I hope I'm wrong, and early in my dismay. And there may well be an announcement in the next few days that we will be getting a major update, but I'm feeling a little shafted by HTC.
<Edit: Fine, I didn't watch specs close at all, the S isn't the Rezound, and the X has some shortfalls as well. The argument still stands, poor marketing lead to poor adoption, and the end result *may* mean we have another few months with our not-quite-perfected Sense 3.6 leak.>
The ineptitude of the marketing campaign for the Rezound was epic, we can all agree I'm sure. But as a result, I feel like we are looking at a fall release for an official Sense 4/ ICS build. It probably makes little difference since we have a team working here that will bring the One S software over for us (assuming my assumptions on hardware are correct), but damn, it still irks me given the promises from HTC over the holidays that the Rezound would be getting the updates "early 2012."
I'm a 2 phone household with 2 HTCs. I'll get flamed for this, but if I watch them release these next two phones and then a couple more before they get to us, then I'm probably done with them. I appreciated them admitting that their late 2011 lineup kinda sucked (I love the Rezound, but we all have an issue or two, I know), and I appreciate that they need to fix it. But breaking one off in their most recent customers who bought into the next major release 120-ish days after the release, really?
I'll be happy to eat crow if they hook us up this week, but I got a bad feeling about this!!
I hate to rant, but this is pretty much the only group of people who could possibly understand.
a-jive said:
I hope I'm wrong, and early in my dismay. And there may well be an announcement in the next few days that we will be getting a major update, but I'm feeling a little shafted by HTC.
The One S, at least from the specs I've seen, looks A LOT like the Rezound. I didn't compare specs super closely, but I have a hunch they have the same processor and screen; meaning there is ultimately nothing different but some girth and the name.
The ineptitude of the marketing campaign for the Rezound was epic, we can all agree I'm sure. But as a result, I feel like we are looking at a fall release for an official Sense 4/ ICS build. It probably makes little difference since we have a team working here that will bring the One S software over for us (assuming my assumptions on hardware are correct), but damn, it still irks me given the promises from HTC over the holidays that the Rezound would be getting the updates "early 2012."
I'm a 2 phone household with 2 HTCs. I'll get flamed for this, but if I watch them release these next two phones and then a couple more before they get to us, then I'm probably done with them. I appreciated them admitting that their late 2011 lineup kinda sucked (I love the Rezound, but we all have an issue or two, I know), and I appreciate that they need to fix it. But breaking one off in their most recent customers who bought into the next major release 120-ish days after the release, really?
I'll be happy to eat crow if they hook us up this week, but I got a bad feeling about this!!
I hate to rant, but this is pretty much the only group of people who could possibly understand.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's a different SOC and screen resolution. It's pretty much a totally different phone.
You should look at the specs. The One S is not the rezound, it has a qHD 960x540 super amoled display (with pentile) while the Rezound is HD 1280x720. That's the first difference that popped out to me when reading about the One S. The One series also do not have a removable battery or microsd expansion.
tekhna said:
It's a different SOC and screen resolution. It's pretty much a totally different phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, between reading articles on the X and the S, I guess I've combined them in my head that works for my argument. Still doesn't change it... I'll be an unhappy dude at the end of the week if I don't have a hard date for the upgrade!
a-jive said:
Well, between reading articles on the X and the S, I guess I've combined them in my head that works for my argument. Still doesn't change it... I'll be an unhappy dude at the end of the week if I don't have a hard date for the upgrade!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's par for the course. The real advantage of HTC building less hardware is they have less software to build, which means updates should be much easier.
This is an issue you will run into with any phone manufacturer, nexus devices excluded. I have owned HTC and Samsung devices, and read numerous forums and updates, or lack there of, seems to be heavily discussed for all devices.
tekhna said:
It's par for the course. The real advantage of HTC building less hardware is they have less software to build, which means updates should be much easier.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think that's part of the underlying issue for me. Not 8 weeks ago they were promising flagship quality and hype. This next release looks like classic HTC, pump out new models that address issues from the last batch, but create a whole bunch of new issues 'cause they are trying to be on the bleading edge.
All that, but I'm probably just jealous of the X. Looks pretty hot, really
a-jive said:
The One S, at least from the specs I've seen, looks A LOT like the Rezound. I didn't compare specs super closely, but I have a hunch they have the same processor and screen; meaning there is ultimately nothing different but some girth and the name.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If, by "nothing different," you mean to ignore the lower resolution screen (960 x 540), non-removable battery, lack of SD card slot, and lack of both CDMA and LTE, you're right.
Dalamar1320 said:
This is an issue you will run into with any phone manufacturer, nexus devices excluded. I have owned HTC and Samsung devices, and read numerous forums and updates, or lack there of, seems to be heavily discussed for all devices.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Haha, I know. Hate to be the first to lose my composure on the issue... but it's been eating at me all day. A couple beers and cruising through some articles got me to the breaking point!
You think HTC is taking forever for the update, imagine owning a Samsung or Motorola phone.
And to be honest. I would rather have a cm9/ pure aosp build of ICS on the rezound then a senseafied ICS.
I know not everyone feels that way, but I have always been an AOSP kinda Guy, and had the GNEX not sucked balls I'd probably still have it.
Sent from my ADR6425LVW using XDA App
It's how Android goes.. Thanks to the fragmentation of the market you should always expect slow updates (shy of the Nexus). I'm pretty sure we'll get 4.0 before the 3.6 w/ 4.0.3 is officially released to us. I myself am hoping for the data/calls/text in the CM 9 thread to be fixed. Android will always be slow on updates, period, end of story. It's why we root/unlock our phones in hopes of obtaining updates fatser than they are provided. Inb4 Android update speed gets compared to iOS update speed and W7.
Just wait till we get a dump of the Inc3
Sent from my ADR6425LVW using XDA App
don't feel jaded at all. None of those phones have been slated to be released on verizon and only the x has somewhat better specs. The rezound will get ICS, probably before any moto or samsung phones.
I would be upset if I had a Razr, then they release the maxx 2 months later, or if I had the Bionic and the Razr came out a couple of months later.
Seriously, if it bothers you that much, you should stick to nexus phones.
nrfitchett4 said:
I would be upset if I had a Razr, then they release the maxx 2 months later, .
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No kidding.
There where people on one of the Razr sites that where absolutely LIVID about that one.......(can't say I blame them)
I just upgraded this weekend. I thought a physical keyboard would be great, so I picked up a Droid 4. Needless to say, I didn't own it for more than 28 hours before I returned it, and picked up a Rezound.
At the end of the day, having the ability to HTC unlock and with the cult-following this phone seems to have found, I think we're going to have a solid amount of success, with or without "official" help from HTC. I somewhat hope you have to eat crow though if I'm being honest
Also keep in mind, i have not seen one announcement of a phone so far (at least major brand that we care about) that seems to be heading to VZ. None of the HTC phones were announced with CDMA (and the LTE radios are the wrong channel for us), and while it could change (no doubt will eventually), so far, we still have the best HTC VZ phone...
Divine_Madcat said:
Also keep in mind, i have not seen one announcement of a phone so far (at least major brand that we care about) that seems to be heading to VZ. None of the HTC phones were announced with CDMA (and the LTE radios are the wrong channel for us), and while it could change (no doubt will eventually), so far, we still have the best HTC VZ phone...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As far as I'm concerned HTC doesn't even need to compile ICS, just hand over the ICS hardware binary for the Rezound and all will be well. I'd compile my own ICS if they'd just do us that one favor.
I'm coming from a Galaxy S on Sprint, now Rezound on VZW. It's funny, there are posts in every forum for every phone where people think their phone's manufacturer is the absolute worst in getting OS updates out. Samsung people think Samsung is the worst, Motorola people think Motorola is the worst, etc. As someone else said, as long as manufacturers and carriers are both involved in the process of getting OS updates out, it's always going to suck. That's the main reason to get Nexus device, but personally I'd rather have the Rezound. Honestly I'm just happy that HTC is at least acknowledging that an update for the Rezound is coming - Samsung is notorious for not giving out any information at all.
a-jive said:
I hope I'm wrong, and early in my dismay. And there may well be an announcement in the next few days that we will be getting a major update, but I'm feeling a little shafted by HTC.
<Edit: Fine, I didn't watch specs close at all, the S isn't the Rezound, and the X has some shortfalls as well. The argument still stands, poor marketing lead to poor adoption, and the end result *may* mean we have another few months with our not-quite-perfected Sense 3.6 leak.>
The ineptitude of the marketing campaign for the Rezound was epic, we can all agree I'm sure. But as a result, I feel like we are looking at a fall release for an official Sense 4/ ICS build. It probably makes little difference since we have a team working here that will bring the One S software over for us (assuming my assumptions on hardware are correct), but damn, it still irks me given the promises from HTC over the holidays that the Rezound would be getting the updates "early 2012."
I'm a 2 phone household with 2 HTCs. I'll get flamed for this, but if I watch them release these next two phones and then a couple more before they get to us, then I'm probably done with them. I appreciated them admitting that their late 2011 lineup kinda sucked (I love the Rezound, but we all have an issue or two, I know), and I appreciate that they need to fix it. But breaking one off in their most recent customers who bought into the next major release 120-ish days after the release, really?
I'll be happy to eat crow if they hook us up this week, but I got a bad feeling about this!!
I hate to rant, but this is pretty much the only group of people who could possibly understand.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree, no question. This debacle has turned me off to HTC's pathetic customer relations and I doubt I'll buy another HTC device.
MrSmith317 said:
As far as I'm concerned HTC doesn't even need to compile ICS, just hand over the ICS hardware binary for the Rezound and all will be well. I'd compile my own ICS if they'd just do us that one favor.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
True that. We, the power users, are really the only ones who take much notice to this issue. Its very easy to keep us happy... And they get free software development from the deal as well!
Related
Maybe this sheds more hope on the X2 getting ICS? The main difference between the phones are the X2 has a dual-core processor while the Incredible 2 has a single-core, but the Incredible 2 has 768MB of RAM while the X2 has 512MB. They both came out at around the same time period as well. Wouldn't the dual-core/single-core processor make a bigger difference on performance with ICS versus the 256MB extra of RAM?
http://www.droid-life.com/2012/02/1...nd-rhyme-will-all-receive-ice-cream-sandwich/
If the Incredible 2 gets it and the X2 doesn't I'm going to be slightly frustrated on the matter.
Hmm, unlocked bootloaders on older phones as well as ICS?
HTC is where I'm headed next when it's time to upgrade this summer...
Well, unless memory management is a real mess on Android, I don't see why 512MBs of ram isn't enough. I ran WinXP for something like 2 years with 512 for 2 years and it ran smooth and fast. Then I added another 512 and to be honest, I couldn't tell the difference. The two OS's don't even compare when it comes to size and what needs to be loaded into ram.
Granted, the processor on the computer was twice as fast as the one on the X2, but I know people who ran XP just fine on the same amount of ram and a 1GHz single core processor. A bit slower than mine, but it ran fine. Perhaps I'm missing something. Don't know but it doesn't make sense to me.
its simple
Motorola has released so many freaking phones lately that they do not have the time/manpower to keep up with updating them so they are gonna pick their biggest sellers and update them.
the x2 was simply a flop seller for them.
between the D3 coming out close to it, and the buzz around the bionic at the time, along with all the returned devices because the damn phone can't even play music smoothly consistently, it just seems like they aren't to worried about the relatively "small" percentage of customers they will piss off either by taking WAY to long to update us, or just altogether snuffing us on the update...
rant rant rant bla bla bla and all that nonsensical banter
Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk
ashclepdia said:
its simple
Motorola has released so many freaking phones lately that they do not have the time/manpower to keep up with updating them so they are gonna pick their biggest sellers and update them.
the x2 was simply a flop seller for them.
between the D3 coming out close to it, and the buzz around the bionic at the time, along with all the returned devices because the damn phone can't even play music smoothly consistently, it just seems like they aren't to worried about the relatively "small" percentage of customers they will piss off either by taking WAY to long to update us, or just altogether snuffing us on the update...
rant rant rant bla bla bla and all that nonsensical banter
Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You, sir, get a gold star and go to the head of the class. In other word, right on the money.
hell even the HTC thunderbolt is getting ICS
Sent from my MB870 using Tapatalk
ztotherad said:
hell even the HTC thunderbolt is getting ICS
Sent from my MB870 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hence, that's why I'm going HTC for my next phone. They at least seem to give a crap about their customers whereas Motorola wants to saturate the market with as many new phones as possible, going completely against their promise not to do so.
Oh well, this is the same company that promised to unlock their bootloaders by the 4th quarter of 2011 and we all now how smooth and wonderful that went.
I know someone posted that he despised HTC because they didn't seem to last long , going bad in a few months due to hardware failures. Has anyone else noticed that before or even now? Just curious.
iBolski said:
Hence, that's why I'm going HTC for my next phone. They at least seem to give a crap about their customers whereas Motorola wants to saturate the market with as many new phones as possible, going completely against their promise not to do so.
Oh well, this is the same company that promised to unlock their bootloaders by the 4th quarter of 2011 and we all now how smooth and wonderful that went.
I know someone posted that he despised HTC because they didn't seem to last long , going bad in a few months due to hardware failures. Has anyone else noticed that before or even now? Just curious.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The HTC phone owners I know absolutely rave about their phones. I haven't heard about any hardware failures from them, and we talk about our phones frequently. So far, I've heard the best reviews on the Rezound. Which HTC are you considering?
ashclepdia said:
its simple
Motorola has released so many freaking phones lately that they do not have the time/manpower to keep up with updating them so they are gonna pick their biggest sellers and update them.
the x2 was simply a flop seller for them.
between the D3 coming out close to it, and the buzz around the bionic at the time, along with all the returned devices because the damn phone can't even play music smoothly consistently, it just seems like they aren't to worried about the relatively "small" percentage of customers they will piss off either by taking WAY to long to update us, or just altogether snuffing us on the update...
rant rant rant bla bla bla and all that nonsensical banter
Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1 , indeed.
Think that the massive amounts of phones being created and released will decrease now that Google has acquired Motorola? That maybe, just maybe, they'll focus on quality over quantity?
iBolski said:
Hence, that's why I'm going HTC for my next phone. They at least seem to give a crap about their customers whereas Motorola wants to saturate the market with as many new phones as possible, going completely against their promise not to do so.
Oh well, this is the same company that promised to unlock their bootloaders by the 4th quarter of 2011 and we all now how smooth and wonderful that went.
I know someone posted that he despised HTC because they didn't seem to last long , going bad in a few months due to hardware failures. Has anyone else noticed that before or even now? Just curious.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I had a tmobile htc g1 for like 3 years. That thing was indestructible, and i even had gingerbread on it when it finally died. It fell into water no less, not even a hardware failure. Since then iv had an Incredible, which was a tough cookie as well, and a thunderbolt after that. Any talk of failures bar the software bugs the Tbolt had in its release IMO are pretty few and far between. i know i had great luck with them, and had i not loved my droidx so much in the time i had it, i probably wouldnt have a dx2. i do miss my unlocked bootloaders, and 1.8ghz OC on my tbolt too bad the battery life was atrocious. Id say go for an htc next
I also have to think that HTC has hit upon something with their recent commentary about shifting from producing a lot of models of smartphone to producing a few very GOOD models of smartphone. I'm all for this, I don't see any reason why there should be 10 varieties of phone from a single vendor on a couple of carriers, you're just creating problems like what we're seeing from Motorola here.
iBolski said:
Hence, that's why I'm going HTC for my next phone. They at least seem to give a crap about their customers whereas Motorola wants to saturate the market with as many new phones as possible, going completely against their promise not to do so.
Oh well, this is the same company that promised to unlock their bootloaders by the 4th quarter of 2011 and we all now how smooth and wonderful that went.
I know someone posted that he despised HTC because they didn't seem to last long , going bad in a few months due to hardware failures. Has anyone else noticed that before or even now? Just curious.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In my past experience with HTC phones they didn't last long at all. I had a few crap out on me with hardware failure. But, that was a few years ago they may have better hardware now. Or I would really hope so anyways.
Sent from my MB870 using xda premium
Every phone I've ever bought turned out to be crap and loose support within months. Next Time its either HTC or Samsung. I vowed not to get Motorola before I bought the X2 but bought it anyway. I love the phone but once again feel shafted.
Our company went with the origional incredible (10-15 phones) and didn't have many hardware issues that I'm aware of. Coverage was typical far as I could tell.
Me, I took a X back then and loved it till they killed it with GB. They offered me a few choices as a free replacement and I took the X2 thinking I had the docks etc for it.
At this point I'm not hesitating to jump ship from Moto, like alot have already said, to many phones pushed onto the market spreading the support for them way way to thin.
Sent from my MB870 using XDA App
i wasn't impressed with my samsung. my fascinate seemed like it was forgotten the moment it was released. nice screen, though. my inc2 is three times the phone that was, and is currently running ICS with very few bugs, save for buggy camera. the biggest issue and gripe about htc is the audio. on the inc2, at least, the audio levels are low on custom roms unless tweaked in the kernel, due to the weird way they did the audio on this phone. i do like the phone, but for pure modding, i don't think you can beat a nexus. that may be my next device. i'd LOVE to see an HTC nexus.
tspderek said:
i'd LOVE to see an HTC nexus.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yep, the N1 (and its twin, the original Desire) is one of the best Android phones of all time.
I don't understand why you guys are complaining that X2 isn't getting ICS. I mean this phone came out in April or May11... There has only been 1 phone to even release with ICS since then and the next is still about a month out. By the time a ICS update would even hit for this phone, you would probably be a couple months from a upgrade anyway and a waaay better phone.
btw I had a HTC Incredible. Amazing phone and I abused the heck out of it on a physical and software level. Id go back to HTC in a heartbeat when their tegra 3 phone comes out.
I'mma be honest. I personally don't care if this phone gets ICS or not. I've toyed around with a nexus before and I still don't see what the big fuss over ICS is about. Sure ICS would be cool, but I wouldnt cry if I didn't get it lol.
754boy said:
I'mma be honest. I personally don't care if this phone gets ICS or not. I've toyed around with a nexus before and I still don't see what the big fuss over ICS is about. Sure ICS would be cool, but I wouldnt cry if I didn't get it lol.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
but the fact remains
Motorola publicly stated/promised to give updates and support devices for 18 MONTHS AFTER RELEASE. our x2 is perfectly capable of handling ics, we SHOULD get it. if we don't I for one will chalk it up to Motorola being lazy, not trying hard enough,.and being greedy (many people WANT ics and by not updating x2 many people will go buy a new device)
Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk
All this talk about HTC and Sami phones being better and all. But put aside cool features and even usability cuz of an unlocked bootloader. Do they sound as good as a phone?
I thought the D3 was a better sounding but had to choose ours cuz of the Bluetooth tone that is forced on D3 users. Yet I never heard a phone sound as good as the original Droid.
Rant off.
754boy said:
I'mma be honest. I personally don't care if this phone gets ICS or not. I've toyed around with a nexus before and I still don't see what the big fuss over ICS is about. Sure ICS would be cool, but I wouldnt cry if I didn't get it lol.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Because of hardware acceleration. It offloads graphical processing from the CPU and places it where it belongs: on the GPU.
Better multitasking via a kernel rewrite to make the system smoother.
Those are the two biggies for me.
And, unless the X2 gets an ICS kernel, you won't see those two things.
I received a call yesterday from an HTC wanting to discuss a rather critical customer support feedback survey I recently submitted. In the course of the conversation he mentioned the ICS upgrade and I asked him when they expect that to happen. His answer:
"It'll be late May or the second half of this year."
I asked him to repeat it, and whether he had any evidence to confirm that. He said he was sure of the time frame. Make of it what you will, but I've suspected for a while we really got boned in the butt with this one. Give up on an official ICS release in any timely manner.
That's what I figured. When I was researching buying this phone and they said "Late Q1", I was skeptical and said it would probably be more like May. We got confirmation that they were blowing smoke when they announced the Rezound wouldn't be until "later this year".
The CS rep you spoke with seems to align with "later this year".
There has to be a way to get faster updates. What happened to the Google Android Update Alliance?
So basically what he said is sometime this year. That's a pretty big window, so basically we will see an official ICS build within the next 9 months. This is the very reason I root my phone. We already have very stable fully functional ICS builds thanks to our Devs. I don't understand how our Devs can get a great build for us, but yet the "professionals" can't seem to make it happen.
davidbudd1 said:
So basically what he said is sometime this year. That's a pretty big window, so basically we will see an official ICS build within the next 9 months. This is the very reason I root my phone. We already have very stable fully functional ICS builds thanks to our Devs. I don't understand how our Devs can get a great build for us, but yet the "professionals" can't seem to make it happen.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Because they aren't concerned with us getting updates. They just work on the next phone and get around to us if they feel like it.
Sent from my Rizzy Rezound
I'm betting it has something to do with Verizon ,not htc. Id blame Verizon for slowing down any update or rom upgrade. Simply because Verizon is testing it to find all the software bugs and tricks embedded in the ROM. And they are determining what bloatware and/or cripplrware they want to stuff in it before its release. Thats why the date keeps getting pushed ahead. Srnd it back to htc devs after vzw is done. Htc tweaks it more, vzw wants to do more to it...and back to htc yet again... :/
The alliance is a joke.
More marketing bs. Great phone though
Sent from my ADR6425LVW using xda premium
I'm still sticking to the summer, but yea, rooting is the way to go.
Even sadder ICS news
http://phandroid.com/2012/03/06/htc-sensation-line-to-get-android-4-0-but-only-sense-3-6/
I think if this is the case with the Rezound rooting will be a must.
Thank goodness for the leaks. They have certainly gotten to the point of being solid and give me most of what I want out of the update. But it doesn't change the fact that Android/Sense 4.0 is ready and working on other phones and they clearly don't have much respect for their previous promises or customers.
I'm sure VZW gets partial blame here, but they are all hurting their reputations together. The extra wait better result in us getting Sense 4! If we just get a bloated official 3.6 I say we get the pitchforks!
Funny, gingerbread with sense 3.5 looks and acts basically like ics with sense 3.6. I tried Joel's sense 4.0 rom and it was pretty cool. This is why we root folks. Never trust the carrier or manufacturers. Stick with the developers!
I'm sure VZW puts HTC through hell with the roms for VZW phones. Definately sucks, but IMO, the longer its put off the more likely we are to get sense 4.0
a-jive said:
...they clearly don't have much respect for their previous promises or customers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
welcome to retail. HTC/Verizon already has your money. They sold you a phone with whatever software is had on it at the time. They aren't obgliated to update it at all. they do so in order to keep customers happy. its not just HTC either, motorola, samsung, LG, company x; all the same with software updates. Their policy is update the newest first then work their way back. it cost money to develop updates for every single phone model, thats just the way it is. I have learned to not worr or wait for official updates and just use what this great development community has provided to us....4 months early.
the ICS ROMS out right now are honestly magical. Try them out.
I predict that we won't see anything until the "one" is out for at least a month and the buying of that device begins slowing.
KORM via the beast known as the Rezound.
racinwarrior said:
Their policy is update the newest first then work their way back. it cost money to develop updates for every single phone model, thats just the way it is. I have learned to not worr or wait for official updates and just use what this great development community has provided to us....4 months early.
the ICS ROMS out right now are honestly magical. Try them out.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've been following these threads but refraining from posting in them .
I understand your point, however, Android 4.0 was released/announced just prior to the release of the Rezound. If potential customers of the Rezound knew they would not be updated for close to another year (likely when Android 5.0 will be out) I'm sure that would've swayed many buyers.
I myself as well as most of us users on here aren't too hurt about this thanks to our awesome Devs but it sucks to know a lot of people dropped some nice coin for phone that HTC/Verizon have obviously not held their end of the deal of "Will receive ICS in early 2012". This was stated in red lettering on the spec list of the Rezound on the Verizon website.
Marcismo55 said:
If potential customers of the Rezound knew they would not be updated for close to another year (likely when Android 5.0 will be out) I'm sure that would've swayed many buyers.
.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't really agree & I'm not trying to argue at all.
My point is that the average VZ customer could care less about updates to a phone that basically worked just fine out of the box.
I am the head of our corporate cell phone account with almost 200 phones & if you said "ICS update" to any of our users you would be met with a blank stare as they wouldn't have the first clue what you where talking about. As long as they can turn on their phones & it functions as it's supposed to, they are perfectly happy with it.
Marcismo55 said:
I've been following these threads but refraining from posting in them .
I understand your point, however, Android 4.0 was released/announced just prior to the release of the Rezound. If potential customers of the Rezound knew they would not be updated for close to another year (likely when Android 5.0 will be out) I'm sure that would've swayed many buyers.
I myself as well as most of us users on here aren't too hurt about this thanks to our awesome Devs but it sucks to know a lot of people dropped some nice coin for phone that HTC/Verizon have obviously not held their end of the deal of "Will receive ICS in early 2012". This was stated in red lettering on the spec list of the Rezound on the Verizon website.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you are def right and i agree. it sucks that consumers are fed lies to sell products. honestly though you have to think of it as a numbers game for VZW.
How many people bought the rezound? 1 million (for ease of math)
How many of those people actually care what OS their phone has? maybe 10%?
of that 100000, how many really know the advantages of ICS vs GB? maybe another 10%?
i mean its a small piece of the VZW pie when you think about it.
plus when the next big HTC phone hits the shelves for sale VZW can advertise is as the "first 4.0 HTC device"
it will be summer before we see this. all i want ice cream for is so the devs can finally get us aosp.
racinwarrior said:
How many people bought the rezound? 1 million (for ease of math)
How many of those people actually care what OS their phone has? maybe 10%?
of that 100000, how many really know the advantages of ICS vs GB? maybe another 10%?
i mean its a small piece of the VZW pie when you think about it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is exactly the point I was making.
It is only posters to sites like this who really care about things like ICS updates & we are such a tiny fraction of Verizons 100 million customers. If every single XDA poster switched to Sprint tomorrow, VZ wouldn't even notice the hit........
This isn't anything new. The HTC Droid Eris was stuck on Android 1.5 forever. I'm pretty sure Android 2.2 Froyo was out already by the time the Droid Eris got its official Android 2.1 update. Based on the past, I wouldn't be surprised if we see the official release of Jelly Bean sometime before we get the official ICS update for the Rezound. I was also fully prepared for the possibility that we'd have an AOSP port working before we get the official ICS update from Verizon. The Droid Eris already has a mostly working AOSP ICS port and they haven't had an official update since Android 2.1 to base anything off of, so I know its possible with the right amount of time and patience.
Anyways, going forward its very possible we are only going to have AOSP ports for the Rezound, because it is entirely possible at this point that ICS will be the last officially supported version of Android for this phone.
SamXp said:
What happened to the Google Android Update Alliance?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hehe. Hehehe. Yeah, I remember that happening too. That was cute.
But yeah, honestly, they didn't attach any teeth to this agreement so there's no incentive for any of the manufacturers to honor it.
looks like moto has pushed back ICS to Q4 for the Photon
http://forums.motorola.com/pages/00add97d6c
I saw the tweet too. MAJOR disappointment, and it looks like I will be turning to Rooting for my ICS fix. (I was prepared to wait it out, but no longer.)
I was plannign to stay with this phone for another year or so, but...
HTC EVO 4G LTE here I come!!!!
geova87 said:
I was plannign to stay with this phone for another year or so, but...
HTC EVO 4G LTE here I come!!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So funny!
that sucks! but not like it matters to me. how many ics roms do we already have that work almost perfect.
Moto Sucks !
ICS is likely a no-go now since next Android version will be out before the end of this year along with brand new devices. Since Sprint has only one Moto phone, who will really care about Photon !
Typical tactics by the vendors and carriers to keep their devices as close to the 18 months mark as possible. Apparently, carriers are expected to update the software within first 18 months of release only. By end of the Q4, it will be almost 18 months.
Funny that officially, the only Moto device that got ICE is the Xoom tablet ... and Google own Motorola !
Time to seriously think about Windows 8 Phone. It is also shaping up to be an interesting OS.
Thank you so much motorola for announcing this AFTER getting the 2.3.5 update, so not only are you not giving me ICS when you said, I can't get it myself either. I liked this phone, but this really pushed me over the edge. HTC or Samsung next.
Honestly it doesn't matter to much. At least now they are in development, so hopefully we can get a soak test. Then we can get the drivers we need.
Sent from my MB855 using XDA
Are you kidding me? When I went to get a new phone this spring, getting ICS was a pr-requisite for any phone I looked at. If it doesn't end up with an ICS update, I'm gonna be pissed.
Dont know why anyone didnt see this coming. I said this would happen when they announced ICS and got flamed. Motorola doesnt give two ****s about its customers and they show it every day. Once I get rid of this piece of crap Photon, I will NEVER own another Motorola product.
I was excited to get this phone and its been a complete disappointment.
#screwyoumotorola
Well, that's the problem with Android, isn't it? That it's a complete train wreck. Microsoft and Apple are pissed at Google because Google is giving away their OS while they sell theirs, which allows OEMs to build monster Android phones (i.e. they put the OS cost toward better hardware).
It isn't in the OEMs' best interest to update their phones. Not at all. We are not Motorola's customers. US Cellular is. Sprint is. And the other carriers who buy Motorola phones (and tablets, perhaps). As Motorola's customer, Sprint (to use one) is not best served by last years' phones being updated to the next OS. No, Sprint makes more money if your next device has ICS. That results in a second sale for them. They already sell the phone to you at a serious loss, with a contract. So, why should they support the phone beyond the life of the contract? You buy a Gingerbread phone at a great price. They are hoping you will buy an ICS phone at a great price in two years.
To the carriers, Android smartphones are evolving too fast. Updates are coming out faster than they are comfortable with. They like the iPhone model better -- fewer than half a dozen devices, all the same basic hardware, easy update. Same with WP7/WP8 to come, so few devices. And of course higher costs = higher profits.
Meanwhile, the developers at XDA and the like help you extend your phone's life. I have ICS on my Electrify (Photon) and it's awesome. When I got it, everybody was saying it couldn't be unlocked. But somebody figured it out. Now I'm running CM9 (ICS) and it's given my phone a completely unnecessary kick in the pants. I didn't think there was much room for improvement (and maybe a CM7-based, Blur-free ROM would have been a good choice, as well) but it's really lit a fire under my phone's, eh, kickstand.
I understand that people want to jump to HTC or Samsung. I say go ahead. It's not in the best interests of either of those companies to get you ICS sooner than later, either. Motorola makes the best radio out of any of the three. If you want upgrades sooner, I think your absolute best bet is to get a Nexus straight from Google, but those may be GSM-only? Even if one is CDMA, I doubt US Cellular will activate it for me. So that will not work in my case, I don't think. I think the best thing for everybody is a place where developers can come together and work on custom ROMs for these phones and be thanked or even donated to by those who can... hmm... a place kind of like this one.
Can't say I'm shocked.
Lame!
Sent from my MB855 using xda premium
To postpone it in hopes that people buy the next photon or whatever, and hide behind how "difficult" it is to push this out, is one thing..
but to also come out with a 2.3.5 update that completely prevents people from customizing their phones and make due with some unofficial ics fun till the real thing comes, is a pretty shtty move.
Are they saying "Boo!" or "Booo-urns!"?
Doesn't surprise me one bit. How many devices other then the Nexus see more then 2 software updates? Maybe 1 or 2,if they're a flagship device and they break some sales record. Even if you buy a high end device there's no guarantee anymore you'll get any future updates regardless of what the companies behind it say.
Considering that 2 of the DROID devices got cut from the list I don't expect us to get the official update at all
sent from deep space on a random Photon
I was holding off on running an ICS ROM on my phone to wait for the official update.
This is why my next device will be my first iPhone. I already own a 3rd gen iPod Touch and I STILL get the latest updates for it straight from Apple. I love the fact that when Apple pushes out an update, it's not for just one device, but for all of them! They all come out on the same day so there is no waiting for "when's it gonna be my turn".
I really think Google needs to take a more proactive approach to the Android updates.
the problem is the carrier.
That being said, they probably have enough leverage in the marketplace to put mandates on carriers.
me too
Aquos1 said:
I was holding off on running an ICS ROM on my phone to wait for the official update.
This is why my next device will be my first iPhone. I already own a 3rd gen iPod Touch and I STILL get the latest updates for it straight from Apple. I love the fact that when Apple pushes out an update, it's not for just one device, but for all of them! They all come out on the same day so there is no waiting for "when's it gonna be my turn".
I really think Google needs to take a more proactive approach to the Android updates.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I totally agree. I too was waiting for the ICS update before installing a custom ROM. Guess I have no more reason to wait.
However I would never want an "I" product.
findthedr said:
the problem is the carrier.
That being said, they probably have enough leverage in the marketplace to put mandates on carriers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So you think ICS is done and Sprint is holding things up? Yea, right.
MadFlava said:
So you think ICS is done and Sprint is holding things up? Yea, right.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was wrong saying carrier only. Its carrier/manufacturer.
Android ICS "code" is done. It would be an easy push if all devices were Nexus. The holdup is motorola adding their flavors like blur, and carriers with their requirements and bloatware.
Just a heads up. The end of July is 10 weeks, so let's hope its closer to June...
http://www.htc.com/www/help/android4faq/?cid=android4blog
Aight coo
Did I just assume when I bought it that it would be in the first wave? Or did they actually say that when the Rezound was launched? I honestly can't remember.
rabidpencil said:
Did I just assume when I bought it that it would be in the first wave? Or did they actually say that when the Rezound was launched? I honestly can't remember.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think it was supposed to be "first quarter" which I guess is in June now.
Once again, I'll believe it when I see the OTA notification on my phone.
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk 2
I'm getting really sick of this ****. It's been 6 months since ICS came out, and very, very few phones have ICS. It's embarrasing and starting to make me reconsider Android. I'm happy rooted and ROMed, but you shouldn't need to hack your phone to get updates.
tekhna said:
I'm getting really sick of this ****. It's been 6 months since ICS came out, and very, very few phones have ICS. It's embarrasing and starting to make me reconsider Android. I'm happy rooted and ROMed, but you shouldn't need to hack your phone to get updates.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you want incessant updates that constantly disables jailbreak you're more than welcome to hit up ios.
I don't really see what the problem is other just impatience. People who don't do custom roms still have a perfectly useable phone on GB, and those who can't wait have a lot of extra options.
Sent from my ADR6425LVW using Tapatalk 2
my first thought was "if this is another crappy article making radical claims someones getting an angry letter"
good to hear =)
should be happy the ETA isn't in 2013 at the current rollout rates hehe
tekhna said:
I'm getting really sick of this ****. It's been 6 months since ICS came out, and very, very few phones have ICS. It's embarrasing and starting to make me reconsider Android. I'm happy rooted and ROMed, but you shouldn't need to hack your phone to get updates.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And look at the GNex. Six months after release and still on 4.0.2. If you have one of those you must really be steaming. What happened to the Google Experience?
tonictonic said:
If you want incessant updates that constantly disables jailbreak you're more than welcome to hit up ios.
I don't really see what the problem is other just impatience. People who don't do custom roms still have a perfectly useable phone on GB, and those who can't wait have a lot of extra options.
Sent from my ADR6425LVW using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Another thing I hate--false dichotomies. If I want updates iOS, if I want a bigger screen and openness, Android.
BS. It's possible to have both. If, for example, HTC had stuck to their hero device model and ONLY released a One X, S, and V, do you think updates would be difficult? Nope. It'd be easy.
Samsung? Well, updates would be easy too if they release a GSM GS3, a CDMA/LTE GS3 and a GSM/LTE GS3, but I'd guess by December we'll have the Galaxy S3 Skyrocket HD Supreme LTE 5G Maxxx.
Release fewer, better models. Easier software updates. Not hard. Not iOS.
tekhna said:
Another thing I hate--false dichotomies. If I want updates iOS, if I want a bigger screen and openness, Android.
BS. It's possible to have both. If, for example, HTC had stuck to their hero device model and ONLY released a One X, S, and V, do you think updates would be difficult? Nope. It'd be easy.
Samsung? Well, updates would be easy too if they release a GSM GS3, a CDMA/LTE GS3 and a GSM/LTE GS3, but I'd guess by December we'll have the Galaxy S3 Skyrocket HD Supreme LTE 5G Maxxx.
Release fewer, better models. Easier software updates. Not hard. Not iOS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I only half disagree with this. If it were up to HTC/Samsung/Google/etc. all the devices, more than likely, would be kept up to date, and in a somewhat timely fashion.
Look at the Verizon GNex. Do you think Google and Samsung don't have a working build of 4.0.4 on it? Sure they do. Verizon just isn't happy with it, for whatever reason. Same thing applies to 90% of phones in the US.
The international, unlocked versions of phones get the newer updates faster than their US counterparts, and the cell companies have a huge impact on that.
I'm not saying manufacturers and Google don't deserve some of the blame, because they do; they're pretty lazy and complacent in a way that Apple would never be. But I think Verizon is more at fault than any other party, and I'd like to see the cell companies get more heat than Google over this stuff lately.
tekhna said:
but I'd guess by December we'll have the Galaxy S3 Skyrocket HD Supreme LTE 5G Maxxx.
.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh, my, God. I must have that device. Lol awesome name.
tekhna said:
I'm getting really sick of this ****. It's been 6 months since ICS came out, and very, very few phones have ICS. It's embarrasing and starting to make me reconsider Android. I'm happy rooted and ROMed, but you shouldn't need to hack your phone to get updates.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't care about whether or not stock phones can get updates or not. The only point I'll start getting annoyed is when it starts becoming difficult to even ROM the phone. In our case, we don't have kernel source. In my world, that's the only real big issue with fragmentation: With so many different hardware configurations out and more and more proprietary software sprouting up (the plethora grows!), getting someone to create a stable ROM and maintain it becomes ever harder.
All this choice is good for people with different things in mind and even though ICS is the business, Gingerbread (IMO) is still pretty sweet. Stock Gingerbread, that is. But boy, now we're having a hard time getting kernels made, the number of devices we have are definitely starting to outpace the number of developers with the time on their hands, etc.
Really you guys don't see a problem with it taking so long to get updates? I know I do. So maybe we will have an update in 6-8 weeks and kernel source in 8-10 that's great. I often wonder what HTC does all day. Must be a pretty laid back place to work.
Sent from my ADR6425LVW using xda premium
I'm sick of these "announcements". Not because of not having ICS (because we do) but the amount "announcements" we have had that were bull****.
Yea but most of these "announcements" have obviously been fake. I don't recall HTC ever putting anything out saying when they would roll updates out. I could be wrong though as I haven't given it too much attention
mentallo said:
I'm sick of these "announcements". Not because of not having ICS (because we do) but the amount "announcements" we have had that were bull****.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is the first word from HTC regarding the update. In reality, all the other "announcements" were unconfirmed rumors.
xdadevnube said:
Just a heads up. The end of July is 10 weeks, so let's hope its closer to June...
http://www.htc.com/www/help/android4faq/?cid=android4blog
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
only 10 weeks...this puts how short the summer is into perspective. i think ill sit back and try to stop obsessively checking the forums for nebulous ics updates and enjoy the summer. hell we worry more about it then some devs do
The problem is, is that if the upgrade is slated to hit at the end of July, it'll be August possibly before we get kernel source since it usually takes like two weeks for source to release.
We don't get updates because of device/carrier fragmentation. Each level of choice is an opportunity for the manufacturer or carriert to differentiate their product or service. This is necessary to be competitive with its industry rivals and to continue to grow sales, thus making shareholders happy. It becomes difficult to allocate resources to support such a wide range of hardware apps and carrier specific needs, so the choice has to be made, which device to support. Then it becomes a question as to, support for which user base will benefit the company most. But this always come behind pushing the newest product, as support is an expense which only produces goodwill. That being said they almost always promise that whatever their selling will be fully supported and updated expeditiously.
These "carrier updates" are just getting ridiculous...
Sent from my Droid DNA using Tapatalk 2!
This phone will be lucky to get 4.2.2 but I highly doubt it goes past that,
HTC and Samsung have completely flipped stances on updates over the last 3 years and it is now HTC who gives their devices 6 month lifespans.
mwl1119 said:
This phone will be lucky to get 4.2.2 but I highly doubt it goes past that,
HTC and Samsung have completely flipped stances on updates over the last 3 years and it is now HTC who gives their devices 6 month lifespans.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
this phone will be getting 4.2.2 for sure. HTC and llabtoofer confirmed. probably nothing official after that, but i think we'll see dev support for a long time with this phone. its pretty solid
[indiferenc] said:
this phone will be getting 4.2.2 for sure. HTC and llabtoofer confirmed. probably nothing official after that, but i think we'll see dev support for a long time with this phone. its pretty solid
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Verizon seems to be putting all their support into Motorola, Samsung, and Apple.
I'll be shocked if we get 4.2.2 officially before the year ends.... if ever.
mwl1119 said:
Verizon seems to be putting all their support into Motorola, Samsung, and Apple.
I'll be shocked if we get 4.2.2 officially before the year ends.... if ever.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
its already confirmed. besides, after the verizon one comes out in august, we'll have a CDMA port of 4.2.2 anyway, so it wont even matter much
[indiferenc] said:
its already confirmed. besides, after the verizon one comes out in august, we'll have a CDMA port of 4.2.2 anyway, so it wont even matter much
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yea we will have a freshly baked cdma ril for our sense 5 ports. Yum
Sent from my HTC6435LVW using xda premium
so as the One gets updates, we can get ported updates for our DNAs as well?
I highly doubt they'll even consider updating this phone before the One gets 4.2.2/the One hype train dies down. At least a month after release I'd say.
[TSON] said:
I highly doubt they'll even consider updating this phone before the One gets 4.2.2/the One hype train dies down. At least a month after release I'd say.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's really a shame that HTC has decided to never stand behind their devices and are on the verge of chapter 11 due to to it.
The 2 year old Galaxy S II is expected to get android 4.2.2 by the end of summer... possibly before the HTC One. The HTC phone that came out the same year as the GS2 was the Sensation and HTC left it dead on 4.0.3 ICS.
I will not buy another HTC device even though I have only had HTC's since the G1. I'm not sure if I want to go Samsung but I may not have a choice.
HTC should just get out of android and sign a Nokia like deal to make Windows junk.
It's half HTC, half Verizon... The butterfly (international version of our phones) got 4.2.2 with Sense 5! So there's hope. At the least someone figures out how to get it working on CDMA and we can flash it. Honestly all I want is ASOP 4.3. No bugs. I'll be content. Until 5.0 comes out seriously though. I'd rather get an iPhone over any Samsung phone. Then my phone will actually have good build quality. And I'd get updates when they're released. And I'd be extremely limited and forced to join the Apple cult... Oh the struggles. :banghead:
mwl1119 said:
It's really a shame that HTC has decided to never stand behind their devices and are on the verge of chapter 11 due to to it.
The 2 year old Galaxy S II is expected to get android 4.2.2 by the end of summer... possibly before the HTC One. The HTC phone that came out the same year as the GS2 was the Sensation and HTC left it dead on 4.0.3 ICS.
I will not buy another HTC device even though I have only had HTC's since the G1. I'm not sure if I want to go Samsung but I may not have a choice.
HTC should just get out of android and sign a Nokia like deal to make Windows junk.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The way I understand it is that HTC is more than willing to update devices, but the carriers are c-blocking everything. Makes sense too because why should Verizon allow updates to devices when they can sell a newer device and lock in more 2-year contracts.
What really bothers me is the super secret aspect of it all. Why can't they just come out and say what the plan is and tell us what their intent with updates are (HTC and Verizon). What is really killing them is the lack of information which leads to user frustration and people making up things like "Verizon promised that they were going to update the Rezound by June 1st PROMISED!!".
Left scalmet
badogg said:
The way I understand it is that HTC is more than willing to update devices, but the carriers are c-blocking everything. Makes sense too because why should Verizon allow updates to devices when they can sell a newer device and lock in more 2-year contracts.
What really bothers me is the super secret aspect of it all. Why can't they just come out and say what the plan is and tell us what their intent with updates are (HTC and Verizon). What is really killing them is the lack of information which leads to user frustration and people making up things like "Verizon promised that they were going to update the Rezound by June 1st PROMISED!!".
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That would be true if it weren't for the fact that other phones have seen long support on Verizon and other carriers. Don't have to look further than the Droid Bionic/RAZR to see that. Both shipped with 2.3 and have had 4.1 for quite some time now. Meanwhile, both the Incredible 4G and Rezound haven't gotten past ICS in around the same timeframe. The DNA is the last HTC I buy while I'm on Verizon, if it weren't for the fact that I'm S-Off and we have a great DEV community, I'd be out in a second.
Shahaed said:
Honestly all I want is ASOP 4.3. No bugs. I'll be content.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh is that all, not hard to please, are you?
pio_masaki said:
Oh is that all, not hard to please, are you?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Haha, yeah well its not like I'm asking for key lime pie the most frustrating thing about Android is how an update will roll on the Nexus devices and it takes months for any other device. Stupid fragmentation. HTC should focuses of a couple high quality handsets and stick with it. Maybe even one. Follow Apple.
Shahaed said:
Haha, yeah well its not like I'm asking for key lime pie the most frustrating thing about Android is how an update will roll on the Nexus devices and it takes months for any other device. Stupid fragmentation. HTC should focuses of a couple high quality handsets and stick with it. Maybe even one. Follow Apple.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well if they did that we wouldn't see another update at all, we aren't the high quality handset anymore.
It isn't Google's fault for how android gets distributed, it's carrier and manufacturer. I'd take development of custom roms and kernels over a single device being updated faster. To me that's just another ios device. If instant updates are a requirement then really only choices are nexus devices.
Shahaed said:
Haha, yeah well its not like I'm asking for key lime pie the most frustrating thing about Android is how an update will roll on the Nexus devices and it takes months for any other device. Stupid fragmentation. HTC should focuses of a couple high quality handsets and stick with it. Maybe even one. Follow Apple.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Apple has lost almost 50% of there stock value for that reason 1 device only. I will take the top notch devs we have over a free apple device any day. These guys kick ass. Thanks DNA DEVS.
I love our devs and more the better. The thing is there is so many devices not all can be supported. I mean the DNA isn't officially supported by CM or AOKP. The less fragmentation the better. And that Apple company that lost their stock? We'll they're the most profitable company in America. I hate their policies and their OS, but they offer timely updates, and a high quality device. Why? Because their billion dollar R&D budget goes to one phone. Not 17...
badogg said:
The way I understand it is that HTC is more than willing to update devices, but the carriers are c-blocking everything. Makes sense too because why should Verizon allow updates to devices when they can sell a newer device and lock in more 2-year contracts.
What really bothers me is the super secret aspect of it all. Why can't they just come out and say what the plan is and tell us what their intent with updates are (HTC and Verizon). What is really killing them is the lack of information which leads to user frustration and people making up things like "Verizon promised that they were going to update the Rezound by June 1st PROMISED!!".
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your post got me thinking...
How are the new upgrade programs these carriers offer going to effect android? Since you can upgrade every 6 months now will we even see updates at all?
Maybe it forces google to use motorola and lock down android.
Verizon won't update this phone. If they do then you have less of a reason to jump on the newer phones.
And to those confirmed rumors... The Rezound was confirmed JB as well. How'd that go?
If you want updates, leave Verizon and get a Nexus. Otherwise be happy with what you get from our community devs.
Shahaed said:
I love our devs and more the better. The thing is there is so many devices not all can be supported. I mean the DNA isn't officially supported by CM or AOKP. The less fragmentation the better. And that Apple company that lost their stock? We'll they're the most profitable company in America. I hate their policies and their OS, but they offer timely updates, and a high quality device. Why? Because their billion dollar R&D budget goes to one phone. Not 17...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Then go buy an iPhone. And u read the journal, they used to be the most profitable. The reason they are not is because they are a 1pony show. All the tech people are saying they are going down because of all the good android phones.