I miss when XDA was fun and I want that back. I know there are many other members and developers out there that want the same.
Also, Moderators, please feel free to lock or delete this thread if it becomes a flame war or we start getting people trolling for no reason and adding nothing to this post. Also, please don't start throwing accusations around and all that. I want this to be a collaborative thought session from anybody who is willing to offer any constructive and positive feedback or ideas.
“To err is human; to forgive, divine” -- Alexander Pope.
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I think all it would take is for people to stop being whinning, ungrateful douche bags. That is all. Devs are getting run off by people who whine and bi**h about every little thing. Everyone needs to realize that these devs are doing this for free and not asking for anything in return. Once everyone can do that and be grateful, I think a lot will change but it will not change everything. Some devs are gone and not coming back. At least gone to the 3D forums.
That's just my feeling on the subject.
Sent from my Anthrax infected 3D!
If I've helped you in any way... hit the "Thanks" button.
Also, here's what I use for reference when I want to know how well a thread can be run. Check out the MIUI thread (http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1271824). Team D3rp has done a fantastic job of making that thread a pleasure to read with even a few laughs here and there. Yeah it gets off topic every once in a while, but that's what FRIENDS do. They cut up and have a good time all while maintaining the same objective.
XDA isn't amazing, it's just the most popular. There are many issues here dealing with maturity, drama, and so on. The developers aren't some gods that should be worshipped and defended no matter what. The problem we have here is that too many people try to speak on behalf of devs, causing a lot of unnecessary drama.
In a perfect world, devs would post their work, and people would use it, figure out what could make it better, and continue from there. But here, if someone says something even a little derogatory towards a developer, they get teamed up on and attacked for it. Even though this is a free thing, and these people aren't paid to do this, they release their work to the public and as such they deserve criticism where needed. I've seen a lot of devs accept such criticism and work with it, but still people feel the need to defend them to the end. Devs aren't perfect, they aren't flawless people. Quite a few of them are attention seekers. People need to stop taking battles into their own hands. They need to realize that it just doesn't help.
There's too much of a focus on being the first to get something done, as well.
I agree that the developers should be subject to and even welcome constructive criticism, as long as it isn't a "THIS ROM SUCKS!!!eleven" kind of useless post. How else would one make their ROM/kernel/mod/theme better without worthwhile feedback? Maybe put a 10/15 word minimum on replies in the development and themes/apps sections?
One of things that drives me nuts is that people don't read the OP, won't even ATTEMPT to search for a solution to a problem, then they ***** & moan in threads like they are entitled to a answer in 2min from posting.
Sent from my PG86100 using xda premium
SketchyStunts said:
One of things that drives me nuts is that people don't read the OP, won't even ATTEMPT to search for a solution to a problem, then they ***** & moan in threads like they are entitled to a answer in 2min from posting.
Sent from my PG86100 using xda premium
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Maybe a larger, more dominant "Search This Post" button?
Perhaps a more larger, dominant brain in their heads?
Odoslané z môjho HTC EVO 3D X515m cez Tapatalk
mike.r.olson said:
I agree that the developers should be subject to and even welcome constructive criticism, as long as it isn't a "THIS ROM SUCKS!!!eleven" kind of useless post. How else would one make their ROM/kernel/mod/theme better without worthwhile feedback? Maybe put a 10/15 word minimum on replies in the development and themes/apps sections?
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some thoughts (basicly what it would take for me to post my work back on XDA again)
specific to the end-users and developers on xda:
..i have no problem is people tell me my work sucks.. but tell me WHY
---seriously, look at my work in the past, a user reported an issue, i busted my ass to fix it the same day the issue was reported, sometimes causing 2-3 releases in the same day
..instead of posting issues in XDA or any other forum, i ask you use my issue tracking site, so i have all the problems in one place, and everyone can see the status and updates of reported issues, including the person who reported it. (i honestly do not read every single post on my threads, i dont have the time... so if you have an issue, and you dont post it on my issue tracking site, dont expect to have it fixed..)
..i do have a problem when people make things personal or accuse anyone of any wrong doing without proof. even if they had proof, it should be done in PM and and not in public forum, or brought to the attention of a Sr. Mod if the PMs are not responed to.
..people should show common courtasy and respect when a developer (or anyone) gives them something for free. if you dont like it, move on....dont troll the developers thread.
..if you do not own the device covered by my thread, dont post in my thread, dont report my thread, dont down-rate my thread. If you do own the device, but dont use my software, the only thing you should be posting in my thread is questions about said software.
..understand ALL developers here are doing you a favor by giving you something for free...they sometimes spend days/weeks on something and just GIVE IT TO YOU
..<MOST> people will treat YOU like you treat THEM, if your an ass, expect to be treated like an ass.
..i dont expect to be treated any different than a non-developer, but i ask for basic respect...is this asking too much?
i know im not the only person on XDA that feels this way, but I am prolly the only one who will speak my mind.
+1 Chad.
That's for giving a developers point of view on the subject.
Also, I agree that developers should not be treated like Gods. They should be given respect for what they do though.
Sent from my Anthrax infected 3D!
If I've helped you in any way... hit the "Thanks" button.
That's the problem of using a forum to organize all of this stuff.
chad.goodman said:
some thoughts (basicly what it would take for me to post my work back on XDA again)
specific to the end-users and developers on xda:
..i have no problem is people tell me my work sucks.. but tell me WHY
---seriously, look at my work in the past, a user reported an issue, i busted my ass to fix it the same day the issue was reported, sometimes causing 2-3 releases in the same day
..instead of posting issues in XDA or any other forum, i ask you use my issue tracking site, so i have all the problems in one place, and everyone can see the status and updates of reported issues, including the person who reported it. (i honestly do not read every single post on my threads, i dont have the time... so if you have an issue, and you dont post it on my issue tracking site, dont expect to have it fixed..)
..i do have a problem when people make things personal or accuse anyone of any wrong doing without proof. even if they had proof, it should be done in PM and and not in public forum, or brought to the attention of a Sr. Mod if the PMs are not responed to.
..people should show common courtasy and respect when a developer (or anyone) gives them something for free. if you dont like it, move on....dont troll the developers thread.
..if you do not own the device covered by my thread, dont post in my thread, dont report my thread, dont down-rate my thread. If you do own the device, but dont use my software, the only thing you should be posting in my thread is questions about said software.
..understand ALL developers here are doing you a favor by giving you something for free...they sometimes spend days/weeks on something and just GIVE IT TO YOU
..<MOST> people will treat YOU like you treat THEM, if your an ass, expect to be treated like an ass.
..i dont expect to be treated any different than a non-developer, but i ask for basic respect...is this asking too much?
i know im not the only person on XDA that feels this way, but I am prolly the only one who will speak my mind.
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And hopefully we can get most of this accomplished. As I say in my other forums and it works.
If you see trolls report them, don't feed them. If you ignore them and report them we can get rid of them. If you fight with them we have to sort out who the trolls actually are.
Sent from my PG86100 using xda premium
The problem XDA wide is how aggressive everyone has become. It's not just developers, but users too. I read probably 100 threads every day looking for news stories and here's how it always goes:
1. Developer releases something
1a. Someone starts a thread in, say, General and says something.
2. Trolls
3. Everyone is angry
4. Developers leave.
The 5 things that would at least calm it down.
1. If there's a problem, report it to the mods. Too many regular users are trying to be ma and pa XDA and that causes a lot of problems. You think something is a kang or someone isn't following the rules: report to the mods and present proof. They'll look into it and make a decision. Live with that decision. (affects: users and developers)
2. If you don't like something, stay away from it. So many people post in dev threads for stuff they don't use just to cause problems. If you don't use it or don't like it, then get away from it. (affects: users and developers)
3. Stop demanding things from people. They aren't your slaves, you don't pay them and they don't owe you anything. In the old days, developers worked at their own pace and released things and users were just happy to have em. Now, users seem to have this "I'm entitled" attitude and it's wrong. You don't pay for XDA, ads do (exceptions being XDA Premium App owners and donators...but you guys do it because you love XDA, not because you expect something out of it). You don't pay for development...no one pays for development. It's a hobby to these people and they do it out of the kindness of their hearts. Be happy with what you have, be excited for what you're getting and quit running around like you're all that.
4. I'd say something similar about the developers, but Sora is ma and pa XDA today and took care of that for me.
5. This site is based around development and collaboration, not "you owe me a rom" or "where's our ICS" or "wah wah wah". Collaborating, developing and respecting one another, then things will be much better.
lastly, to those with sanity left...lead by example. This goes to devs and users alike. If you see someone trolling, don't respond to them. If you see someone acting a fool, don't respond to them. If you ignore bullies (even e-bullies), they eventually go away. Gotta stop letting them get under everyone's skin because then it shows that they can get under your skin and they'll keep getting under your skin. Who wants that?!
Good to see Chad still here. Stick around Chad! We got pstevep assigned to the 3D forums now, things are gonna get better!
just started reading in here for not so long, but noticed, that so many users think, the devs HAVE to publish their work, that they HAVE to include everything into a rom.
especially the thing with the camera and stuff on the evo 3d. like the devs have to get it work.
stop whining and shouting. if it's too slow for you guys, start doing it on your own.
in my opinion, if you, users always complaining about stuff, dont stop it, the devs will leave and won't publish any roms. so who's going to miss something? right, just you. the devs have their own roms. maybe they'll they in touch with other devs just talking about their work etc. but if they stop releasing their stuff, nobody will have custom roms any more, except you start programming your own...
so stop it, be happy with the stuff the devs provide and just report bugs, if there are any. or just say something, that may be a good feature of a rom
Besides Joel leaving I think things have been a lot better recently! If I do say so myself.
Joel is a great dev and those who care will follow him. I think people just got frustrated by all his projects but I myself enjoyed following the bleeding edge of his ports. But to each his own.
I believe at some point he will be back until then everybody should just try hard to be nice to eachother so the great devs will have a nice place to come back to.
Sent from my PG86100 using xda premium
This is awesome. Let's keep it going. I love when we can have troll/flame free discussions.
The thing that I don't get is the ones that go out of their way to post crap on people's threads that is useless just to be a smartass, troll or flame. If you don't like the topic, think it's stupid other whatever just move on and don't bother intruding on the persons post and degrading him. I mean what is the point in doing it really? It accomplishes nothing at all and results in another thread closing and why waste the time typing the nonsense in the first place
Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk 2 Beta-2
The first thing i ever noticed about XDA, coming from Villainrom was that the users on XDA had a lot less time for you, I adapted quickly and have had run ins before.
Some people just get shot down in flames for asking a question, whether they're noobs or whether they're just stuck asking a question in a section and getting no responses, it can be hard for someone to get an answer, typically when they're new.
If you want a perfect forum, then create rules, if people don't adhere to those forum rules, then they leave, it's as simple as that.
As for the developers, well this place wouldn't be what it is today without developers, but they do it because they want to, they want to work at making something better and then share it with people, if people have have a question then they should be able to ask away.
Some of the OPS don't have a lot of info in them either, if someone asks about something which is quite clearly in the OP then they should get face palmed i get that, but not if they don't understand something and didn't want to spend an hour trudging through 300 pages to find an answer, then someone sarcastically turns around to them and says "Use the search button DOH" or USE SEARCH ----> or something which you'd expect from a spoilt kid.
Plus the search function isn't the best on XDA, sometimes it just doesn't work.
Myself, i think the one thing which has scared all the dev's off is the 3d, no one has been able to crack that yet (on the newer roms), if it were a single camera and it wasn't 3d, i think it would be more popular than the sensation.
mike.r.olson said:
Our Shooter development forum has been a roller coaster ride over the past several weeks. Everything from developers taking their talents elsewhere to the unthinkable (HBoot downgrade) happening. As a fairly new, by XDA standards, member of these amazing forums, I want to know some people's honest opinions on what it will (or might) take to get our development forum back to what it's capable of being. In an ideal situation, we'd be able to have any lost developers come back and be able to share their contributions to our phones without any drama or repercussions for doing so. I mean no harm and I don't want bad feelings or bad memories being brought up, I just want what's best for XDA, XDA's members, and the developers that choose XDA to share their talents. I miss when XDA was fun and I want that back. I know there are many other members and developers out there that want the same. ...
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The short answer, IMHO, is to have more people on here learning how to develop and contribute than just using and requesting features. The respect and entitlement issues a lot of people attribute to XDA are also far from being unique to this site, they're issues with the Android community as a whole.
There are far too many people who would rather just throw money out there to anyone who can make their phone do cool ****, and, while there is absolutely nothing wrong with donating to someone for their time, when you start putting it out there too much you get people whose only concern is hustling others out of money and the whole open source model collapses.
edit: As others have also mentioned, if you see something disprespectful, innappropriate or you don't think it belongs in your thread, etc., please hit the little triangle on the top right of the post and report it. On a site with this much traffic it's impossible to see everything that goes on and you all would be shocked if you knew about some of the stuff that gets by without anyone reporting it. It also makes it much easier for us to deal with and recognize those who have a habit of causing trouble.
I know many may disagree. But I need to get this off of my chest. I get tired of people that don't want to help or or are just rude about giving advice. I thought forums were supposed to be a community of people that are here to help each other, not belittle them.
I understand that some questions are obvious and sometimes people don't do enough research before asking questions. But here is my opinion: if you don't want to give an answer other than the typical "do you know what Google is?" Or the ever present rude comments then keep it to yourself.
The whole idea of how a person can be rude on the internet without any sort of consequence because they are sitting behind a computer or a phone or what have you is disgusting to say the least.
The concept of being kind to each other is nearly gone in this world...
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using Tapatalk 2
im not one the many cause i agree with you on that..
Sent from my SHV-E160L using xda app-developers app
It has a lot to do with placing a tremendous amount of value in something that really doesn't mean anything all, one's ego. If some people got over themselves and spent the same amount of energy to help as they did to be snotty and cocky, this would be a much better community to learn together. Instead some would rather hold on to their knowledge as they think it elevates them. Get over yourself and contribute. This is a community, not a place of worship.
Thank you for taking the time to create this thread.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using Tapatalk 2
Also these ppl fail to realize is that even tho the question has already been answer it makes easier for noobies to find the answer without sifting through 500 pages.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using xda app-developers app
This doesn't belong here.
This section is for General topics concerning the device itself, there is an actual xda General section to post general topics concerning all of xda.
this is a development site first and foremost, not a help desk, you're perfectly ok to post your questions in the q&a section, and most roms should have an accompanying q&a thread so as not to have the same questions come up making reading the thread to see what DEVELOPMENTS have occurred get buried in a mess. If that were adhered to more it would go smoother.
Furthermore there has been a depressing shift in the user attitude as of late that is kinda burning us old timers out.
Instead of working with devs and getting a nice feedback, a vast majority is demanding and entitled.
Like the post a couple above me
...You know the answer just answer me, otherwise shut up...
Whereas it should be
"You've worked hard let me put forth a bit of effort so you can have some spare time"
TL;DR
you say they are rude for telling you to search.
Whereas you're being rude by not searching.
studacris said:
This doesn't belong here.
This section is for General topics concerning the device itself, there is an actual xda General section to post general topics concerning all of xda.
this is a development site first and foremost, not a help desk, you're perfectly ok to post your questions in the q&a section, and most roms should have an accompanying q&a thread so as not to have the same questions come up making reading the thread to see what DEVELOPMENTS have occurred get buried in a mess. If that were adhered to more it would go smoother.
Furthermore there has been a depressing shift in the user attitude as of late that is kinda burning us old timers out.
Instead of working with devs and getting a nice feedback, a vast majority is demanding and entitled.
Like the post above me
"You know the answer just answer me, otherwise shut up"
Whereas it should be
"You've worked hard let me put forth a bit of effort so you can have some spare time"
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Your point is understood and that is a side i did forget and my statement was more geared toward the one that actually need the help verse the pertinacious fellows that are out here being lazy i ment no offense with my statement
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using xda app-developers app
Ah, the old prickly problem of internet ego. I can say anything that I want because I sit behind this keyboard and am not face-to-face with the actual person. I love you!!, I hate you!! You are a genius. So stupid, smh. So easy to type these things. Very few have the cojones to say these things to someone's face. Hence the dawn of the e-peen.
Sorry to say that it is here to stay. I believe it first showed its head shortly after Al Gore invented the internet. In fact I think that his e-peen was the one that first broke through because, well he invented it.
When I first came to XDA, I knew very little about Android. I knew what Root was and that was about it. So I read and read a bit more. The phone I had was released and abandoned on Éclair (no app2sd), a locked bootloader (wtf was a bootloader) and only had 256 RAM and 512 ROM. Not a lot of space. So we had to repartition our extSD card to create a partition to where the apps could install. That meant learning how to partition/format an SD card, learning the scripts to run it and then the actual install with terminal. It took time. Fortunately there was a few people in that forum that helped as much as they could. No one was spoonfeeding but rather spurring a possible future dev. Plus they we just being nice.
Fast forward 2+years. Android has gone from a niche market (Donut/Éclair) to a superpower in the market (GB/ICS/JB). Everyone knows someone who has an Android. Before this boom, it was all about Nokia, HTC and Blackberry, none of which used Android as a platform.
With fame come the masses. Like I said above, everyone knows someone with an Android device. Teenagers, business people, grandparents,...heck I've taught my two young sons how to root their Nook Colors and they are in K & 1st grade. Guess what site is almost alwasy at the top of any Android Google search? ---> XDA-Developers.
The best thing that I can tell you is that if you can help, then please do in one of two short posts. Anything beyond that, then they need to do more research and reading. It doesn't cost anything to answer, but if someone responds with a snarky remark and then it escalates, well that could cost you your privileges of being able to post here via infractions and bans for flaming. No one wants that. Steer the questions to the Q&A section and out of the Dev section(s). The Q&A sections is a "dumping ground" so to say. It was created to relieve the non-development posts in dev threads. It works, if use correctly.
Searching is Rule #1 but there is also Rule #2 about being Courteous and Flaming. Just because they are #2 doesn't make them any less important.
tl;dr Answer if you can in 1 or 2 posts. If not, then direct to Q&A. No flames but try to be nice about how you respond.
Didn't mean for this to be so long but I see this thread at least 10 times a week.
Thread Closed
Oooh wait, I forgot something. One way that you can help people that are actually using the Search function is to put thread tags at the bottom of the threads. That way when someone searches, maybe that thread or issue will pop up. I just checked the Dev section (not OrgDev) and in the top 10 threads in there, not a single one has any Tags in it. Could be useful to put some in there, don't you think? Fixed a problem with GPS, then put a tag in there like "GPS fix on pg 152". BT now works, put a tag in there that "BT is working on this ROM".
Al Gore didn't invented the internet? And Woody Sir...I love You!:silly::silly:
I remember a time when people were helpful on XDA. They would share knowledge, help others who know less. Unfortunately, those days are long gone.
I have referred many friends and acquaintances to XDA Developers, telling them there are many very experienced guys - and girls - who are happy to help you... It gives many of them the experience they need.
But a number of these people would tell me that the people on XDA are, basically, jerks! Rather than complain along with others, I hope to get through to at least one of you.
XDA began as a site where anyone with a specific handheld device could ask any question in order to get help...with any problem they would encounter. It grew and added other devices. Now XDA has become the most reputable go-to site for help with any kind of phone. If anyone knows anything about phones they know XDA Developers.
Guys, this should not be a place to show-off, or to be rude or intimidating. Often, there are people with questions, or need help, advice...and they don't know anything. These are the people who need help the most. Your help. Please treat people the way YOU would want to be treated when YOU did not know anything at all. That is all I ask.
Thank you.
If you ask nicely, in the right place, you'll get an answer.
The problem is when people come demanding this or that, being rude and asking questions in the wrong places.
Sent from my LG-D802 using Tapatalk
my expirience is i been in 2 phone sections the skyrocket galaxy s2 and the lg g2.
in the s2 there were very helpful but when i came here i notice the same thing rather then getting help you get unnecessary post or answers.. or making fun of you or beign smartasses.. ive had a few arguments with some guys in here so they know who they are
the way i think is teach someone that someone will teach another, we are all different some will get it, and to some will be more difficult. instead ofa bogus post why not share link or type a helpful post.. then if you aint helping why post at all just ignore and go on with life..
CiscoKydd said:
I remember a time when people were helpful on XDA. They would share knowledge, help others who know less. Unfortunately, those days are long gone.
I have referred many friends and acquaintances to XDA Developers, telling them there are many very experienced guys - and girls - who are happy to help you... It gives many of them the experience they need.
But a number of these people would tell me that the people on XDA are, basically, jerks! Rather than complain along with others, I hope to get through to at least one of you.
XDA began as a site where anyone with a specific handheld device could ask any question in order to get help...with any problem they would encounter. It grew and added other devices. Now XDA has become the most reputable go-to site for help with any kind of phone. If anyone knows anything about phones they know XDA Developers.
Guys, this should not be a place to show-off, or to be rude or intimidating. Often, there are people with questions, or need help, advice...and they don't know anything. These are the people who need help the most. Your help. Please treat people the way YOU would want to be treated when YOU did not know anything at all. That is all I ask.
Thank you.
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As a moderator and very active member of this community I see a lot. There are threads that I participate in as a member and those are the most friendly, helpful threads. I am actually shocked at the helpfulness and politeness in spite of the fact that people asking the questions failed to read as close as 2 posts above which had their answer. More and more members have joined this community and do not want to read even the basic requirement of the OP of the thread before they attempt to modify their $600 device. Too many members want an answer NAO without having to go to the trouble of reading or searching a little. The very first rule asks all members who join to search first. When I joined in 2010, I read for a month before making my first post. XDA was not a help desk then. It was a place to share knowledge. This is two very different things. People who genuinely want help, how to theme, how to change something, how to know how to adjust a kernel and figure out the best setting for themselves...those people usually get the help they need. But people that refuse to read, expecting the members of the thread to do it for them...then ask a question in a development thread like "Do I need root for this?" Then proceed to ask to be spoon fed how to do it? This probably will annoy some members that have done a little reading. So yes, the site has changed...you can expect that with going from a million members in 2010 to 7 million now. And on the other hand we do have rules regarding member conduct as well, and members should respect the new members and guide them..make this the site they want it to be and once was. I understand what you are saying but I also see many sides of this. I see new members being rude, demanding answers, expecting someone to answer within an hour of their question, as well as the other side of someone rudely stating "Search!". So it is not just one sided. Unfortunately I see this as a sign of what society in general is becoming as we overpopulate this poor ball of dirt hurtling through space.
Thank you, KennyG123. I cannot disagree with anything you stated. In fact, it reminds me that I forgot to mention to new members that they be polite, also. I cannot help but to agree with you 100%. We all need a little reminder sometimes. So I hope that someone...anyone reads this and think about how they treat others. I need it, too!
Again, Thank you, KennyG123.
This thread should be a sticky
Enjoyed this thoroughly.
Been on since my little Frodo Sony Xperia mini x10i (what a name) and right here are the two sides of coin.
When I came on I knew nothing - and asked some dumb questions, and did the searches etc.
Many of those searches came back with stuff I could not understand. And some of the people reproducing this info were jerks - concerned only with obfuscation and an invitation to pm.
However, people were not rude, so eventually you find someone same level or a little higher and you're off.
Then suddenly the nicest thing happens - someone asks for help...and you CAN help. You recognise yourself and step in and it's good - EVEN IF just to remind them that the answer is on the page before, and sometimes searching first will help. And this without the eye-rolling condescension...you all know what I mean.
I too have referred people here, impressed with my 'knowledge', and I'm like, no, look, it's this great community of people......and then have them come back all discouraged and they may as well just stick to whatever the corporations foist on them.
Then on the other hand, a couple of years ago I noticed a proliferating of the other kind of jerk - you know them also.
Badgering the creator of a post for eta's with funny emoticons, I just cant wait, are we there yet, huh, are we there yet, and by the way do you think we'll be getting Smartie for our phones, and over on the 'other' device, they've got the code to overlay on Marshmallow to port to Smartie, their phones are so much better, and more whining, and maybe YOU can do the port, and are we there yet, I'll check back in an hour, and oh ya, how do I root yadiyada - there's a stickie, first post by the way.
That also is plain rude. There's a community, find out a little about it first, or read the phone manual at least.
For both instances I find one thing; real XDAers do not snap at people, don't jeez I wish you'd read something first, aren't put off by being referred to search either, won't make anyone feel like they're time here has been wasted, nor that anyone else is dumb, they've all been there.
These are the fakers, and posers, and always, ALWAYS, at the centre of some flame war.
Of course sometimes you want to voice your opinion on something and read others too so over-moderation kills the fun. There can be discretion, and it is clear when a discussion has gone from heated to just plain chest thumping - step away.
So, you know, use common sense.
Finally, just one more thing, I learnt good moderators are actually very helpful...For anything.
Pm something. They'll point you somewhere, guaranteed. Let them know if you feel like you're being bullied WITH A LINK to where this is happening and they'll show up and clean up the thread and keep safe. Though look, if YOU are the one stirring stuff up and then reporting, that too will be seen, and in my experience, that's looked at as a worse offence than just not searching first, so be sure.
Something HAS happened to the entire world of social internet that I find reprehensible. People have become rude simply because it makes them feel better to put someone else down in style.
I don't know when it happened exactly - and it's everywhere, Reddit, Facebook, wherever.
At XDA we can at least keep reminding people to just have a good time and don't be rude. Do whatever you like; research and grow or ask stupid questions, just don't be rude. We care about everyone on here.
We actually do.
Sent from my HUAWEI P7-L10 using XDA Premium HD app
CiscoKydd your thoughts are echoed by many on XDA. Heck we mods have the same thoughts from time to time.
This
CiscoKydd said:
XDA began as a site where anyone with a specific handheld device could ask any question in order to get help...with any problem they would encounter.
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actually wasn't the guise under which XDA was created. It was a site by developers for developers. There were many times when a Dev would tell people to F off but by in large (as it is today) many were willing to share their knowledge.
CiscoKydd said:
Guys, this should not be a place to show-off, or to be rude or intimidating.
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We simply call this group the entitled.. Ask them, they will tell you it is so:silly:
A big change implemented a few years ago on XDA, came about with this small group in mind. We call it the report system (explained here):good:
While we like to see this behemoth (XDA) run like a well oiled machine, there will always be a wrench thrown into the cog. We (moderators/admin of XDA) ask that you NOT let yourselves get dragged into the battle of wills. A simple report with a simple explanation (in said report) usually lets us deal with a situation with little, to no drama left behind in its wake.
CiscoKydd said:
Please treat people the way YOU would want to be treated when YOU did not know anything at all. That is all I ask.
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Cheers to that mate:good:
As membership continues to grow we can only hope that the few that read this remember why we are all here, to share and help others with what you know.
I have been "crying" to XDA for a number of years for help. I always got the help I needed. Most important, I got an education. There is more knowledge here on XDA than I could ever absorb! The hardest part was learning to search. But once I got over that hump I felt... Powerful!!
And I need to remind myself to be understanding, patient, respectful. You guys are right. It ain't easy sometimes. But XDA is a learning experience.
You guys are a good and knowledgeable bunch. Thanks. For everything.
I honestly feel this dependence on the question. I usually just look at topics rather then post in them, and I can see some people ask a certian question that other people regret as nubish, so suddenly they have "Nub mode" on. I just want them to remember that they, once upon a time were these so called noobs too.
Obviously this is not true about the majority of the people, just some.
Move this thread to "android general" or something, its useless to have it here
A short and good note mate ! but why here ?
Thanks for bringing this up.
Eminemiero said:
Move this thread to "android general" or something, its useless to have it here
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rajkatiyar07 said:
A short and good note mate ! but why here ?
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I assume the OP has a G2 and felt he would like to post his opinion on the subject in his general section.
This is fine:good:
TonyStark said:
Thanks for bringing this up.
I assume the OP has a G2 and felt he would like to post his opinion on the subject in his general section.
This is fine:good:
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No problem Mr. Stark !
Regards :- Jarvis
I don't know why but I really miss 2010 to 2012 gingerbread days
OP is right. I think this situation becomes because of release xda themes after 2010 version. I'am using 2010 theme and I think after 2010 themes are very compilcated and makes users nerveous and this is the reason why anyone not want to be help each other.
George Jetson said:
I don't know why but I really miss 2010 to 2012 gingerbread days
OP is right. I think this situation becomes because of release xda themes after 2010 version. I'am using 2010 theme and I think after 2010 themes are very compilcated and makes users nerveous and this is the reason why anyone not want to be help each other.
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Thats funny, I came here in 2013 and I think that theme's the best and everything else is complicated. I miss the kitkat days.
Alradaev said:
I honestly feel this dependence on the question. I usually just look at topics rather then post in them, and I can see some people ask a certian question that other people regret as nubish, so suddenly they have "Nub mode" on. I just want them to remember that they, once upon a time were these so called noobs too.
Obviously this is not true about the majority of the people, just some.
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I can't remember ever being flamed for making a noob question. One of my first posts on this site was a silly question in a dev thread and the developer (LenAsh) just answered it respectfully. Maybe I'm one of the lucky ones but my noobishness was only ever met with kindness and help.
I don't think I've experienced any rudeness when I've (albeit rarely) asked any questions since I started my Android journey in early-mid 2014. Before that I was an iOS guy, before that a Final Fantasy XI guy (MMORPG, was a moderator for a while of one of the biggest FFXI websites created by my best friend), and so on and so on. All forums that are a bit on the nerdy/technical/gadgets side have a problem with rude people. Lest we not forget the adage that the delightful guys at Penny Arcade put into a perfect cartoon: regular person + anonymity (sometimes)= bag of douche.
Having been a moderator I understand the frustration occasionally felt by @KennyG123 and @TonyStark. Why are some people such freakin jerks, yet others will type the same thing 10,000 times just to feel like they've helped 10,000 people. Why do some people read and search and learn first for a while before asking anything, yet others will ask (and almost demand) to have their hand held at every. single. step.? Maybe it's human nature?
I'm all about helping and being nice. Online and off.
people tend to ask first read later or no read at all.
they just want to post the question then go and do their own thing, come back later to see the answer.
while the thread starter wasted their own time to type the multiple posts of information/FAQ.
and last, this post should not be in this section as this is not even android related.
you post the wrong question in the wrong section and you still hope to get an answer?
I've been on the HTC wildfire, Nexus 5, Nexus 7 2013, Nexus 9 and LG G2 threads and have always found the other XDA members to be most helpful, (even though I'm not a flashaholic.)
However, I do make sure to search before asking questions and can therefore understand the frustration of answering questions that have been asked many times before. :angel:
So true but it seems out side of the G2 forums, there are still good people.
I had a good experience in the nexus 6 forums, never once got asked to "search before asking" best part of it is that I don't even have a N6 and the question I asked was actually illegal/criminal, I didn't know that at the time and those members explained in detail why it was illegal without bring disrespectful to me.
I honestly blame mods for not being strict enough.
I brought up a few specific xda members that were out right harassing people and I presented my case with evidence of repeated harassment.
The mod told me that I was over reacting. I said that by not doing anything about it they were condoning the action.
I wanted to strangle that mod, completely worthless. Police that don't enforce.
If the mods would start banning the few that are bringing xda down, then the problem would be solved.
But they won't do anything!
Mods have their work cut out for them here and I know they are doing the best they can, but it's not focused correctly to rectify the problem.
Sent from my Android using Tapatalk.