Related
A few days ago was excited to see the Honeycomb update roll out. Running a rooted best buy flyer. The early reports of installing Honeycomb were not appealing. For some of us finding out the exact procedure (after rooting) is still a mystery. There is no clear cut procedure to update.
Other than some minor security enhancements and a tad more speed, what's the big deal to upgrade anyhow?
The newness of HC will eventually wear off and what are you left with? There are posts about apps not working, formatting issues, sluggishness, loss of menu buttons, system crashes, browser crashes, game installation issues, loss of connectivity, gps not locking...etc, WOW!!!
This is not a motivator to upgrade. I'm sure there are embarrassed and pissed of users who were sorry they upgraded.
I'm going to wait until this things are ironed out and some smart dev stops whining about "too many people are pm'ing them for help." Being a dev has it's responsibilities. Telling users to stop asking for help in an open forum is frigging disgraceful. Forums are for helping people not telling people to shut up. We are all volunteers trying to help each other. Get a reality check.
It's going to be a while until most of the apps in the Android market fully support Honeycomb on tablets. For now Gingerbread works fine, headache-free.
Big_O said:
A few days ago was excited to see the Honeycomb update roll out. Running a rooted best buy flyer. The early reports of installing Honeycomb were not appealing. For some of us finding out the exact procedure (after rooting) is still a mystery. There is no clear cut procedure to update.
Other than some minor security enhancements and a tad more speed, what's the big deal to upgrade anyhow?
The newness of HC will eventually wear off and what are you left with? There are posts about apps not working, formatting issues, sluggishness, loss of menu buttons, system crashes, browser crashes, game installation issues, loss of connectivity, gps not locking...etc, WOW!!!
This is not a motivator to upgrade. I'm sure there are embarrassed and pissed of users who were sorry they upgraded.
I'm going to wait until this things are ironed out and some smart dev stops whining about "too many people are pm'ing them for help." Being a dev has it's responsibilities. Telling users to stop asking for help in an open forum is frigging disgraceful. Forums are for helping people not telling people to shut up. We are all volunteers trying to help each other. Get a reality check.
It's going to be a while until most of the apps in the Android market fully support Honeycomb on tablets. For now Gingerbread works fine, headache-free.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's your device and what you like that should be important.
Choosing a side is tough.
--------------------------
"Neither have they hearts to stay, nor wit enough to run away."
Butler, Samuel on indecision
Took a couple deep breaths before responding to this dribble. I am going to attempt being polite. You clearly are misinformed, but that is not the issue. Your total lack of respect for people who dedicate personal time for little reward for the love of the device and the platform is disgusting. It would be one thing if it stoped there, but oh no it does not. The "whiny" dev you are referring to did not want pms sent so that the resolutions can be read by all, for the greater good. I am particularly fond of this approach as it is how I learned everything I know about android. Reading others experiences, and learning what to avoid and how to recover
In summation, WOW
Sent from my HTC Flyer P510e using xda premium
mcord11758 said:
Took a couple deep breaths before responding to this dribble. I am going to attempt being polite. You clearly are misinformed, but that is not the issue. Your total lack of respect for people who dedicate personal time for little reward for the love of the device and the platform is disgusting. It would be one thing if it stoped there, but oh no it does not. The "whiny" dev you are referring to did not want pms sent so that the resolutions can be read by all, for the greater good. I am particularly fond of this approach as it is how I learned everything I know about android. Reading others experiences, and learning what to avoid and how to recover
In summation, WOW
Sent from my HTC Flyer P510e using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
if i could high five you i would
newalker91 said:
First off, you need to do some damn research as to why Honeycomb is great for tablets. Gingerbread was built for phones, Honeycomb was built for tablets. It makes the most out of your screen space so you can multitask and use larger format interfaces.
Second... WOW.
Congratulations on being the most ignorant petulant child of a poster to ever step into XDA. These developers do what they do out of their own personal interest and creativity. They have NO responsibility to support, update or even RELEASE material to this website. If people like you pulled their head out of their ass long enough to thoroughly read the entire set of instructions and also had a high enough level of reading comprehension to understand said instructions, they wouldn't be getting bombarded with the stupidest PM's for **** like "hai ur rom borke my tablet, i dint wipe data cuz i wunted to save my angry berds game". Calling the developers whiny for not wanting to deal with that? Good lord you're dumb. YOU need to get a reality check before you get banned. I sincerely hope you hard brick your tablet in the near future and no dev responds to your cry for help.
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Click to collapse
As a dev that gets bombarded by stupid questions daily, I want to hug you now.
Big_O said:
I'm going to wait until this things are ironed out and some smart dev stops whining about "too many people are pm'ing them for help." Being a dev has it's responsibilities. Telling users to stop asking for help in an open forum is frigging disgraceful. Forums are for helping people not telling people to shut up. We are all volunteers trying to help each other. Get a reality check.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is the one and only post I will make on this topic.
I never asked people not to ask for help, I told them to do it in the forums where others could learn from the answers. I make no apologies whatsoever for that position.
Continuously dealing with PMs makes it impossible to deal with the underlying issue for the benefit of the whole community. It's pretty selfish to consider oneself entitled to individual support to the detriment of everyone else. In as far as is possible I have tried to answer every single question asked in every thread I have posted, I'm sure there have been a few missed but the number is small. When people have done that and are still stuck I have provided additional support via teamviewer.
In addition to the honeycomb upgrade released at that time for the Flyer I was working on the S-OFF upgrade for the Evo view, a device which I don't even own and for which I had to start form scratch by first patching the honeycomb hboot. This is a device who's users are pretty much all located in a timezone which meant working through the night for me to support them.
I gave up the vast majority of my Christmas/New Year vacation to these two things and then providing support for them. Yes, there is a responsibility on developers to support their work however that responsibility is primarily to the community, not to any one individual. I have more than discharged any developer responsibilities for work I have provided, had I answered all the PMs I received in that time neither of these two items would yet be resolved.
Is ICS not being developed for this tablet? Honeycomb is old news already.
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S Captivate using XDA Premium.
Keep the flames coming . I'm entitled to my opinion in a public forum. Yes, there are some ignorant requests from people, but there is a polite way of handling things? Moderator's can't ban because they don't agree with somebody's post. Have been involved with XDA since 2008. There are hundreds of forums on a multitude of handsets with millions of posts. All the hard work and long hours are greatly appreciated. This doesn't mean I'm going to sheepishly sit on the sidelines and kiss ass and NOT VOICE AN OPINION. This is a tablet. This is the flyer forum. There are many developers (myself included). I'm not in high school and probably more experienced in the real world than some of these college kids hoping I'll brick my device. It's a $300 tablet that is fun to play with. It's a grain of sand on the beach compared to my other toys. If it bricks will throw it away and get another one.
Was happy to see a honeycomb update. Before you tar and feather the mailman, understand this thread is not about bad mouthing a dev who contributes a lot to the XDA community. It's about respectful communication.
The cons outweigh any benefit to move to honeycomb at the moment IMO.
BTW, this isn't the Soviet Union.
BTW: Here's the thread you were looking for in the first place http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1358758
Big_O said:
Was happy to see a honeycomb update. Before you tar and feather the mailman, understand this thread is not about bad mouthing a dev who contributes a lot to the XDA community. It's about respectful communication.
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Click to collapse
There really wouldn't be much of an issue if what you said was respectful. But there was absolutely nothing respectful about what you said:
Big_O said:
I'm going to wait until this things are ironed out and some smart dev stops whining about "too many people are pm'ing them for help." Being a dev has it's responsibilities. Telling users to stop asking for help in an open forum is frigging disgraceful. Forums are for helping people not telling people to shut up. We are all volunteers trying to help each other. Get a reality check.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Big_O said:
A few days ago was excited to see the Honeycomb update roll out. Running a rooted best buy flyer. The early reports of installing Honeycomb were not appealing. For some of us finding out the exact procedure (after rooting) is still a mystery. There is no clear cut procedure to update.
Other than some minor security enhancements and a tad more speed, what's the big deal to upgrade anyhow?
The newness of HC will eventually wear off and what are you left with? There are posts about apps not working, formatting issues, sluggishness, loss of menu buttons, system crashes, browser crashes, game installation issues, loss of connectivity, gps not locking...etc, WOW!!!
This is not a motivator to upgrade. I'm sure there are embarrassed and pissed of users who were sorry they upgraded.
I'm going to wait until this things are ironed out and some smart dev stops whining about "too many people are pm'ing them for help." Being a dev has it's responsibilities. Telling users to stop asking for help in an open forum is frigging disgraceful. Forums are for helping people not telling people to shut up. We are all volunteers trying to help each other. Get a reality check.
It's going to be a while until most of the apps in the Android market fully support Honeycomb on tablets. For now Gingerbread works fine, headache-free.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This just about sums it up … http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0MRmxfLuNto
Thank you. Your time and contributions are greatly appreciated. My apologies.
I will have to save that YouTube URL as it can be used in many threads here on XDA of late. I got a good chuckle from it.
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S Captivate using XDA Premium.
Well you know some people just should just not be allowed to own guns or high tech equipment. But even for those people that have marginal grasp of proper operation of such devices, it would still be OK as long as they only hurt themselves and not those that try to help them. This thread was obviously started by someone that doesn't know how to keep from hurting others and it belongs on the dumpster.
Pretty sad that the OP feels justified to come on here and "speak his opinion" by insulting globatron and call him a whiner. I've been on XDA through 3 different devices over 4 years, and I honestly think he is the most helpful and generous with his time I have seen of any developer or user on all of XDA. He answers just about every question asked of him, and then some. Many developers don't even come close to taking the time to do that. And they shouldn't have to, anyway. Whoever said that just because you are a developer, you have to become everyone's personal unpaid tech support person?
As globatron already indicated, he didn't say he wouldn't help anyone. He just posted some steps to try if you have issues, before bombarding him with PMs. He will still help, and I have seen him help numerous people by opening up a team viewersession, and getting it done through all hours of the night. Is there any forum in the entire internet where a total stranger will give you such help? Not just for smartphones/tablets, but for ANYTHING?
I also don't see the point in coming on here and pigeon-holing your critics as being high-schoolers, and bragging about how you are so rich that you don't care of you brick your Flyer.
No clear cut procedure to update to HC? About 5or 10 minutes of browsing and reading and you would have found that globatron's guide is the way to go. And he was kind enough to spoon feed you the link. All you have to do is download the file and run the .exe. How much easier could it be?
I haven't experienced any system or browser crashes on HC. I'm also puzzled about some people's comments on sluggishness. HC is very snappy for me. Everything seems as responsive as GB. Which is impressive, considering HC is heavier on eye candy and animations. As far as game/app compatibility, it depends on what apps you use. I haven't experienced any compatibility issues. All the core non-game apps I use run exactly as they do on GB. I don't play a huge number of games, but the ones I do play work fine. I know there are some games out there that have issues (Gameloft in particular?). But if the ones you use are compatible, it doesn't matter.
HC is a completely different OS experience from GB, designed for tablet screens rather then a small phone screen. The launcher and menus are all laid out taking advantage of the increased screen real estate. Not sure if its important to you, but the pen integration is hugely increased, and works on many apps, not just Notes and PDFs.
GB was a perfectly functional OS. But it was really just an incremental update of Froyo. HC feels much more refined. While using the Flyer with GB made it feel like just a really big smartphone, HC actually makes it feel like something a step above that. If you don't like the update, its not that hard to roll it back to GB.
Firstly - respect and kudos to the devs and experts that help those of us who are less informed about android and the flyer.
But, I do share something of the OPs sentiment.
The HC upgrade is a pros and cons thing; with the loss of function keys and some reported incompatibilities and some users reporting a slow down.
It is a balance of pros and cons.
The HC upgrade is a step into the unknown and there is no easy downgrade path (which maintains your warranty if you get into difficulty). So it is a plunge... and I too have not yet taken it.
deaglecat said:
Firstly - respect and kudos to the devs and experts that help those of us who are less informed about android and the flyer.
But, I do share something of the OPs sentiment.
The HC upgrade is a pros and cons thing; with the loss of function keys and some reported incompatibilities and some users reporting a slow down.
It is a balance of pros and cons.
The HC upgrade is a step into the unknown and there is no easy downgrade path (which maintains your warranty if you get into difficulty). So it is a plunge... and I too have not yet taken it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I believe leedroids hc Rom has hardware key functionality but I havent tried it. And on behalf of us overly enthusiastic end users who frequent these forums, big thanks to globatron and all the other devs for giving us all that they do.
Sent from my ADR6425LVW using xda premium
Big_O said:
Being a dev has it's responsibilities. Telling users to stop asking for help in an open forum is frigging disgraceful. Forums are for helping people not telling people to shut up.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Big_O said:
There are many developers (myself included). I'm not in high school and probably more experienced in the real world than some of these college kids hoping I'll brick my device. It's a $300 tablet that is fun to play with. It's a grain of sand on the beach compared to my other toys. If it bricks will throw it away and get another one.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To be honest guys, this thread could have been helpful for people who are still decided whether they should upgrade to HC or not. Or at least a good thread for discussion. I personally enjoy reading people's opinion regarding this topic as I'm currently attempting to enjoy HC.
And although I agree with some of you, the OP voiced his opinion and you guys responded by flaming him from the start..
Sent from my HTC Flyer.
Scabes24 said:
To be honest guys, this thread could have been helpful for people who are still decided whether they should upgrade to HC or not. Or at least a good thread for discussion. I personally enjoy reading people's opinion regarding this topic as I'm currently attempting to enjoy HC.
And although I agree with some of you, the OP voiced his opinion and you guys responded by flaming him from the start..
Sent from my HTC Flyer.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think the OP's opinion on the pros and cons of HC is respected by all. It was his labelling of globatron as a whiner that is totally unacceptable especially since he got most of his facts about the issue wrong.
Sent from my HTC Flyer P510e using xda premium
Nvm, nemith is being a jerk and taking away my fun.
You are a gentleman and a scholar. So bad ass dude. I'm looking forward to new developments. I shall donate.
Indirect just want to thank you and the other devs for all your hard work sweat, and what Im sure were some absolutely frustrating times. On behalf of all the xda members who actually know how difficult the tasks that gentlemen such as yourself take on with these android devices, we appreciate it, and implore you to please keep it up in spite of the unwarranted criticism from some. The development community has really changed the way we as a buying public interact with our devices, and I truly believe that the work you all do indirectly forces the hand of big business to create bigger and better....THANK YOU!
DATRUTH141 said:
Indirect just want to thank you and the other devs for all your hard work sweat, and what Im sure were some absolutely frustrating times. On behalf of all the xda members who actually know how difficult the tasks that gentlemen such as yourself take on with these android devices, we appreciate it, and implore you to please keep it up in spite of the unwarranted criticism from some. The development community has really changed the way we as a buying public interact with our devices, and I truly believe that the work you all do indirectly forces the hand of big business to create bigger and better....THANK YOU!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well-spoken, my friend. Exactly my sentiments.
DATRUTH141 said:
Indirect just want to thank you and the other devs for all your hard work sweat, and what Im sure were some absolutely frustrating times. On behalf of all the xda members who actually know how difficult the tasks that gentlemen such as yourself take on with these android devices, we appreciate it, and implore you to please keep it up in spite of the unwarranted criticism from some. The development community has really changed the way we as a buying public interact with our devices, and I truly believe that the work you all do indirectly forces the hand of big business to create bigger and better....THANK YOU!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
DATRUTH speaks the truth! Thanks for all the work. Can't wait to try this.
Sent from my HTC Glacier using xda premium
I'm confused as to what exactly it is you think you've done here?
Stood on the shoulders of giants?
HKVC, Bauwks, Adam, then at the end Nemeth... they carried a discussion for 30 pages figuring out the bypass. Then you post a new thread to bring it to the public? Horrible.
I've never used CM, so maybe i'm wrong, but doesn't it come with installation procedures / instructions? Why would we need your new app here to be able to install it on our Nooks?
Removed foul language
AugustusBot said:
I'm confused as to what exactly it is you think you've done here?
Stood on the shoulders of giants?
HKVC, Bauwks, Adam, then at the end Nemeth... they carried a discussion for 30 pages figuring out the bypass. Then you post a new thread to bring it to the public? Horrible.
I've never used CM, so maybe i'm wrong, but doesn't it come with installation procedures / instructions? Why would we need your new app here to be able to install it on our Nooks?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1) I am simply making an app to make it easier on the general public
2) I havent released until I get permission from Bauwks
3) I only was making the thread for now, I just have the app in development still
4) This isn't a "I WANT TO TAKE CREDIT!", this is a I want to help end users have it be easier on themselves. That's it.
I like racecars.
nemith said:
I like racecars.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I like turtles.
I see London, I see France, I see Indirect's Underpants. lol.
Dammit Xdaghary, are they in a knot again?
I really really like my NT.
DATRUTH141 said:
Indirect just want to thank you and the other devs for all your hard work sweat, and what Im sure were some absolutely frustrating times. On behalf of all the xda members who actually know how difficult the tasks that gentlemen such as yourself take on with these android devices, we appreciate it, and implore you to please keep it up in spite of the unwarranted criticism from some. The development community has really changed the way we as a buying public interact with our devices, and I truly believe that the work you all do indirectly forces the hand of big business to create bigger and better....THANK YOU!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Indirect,
Just wanted to say DOUBLE DITTO to Datruth and to ignore the trolls. There's always some hanging around hoping someone will notice them......
I just want to say I have names on my mind and yours Indirect are one of the ones I must say Thanks for your efforts ant time.
I dont see anyone else working on this. Please make this happen... someone. From my understanding the thread was a discussion and an exploit was pointed out. No one took credit from anyone else. Indirect always gives credit where credit is due. The consumers need things that make it easy... easier the better. Thats why I make videos for yall. I cant program for crap, but me making a video on your hack gets you donations. someone else building on your exploit gets you donations. No one is taking credit from anyone else and the point of an open source community is to build off each other.
albertwertz said:
I dont see anyone else working on this. Please make this happen... someone. From my understanding the thread was a discussion and an exploit was pointed out. No one took credit from anyone else. Indirect always gives credit where credit is due. The consumers need things that make it easy... easier the better. Thats why I make videos for yall. I cant program for crap, but me making a video on your hack gets you donations. someone else building on your exploit gets you donations. No one is taking credit from anyone else and the point of an open source community is to build off each other.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Albert, we can always count on you to say something worthwhile. Thanks man. I too cannot program for **** so people like indirect is helping brilliantly, bringing it to the lay person.
Sent from my HTC Glacier using xda premium
AugustusBot said:
I'm confused as to what exactly it is you think you've done here?
Stood on the shoulders of giants?
HKVC, Bauwks, Adam, then at the end Nemeth... they carried a discussion for 30 pages figuring out the bypass. Then you post a new thread to bring it to the public? Horrible.
I've never used CM, so maybe i'm wrong, but doesn't it come with installation procedures / instructions? Why would we need your new app here to be able to install it on our Nooks?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey you Mr. please watch out how you write on this forum, we don't need people with this attitude, Indirect has made great things for us. With people like this is why many forums on XDA has become a hell and devs has quit and move on, so let's not permit that in here, we are here to help others and share our knowledge; next time be kind and polite.
Veronica
Indirect said:
Nvm, nemith is being a jerk and taking away my fun.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I understand that he is being an extremely low IQ male rooster with social development issues, but dude. Seriously. I know desire is part of the fun, but there are ALWAYS pricks around. There are LITERALLY hundreds if not thousands or people looking and watching and cheering you on every day. Don't let the squeaky wheel get the grease this time.
Also from my slightly conspiracy theory side, how can we be sure that this goober isn't a plant by B&N to try to pies off devs to stop development.....
Whether you continue or not, you are doing something I cannot, and I am extremely grateful for the work you have outing so far. Thanks man.
Posted from my B&N Nook Tablet... rooted of course!
Thank you lavero.burgos you are spot on. If you do have a issue, there are more polite ways to put your thoughts across. On the flip side some of the language in the responses were NOT acceptable, whoever you are! There are many idiots in this world, you need to rise above them. I will be contacting individuals about the matter.
I cant see this thread recovering now.
Thread Closed
I've been wondering how the devs develope stuff for phones. How would you go about making a device support a new OS type? Is here a type of code you guys follow? How does it work?
Sent from the best phone in the world Galaxy Note!!!
depends what ypu want to do. otherwise everything deals with a lot of coding
That didn't answer my questions at all...
Sent from the best phone in the world Galaxy Note!!!
Here is google's knowledge base for developing Android software. Not easy to understand if you have never been exposed to software development but hey, it's a start. Plenty of other places on the web.
http://developer.android.com/index.html
software development takes special skills...and time...but if interested the best way is to dive in, start reading and figure it out.
Majority of developers I know are self-learners and like to explore and figure things out, test, try again, fail, try again, learn, etc.
andrawer said:
software development takes special skills...and time...but if interested the best way is to dive in, start reading and figure it out.
Majority of developers I know are self-learners and like to explore and figure things out, test, try again, fail, try again, learn, etc.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
^^^^^^ Good answer. Most people interested in development roll their sleeves up and get busy. They don't just start a thread and wait for the answer. Oh, and they also don't crap on the first answer that they get, either. But good luck. Maybe we'll see some of your work here some day.
I was going to chime in and explain it as best I could, but after seeing how you replied to the first answer, I decided not to. I'll let you find the answer on your own. If you can't do this, you can't develop.
kimtyson said:
. . . Most people interested in development roll their sleeves up and get busy. They don't just start a thread and wait for the answer. Oh, and they also don't crap on the first answer that they get, either.
. . .
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1.
Sent from my Galaxy S II (i777)
andrawer's answer was useful, xavier's answer was useless, and the answers after his sucked donkey balls.
I've been programming since 1986. I've mentored lots of newbies and some need a little handholding at first, some jump in right from the start. andrawer pointed him in the right direction... if 6 months from now he still needs handholding then its time to reconsider. Until then, don't be an asshole.
I decided to get into programming for Android as well. I bought the book, Java A Beginner's Guide. I have no experience on any language but I will get into that book and hopefully learn Java. Should I take classes as well or book will be enough for me to learn and advance in Java?
techntrek said:
andrawer's answer was useful, xavier's answer was useless, and the answers after his sucked donkey balls.
I've been programming since 1986. I've mentored lots of newbies and some need a little handholding at first, some jump in right from the start. andrawer pointed him in the right direction... if 6 months from now he still needs handholding then its time to reconsider. Until then, don't be an asshole.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As a peer who began programming back in the days of Fortran77 and Pascal, I have to interject with somewhat of a different perspective. The original question(s) were vague, a tad confusing, too broad, and above all else, completely off topic to this particular forum.
Granted, the first answer should have been to point him towards educating himself on the various pieces that make a phone operational, but more importantly, to learn design, development, various programming languages and how they're applied to mobile technology.
With that said, the first appearance of name calling was with your post. As senior citizens in the confines of XDA it's really expected that we lead by example. Are there going to be wise-butt remarks, those that are useless, and some that are on the crass side? Sure.. but lets leave that to the kids who aren't quite as experienced and mature.
JoeDV said:
As a peer who began programming back in the days of Fortran77 and Pascal, I have to interject with somewhat of a different perspective. The original question(s) were vague, a tad confusing, too broad, and above all else, completely off topic to this particular forum.
Granted, the first answer should have been to point him towards educating himself on the various pieces that make a phone operational, but more importantly, to learn design, development, various programming languages and how they're applied to mobile technology.
With that said, the first appearance of name calling was with your post. As senior citizens in the confines of XDA it's really expected that we lead by example. Are there going to be wise-butt remarks, those that are useless, and some that are on the crass side? Sure.. but lets leave that to the kids who aren't quite as experienced and mature.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1000
nice call Joe
but man....."senior citizens"? I don't think I've ever been called a senior citizen, pushing 40 here but man....LOL. But I get your analogy
Middle age, yes, senior citizen... not yet. Although relative to 95% of the members of this site, we are probably ancients.
Just irks me when I see someone show the beginnings of an interest in the profession (or hobby) and the responses are snarky and unhelpful. I see it all the time, not just on this thread.
As for off-topic, not really. This forum is all about apps and OSes, all of which start with code. An interest in learning how to code is the first step.
Hey all,
I've been a lurker for a while, been looking for a way to encourage the now Google-owned Motorola Mobility to unlock their bootloaders much like HTC has wisely done, but it's becoming more and more obvious to me that they don't care about the "minority" of us that actually feels as though we are entitled to full admin rights on our phones that we either paid a ton of cash for, or signed a lengthy contract to obtain. Verizon is the one blocking it? HTC found a way, and so can Motorola Mobility...that is cop-out.
My proposal is that there be an effort to unlocked the bootloader, I am not some expert programmer, and I am open to whatever will help the cause. I know there was a bounty on it, but to me this isn't about money, I'll donate time, money, information ripped from my phone if it, in some way, contributes to unlocked that bootloader. Even if you need my unused CPU cycles to calculate things, I don't care, just tell me what I can to do help, because I am sick of not being able to use my phone to it's fully potential.
Maybe I am being naive, but I believe if we all worked together we could accomplish this goal. If you agree, please, let's organize and figure this out!
-Joshua
I love optimism
I'm down with the movement...
This phone does have mad potential to be so limited compared to other phones.
I just can't believe that we are running an unofficial, incomplete version of CM7 and it runs smoother than stock Blur.
Is that telling you something about Motorola?
Do you guys think Google will make that decision for Motorola or will Moto stay the same?
Sent from my Android
Worth a try...
Re: Google changing Moto policy
I don't know so much about Google changing Motorola's stance on the locked bootloader, we've tried petitioning the company themselves, but have we tried petitioning Google? Or maybe it's too soon, maybe they are working on it right now? Hard to tell, and I don't want to put pressure on Google too soon especially if they are trying diligently right now to do the right thing.
But the above poster is right, cracking it ourselves is definitely worth a try. I have contacts (unfortunately know inside Motorola), I know people with lots of knowledge on encryption, I'll be honest one of my friends does have a knack for the impossible, but this would be too much for one lone person. I also have a few computers in the house, to donate computing power. None above 5 GB of RAM unfortunately, but my friend with all of that know-how does also have a synchronous 20/mbit up/down connection to the net, if that helps, and I have another friend that is the linux admin at a an unnamed private university in Durham that might could lend a hand in some way.
We have the resources, we just need to pool them.
Someone with the realistic technical know-how, just tell us where to begin, and the shortest path to getting to our goal and we'll do all we can to contribute!
Thanks for understanding and not just writing this off as a pipe-dream...because I know if we work together we can accomplish almost anything.
-Joshua
spyda256 said:
I don't know so much about Google changing Motorola's stance on the locked bootloader, we've tried petitioning the company themselves, but have we tried petitioning Google? Or maybe it's too soon, maybe they are working on it right now? Hard to tell, and I don't want to put pressure on Google too soon especially if they are trying diligently right now to do the right thing.
But the above poster is right, cracking it ourselves is definitely worth a try. I have contacts (unfortunately know inside Motorola), I know people with lots of knowledge on encryption, I'll be honest one of my friends does have a knack for the impossible, but this would be too much for one lone person. I also have a few computers in the house, to donate computing power. None above 5 GB of RAM unfortunately, but my friend with all of that know-how does also have a synchronous 20/mbit up/down connection to the net, if that helps, and I have another friend that is the linux admin at a an unnamed private university in Durham that might could lend a hand in some way.
We have the resources, we just need to pool them.
Someone with the realistic technical know-how, just tell us where to begin, and the shortest path to getting to our goal and we'll do all we can to contribute!
Thanks for understanding and not just writing this off as a pipe-dream...because I know if we work together we can accomplish almost anything.
-Joshua
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i love your optimism i have some old pms that may help with the effort
SHA-1 brute force can be cracked for around $2 of Amazon cloud computing service.
http://www.geek.com/articles/news/r...for-2-10-with-amazons-cloud-service-20101122/
Isn't boot loader use SHA-1 encryption?
(of course, the key may be much longer, but it may not be impossible for cheap. I say try to pool together like $100 and try Amazon cloud computing a try?)
Re: Amazon
hpark21:
I like the way you're thinking, does anyone else think this might be a good call? I know there was a bounty of around ~$800 somewhere, so I doubt if all of us who rightfully were promised and unlocked bootloader wouldn't mind pooling a bit of money for the computing power, hell I myself would give $50 to the effort if we knew it was a viable solution.
Other thoughts?
Also, ztotherad, if you could send me those PMs maybe we can sift through those and see if there are some other avenues, nothing is off the table at this point.
thanks again for coming together on this, that is the true meaning of community.
spyda256 said:
hpark21:
I like the way you're thinking, does anyone else think this might be a good call? I know there was a bounty of around ~$800 somewhere, so I doubt if all of us who rightfully were promised and unlocked bootloader wouldn't mind pooling a bit of money for the computing power, hell I myself would give $50 to the effort if we knew it was a viable solution.
Other thoughts?
Also, ztotherad, if you could send me those PMs maybe we can sift through those and see if there are some other avenues, nothing is off the table at this point.
thanks again for coming together on this, that is the true meaning of community.
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i can def send you them, idk how much help theyll be
Uh, I think it's already been established that brute forcing it is impossible.
Stuckinabox said:
Uh, I think it's already been established that brute forcing it is impossible.
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In one of the many threads concerning bootloader unlocks, I believe the chances of us finding it were determined to be 1mill:1. It would take us over a decade to manually come up with the key. I don't want to kill confidence, but I'd like to keep things relatively rational.
Sent from my MB870 using xda premium
Stuckinabox said:
Uh, I think it's already been established that brute forcing it is impossible.
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it's been established that brute forcing is nearly impossible, not completely impossible
it is something that would take an insane amount of resources to accomplish , and/or time ,
it would really come down to "how lucky are we?" really, as in::: how lucky are we that we stumble across or know a genius that can crack it, stumble across needed files, etc...
good luck to all who try, I wish I could do anything to get us there, but I don't know the first thing when it comes to this stuff, don't give up the dream!
Basically, what it comes down to is:
Find out what their hash key is. (encrypted password)
Then, try to go through all valid characters and see whether the input matches the output hash.
If one is lucky and they used short enough password, then it will be quick to find.
If unlucky and they used really long password, then the answer is that we won't be able to find it in REASONABLE time. (I would say 1-2 months to be reasonable - at $2/hr, it would cost $48/ day).
Only issue is when do we stop?
hpark21 said:
Basically, what it comes down to is:
Find out what their hash key is. (encrypted password)
Then, try to go through all valid characters and see whether the input matches the output hash.
If one is lucky and they used short enough password, then it will be quick to find.
If unlucky and they used really long password, then the answer is that we won't be able to find it in REASONABLE time. (I would say 1-2 months to be reasonable - at $2/hr, it would cost $48/ day).
Only issue is when do we stop?
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There was some kind of crazy algorithm applied to each character to generate the correct item for each number of the key, correct? We would have to come up with that too?
Sent from my MB870 using xda premium
THANK YOU! Finally ... a revived movement. I pledged $100 on another thread and I'm good for putting it toward an unlocked bootloader again!
To learn from one of the most influential groups of our generation ... anonymous utilizes botnets to pool computing resources ... if we get a tool that could function similarly, could we not pool 1000s of computers together to crack it faster? It would make what is not feasible for a small set of computers to do... feasible. If all most users have to do is download a tool that gives us access to processing power and bandwidth ... users will download the hell out of it.
Count me in.
[ sent from _base2 ]
Hope
I understand doubters, and odds are likely against us, but that's ok, no one person can do it, and maybe not just one method, but somehow we WILL get to our goal. Whether Motorola capitulates or we find a method to crack it, we will not have this awesome hardware go to waste.
I am not generally a "black hat" kind of person, but in this case we are in the right so far as I am concerned (please don't quote DMCA BS to me, lol) because they made a promise to their customers, and it will be kept, whether they like it or not.
So, I am with the above poster that mention he didn't know quite where to start, or where we have already made progress, but if someone can help us out, explain the process, we figure out how to move forward. (Please forgive the run-on sentence).
I've minimal experience programming, only VB.net, C++, and a bit of Java from college, and I do tier 2 desktop support for a bank these days, but on my off time I'd love to spend it on something worthwhile, all of you deserve this, and we'll make it happen.
Maybe it's the troubleshooter in me that sees the problem and says "oh no, there's a way, we just need to find it". I have a colleague, the one I spoke of before, he has a knack for doing incredible things, so once we have a breakdown of what we need to do, perhaps he can be of help.
So my friends, where do we go from here?
spyda256 said:
I understand doubters, and odds are likely against us, but that's ok, no one person can do it, and maybe not just one method, but somehow we WILL get to our goal. Whether Motorola capitulates or we find a method to crack it, we will not have this awesome hardware go to waste.
I am not generally a "black hat" kind of person, but in this case we are in the right so far as I am concerned (please don't quote DMCA BS to me, lol) because they made a promise to their customers, and it will be kept, whether they like it or not.
So, I am with the above poster that mention he didn't know quite where to start, or where we have already made progress, but if someone can help us out, explain the process, we figure out how to move forward. (Please forgive the run-on sentence).
I've minimal experience programming, only VB.net, C++, and a bit of Java from college, and I do tier 2 desktop support for a bank these days, but on my off time I'd love to spend it on something worthwhile, all of you deserve this, and we'll make it happen.
Maybe it's the troubleshooter in me that sees the problem and says "oh no, there's a way, we just need to find it". I have a colleague, the one I spoke of before, he has a knack for doing incredible things, so once we have a breakdown of what we need to do, perhaps he can be of help.
So my friends, where do we go from here?
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sir, did you get my pms?
Re: PMs
Nope, just saw them, thanks for that!
Howdy folks.
I enjoy being able to help out around here, I really do. But I think it's time for me to take a step back. Being on here shouldn't be stressful; it should be fun. This is my hobby; it's supposed to be fun. But when I go through a lot of trouble to put information in my posts and try to explain things, only to have people ask questions that have been answered over and over again, it gets extremely frustrating. I understand not everyone has the same aptitude for this stuff, but anyone that decides to be here has chosen to learn more about their device. They want to get the most out of it. To do that, will require reading and learning. Searching. Reading more. I just want to encourage everyone that wants to learn to read. And if you don't want to learn - if you just want quick answers to quick problems - then you may be in the wrong place. I think there are other, more "noob-friendly" forums, but this place is where the information gets deep. So while you might not know how to do everything, or understand what all the terms mean, at least give it a shot if you're going to be here. This community is built by people that may have started out knowing nothing (like me), but after years of reading and learning, they find ways to contribute. I hope someday everyone can get to that point. I hope that I've helped some of you get there.
But I am daily inundated with PMs of questions answered in the forum. I am not a shortcut to prevent you from having to search. My time is valuable, just like everyone else's. Use the forum. That's what it's here for. It's how I learned.
I'll probably still pop in here and there, but I'm going to try to be around less. I just see a lot of arbitrary information being spoken, information incorrect and not fact-based, and it frustrates me. So, maybe once my frustration dies down, I'll be more inclined to contribute more, but right now, I think it's time for a break.
I want to personally thank you for all that you have done for the community, and me.
Thanks CT.
Thanks for all your hard work, Cap. Take a break & get some rest.
Sent from my EVO LTE
FinZ28 said:
Thanks for all your hard work, Cap. Take a break & get some rest.
Sent from my EVO LTE
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+1. Thank you Captain.
Some of us are eternally grateful for your contributions. Thank you sir and enjoy your free time. You've certainly earned it.
EVOlved human
I think that there are enough knowledgeable folks around here to handle things while you are gone. I try to answer the redundant questions, but you're just fast at answering them, too. Enjoy your break.
Suggestion: don't "try" to be around less...just don't.
Internet is serious business. Get well soon.
Sorry to hear Captain. Thanks for all the help over the last few years. You've gotten me out of a few pickles. I hope to see you around these parts again.
Hey Captain- You are one of the many devs I have great admiration and respect for, due to your patience and willingness to help those whom are less informed. It's part of what makes you a good person. Forums are forums. I belong to so many ranging in every subject. There are those whom take shortcuts, and those whom respect the rules and follow them.
From my experience, I can't stay away even when frustrated. A lot of the peeps on the forums I consider friends, or close associates even though I never met them. Those are the peeps keeping me coming back.
So, I encourage you to do what's best for you. But, if you're anything like me, you'll ignore the ignorant, and continue to help, as that's what your gift is. Thank you.
Sent from my EVO using xda app-developers app
No doubt bro, you've been busy, we all appreciate the tremendous amount of hard work and information you've put out there for everyone. Thank cap!
Sent from my EVO using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
Hi, can anyone tell me if Captain Throwback is going to take a step back or not? It may have been posted somewhere, but I don't have time to search.
...ha, just playing. Thanks Captain - I've been on here for a few years, but only started posting recently after I learned more. I highly appreciate your contributions and respect that you need to decompress and relax a bit more from the day to day here..can be quite overwhelming.
thanks for your time and efforts.
And then people wonder why we don't release roms.... :screwy:
Sent from my EVO using xda app-developers app
Thank you Captain for everything you have done for the community. I remember you being the man since the OG Evo days. I know if you post something, it can be trusted. I have learned a lot from your posts, and hope I can one day contribute back. It's a shame your hobby was spoiled for you by spoiled users. Hope to see you back.
Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk
Thanks for everything you've done Captain. I've never had to ask you a question, because you do answer them thoroughly up front. Please know just how much you have helped and how much I've learned from your posts. Take the time you need.
Thanks.
Thank you!
It is sad when something you love becomes a daily function and no longer is a passion. I never post on these threads, but when I see developers like Sin and Captain looking to walk away from their passion due to the frustration from US, so it is time to THINK BEFORE WE POST. We need to take a step back and solve our own issues on the forums. It is all there on the threads, but we chose to take the easy road and ask simple question instead of taking 5 minutes to google key words or read the thread entirely. I have learned so much from Capt. and Sin and many others like them. I see that they both want a break and they very much deserve time away from the critics as well. We do ask the same questions a half a dozen times within a 50 pg. thread. I have played with my phones just to see it tick from the good old Evo Supersonic (god bless my first love that lead me into these forums) and my current love the Evo Jewel. I look back and have loved bricking my phone, so I can dig deep into these forums and fix. It took me 30 hours of my time researching and yes wanting to throw through a window, but I finally fixed and that was an awesome feeling. The nice thing is that I learned from reading forum or from googling. I never will forget how to unbrick a phone or the tools that allowed me get it working once again. Thank you gentlemen for all your hard work. Enjoy your much needed time off JIM
JimmyJimH said:
It is sad when something you love becomes a daily function and no longer is a passion. I never post on these threads, but when I see developers like Sin and Captain looking to walk away from their passion due to the frustration from US, so it is time to THINK BEFORE WE POST. We need to take a step back and solve our own issues on the forums. It is all there on the threads, but we chose to take the easy road and ask simple question instead of taking 5 minutes to google key words or read the thread entirely. I have learned so much from Capt. and Sin and many others like them. I see that they both want a break and they very much deserve time away from the critics as well. We do ask the same questions a half a dozen times within a 50 pg. thread. I have played with my phones just to see it tick from the good old Evo Supersonic (god bless my first love that lead me into these forums) and my current love the Evo Jewel. I look back and have loved bricking my phone, so I can dig deep into these forums and fix. It took me 30 hours of my time researching and yes wanting to throw through a window, but I finally fixed and that was an awesome feeling. The nice thing is that I learned from reading forum or from googling. I never will forget how to unbrick a phone or the tools that allowed me get it working once again. Thank you gentlemen for all your hard work. Enjoy your much needed time off JIM
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I couldn't say it any better. I have been following captain's 4.3 stock thread as well as chubbz 4.3 5.5 thread since day one. I'm relatively new to this and they have explained stuff in ways that I can understand and if I can't I go to google first. I very rarely post a question without doing any searching. These devs work their ass off to provide ways to make our devices better and what they get in return are ungreatful comments or complaints and the same question being asked. Sometimes it looks like the repeated question was literally a copy/paste job. Seriously the devs shouldn't have to hold our hands. Let's be big kids and not frustrate our devs anymore. They don't deserve it. Search before you post please. I don't want to lose the great devs and be stuck with the jewel without the option to make it better.
HTC Jewel
Hboot 2.10 S-off
Android 4.3 Sense 5.5 V3
do you mind if i pm and ask you exactly why? i didnt read the the OP.
ok too soon, too soon. Im just joking and i sincerely thank you for all of your help. i remember rooting my OG evo years ago and my heart was pounding and my hands were sweating. It was so exciting and scary at the same time, and i remember i read a lot of info and never had to post because everything was already there just ready to be read and searched.
Thanks to all the devs.
Been following your wisdom and kindness for almost two years. Thank you for all your time,patients, and devotion to all here.
Sent from my EVO using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
Thank you Captain.
Every device forum here on XDA is full of grievances from developers or faithful patrons about the frequency of redundant questions, stupidity, laziness, etc. It seems like it has always been this way to some extent but may be getting worse lately. Let's face it, early adopters are more likely to be technophiles and take the time to do more research. The older the device gets, the cheaper and more accessible it becomes and customers that just bought the cheapest cool phone they could are going to start popping up. We're fortunate there are still good devs spending time on this device and that HTC even put out a new update this late in the game for the devs to work with.
Developers have various ways of coping with this frustrating behavior but the end result always tends to be isolationism. Doesn't that indicate the system is broken? Shouldn't there be better controls in place to limit this behavior? I think the mods do the best they can with the resources and rules available to them but maybe people like me should relegated to being a fly on the wall only being able to read the discussions between developers. If non-devs are going to be allowed to post, perhaps the number of posts should be limited to a couple per week/month/whatever and increased based on some merit based system. That will confer some value to the posts you make so they aren't wasted on something you could have searched for. It is too easy to just ask the question without searching. Conversely, a more robust DEmerit system could be implemented. If you post a stupid question instead of everyone flaming you, they get to hit a "demerit" button and once you hit a threshold you can't post again for a week/month/whatever. If you flame someone anyways and people think you're too harsh, they get to demerit you. Maybe the devs should have to invite you to be a member in order to gain access to posting privileges. Envision it working like a private torrenting site. You're responsible for the people you invite and if you leech way more than you seed both you and the person that invited you get penalized.
I thought the introduction of the "Original Android Development" forum was going to be limited solely to developers and I think that was the intent but it didn't really work out that way. I think the developers should get to have an adults' table to eat at with the rest of us sitting at the kids' table (and I'm 36) until we're old enough or prove we're mature enough to get invited over. Until then we just have to hope we get to overhear some interesting stories or dirty jokes coming from the other table.
Just my 2 cents.
Thanks Captain and all the other devs for making my devices more interesting.