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Well it appears this is a design flaw!
When they where designing it they should have used some plastic! Using all metal backing makes the signal weak as hell!
Even if they can fix this problem idk! It would still be really weak!
For an example if you look at the ipad there is plastic for the Apple logo behind this is the wifi anttena!
Hopefully the back really is plastic and they did not overlook that problem! And it's just imperfections in the antenna!
Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk
I am pretty sure the Asus tech guys aren't totally dumb. I think they know about problems with WiFi and metal...
I guess the antenna is somewhere in the bezel. Anandtech (i think they were the ones) said that with their new unit wifi was okay, but it depends on the holding angle of the prime.
So it seems we DO have to take some comprises for having a full metal back. But I think I can life with that
Diamondback2010 said:
I am pretty sure the Asus tech guys aren't totally dumb. I think they know about problems with WiFi and metal...
I guess the antenna is somewhere in the bezel. Anandtech (i think they were the ones) said that with their new unit wifi was okay, but it depends on the holding angle of the prime.
So it seems we DO have to take some comprises for having a full metal back. But I think I can life with that
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah but even still It's not a tablet unless you get great Internet signal!
Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk
Diamondback2010 said:
I am pretty sure the Asus tech guys aren't totally dumb. I think they know about problems with WiFi and metal...
I guess the antenna is somewhere in the bezel. Anandtech (i think they were the ones) said that with their new unit wifi was okay, but it depends on the holding angle of the prime.
So it seems we DO have to take some comprises for having a full metal back. But I think I can life with that
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Anandtech said the new unit was better, but not as good as the original Transformer in terms of WIFI.
Don't assume that ASUS is not capable of making such a stupid mistake. There have been lots of cases of top tier companies shipping out products with such design flaws, and I don't think ASUS is in the category of top tier company. I work in a fortune 500 company, and we get the first batch of a lot of laptops, and we test them before the workers get them. Sometimes I'm amazed at the lack of basic quality control when these devices first come out. It's like they ship out beta hardware.
Ectoplasmic said:
Anandtech said the new unit was better, but not as good as the original Transformer in terms of WIFI.
Don't assume that ASUS is not capable of making such a stupid mistake. There have been lots of cases of top tier companies shipping out products with such design flaws, and I don't think ASUS is in the category of top tier company. I work in a fortune 500 company, and we get the first batch of a lot of laptops, and we test them before the workers get them. Sometimes I'm amazed at the lack of basic quality control when these devices first come out. It's like they ship out beta hardware.
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Click to collapse
There is not one doubt in my mind Asus wasn't aware that the WiFi was wearker than the TF101. However you have to realize unless the performance literally was unacceptable by whatever QC standards they have, they are able to pass the design, build the product, and ship it. Fact is only because a couple top tier reviewers recieved units that weren't up to the standards of the rest, they decided to handle the situation the way they did. In fact if they weren't aware of it, they probably would've let the stock stay as is, launch as normal, and say that "there are a small number of reported cases" as companies usually do.
Ectoplasmic said:
Anandtech said the new unit was better, but not as good as the original Transformer in terms of WIFI.
Don't assume that ASUS is not capable of making such a stupid mistake. There have been lots of cases of top tier companies shipping out products with such design flaws, and I don't think ASUS is in the category of top tier company. I work in a fortune 500 company, and we get the first batch of a lot of laptops, and we test them before the workers get them. Sometimes I'm amazed at the lack of basic quality control when these devices first come out. It's like they ship out beta hardware.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This happened with Apple and the Iphone 4. The antenna was located in the bottom
right of the phone and signal was lost when you had your hand over it.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/5178/an-update-on-transformer-prime-battery-life-wifi-issues
"Using Ookla's Speedtest.net web app I get a consistent 34 - 37Mbps on the original Eee Pad Transformer (our actual WiFi performance tests involve downloading a file from a local server, but Speedtest was a quick and easy way to verify the problem). My original Prime review sample averaged around 0.5Mbps, while the replacement Prime got around 10Mbps - all in the same test location. Fiddling around with location I could get the replacement Prime up to 16Mbps. My test area is riddled with challenging interference so I setup a separate test area in another room. Even after buying the same Netgear WNDR4500 wireless AP that ASUS verified 31Mbps+ operation on, I wasn't able to break 16Mbps.
I have four other APs covering my house, I turned all of the radios off as a last ditch effort. Boom - 36Mbps on the Prime.
The culprit appeared to be either my 3rd gen Time Capsule or 5th gen Airport Extreme, with those radios off and using the WNDR4500 I was able to get performance competitive to the original Transformer. Here's where things get interesting. The original Transformer was made out of plastic, through which RF travels quite nicely. The Prime's metal construction makes things a bit more finicky. Indeed this is exactly what I saw, where depending on tablet and AP orientation I'd see anywhere between 10Mbps and 36Mbps downstream (average speed tended to be in the 15 - 20Mbps range). "
I also think it's a mistake to assume that other reviewers would necessarily notice this problem. Other reviewers might not have tested WIFI performance at all.
Ectoplasmic said:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/5178/an-update-on-transformer-prime-battery-life-wifi-issues
"Using Ookla's Speedtest.net web app I get a consistent 34 - 37Mbps on the original Eee Pad Transformer (our actual WiFi performance tests involve downloading a file from a local server, but Speedtest was a quick and easy way to verify the problem). My original Prime review sample averaged around 0.5Mbps, while the replacement Prime got around 10Mbps - all in the same test location. Fiddling around with location I could get the replacement Prime up to 16Mbps."
I also think it's a mistake to assume that other reviewers would necessarily notice this problem. Other reviewers might not have tested WIFI performance at all.
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Click to collapse
No one is doubting the performance isn't up to par with the TF101. It's obvious it's not. Again Asus was well aware and thought it would slip by well because of something called everyday use. If it wasn't noticed by other reviewers it's for a reason, they tested it under normal use circumstances and found it to be quite acceptible. I am in no way making excuses for Asus or the design but it is what it is. Anandtech however doesn't test like that and which is why they were able to find such a flaw. It's all about a matter of usage.
I'm about to dump my pre-order. This whole release date debacle pissed me off, and now if there is possible WIFI issues...it might be a bad investment. I've been asking myself if I really need a tablet anyhow, and the answer is probably not.
please dump it.. saves it for the people who want it.
adampdx said:
I'm about to dump my pre-order. This whole release date debacle pissed me off, and now if there is possible WIFI issues...it might be a bad investment. I've been asking myself if I really need a tablet anyhow, and the answer is probably not.
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Click to collapse
I'm glad I didn't do the pre-order thing. I don't want to be first in line for this. I'll wait until it is generally available, and there has been time for reviews of retail units. Let other people be on the bleeding edge
I have not been close to cancelling my preorder up to this point but if this wifi issue is confirmed I may be tempted to buy the original TF. Especially considering they keep showing OOS open-box Transformers for $185 on a particular website we all know and love. If I see one in stock I think I will go that route until this issue is worked out.
I wish some more reviewers would do in-depth testing on this issue.
I hope they don't make it thicker with a redesign! It seems line it already was redesigned once aka the one poorly placed speaker...
Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk
Wordlywisewiz said:
I hope they don't make it thicker with a redesign! It seems line it already was redesigned once aka the one poorly placed speaker...
Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Haven't you ever seen a proper Wifi antenna? They at least as thick as your finger.
So they NEED to make it a lot thicker.
Otherwise we'll never get a proper Wifi signal.
You may better get a different device.
I am really not sure if you are trolling... But be assured, I AM.
Diamondback2010 said:
Haven't you ever seen a proper Wifi antenna? They at least as thick as your finger.
So they NEED to make it a lot thicker.
Otherwise we'll never get a proper Wifi signal.
You may better get a different device.
I am really not sure if you are trolling... But be assured, I AM.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well I'm just saying maybe they should have put a real wifi antenna in the dock also...
Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk
Diamondback2010 said:
I am pretty sure the Asus tech guys aren't totally dumb. I think they know about problems with WiFi and metal...
I guess the antenna is somewhere in the bezel. Anandtech (i think they were the ones) said that with their new unit wifi was okay, but it depends on the holding angle of the prime.
So it seems we DO have to take some comprises for having a full metal back. But I think I can life with that
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They were dumb enough to test the Wifi after they've mass produced the thing instead of before. What makes you think otherwise?
Folks, let's tell the whole story here. What Anandtech also said:
I have four other APs covering my house, I turned all of the radios off as a last ditch effort. Boom - 36Mbps on the Prime.
The culprit appeared to be either my 3rd gen Time Capsule or 5th gen Airport Extreme, with those radios off and using the WNDR4500 I was able to get performance competitive to the original Transformer. Here's where things get interesting. The original Transformer was made out of plastic, through which RF travels quite nicely. The Prime's metal construction makes things a bit more finicky. Indeed this is exactly what I saw, where depending on tablet and AP orientation I'd see anywhere between 10Mbps and 36Mbps downstream (average speed tended to be in the 15 - 20Mbps range). Apple gets around this issue in the iPad by putting the WiFi antenna behind the plastic Apple logo, however it's not entirely clear to me where the WiFi antenna is on the Prime (I have this policy about not taking things apart until I'm done testing them).
As to why performance was lower with the Apple APs active, I'm not entirely sure. Chasing down RF interference issues can be a severe undertaking. One thing is for sure, the Prime is going to be far more finicky than its predecessor when it comes to reaching peak speeds over WiFi.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know that the folks at Anandtech are smart people, but it seems like the reviewer conflated some things here. I don't know how much testing he did AFTER turning off the Apple AP's, but it sure seems to me like the fluctuating results he's talking about were from before he did so. Perhaps the Prime is fine in general but just had an interference issue with the Apple APs that actually resolved itself just fine once they were turned off.
Why would there be this kind of interference with the Apple APs? I have no idea, except that it would point to something in software and not hardware. But until we have someone who does a really good job of detailing precisely where a non-defective Prime has wifi issues, I'm personally writing this off to something being broken in his first unit.
True, he did say he could get it to 36Mbps "depending on tablet and AP orientation I'd see anywhere between 10Mbps and 36Mbps downstream (average speed tended to be in the 15 - 20Mbps range)"
This, along with:
ASUS feels the WiFi range does not currently meet their standards and has delayed all shipments worldwide. At the moment there is no ETA and noinformation on available quantities on the first batch.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=20155626
As a comparison, AnandTech shows the Kindle Fire's WiFi maxes at 15.2, and I couldn't get close to that in my own tests.
i posted in multiple threads my concerns about the wifi issue when the anandtech and cnet reviews came out. i've canceled my preorder at jr but will keep my adorama and bestbuy preorders for now though. all hype i had for this thing is completely gone. now i'm like whatever.
If Anandtech was able to get full WIFI speed turning off other AP's than that points more to an interoperability issue that should be correctable through firmware/driver rather than antenna/hardware design.
Backstory: Staples initially had the TFP available online for a short period, but brought it down within a few days of making it available. I called asking why, and the rep didn't have any info, but told me they could special order me one so I could use my rewards that I have been accumulating (close to $300).
Ordered my TFP on 1/5/12 and was scheduled to get it about a week ago due to wholesaler backorder, but the shipping date got pushed to 1/25/12 due to unavailability. It was only another week, so I decided to wait. I called my rep yesterday around 5 since I hadn't received my package. He called around and eventually got to a specialist team that said that Staples is refusing to sell any more TFPs until all the bugs have been worked out and they can guarantee me a quality product that works as described, due to the abundance of returns and problems with the device in the past months.
Just thought it was interesting a retailer was taking a stand like this. At first I was upset because I know theres only about a 1/3 - 1/5 chance I'll get one with Wifi troubles, which is the only thing I fear. But knowing that I wont have to worry about setting up then returning and setting up again and returning that many people are having to put up with eases my mind, especially with my academics ramping up.
Just thought I'd share
Someone posted on another forum that for the same reason, Amazon currently isn't taking any new orders for the Prime.
Good I hope ASUS loses millions of dollers they deserve it.
It's hard to know what the overall return rate is because the general public usually isn't as anal as XDA'ers. But based on what's been shared here people have gone through four Prime's to get one they're satisfied with. 5% (1:100) is typical in electronics and it costs resellers 15-20% of their costs to process a return. If the Prime's running 1:4 alarms will go off in corporate offices that track return rates and failures. At $499 resellers are making less than $100 on the Prime's they sell. At some point, it becomes a tilt. Resellers will start asking for compensation or added margin to continue selling the Prime if Asus doesn't get their act together.
I'm either in the minority or I waited long enough for the problems to get mostly worked out. I received my Prime from Amazon last week and it's been flawless. Literally zero issues other than some minor light leaking, but I've not had a single device that wasn't guilty of that to some extent. Oh well, I hate to see Asus getting slammed like they are because I love their products, but maybe it's what they need to turn their quality control around.
I think its wise for retailers to refuse any release of a product that has a high return rate. Why? Because for every return, the retailer gets a bad stigma from consumers where they bought the product from. Yes, they dont make the product but they are responsible making decisions to stocking problematic products on their shelves. Then you have the an unnecessary que forming in in the line from the same product over and over again. I know my exchanges on bestbuy delayed them since their returns and sales where on the same line at the time when I arrived. Took my about 15 mins, they made no sales, and the line slowed down since I took up 1 of the 2 sales clerk. I returned it twice and my final was a refund of two tablets took 30 mins with 2 sales clerks. They had to open up another station while I was getting helped.
junrider said:
I think its wise for retailers to refuse any release of a product that has a high return rate. Why? Because for every return, the retailer gets a bad stigma from consumers where they bought the product from. Yes, they dont make the product but they are responsible making decisions to stocking problematic products on their shelves. Then you have the an unnecessary que forming in in the line from the same product over and over again. I know my exchanges on bestbuy delayed them since their returns and sales where on the same line at the time when I arrived. Took my about 15 mins, they made no sales, and the line slowed down since I took up 1 of the 2 sales clerk. I returned it twice and my final was a refund of two tablets took 30 mins with 2 sales clerks. They had to open up another station while I was getting helped.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And then... They have to return it to Asus either from an individual store or by shipping it back to their central warehouse. It needs to be run through accounting to have the amount they owe Asus debited for sending it back. It has to be logged in case it's lost or damaged in shipping. Asus may or may not pay the return shipping costs depending on the contract they have with the reseller. Typically large resellers have a clause in their contracts to deal with returns in excess of X% that either trigger a renegotiation or some type of penalty. None of this is good for Asus' profitability.
All I can say is Damn! Lol. ASUS really needs to get on the ball, like yesterday, and deal with these issues head one. Its a shame as this is a great device when it isn't crippled with issues some have been dealing with, like my Prime. I've used mines nonstop since I got it on 12/22 n had no problems with it, aside from obvious GPS issue. I really like it alot n still consider it the best tablet I've had. Even better than my Ipad. BUT ISSUES can't be downplayed or ignored anymore by Asus. If some retailers are refusing to sell the Prime, this could be detrimental to Asus sales. I just hope for the best that they will resolve all of this in a timely manner. Its still only been a month since release so its early enough to turn things around.
MY Prime works well but with all this chaos going on, I've accepted the fact that Overall, Asus really f#&!?!# up this launch of a great product. Everyone's device needs to work great. We know there will be errors but its all adding up too much now. Its too many out there. Doesn't matter anymore if its the minority. It seems like enough now to be a serious problem for Asus.
Let us pray for them..lmfao
just lou said:
Someone posted on another forum that for the same reason, Amazon currently isn't taking any new orders for the Prime.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's the way it should be, stop the shipment and resolve the problem first. When Asus admitted gps problems and modified the specs without lowering the price, there's definitely something amiss with the product. This is further aggravated by the various problems encountered with this "brand new" product which was rushed out the door during the holiday season.
No Amazon, no deal!
Kind of makes me nervous to buy one. I follow these forums to see if it is worth picking up or waiting a little longer.
Yeah I'm highly disappointed with the Prime, overall this device seems to have skipped the whole test stage of development. I owned an original TF (that i bought in Apr 2011) and was very happy with how it performed and the support out of Asus. I'm returning my Prime today (bought from bestbuy Jan13th), I've waited as long as possible for Asus to address the issues and I'm fearful that this unit (TF201) will simply have to be discontinued (or drastic price reductions) in order to gain widespread traction in the market place. I know that ASUS says the new TF700 is slated to be a Premium product in the lineup, I'm just doubtful that it can stay at $600+. Add in the speculation and possibility that Apple will release a new product/features and the pressure on ASUS and others in the Android camp will be to compete aggressively on price.
With close to 60% of the tablet market (and one that is shrinking rapidly due to devices like Kindle Fire etc), it's pretty clear i think that we're about to see some significant changes soon....
I wish the MeMo was available today grrrr....
There are people on these forums that are up to 5 primes and are still looking for the perfect Prime. IT will take time for them to find the perfect one as there is not. So the returns they bring are killing ASUS.
There are also people like me who got a BC prime from gamestop that didn't have any issues aside from GPS. After a quick press near the GPS connector area, I can now stay locked on, even though signal is still low. No WiFi issues, no light bleed, no crashing, dock works fine, battery life seems great, etc.
1SiK1500 said:
Kind of makes me nervous to buy one. I follow these forums to see if it is worth picking up or waiting a little longer.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well two major online retailers, Amazon and Staples, have already decided to stop selling the Prime and I suspect a high rate of return has got them nervous too. Walmart carries the 101 but not the 201, and now I'm really curious at to why. Did they know something we don't?
---------- Post added at 10:41 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:33 AM ----------
redpoint13 said:
There are also people like me who got a BC prime from gamestop that didn't have any issues aside from GPS. After a quick press near the GPS connector area, I can now stay locked on, even though signal is still low. No WiFi issues, no light bleed, no crashing, dock works fine, battery life seems great, etc.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The spring loaded pogo stick connector is pure lame design, Asus used all kinds of ribbon connectors on the Prime but dropped the ball where it was critically important. Anytime a mechanical connection is used, it becomes a point of resistance to the rf signal and when oxidation tarnishes the contacts the reception get even worse. So two issues related to the rf signals are metal shielding and poor electrical contact. Cold solder joints may also be a factor, a rush job will surely contribute to that.
redpoint13 said:
There are also people like me who got a BC prime from gamestop that didn't have any issues aside from GPS. After a quick press near the GPS connector area, I can now stay locked on, even though signal is still low. No WiFi issues, no light bleed, no crashing, dock works fine, battery life seems great, etc.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Theres obviously alot of primes out there that are perfectly fine. Like I said, most polls range from 20-30% of primes having wifi issues, clearly the largest problem among a list of 3-4 valid concerns. I just thought that it was interesting that retailers are actually stepping in to protect the consumer in such a dramatic way. I've never heard of anything like this, even with much bigger hardware failures (RROD anyone?).
Screwedupsmitty said:
Theres obviously alot of primes out there that are perfectly fine. Like I said, most polls range from 20-30% of primes having wifi issues, clearly the largest problem among a list of 3-4 valid concerns. I just thought that it was interesting that retailers are actually stepping in to protect the consumer in such a dramatic way. I've never heard of anything like this, even with much bigger hardware failures (RROD anyone?).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I doubt retailers are stepping in to protect the consumer. Its more likely that the returns are making the retailers lose money and they refuse to buy anymore from Asus until they solve the problems.
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using Tapatalk
No surprise there. I had 3 primes in my hands the last month.
2 in the US from Best Buy both with dead pixels
1 in the UK, tablet great except for a little light bleed but the dock was DOA. Couldn't get the dock to charge at all, like the battery is non-existant.
I am still trying for another one.. that's after John Lewis UK can't get any in stock and had to cancel.
Nervous getting it from Frys and Best Buy next week when I am in the US again. If I get it in the UK I can get 2 years warranty.
HiddenSanctum said:
I doubt retailers are stepping in to protect the consumer. Its more likely that the returns are making the retailers lose money and they refuse to buy anymore from Asus until they solve the problems.
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using Tapatalk
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Click to collapse
For sure an open box return item will no longer sell as brand new for the same price.
Mikers99 said:
There are people on these forums that are up to 5 primes and are still looking for the perfect Prime. IT will take time for them to find the perfect one as there is not. So the returns they bring are killing ASUS.
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*rolls eyes*
I've witnesses multiple smartphone and device launches, and I hear the same crap about foolish users returning 3-5 phones -- this is even for the HTC Evo and HTC Evo 3D which are regarded has being quite commercially successful.
There are some legitimate issues out there that warrant a return (serial number bug here comes to mind), but I'm willing to put money down that many of the returned units are fine, but were returned because of overzealous customers.
NeoteriX said:
*rolls eyes*
I've witnesses multiple smartphone and device launches, and I hear the same crap about foolish users returning 3-5 phones -- this is even for the HTC Evo and HTC Evo 3D which are regarded has being quite commercially successful.
There are some legitimate issues out there that warrant a return (serial number bug here comes to mind), but I'm willing to put money down that many of the returned units are fine, but were returned because of overzealous customers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
True...I had ran out of thankx
Sent back their TFP?
Considering sending back their TFP?
Happy/ unhappy with it?
Waiting for an official statement from Asus before you make up your mind?
Like my prime but feeling a little let down and unsure of where to go from here. Wondering what other UK TFP owners have done.
I don't plan on sending my prime back, though I did consider it when I found out the GPS was non functional. It still irks me a little bit even though I don't think I'd ever care to actually use it - it's not nice to think my device isn't up to par. However side from that I'm extremely pleased with it and overall I'm just too lazy to go through the hassle
An Honest Answer
I am likely going to either get an RMA or try to return under the statement of full refund from asus ( http://asus.co.uk/blog/news/eee-pad-transformer-prime-update/1057/) the problems i am getting are intermittent and starting to annoy me, just to name a few;
Dust under screen,
Light bleed,
Dead pixels,
DOA GPS,
Wobbly hinge on dock,
BT+WiFi = Unusable WiFi
I could go on...
unfortunately i purchased mine from Carphone warehouse in january and as such will find it more difficult getting a refund from them but i will try
Other than the above i was thoroughly enjoying my prime ... whilst wearing rose tinted glasses.
I may purchase the TF700T at a later date when it is released or just stay without a tablet forevermore it depends if asus tightens up their QUALITY CONTROL!!
Regards
Jack
Got this response back from Asus Support after mentioning my GPS doesn't work. Truly disappointed. Any advice on how to get them to look at it?
Regarding the GPS Asus has released an official statement.
"The ASUS Transformer Prime is made from a metallic unibody design, so the material may affect the performance of the GPS when receiving signals from satellites. Please note that this product is not a professional GPS device, and signal performance can be easily influenced by factors including, but not limited to: weather, buildings, and surrounding environments. Please understand there are limitations when using the GPS function. To avoid inconveniencing users who demand a powerful GPS device, we made the decision to remove it from our specification sheet and marketing communications. We apologize for any inconvenience this has caused.
Kind regards,
Asus UK Support Team"
conner said:
Sent back their TFP?
Considering sending back their TFP?
Happy/ unhappy with it?
Waiting for an official statement from Asus before you make up your mind?
Like my prime but feeling a little let down and unsure of where to go from here. Wondering what other UK TFP owners have done.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm keeping mine. It's great. If only Asus had never put a GPS sensor in it then everyone would be happy.
Hi,
this morning someone sent me a link from Tom's Hardware about this tablet. The articles mentions that some people have modded their case to improve GPS signals.
I wonder why Asus don't revise this product to address this issue.
Sent from my HTC Desire using xda premium
You DONT even have to do all that anymore. Asus is offering free GPS dongles to people who purchase a prime. Offer ends in July. Just take a look in my GPS dongle test thread. Then take a look at the link in my signature THST says positive transformer thread.
Prime is a great device. Get one asap
Well first of all, I find it hard to believe that the aluminum case is causing 100% of the problem. Because, if it were then like you said, why not just change the design of the backplate? My guess is that simply adding a plastic strip to the top of the backplate would not improve GPS performance that much. And personally I think the plastic strip look is ugly as hell. What they could have done is kept the all aluminum finish and just relocated the antenna to behind a speaker grill, which is similar to what other devices with metal casings have done. I am sure the GPS still wouldn't be 'professional grade' but it would at least be better than what we currently have.
Either way, the whole GPS problem was something that was obviously not 'caught' until really late in the production process. If it were caught earlier, I am sure something more pro-active would have been done about it. But by the time they found out, they were in too deep to make a hardware change as they were most likely already in mass production. The early regions of where the device was released they had already advertised the thing as having GPS, both on the box and on the official spec sheets. Then when it was released these people found out that GPS was virtually non-functional and ASUS had to quickly back track and pull GPS as a feature from the spec list. My guess is their lawyers told them they need to do something to avoid a class action law suit and any further bad press around this whole situation. So their options were:
1) Recall the device and then modify the hardware in some way to fix the GPS problem (whether that be done via a newly designed back pate or whatever). And then any new ones produced would obviously have this hardware change incorporated as well.
2) Offer a free addon that improves GPS performance.
As we now know, they went with option 2, which I am sure was also the cheaper route. Also, option 1 would imply an admission of guilt in that they messed up. The GPS dongle option allows them to say: "Although the TF201 is not a professional GPS device, as part of our unwavering commitment to our customers we are offering all customers who purchased a TF201 system a free external GPS extension kit, called a dongle, which may help improve signal reception and optimize the user experience".
Honestly I do not care about GPS in a tablet and I will probably only ever use my dongle a select few times in the entire span that I own and use the Prime. I do think it is good that ASUS is doing something about it though. Other companies may very well have just brushed this thing under the rug and moved on with life (which is what I assumed ASUS has been doing until we found out about the GPS dongle).
jordache16 said:
Well first of all, I find it hard to believe that the aluminum case is causing 100% of the problem. Because, if it were then like you said, why not just change the design of the backplate? My guess is that simply adding a plastic strip to the top of the backplate would not improve GPS performance that much. And personally I think the plastic strip look is ugly as hell. What they could have done is kept the all aluminum finish and just relocated the antenna to behind a speaker grill, which is similar to what other devices with metal casings have done. I am sure the GPS still wouldn't be 'professional grade' but it would at least be better than what we currently have.
Either way, the whole GPS problem was something that was obviously not 'caught' until really late in the production process. If it were caught earlier, I am sure something more pro-active would have been done about it. But by the time they found out, they were in too deep to make a hardware change as they were most likely already in mass production. The early regions of where the device was released they had already advertised the thing as having GPS, both on the box and on the official spec sheets. Then when it was released these people found out that GPS was virtually non-functional and ASUS had to quickly back track and pull GPS as a feature from the spec list. My guess is their lawyers told them they need to do something to avoid a class action law suit and any further bad press around this whole situation. So their options were:
1) Recall the device and then modify the hardware in some way to fix the GPS problem (whether that be done via a newly designed back pate or whatever). And then any new ones produced would obviously have this hardware change incorporated as well.
2) Offer a free addon that improves GPS performance.
As we now know, they went with option 2, which I am sure was also the cheaper route. Also, option 1 would imply an admission of guilt in that they messed up. The GPS dongle option allows them to say: "Although the TF201 is not a professional GPS device, as part of our unwavering commitment to our customers we are offering all customers who purchased a TF201 system a free external GPS extension kit, called a dongle, which may help improve signal reception and optimize the user experience".
Honestly I do not care about GPS in a tablet and I will probably only ever use my dongle a select few times in the entire span that I own and use the Prime. I do think it is good that ASUS is doing something about it though. Other companies may very well have just brushed this thing under the rug and moved on with life (which is what I assumed ASUS has been doing until we found out about the GPS dongle).
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+1...although the solution of a GPS dongle really kills the idea of a TRANSFORMER prime...cant use it with the keyboard dock, and its not as flush and they said it is..you wont be able to use majority of the leather cases and etc when you are using the dongle
I have owned the prime for months. My wifi strength is fine and I dont use GPS enough to justify the problem.
proxus01 said:
I have owned the prime for months. My wifi strength is fine and I dont use GPS enough to justify the problem.
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Same here.
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using Tapatalk 2
kwazytazz said:
+1...although the solution of a GPS dongle really kills the idea of a TRANSFORMER prime...
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Click to collapse
Not really - now it can TRANSFORM into a 'professional grade' GPS device! ;-)
Regards,
Dave
Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk 2
jordache16 said:
why not just change the design of the backplate?
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They are, for the 300 and 700 series, back to plastic where the radios are going. iPad tried behind the speaker grille and it still has issues. Its better than nothing but def not perfect.
Yes, the black strip doesnt always look as appealing, however you could cover it with a case or carbon fiber sticker or whatever, i'd much rather go for plastic strip over no radio reception.
And also yes, the interference can definately be 10000% caused by the metalic back plate. Both by blocking the signal and RF noise. Everything pretty much is grounded to the metal back and it, in turn, has a lot of RF noise associated with it. If i attach a lead to the gps or wifi contact inside the tablet and have the wire run outside the tab i get excellent reception. Once that wire goes within about an inch of the tablet the signal drops dramatically. Even if the access point is on the proper side of the tablet so its not blocking the signal.
Asus knows how to make killer electronics. they did an amazing job on the prime, however the demand caught them off guard. They tried to do something different with the metalic design and got caught with their pants down. They will get it right eventually and in the mean time we are at least getting SOMETHING (free dongle for gps, why not?)
The prime is a great tablet, awesome for watching movies, playing games, browsing the internet. ya, the wifi is not that great, i look forward to mods for using the dongle for wifi instead of GPS, but in the mean time this is the best we got, and its good enough. When the 700 comes out i may sell my prime for that but i got money in my pocket. if your on a budget, buy the TF101, its still better than any other tablet (aside from the 201 IMO), or wait for the 300 series which will still be a cost efficent tablet.
Asus is doing their best to remedy this situation. They are a big company and big machines move slow. Considering their track record i will still continue buying their products. I have been impressed overall by the prime, and the 101 before it, and look forward to the 700 when it comes out. Continue doing your research and determine what is going to be important for you (and if you do go Prime make damn sure to test it every way you can before accepting it).
proxus01 said:
I have owned the prime for months. My wifi strength is fine and I dont use GPS enough to justify the problem.
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Same for me.
proxus01 said:
I have owned the prime for months. My wifi strength is fine and I dont use GPS enough to justify the problem.
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Click to collapse
SoTacMatt said:
Same here.
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using Tapatalk 2
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texstar said:
Same for me.
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same here..lmao
my wifi been been performing great where ever i go. whether at home, traveling and tethering, or some where else and hooking up to another public or private network.
The worst problem with the prime is the constant freezes it has...
It`s frustrating.
Tried all the browsers people recommend and the problem persists.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using XDA
Pretty good review of the Asus TF300...I didn't expect Engadget to give it such praise.
http://www.engadget.com/2012/04/22/asus-transformer-pad-tf300-review/
I had no idea this was already a finished product
d1ez3 said:
I had no idea this was already a finished product
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Yea, releases today. It seems like everyone has only heard of the 700, but not this, so I posted it.
I'd love to sell my fiances Galaxy Tab to get her this,but she needs a 7". Can't wait to see the 7 incher from ASUS or ASUS/Google...
this was already posted in the 300 thread earlier today
A cheaper version of the Prime. The only difference really is not a sharp looking (cheaper materials) and no Super IPS+ display making it easy.
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using Tapatalk 2
Aside from the fact that the battery life isn't quite as epic as the Prime's, our most serious complaint has little to do with ASUS, and more with Android: even with a state-of-the-art chip running the latest version of the OS, the tablet occasionally hiccups when launching apps and resizing web pages.
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Love my prime for this
legendary1022 said:
A cheaper version of the Prime. The only difference really is not a sharp looking (cheaper materials) and no Super IPS+ display making it easy.
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using Tapatalk 2
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Click to collapse
It's also a bit thicker
Sent from my HTC Vision using xda premium
I was hoping they would be more comprehensive about the wi-fi. All they said was "we didn't encounter any problems." I'd really like some comparative analysis between the 300 and the Prime, particularly since the 300 has a plastic back plate.
jkvato said:
I was hoping they would be more comprehensive about the wi-fi. All they said was "we didn't encounter any problems." I'd really like some comparative analysis between the 300 and the Prime, particularly since the 300 has a plastic back plate.
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to be honest, I've seen breakdowns on wifi performance comparisons. the 300, according to those charts, does perform better on wifi across various distances from router. It can also be said alot of prime owners don't have an issue with their wifi. I think it may have been Anandtech review where i saw the comparison charts. I cant remember. Either them or Android Central. If i come across it again ill link you to it.
edit: i found it. it was Anandtech. he has a very thorough review of the 3oo. ill link you to the wifi comparison chart.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/5756/asus-transformer-pad-300-review/5
jaycustom said:
Pretty good review of the Asus TF300...I didn't expect Engadget to give it such praise.
http://www.engadget.com/2012/04/22/asus-transformer-pad-tf300-review/
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You call that praise? I was thinking engadget's just like NO ME GUSTA to this...
Probably sent through one of those little windows in AOKP cornerstone for my tf9001.
demandarin said:
to be honest, I've seen breakdowns on wifi performance comparisons. the 300, according to those charts, does perform better on wifi across various distances from router. It can also be said alot of prime owners don't have an issue with their wifi. I think it may have been Anandtech review where i saw the comparison charts. I cant remember. Either them or Android Central. If i come across it again ill link you to it.
edit: i found it. it was Anandtech. he has a very thorough review of the 3oo. ill link you to the wifi comparison chart.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/5756/asus-transformer-pad-300-review/5
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I'm confused... Are you saying that if our Prime performs similar to that chart then we don't have a problem?
Looking at that chart, I see that the Prime is obviously the worst performer and it seems to be a pretty big issue compared to the other tablets.
>http://www.anandtech.com/show/5756/asus-transformer-pad-300-review/5
I wouldn't draw any conclusion from this chart. It's not representative. The numbers are distorted, likely from variations from a single test.
Per the chart, the Prime would have better wifi at 50' + multiple obstructions than at 20' + single obstruction, which obviously is false. Ditto for TF300, which from this would have same wifi performance at 20' as at 80'.
When a single set of numbers is known to be wrong, then the whole work is suspect. I would look askance at the entire review. This is shoddy work. I expect better from Anandtech, especially when Anand dude himself put his own name on the article.
MK17 said:
I'm confused... Are you saying that if our Prime performs similar to that chart then we don't have a problem?
Looking at that chart, I see that the Prime is obviously the worst performer and it seems to be a pretty big issue compared to the other tablets.
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you confusing me..lmao did you see the post i quoted? the original question was asked how does the 300 wifi performance compare to the prime. i gave the Anandtech comparison he did in his in depth review. Anandtech did a prime wifi tests early when prime first came out. his tests didn't fare well with the prime. my prime gets results more similar to the other devices listed. not all primes have wifi that perform bad, especially newer units.
Either way i just linked the person asking the question to a comparison chart showing how well 300 wifi performs. this has nothing to do with the prime by itself. this is just a recorded proof of comparison. that's all really. Since no other tech site has done what the person asked about so far.
what e.mote said is true also.
e.mote said:
>http://www.anandtech.com/show/5756/asus-transformer-pad-300-review/5
I wouldn't draw any conclusion from this chart. It's not representative. The numbers are distorted, likely from variations from a single test.
Per the chart, the Prime would have better wifi at 50' + multiple obstructions than at 20' + single obstruction, which obviously is false. Ditto for TF300, which from this would have same wifi performance at 20' as at 80'.
When a single set of numbers is known to be wrong, then the whole work is suspect. I would look askance at the entire review. This is shoddy work. I expect better from Anandtech, especially when Anand dude himself put his own name on the article.
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That chart tracks with my experience and likely the experience of most other Prime owners. The TF300 has slight dropoff, but consistently strong reception out to a much farther distance. The Prime has significant dropoff quickly, and almost total dropoff at the longer distance.
Both Primes I have owned were exactly the same as the one tested. Within 20 feet of the router, some dropoff. Outside of 20 feet, at least half, and at 60+ feet almost total dropoff. Also, it's reasonable that the 50 foot test was a little stronger than the 20 foot test because of the randomness of the signal dropoff. Sitting 50 feet from my router, I could run the speed test five consecutive times and get five different numbers. That doesn't make the numbers suspect, it makes the Prime's reception suspect because you get such random results.
You can make excuses and call the numbers "suspect" all day long, but I think a lot of Prime owners find those numbers very believable based on actual experience. I just think it's tragic that Asus CONTINUES to pretend that WiFi isn't a real issue, and continues to sell the Prime as the premium product even though it suffers from such a tragic flaw that doesn't seem to plague the "lower" model with the plastic back. Shipping an external GPS antenna to the obvious GPS problem was a nice step, but they still haven't done anything to make WiFi better. IMHO, a new caseback was the only viable solution and they have steadfastly refused to do it.
Asus should offer a trade-in program and see how many people would trade them their current Prime straight-up for a new TF300. That'll be a good indication of which one people think is actually the better product.
>it's reasonable that the 50 foot test was a little stronger than the 20 foot test because of the randomness of the signal dropoff.
OK, removed the "extra-curricular" commentary. Here's the sanitized version:
There are only 4 wifi numbers given for the Prime, one of which (50') is clearly wrong. If you accept that the 50' number is wrong due to "randomness", then the rest of the numbers have no credibility, because they can also be affected by the same "randomness." Hence, the need to minimize testing variability and to publish your testing method.
Wifi tests are highly variable, and you would want to minimize variability by taking some steps, the first of which is to test multiple times, remove the outliers, then normalize the result. The second of which is to publish your methodology so the test can be replicated. The Anandtech piece did neither.
dcAndroidFan said:
That chart tracks with my experience and likely the experience of most other Prime owners. The TF300 has slight dropoff, but consistently strong reception out to a much farther distance. The Prime has significant dropoff quickly, and almost total dropoff at the longer distance.
Both Primes I have owned were exactly the same as the one tested. Within 20 feet of the router, some dropoff. Outside of 20 feet, at least half, and at 60+ feet almost total dropoff. Also, it's reasonable that the 50 foot test was a little stronger than the 20 foot test because of the randomness of the signal dropoff. Sitting 50 feet from my router, I could run the speed test five consecutive times and get five different numbers. That doesn't make the numbers suspect, it makes the Prime's reception suspect because you get such random results.
You can make excuses and call the numbers "suspect" all day long, but I think a lot of Prime owners find those numbers very believable based on actual experience. I just think it's tragic that Asus CONTINUES to pretend that WiFi isn't a real issue, and continues to sell the Prime as the premium product even though it suffers from such a tragic flaw that doesn't seem to plague the "lower" model with the plastic back. Shipping an external GPS antenna to the obvious GPS problem was a nice step, but they still haven't done anything to make WiFi better. IMHO, a new caseback was the only viable solution and they have steadfastly refused to do it.
Asus should offer a trade-in program and see how many people would trade them their current Prime straight-up for a new TF300. That'll be a good indication of which one people think is actually the better product.
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Totally agree with you.
Does anyone know the reason why Asus decided not to change the back cover of his Prime?
Because if it's just only for aesthetics, it would be stupidiest reason ever held.
I would like to buy a Prime right now, the best of all Android devices, even with another backcover not-so-cool.
But seeing that problems I prefer buying the TF300 or go to another brand.
What a pity!
daioros said:
Totally agree with you.
Does anyone know the reason why Asus decided not to change the back cover of his Prime?
Because if it's just only for aesthetics, it would be stupidiest reason ever held.
I would like to buy a Prime right now, the best of all Android devices, even with another backcover not-so-cool.
But seeing that problems I prefer buying the TF300 or go to another brand.
What a pity!
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Click to collapse
If I had to guess, I'd say it's the obvious answer -- money. If they replace the back cover, then they have to do it to every unit, at a support center, by trained technicians. They're already struggling to keep up with basic repair and support -- a total retrofit would be an insurmountable task for their current infrastructure.
If they ignore the WiFi problem completely and just "fix" the GPS, then they can manufacture an external part, mass-produce and package it, and mail it out to some percentage of their registered owners with no other cost to them.
daioros said:
Totally agree with you.
Does anyone know the reason why Asus decided not to change the back cover of his Prime?
Because if it's just only for aesthetics, it would be stupidiest reason ever held.
I would like to buy a Prime right now, the best of all Android devices, even with another backcover not-so-cool.
But seeing that problems I prefer buying the TF300 or go to another brand.
What a pity!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I continue to find these posts humoring. Have you looked at a dissected Prime, either here on XDA or at Anandtech? Everything but the glass and LCD is attached to the backplate. That means either several hours labor swapping all the parts from one back to another or just trashing the entire back assembly and replacing all internal components.
So, in short and as mentioned, money. Either of those circumstances is no bueno for ASUS's bottom line, and therefore neither one is happening.
buxtahuda said:
I continue to find these posts humoring. Have you looked at a dissected Prime, either here on XDA or at Anandtech? Everything but the glass and LCD is attached to the backplate. That means either several hours labor swapping all the parts from one back to another or just trashing the entire back assembly and replacing all internal components.
So, in short and as mentioned, money. Either of those circumstances is no bueno for ASUS's bottom line, and therefore neither one is happening.
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Click to collapse
Which also explains why not much availability. The 300 will be their mass production device.
This is SPARTA!!
e.mote said:
>it's reasonable that the 50 foot test was a little stronger than the 20 foot test because of the randomness of the signal dropoff.
OK, removed the "extra-curricular" commentary. Here's the sanitized version:
There are only 4 wifi numbers given for the Prime, one of which (50') is clearly wrong. If you accept that the 50' number is wrong due to "randomness", then the rest of the numbers have no credibility, because they can also be affected by the same "randomness." Hence, the need to minimize testing variability and to publish your testing method.
Wifi tests are highly variable, and you would want to minimize variability by taking some steps, the first of which is to test multiple times, remove the outliers, then normalize the result. The second of which is to publish your methodology so the test can be replicated. The Anandtech piece did neither.
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Click to collapse
Practical tests are best. Take two devices and compare when each becomes unstable and then stops working with wifi. For me, the Prime was about half as functional for signal compared to the Thrive, View and iPad.
Though good enough for some, not for others. Seems logical to fix the back panel on new production runs and maybe they would have, if the 300 and 700 were not releasing now/soon.