Hi everybody.
I have been folowing the development of cm9 by Jokersax for quite some time now. Right now I am using the CM7 RC but I would like to get back to cm9 soon. Since the last update he has been adding a system.img file to flash using fastboot.
My question now is:
Do I only have to flash the system.img and that's it?
fastboot wipe everything and then flash the system.img?
What about a boot.img?
Do I have to flash that too?
I know I could use cwm instead but I would like to understand the fastboot method also...
samiam21 said:
I know I could use cwm instead but I would like to understand the fastboot method also...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Start here >
http://wiki.cyanogenmod.com/wiki/Fastboot
and here >
http://android-dls.com/wiki/index.php?title=Fastboot
Ok. If I only flash the system.img, I will get the cm9 rom running? I don't see anything about boot.img ...
Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk
samiam21 said:
Ok. If I only flash the system.img, I will get the cm9 rom running? I don't see anything about boot.img ...
Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think boot.img is about the kernel?
ri123 said:
I think boot.img is about the kernel?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sure it is
http://wiki.cyanogenmod.com/wiki/Fastboot#Typical_Partition_Layout
scandiun said:
Sure it is
http://wiki.cyanogenmod.com/wiki/Fastboot#Typical_Partition_Layout
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What about fastboot flash zip rom.zip??? Does this need a meta-inf folder?
guys i need to flash a rom cuz i cant use my phone at all.
hi,
i cant enter recovery mode, phone just reboots automatically and when it does it just stays at "why so serious" screen, i get: bootloader err command error !!!, i cant flash a rom with fastboot (i have debugging activated).
i can do nothing with my phone now.
its a htc desire btw.
i need help please.
Thanks!
Lawrence7 said:
its a htc desire btw.
i need help please.
Thanks!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is the Atrix 4G forum................you are in the wrong place!
I'd hate to revive a dead thread here but.. anyone who understands fastboot willing to give me a hand with something?
My Atrix is stuck in boot loop because my battery died during a flash in TWRP. I tried going back into TWRP to recover back to my nandroid backup but TWRP just stays at the splash screen.. I've tried to ash a rom via fastboot update and no dice so far.. any assistance is very much appreciated
EDIT: Found this thread here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1421522 should probably work so mods feel free to delete this post. If I encounter an issue I'll post there/
MewRai95 said:
I'd hate to revive a dead thread here but.. anyone who understands fastboot willing to give me a hand with something?
My Atrix is stuck in boot loop because my battery died during a flash in TWRP. I tried going back into TWRP to recover back to my nandroid backup but TWRP just stays at the splash screen.. I've tried to ash a rom via fastboot update and no dice so far.. any assistance is very much appreciated
EDIT: Found this thread here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1421522 should probably work so mods feel free to delete this post. If I encounter an issue I'll post there/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can try entering recovery mode ( before the splash screen appears ) and wipe cache , wipe dalvik and wipe data, then reboot.
Related
I tried booting various sense and aosp roms, but my phone won't boot past the flying 3d or any other boot animations. Can someone please help? I tried wiping everything. It worked at first but it doesn't now.
I think this belongs in the questions part of the thread.(Im sure a mod might move it) Other than that can you even do a Nandroid restore?
SilverSuperman said:
I think this belongs in the questions part of the thread.(Im sure a mod might move it) Other than that can you even do a Nandroid restore?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i tried that too. I think it has to do something with flashing a bad kernel
Ok in order for anyone to help you more could you please tell which hboot you have, also specify further about your problem. For example: does your phone just freeze at some point or does the bootscreen keep running and never gets past it or is it taking over the world or what?
---------- Post added at 12:08 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:05 AM ----------
Im asking because there has been alot of views on this and ppl just pass it up because its in the wrong section. Dont take offense to this plz. Im sure u knew this due to you have been a member since Oct. 2009
SilverSuperman said:
Ok in order for anyone to help you more could you please tell which hboot you have, also specify further about your problem. For example: does your phone just freeze at some point or does the bootscreen keep running and never gets past it or is it taking over the world or what?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
HB1.5
it keeps freezing at the flying 3d animatio.
I think you should re-post this in the questions and answers part of the thread and leave this one alone. Otherwise theres gonna be ppl that will "flame" you and say that we have a section for questions and answers. Technically of course it doesnt belong here anyways. Just re-post it over there too and for some reason ppl will be more willing to help you.
ok heres your fix
1-take the rom of your choice put in your sd card
2-then take boot.img out of your rom and recovery.img of your choice and place it in android-sdk/platform-tools
(rename recovery u have to recovery.img then place it in android-sdk/platform-tools)
3-if runing widows hold shift and right click then open with command prop
4-then reboot your phone into fastboot (make sure u have fastboot drivers installed)
5- then type this in command prop
fastboot flash boot boot.img
after its done type this
fastboot boot recovery.img
then it will take u into recovery then do all wipes and flash rom of your choice
and enjoy
hope this helps u
sac23 said:
ok heres your fix
1-take the rom of your choice put in your sd card
2-then take boot.img out of your rom and recovery.img of your choice and place it in android-sdk/platform-tools
(rename recovery u have to recovery.img then place it in android-sdk/platform-tools)
3-if runing widows hold shift and right click then open with command prop
4-then reboot your phone into fastboot (make sure u have fastboot drivers installed)
5- then type this in command prop
fastboot flash boot boot.img
after its done type this
fastboot boot recovery.img
then it will take u into recovery then do all wipes and flash rom of your choice
and enjoy
hope this helps u
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can take the boot.img piece out that is not needed. Once you power on phone holding power and volume down, choose fastboot, connect usb, and just do fastboot boot recovery.img this will give you full access and when you flash the rom, it will install kernel and all necessary files.
Sent from my PG86100 using XDA App
He provided the fix for the problem he's having right now. So his steps are correct. Now in the future he'd want to do the
Code:
fastboot boot recovery.img
To help with flashing in the future.
nolimit78 said:
He provided the fix for the problem he's having right now. So his steps are correct. Now in the future he'd want to do the
Code:
fastboot boot recovery.img
To help with flashing in the future.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I didn't think that was needed. What exactly does fastboot flash boot boot.img do?
Sent from my PG86100 using XDA App
There is a limitation with HTC's unlock, recovery does not have permission to write to the boot partition, this is where the kernel goes. What this means is that you can't flash a kernel through the normal recovery. Which also means that you can't flash a ROM that requires a custom kernel. There are two ways that I know of to work around this. One is to just flash the kernel(boot.img) from fastboot, the other, and easier way is to boot recovery from fastboot and just do everything from there.
Sent from my PG86100 using XDA App
is there a way around all of this besides fastboot? or anything i can do in recovery instead?
mariojp said:
is there a way around all of this besides fastboot? or anything i can do in recovery instead?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My 3D is not yet rooted, but you should be able to flash everything you need without a computer. You will need Flash Image GUI, which is found in the market, or can be downloaded via the XDA post. It's JoeyKrim's program.
Here's a stickied thread, over in the Android Dev forum
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1306248
i was able to successfully unlock bootloader, was able to flash a rom successfully, used that rom for a good couple days. then i decided to try a new rom InfectedROM Eternity™ | RLS_1.5 | NIGHTLYS | 3.0 & 3.5 | XE BEATS |(http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1277431&highlight=stock+radio), so i went into recovery, wipe cache, dalvik, factory reset, system. then i flashed the new rom, new rom loaded but stuck in that roms boot screen.
i went back to recovery wiped everything out again, installed the 1st orig rom i installed, now it just loads to the htc boot screen, & every 30sec or so the htc boot screen would go off & come back on. i went to recovery wiped everything again, did nandroid restore, same results, any suggestions?
what im using:
unlocked bootloader
s -on
hboot 1.50
using teamwin recovery v2.0
Just wipe flash a new rom. Should be good to go
reaper24 said:
Just wipe flash a new rom. Should be good to go
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
already tried no luck
flyimages said:
already tried no luck
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Did you apply any tweaks or different kernels? was your kernal that you are on now compatible with the rom that you had put on? The recovery your on, r you on 2.0 or the second releaese of 2.0?
You could try to reflash your recovery and then try to nandroid back. Or try a different kernel and or different rom and go from there. Kind of hard to diagnose bc not sure of exactly what you have done completely. If all else fails, search for the ruu and re apply the original rom and re root.
From my guess, it sounds as something that was applied didn't apply right. Again, not sure on all the details.. I know its not much to go on but good luck on it.
Look at the bright side, your obviously not bricked and if you have to re apply the original and start over, its not that bad. Just a little time out of the afternoon.
only update i did was the rom
tried about 2 more diff roms, still same issue
hmm.. i also choose the "system format" in twrp, would that have done some damage?
Are you using fastboot to boot into recovery? If not, and you're hboot 1.5, then that's your problem.
And wiping system wouldn't cause any issues as long as you flash a new ROM after wiping the system, before you reboot.
Sent from my HTC Evo 3D using Tapatalk
k2buckley said:
Are you using fastboot to boot into recovery? If not, and you're hboot 1.5, then that's your problem.
And wiping system wouldn't cause any issues as long as you flash a new ROM after wiping the system, before you reboot.
Sent from my HTC Evo 3D using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ah ok i manually go into hboot with the down volume + power. did "fastboot reboot-bootloader" into bootloader, wiped out everything & reinstall rom, still same issue.
Try extracting the boot.img from the zip file containing the rom and flashing it with with fastboot binary. If you have S-ON, CWM can't flash the boot partition so you'll get bootloops with any rom that needs a custom initrd.gz. You need to manually flash the boot partition.
flyimages said:
ah ok i manually go into hboot with the down volume + power. doing fastboot into bootloader now, so we'll see.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yea, do adb reboot bootloader, and then do fastboot boot recovery.img.
You will need to make sure that you have a copy of your recovery.img in the folder that you are working out of when you issue the fastboot boot recovery.img command
Sent from my HTC Evo 3D using Tapatalk
k2buckley said:
Yea, do adb reboot bootloader, and then do fastboot boot recovery.img.
You will need to make sure that you have a copy of your recovery.img in the folder that you are working out of when you issue the fastboot boot recovery.img command
Sent from my HTC Evo 3D using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thanks all for the help, the "fastboot flash recovery recovery.img" was pretty much what i was missing!
wow didnt wonder somethin so small could cause something this big, i got everything up & running now!
flyimages said:
thanks all for the help, the "fastboot flash recovery recovery.img" was pretty much what i was missing!
wow didnt wonder somethin so small could cause something this big, i got everything up & running now!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
glad to see your on the up and up
Okay, I'm having the same problem. No matter what I do, I get stuck in a boot loop after installing a rom. Extracting the boot.img and flashing in fastboot doesn't do a thing. My nand backups don't work either (get stuck at restoring boot).
Don't have any problems installing recovery and gaining root. I'm at a loss here. I really want to get my MIUI on!
Mes3 said:
Okay, I'm having the same problem. No matter what I do, I get stuck in a boot loop after installing a rom. Extracting the boot.img and flashing in fastboot doesn't do a thing. My nand backups don't work either (get stuck at restoring boot).
Don't have any problems installing recovery and gaining root. I'm at a loss here. I really want to get my MIUI on!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are you booting your recovery from fastboot? Fastboot boot recovery.img. If not, boot.img won't flash. It's not necessary to flash the boot.img separately, just boot your recovery from fastboot and you'll be good.
Sent from my HTC Evo 3D using Tapatalk
Yup, definitely booting recovery from fastboot.
I had the same problem try to install new recovery VIA fastboot an wipe data/factory reset then flash new ROM u should be all set to go
Sent from EPIC JWOLF 1 using XDA App
ROM here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1277431
I have my HTC EVO 3D, HBoot 1.5 Unlocked using HTC's Method, i would like to know what is the best method Flash the Kernel for "InfectedROM Eternity"... I tried flashing the boot.img after i already flashed the ROM but it kept going to the HTC logo over and over again without booting up.
Any suggestions??
Try flashing the boot.img before flashing the ROM.
Just do this place a copy of your recovery.img in your adb folder
Now while in hboot
use adb
fastboot boot recovery.img
Now wipe everything and flash rom
no need to snag boot img out works every time
Also yes you must wipe everything then adb reboot booloader then fastboot flash boot boot.img
other wise you will bootloop..
reaper24 said:
Just do this place a copy of your recovery.img in your adb folder
Now while in hboot
use adb
fastboot boot recovery.img
Now wipe everything and flash rom
no need to snag boot img out works every time
Also yes you must wipe everything then adb reboot booloader then fastboot flash boot boot.img
other wise you will bootloop..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Okay so what i did last time was Flash the ROM (didn't wipe everything :/)
then try to flash the boot.img
So as long as i wipe everything first this will work?
xRemy said:
Okay so what i did last time was Flash the ROM (didn't wipe everything :/)
then try to flash the boot.img
So as long as i wipe everything first this will work?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just take your recovery your throw it in your adb folder
and
fastboot boot recovery.img
This works better and faster..
Yes if your gonna do it the boot way....
Make sure you wipe then
adb reboot bootloader
fastboot flash boot boot.img
Then flash the rom in recovery...
https://market.android.com/details?id=com.joeykrim.flashimagegui&hl=en
thank me later.
this program basically pulls the kernel out of the rom and flashes it for you, all you have to do is boot into recovery and flash the rom and you're done.
gilbydakid said:
https://market.android.com/details?id=com.joeykrim.flashimagegui&hl=en
thank me later.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lol I don't use it ..
Adb works wonders
reaper24 said:
Lol I don't use it ..
Adb works wonders
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In deed it does, but $.99 for convenience. Hell, why not?
gilbydakid said:
In deed it does, but $.99 for convenience. Hell, why not?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can get the free version of it on here from the guy that made it Same one that is in the market and no ads...................... http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1045797
reaper24 said:
You can get the free version of it on here from the guy that made it Same one that is in the market and no ads...................... http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1045797
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The day $.99 breaks my wallet is the day I shoot myself.
gilbydakid said:
The day $.99 breaks my wallet is the day I shoot myself.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lmao naw im not broke some folks don't have credit cards meaning the OP... So I figured WTH free version works just the same ... Joey even said he would refund you the buck....
gilbydakid said:
https://market.android.com/details?id=com.joeykrim.flashimagegui&hl=en
thank me later.
this program basically pulls the kernel out of the rom and flashes it for you, all you have to do is boot into recovery and flash the rom and you're done.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh already have that, thanks anyway though
Edit: Flashing ROM now, will let you guys know how it goes
Also i got mine for free, downloaded the .apk file
So everything went well, the boot takes a bit of time though but other than that this ROM is sick
Thanks guys
I am using TWRP 2.0 but I can't flash a new ROM. I currently have WARMTWOPOINTTHREE ROM backup, but I tried to flash a new ROM after wiping everything, and when it re-boots it just goes to the white HTC screen and then goes black and just repeats it self over and and over.
so i take the battery out and boot my back up from recovery. what do i need to do to be able to get back to installing whatever ROM i want.
i am a obviously a noob so whatever help anyone can provide will be appreciated.
i was trying to flash the ZR3D 1.2 ROM by the way.
If your phone is a gsm version try this rom:http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1267131
I just installed it on my evo 3d and works smooth
no its CDMA
I would go to Cwm 4.0 for recovery had nothing but issues using the latest twrp . Worked fine for awhile then it didn't wipe right to causing weird issues . Funky things after the rom flashed .
Sent from my PG86100 using xda premium
need more info in regards to how you flashed your rom but at this point im willing to bet you have lost your Boot.IMG and also did you use GUI app from market i did this and that how i lost my Boot.IMG and if so you will have to go to your pc and exract the Boot.img from the rom you flashed and after you have exratced file go to that folder and scrooll down until you see the Boot.IMG file and you will have to copy and past it into the folder that you used when you first rooted you phone and go to the start menu and typ cmd and you will have connect your evo to usb and typ fastboot flash boot boot.img and this will it boot right up after you flash the boot.img file
jslim38 said:
need more info in regards to how you flashed your rom but at this point im willing to bet you have lost your Boot.IMG and also did you use GUI app from market i did this and that how i lost my Boot.IMG and if so you will have to go to your pc and exract the Boot.img from the rom you flashed and after you have exratced file go to that folder and scrooll down until you see the Boot.IMG file and you will have to copy and past it into the folder that you used when you first rooted you phone and go to the start menu and typ cmd and you will have connect your evo to usb and typ fastboot flash boot boot.img and this will it boot right up after you flash the boot.img file
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If he is flashing the rom just the rom. Go to fastboot select . Fastboot boot recovery.img and wipe flash ur set. With a computer and your sitting pretty.
Sent from my PG86100 using xda premium
Im with reaper24 on this one.
Twrp cause nothing but issues. like not backing up my data correctly and having to redownload the ROM.
Im currently using clockworkmod 4.0.1.4. Havent had any issues with it.
Also have you read everything on ZR3D thread?
QUOTE-
***SPECIAL NOTICE: This rom is not for everyone! Some users have been unable to get past the splash screen. Please be sure you have a backup ready before flashing this rom. We are aware and working on this issue.
Thank you for your patience. However, 1.6 has been confirmed booting on some devices that would not in prior versions.***
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
iTzLOLtrain said:
Im with reaper24 on this one.
Twrp cause nothing but issues. like not backing up my data correctly and having to redownload the ROM.
Im currently using clockworkmod 4.0.1.4. Havent had any issues with it.
Also have you read everything on ZR3D thread?
QUOTE-
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
On his rom you will probably need to if still hboot 1.5 need to go to fastboot and fastboot boot recovery.img and wipe flash zero issues that method.
Sent from my PG86100 using xda premium
I dont know what the hell happened but i cannot get my phone to turn on. It stays stuck on the white htc screen
i am able to boot into recovery... factory reset does nothing. it actually says i have no OS on my phone.
i am able to connect through fastboot usb to my computer but i cant get the RUU to run. keeps giving me a error.
im not sure if i need to lock the bootloader first bedfore i run the RUU.
im stock rooted with twrp recovery. can someone please help me
Thakidfrom235 said:
I dont know what the hell happened but i cannot get my phone to turn on. It stays stuck on the white htc screen
i am able to boot into recovery... factory reset does nothing. it actually says i have no OS on my phone.
i am able to connect through fastboot usb to my computer but i cant get the RUU to run. keeps giving me a error.
im not sure if i need to lock the bootloader first bedfore i run the RUU.
im stock rooted with twrp recovery. can someone please help me
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What error are you getting when trying to run the RUU? You need to make sure the RUU matches the base of the rom that your phone is currently on. What were you doing when you started to have this problem?
legasus233 said:
What error are you getting when trying to run the RUU? You need to make sure the RUU matches the base of the rom that your phone is currently on. What were you doing when you started to have this problem?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
after i installed stock with goodies 2.10 the screen went black and would not come on
now when it turns on it gets stuck on the white htc screen and when i go into revovery it says i have NO OS installed
RUU says error 155: unknown error
please get the correct update utility and try again
Go to boot loader and flash twrp recovery and then the kernel and a rom
om4 said:
Go to boot loader and flash twrp recovery and then the kernel and a rom
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
theres nothing available for me to flash i believe everything was erased from the internal memory
Sorry I meant to say fastboot, I reset my SwiftKey keyboard because I got tired of fighting with it and the reset made it worse lol
Just download trwp recovery image and fastboot flash that, then pick a rom package and extract boot image and fastboot flash that, boot into twrp and flash the same ROM zip
Hurray, SwiftKey has arrogantly corrected 10,000 keystrokes, if only I could get it to work as intended
om4 said:
Sorry I meant to say fastboot, I reset my SwiftKey keyboard because I got tired of fighting with it and the reset made it worse lol
Just download trwp recovery image and fastboot flash that, then pick a rom package and extract boot image and fastboot flash that, boot into twrp and flash the same ROM zip
Hurray, SwiftKey has arrogantly corrected 10,000 keystrokes, if only I could get it to work as intended
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i dont know how to add these files to my phone without acessing the internal sd from my computer
Have you ever used fastboot
Download a full ROM that's compatible with your firmware... Then try flashing that
Bringing Love to HTC since the OG!!
EVOuser94 said:
Download a full ROM that's compatible with your firmware... Then try flashing that
Bringing Love to HTC since the OG!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
wow i missed the part where they said they have recovery, I believe meanrom has the workaround for the kernel which will save you from having to fastboot the kernel
om4 said:
wow i missed the part where they said they have recovery, I believe meanrom has the workaround for the kernel which will save you from having to fastboot the kernel
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
how do i get the new rom onto my nternal storage through fastbook usb?
or do i need to get a external ard and put it on there?
Thakidfrom235 said:
how do i get the new rom onto my nternal storage through fastbook usb?
or do i need to get a external ard and put it on there?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
mount your card from twrp and transfer the necessary files, again the new meanrom should include the workaround that xhausx ported from the evo 3d, it should save you the trouble of having to extract the kernel for fastboot
om4 said:
mount your card from twrp and transfer the necessary files, again the new meanrom should include the workaround that xhausx ported from the evo 3d, it should save you the trouble of having to extract the kernel for fastboot
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thanks for your help... sorry to be a pain but im downloading the new meanrom as we speak.
once i mount my card all i have to do is flash the rom through recovery?
or do i need to do something differently?
Thakidfrom235 said:
I dont know what the hell happened but i cannot get my phone to turn on. It stays stuck on the white htc screen
i am able to boot into recovery... factory reset does nothing. it actually says i have no OS on my phone.
i am able to connect through fastboot usb to my computer but i cant get the RUU to run. keeps giving me a error.
im not sure if i need to lock the bootloader first bedfore i run the RUU.
im stock rooted with twrp recovery. can someone please help me
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
if your phone is on its NOT bricked!!!!!!!!
Thakidfrom235 said:
thanks for your help... sorry to be a pain but im downloading the new meanrom as we speak.
once i mount my card all i have to do is flash the rom through recovery?
or do i need to do something differently?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
as far as i know Mikey incorporated a method to trick the hboot into flashing the entire package but if you get stuck during boot you will have to extract the boot image and flash that through fastboot
om4 said:
as far as i know Mikey incorporated a method to trick the hboot into flashing the entire package but if you get stuck during boot you will have to extract the boot image and flash that through fastboot
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
says it failed...gives me a error when i try to flash the meanrom
Thakidfrom235 said:
says it failed...gives me a error when i try to flash the meanrom
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well you can try any of the other roms available but if you get a successful flash and it does not boot, extract the boot image from that rom, go back into boot loader and fastboot flash the kernel
om4 said:
well you can try any of the other roms available but if you get a successful flash and it does not boot, extract the boot image from that rom, go back into boot loader and fastboot flash the kernel
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i am going to tryand flash another rom now
if it fails again what do i do?
this is driving me crazy i been without my phone all day
Thakidfrom235 said:
i am going to tryand flash another rom now
if it fails again what do i do?
this is driving me crazy i been without my phone all day
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Check the MD5SUM before flashing, saves you the trouble of a bad flash
Thakidfrom235 said:
says it failed...gives me a error when i try to flash the meanrom
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you have to be on twrp 2.2.2 older versions dont play nice