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I'm a XDA lover
i love to flash ROMs
I'm greatfull to all the wonderful Chefs/developers/users/co-members at XDA
(mostly for the Raphael Forums as thats what i use-99% of times.)
But recently i've noticed that the Forums and developments here on this Forum is not SO lively and ACtive as it used to be i wonder why should that be the case...
I remember the time that there used to be ROM releases every other day but ow its come down to once or twice a week...and sometimes even longer...I've no grudge against any of the Chefs i'm totally aware of the fact that ROM Development ETC takes heck lot of time and effort ...But i feel that its not about the time its about the passion with which people respond to these ROMs they have kind of got dispassionate towards the ROMs and take it for granted and don't appreciate the work of the Chef...
I could be wrong absolutely wrong but this is what i feel.
I'm really sorry if you don't think so...
But i feel we should be greatfull to the DEvelopers/Chefs/Co-members here at XDA they are the ones who help us.
We should not take them for granted.
We should help a person who is in problem rather than thinking that someone else will ofcourse help him/her.
If we are good to people then only people will be good to us.
If we appreciate and praise a Chefs/developers Work then only he/she will be motivated to give us all something even better the next time otherwise he will feel he is just wasting time.
Show respect and regard people XDA is a wonderful place for all of us.
Thank you.
Please feel free to express your opinions.
I'm sorry if some one doesn't agree with me or dislikes this post.
This is not meant to offend anyone.
Thank you everyone.
To MODS: Please let this be here i need an opinion. But if it offends you or is unappropriate its upto all you wonderful people.
I've been coming here for a few years, and it seems as something gets more popular, the more it seems the people involved are less appreciative. I see a LOT of "dang, it's taking you forever to build this rom" or "it's got a bug and sucks, why can't you fix it" and that type of mentality. but on the flip side, some people draw that type of person. I've been using RRE roms for a long time. and while I've seen a few people piss in aruppenthal's post toasties, for the most part, most of the people who use his roms are very appreciative, and supportive.
I know some people won't agree with me, and I'll probably piss off a few people, but when you get this many people in 1 place, you are ALWAYS going to have dipsh!ts and idiots and the like. I mean we're talking about 250k active accounts here. think about a superbowl game.. 30-50k people and there are tons that get arrested, or beaten down cause they're drunk and stupid (or obnoxious) or whatever. I think we're doing exceptionally good here. a TON of people and most of them are nice, supportive and stuff.
Me? I love this board. it's what I consider home. (thanks ryan.)
I agree with u but what did u make so upset my friend. Its true that we have some a..holes in xda. But as jaguar says, u will always have them somewhere.
I still think the raphael area is still in pretty good shape, with helping people and being greatfull to the cooks.
Schnizelbrain
P.S. And if u really whant to thank the chefs/Devs, donate.
mr.jaguar said:
I've been coming here for a few years, and it seems as something gets more popular, the more it seems the people involved are less appreciative. I see a LOT of "dang, it's taking you forever to build this rom" or "it's got a bug and sucks, why can't you fix it" and that type of mentality. but on the flip side, some people draw that type of person. I've been using RRE roms for a long time. and while I've seen a few people piss in aruppenthal's post toasties, for the most part, most of the people who use his roms are very appreciative, and supportive.
I know some people won't agree with me, and I'll probably piss off a few people, but when you get this many people in 1 place, you are ALWAYS going to have dipsh!ts and idiots and the like. I mean we're talking about 250k active accounts here. think about a superbowl game.. 30-50k people and there are tons that get arrested, or beaten down cause they're drunk and stupid (or obnoxious) or whatever. I think we're doing exceptionally good here. a TON of people and most of them are nice, supportive and stuff.
Me? I love this board. it's what I consider home. (thanks ryan.)
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I totally agree.
mr.jaguar said:
I've been coming here for a few years, and it seems as something gets more popular, the more it seems the people involved are less appreciative. I see a LOT of "dang, it's taking you forever to build this rom" or "it's got a bug and sucks, why can't you fix it" and that type of mentality. but on the flip side, some people draw that type of person. I've been using RRE roms for a long time. and while I've seen a few people piss in aruppenthal's post toasties, for the most part, most of the people who use his roms are very appreciative, and supportive.
I know some people won't agree with me, and I'll probably piss off a few people, but when you get this many people in 1 place, you are ALWAYS going to have dipsh!ts and idiots and the like. I mean we're talking about 250k active accounts here. think about a superbowl game.. 30-50k people and there are tons that get arrested, or beaten down cause they're drunk and stupid (or obnoxious) or whatever. I think we're doing exceptionally good here. a TON of people and most of them are nice, supportive and stuff.
Me? I love this board. it's what I consider home. (thanks ryan.)
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I agree ! Even i love this and is my home...true nothing can be done but if people read this thread perhaps they would think twice before flaming or criticizing peoples efforts ! And making fun of them.
schnitzelbrain said:
I agree with u but what did u make so upset my friend. Its true that we have some a..holes in xda. But as jaguar says, u will always have them somewhere.
I still think the raphael area is still in pretty good shape, with helping people and being greatfull to the cooks.
Schnizelbrain
P.S. And if u really whant to thank the chefs/Devs, donate.
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What makes me upset are some of the posts i read by few Bugf**kers !
They insult the ROM the forums the chefs ! And its sad to share space with such jerks !
And
Schnizelbrain I'm a minor i'm just 16 years old... if i had a credit card or i was earning i would hundred pecent donate to these lovely people ....
Gentox said:
I totally agree.
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Glad you agree.
See the poll one person voted saying he doesn't care. He/She is just interested in resources ! These are the ungrateful lot of people which i hate to share space with on the forum....if you use the resources appreciate them thank the people who work their asses of so that we can have cool stuff on our phones ! If not donate just write a thanks message for them aprreciate their work...
But all these people will do is use everything here and then crib that this lacks this and you lack this !
Theses people suck !
A sorry to all the MODS but i felt lke showing a little respect to all the co-members/developers/chefs on XDA and try to educate the flamers and idiots of XDA !
Glad there are still lots of good people around
Thank you all.
Other
I think the board activity is representative of a normal product life cycle.
There was growth and a lot of development as people flocked to the Raphael.
Now, we are in a decline as the next generation of devices are coming out.
Big words , What has to be taken into account is that a lot of the chefs are moving on the newer devices, like Topaz, rhodium and HD2. This is a cycle, this has happened to the Kaiser forums as well but that's still active as well. Now the time has come for fresher chefs to cook their ROMs and grow. Where there is a need there shall be new ROMs. I actually think the kaiser forums are more stable nowadays but I could be wrong.
On a side note I cooked and then gave it a rest because of the the amount of work it worked out to be to make sure new changes wouldn't affect stability. Aside from the work it is to create a kitchen and find the newest\best packages. The testing process it fairly intensive. I don't think any good chef can whip up a ROM from scratch with in less than two days of hard labour, and that's if their experienced.
Appreciation threads are always welcome I think
12
gunshy73 said:
I think the board activity is representative of a normal product life cycle.
There was growth and a lot of development as people flocked to the Raphael.
Now, we are in a decline as the next generation of devices are coming out.
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But that doesn't give anyone a license to insult/disregard anyone's efforts even if they are not as expected.
12aon said:
Big words , What has to be taken into account is that a lot of the chefs are moving on the newer devices, like Topaz, rhodium and HD2. This is a cycle, this has happened to the Kaiser forums as well but that's still active as well. Now the time has come for fresher chefs to cook their ROMs and grow. Where there is a need there shall be new ROMs. I actually think the kaiser forums are more stable nowadays but I could be wrong.
On a side note I cooked and then gave it a rest because of the the amount of work it worked out to be to make sure new changes wouldn't affect stability. Aside from the work it is to create a kitchen and find the newest\best packages. The testing process it fairly intensive. I don't think any good chef can whip up a ROM from scratch with in less than two days of hard labour, and that's if their experienced.
Appreciation threads are always welcome I think
12
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WOW great to get a thumbs up from a MOD ! Sir its true but still old forums or new forums good/bad/old/new-chefs/developers we all need to appreciate each other's efforts and work..
Then only XDA will continue the way it has otherwise it will someday become a paid portal with a limited number of civilized members..
hpe the 300 people who viewed this thread will realise the importance of patience, apreciation, and understanding...
I'm just trying to tell people to be human to others who are helping you as strangers ! [/SIZE]
Anyways keep posting and voting Thanks to all.
"Why is XDA-Raphael Rom Development section ungrateful?"
Unfortunately, nobody will visit this place if was happy with his phone.
So the facts are:
1) Everyone has a hope for better image (software)
2) The hardware has also many disadvantages
Even if the chefs make perfect images, the phone+software will be under the general
expectation of the users.
Personaly, i beleived the advertisements and the reviews of this phone and
i gave 600 euros to buy it. I am cheated
rafailo said:
"Why is XDA-Raphael Rom Development section ungrateful?"
Unfortunately, nobody will visit this place if was happy with his phone.
So the facts are:
1) Everyone has a hope for better image (software)
2) The hardware has also many disadvantages
Even if the chefs make perfect images, the phone+software will be under the general
expectation of the users.
Personaly, i beleived the advertisements and the reviews of this phone and
i gave 600 euros to buy it. I am cheated
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But again that is NO EXCUSE TO BE RUDE T PEOPLE HERE THEY NEVER FORCED YOU TO BUY ANY DEVICE THEY ARE JUST HELPING YOU.
There is no valid reason in the world to be rude to anyone else here !
rafailo said:
this phone and
i gave 600 euros to buy it. I am cheated
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Do you yell at the mechanic who is working on your car just because you bought a lemon? NO.
Do you take it up with the person from which you purchased the care? YES.
You seem to forget that XDA is not responsible for the design and marketing of HTC products. They are simply trying to get the most out of their devices.
If you are so greatly upset by the device, go get an iphone and quit complaining.
I agree with you my friend.
I moved over from KAISER to this one recently. I too have noticed the hostility of the people in this community. Often you read something in this line.....You should have read the back 20 pages before posting your question..........You should search before posting your question......... People should realise that people may not have all the time in the world to read as much as others.........Some people are more computer competent than others...........We have different abilities. We should all try and make each other valued.
Thank you all who contribute daily to make this community a pleasant place to be.
Please do not let the flame dies.
Great To get some support !
noonereallycares said:
Do you yell at the mechanic who is working on your car just because you bought a lemon? NO.
Do you take it up with the person from which you purchased the care? YES.
You seem to forget that XDA is not responsible for the design and marketing of HTC products. They are simply trying to get the most out of their devices.
If you are so greatly upset by the device, go get an iphone and quit complaining.
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These kind of people won't even be happy with the best phone in the world forget the iphone or anything....! Thank you for the support ! These type of people have to understand That Its not a developers/chefs fault that the App is not working ! He/She are trying their best to make it work ! But still they want everything to work fine. !
hummy15 said:
I moved over from KAISER to this one recently. I too have noticed the hostility of the people in this community. Often you read something in this line.....You should have read the back 20 pages before posting your question..........You should search before posting your question......... People should realise that people may not have all the time in the world to read as much as others.........Some people are more computer competent than others...........We have different abilities. We should all try and make each other valued.
Thank you all who contribute daily to make this community a pleasant place to be.
Please do not let the flame dies.
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Thanks a lot buddy ! I'm glas 65% of you agree with me and maybe the 11% somewhere inside their heart do agree...but the other 24% are the people who i hope will learn something and hopefully appreciate the efforts work and dedication of the developers/chefs here.
But the people who Say that they don't care and just want resources are the ones who should be ashamed of themselves they are very ungrateful....
I hope that the 715 odd people who have read some of this thread realised something if not exactly what i wanted them to realise and hopefully will be better next time they post on any Forum.
Thank you all.
XDA Forever !
Keep Voting ! we need to improve the "Sour Grapes" At XDA.
having problems with your glasses?
Please write in the common text size. Thx
faeArai said:
having problems with your glasses?
Please write in the common text size. Thx
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My thoughts exactly. I find this poster's posts annoying because of that.
The site is as it has been in the lifelines of devices. New devices come out, and people move on to the next best thing. I think it is rare that there is griping - though it happens everywhere. The OP might be misinterpreting excitement to see new things in new builds for griping.
faeArai said:
having problems with your glasses?
Please write in the common text size. Thx
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Done that I didn't realise it would irritate some people. I just wanted to hilight the text.
Bimboy said:
My thoughts exactly. I find this poster's posts annoying because of that.
The site is as it has been in the lifelines of devices. New devices come out, and people move on to the next best thing. I think it is rare that there is griping - though it happens everywhere. The OP might be misinterpreting excitement to see new things in new builds for griping.
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Ahh ! What exactly do you mean ? I'm dumb could yo please explain in simple terms in straight forward language Without going around in circles....
Thank you
madnish30 said:
Ahh ! What exactly do you mean ? I'm dumb could yo please explain in simple terms in straight forward language Without going around in circles....
Thank you
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I mean that most people are passionate here about seeing what's next, and what is tweaked on new builds. I flash multiple times a week still, and love to see what I will find on a new build.
I check here multiple times a day for new things to appear. I can see people getting vocal about wanting to see new cool things. "Where's build 23085!!!" is what I am thinking, but not to piss anybody off or push people. Rather,to want to simply get my hands on it to play.
Also, complainers complain. 99.99% of people are fine with things, but the couple of schmucks complaining may make it appear that most people are ungrateful.
Bimboy said:
I mean that most people are passionate here about seeing what's next, and what is tweaked on new builds. I flash multiple times a week still, and love to see what I will find on a new build.
I check here multiple times a day for new things to appear. I can see people getting vocal about wanting to see new cool things. "Where's build 23085!!!" is what I am thinking, but not to piss anybody off or push people. Rather,to want to simply get my hands on it to play.
Also, complainers complain. 99.99% of people are fine with things, but the couple of schmucks complaining may make it appear that most people are ungrateful.
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Ah ! I see.
Sir i agree with you mostly on that.
Indeed newer ROMs and latest developments excite most of the people on this community, But I feel most of those people who download these ROMs/Programs/Developments and are so called "Flash-junkies" are taking things for granted as in i mean if they see a build 23081 they will try it maybe say its good, but it lacks this this and this... And then after a little while say please do this is 23085 please do this and this this are taking the fact for granted that the chef for sure will write a 23085 build without appreciating the effort he put in the 23081 build
In simple terms i mean is that they JUST demand with little or no apprecition of any sorts (i'm not saying that nobody appreciated anybody i'm saying this trend has crept in ....and there are a bunch of such people---> like the 4 people who said "they don't care about appreciation, they just want appreciation ! " that in my view is pretty ridiculous and then the Chefs should sell their ROMs rather than make it availible for anyone and everyone !
Anyways thats my way of showing appreciation and respect.
Maybe this will improve some people NOT that i'm trying to be a "Gandhi" and bring about a revolution at XDA. All I'm doing is just giving a matter a thought which might change the views of others.
Again i repeat NOT to offend/hurt anyone.
If you don't agree with me its absolutely ok.
Thank you all. Keep voting and posting your opinions.
Bimboy said:
I mean that most people are passionate here about seeing what's next, and what is tweaked on new builds. I flash multiple times a week still, and love to see what I will find on a new build.
I check here multiple times a day for new things to appear. I can see people getting vocal about wanting to see new cool things. "Where's build 23085!!!" is what I am thinking, but not to piss anybody off or push people. Rather,to want to simply get my hands on it to play.
Also, complainers complain. 99.99% of people are fine with things, but the couple of schmucks complaining may make it appear that most people are ungrateful.
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Amen to that! That's exactly my opinion.
faeArai said:
Amen to that! That's exactly my opinion.
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I agree but 99.9% is according to me increasing at a rapid rate.
Once a phone is opened up how long does it typically take before we see custom roms like CM7?
Sent from my MB860 using XDA Premium App
Every phone has it's own dev. Who knows. It happens if or when it happens.
Is it possible to get an official CM7 and not just a port?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmvCpR45LKA
now
THERE IS NO ETA. IT WILL BE DONE WHENEVER IT IS READY
If you want it quicker do it yourself and see how its done
(caps is cruise control for cool )
I think Devs are working hard on that.
tjjensen23 said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmvCpR45LKA
now
THERE IS NO ETA. IT WILL BE DONE WHENEVER IT IS READY
If you want it quicker do it yourself and see how its done
(caps is cruise control for cool )
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Off topic: That was the coolest video ever.
On topic I'm betting we will see some CM7 roms (very buggy ones) within the next couple weeks.
I was just over at their forums. I see an old post that was revived asking for an atrix version, but no other threads. so who knows...
Also when it is done on the At&t atrix, will international users be able to flash it when our bootloader is unlocked or will we have to wait for another port?
There's already a Tegra phone out in the wild running CM7.. oh wait i have one sitting right next to my Atrix. That should make it a decent bit easier to get CM7 working on the Atrix.
This thread should be deleted - the cardinal rule of CM is... do NOT ask for etas!!!!!!!!!! It will be ready whenever its ready...
Devs are working hard on that.
I believe these kinds of threads are VERY necessary...it reminds the devs that we are still wanting CM7...if nobody wants it nobody would post...so this is a way to push the devs....supply and demand =)
I'm not trying to step on anyone's foot, but i just don't understand why u guys get mad simply cuz a guy is asking for an ETA, you never know, maybe one of us may be almost done porting CM7...
Mafisometal said:
I believe these kinds of threads are VERY necessary...it reminds the devs that we are still wanting CM7...if nobody wants it nobody would post...so this is a way to push the devs....supply and demand =)
I'm not trying to step on anyone's foot, but i just don't understand why u guys get mad simply cuz a guy is asking for an ETA, you never know, maybe one of us may be almost done porting CM7...
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So you mean.. you like having a waiter drop by your table every 5mins to see if you are done with your meal because there is a queue forming outside the restaurant? Because what you're saying is basically the same thing.
Devs are doing this on their free time. They are not obligated to do so and even less so to tell whiny little brats when they will be done with it.
IF they're done with it. THEN they're done with it. All this asking for eta will just piss them off and waste valuable time that could have been spent dev-ing instead of replying dumb posts.
lunzi88 said:
So you mean.. you like having a waiter drop by your table every 5mins to see if you are done with your meal because there is a queue forming outside the restaurant? Because what you're saying is basically the same thing.
Devs are doing this on their free time. They are not obligated to do so and even less so to tell whiny little brats when they will be done with it.
IF they're done with it. THEN they're done with it. All this asking for eta will just piss them off and waste valuable time that could have been spent dev-ing instead of replying dumb posts.
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The devs, much like yourself, are in no way forced to read this kind of thread if it bothers them so much.
_kansei_ said:
The devs, much like yourself, are in no way forced to read this kind of thread if it bothers them so much.
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Oh not at all. Somebody has to do the grunt work right?
lunzi88 said:
So you mean.. you like having a waiter drop by your table every 5mins to see if you are done with your meal because there is a queue forming outside the restaurant? Because what you're saying is basically the same thing.
Devs are doing this on their free time. They are not obligated to do so and even less so to tell whiny little brats when they will be done with it.
IF they're done with it. THEN they're done with it. All this asking for eta will just piss them off and waste valuable time that could have been spent dev-ing instead of replying dumb posts.
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Wouldn't it be MORE of a waste of time complaining instead of using that time developing? If people are asking for an ETA that means THEIR INTERESTED...if not, then it would be a big waste of time for you and many other developers investing time and money on something people do not want.
I'm a game developer and i go through the same issues as many developers have here. I don't complain from "potential" customers asking for an ETA...it's a little rude even though asking consistently for an ETA is even ruder. Remember those guys asking for an ETA may be donating money to the developer that completes the Rom, so why shun away the people that ultimately may pay for your living.
I'm pretty sure some and possibly most developers here have aspirations to do this sort of thing as a living; and if so, learn to deal with and grow up, you'll be asked for an ETA numerous times in the business world.
your analogy makes no sense to the topic. If i were you i would sit and think a little before saying the first thought that comes to mind.
Mafisometal said:
Wouldn't it be MORE of a waste of time complaining instead of using that time developing? If people are asking for an ETA that means THEIR INTERESTED...if not, then it would be a big waste of time for you and many other developers investing time and money on something people do not want.
I'm a game developer and i go through the same issues as many developers have here. I don't complain from "potential" customers asking for an ETA...it's a little rude even though asking consistently for an ETA is even ruder. Remember those guys asking for an ETA may be donating money to the developer that completes the Rom, so why shun away the people that ultimately may pay for your living.
I'm pretty sure some and possibly most developers here have aspirations to do this sort of thing as a living; and if so, learn to deal with and grow up, you'll be asked for an ETA numerous times in the business world.
your analogy makes no sense to the topic. If i were you i would sit and think a little before saying the first thought that comes to mind.
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I don't think majority of the devs here are doing this for a living, more for interest. I personally don't do any dev-ing so I'm not even sure if I'm right to say this but as a game developer, you yourself have admitted that it rude of people to consistently asking for eta.
But if I were doing this for my personal interest. It won't really matter if nobody wants my work. Because I would be doing it because I wanted to, not because I'm hoping to earn a living from this. I would be pretty god damn pissed every time people were to ask for etas especially if I didn't owe them anything.
Rather then to ask the devs to grow up and "deal" with it. Why not ask those people to simply sit tight and wait?
The analogy is apt, you just probably need a few more cycles to process it.
You mentioned that it is good of people to create these threads so that devs will know that there are still interest in porting over CM7. So similarly, would it be good if someone were to come over to your table every 5mins to ask if you are done with your meal because there are people queuing outside? Think it through. 1) People wants cm7 so they keep creating eta request threads. 2)people are queuing outside the restaurant so the waiter keeps coming over to see if you're done.
That analogy wasn't correct at all.
You've said yourself, they don't cater to us. They do it for fun and because they're interested. I'm a waiter, and it's our job to bother you. We're required to make you as comfy as possible during your dinner or lunch. We're required to get you whatever you need. Within a small amount of time while doing the same for other tables. Even if it doesn't look like you need anything we have to bother the crap out of you. Regardless of queue or not.
Devs are not waiters. They don't have to cater to anyone. But at least the devs will know that we're interested in their work by asking ETA's. I can understand if the whole forum was crying for CM7, but one or two people can't hurt anything, and biting their heads off and throwing bad analogies around won't help anyone.
tjjensen23 said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmvCpR45LKA
now
THERE IS NO ETA. IT WILL BE DONE WHENEVER IT IS READY
If you want it quicker do it yourself and see how its done
(caps is cruise control for cool )
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Click to collapse
Video is hilarious lol
Guys I know I am a newbie on this forum but come on... The OP isn't asking for an actual ETA, hes just asking the community if through past experience anyone has a gauge on how long it takes for a Cm7 port to pop up after a bootloader gets unlocked. How is this not a valid question?
Just like on any forum I am sure it is tiresome for the senior members to see the same questions being rehashed with different variables inserted over and over. At the same time however, his subject made it perfectly clear what he was asking for, why bother to even open this thread if you don't want to constructively answer his question?
All of you were new to the scene at one time try to remember that.
In my case I have been wondering the same thing, while I have spent plenty of time programming in .net languages I haven't done any work like this before so I am struggling to wrap my head around the steps needed to port a rom over. (might just dive in myself and take a look though!)
Anyhow guys my intention is not to offend anyone just remind them that we are all not of the same tenure in this android / dev world.
Hello All,
In recent events we saw our primary kernel developer completely drop his project and leave. This is a sad thing, but it could have been prevented on both sides. It seems that there has lately been a huge misunderstanding of what working with a community means and what open source means, it is tearing the community as a whole apart.
I. USERS/TESTERS: (this is the part most of us know about)
This can roughly refer to anyone that is not a developer or submitting code, but it can also refer to developers using ROMs or Kernels produced by other developers. Anyone in this position needs to realize that almost ALL Roms/Kernels/Themes are experimental even if considered "stable". There is a reason that on both Rootzwiki and XDA it is common to see developers stating they are not responsible for any damage done to your device or your data.
Device problems will differ from one device to another due to security implementations or new code/hardware or even something else. It needs to be understood that a kernel/Rom release that has bugs may NOT be due to code written by the dev, but by an inherent flaw in the hardware OR the stock code.
What does this mean to you?
Well, in order to function as effectively as possible a general guideline should be followed.
Be Tactful - Lets face it, there are going to be issues with ROMs and Kernels. There will never be a truly 'stable' release. Try to report issues in a polite and friendly manner. If you disagree with a developer, you can let them know, just be sure to be as tactful as possible, also make sure to provide adequate reports and detail.
Detail, Detail, Detail - Many of the newer folks don't know how to access logfiles, but this shouldn't stop you from being detailed. When an issue is come across, make sure to include as much detail as possible. For clarification, ANYTHING that is changed from stock configuration should be considered. For kernels, it is good to include any and all adjustments you have made. If a log can be pulled, DO IT, it won't hurt and the developer has an easier time figuring it all out.
Try to learn - The development community is a big place. By learning, you verify that you can help other newbies down the line, and that you provide more assistance to developers.
II. Developers: (the part less of us know about)
Ah, developers, without all of you, we wouldn't exist. Someone needs to do the work, and you provide the dedication and time. Most of us can't thank you enough. However, it seems that recently a lot of the developers are developing for the wrong reasons and are doing things against the very ideals we all stand for.
When developing with a community, ALL developers sign a non-verbal social contract. This contract includes many things.
- You are going to deal with some harassment (can be mitigated by mods) - Some people have bad days, others are asshats.
- Younger members will take you for granted
- Younger members will have difficulty providing detail
- The community will expect support for your product(s)
- Other developers (mostly new developers) will not credit you for your work occasionally (can be mitigated by mods)
All these things and more should be expected when working with a community. As a developer, you need to accept ALL of these things in order to contribute to making the community a healthy place.
Eventually, a developer must leave a device and move forward for WHATEVER reason they choose. This is inevitable, but in order to provide a healthy development cycle a developer should ALWAYS provide their source code for a time after development has stopped. This way projects can live on with other developers or be forked entirely.
MY COMMENTS ON TODAY:
DSB9938 - You are a fantastic developer and I urge you not to leave. I do believe you are misguided in pulling all your code and preventing others from forking or continuing your work. It goes against all that open source is about. You signed the social contract and you couldn't handle the terms, you wronged the community by breaking the trust you had developed.
Dr_Drache - Seriously? Kicking me from the AndIRC #droid-dna chat because you don't agree with what I say here? Did I step on your ego much? Stopping your s-off development because of all of this as well? You are whats wrong with the developers side of the community. God forbid someone disagree's with you, you either kick them or pull your project entirely. Go develop for Microsoft or some other proprietary company. You have forgotten about what the community really means and what open source is about.
Everyone else - We can pull through this. I have already started researching to pick up kernel development. It will be slow since DSB refuses to assist, but it can certainly be done.
Mods - We can't afford to lose more developers. We have to stop the harassment.
I agree with your post except the parts directed to DSB and Drache because it is a continuation of the feud. Let's just wipe the slate clean and follow the other parts of your comments because they are good guidelines on how to interact with each other.
th3raid0r said:
Hello All,
In recent events we saw our primary kernel developer completely drop his project and leave. This is a sad thing, but it could have been prevented on both sides. It seems that there has lately been a huge misunderstanding of what working with a community means and what open source means, it is tearing the community as a whole apart.
I. USERS/TESTERS: (this is the part most of us know about)
This can roughly refer to anyone that is not a developer or submitting code, but it can also refer to developers using ROMs or Kernels produced by other developers. Anyone in this position needs to realize that almost ALL Roms/Kernels/Themes are experimental even if considered "stable". There is a reason that on both Rootzwiki and XDA it is common to see developers stating they are not responsible for any damage done to your device or your data.
Device problems will differ from one device to another due to security implementations or new code/hardware or even something else. It needs to be understood that a kernel/Rom release that has bugs may NOT be due to code written by the dev, but by an inherent flaw in the hardware OR the stock code.
What does this mean to you?
Well, in order to function as effectively as possible a general guideline should be followed.
Be Tactful - Lets face it, there are going to be issues with ROMs and Kernels. There will never be a truly 'stable' release. Try to report issues in a polite and friendly manner. If you disagree with a developer, you can let them know, just be sure to be as tactful as possible, also make sure to provide adequate reports and detail.
Detail, Detail, Detail - Many of the newer folks don't know how to access logfiles, but this shouldn't stop you from being detailed. When an issue is come across, make sure to include as much detail as possible. For clarification, ANYTHING that is changed from stock configuration should be considered. For kernels, it is good to include any and all adjustments you have made. If a log can be pulled, DO IT, it won't hurt and the developer has an easier time figuring it all out.
Try to learn - The development community is a big place. By learning, you verify that you can help other newbies down the line, and that you provide more assistance to developers.
II. Developers: (the part less of us know about)
Ah, developers, without all of you, we wouldn't exist. Someone needs to do the work, and you provide the dedication and time. Most of us can't thank you enough. However, it seems that recently a lot of the developers are developing for the wrong reasons and are doing things against the very ideals we all stand for.
When developing with a community, ALL developers sign a non-verbal social contract. This contract includes many things.
- You are going to deal with some harassment (can be mitigated by mods) - Some people have bad days, others are asshats.
- Younger members will take you for granted
- Younger members will have difficulty providing detail
- The community will expect support for your product(s)
- Other developers (mostly new developers) will not credit you for your work occasionally (can be mitigated by mods)
All these things and more should be expected when working with a community. As a developer, you need to accept ALL of these things in order to contribute to making the community a healthy place.
Eventually, a developer must leave a device and move forward for WHATEVER reason they choose. This is inevitable, but in order to provide a healthy development cycle a developer should ALWAYS provide their source code for a time after development has stopped. This way projects can live on with other developers or be forked entirely.
MY COMMENTS ON TODAY:
DSB9938 - You are a fantastic developer and I urge you not to leave. I do believe you are misguided in pulling all your code and preventing others from forking or continuing your work. It goes against all that open source is about. You signed the social contract and you couldn't handle the terms, you wronged the community by breaking the trust you had developed. If you do not return, I can only hope that other, BETTER developers (in skill and ideology) fill your shoes.
Dr_Drache - Seriously? Kicking me from the AndIRC #droid-dna chat because you don't agree with what I say here? Did I step on your ego much? Stopping your s-off development because of all of this as well? You are whats wrong with the developers side of the community. God forbid someone disagree's with you, you either kick them or pull your project entirely. Go develop for Microsoft or some other proprietary company. You have forgotten about what the community really means and what open source is about.
Everyone else - We can pull through this. I have already started researching to pick up kernel development. It will be slow since DSB refuses to assist, but it can certainly be done.
Mods - We can't afford to lose more developers. We have to stop the harassment.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you, "my friend" need to learn when to stop running your mouth. you spent nearly an hour pretending to care, yet saying dsb/devs should give more back, because we have a contract with the community.
you never stepped on my ego, you were banned for being a luke. you want to quote GPL to the devs and expect us to fall down for you.
I agree with your post except the parts directed to DSB and Drache because it is a continuation of the feud. Let's just wipe the slate clean and follow the other parts of your comments because they are good guidelines on how to interact with each other.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I do need to get access back to the #Droid-DNA chat, otherwise it is VERY difficult to even begin development.
dr_drache said:
you, "my friend" need to learn when to stop running your mouth. you spent nearly an hour pretending to care, yet saying dsb/devs should give more back, because we have a contract with the community.
you never stepped on my ego, you were banned for being a luke. you want to quote GPL to the devs and expect us to fall down for you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, that is your assumption. I never even once demanded for more. I feel that the actions that have been taken are one of the sloppiest examples of open source development. I am trying to be a reasonable voice. I am trying to keep development going despite our recent setbacks.
I think that at the very least, devs should provide the sources so that development may continue after they decide to leave. Otherwise we loose too much progress.
th3raid0r said:
When developing with a community, ALL developers sign a non-verbal social contract. This contract includes many things.
- You are going to deal with some harassment (can be mitigated by mods) - Some people have bad days, others are asshats.
- Younger members will take you for granted
- Younger members will have difficulty providing detail
- The community will expect support for your product(s)
- Other developers (mostly new developers) will not credit you for your work occasionally (can be mitigated by mods)
All these things and more should be expected when working with a community. As a developer, you need to accept ALL of these things in order to contribute to making the community a healthy place.
Eventually, a developer must leave a device and move forward for WHATEVER reason they choose. This is inevitable, but in order to provide a healthy development cycle a developer should ALWAYS provide their source code for a time after development has stopped. This way projects can live on with other developers or be forked entirely.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, no no no no no no. No social contract, this is an at will thing, that most of us are not paid for. Some of us do it for a living, and also do it here for fun. We do this for FUN. We do this for our benefit (having fun). I can not be anymore honest, anything I do here, I do for my benefit (Brain exercise and fun). I enjoy Android. The day I no longer enjoy it, I will either leave for good, or take a break like I have in the past. We can leave the playground and go home at any time. In fact I encourage developers to do this from time to time, It helped me greatly.
We do get some *sshat harassment, no we don't have to deal with it. We can ignore it, take it to a mod, or take our cake and go home. I tend to confront it, bad habit of mine
Younger members will take us for granted, some times you have to turn the power off to wake them up, or let them sit a minute waiting for you to release something they want.
Support should be appreciated, but not expected. We have families, jobs, and some of use have a life outside of Android(not saying I do ).
Most people who steal work, are not developers. They are general *sshats, that is all.
th3raid0r said:
MY COMMENTS ON TODAY:
DSB9938 - You are a fantastic developer and I urge you not to leave. I do believe you are misguided in pulling all your code and preventing others from forking or continuing your work. It goes against all that open source is about. You signed the social contract and you couldn't handle the terms, you wronged the community by breaking the trust you had developed. If you do not return, I can only hope that other, BETTER developers (in skill and ideology) fill your shoes.
Dr_Drache - Seriously? Kicking me from the AndIRC #droid-dna chat because you don't agree with what I say here? Did I step on your ego much? Stopping your s-off development because of all of this as well? You are whats wrong with the developers side of the community. God forbid someone disagree's with you, you either kick them or pull your project entirely. Go develop for Microsoft or some other proprietary company. You have forgotten about what the community really means and what open source is about.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
RE: DSB9939: Sorry but take your social contract somewhere else, it doesn't even make sense. He didn't sign, didn't verbally agree, wasn't paid, rarely got a pat on the back. This is the guy who is the reason you all have root/unlock, and you are breaking his balls. Yeah no Beaups and I are not the reason, we were just the way to a means.
RE: Dr_Drache: AndIRC is not part of XDA, we are separate and really what goes on there doesn't belong here. If you have an issue, take it to me, Zifnab, TheFuzz4 or DougPiston. It is a PRIVATE server, and people are welcome at operator discretion. We are allowed to limit it to like minded people, or even to just be grumpy and randomly remove people if we wish (we don't normally). If you want to talk about it, you know where it is, and how to get ahold of me.
Dude, we don't another thread about this lol. I'm not here to harp on this fact, but I'm glad I dumped my DNA while I still had the chance. For some extremely odd reason, people don't know how to act in HTC threads. I definitely don't miss all of this drama from when I had my Rezound.
Sent from my SCH-I605 using xda premium
th3raid0r said:
I do need to get access back to the #Droid-DNA chat, otherwise it is VERY difficult to even begin development.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Requesting the community to be civil and then throwing in some parting shots is not ideal. I don't know what went down with you guys over there but maybe you can speak with the powers that be and work out an amicable solution.
jcase said:
No, no no no no no no. No social contract, this is an at will thing, that most of us are not paid for. Some of us do it for a living, and also do it here for fun. We do this for FUN. We do this for our benefit (having fun). I can not be anymore honest, anything I do here, I do for my benefit (Brain exercise and fun). I enjoy Android. The day I no longer enjoy it, I will either leave for good, or take a break like I have in the past. We can leave the playground and go home at any time. In fact I encourage developers to do this from time to time, It helped me greatly.
We do get some *sshat harassment, no we don't have to deal with it. We can ignore it, take it to a mod, or take our cake and go home. I tend to confront it, bad habit of mine
Younger members will take us for granted, some times you have to turn the power off to wake them up, or let them sit a minute waiting for you to release something they want.
Support should be appreciated, but not expected. We have families, jobs, and some of use have a life outside of Android(not saying I do ).
Most people who steal work, are not developers. They are general *sshats, that is all.
RE: DSB9939: Sorry but take your social contract somewhere else, it doesn't even make sense. He didn't sign, didn't verbally agree, wasn't paid, rarely got a pat on the back. This is the guy who is the reason you all have root/unlock, and you are breaking his balls. Yeah no Beaups and I are not the reason, we were just the way to a means.
RE: Dr_Drache: AndIRC is not part of XDA, we are separate and really what goes on there doesn't belong here. If you have an issue, take it to me, Zifnab, TheFuzz4 or DougPiston. It is a PRIVATE server, and people are welcome at operator discretion. We are allowed to limit it to like minded people, or even to just be grumpy and randomly remove people if we wish (we don't normally). If you want to talk about it, you know where it is, and how to get ahold of me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A social non-verbal contract is never an official thing.
In a most basic form it is the trade of safety/stability for a service when it comes to political science. They apply everywhere.
The reason we are no longer roaming nomads is due to social contracts.
I am not saying that this social contract is why you guys develop. It is the generalized community expectations. They are going to vary from member to member as well.
I understand Support is not expected, on your end, however it is essential to a successful project and furthermore it is essential to reputation. Reputation garners donations and therefore some developers incomes.
Most of my other points also follow this same logic.
A healthy community flourishes when these invisible expectations are met. Look at the GNex development for example and take note at what the successful projects are and how they got there.
I understand that DSB wasn't well appreciated. But the community opinion doesn't get better if he leaves in this way, I would argue that he broke a lot of trust that the community had in him. He could have still taken a break, but there are much more elegant ways to do so.
Sigh.
You want a contract? What does the guy on the other end get out of the contract?
I make the things I make so that I can run my phone how I want to run it. That's the only reason. I do not make them for you, or to look like some smart guy, or for my ego. I am the first to admit that I don't know a damned thing about coding. What I make takes hard hours of trial and error. Basically pounding on things till I slowly figure out how they work and bend them to do what I want.
And I do it for days on end. Till it works well enough for me to run on my phone. And I AM PICKY. I want it to be perfect. However, I also share what I make. I share it so that others who want to have their phone run the way I do, don't have to work so hard to get there.
Now comes the rub. There are billions of people in the world. And I bet if you put every phone next to every other phone, you would still not find two setup and/or used the same way. Because of that, I cannot test every possibility. When people come to me with something that doesn't work, do I just say no? Of course not. I made it. I feel responsible for it working correctly.
Now, having determined that I am not a coder, what do I do? First I go ask other people who are much smarter than I am. People like jcase, beaups, imoseyon, show-p1984. These are the real coders/android hackers in the world. They look at the code and actually know what it's doing. They don't have to try to arm wrestle with it to figure out what's wrong.
If that doesn't work, I beat on it. I look at logs. When you post those logs in my threads, there's a bunch of people who read them, not just me. And if I can figure it out, with what help is available, I fix it. If not, I say so. Half the time, what's in those logs is of no help, a quarter of the time, it's in there what happened, but it wasn't related. And lets not forget those logs are usually thousands of lines to read through.
Do I claim to be perfect? Hell no. But I do my best. And that's the very limit of what anybody else on the site has any particular right to ask me for. Nothing more. I try to let slide all of the little digs that people use when things don't work right. But over time it gets to you, ya know? And you guys only see the public stuff, in the threads. You don't see the PMs. And see the people who come online to the chat. You have no clue.
Now top that off with people twisting my words to insult me. I basically said that there are other reasons you can have problems with your phone. I did not say it wasn't my kernel, I said it wasn't in the logs. And I have this guy come in and say yeah, mine runs fine on stock. Seems our phones are only crap on your kernel. Now how did you honestly expect me to react?
I have asked this guy more than once to not run my kernel because he has these outbreaks. This was not the first one. And if you go look through his previous postings, you can see his doesn't only disrespect me, he has outright disrespected MODs as well. This makes me wonder why he was still around to bother me in the first place. But that's beside the point.
Now anybody who thinks I'm curt with others, go read the stuff I've had to put up with and see how long you can take it. I have no problems with people posting when they have an issue. And I can tell you right here and right now, my stuff isn't perfect. But when I tell you I can't find it, or fix it, that doesn't give you the right to flip out and go off on me. That means you go back a version and wait till I make a new one, or you go run something else. I even made a simple stock one for those with issues to run so they could have system write if they had issues.
I DO NOT MAKE ANYBODY RUN MY STUFF.
Now, having said all of that. Put yourself in my shoes and see how happy you would be.
D
.
orangechoochoo said:
Requesting the community to be civil and then throwing in some parting shots is not ideal.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, hindsight is 20/20.
It's early in the morning but after reading these threads that big bottle of Grey Goose is calling.
dsb9938 said:
You want a contract? What does the guy on the other end get out of the contract?
I make the things I make so that I can run my phone how I want to run it. That's the only reason. I do not make them for you, or to look like some smart guy, or for my ego. I am the first to admit that I don't know a damned thing about coding. What I make takes hard hours of trial and error. Basically pounding on things till I slowly figure out how they work and bend them to do what I want.
And I do it for days on end. Till it works well enough for me to run on my phone. And I AM PICKY. I want it to be perfect. However, I also share what I make. I share it so that others who want to have their phone run the way I do, don't have to work so hard to get there.
Now comes the rub. There are billions of people in the world. And I bet if you put every phone next to every other phone, you would still not find two setup and/or used the same way. Because of that, I cannot test every possibility. When people come to me with something that doesn't work, do I just say no? Of course not. I made it. I feel responsible for it working correctly.
Now, having determined that I am not a coder, what do I do? First I go ask other people who are much smarter than I am. People like jcase, beaups, imoseyon, show-p1984. These are the real coders/android hackers in the world. They look at the code and actually know what it's doing. They don't have to try to arm wrestle with it to figure out what's wrong.
If that doesn't work, I beat on it. I look at logs. When you post those logs in my threads, there's a bunch of people who read them, not just me. And if I can figure it out, with what help is available, I fix it. If not, I say so. Half the time, what's in those logs is of no help, a quarter of the time, it's in there what happened, but it wasn't related. And lets not forget those logs are usually thousands of lines to read through.
Do I claim to be perfect? Hell no. But I do my best. And that's the very limit of what anybody else on the site has any particular right to ask me for. Nothing more. I try to let slide all of the little digs that people use when things don't work right. But over time it gets to you, ya know? And you guys only see the public stuff, in the threads. You don't see the PMs. And see the people who come online to the chat. You have no clue.
Now top that off with people twisting my words to insult me. I basically said that there are other reasons you can have problems with your phone. I did not say it wasn't my kernel, I said it wasn't in the logs. And I have this guy come in and say yeah, mine runs fine on stock. Seems our phones are only crap on your kernel. Now how did you honestly expect me to react?
I have asked this guy more than once to not run my kernel because he has these outbreaks. This was not the first one. And if you go look through his previous postings, you can see his doesn't only disrespect me, he has outright disrespected MODs as well. This makes me wonder why he was still around to bother me in the first place. But that's beside the point.
Now anybody who thinks I'm curt with others, go read the stuff I've had to put up with and see how long you can take it. I have no problems with people posting when they have an issue. And I can tell you right here and right now, my stuff isn't perfect. But when I tell you I can't find it, or fix it, that doesn't give you the right to flip out and go off on me. That means you go back a version and wait till I make a new one, or you go run something else. I even made a simple stock one for those with issues to run so they could have system write if they had issues.
I DO NOT MAKE ANYBODY RUN MY STUFF.
Now, having said all of that. Put yourself in my shoes and see how happy you would be.
D
.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey, I totally understand all of that.
I have made some tweaks myself, but I don't publish them because I know they don't have much application outside of myself.
I do know where you are at, I work at a large legal software company as a QA Analyst. I KNOW the daily grind on this.
The harrasment won't always go away. Hell, i get it here in a large company. It can be mitigated by a few things. For example you can use a smaller community.
You don't have to deal with these things at all, but if you leave on such bad terms without a way for someone to pick up where you left off, it doesn't leave a good impression on the rest of the community.
The fact that you don't know code makes this all the more impressive. You are a fantastic problem solver, it shows, maybe we can find some way to lessen the blow for you and yet continue public development?
th3raid0r said:
A social non-verbal contract is never an official thing.
In a most basic form it is the trade of safety/stability for a service when it comes to political science. They apply everywhere.
The reason we are no longer roaming nomads is due to social contracts.
I am not saying that this social contract is why you guys develop. It is the generalized community expectations. They are going to vary from member to member as well.
I understand Support is not expected, on your end, however it is essential to a successful project and furthermore it is essential to reputation. Reputation garners donations and therefore some developers incomes.
Most of my other points also follow this same logic.
A healthy community flourishes when these invisible expectations are met. Look at the GNex development for example and take note at what the successful projects are and how they got there.
I understand that DSB wasn't well appreciated. But the community opinion doesn't get better if he leaves in this way, I would argue that he broke a lot of trust that the community had in him. He could have still taken a break, but there are much more elegant ways to do so.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You keep saying signed social contract. It is non-sense man. What you mean is expectations from non involved individuals.
Most developers get jack for donations, only people who get tons are either A) the attention begging people who release 100000 roms for 1000 devices that are nothing special, or B) ones who release something special, and then the donation spree is short and sweet. We don't do it for donations. DSB is not making much from donations on this device, he does it strictly for fun and people are making it NOT fun for him.
I fell into B) with the DNA. I will say I made ~$800 from donations on the DNA unlock, it is not the rule but an exception. I bought two used phones really cheap to develop on ($200 and $140, gave the $200 one away to another developer for free after I was done. $140 one I will give away as well at some point.), pizza dinner for my kids ($35, my personal reward), sent some for another developer (DSB, for his work and risks) and donated the rest to various charities. This is NOT A normal amount of donations. Don't fool yourself thinking most developers are making an income of any kind doing this.
GNex community flourished due to paid support from Google (AOSP), and open documentation. Two things we did not have.
*PS*
If you haven't been in our shoes, you shouldn't pretend to know, and you shouldn't complain about us.
solutions anyone?
dsb, jcase I have to side with you guys entirely. I love your work and I appreciate it completely. I am grateful for you guys, were it not for you guys and other people like you I would not get to 'OCD' on my droid all hours of the night like I do. I have learned much. I am a machinist in a shipyard, I can understand fine tuning and perfection in your work.
Unfortunately most of today's societal behaviors even in grown adults are dysfunctional at best. I have been on the internet since it's inception to the public eye and all I can say is that arguing and bickering that happens on the internet is absolutely ridiculous. I feel bad for you guys and embarrassed for the "others."
I have to agree with what works though. My daughter, when she was young would throw a temper tantrum and slam her bedroom door, so I removed the door.
orangechoochoo said:
Sigh.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1
Sent from my Nexus 7 using xda app-developers app
orangechoochoo said:
It's early in the morning but after reading these threads that big bottle of Grey Goose is calling.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Its almost night here, and Jack Daniels is calling me, all after reading all that posts and some chating on IRC... Never ever see such outcome because of some not polite posts. I have degree in International Relations and first thing i 've learned - don't say what you think, say what you need to say and SMILE )))) We all just people. I got my family. Wife, kids... But i spend time here not only because of kernels, ROMs and all that stuff. But because of great community. It looks like that 1 person can spoil all that great atmosphere.... :silly:
jcase said:
You keep saying signed social contract. It is non-sense man. What you mean is expectations from non involved individuals.
Most developers get jack for donations, only people who get tons are either A) the attention begging people who release 100000 roms for 1000 devices that are nothing special, or B) ones who release something special, and then the donation spree is short and sweet. We don't do it for donations. DSB is not making much from donations on this device, he does it strictly for fun and people are making it NOT fun for him.
I fell into B) with the DNA. I will say I made ~$800 from donations on the DNA unlock, it is not the rule but an exception. I bought two used phones really cheap to develop on ($200 and $140, gave the $200 one away to another developer for free after I was done. $140 one I will give away as well at some point.), pizza dinner for my kids ($35, my personal reward), sent some for another developer (DSB, for his work and risks) and donated the rest to various charities. This is NOT A normal amount of donations. Don't fool yourself thinking most developers are making an income of any kind doing this.
GNex community flourished due to paid support from Google (AOSP), and open documentation. Two things we did not have.
*PS*
If you haven't been in our shoes, you shouldn't pretend to know, and you shouldn't complain about us.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Never said you make a living off the income generated from donations. I know it is mostly small, but the funds do help most people. It is also nice to know that you mean something to a few individuals.
Also, I work at a legal software company as a QA Analyst officially, but I do mostly QA Engineering work for no recognition, no additional pay, and the occasional bit of harassment when someone doesn't understand my methods. I really DO get the environment.
The only thing I am complaining about is devs leaving on such bad terms without a way for the community to recover, that's it.
th3raid0r said:
The only thing I am complaining about is devs leaving on such bad terms without a way for the community to recover, that's it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What makes you think anybody owes "the community" a way to recover?
D
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Howdy folks.
I enjoy being able to help out around here, I really do. But I think it's time for me to take a step back. Being on here shouldn't be stressful; it should be fun. This is my hobby; it's supposed to be fun. But when I go through a lot of trouble to put information in my posts and try to explain things, only to have people ask questions that have been answered over and over again, it gets extremely frustrating. I understand not everyone has the same aptitude for this stuff, but anyone that decides to be here has chosen to learn more about their device. They want to get the most out of it. To do that, will require reading and learning. Searching. Reading more. I just want to encourage everyone that wants to learn to read. And if you don't want to learn - if you just want quick answers to quick problems - then you may be in the wrong place. I think there are other, more "noob-friendly" forums, but this place is where the information gets deep. So while you might not know how to do everything, or understand what all the terms mean, at least give it a shot if you're going to be here. This community is built by people that may have started out knowing nothing (like me), but after years of reading and learning, they find ways to contribute. I hope someday everyone can get to that point. I hope that I've helped some of you get there.
But I am daily inundated with PMs of questions answered in the forum. I am not a shortcut to prevent you from having to search. My time is valuable, just like everyone else's. Use the forum. That's what it's here for. It's how I learned.
I'll probably still pop in here and there, but I'm going to try to be around less. I just see a lot of arbitrary information being spoken, information incorrect and not fact-based, and it frustrates me. So, maybe once my frustration dies down, I'll be more inclined to contribute more, but right now, I think it's time for a break.
I want to personally thank you for all that you have done for the community, and me.
Thanks CT.
Thanks for all your hard work, Cap. Take a break & get some rest.
Sent from my EVO LTE
FinZ28 said:
Thanks for all your hard work, Cap. Take a break & get some rest.
Sent from my EVO LTE
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+1. Thank you Captain.
Some of us are eternally grateful for your contributions. Thank you sir and enjoy your free time. You've certainly earned it.
EVOlved human
I think that there are enough knowledgeable folks around here to handle things while you are gone. I try to answer the redundant questions, but you're just fast at answering them, too. Enjoy your break.
Suggestion: don't "try" to be around less...just don't.
Internet is serious business. Get well soon.
Sorry to hear Captain. Thanks for all the help over the last few years. You've gotten me out of a few pickles. I hope to see you around these parts again.
Hey Captain- You are one of the many devs I have great admiration and respect for, due to your patience and willingness to help those whom are less informed. It's part of what makes you a good person. Forums are forums. I belong to so many ranging in every subject. There are those whom take shortcuts, and those whom respect the rules and follow them.
From my experience, I can't stay away even when frustrated. A lot of the peeps on the forums I consider friends, or close associates even though I never met them. Those are the peeps keeping me coming back.
So, I encourage you to do what's best for you. But, if you're anything like me, you'll ignore the ignorant, and continue to help, as that's what your gift is. Thank you.
Sent from my EVO using xda app-developers app
No doubt bro, you've been busy, we all appreciate the tremendous amount of hard work and information you've put out there for everyone. Thank cap!
Sent from my EVO using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
Hi, can anyone tell me if Captain Throwback is going to take a step back or not? It may have been posted somewhere, but I don't have time to search.
...ha, just playing. Thanks Captain - I've been on here for a few years, but only started posting recently after I learned more. I highly appreciate your contributions and respect that you need to decompress and relax a bit more from the day to day here..can be quite overwhelming.
thanks for your time and efforts.
And then people wonder why we don't release roms.... :screwy:
Sent from my EVO using xda app-developers app
Thank you Captain for everything you have done for the community. I remember you being the man since the OG Evo days. I know if you post something, it can be trusted. I have learned a lot from your posts, and hope I can one day contribute back. It's a shame your hobby was spoiled for you by spoiled users. Hope to see you back.
Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk
Thanks for everything you've done Captain. I've never had to ask you a question, because you do answer them thoroughly up front. Please know just how much you have helped and how much I've learned from your posts. Take the time you need.
Thanks.
Thank you!
It is sad when something you love becomes a daily function and no longer is a passion. I never post on these threads, but when I see developers like Sin and Captain looking to walk away from their passion due to the frustration from US, so it is time to THINK BEFORE WE POST. We need to take a step back and solve our own issues on the forums. It is all there on the threads, but we chose to take the easy road and ask simple question instead of taking 5 minutes to google key words or read the thread entirely. I have learned so much from Capt. and Sin and many others like them. I see that they both want a break and they very much deserve time away from the critics as well. We do ask the same questions a half a dozen times within a 50 pg. thread. I have played with my phones just to see it tick from the good old Evo Supersonic (god bless my first love that lead me into these forums) and my current love the Evo Jewel. I look back and have loved bricking my phone, so I can dig deep into these forums and fix. It took me 30 hours of my time researching and yes wanting to throw through a window, but I finally fixed and that was an awesome feeling. The nice thing is that I learned from reading forum or from googling. I never will forget how to unbrick a phone or the tools that allowed me get it working once again. Thank you gentlemen for all your hard work. Enjoy your much needed time off JIM
JimmyJimH said:
It is sad when something you love becomes a daily function and no longer is a passion. I never post on these threads, but when I see developers like Sin and Captain looking to walk away from their passion due to the frustration from US, so it is time to THINK BEFORE WE POST. We need to take a step back and solve our own issues on the forums. It is all there on the threads, but we chose to take the easy road and ask simple question instead of taking 5 minutes to google key words or read the thread entirely. I have learned so much from Capt. and Sin and many others like them. I see that they both want a break and they very much deserve time away from the critics as well. We do ask the same questions a half a dozen times within a 50 pg. thread. I have played with my phones just to see it tick from the good old Evo Supersonic (god bless my first love that lead me into these forums) and my current love the Evo Jewel. I look back and have loved bricking my phone, so I can dig deep into these forums and fix. It took me 30 hours of my time researching and yes wanting to throw through a window, but I finally fixed and that was an awesome feeling. The nice thing is that I learned from reading forum or from googling. I never will forget how to unbrick a phone or the tools that allowed me get it working once again. Thank you gentlemen for all your hard work. Enjoy your much needed time off JIM
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I couldn't say it any better. I have been following captain's 4.3 stock thread as well as chubbz 4.3 5.5 thread since day one. I'm relatively new to this and they have explained stuff in ways that I can understand and if I can't I go to google first. I very rarely post a question without doing any searching. These devs work their ass off to provide ways to make our devices better and what they get in return are ungreatful comments or complaints and the same question being asked. Sometimes it looks like the repeated question was literally a copy/paste job. Seriously the devs shouldn't have to hold our hands. Let's be big kids and not frustrate our devs anymore. They don't deserve it. Search before you post please. I don't want to lose the great devs and be stuck with the jewel without the option to make it better.
HTC Jewel
Hboot 2.10 S-off
Android 4.3 Sense 5.5 V3
do you mind if i pm and ask you exactly why? i didnt read the the OP.
ok too soon, too soon. Im just joking and i sincerely thank you for all of your help. i remember rooting my OG evo years ago and my heart was pounding and my hands were sweating. It was so exciting and scary at the same time, and i remember i read a lot of info and never had to post because everything was already there just ready to be read and searched.
Thanks to all the devs.
Been following your wisdom and kindness for almost two years. Thank you for all your time,patients, and devotion to all here.
Sent from my EVO using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
Thank you Captain.
Every device forum here on XDA is full of grievances from developers or faithful patrons about the frequency of redundant questions, stupidity, laziness, etc. It seems like it has always been this way to some extent but may be getting worse lately. Let's face it, early adopters are more likely to be technophiles and take the time to do more research. The older the device gets, the cheaper and more accessible it becomes and customers that just bought the cheapest cool phone they could are going to start popping up. We're fortunate there are still good devs spending time on this device and that HTC even put out a new update this late in the game for the devs to work with.
Developers have various ways of coping with this frustrating behavior but the end result always tends to be isolationism. Doesn't that indicate the system is broken? Shouldn't there be better controls in place to limit this behavior? I think the mods do the best they can with the resources and rules available to them but maybe people like me should relegated to being a fly on the wall only being able to read the discussions between developers. If non-devs are going to be allowed to post, perhaps the number of posts should be limited to a couple per week/month/whatever and increased based on some merit based system. That will confer some value to the posts you make so they aren't wasted on something you could have searched for. It is too easy to just ask the question without searching. Conversely, a more robust DEmerit system could be implemented. If you post a stupid question instead of everyone flaming you, they get to hit a "demerit" button and once you hit a threshold you can't post again for a week/month/whatever. If you flame someone anyways and people think you're too harsh, they get to demerit you. Maybe the devs should have to invite you to be a member in order to gain access to posting privileges. Envision it working like a private torrenting site. You're responsible for the people you invite and if you leech way more than you seed both you and the person that invited you get penalized.
I thought the introduction of the "Original Android Development" forum was going to be limited solely to developers and I think that was the intent but it didn't really work out that way. I think the developers should get to have an adults' table to eat at with the rest of us sitting at the kids' table (and I'm 36) until we're old enough or prove we're mature enough to get invited over. Until then we just have to hope we get to overhear some interesting stories or dirty jokes coming from the other table.
Just my 2 cents.
Thanks Captain and all the other devs for making my devices more interesting.
I'm infinitely sorry if there is a helpful thread that speaks to this, but I cannot seem to find anything of note.
I have an HDX 7" 13.3.2.4_user_3240022120. I have root with Towelroot. I can't seem to find substantive information on disabling OTAs rooted with towelroot. I hear Towelroot disables OTAs. I hear Towelroot does not disable OTAs. There seems to be conflicting info on this subject. Could someone direct me to a thread that answers this question. The internet as a whole and GOOGLE are not really helping either. Maybe I'm just goofy
If it can't be answered somewhere in these forums, I am pretty sure it can't be answered anywhere.
Any guidance appreciated.
Thanks
wow
sqweetel said:
I'm infinitely sorry if there is a helpful thread that speaks to this, but I cannot seem to find anything of note.
I have an HDX 7" 13.3.2.4_user_3240022120. I have root with Towelroot. I can't seem to find substantive information on disabling OTAs rooted with towelroot. I hear Towelroot disables OTAs. I hear Towelroot does not disable OTAs. There seems to be conflicting info on this subject. Could someone direct me to a thread that answers this question. The internet as a whole and GOOGLE are not really helping either. Maybe I'm just goofy
If it can't be answered somewhere in these forums, I am pretty sure it can't be answered anywhere.
Any guidance appreciated.
Thanks
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It's pretty much pick it up and start reading like the thread just below yours on this page was first thread before you started this one. All your information is messed up and it's obvious to me that you didn't even attempt to look here . My advice is to not modify anything into you read this whole forum or near. Everything you ever needed to know about this device is here somewhere already for you to find .http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2553797 http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2786190 and this was on first page of general http://forum.xda-developers.com/kindle-fire-hdx/general/prevent-updates-hdx-8-9-t2824145
Thank you for your help.
jimyv said:
It's pretty much pick it up and start reading like the thread just below yours on this page was first thread before you started this one. All your information is messed up and it's obvious to me that you didn't even attempt to look here . My advice is to not modify anything into you read this whole forum or near. Everything you ever needed to know about this device is here somewhere already for you to find .http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2553797 http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2786190 and this was on first page of general http://forum.xda-developers.com/kindle-fire-hdx/general/prevent-updates-hdx-8-9-t2824145
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Thanks so much. I'm embarrassed. I should have located the info myself. It most definitely is a teachable moment. I am truly heartsick. Your effort in helping me, has claimed precious time you can never get back; time you could have been spending with your family. After writing this thank you note, I will face north and summarily flog myself, with coaxial cable, while rubbing a mixture of salt and isopropyl alcohol, into my wounds. I think we can all agree, the condescension and chastising was appropriate for the crime. It's certainly a powerful teaching tool. I'll be adopting this valuable method, for the sake of my students, at NYU. I realize the world would be a much better place without noobs. We certainly should not be allowed to reproduce. It just weakens the gene pool. Our pesky survival instinct keeps us from an innate and fruitless desire, to be better; to grow as a human being.
A quick thought. Just because something is "obvious" to an individual, it does not necessarily make said observation true.
I appreciate your effort on my behalf. Volunteering to be a surrogate for the missing parts of my brain, is noble. I am painfully aware that you were not required to step in. I know it was an empathetic choice. A decision made out of pity. Your are a good person. Someone, others, should try to emulate. I hope the forthcoming jpgs of my self mutilation will somewhat supplant your annoyance. My wish for you; the memory of this incident will fade quickly. No one likes a terrible recollection lingering in the subconscious, leaving a bad taste on the brain. I only wish that I could do more to show my appreciation. Pressing the "THANKS" button seems little consolation.
Kidding aside, you helped me solve a nagging issue. I am un-sarcastically grateful.
Peace
Wow
sqweetel said:
Thanks so much. I'm embarrassed. I should have located the info myself. It most definitely is a teachable moment. I am truly heartsick. Your effort in helping me, has claimed precious time you can never get back; time you could have been spending with your family. After writing this thank you note, I will face north and summarily flog myself, with coaxial cable, while rubbing a mixture of salt and isopropyl alcohol, into my wounds. I think we can all agree, the condescension and chastising was appropriate for the crime. It's certainly a powerful teaching tool. I'll be adopting this valuable method, for the sake of my students, at NYU. I realize the world would be a much better place without noobs. We certainly should not be allowed to reproduce. It just weakens the gene pool. Our pesky survival instinct keeps us from an innate and fruitless desire, to be better; to grow as a human being.
A quick thought. Just because something is "obvious" to an individual, it does not necessarily make said observation true.
I appreciate your effort on my behalf. Volunteering to be a surrogate for the missing parts of my brain, is noble. I am painfully aware that you were not required to step in. I know it was an empathetic choice. A decision made out of pity. Your are a good person. Someone, others, should try to emulate. I hope the forthcoming jpgs of my self mutilation will somewhat supplant your annoyance. My wish for you; the memory of this incident will fade quickly. No one likes a terrible recollection lingering in the subconscious, leaving a bad taste on the brain. I only wish that I could do more to show my appreciation. Pressing the "THANKS" button seems little consolation.
Kidding aside, you helped me solve a nagging issue. I am un-sarcastically grateful.
Peace
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Thank you that was truly fantastic you made my day honestly .. I haven't gotten that much enjoyment reading something in here in weeks. After I pick myself up off the floor. I will try not to be such an ass.. Sorry .Enjoy your device truly, Peace
Glad it made you laugh.
jimyv said:
Thank you that was truly fantastic you made my day honestly .. I haven't gotten that much enjoyment reading something in here in weeks. After I pick myself up off the floor. I will try not to be such an ass.. Sorry .Enjoy your device truly, Peace
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No harm intended. Glad you took it in the spirit, it was intended. Pictures forthcoming. Thread closed :laugh:
Suffer thee, the fools, the helpless, and the redundant.
jimyv said:
It's pretty much pick it up and start reading like the thread just below yours on this page was first thread before you started this one. All your information is messed up and it's obvious to me that you didn't even attempt to look here . My advice is to not modify anything into you read this whole forum or near. Everything you ever needed to know about this device is here somewhere already for you to find .http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2553797 http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2786190 and this was on first page of general http://forum.xda-developers.com/kindle-fire-hdx/general/prevent-updates-hdx-8-9-t2824145
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GSLEON3 had posted a video about whiny people asking for help, whilst not even answering simple questions, to help solve their problem, for them. Here
I solved my OTA issue BTW. THANKS.
The video reminded me of a transcript taken from a tech support phone call at Word Perfect (not even sure WP exists anymore) The story is pretty old, and depending on your age, you may or may not have heard it. Although, I have had my moments of terminal cluelessness (as was the case on these forums recently), I am 30 years tech savvy (UNIX, LINUX, IRIX, Mac, PC, Networks, High-end CG), and can certainly feel the pain SENIOR users feel, The endless annoyances can make you lose faith in the continuation of humanity. I agree, it is frustrating to help someone, with no initiative to learn. When I help someone with a problem, I sometimes feel as though, I have entered the TWILIGHT ZONE. "They could not have possibly meant to ask that question, not out loud, at any rate. I have obviously misheard their question. These are people, that will be responsible for saving the lives of their patients." It's at about that point, my hair get's numb, and rather than have a major "brain event", I hallucinate, and see them as fish, flopping around on dry land. Anyhoo...
This is hysterical. Word Perfect