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It seems like every other posted question or comment lately is answered with a smart ass remark or the op is insulted for an honest mistake or posting a question that they didnt realize had already been asked. Yes we know we need to read before posting. Sometimes people just want to ask the question from their point of view. If half of the replies would be helpful answers instead of insulting comments the forums wouldnt get jammed up with "repeat questions". For the most part people seem cool on here and Im just wondering what some others think of this?
Get your flame suit on cause you're about to get toasted for this thread.
But I agree with you. I'm kinda tired of the attitude here but this has been my home for 2 years and I don't plan on leaving. I wish people would drop the attitudes and be more helpful sometimes. It is what it is though. I just turn a blind eye to it.
Cheers
Sent from my SGH-I777 using xda premium
I dont care about being flamed. I see others get flamed all the time on here. If someone is going to post another smart ass comment to my post then they should not bother. I understand people are people and I am not going anywhere either. But it just gets old...
I've noticed, and I agree with you. Unfortunately, it seems as though our forum is slowly starting to turn into most others I've seen. Let's hope it doesn't get worse.
There is absolutely no use in the way some people respond. For some reason, they don't seem to realize that the time they wasted on creating a snarky remark took up more time than just passing the thread by. Usually, someone will be kind enough to provide help or direction. I understand the frustration some times, and think users should be educated on how to go about finding information that already exists. BUT, when it's done with an unnecessary attitude, or worse, attitude is given with no useful help, it accomplishes nothing. It creates an atmosphere that doesn't lend itself to building our community.
I'm normally really quiet on here unless I have some constructive comment or help those that are in need who really need it.
But, the main problem for all the noob question is the lack of direction for noobs to find the info they really need to seek out. Common problem on any type of forum, but is part of how community forums work. Microsoft's community does a good job in controlling this with great help with constructive help on posts given by the moderators and links from others who shared the same type of problem.
Just my 2 pence worth.
Simba501 said:
I've noticed, and I agree with you. Unfortunately, it seems as though our forum is slowly starting to turn into most others I've seen. Let's hope it doesn't get worse.
There is absolutely no use in the way some people respond. For some reason, they don't seem to realize that the time they wasted on creating a snarky remark took up more time than just passing the thread by. Usually, someone will be kind enough to provide help or direction. I understand the frustration some times, and think users should be educated on how to go about finding information that already exists. BUT, when it's done with an unnecessary attitude, or worse, attitude is given with no useful help, it accomplishes nothing. It creates an atmosphere that doesn't lend itself to building our community.
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You just hit the nail on the head!
capathy21 said:
It seems like every other posted question or comment lately is answered with a smart ass remark or the op is insulted for an honest mistake or posting a question that they didnt realize had already been asked. Yes we know we need to read before posting. Sometimes people just want to ask the question from their point of view. If half of the replies would be helpful answers instead of insulting comments the forums wouldnt get jammed up with "repeat questions". For the most part people seem cool on here and Im just wondering what some others think of this?
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The reason is that XDA is traditionally a DEVELOPER forum. Not a CONSUMER forum.
Yes, the original purpose of XDA has expanded, however back in the day, this site was mostly focused on technical issues. Rather than asking a simple and probably already answered question, *everyone* searched and searched again to find an answer. And if that didn't work, it was preferably to PM someone a question over starting a whole thread titled: "X thing that I'm trying to do doesn't work. Please help me!!! Sorry I'm a n00b!!!"".
There are no "stupid" question per se (though really, some folks around here push that boundary to its absolute limit), but there are plenty of already answered questions floating around. Even the OP's question/comment has been addressed millions of times before around here. Experienced XDA users get annoyed when people ask those same questions over and over again. And even though everyone says "I searched but couldn't find an answer for X", usually that's not really true. They may have quickly tried a single search term in the Vbulletin search, then probably gave up. They almost certainly haven't read the official XDA rules, and certainly haven't tried creative ways of finding the answer they are looking for.
This IS A DEVELOPER COMMUNITY. If you can't be bothered to try more than a few minutes of searching, then you are lazy, and it's not really worth the time of others to respond. Hence the flaming, and the anger, and the people attacking n00bs for already-answered questions. This is not a "community support forum" for those people who just picked up a new device and what to "r00tz that ****z" so they can play pirated games and tether for free. This is a community for people to work together on technical aspects of our amazing devices, and squeeze every drop of power from the silicon/glass/plastic devices we all love so much. Yes, people are people, not everyone will search properly, and yes, the majority user-base of XDA has changed a lot over the past 3-4 years. That doesn't mean you can just do whatever you want and not follow the clearly posted XDA rules. And it doesn't mean you have the right to post threads of "OMFG I can't believe how mean all these people who donate their time for free to the community are". Get over it. If you want to idly chat and whine about this that and the other, there are plenty of other places on the internet to do that. XDA is not the place.
Originally, there was very little hostility around XDA over stupid or silly threads. This was because they were so rare, and were often honest mistakes. I don't want to read about your whining and complaining about people being mean. You're right, I *could* just skip over the thread and not say anything (which, undoubtedly, many folks are given the responses so far). But you posted it in the Galaxy S2 i777 General Forum. This thread has nothing to do with the i777 GS2. Whine elsewhere, or be flamed. That's the long and short of it.
Good luck and welcome to XDA!
I have noticed this and commented on it in other threads also. The forum has went to **** the past few months.
I have been on this account for almost 3 years on here and 2 before that with another account so i have seen the changes. The reason there are so many newbs and questions is because Android and tablet use has exploded in the past year and half.
Sent from my SGH-I897 using xda premium
Agreed with OP, I am an active member on the NOOKcolor forum and I've tried to help newbies over and over and over and over and over and over again.
Yes, today newbie A asks a question, next week, newbie B ask the same question, and so on. Not only me but entire XDA members in NC room politely answering all and guide them through each step. Coming into this SGS2 room, geez, reading posts/responses really disappointed. Developers are great but power users seem to be God and expect every newbie has to know before asking. Duh, really?
I don't know if before they know about those stuff, when they were still newbie, didn't anyone showed them nicely step by step or just yelled at them like they do now
People can be assholes. Yes, most of the time it is uncalled for. i try to help when I can, because I hope someone will help me when I need it. But, at the same time, people need to learn to try to help themselves. See my sig.
We were all newbs at one point - even still, it's expected that everyone, newb and veteran alike are to read the rules and use the search function.
It's all well and good that someone makes an honest mistake by posting the same threads over again, but when it happens by every Joe Blow that comes in here, two or more times a week, and there's already 10 threads on the same topic, and said person never thought to use the search function, has **** grammar and syntax even asking their question or making a "Galaxy S II vs. ?" for the 18th time, it pisses those of us off that actually used our brain when we came here.
See, you got it all wrong: XDA wasn't made for you and I - it is a DEVELOPER'S forum. They were kind enough to let the average user sign up, expecting us to be knowledgeable enough not to be asshats that make a hundred of the same threads. Being self-entitled, thinking that the users who want to keep the developers actually developing, not answering bull**** questions for the 15th time are in the wrong for being firm, even harsh with people that don't, then there's the door. You either help the developers or get out of the way. If the developers or power users are kind enough to help answer certain questions once or twice, then count it as a blessing. DON'T even get mad when those people are then annoyed because the newb doesn't abide by rules or use their brain.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using xda premium
votinh said:
Agreed with OP, I am an active member on the NOOKcolor forum and I've tried to help newbies over and over and over and over and over and over again.
Yes, today newbie A asks a question, next week, newbie B ask the same question, and so on. Not only me but entire XDA members in NC room politely answering all and guide them through each step. Coming into this SGS2 room, geez, reading posts/responses really disappointed. Developers are great but power users seem to be God and expect every newbie has to know before asking. Duh, really?
I don't know if before they know about those stuff, when they were still newbie, didn't anyone showed them nicely step by step or just yelled at them like they do now
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When I was a n00b I read XDA for hours and hours before I would consider posting. And I tried very hard to read as much as possible before asking questions. That's how a n00b becomes a power user. By learning on their own. Plus, if asked with humility, and a sincere effort to "search before posting", you'll find people tend to not actually get flamed. It's only when people express their feeling of entitlement to an answer they could have probably discovered themselves that problems begin to brew...
Shammyh said:
The reason is that XDA is traditionally a DEVELOPER forum. Not a CONSUMER forum.
Yes, the original purpose of XDA has expanded, however back in the day, this site was mostly focused on technical issues. Rather than asking a simple and probably already answered question, *everyone* searched and searched again to find an answer. And if that didn't work, it was preferably to PM someone a question over starting a whole thread titled: "X thing that I'm trying to do doesn't work. Please help me!!! Sorry I'm a n00b!!!"".
There are no "stupid" question per se (though really, some folks around here push that boundary to its absolute limit), but there are plenty of already answered questions floating around. Even the OP's question/comment has been addressed millions of times before around here. Experienced XDA users get annoyed when people ask those same questions over and over again. And even though everyone says "I searched but couldn't find an answer for X", usually that's not really true. They may have quickly tried a single search term in the Vbulletin search, then probably gave up. They almost certainly haven't read the official XDA rules, and certainly haven't tried creative ways of finding the answer they are looking for.
This IS A DEVELOPER COMMUNITY. If you can't be bothered to try more than a few minutes of searching, then you are lazy, and it's not really worth the time of others to respond. Hence the flaming, and the anger, and the people attacking n00bs for already-answered questions. This is not a "community support forum" for those people who just picked up a new device and what to "r00tz that ****z" so they can play pirated games and tether for free. This is a community for people to work together on technical aspects of our amazing devices, and squeeze every drop of power from the silicon/glass/plastic devices we all love so much. Yes, people are people, not everyone will search properly, and yes, the majority user-base of XDA has changed a lot over the past 3-4 years. That doesn't mean you can just do whatever you want and not follow the clearly posted XDA rules. And it doesn't mean you have the right to post threads of "OMFG I can't believe how mean all these people who donate their time for free to the community are". Get over it. If you want to idly chat and whine about this that and the other, there are plenty of other places on the internet to do that. XDA is not the place.
Originally, there was very little hostility around XDA over stupid or silly threads. This was because they were so rare, and were often honest mistakes. I don't want to read about your whining and complaining about people being mean. You're right, I *could* just skip over the thread and not say anything (which, undoubtedly, many folks are given the responses so far). But you posted it in the Galaxy S2 i777 General Forum. This thread has nothing to do with the i777 GS2. Whine elsewhere, or be flamed. That's the long and short of it.
Good luck and welcome to XDA!
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I did not post this to "whine". I posted it because if I am reading something I get sick of smart ass responses. It may have been a developer only forum at one time but it no longer is. I along with many other people here are in no way developers, but know a little bit about it compared to the average joe and want to learn more. I greatly appreciate the hard working devs who donate their time and genius minds so that we can get the most out of our devices. Its not my first rodeo on a device forum by any means. They are designed for people to help others and learn. There is no place for the attitude. Period.
Shammyh said:
The reason is that XDA is traditionally a DEVELOPER forum. Not a CONSUMER forum.
This IS A DEVELOPER COMMUNITY.
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I've been on XDA for a little over a year, I think...ever since I got the captivate. I think I may have 1 or 2 posts in the development forum and 10 or 11 in the general forums. I have spent countless hours searching, reading, searching some more and reading some more until I got the answer I needed for my particular question. Almost 100% of the issues people ask about have been answered before.
That said, I think you're off of on a couple of your bolded comments. This is just as much of a consumer forum as it is a developers forum. The developers themselves have made it that way.
Nearly all google searches about android issues point to some XDA thread. Developers work hard and are often times compensated for their work (donations.) Although, I do not think the main driving force for their hard work is donations. They do it because they love it and they want to share their work with the CONSUMERS that frequent this site.
Flaming an unsuspecting consumer, who may not have done enough research on their own, into oblivion only has negative effects. That person may be a donator that decides to leave, for example. I've used the forum search on a number of occasions and to be honest, it is quite cumbersome...there is just so much data to go through. That doesn't stop me but it is quite frustrating some times.
I think a more effective strategy for dealing with consumers, who may not be as diligent at researching as most, would be to simply ignore the post. This will force them to do more research on their own. Now, you have a user who does more research on their own and you don't look like a ****.
Flaming is pointless. Those that do it are jerks.
Shammyh said:
When I was a n00b I read XDA for hours and hours before I would consider posting. And I tried very hard to read as much as possible before asking questions. That's how a n00b becomes a power user. By learning on their own. Plus, if asked with humility, and a sincere effort to "search before posting", you'll find people tend to not actually get flamed. It's only when people express their feeling of entitlement to an answer they could have probably discovered themselves that problems begin to brew...
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Yup, in addition to one of the links in my sig being STRONGLY recommended reading:
Whenever I purchase a device, I always spend at least an hour or two a day for 2-3 days reading the forums for that device to learn its ins and outs before I post ANYTHING. Actually, in many cases, I do that before even purchasing.
XDA has clearly stated rules, and Rule #1 is to search before posting. In addition, any new users has to watch the infamous "Noob on XDA" video as part of the registration process now.
So there is NO excuse for not searching. Especially when a user posts a new thread with:
1) A question from the FAQ - it is there for a reason
2) A question that has already been covered in MULTIPLE topics that are still on the first 1-2 pages of the forum. It takes 30 seconds to skim through a page of thread titles - but users insist that someone else spend 2-3 minutes digging up a thread for them instead of spending a minute to read thread titles.
Yes, sometimes we can spend almost as much time on the flame - but at least that lets us relieve our stress at yet another user who thinks they deserve special treatment and doesn't have to follow the rules.
Edit: As to just ignoring a post - A user that didn't bother to search won't go away. They'll do something even more annoying like creating yet another NEW thread, posting a thread in Development because it wasn't answered in General or Q&A, or bumping their thread after only 12 hours. They only way they'll learn any lesson is to get a little toasty.
While donations are nice, the kind of user who comes with the kind of sense of self-entitlement that gets them flamed isn't going to donate anyway. Plus I could get quadruple the donations I've received in 3 months, and I'd still wind up with less than half a week's pay at my real job.
The amount of time one will spend searching and reading will be FAR less than the time you waste because you didn't read and screwed something up.
"Give a man a fish, you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, you feed him for life." (Yeah, I mangled that slightly...)
This is a DEVELOPERS forum, it always has been and always will be. Without developers, it's no different than Android Central or any other forum.
Ok there wouldnt be anyone giving noobs attitude if they just followed the rules. **** they even make you watch a video b4 becoming a member here. If you have a question chances are someone has already asked/answered it. There is a search bar for a reason. USE IT! If not the by all means go ahead and post Im 100% sure you wont get **** for it. They even have a suggested thread dropdown when creating a new one, hoping someone sees that there has already been a threat opened pertaining to that particular subject. Its frustrating to other uzers who read these fourms day in and day out seeing some kid with one post asking the same question someone had already posted 3 times now. simply put quit being lazy and search just like everyone else here has b4 they asked a question.
Shammyh said:
The reason is that XDA is traditionally a DEVELOPER forum. Not a CONSUMER forum.
Yes, the original purpose of XDA has expanded, however back in the day, this site was mostly focused on technical issues. Rather than asking a simple and probably already answered question, *everyone* searched and searched again to find an answer. And if that didn't work, it was preferably to PM someone a question over starting a whole thread titled: "X thing that I'm trying to do doesn't work. Please help me!!! Sorry I'm a n00b!!!"".
There are no "stupid" question per se (though really, some folks around here push that boundary to its absolute limit), but there are plenty of already answered questions floating around. Even the OP's question/comment has been addressed millions of times before around here. Experienced XDA users get annoyed when people ask those same questions over and over again. And even though everyone says "I searched but couldn't find an answer for X", usually that's not really true. They may have quickly tried a single search term in the Vbulletin search, then probably gave up. They almost certainly haven't read the official XDA rules, and certainly haven't tried creative ways of finding the answer they are looking for.
This IS A DEVELOPER COMMUNITY. If you can't be bothered to try more than a few minutes of searching, then you are lazy, and it's not really worth the time of others to respond. Hence the flaming, and the anger, and the people attacking n00bs for already-answered questions. This is not a "community support forum" for those people who just picked up a new device and what to "r00tz that ****z" so they can play pirated games and tether for free. This is a community for people to work together on technical aspects of our amazing devices, and squeeze every drop of power from the silicon/glass/plastic devices we all love so much. Yes, people are people, not everyone will search properly, and yes, the majority user-base of XDA has changed a lot over the past 3-4 years. That doesn't mean you can just do whatever you want and not follow the clearly posted XDA rules. And it doesn't mean you have the right to post threads of "OMFG I can't believe how mean all these people who donate their time for free to the community are". Get over it. If you want to idly chat and whine about this that and the other, there are plenty of other places on the internet to do that. XDA is not the place.
Originally, there was very little hostility around XDA over stupid or silly threads. This was because they were so rare, and were often honest mistakes. I don't want to read about your whining and complaining about people being mean. You're right, I *could* just skip over the thread and not say anything (which, undoubtedly, many folks are given the responses so far). But you posted it in the Galaxy S2 i777 General Forum. This thread has nothing to do with the i777 GS2. Whine elsewhere, or be flamed. That's the long and short of it.
Good luck and welcome to XDA!
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And it's the responses like this that go on this 'better than you' mentality trip that are starting to make it not as enjoyable. It's a crock of crap. XDA wouldn't be as big as it is had it stayed strictly a developer community. And the devs wouldn't get as many donations either. I do agree that there are some that abuse that 'New Thread' button. But in all honesty, the search feature on forums isn't that great. Also, some of the contributing members here didn't start out knowing what they're doing. They aquired that knowledge here. So instead of flaming, giving a [email protected] comment, or telling then how to fix it, why don't more people 'teach them to fish'. I may not know a ton about the SGSII, but I sure try to help anyone I can. I am, however, probably one of the most knowledge people on here when it comes to the automotive field. You can only imagine the crazy stuff people come up with to ask on the auto forums, but I've never just blew them off cause they couldn't find it using search. I've just found it and pointed them the right direction. And if the info isn't out there already, I try to explain to them the mechanics behind it to try to educate them a little more than they already are. I can't stand the ones that just spit out some action to try with no explination as to why to try this or that. At some point, that extra knowledge may come in handy and hopefully save that person some coin on getting their transportation back on the road. So having said that, why don't we all get a long and help each other out? I initialy came here looking for help, but I stuck around because of the great community. I'd hate to see people never come back because of a few people ruining the atmosphere of the community.
bigblue95z said:
And it's the responses like this that go on this 'better than you' mentality trip that are starting to make it not as enjoyable. It's a crock of crap. XDA wouldn't be as big as it is had it stayed strictly a developer community. And the devs wouldn't get as many donations either. I do agree that there are some that abuse that 'New Thread' button. But in all honesty, the search feature on forums isn't that great. Also, some of the contributing members here didn't start out knowing what they're doing. They aquired that knowledge here. So instead of flaming, giving a [email protected] comment, or telling then how to fix it, why don't more people 'teach them to fish'. I may not know a ton about the SGSII, but I sure try to help anyone I can. I am, however, probably one of the most knowledge people on here when it comes to the automotive field. You can only imagine the crazy stuff people come up with to ask on the auto forums, but I've never just blew them off cause they couldn't find it using search. I've just found it and pointed them the right direction. And if the info isn't out there already, I try to explain to them the mechanics behind it to try to educate them a little more than they already are. I can't stand the ones that just spit out some action to try with no explination as to why to try this or that. At some point, that extra knowledge may come in handy and hopefully save that person some coin on getting their transportation back on the road. So having said that, why don't we all get a long and help each other out? I initialy came here looking for help, but I stuck around because of the great community. I'd hate to see people never come back because of a few people ruining the atmosphere of the community.
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Uhh, most of the developers and users here couldn't care less how "big" XDA is. And second, as Entropy512 pointed out, most devs don't care tremendously about donations. Yea, when I really like something, or have some extra cash, I'll kick a developer a few extra bucks. But it's not really about donations or popularity. And I don't think a single Dev here is actually living off of the donations from XDA users...
And further... if you check my post history, you'd see I in fact do try to "teach people to fish" all the time. And more often than not, I'll just answer a n00b question rather than flame. And yes, the Forum search isn't the best, hence why a Google "site:xda-developers.com YourSearchTermHere" is a useful alternative.
XDA is not a n00b friendly forum. If you're a new user looking to learn about Android or phones or whatever for the first time... there are other places to do that. It's called "xda-DEVELOPERS" for a reason.
Devs have holier that thou attitudes. They act like they shouldn't be bothered by stupid nub questions. Yet they feel compelled to answer them and ***** about doing so...
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using xda premium
use the search function and this will not happen.
/thread
I come to xda for informed discussion about a device and for device development. I don't know what has happened to these forums, but I do have a few humble suggestions:
1. If you don't have a prime / aren't expecting one / looking to get one / involved in development LEAVE. Go troll elsewhere. It has become too difficult to find useful posts because of all of the BS in this forum. The sheer volume of it is frankly shocking. I don't blame the mod because I know he mods several forums (including my old haunt the mesmerize forum) and you know probably has like a job and ****. Cleaning the amount of crap going on right now is enough to two full time jobs.
2. No offense-actually **** that- every offense intended- if you are debating between this and an iOS device, this is not the forum for you. I'm not saying don't get the prime. I'm sure its just as good for newbies as it is for others, but the very fact that you are considering an iOS device as a prime alternative proves to me that you are in the wrong place. I'm not saying the prime is free of defects or anything-it certainly has its quirks. But half the fun of Linux and open source is the quirks and that you can change anything about your device. Customization and quirks are at the core of Linux.
3. Notice the word developers in the URL of this site. I'm not a Dev, but I am an IT admin and do at least have a clue of what the **** is going on. Unless things have changed, this forum is for people who have a clue. If "#cat brain | grep -i clue" doesn't at least ring a bell than I might suggest finding a different forum to go newb around in. And its okay to be a newbie, just be a good newbie and read a fukton before you come on this site and start cluttering it up with BS.
4. For the love of all that is holy and good in this world, if you are posting about a topic, use the thread that already ****ing exists. Why are there 13,457,598,568 GPS threads. We get it already. It doesn't ****ing work very well. I am not interested in yet another screenshot of you GPS working or not working. Keep that **** in a single thread for those of you all that like that **** for whatever reason and let the rest of us who don't enjoy the GPS screenshot porn go about the rest of our reading. Are you all aware that there is a feature of this website where you can search and find similar topics? Do you not see the little suggestions when you start a new thread that are put there to avoid redundancy in threads? This goes as well for you tf-70005534 next model people and you wifi ppl whatever.
5. Lastly, I have a humble suggestion: the purpose of this lovely forum as I understand it is much like the forum in ancient Greece: for the free flow of useful information and to offer help and support to our fellow citizens prime. SO IF YOU DONT HAVE ANYTHING INFORMATIVE OR HELPFUL GTFO.
/ rant off
I just couldn't stand it anymore. I can hardly stand to enter the general discussion forum anymore.
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using Tapatalk
Really, this thread needs to closed for all the foul language.
Wow - I sure am glad you are here to make sure all us idiots behave.
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using Tapatalk
Right there in your first line you tell them to go away because this forum is for development. No, this is General. There is a separate forum for dev chat, you should go there if you are wanting dev only.
I get more irritated with these types of threads then the fanatics arguing for and against the prime. Lol
sdelliott31 said:
Really, this thread needs to closed for all the foul language.
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It is only about 1% real profanity by word count. I'm sorry to have scarred your virgin eyes.
quietas said:
Right there in your first line you tell them to go away because this forum is for development. No, this is General. There is a separate forum for dev chat, you should go there if you are wanting dev only.
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Actually, this whole website is for development-minded people. hence the name of the website: xda-DEVELOPERS. not xda-whiners or xda-trollers.
It would be nice to have a helpful civil community with helpful post. Its getting hard to use this forum I feel the OPs pain
Theres better way to express things but it won't be possible until the trolls and newbs clear out
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using xda premium
richaoj said:
It is only about 1% real profanity by word count. I'm sorry to have scarred your virgin eyes.
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"#cat brain | grep -i clue"
Is this geekspeak for"I need a life so I can stop nerd raging to people Ill never meet in forums"?
richaoj said:
Actually, this whole website is for development-minded people. hence the name of the website: xda-DEVELOPERS. not xda-whiners or xda-trollers.
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+10000000000000000
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using xda premium
Actually the forum owners realize that the forum itself has branched out far beyond simple development talk. There are reasons that there is a General, Q&A, Dev, and more for each device. People have questions, concerns, interest in accessories, things that are not appropriate for a strictly development forum. Thus the other subforums.
I you want enforced dev talk only, go to the dev forum. It's policed and threads are killed off that are not on topic.
On the flip side, there are a ton of whiners and complainers and those who complain about them.
g1xx3r said:
"#cat brain | grep -i clue"
Is this geekspeak for"I need a life so I can stop nerd raging to people Ill never meet in forums"?
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No those are basic linux commands, you know linux, the os you use. You have heard of it right?
richaoj said:
No those are basic linux commands, you know linux, the os you use. You have heard of it right?
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Not everyone knows Linux like some guy like you.
I'm sure a lot of people understand their Prime, but aren't worried about the inner workings of the OS that this OS was based on.
How you doin'? Greetings from my GT-I9000!
I agree with pistons, but I think we will have to wait for roms to start. That will weed many out.
Rich, just too heavy handed. I sort of agree with you, I am contemplating returning my prime for some of the valid points but also some of the negativity.
I almost think jerdog would be better wiping out this entire forum and not opening it up for like 72 hours for a cooling down period. Problem is, as much as some want to sweep this stuff under the rug, there are legitimate problems, admitted to by Asus. How crazy it has gotten, wow? It's gotten personal and when things get personal, nobody wants to be the one that listens
richaoj said:
No those are basic linux commands, you know linux, the os you use. You have heard of it right?
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I drive a car but have no idea how to build a transmission..Whats your point?
In general I agree with the op. Could he have used a little less profanity? Of course, but that really isn't the point. The fact that a thread like this even has to exist says that something is hugely wrong with this section. And all you guys wonder why users and devs alike leave this site for less hostile forums. The same thing happened in the thunderbolt forum. The device was hyped beyond belief prior to launch, and when it was finally released it was plagued with problems, the abysmal battery life being the most *****ed about. The entire section filled up with battery threads and things got out of control. People got hostile and overly defensive and the trolls came out of the woodwork. The result was several of the main devs leaving for another site. Things have settled down in the tbolt section since and some of those devs have returned, but none of his happened until the trolls got bored and moved on to another device to ***** about. The same thing will happen with the prime. Eventually there will be new tablets to complain about and this section will be left to those who actually own a prime. Eventually we will be able to use this section as a hotbed of information on how to improve our devices, but until then this section seems to have turned into a dumping zone for GPS threads and people complaining and demanding things. It's quite sad really. I sure how we can come out of this ahead because the way things are going now isn't helping anyone.
Sent from my HTC ThunderBolt using XDA App
You all realize this is a commerce site, right? It's not a public service. The owner has a ton of costs in keeping the site up and offsets those costs (and hopefully makes a profit) through advertising. Therefore, the more users the better. Anyone's welcome to create a new site with different ToU if XDA's no longer meeting their needs. Good luck trying to pay for it and attracting the volume of devs and smart people that contribute to XDA.
XDA has grown over the years and is now the largest and most visited site for mobile technology discussion. It's quoted frequently in the press and, as proven by this very forum, helps hold manufacturers accountable (GPS expose, bootloader unlock). The general section is just that and with XDA coming up at the top of a Google search for newbies looking for answers it's going to become more and more mainstream. And as nice as it would be to discuss an issue once and bury it, each day that new people buy a device they are going to keep resurrecting the issue until it's resolved. Hopefully they'll do a search first.
There's a simple way to have a clean and happy front page. Manufacturers should release products that are finished when they're launched and work the way they're supposed to. That applies to everyone, not just Asus.
g1xx3r said:
I drive a car but have no idea how to build a transmission..Whats your point?
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I bet you know how to turn on the headlights though (a closer analogy). =)
Sent from my GT-I9100
+1 for OP message, I agree.
-1 for delivery.
I have to chuckle a little bit. The OP has, what, 78 posts? Kind of a newb himself... This is the place where people come to learn, you are not expected to know everything, hence the questions. Some are lame but they are always answered one way or the other. I love this site, I learn everyday.
Our Shooter development forum has been a roller coaster ride over the past several weeks. Everything from developers taking their talents elsewhere to the unthinkable (HBoot downgrade) happening. As a fairly new, by XDA standards, member of these amazing forums, I want to know some people's honest opinions on what it will (or might) take to get our development forum back to what it's capable of being. In an ideal situation, we'd be able to have any lost developers come back and be able to share their contributions to our phones without any drama or repercussions for doing so. I mean no harm and I don't want bad feelings or bad memories being brought up, I just want what's best for XDA, XDA's members, and the developers that choose XDA to share their talents. I miss when XDA was fun and I want that back. I know there are many other members and developers out there that want the same.
Also, Moderators, please feel free to lock or delete this thread if it becomes a flame war or we start getting people trolling for no reason and adding nothing to this post. Also, please don't start throwing accusations around and all that. I want this to be a collaborative thought session from anybody who is willing to offer any constructive and positive feedback or ideas.
“To err is human; to forgive, divine” -- Alexander Pope.
mike.r.olson said:
Our Shooter development forum has been a roller coaster ride over the past several weeks. Everything from developers taking their talents elsewhere to the unthinkable (HBoot downgrade) happening. As a fairly new, by XDA standards, member of these amazing forums, I want to know some people's honest opinions on what it will (or might) take to get our development forum back to what it's capable of being. In an ideal situation, we'd be able to have any lost developers come back and be able to share their contributions to our phones without any drama or repercussions for doing so. I mean no harm and I don't want bad feelings or bad memories being brought up, I just want what's best for XDA, XDA's members, and the developers that choose XDA to share their talents. I miss when XDA was fun and I want that back. I know there are many other members and developers out there that want the same.
Also, Moderators, please feel free to lock or delete this thread if it becomes a flame war or we start getting people trolling for no reason and adding nothing to this post. Also, please don't start throwing accusations around and all that. I want this to be a collaborative thought session from anybody who is willing to offer any constructive and positive feedback or ideas.
“To err is human; to forgive, divine” -- Alexander Pope.
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I think all it would take is for people to stop being whinning, ungrateful douche bags. That is all. Devs are getting run off by people who whine and bi**h about every little thing. Everyone needs to realize that these devs are doing this for free and not asking for anything in return. Once everyone can do that and be grateful, I think a lot will change but it will not change everything. Some devs are gone and not coming back. At least gone to the 3D forums.
That's just my feeling on the subject.
Sent from my Anthrax infected 3D!
If I've helped you in any way... hit the "Thanks" button.
Also, here's what I use for reference when I want to know how well a thread can be run. Check out the MIUI thread (http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1271824). Team D3rp has done a fantastic job of making that thread a pleasure to read with even a few laughs here and there. Yeah it gets off topic every once in a while, but that's what FRIENDS do. They cut up and have a good time all while maintaining the same objective.
XDA isn't amazing, it's just the most popular. There are many issues here dealing with maturity, drama, and so on. The developers aren't some gods that should be worshipped and defended no matter what. The problem we have here is that too many people try to speak on behalf of devs, causing a lot of unnecessary drama.
In a perfect world, devs would post their work, and people would use it, figure out what could make it better, and continue from there. But here, if someone says something even a little derogatory towards a developer, they get teamed up on and attacked for it. Even though this is a free thing, and these people aren't paid to do this, they release their work to the public and as such they deserve criticism where needed. I've seen a lot of devs accept such criticism and work with it, but still people feel the need to defend them to the end. Devs aren't perfect, they aren't flawless people. Quite a few of them are attention seekers. People need to stop taking battles into their own hands. They need to realize that it just doesn't help.
There's too much of a focus on being the first to get something done, as well.
I agree that the developers should be subject to and even welcome constructive criticism, as long as it isn't a "THIS ROM SUCKS!!!eleven" kind of useless post. How else would one make their ROM/kernel/mod/theme better without worthwhile feedback? Maybe put a 10/15 word minimum on replies in the development and themes/apps sections?
One of things that drives me nuts is that people don't read the OP, won't even ATTEMPT to search for a solution to a problem, then they ***** & moan in threads like they are entitled to a answer in 2min from posting.
Sent from my PG86100 using xda premium
SketchyStunts said:
One of things that drives me nuts is that people don't read the OP, won't even ATTEMPT to search for a solution to a problem, then they ***** & moan in threads like they are entitled to a answer in 2min from posting.
Sent from my PG86100 using xda premium
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Maybe a larger, more dominant "Search This Post" button?
Perhaps a more larger, dominant brain in their heads?
Odoslané z môjho HTC EVO 3D X515m cez Tapatalk
mike.r.olson said:
I agree that the developers should be subject to and even welcome constructive criticism, as long as it isn't a "THIS ROM SUCKS!!!eleven" kind of useless post. How else would one make their ROM/kernel/mod/theme better without worthwhile feedback? Maybe put a 10/15 word minimum on replies in the development and themes/apps sections?
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some thoughts (basicly what it would take for me to post my work back on XDA again)
specific to the end-users and developers on xda:
..i have no problem is people tell me my work sucks.. but tell me WHY
---seriously, look at my work in the past, a user reported an issue, i busted my ass to fix it the same day the issue was reported, sometimes causing 2-3 releases in the same day
..instead of posting issues in XDA or any other forum, i ask you use my issue tracking site, so i have all the problems in one place, and everyone can see the status and updates of reported issues, including the person who reported it. (i honestly do not read every single post on my threads, i dont have the time... so if you have an issue, and you dont post it on my issue tracking site, dont expect to have it fixed..)
..i do have a problem when people make things personal or accuse anyone of any wrong doing without proof. even if they had proof, it should be done in PM and and not in public forum, or brought to the attention of a Sr. Mod if the PMs are not responed to.
..people should show common courtasy and respect when a developer (or anyone) gives them something for free. if you dont like it, move on....dont troll the developers thread.
..if you do not own the device covered by my thread, dont post in my thread, dont report my thread, dont down-rate my thread. If you do own the device, but dont use my software, the only thing you should be posting in my thread is questions about said software.
..understand ALL developers here are doing you a favor by giving you something for free...they sometimes spend days/weeks on something and just GIVE IT TO YOU
..<MOST> people will treat YOU like you treat THEM, if your an ass, expect to be treated like an ass.
..i dont expect to be treated any different than a non-developer, but i ask for basic respect...is this asking too much?
i know im not the only person on XDA that feels this way, but I am prolly the only one who will speak my mind.
+1 Chad.
That's for giving a developers point of view on the subject.
Also, I agree that developers should not be treated like Gods. They should be given respect for what they do though.
Sent from my Anthrax infected 3D!
If I've helped you in any way... hit the "Thanks" button.
That's the problem of using a forum to organize all of this stuff.
chad.goodman said:
some thoughts (basicly what it would take for me to post my work back on XDA again)
specific to the end-users and developers on xda:
..i have no problem is people tell me my work sucks.. but tell me WHY
---seriously, look at my work in the past, a user reported an issue, i busted my ass to fix it the same day the issue was reported, sometimes causing 2-3 releases in the same day
..instead of posting issues in XDA or any other forum, i ask you use my issue tracking site, so i have all the problems in one place, and everyone can see the status and updates of reported issues, including the person who reported it. (i honestly do not read every single post on my threads, i dont have the time... so if you have an issue, and you dont post it on my issue tracking site, dont expect to have it fixed..)
..i do have a problem when people make things personal or accuse anyone of any wrong doing without proof. even if they had proof, it should be done in PM and and not in public forum, or brought to the attention of a Sr. Mod if the PMs are not responed to.
..people should show common courtasy and respect when a developer (or anyone) gives them something for free. if you dont like it, move on....dont troll the developers thread.
..if you do not own the device covered by my thread, dont post in my thread, dont report my thread, dont down-rate my thread. If you do own the device, but dont use my software, the only thing you should be posting in my thread is questions about said software.
..understand ALL developers here are doing you a favor by giving you something for free...they sometimes spend days/weeks on something and just GIVE IT TO YOU
..<MOST> people will treat YOU like you treat THEM, if your an ass, expect to be treated like an ass.
..i dont expect to be treated any different than a non-developer, but i ask for basic respect...is this asking too much?
i know im not the only person on XDA that feels this way, but I am prolly the only one who will speak my mind.
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And hopefully we can get most of this accomplished. As I say in my other forums and it works.
If you see trolls report them, don't feed them. If you ignore them and report them we can get rid of them. If you fight with them we have to sort out who the trolls actually are.
Sent from my PG86100 using xda premium
The problem XDA wide is how aggressive everyone has become. It's not just developers, but users too. I read probably 100 threads every day looking for news stories and here's how it always goes:
1. Developer releases something
1a. Someone starts a thread in, say, General and says something.
2. Trolls
3. Everyone is angry
4. Developers leave.
The 5 things that would at least calm it down.
1. If there's a problem, report it to the mods. Too many regular users are trying to be ma and pa XDA and that causes a lot of problems. You think something is a kang or someone isn't following the rules: report to the mods and present proof. They'll look into it and make a decision. Live with that decision. (affects: users and developers)
2. If you don't like something, stay away from it. So many people post in dev threads for stuff they don't use just to cause problems. If you don't use it or don't like it, then get away from it. (affects: users and developers)
3. Stop demanding things from people. They aren't your slaves, you don't pay them and they don't owe you anything. In the old days, developers worked at their own pace and released things and users were just happy to have em. Now, users seem to have this "I'm entitled" attitude and it's wrong. You don't pay for XDA, ads do (exceptions being XDA Premium App owners and donators...but you guys do it because you love XDA, not because you expect something out of it). You don't pay for development...no one pays for development. It's a hobby to these people and they do it out of the kindness of their hearts. Be happy with what you have, be excited for what you're getting and quit running around like you're all that.
4. I'd say something similar about the developers, but Sora is ma and pa XDA today and took care of that for me.
5. This site is based around development and collaboration, not "you owe me a rom" or "where's our ICS" or "wah wah wah". Collaborating, developing and respecting one another, then things will be much better.
lastly, to those with sanity left...lead by example. This goes to devs and users alike. If you see someone trolling, don't respond to them. If you see someone acting a fool, don't respond to them. If you ignore bullies (even e-bullies), they eventually go away. Gotta stop letting them get under everyone's skin because then it shows that they can get under your skin and they'll keep getting under your skin. Who wants that?!
Good to see Chad still here. Stick around Chad! We got pstevep assigned to the 3D forums now, things are gonna get better!
just started reading in here for not so long, but noticed, that so many users think, the devs HAVE to publish their work, that they HAVE to include everything into a rom.
especially the thing with the camera and stuff on the evo 3d. like the devs have to get it work.
stop whining and shouting. if it's too slow for you guys, start doing it on your own.
in my opinion, if you, users always complaining about stuff, dont stop it, the devs will leave and won't publish any roms. so who's going to miss something? right, just you. the devs have their own roms. maybe they'll they in touch with other devs just talking about their work etc. but if they stop releasing their stuff, nobody will have custom roms any more, except you start programming your own...
so stop it, be happy with the stuff the devs provide and just report bugs, if there are any. or just say something, that may be a good feature of a rom
Besides Joel leaving I think things have been a lot better recently! If I do say so myself.
Joel is a great dev and those who care will follow him. I think people just got frustrated by all his projects but I myself enjoyed following the bleeding edge of his ports. But to each his own.
I believe at some point he will be back until then everybody should just try hard to be nice to eachother so the great devs will have a nice place to come back to.
Sent from my PG86100 using xda premium
This is awesome. Let's keep it going. I love when we can have troll/flame free discussions.
The thing that I don't get is the ones that go out of their way to post crap on people's threads that is useless just to be a smartass, troll or flame. If you don't like the topic, think it's stupid other whatever just move on and don't bother intruding on the persons post and degrading him. I mean what is the point in doing it really? It accomplishes nothing at all and results in another thread closing and why waste the time typing the nonsense in the first place
Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk 2 Beta-2
The first thing i ever noticed about XDA, coming from Villainrom was that the users on XDA had a lot less time for you, I adapted quickly and have had run ins before.
Some people just get shot down in flames for asking a question, whether they're noobs or whether they're just stuck asking a question in a section and getting no responses, it can be hard for someone to get an answer, typically when they're new.
If you want a perfect forum, then create rules, if people don't adhere to those forum rules, then they leave, it's as simple as that.
As for the developers, well this place wouldn't be what it is today without developers, but they do it because they want to, they want to work at making something better and then share it with people, if people have have a question then they should be able to ask away.
Some of the OPS don't have a lot of info in them either, if someone asks about something which is quite clearly in the OP then they should get face palmed i get that, but not if they don't understand something and didn't want to spend an hour trudging through 300 pages to find an answer, then someone sarcastically turns around to them and says "Use the search button DOH" or USE SEARCH ----> or something which you'd expect from a spoilt kid.
Plus the search function isn't the best on XDA, sometimes it just doesn't work.
Myself, i think the one thing which has scared all the dev's off is the 3d, no one has been able to crack that yet (on the newer roms), if it were a single camera and it wasn't 3d, i think it would be more popular than the sensation.
mike.r.olson said:
Our Shooter development forum has been a roller coaster ride over the past several weeks. Everything from developers taking their talents elsewhere to the unthinkable (HBoot downgrade) happening. As a fairly new, by XDA standards, member of these amazing forums, I want to know some people's honest opinions on what it will (or might) take to get our development forum back to what it's capable of being. In an ideal situation, we'd be able to have any lost developers come back and be able to share their contributions to our phones without any drama or repercussions for doing so. I mean no harm and I don't want bad feelings or bad memories being brought up, I just want what's best for XDA, XDA's members, and the developers that choose XDA to share their talents. I miss when XDA was fun and I want that back. I know there are many other members and developers out there that want the same. ...
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The short answer, IMHO, is to have more people on here learning how to develop and contribute than just using and requesting features. The respect and entitlement issues a lot of people attribute to XDA are also far from being unique to this site, they're issues with the Android community as a whole.
There are far too many people who would rather just throw money out there to anyone who can make their phone do cool ****, and, while there is absolutely nothing wrong with donating to someone for their time, when you start putting it out there too much you get people whose only concern is hustling others out of money and the whole open source model collapses.
edit: As others have also mentioned, if you see something disprespectful, innappropriate or you don't think it belongs in your thread, etc., please hit the little triangle on the top right of the post and report it. On a site with this much traffic it's impossible to see everything that goes on and you all would be shocked if you knew about some of the stuff that gets by without anyone reporting it. It also makes it much easier for us to deal with and recognize those who have a habit of causing trouble.
The number of stickies in this forum is just insane. I think we should create a roll up sticky to include all the stickies in this forum so it doesn't get cluttered with too much information.
Here's an example:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=1096
I'll look into it.
Sent from my CM7 Atrix.
I personally mentioned this before as well. Would be much apreciated.
Too many stickies are annoying.
Would suggest three roll-up stickies,
. Super-sticky (always on top): READ THIS FIRST! MODERATION AND YOU!
This would subsume the "New Forum Mod", "Questions posted in General...", "Operation Iron Fist"
. Sticky: Official Asus Threads
All threads started by Gary Key
. Sticky: Guides and How-Tos
All help threads
Suggest unsticky the "GPS Dongle" thread, as well as the outdated "Come to #Asus-Transformer..." thread.
pileot said:
I personally mentioned this before as well. Would be much apreciated.
Too many stickies are annoying.
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for me too many threads on dongles and 300 are the most annoying. i say get rid of all 300 related threads. its not a prime and this is prime forum. if anything, stick all those threads in the OG transformer section aka tf-101, since that is what the 300 replaced. or move them all to the QnA section.
the sticky threads aren't the problem. the problem is 300 threads and complaint threads that new people make instead of just posting in a thread that already addresses that issue. people not using search at all.
A simple roll up sticky thread would do the trick as well as an active mod who locks down those threads as they pop up.
Conferring with other Forum Mods before I make the roll up sticky.
&
I "officially" requested a TF300T forum.
Swiftks said:
I "officially" requested a TF300T forum.
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thank youuuuuu....lets get these 300 owners up outta here.
Swiftks said:
Conferring with other Forum Mods before I make the roll up sticky.
&
I "officially" requested a TF300T forum.
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Thanks dude.
Sent from my tf9001 with XDA XD.
+1 on forum clean up And then some new update that finally fixes the software issues and working NVflash. I see great times coming!
Excellent idea. Make this a stickie.
Will be doing the roll up sticky idea in the AM.
Sent from my CM7 Atrix.
pileot said:
A simple roll up sticky thread would do the trick as well as an active mod who locks down those threads as they pop up.
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If you see any wrong threads that need to be closed or moved, just report them. That's the fastest way to notify mod.
Sent from my HTC One X
This is a great idea. While you're there could you delete a few of the threads that contain nothing but moaning and complaining lol . I'm actually pretty happy with my Prime, apart from the crappy way ASUS did the bootlaoder unlock (NVFlash will make me a lot happier though if that actually materializes). But a trip in to the General forum generally leaves me pretty depressed. Can't you put something at the top that says "Apparently a lot of people have not being having great RMA experiences, please stop posting about it"!?
paddycr said:
This is a great idea. While you're there could you delete a few of the threads that contain nothing but moaning and complaining lol . I'm actually pretty happy with my Prime, apart from the crappy way ASUS did the bootlaoder unlock (NVFlash will make me a lot happier though if that actually materializes). But a trip in to the General forum generally leaves me pretty depressed. Can't you put something at the top that says "Apparently a lot of people have not being having great RMA experiences, please stop posting about it"!?
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If we're removing such threads... can we remove the:
1. Asus, Nvidia, and Transformer Prime are simply the best in the World thread.
it won't happen. no one wants to see repeated complaint threads that could've easily been put into existing threads already on the issue. people had 5 months worth of complaint threads. its time prime forum move in a different direction. we already heard the gripes. no reason to keep trying to shove it down peoples throats. we already heard them the first time. its mostly the same people repeatedly posting the same complaints almost daily. if people used search more, there wouldn't be as many of those threads.
The Positive Movement has already begun. People want to come here to learn more about their device and be in a positive atmosphere. Possible issues with device is important also. But 20 different complaint threads on same issue is far from needed. Maybe some like forum to seem depressing but I'm sure most don't. As proof is shown from outrage against constant complaints or gripes. I see it all the time up here now.
If its not some new issue that's never been reported before, a new thread shouldn't need to be made about it. or stick it in QnA section at least. Post about it in an existing thread already. SEARCH box is a powerful tool.
demandarin said:
it won't happen. no one wants to see repeated complaint threads that could've easily been put into existing threads already on the issue.people had 5 months worth of complaint threads. its time prime forum move in a different direction.we already heard the gripes. no reason to keep trying to shove it down peoples throats. we already heard them the first time.
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- I think most do not want to see repeated threads PERIOD! (negative or positive)
demandarin said:
its mostly the same people repeatedly posting the same complaints almost daily.
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- same goes for the ones defending the primes
demandarin said:
if people used search more, there wouldn't be as many of those threads.
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-agreed... see my first comment
demandarin said:
The Positive Movement has already begun. People want to come here to learn more about their device and be in a positive atmosphere.
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- this includes learning all about their "issues"
demandarin said:
Possible issues with device is important also. But 20 different complaint threads on same issue is far from needed.
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-agreed...see first comment above
demandarin said:
Maybe some like forum to seem depressing but I'm sure most don't. As proof is shown from outrage against constant complaints or gripes. I see it all the time up here now.
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-just ASUS sleeping in the bed they made for themselves.. sorry to be so insensitive to your feelings.
demandarin said:
If its not some new issue that's never been reported before, a new thread shouldn't need to be made about it. or stick it in QnA section at least. Post about it in an existing thread already. SEARCH box is a powerful tool.
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-goes for ALL posts, not just the "issue" ones..see my first comment.
Perharps members should just post anything negative in a positive way just to appease this "The Positive Movement"
Roll Up Sticky Created.
Threads / Posts will be edited or deleted if they violate the XDA Rules.
micaman said:
- I think most do not want to see repeated threads PERIOD! (negative or positive)
- same goes for the ones defending the primes
-agreed... see my first comment
- this includes learning all about their "issues"
-agreed...see first comment above
-just ASUS sleeping in the bed they made for themselves.. sorry to be so insensitive to your feelings.
-goes for ALL posts, not just the "issue" ones..see my first comment.
Perharps members should just post anything negative in a positive way just to appease this "The Positive Movement"
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Click to collapse
I think these are good points by both of you. I find myself spending hardly any time in the general forum these days since the repeated posts (both positive and negative) and constant trolling just makes it boring. Personally, I do find the repeated negative posts more annoying since each makes me worried about my $650 investment!
micaman said:
- I think most do not want to see repeated threads PERIOD! (negative or positive)
- same goes for the ones defending the primes
-agreed... see my first comment
- this includes learning all about their "issues"
-agreed...see first comment above
-just ASUS sleeping in the bed they made for themselves.. sorry to be so insensitive to your feelings.
-goes for ALL posts, not just the "issue" ones..see my first comment.
Perharps members should just post anything negative in a positive way just to appease this "The Positive Movement"
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Click to collapse
agreed but problem more so with redundant complaint threads on same issue. redundant threads on something good is far n few.
MORAL & POINT IS: People need to use search box more. Redundant threads, whether positive or negative is clutter. post in thread already made on the issue unless its something new. New threads, whether positive or negative, is not needed if there is already an existing thread on that same issue or subject. Once this happens, the backlash will cease against those redundant complaint threads or even positive ones.
---------- Post added at 12:31 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:29 PM ----------
paddycr said:
I think these are good points by both of you. I find myself spending hardly any time in the general forum these days since the repeated posts (both positive and negative) and constant trolling just makes it boring. Personally, I do find the repeated negative posts more annoying since each makes me worried about my $650 investment!
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I agree. especially with your last sentence
I see a lot of people complaining about complaint threads getting closed. While I can understand the frustration of you wanting to get your voice heard only to have it shut down by "The Man" I ask that you all think of it like this. It's tough for the mods to constantly have to clean up the forum especially when most of the threads are complaint threads complaining about the same issues time and time again.
All of the complaints SHOULD be in one thread. Maybe it was both a blessing and a mistake for Asus to start posting here because now it seems that this sub section is no longer the "Prime General" section. It has turned into almost an official complaint forum where people think Asus is constantly monitoring every thread and every post.
Think of how frustrating it is for the mods here to have to constantly close duplicate threads that might bury other useful threads. So like Diamondback said. We all want answers, but filling up this forum with the same stuff is counter productive. if anything go start a million different threads on the Asus forums.. Give their mods more work to do, not ours. So all I'm asking is that before you ***** about your thread being closed try to look at it from a different angle. This isnt the official Asus support forum nor is it the complaint desk. 1 thread maybe 2 at most, 1 for all the "We want answers" stuff and maybe one for all the "Rma Nightmare" stuff. It's much easier to pass off one or two links to asus and be like "here, these are all the issues, we want answers" instead of bombarding them with countless threads. Dont you think if they saw a 100+ page thread of people having the same issues it would have more of an impact than 100 small threads? I really do think a better strategy would be to fill up the Asus forums as much as possible with the stuff that gets closed here
Just my 2 cents, now back to our regularly scheduled programming
I agree that duplicate complaint threads have gotten excessive and that they tend to clutter up the forum. However it might be beneficial to have a thread dedicated to each major issue. For instance one each for problems with WiFi, Random Reboots, GPS, etc.
And of course we need for people posting in those threads to stay on topic. It is really frustrating trying to find information on an issue only to get a few pages into a thread and see that it has degenerated into a series of flame & troll posts.
As much as people dislike their threads being closed, look at it from the other side: a lot of people come here looking for info and 10 threads on the same subject, and unhelpful inflammatory posts not only make it harder for people to find the info they need, but it makes them not want to come back and contribute.
Anyway that is just my 2¢.
Yeah but nothing is said when such threads are full of get well soon Gary, Asus is great, prime is best tablet ever and other posts along them lines. These posts are far less relevant than the complaints but we can fill forum as much as we like with I love asus type threads.
What happened to freedom of speach? this is supposed to be open forum good & bad points discussed
As I see it the moderation here has got so pro Asus I thought I was on Asus official forum.
Oh well I guess this thread will be closed now because I have stated my honest opinion and it aint pro asus. I will add again I have no probs with my prime, no reboots etc but I do feel those with probs are being treat unfairly
almightywhacko said:
I agree that duplicate complaint threads have gotten excessive and that they tend to clutter up the forum. However it might be beneficial to have a thread dedicated to each major issue. For instance one each for problems with WiFi, Random Reboots, GPS, etc.
And of course we need for people posting in those threads to stay on topic. It is really frustrating trying to find information on an issue only to get a few pages into a thread and see that it has degenerated into a series of flame & troll posts.
As much as people dislike their threads being closed, look at it from the other side: a lot of people come here looking for info and 10 threads on the same subject, and unhelpful inflammatory posts not only make it harder for people to find the info they need, but it makes them not want to come back and contribute.
Anyway that is just my 2¢.
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Series of flame & troll posts... I don't think that's possible with Transformer Prime. You have to take Transformer Prime's performance into account.. which has been... extremely diverse. I can make an argument that each device performs differently to each individual (ranging from satisfaction to extreme hate). This only leads to flame & trolling from both side of the fence...
While I do understand the point of threads being closed, consider that nothing with PRIME is definite (it acts way too wildly)... & we aren't exactly getting valuable information on the issue.... it's even difficult to pinpoint the reason for all the issue. This only leads to vague, general, and ultimately... "hypothesis/guesses" complaint threads.
If a "thread" gets hot & all the flame/troll leads to that one section.. why not just let that thread live on? It's going to be impossible to censor every thread nor can each individual really contribute in existing "complaint" threads already because everything is vague & just too many issue with Prime to count. Each "issue" deserves its own thread (by some individual), however.. each issue all leads or are connected to one another... & that ultimately will become an endless loop of off-topic discussion.
Edit: Btw, I am one of the biggest critic towards Asus... but I don't understand all the hate for delay in f/w update compared to OG Transformer & Pad 300. Yes, beta has been out for a while.. and yes... we can assume that it is being delayed due to bugs being found. If so, it means they have acknowledge the bugs & are working towards rectifying the issue. We all know that Prime has issues, which likely means it'll take longer with f/w compared to other devices. Judge the f/w update once it is released..... No reason to haste an unfinished f/w & compound more issue on already very unstable device.
Actually wouldn't have made sense to post this in the new complaint thread instead of creating a new thread?
almightywhacko said:
I agree that duplicate complaint threads have gotten excessive and that they tend to clutter up the forum. However it might be beneficial to have a thread dedicated to each major issue. For instance one each for problems with WiFi, Random Reboots, GPS, etc.
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good points in your entire post but i wanted to stress this part in bold. we already have dedicated threads to each of those issues basically. we also have a super thread with all of them in there. has links, info and everything.
point moderator and others are stressing is that a new thread doesn't need to made for an already existing issue which there's already a dedicated thread for. Plain & simple. Moderators trying to free general section from excess clutter.
You don't see people starting new threads based on get well Gary, Asus is the best, or whatever b.s. that other poster said. Keep it to the existing threads. If people would more so do that, then everything would be fine. Do like the OP said. Take the complaints to an Official Asus forum or something to be heard. Several small complaint threads wont be as powerful as a few big ones.
Complaints are completely valid and accepted BUT they need to go into the corresponding thread. which is why XDA stresses using the search function before you think of creating a new thread. because 9 times out of 10, someone has already created a thread on it. Then you can post your viewpoints in that thread. We have several complaints threads that cover all bases and haven't been closed down & left open. Use those threads unless you have something new never seen before here.
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shinzz said:
Edit: Btw, I am one of the biggest critic towards Asus... but I don't understand all the hate for delay in f/w update compared to OG Transformer & Pad 300. Yes, beta has been out for a while.. and yes... we can assume that it is being delayed due to bugs being found. If so, it means they have acknowledge the bugs & are working towards rectifying the issue. We all know that Prime has issues, which likely means it'll take longer with f/w compared to other devices. Judge the f/w update once it is released..... No reason to haste an unfinished f/w & compound more issue on already very unstable device.
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agreed
demandarin said:
good points in your entire post but i wanted to stress this part in bold. we already have dedicated threads to each of those issues basically. we also have a super thread with all of them in there. has links, info and everything.
point moderator and others are stressing is that a new thread doesn't need to made for an already existing issue which there's already a dedicated thread for. Plain & simple. Moderators trying to free general section from excess clutter.
You don't see people starting new threads based on get well Gary, Asus is the best, or whatever b.s. that other poster said. Keep it to the existing threads. If people would more so do that, then everything would be fine. Do like the OP said. Take the complaints to an Official Asus forum or something to be heard. Several small complaint threads wont be as powerful as a few big ones.
Complaints are completely valid and accepted BUT they need to go into the corresponding thread. which is why XDA stresses using the search function before you think of creating a new thread. because 9 times out of 10, someone has already created a thread on it. Then you can post your viewpoints in that thread. We have several complaints threads that cover all bases and haven't been closed down & left open. Use those threads unless you have something new never seen before here.
---------- Post added at 10:27 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:24 AM ----------
agreed
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Eh, not exactly true. That and I personally don't see any issue with directing all "complaints" in OFFICIAL ASUS thread. If all complaints, flames & trolls are being active in one thread.. it actually helps MODS.
shinzz said:
Series of flame & troll posts... I don't think that's possible with Transformer Prime. You have to take Transformer Prime's performance into account.. which has been... extremely diverse. I can make an argument that each device performs differently to each individual (ranging from satisfaction to extreme hate). This only leads to flame & trolling from both side of the fence...
While I do understand the point of threads being closed, consider that nothing with PRIME is definite (it acts way too wildly)... & we aren't exactly getting valuable information on the issue.... it's even difficult to pinpoint the reason for all the issue. This only leads to vague, general, and ultimately... "hypothesis/guesses" complaint threads.
If a "thread" gets hot & all the flame/troll leads to that one section.. why not just let that thread live on? It's going to be impossible to censor every thread nor can each individual really contribute in existing "complaint" threads already because everything is vague & just too many issue with Prime to count. Each "issue" deserves its own thread (by some individual), however.. each issue all leads or are connected to one another... & that ultimately will become an endless loop of off-topic discussion .
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Issues with the Prime aside, I have personally seen threads that start with people asking for help that within two pages turn into nothing but personal attacks and comments about the other person's parentage. These kinds of posts are explicitly prohibited in the XDA rules you agree to follow when you create your account.
As for problems that don't have definitive causes or solutions, if you don't have anything really valuable you add you should not even bother to post a comment in that thread. Just like in real life some people need to learn how to filter what they chose to say in a particular conversation.
I don't think that there are many new issues coming up, at latest it doesn't seem that way from my daily reading in these forums. Most posts seem to be talking about issues that have been discussed at least once already. Another XDA rule is search before you post. It is better to revive an older post on an issue that is affecting you than to start a new one because then all the info is in one spot which makes searching easier.
If you search for info on an issue and find no previous posts regarding the same or very similar issue at that point you should enter a new topic.
shinzz said:
Eh, not exactly true. That and I personally don't see any issue with directing all "complaints" in OFFICIAL ASUS thread. If all complaints, flames & trolls are being active in one thread.. it actually helps MODS.
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i see your point. If they all directed to an Official Asus complaint thread that's fine and would be welcomed. but Not their update thread on future info/products/updates/or new Asus personnel coming to help. there is a difference
almightywhacko said:
Issues with the Prime aside, I have personally seen threads that start with people asking for help that within two pages turn into nothing but personal attacks and comments about the other person's parentage. These kinds of posts are explicitly prohibited in the XDA rules you agree to follow when you create your account.
As for problems that don't have definitive causes or solutions, if you don't have anything really valuable you add you should not even bother to post a comment in that thread. Just like in real life some people need to learn how to filter what they chose to say in a particular conversation.
I don't think that there are many new issues coming up, at latest it doesn't seem that way from my daily reading in these forums. Most posts seem to be talking about issues that have been discussed at least once already. Another XDA rule is search before you post. It is better to revive an older post on an issue that is affecting you than to start a new one because then all the info is in one spot which makes searching easier.
If you search for info on an issue and find no previous posts regarding the same or very similar issue at that point you should enter a new topic.
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Relatively speaking, we haven't found a solution or exactly found the "cause" for all issues since launch (excluding GPS dongle). However, we have seen increase in new "issue" since launch (gaming issue.. I/O issue.. blah blah blah). At this current time, we're all relatively coming up with hypothesis to find the cause for all the issue. Can't solve an issue without knowing the cause. However, we can't find the cause without "quantitative" data .... & all the complaints in Prime's case.. is the data. Each Prime acts differently from one another and each complaint should be taken into account.... thus, they are contributing.
I do agree on the aspect of immature behavior. But that's also the nature of public forum, and that whole "immaturity" also begins with both sides of the fence trying to defend their cause & completely going off-topic. Until we actually find "cause/reason" for all the issue... my guess is that it'll only continue. We're all trying to be productive & move forward with Prime.... but it's extremely difficult with the current situation...
demandarin said:
i see your point. If they all directed to an Official Asus complaint thread that's fine and would be welcomed. but Not their update thread on future info/products/updates/or new Asus personnel coming to help. there is a difference
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How so? All other OFFICIAL Asus threads are inactive & why must we care about future product news from Asus? This is a public forum, however.. Asus open the wounds by creating OFFICIAL thread (even if it is just for announcement). If other OFFICIAL threads are inactive, it's only natural & logical to go towards an active post..... I don't understand the logic of why we have to cater towards Asus. If a lack of announcement or poor customer service is being made.... I see relevancy in posting in a thread that's about Asus announcement as the person didn't receive such "update" from the announcement.
We're complaining that certain "issue" threads aren't being productive or helpful. Official announcement threads aren't exactly the thread to talk details about issues & how to solve it. Nor are the PR Asus guys from engineering/dev dept. of Asus.. thus, they aren't exactly going to be helpful in that regard. Why not just let all the "*****ing" & cat fight go into that section....... Seems like the most logical place to be.
shinzz said:
Relatively speaking, we haven't found a solution or exactly found the "cause" for all issues since launch (excluding GPS dongle). However, we have seen increase in new "issue" since launch (gaming issue.. I/O issue.. blah blah blah). At this current time, we're all relatively coming up with hypothesis to find the cause for all the issue. Can't solve an issue without knowing the cause. However, we can't find the cause without "quantitative" data .... & all the complaints in Prime's case.. is the data. Each Prime acts differently from one another and each complaint should be taken into account.... thus, they are contributing.
I do agree on the aspect of immature behavior. But that's also the nature of public forum, and that whole "immaturity" also begins with both sides of the fence trying to defend their cause & completely going off-topic. Until we actually find "cause/reason" for all the issue... my guess is that it'll only continue. We're all trying to be productive & move forward with Prime.... but it's extremely difficult with the current situation...
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I am not saying people shouldn't post info or ask questions, I am just saying people shouldn't start new threads without looking for threads that might already be discussing problems similar to their own. I think we all see that this specific behavior happens a lot.
There is no excuse at all for personal attacks. NONE.
If two people cannot agree or provide strong supportive evidence in favor of their arguments they should just agree to disagree. If they are trying to help resolve an issue their is no harm in trying multiple solutions to find one that works. If they are just trying to forward their own unsupported opinion or they just have a fanboy crush on one hardware company or another they should leave XDA unless they have something more to add to the community.
I've seen other forums where they created an "Official RMA issues" type thread that had been successful in keeping posts consolidated. The problem is that threads in XDA seem to be "My RMA experience ..." so each is unique. If we started an "official" thread for each of the major issues it could be better controlled. May be just semantics, but we know the major topics and should establish and enforce some structure. I think the "Browser not responding" is a good example of this.
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using XDA
I just received the newest of the new Primes, a C4O 64gb, haven't seen anyone posting about these, but my new Prime has 2 stuck pixels, trying to unstick them now, but I'm not hopeful.
I apologize for opening a new complaint thread last night. Alcohol was involved, and I'm just getting cranky. No disrespect to the mods.
demandarin said:
You don't see people starting new threads based on get well Gary, Asus is the best, or whatever b.s. that other poster said. Keep it to the existing threads. If people would more so do that, then everything would be fine. Do like the OP said. Take the complaints to an Official Asus forum or something to be heard. Several small complaint threads wont be as powerful as a few big ones.
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As that other poster (me) didn't say new threads were being started, I said nothing was said about the get well, Asus is great etc type of posts yet complaints were a no no. Take the unofficial /official thread it was closed after 214 pages nothing was said to the glad your here gary, get well soon posts ( which was totally off topic ) infact you thanked most yet when some started to use thread to complain about lack of & quality of updates ( which to me was on topic ) thread got closed. Pro Asus or what ?
Well, this thread obviously needs to be closed. But before that happens, I do wish to make few corrections.
1. We don't have a dedicated thread to all "existing" issues. Some are lumped together, some completely ignored/deleted/closed due to being a "minority" issue and etc. Issue such as WIFI performance (ahh.. the complicated & varying degree of performance with WIFI) isn't even acknowledged by Asus (as you can see, we have no Official thread from Asus for that as it works to their "standard").
2. We have seen Asus, Tegra, Nvidia and etc is the best thread & post. I don't think I have to go further into this.....
3. We have an official ASUS PR person in this forum creating official thread. I still don't see an issue to vent/voice be heard in such thread. Plus, we can take the same approach with.. "if you want to praise Asus, simply go to OFFICIAL ASUS FORUM".
Also, if GPS history is anything go by.... XDA is a powerful forum.
4. Oh, and lastly.. how nice of you to create a .gif logo/banner as a recognized contributor in your signature. Yes, you certainly aren't active in this forum to be recognized & "stamp your authority" as I have once said in the past. =P
Ahh.. and yea, this is supposed to be a joke/sarcasm.. don't take it too "LITERALLY" either.
flub said:
Yeah but nothing is said when such threads are full of get well soon Gary, Asus is great, prime is best tablet ever and other posts along them lines. These posts are far less relevant than the complaints but we can fill forum as much as we like with I love asus type threads.
What happened to freedom of speach? this is supposed to be open forum good & bad points discussed
As I see it the moderation here has got so pro Asus I thought I was on Asus official forum.
Oh well I guess this thread will be closed now because I have stated my honest opinion and it aint pro asus. I will add again I have no probs with my prime, no reboots etc but I do feel those with probs are being treat unfairly
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Pro Asus? Really? Last time I checked we had way more threads and topics and such about other devices than Asus. But maybe I should check again....
I am correct. I used to be the forum moderator in this section, and I can tell you for a fact that plenty of junk was dealt with from the "OMG ASUS I WANT TO HAVE YOUR BABY!" threads/posts to the "OMG ASUS YOU SUCK A DONKEY'S TOE!".
shinzz said:
Series of flame & troll posts... I don't think that's possible with Transformer Prime. You have to take Transformer Prime's performance into account.. which has been... extremely diverse. I can make an argument that each device performs differently to each individual (ranging from satisfaction to extreme hate). This only leads to flame & trolling from both side of the fence...
While I do understand the point of threads being closed, consider that nothing with PRIME is definite (it acts way too wildly)... & we aren't exactly getting valuable information on the issue.... it's even difficult to pinpoint the reason for all the issue. This only leads to vague, general, and ultimately... "hypothesis/guesses" complaint threads.
If a "thread" gets hot & all the flame/troll leads to that one section.. why not just let that thread live on? It's going to be impossible to censor every thread nor can each individual really contribute in existing "complaint" threads already because everything is vague & just too many issue with Prime to count. Each "issue" deserves its own thread (by some individual), however.. each issue all leads or are connected to one another... & that ultimately will become an endless loop of off-topic discussion.
Edit: Btw, I am one of the biggest critic towards Asus... but I don't understand all the hate for delay in f/w update compared to OG Transformer & Pad 300. Yes, beta has been out for a while.. and yes... we can assume that it is being delayed due to bugs being found. If so, it means they have acknowledge the bugs & are working towards rectifying the issue. We all know that Prime has issues, which likely means it'll take longer with f/w compared to other devices. Judge the f/w update once it is released..... No reason to haste an unfinished f/w & compound more issue on already very unstable device.
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shinzz said:
Eh, not exactly true. That and I personally don't see any issue with directing all "complaints" in OFFICIAL ASUS thread. If all complaints, flames & trolls are being active in one thread.. it actually helps MODS.
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THIS.
flub said:
OMG
That has no place here its not Pro Asus, You won't get thanked for it. But I will thank you for Valid points you raised even though
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You are illustrating the subjective nature of experiences. You don't like anyone talking about how great ASUS might be due to your experience, but you are ok with talking about how terrible they are. You can't have it both ways.
Realize that Moderators are to take ALL things into consideration before acting instead of looking at one post and saying "OMG THIS ID10T NEEDS TO STOP POSTING".
flub said:
Amazing contribution that above post was Demandarin you certainly earned your award there
I thought personal attacks was a no no because that certainly reads like one to me.
Infact I would go so far to say certain users here are bordering on bullying
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No , its not.Its bravado , with some chest thumping thrown in
He got called out, and had no come back.He used the super tester in the other thread, and pulled out super poster in this one trying to intimidate, neither of the 2 makes any difference, except to him.He certainly doesn't intimidate me, and certainly doesnt change what the prime is right now in its current state.He's extremely worried about his reputation getting tarnished, as you can tell by his response.
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using XDA Premium HD app
You are illustrating the subjective nature of experiences. You don't like anyone talking about how great ASUS might be due to your experience, but you are ok with talking about how terrible they are. You can't have it both ways.
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Jerdog
If you had bothered to read my posts you will have noticed that I have stated more than once that I have had no probs with my prime. Find posts where I have been blatently anti Asus or complained about my Prime
How hard is it to grasp what I am saying....
If its ok for all the pro Asus comments then it should also be ok for the complaints
I am not asking to have it both ways...the Pro camp already has it both ways, I believe in fairness
I am not anti Asus neither Pro Asus personally I could not give a flying fig either way but I do dislike the unfairness shown to those who complain. How many threads been closed in the last couple of weeks, One thread after 214 pages probably half of them sucking up to Asus yet nothing said to them but thread closed because users complained in unofficial/official thread. If you cannot see the unfairness in that.
randalltroy said:
No , its not.Its bravado , with some chest thumping thrown in
He got called out, and had no come back.He used the super tester in the other thread, and pulled out super poster in this one trying to intimidate, neither of the 2 makes any difference, except to him.He certainly doesn't intimidate me, and certainly doesnt change what the prime is right now in its current state.
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using XDA Premium HD app
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Lol keyboard lag,
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using XDA Premium HD app