I went to buy Galaxy Note today..I watched
Youtube videos and though it would fit on my
hands.. I saw it n
OMG!! its huge..Doesn't even fit on my pocket..
My friend laughed like hell when I tried to
imitate a phone call scenario.. Its was
awkward .
The shopkeeper also said its too big .
Then he showed me the Sony Xperia S..
Gosh the screen was awesome..
I check out the Galaxy S2 too..
I liked the WVGA screen of the S2 but its
nowhere near Xperia S.
But the viewing angle was really bad on the
Xperia S.
N I didn't like the design too..Too much extra
space at the bottom. N 10mm thick too..
S2 was thin n comfortable to hold..
What I liked about Xperia S
-720p screen(but viewing angle is so bad)
-NFC tag
-Free standard hdmi cable
- 12 mp camera( i checked it n its awesome)
-PS store
-TV launcher
What I don't like about Xperia S
-Design
-Capacitative button is not responsive
-CPU n GPU is weaker than S2( according to
most techsites)
-Too thick..
Is the galaxy S2 screen resolution really that bad compared to Xperia S.. ??
I have a Galaxy S now n I want to upgrade screen wise as well
WVGA vs 720p..
Please help me choose.
Xperia S cpu/gpu is very old for a phone releasing now...
When Snapdragon 4 is out, sony is now with a snapdragon 3
And their is not much development for xperia S....(only one custom kernel and no cm7/9 yet)
You are from india so you will get i9100G(so you can't flash any roms here and i9100G have a different processor and GPU from i9100 international model)
Best choice is HTC one x which is much better than both xperia s and sgs2
the choice is obvious as long as Sony comes in the near future with the ICS upgrade. Just by comparing the two and taking in consideration just the resolution and overall hardware capabilities i'd go with the xperias. The S2 is still rocking, but let's not forget, a year has passed and there are other devices out there with better hardware.
And about the Note, I'd trade my S2 at any time for that beast of a screen, I've also played with it yesterday in an orange shop and I give you credit, it's big, but that's what the majority said about the S2 .
The resolution is important, for today's standards WVGA is obsolete, 720p is the standard now with a minimum of 4.7'' diagonal. I'd advise you to wait a little bit 'till the S3 is launched, who knows, maybe it will knock down the competition, or not . Also the HTC One X is an option, have you considered it?
Kristion said:
the choice is obvious as long as Sony comes in the near future with the ICS upgrade. Just by comparing the two and taking in consideration just the resolution and overall hardware capabilities i'd go with the xperias. The S2 is still rocking, but let's not forget, a year has passed and there are other devices out there with better hardware.
And about the Note, I'd trade my S2 at any time for that beast of a screen, I've also played with it yesterday in an orange shop and I give you credit, it's big, but that's what the majority said about the S2 .
The resolution is important, for today's standards WVGA is obsolete, 720p is the standard now with a minimum of 4.7'' diagonal. I'd advise you to wait a little bit 'till the S3 is launched, who knows, maybe it will knock down the competition, or not . Also the HTC One X is an option, have you considered it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No I didn't consider the One X..
HTC very poor at availability in India. Its available in the metro cities but not in Shillong, India.
So you think I should get the Xperia then.??
My friend also said Xperia is better for him if he had to choose one.
Jackmax32 said:
No I didn't consider the One X..
HTC very poor at availability in India. Its available in the metro cities but not in Shillong, India.
So you think I should get the Xperia then.??
My friend also said Xperia is better for him if he had to choose one.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Xperia is not better...
One x or you are wasting your money..
Xperia S is already a year old by its CPU/GPU In india for galaxy s2 you will get i9100G(No roms to flash here and weaker CPU/GPU then i9100 the international model)
HTC one x is the only best option..
sahibunlimited said:
Xperia is not better...
One x or you are wasting your money..
Xperia S is already a year old by its CPU/GPU In india for galaxy s2 you will get i9100G(No roms to flash here and weaker CPU/GPU then i9100 the international model)
HTC one x is the only best option..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I heard about the G model too..
Its really sad.. Samsung is fooling the Indian customers..
Well then I better buy the ONE X if I am gonna shell out 30K+ ..
Edit---------
Its more than 35K @@
Budget is below Rs 33000
xperia s has no front camera too
Jackmax32 said:
I heard about the G model too..
Its really sad.. Samsung is fooling the Indian customers..
Well then I better buy the ONE X if I am gonna shell out 30K+ ..
Edit---------
Its more than 35K @@
Budget is below Rs 33000
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Come on man
Adding 2k you will get 5 times better phone...
BTW one x is tegra 3 quad core and much better development
I bought my s2 in India and it's I9100 not I9100G.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using xda premium
its better to grab a S2 than experia their late for upgrade also hardware i came from ARC ,i love my S2
Jackmax32 said:
I went to buy Galaxy Note today..I watched
Youtube videos and though it would fit on my
hands.. I saw it n
OMG!! its huge..Doesn't even fit on my pocket..
My friend laughed like hell when I tried to
imitate a phone call scenario.. Its was
awkward .
The shopkeeper also said its too big .
Then he showed me the Sony Xperia S..
Gosh the screen was awesome..
I check out the Galaxy S2 too..
I liked the WVGA screen of the S2 but its
nowhere near Xperia S.
But the viewing angle was really bad on the
Xperia S.
N I didn't like the design too..Too much extra
space at the bottom. N 10mm thick too..
S2 was thin n comfortable to hold..
What I liked about Xperia S
-720p screen(but viewing angle is so bad)
-NFC tag
-Free standard hdmi cable
- 12 mp camera( i checked it n its awesome)
-PS store
-TV launcher
What I don't like about Xperia S
-Design
-Capacitative button is not responsive
-CPU n GPU is weaker than S2( according to
most techsites)
-Too thick..
Does the galaxy S2 screen resolution really that bad compared to Xperia S.. ??
I have a Galaxy S now n I want to upgrade screen wise as well
WVGA vs 720p..
Please help me choose.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe this will help you in your choice: http://www.gsmarena.com/sony_xperia_s_vs_samsung_galaxy_s_ii-review-734.php
_Raziel666 said:
Maybe this will help you in your choice: http://www.gsmarena.com/sony_xperia_s_vs_samsung_galaxy_s_ii-review-734.php
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dafaq?
Sony Xperia S over Samsung Galaxy S II:
4.3" 720p screen (342ppi) over 4.3" WVGA screen (217ppi)
12MP still camera over 8MP
1.5GHz Scorpion CPU over 1.2GHz Cortex-A9 CPU
Standard microHDMI port over MHL port (requires adapter for HDMI out)
GLONASS support in addition to A-GPS
All units have NFC over optional support in the S II
1750mAh battery over 1650mAh
3D sweep panorama and Multi Angle modes
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Scorpion 1.5 ghz is no where near exynos 1.2 in sgs2
Megapixel doesn't count(through snapshot from dep sleep feature is cool in xperia s)
That 3D thing is just placebo
Just stay away from xperias have experienced xperia phone in past and its having pathetic software support and development...
and also stay away from i9100G
@OP if you really want the best phone currently then go for one x
---------- Post added at 09:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:34 PM ----------
Bwahhahhahaa
2011 Xperia phones got ics before xperia S
http://blogs.sonymobile.com/product...software-upgrade-for-2011-xperia-smartphones/
Look I respect everyone's opninion here but most of you are talking ****. I've had both phones and now I have the s2.
It's a ****ty phone seriously... you pay that much money for a phone with this low resolution... lets say the owner wont flash custom rom, than the xperia s is the better choice.
Why ? Its old what are you.sayin bla bla bla...
Specs aren't everything. If you chose your phone specs based than you're not wise. The software of the xperia S is far more complete and bugfree than that of samsung. It is despite having the older cpu much much faster in everyday use.
Sony is actually one of the best companies in terms of software updates... don't say the s isn't good because you had an arc ... what is that ?!
The galaxy s2 is useless as a smartphone becaus of the super amoled plus screen. It uses maybe double or more power than a normal screen when displaying white colors. And most webpages are white...
Also the one x is beautiful but it isn't the best becaus it has a quadcore cpu. It is.sometimes slow i've used it. Also the tegra 3 sucks power like hell. It is a cpu based on the arm a9 architecture wich is like used in the snapdragon s1 series.
Use both the one x and one s and you'll see despite the fact that the one s is only dual core the snapdragon s4 is waaay faster. This because it uses a proper cortex a15 architecture that is actually designed to make multicore cpu's of it...
The quadcore nvidia tegra 3 isn't more than.a marketing gimmick. It's nothing really new and of you say that the snapdragon s3 is old than so is the exynos and the Tegra because it's all based on the same old architecture.
My advice go either with the xperia s or buy an.one s online if you can't find it in your city...
s2 is the best
.....about the size...belive me..at first i thought s2 is huge....now i prefer note size.....when u used to read and use internet and forget laptop u will prefer the bigger
Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk
soulaiman said:
The quadcore nvidia tegra 3 isn't more than.a marketing gimmick. It's nothing really new and of you say that the snapdragon s3 is old than so is the exynos and the Tegra because it's all based on the same old architecture.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i know that but in india only one x is available
Related
Hi,
I heard some rumours that sony will commercialise an upgraded version of the current XS (lt29i) with a Snapdragon Kraith S4 (Quad core) in June!
French source http://www.phonandroid.com/xperia-s-sony-processeur-qualcomm-snapdragon-s4.html
What do you think ?
That is the Xperia Arc successor not upgraded Xperia S.
S4 is a dual core CPU instead of quad core
God I hope not, that's a slap in the face to all early adopters.
However it's more likely they will use this chipset in the Hayabusa model supposedly coming in June/July.
Or maybe it won't be released in June.
Or maybe it's a larger phone.
Or maybe maybe... we'll have to wait and see
Larger phone? Yes its a 4.6 inch device.
june is when it will release.
Also s4 is a cortex a15 dual.core chip, so its faster than quad core nvidia tegra 3 and the samsung exynos quad core a9 chip to be used in gs3
4.6" screen? where did you see that?
Hope this gonna be exactly the same way as the Xperia S
but with better processor, lte, and ics buttons instead of these three little dots
and of course, dockable
Hayabusa only has ics on screen buttons. No hardware buttons.
Also as I mentioned earlier, hayabusa will be nothing like the xperia s. Its the design successor to the xperia arc
And yes it does feature LTE
With resolution of 720 x 1196 no the full 1080 HD so I assume it would have 4.2 inch display as the Sony Xperia S with a 4.3 inch display and the ion 4.55 inch display wiht both has a bigger resolution of 720 x 1280 and the full 1080HD.
So looking at the reolution size it definitely look to be around 4.2 inch because why would the samrtphone be 4.6 inch when the resolution is smaller than than the S and ion version.
Darkfunnyguy said:
With resolution of 720 x 1196 no the full 1080 HD so I assume it would have 4.2 inch display as the Sony Xperia S with a 4.3 inch display and the ion 4.55 inch display wiht both has a bigger resolution of 720 x 1280 and the full 1080HD.
So looking at the reolution size it definitely look to be around 4.2 inch because why would the samrtphone be 4.6 inch when the resolution is smaller than than the S and ion version.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They left vertical room in the resolution to support the on screen ICS buttons like the Galaxy Nexus i'm guessing, the screen size could be any inch.
-smc
---------- Post added at 01:29 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:23 AM ----------
SEFanX10i said:
Hayabusa only has ics on screen buttons. No hardware buttons.
Also as I mentioned earlier, hayabusa will be nothing like the xperia s. Its the design successor to the xperia arc
And yes it does feature LTE
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Mate,
Where did u get this info from? I can't find any photos on it or specs.
Always loved the design of the Arc, would have had one if they gave it dual cores which is my min and max requirements for a mobile phone.
-smc
SEFanX10i said:
Hayabusa only has ics on screen buttons. No hardware buttons.
Also as I mentioned earlier, hayabusa will be nothing like the xperia s. Its the design successor to the xperia arc
And yes it does feature LTE
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hayabusa won't have LTE, but Mint will, both are the same device, but different screen size
unknown13x said:
Hayabusa won't have LTE, but Mint will, both are the same device, but different screen size
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How do you know that ?
it would be nice for the people who say things about this phone to have a source so they dont look like they are talking out of their ass lol. the reason i didnt get the xperia s is because the hardware isnt a upgrade from the amaze (what i have currently). if sony makes a phone with the s4 id upgrade in a heartbeat though
stratax said:
it would be nice for the people who say things about this phone to have a source so they dont look like they are talking out of their ass lol. the reason i didnt get the xperia s is because the hardware isnt a upgrade from the amaze (what i have currently). if sony makes a phone with the s4 id upgrade in a heartbeat though
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry, I guess I'm not a reliable source
unknown13x said:
Hayabusa won't have LTE, but Mint will, both are the same device, but different screen size
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
... aluminum unibody?
Yea, so...
Wheres these links on the body and definite specs of the phone?
I see "I heard, I heard" but no links I wanna see the look of this device which unknown13x somehow discovered?
There's also an "I heard, I heard" little rumor that the Hayabusa is the new Play, which also can't be dismissed due to well...lack of information .
http://www.gadgetcross.com/sony-ericsson-hayabusa-lt29i-display-resolution/
are we even Sure its Android ?
Let's talk logic here, the Vita just went on retail, how much impact would it be if they were to release the PLAY2 this year? Quite alot actually, so we can take that out the question.
Hayabusa is arc's successor, though the looks is 100% Sony product (From the design spin-off, they drastically changed the brand signature to a Sony-scent device). S4 will be on it for sure. No, no aluminum body like the P.
Sad news is, these devices may get delayed as the NXT series are selling like hot cakes at the moment. Who knows, might get canceled?
It's perfectly logical
The Vita is the PSP successor.
The Play2 (or Hayabusa ) will be the Play successor
Either way it's all speculation, and it may indeed not even get released. Or hell, it may even be a tablet! no one knows, its mostly rumors at the moment anyways.
edit: Or even one of the floating touch line!
But the most important question....can it brew a good cup of coffee and do my laundry?
Noooooo, I hope they don't get cancelled!
I was really hoping for an aluminum unibody on the hayabusa or mint as one of those phones will be my upgrade from my x10a. Hopefully one of them will at least have a white magic display and some other cool goodies as they'll likely have some stiff competition from Apple and Samsung when they launch.
One thing that does come to mind is that the new company Japan Display Inc will be coming online soon, so I imagine whatever screens Sony will use in their future phones will come from there. Maybe we will finally see Sony OLED tech in action on a smartphone?
I am wondering, is the Xperia S really worth it with an S3 processor? I mean there will be more flagships later on in the year with S4. But what is so much better about this new processor and should I wait for phones with it or get the Xperia S?
Cheers
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1584736
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1599273
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1597629
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1549315
I saw those, but am not looking at comparing with other phones, just want to know about the processor in general, will it be outdated soon?
adsada arc said:
I saw those, but am not looking at comparing with other phones, just want to know about the processor in general, will it be outdated soon?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes. That is the nature of technology. The S4 will be outdated soon. As I always say, if you wait for 'the best' phone, you will wait forever.
If you used search, you would also see there's a thread about the S4 Hayabusa.
I can't be bothered to link the thread because I'm not google, but it's only rumors at the moment.
Of course better phones will be made later on in the year...that's how it always is. Like how it always is, if you keep waiting for phones you will never get one, because something better will be down the road...A phone is outdated within like...less than 4 months now with tech advances?
The S does it for me, if you want a comparison between the S3 and the S4, you can find it online.
Asking if the Xperia S is worth it, in the S thread isn't the best idea because well...we are all proud owners of the phone. I love the S, to me it's the phone to watch for this year, especially when ICS rolls out.
I agree that you end up waiting forever to keep up with tech, but I just feel like the S2 is a year old and had the same tech and the Xperia S. Sure you can never keep up with how technology moves but at least if the manufactures were releasing up to date hardware it would last that bit longer.
As for asking within the XS thread, I'd hope even if you love the phone you could still give some objective advice...
The extra speed is the main benefit of course, as every1 uses their smart phone slightly different no1 can really answer that for you, so what benefits do you think you will get waiting for the S4 processor?
The XPS S3 is plenty fast enough in my opinion, the phone plays smooth 1080p video in the browser... thats fast and not many phones/tablets can do that. The S4 will have the same ability so zero benefit there.
All games run smooth and will for yrs to come with the XPS same as when the S4 comes out so zero benefit there.
The XPS has a super fast high quality camera, the next phones might come out with a sub par camera so u might loose more benefit there and will have waited for nothing.
XPS is a great media player in general probably the same as the S4 when it comes so zero benefit again there.
Technical details you can find via the wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snapdragon_(system_on_chip)
If you want S4 right now tho it's in the HTC One S.
-smc
---------- Post added at 10:27 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:24 AM ----------
No such thing as an outdated processor these days on any platform as 99% of software and games will be coded for the majority of all phones.
-smc
Yea, I believe you would have to fight to see the difference between the two...things even ran decently smooth on my X10 to be honest, and that was only an S1 .
Currently my S doesn't lag at all, its actually butter smooth, and I don't get any skipping or any kind of app lag. I guess it comes down to how you use the phone, and well...if you are a spec junkie. If you want an S4 right now, you have to get the One S (as SMC said), which isn't much of an upgrade (besides S4 and ICS, there's no plus) and at least in my opinion a huge downgrade in aesthetics and the camera.
I really think the difference between the S3 and S4 won't be visible...unless you are a spec-junkie and want to get top benchmarks at all times (which may be the only time you will see a difference, i think). I honestly don't think it will bring more (noticeably) to the table than you already get with S3.
Keeping it neutral enough?
I think S5 will be faster than S4.
I've benchmarked my XPS vs. one of my friends' One S. The difference in the benchmarks is noticeable, but I felt like everything on the XPS was smoother in general. It might be Sense 4 though. But again, and the camera on the One S is laaaaame, and the screen is not that great.
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk 2
RiotRick said:
I think S5 will be faster than S4.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But not as fast as the M3.
Wait, cars or phones?
Okay I think I will keep it
See I won the Xperia S in the twitter competition and contemplating keeping my arc and selling it and waiting for the Hayabusa, but after seeing how much ebay steals off the final selling price. I never thought I would be using my arc as a back up phone less then a year after getting it (I normally upgrade every 2-3 years)
RiotRick said:
I think S5 will be faster than S4.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
S5 will be twice as fast but if you hold it wrong its slower.
S3 is 40 nm and S4 is 28 nm. It's faster, cooler and more power efficient. But it's not worth another 100 € (One S).
mikbe said:
S3 is 40 nm and S4 is 28 nm. It's faster, cooler and more power efficient. But it's not worth another 100 € (One S).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok.... xperia s vs one s vs one x (s3/s4/tegra 3). I did that too, still I bought the Xperia S? Why?
One S / One X - faster CPU. XPS fast enough for a phone.
XPS / One S - Size is good, One X - too big
One S - qHD pentile display. XPS / One X great 720p displays
One S 16GB (too little for me). One X / XPS 32GB (enough)
Camera is good in all 3, altough XPS is probably best quality pics + dedicated camera button. OneS/X have nicer software interface
ICS All 3 will have it in a few weeks. No real issue to wait a little bit for it.
All of these phones have there stronger and weaker point. In the end you have to decide what you find most important. The CPU is only just one thing, for me definately not the most important. Granted you need a certain baseline speed for a phone to have it operate smoothly. But the S3 in the XPS has plenty of speed. Heck even the 1GHz single core S2 in the Desire HD still performs pretty nice on the resolution that phone has. S3 is the xps is a lot faster than that. It will serve me just fine the coming period.
I wanted to buy a phone that was in the 4" - 4.3" inch range, with a good 720p display, 32GB (or microsd slot), a decent camera and fast enough to operate smoothly. XPS suits that best, I also really like the design of it.
RiotRick said:
Ok.... xperia s vs one s vs one x (s3/s4/tegra 3). I did that too, still I bought the Xperia S? Why?
One S / One X - faster CPU. XPS fast enough for a phone.
XPS / One S - Size is good, One X - too big
One S - qHD pentile display. XPS / One X great 720p displays
One S 16GB (too little for me). One X / XPS 32GB (enough)
Camera is good in all 3, altough XPS is probably best quality pics + dedicated camera button. OneS/X have nicer software interface
ICS All 3 will have it in a few weeks. No real issue to wait a little bit for it.
All of these phones have there stronger and weaker point. In the end you have to decide what you find most important. The CPU is only just one thing, for me definately not the most important. Granted you need a certain baseline speed for a phone to have it operate smoothly. But the S3 in the XPS has plenty of speed. Heck even the 1GHz single core S2 in the Desire HD still performs pretty nice on the resolution that phone has. S3 is the xps is a lot faster than that. It will serve me just fine the coming period.
I wanted to buy a phone that was in the 4" - 4.3" inch range, with a good 720p display, 32GB (or microsd slot), a decent camera and fast enough to operate smoothly. XPS suits that best, I also really like the design of it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
very helpful information thanks
Also, the Xperia S films 1080p movies @ 60fps while the HTC One only do 30fps.
RiotRick said:
Ok.... xperia s vs one s vs one x (s3/s4/tegra 3). I did that too, still I bought the Xperia S? Why?
One S / One X - faster CPU. XPS fast enough for a phone.
XPS / One S - Size is good, One X - too big
One S - qHD pentile display. XPS / One X great 720p displays
One S 16GB (too little for me). One X / XPS 32GB (enough)
Camera is good in all 3, altough XPS is probably best quality pics + dedicated camera button. OneS/X have nicer software interface
ICS All 3 will have it in a few weeks. No real issue to wait a little bit for it.
All of these phones have there stronger and weaker point. In the end you have to decide what you find most important. The CPU is only just one thing, for me definately not the most important. Granted you need a certain baseline speed for a phone to have it operate smoothly. But the S3 in the XPS has plenty of speed. Heck even the 1GHz single core S2 in the Desire HD still performs pretty nice on the resolution that phone has. S3 is the xps is a lot faster than that. It will serve me just fine the coming period.
I wanted to buy a phone that was in the 4" - 4.3" inch range, with a good 720p display, 32GB (or microsd slot), a decent camera and fast enough to operate smoothly. XPS suits that best, I also really like the design of it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Pretty much sums up why I love my Xperia S
Sent from my LT26i using Tapatalk
sl1nk3 said:
Also, the Xperia S films 1080p movies @ 60fps while the HTC One only do 30fps.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are wrong here. The Xperia S cannot record 60fps 1080p video. Only some of their camcorders are able to do this.
GT35pro said:
You are wrong here. The Xperia S cannot record 60fps 1080p video. Only some of their camcorders are able to do this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It can, just needs a small media profiles change.
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk 2
do u all think that S3 should be bought by the user who already uses an
S2.
S3 specs are:- |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| S2 specs are:-
1280x720p super amoled hd(not plus)|||||||||||| 800x480 super amoled plus
1.4ghz exynos quad core(28nm)||||||||||||||||| 1.2 ghz exynos dual core(45or32)
16/32gb variant +expandable|||||||||||||||||||| 16/32gb variant _expandable
1gb ram ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| 1gb ram
and customized interface.(new touchwiz)|||||||| touchwiz ux(4)
should S3 be purchased by an enthusiast if he already owns an
Galaxy S2????
S3 to the S2 is what the iphone 4s is to the iphone 4
Look at the main differences, they are only software oriented... The only upgrade is maybe the camera, the quad core cpu (with same gpu) and the led notification light... The super amoled hd is a pentile screen...
Not digging my pockets this year
duykhang524 said:
S3 to the S2 is what the iphone 4s is to the iphone 4
Look at the main differences, they are only software oriented... The only upgrade is maybe the camera, the quad core cpu (with same gpu) and the led notification light... The super amoled hd is a pentile screen...
Not digging my pockets this year
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thats what i was thinking.
cause the camera is the same old 8 mp cmos sensor but flatpanel.
just the screen size,resolution and the processor has been changed.
so i think would stick to my S2 for one year more and wait for S4.
my DAD will be happy that this year his wallet will not be empty like last 2 years.
Other than the screen and battery, there's nothing I want over s2 TBH. When's the last time you found s2's CPU struggle with anything? Now what you going to do with a quad core CPU that put some laptops to shame?
I know most S2 users will say it's not worth it, but after reading both the engadget and androidcentral coverage (and also technobuffalo and pocketnow) I have come to the conclusion:
I want it.
First of all, this is not iPhone 4->4S. The only thing there was a dual core in stead of single core processor and the camera. No DESIGN changes, it looked the same. No screen changes, it looked the same.
My initial feeling was mixed. First I wasn't amazed by the design. After seeing more and more articles and more and more pictures/videos, I changed my mind. That "metallic blue" colour is very nice, I like the home button design, the curved edges. The only thing I'm not amazed about is the back, but it's ok.
Hardware wise I'm happy. People with the S2, I understand you doubting if it's worth the upgrade from an S2. But some people on the net saying the hardware is total "****" should be locked up. People expect WAY to much. 2 years ago I would have only dreamed about such specs. While my S2 is no slow guy, I am starting so see room for improvements. It's slow some times, not a lot but ok. Also the change from WVGA to 720p res is a great thing, even if it's "pentile". Another small but maybe unknown detail is the S3 uses a "wolfson" soundchip or how it's called, so supercurio already tweeted we can expect amazing sound quality.
Atm I"m enjoying my S2 and somewhere in June/July I might get the S3. Like I said a while ago, standard pattern of most humans:
Initial disappointment, after a while start changing their minds, buy the phone anyway, start loving it hardcore mode. Every year. People usually focus only on specs on paper, but start seeing the small details later. And off course actually holding the phone in your hand, that's when the magic chicks in ^^
Of course it's worth buying the SIII. They upgraded the best feature in the world: pink spot right in the middle of the photos.
duykhang524 said:
S3 to the S2 is what the iphone 4s is to the iphone 4
Look at the main differences, they are only software oriented... The only upgrade is maybe the camera, the quad core cpu (with same gpu) and the led notification light... The super amoled hd is a pentile screen...
Not digging my pockets this year
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You will buy this phone, just wait till you come out and you hear all the good things about it, you won't be able to resist. You will find things in your pockets
duykhang524 said:
S3 to the S2 is what the iphone 4s is to the iphone 4
Look at the main differences, they are only software oriented... The only upgrade is maybe the camera, the quad core cpu (with same gpu) and the led notification light... The super amoled hd is a pentile screen...
Not digging my pockets this year
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And what changes did you expected?
The hardware upgrade is nice, the online thing i dont like is the design. its so 2008 :-(
Sent from my GT-I9100 using XDA
Features like Smart Stay, SVoice etc are so awesome, worth buying!!!
+Notification LED
I just wanted to see what does Supercurio do with Voodoo!
S3 has a wolfson, thats enough reason for me to switch
no . its not worth-it unlike iphone user who need to wait apple decision to add features . .. we dont hope the s-voice, s-memo and the other software inprovement excluding touchwiz will be ported to our beloved galaxy s2 okay2 maybe touchw's icons just for the sake of refeshment
SGS III forum here.
Do we really need to flood the SGS2 pages with floods of opinions about another device - which won't be released for four weeks - when one can do so on said device's dedicated forum?
No we don't IMO...
raf2k said:
And what changes did you expected?
The hardware upgrade is nice, the online thing i dont like is the design. its so 2008 :-(
Sent from my GT-I9100 using XDA
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Have you seen good renders/official pictures of it?
http://m.pocketnow.com/android/the-samsung-galaxy-s-iii-was-it-worth-the-wait
It's beautiful imo.
---------- Post added at 07:25 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:23 AM ----------
B3311 said:
SGS III forum here.
Do we really need to flood the SGS2 pages with floods of opinions about another device - which won't be released for four weeks - when one can do so on said device's dedicated forum?
No we don't IMO...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh come on it's one thread. No flood.
It's common sense this will be discussed here.
Orr.Penn.18 said:
I just wanted to see what does Supercurio do with Voodoo!
S3 has a wolfson, thats enough reason for me to switch
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly .... and the special thing thing is the chip is better than the one in sgs.
Generally people will never have the mind to update their previous flagship, adding the poor design for sgs3 the upgrade will be slower from sgs2 users.
If you like HD screen, capture more photos, better battery life then you can switch to sgs3 without a doubt.
People haven't read the initial review from anandtech and gsmarena, this sgs3 blows the competitors with wide margin . The only drawback I would say is the back panel design.
#*posted on the move *#
XDA mark said:
Oh come on it's one thread. No flood.
It's common sense this will be discussed here.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That must be why I've found 4 threads here already then.
Don't see that it's "common sense" at all - that's what the dedicated forum for the SGS III is for....
Anyway, see the last post here - when a mod says discussion goes on relevant thread, end of story.
Bet this thread will be locked anyway.
Having gotten the original Galaxy S and SII, I was greatly anticipating the SIII even though I was very impressed with the HTC One X.
After seeing the device, I have to say I'll be getting the One X instead. I waited and waited but was ultimately disappointed.
This new device is pretty ugly. How can the company that made the elegant Galaxy Nexus also make the chintzy, cheap-looking Galaxy SIII? Seriously -- the Galaxy SII actually looks better with its more pronounced edges -- the curved appearance of the SIII reminds me a lot of the Galaxy S -- in other words, the design went backwards. At least the iPhone 4s retained what was a good-looking design.
That's not the only thing that went backwards: the display technology Samsung is using on the SII is superior to the Pentile display of the SIII even if the resolution is lesser. What's more, in real world use, the SIII will probably not be that much better than the One X. Also, correct me if I'm wrong but the front camera also has a slightly smaller sensor, doesn't it (1.9Mpix vs. 2.0Mpix)?
Moreover, whereas other manufacturers are exploring the use of new processes and materials for its builds (Apple is allegedly planning to use new materials and processes on its iPhone and HTC already used a different set on its new One series), Samsung has stuck to ugly, glossy plastic.
What's bizarre is that if you look at Samsung's other offerings, like its televisions, it isn't afraid of producing elegant, spartan designs. There's nothing elegant or spartan about the Galaxy SIII, it's just cheesy.
Also, while I thought Touchwiz 4 was passable enough, the new TouchWiz looks like a disaster waiting to happen. You can already tell there's going to be a ton of crapware on the i9300. Where's the evolution? Why persist with the iPhone knock-off design sensibility when Android has already moved forward? Why insist on a very ugly hardware home button when Sammy itself shipped the first ICS sandwich with virtual buttons?
Rather than going for an ICS-influenced look which was meant to unify the appearance of the OS across devices and manufacturers, Samsung doubled-down on the most-critiqued software feature of its devices. Also, as one can see from the various hands-on videos, they even retained the Gingerbread-green battery icons!
At least HTC had the good sense to tweak SenseUI heavily to give its users a good user experience while incorporating just enough ICS to please the Android purists. Just looking at the TW5, you know it'll be another invasive, ugly experience from Samsung.
The only redeeming quality the SIII seems to have is its SoC, which is why some are saying its an evolutionary rather than revolutionary update.
So, sorry, Sammy. You aren't getting my money this year.
Better stay away from xda,internet for some time
If i say just once that I need new phone, I am kicked out of house
Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2
i'm pretty disappointed with the Galaxy S3 to be honest.
1. looks like a piece of soap.
2. screen is pentile
3. hardware buttons (really samsung?)
4. fat bezel
5. a9 battery sucker instead of a a15 for the sake of marketing
6. crapwiz
it's a galaxy SIIs. I'm gonna wait for the next Nexus. just my $0,02
In my opinion, SG3 not really a idea phone to buy if you already have SG2. Because:
1. Still not need quad core yet.
2. 4.8inch too big for "mobile" phone. Almost size of Samsung Note.
3. Same camera MP.
4. Ugly and non pro design.
The only things that interest me is the NFC technology.
Sent with my GT-I9100 from Heaven
holyguyz said:
3. Same camera MP.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i can't believe that there still people thinking that image quality is measured in megapixel. it's 2012.... we should be over this now. people like you are the reason why the sgs3 has a inefficient quad instead of a a15 dual. CUZ M O O OOOAR IS B E TTARRR!
Well i finally said goodbye to my Galaxy S3, will i miss it nope not at all, mainly because it suffered from both dust issue's around the edges, and had probs with 32GB sandisk memory cards, other than that it been great.
Now because of the probs with the Galaxy S3, I'm tempted to skip Samsung this time around & head over to the Sony camp with the Xperia Z, what i seen so far it nothing short of brilliant, looks like Sony have really got their act together now, just hope they also get their act together when it comes to future updates aswell.
BUT
There also a small matter of the Galaxy S4 in the next couple of months, the thing that will put me off the Galaxy S4 if the design is based around the Galaxy S3, i don't want to have another smartphone suffer from dust around the edges again, as this pissed me off no end, but i'm a fan of touchwiz I loved the last update on the Galaxy S3 like split screen ect, and I've no doubt they improve touchwiz again with more new features on the GS4.
Then we got the specs, which will probably blow the others out of the water, but will it matter on Android 4.2.1 as the others will also have simliar specs ie Quad core 2gig of ram 4G ect, all very capable of running latest version of Android in 2013 and into 2014.
Also the camera is an important feature to me as i tend to use it alot, Sony really has a good camera on the Xperia Z with HDR video recording, picture quality is top notch aswell, going off what i've seen on Flickr.
On the Galaxy S3 the camera for a smartphone was superb, the lowlight feature that was added in the latest update is nothing short of brilliant i think.
I think the Galaxy S4 will probably use the same Sony Sensor that used in the Xperia Z unless they decide to make their own that is.
But eitherway camera is gonna be good.
I've got a hard decision to make over the next couple of months to get either the Sony or hang fire until we see what the S4 gonna be like.
In the meantime with the money sat in the bank, I'm now using my Nokia Lumia 800 as my backup phone, which in all honesty isn't a bad little phone and makes for a great backup Smartphone.
Don't let the door hit ya on your way out.
Anyways, the Z looks nice but Sony is known to be slow with updates. Maybe the Z could run aosp nicely though.
Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2
I'm with you. I'm waiting for the Z to be released in my country to buy it, it looks great and the specs are awesome.
Sony are very developer friendly, AOSP "aware" too. Samsung... aren't. Sony tend to get their hardware designs correct, Samsung struggle with basics like flash timings -SDS (even their own brand eMMC).
You decide. Pros and Cons for both, personal preference is the only matter.
GET the S4. the Z might look nice, but it's hardware is basically outdated. S4 PRO is a 2012 chip, not a 2013 chip. It also isn't REAL a15, so Tegra 4, Exynos 5, and the "s" series, s600 and s800 will beat da crap out of the s4 pro in the Z. But it's your choice, if you want already outdated hardware.. go ahead..
paintball23456 said:
GET the S4. the Z might look nice, but it's hardware is basically outdated. S4 PRO is a 2012 chip, not a 2013 chip. It also isn't REAL a15, so Tegra 4, Exynos 5, and the "s" series, s600 and s800 will beat da crap out of the s4 pro in the Z. But it's your choice, if you want already outdated hardware.. go ahead..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Outdated or not, it not gonna struggle with anything from Android this year, or next year for that matter.
Tell me one thing that the S4 pro will have problems with software wise?
ixon2001 said:
Outdated or not, it not gonna struggle with anything from Android this year, or next year for that matter.
Tell me one thing that the S4 pro will have problems with software wise?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
it'll be outdated. just wait for the first coming comparisons with the S4 and Z. I can guarantee you that the S4 will blow the Z out of the water, reason why, is that it'll have a REAL a15 SoC.
ixon2001 said:
Outdated or not, it not gonna struggle with anything from Android this year, or next year for that matter.
Tell me one thing that the S4 pro will have problems with software wise?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It will struggle surely next year
sent fromXperia sT21i
Everything stock
Here is your answer Sony released kernel source for Xperia Z before the phone is even available for purchase https://www.xda-developers.com/andr...ce-released-prior-to-worldwide-device-launch/
Go for the Z.
Kernel source isn't much dude... But good job trying to market for Sony. Besides they are required to do that anyway by GPL. They need processor data sheets, the binaries source.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using xda premium
Okay I'm not sure if this is the right forum for this. If it isn't and I'm breaking some rules I can only apologize. Since this involves two phones I might post this in two places, also I've asked the same on other forums.
I'm in the market for my first smartphone and I'm on a budget, where I live phones are really expensive so the latest and greatest is out of the question! For example the Galaxy SIII is over 900 USD and no sensible person would spend that much on a phone.
There are two phones that I'm looking at that fit in my budget, the Galaxy S3 Mini and the Galaxy S2 Plus. And I ask the experts, what should I get?
What I'll be using it for other than calling people is text, emails, web browsing and Google Maps. Although it has to have a decent camera and I see the S2+ has the better camera.
I've done some research on my own and it seems that S2+ has better specs except for maybe the GPU. The S3 Mini has 1 GHz dual-core Cortex-A9 NovaThor U8420 and has a Mali-400 GPU. The S2 Plus has a Dual-core 1.2 GHz Broadcom BC28155 and Broadcom VideoCore IV GPU. Not heard anything about the Broadcom chips so I don't know if it is better even if it's clocked higher.
I asked a similar question at another forum where I was recommended the S2+ because even though the S3 Mini has a better pixel density the S2+ screen looks sharper because it uses Super AMOLED Plus screen technology.
What do you say?
Go for the good old s2 (not plus) has a dual core 1.2 exynox pro and a mali-400 (?) Gpu. Has the S-Amoled plus panel and has jelly bean leak (but is super stable)
Sent from my HTC One X using xda premium
mhoss48 said:
Go for the good old s2 (not plus) has a dual core 1.2 exynox pro and a mali-400 (?) Gpu. Has the S-Amoled plus panel and has jelly bean leak (but is super stable)
Sent from my HTC One X using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I wish I could! That is no longer sold here it seems.
Please ask questions like these here:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1620179
"To err is human, to forgive is divine"
Sent from my SGS II
immortalneo said:
Please ask questions like these here:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1620179
"To err is human, to forgive is divine"
Sent from my SGS II
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok, thanks. I'll put it there.
Depending on where you live in the world and what baseband your cell carrier uses, you should look into the chinese knock off phones.
They can look like any phone you want. S3 or even s4. They all cost around 200 usd but try to find one with an mtk589 quad core.
Fastcardtech.com sells them.
Or search HDC phones on youtube.
You can also find them on other sites. People just say good things about fastcardtech. They do not have 4g though.
The two samsung phones your looking at, are in about the same category as hdc. Just probably will cost more because of the name.
Sent from my SGH-T989 using xda app-developers app
akb8812 said:
Ok, thanks. I'll put it there.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And please report this thread to the moderators and have it locked.
"To err is human, to forgive is divine"
Sent from my SGS II
S2+ will be a better deal.
My friend got the S3 mini, and the Camera is not up to the mark. The S2+ is better that way. Pixels can be seen on the s3 mini screen, harder to see on s2+.
I would pay more attention to the GPU rather than the CPU. If you're into gaming, then you'd wanna see if your favorite games run smooth on a particular GPU. The CPUs seem pretty good for both (I don't see any scope for lag at all, thanks to the 1GB RAM and dual core along with project butter)...
Since I'm pretty close to my friend who has the s3 mini I have used it considerably ( I have an s2).
These are the disadvantages of the S3 MINI only:
- It is atrocious that there is no automatic brightness! Brightness has to be adjusted manually in different lighting conditions.
- There is no noise-cancellation technology to cut off background noise from your side, during a phone call.
- The camera's burst mode is horrid and not usable. There is motion blur in the captured images! (That defeats the purpose of burst shot)
- No 1080p recording, lack of detail on front camera.
- It isn't really comparable to the S3. You're getting probably only 40-60% of S3 features. Don't buy the S3 mini simply because it has the S3 name tag. It is a different device. If you like it for what it is, then buy it.
But I personally prefer the S2+ as it looks more masculine (assuming you're a guy), it has a better camera, better screen (rich blacks, very colorful), and simply because I have an S2 (Lol jk )
The best thing you could do is to try these 2 devices at a local mobile store and compare them patiently. I know how it hurts when we buy something and then regret it, so take your time.
Hit the "THANKS" button if you found this post useful!
i had the S3 mini before i had buyed the S2.
What is good: is fast with the Stock-Rom in Version 4.1.2, all work fine and had a good prize...
What is bad? No Support for CyanogenMod, the driver-sources are not complete out. And exacly this was my argument to selling by ebay and buy a S2
I have it only buyed, while my LG P990 are broken and i require a phone for work.
My fazit: Its only a good phone when its have fully CyanogenMod
my 5cent
jj_95nano said:
S2+ will be a better deal.
My friend got the S3 mini, and the Camera is not up to the mark. The S2+ is better that way. Pixels can be seen on the s3 mini screen, harder to see on s2+.
I would pay more attention to the GPU rather than the CPU. If you're into gaming, then you'd wanna see if your favorite games run smooth on a particular GPU. The CPUs seem pretty good for both (I don't see any scope for lag at all, thanks to the 1GB RAM and dual core along with project butter)...
Since I'm pretty close to my friend who has the s3 mini I have used it considerably ( I have an s2).
These are the disadvantages of the S3 MINI only:
- It is atrocious that there is no automatic brightness! Brightness has to be adjusted manually in different lighting conditions.
- There is no noise-cancellation technology to cut off background noise from your side, during a phone call.
- The camera's burst mode is horrid and not usable. There is motion blur in the captured images! (That defeats the purpose of burst shot)
- No 1080p recording, lack of detail on front camera.
- It isn't really comparable to the S3. You're getting probably only 40-60% of S3 features. Don't buy the S3 mini simply because it has the S3 name tag. It is a different device. If you like it for what it is, then buy it.
But I personally prefer the S2+ as it looks more masculine (assuming you're a guy), it has a better camera, better screen (rich blacks, very colorful), and simply because I have an S2 (Lol jk )
The best thing you could do is to try these 2 devices at a local mobile store and compare them patiently. I know how it hurts when we buy something and then regret it, so take your time.
Hit the "THANKS" button if you found this post useful!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for that brilliant reply! I'm sorry for keeping this thread alive but I did want to respond.
The camera on the S2+ is certainly attractive. So that alone makes the S2+ tempting!
As for the CPU and GPU they're similar in both devices although it seems that the CPU in the S3 Mini is benchmarked higher but I'm not sure it's actually any better. It's certainly clocked lower.
The GPU on the S3 Mini is better when it comes to games, I can't imagine I'll be playing many graphics heavy games if any so I'm sure in the end the VideoCore will do nicely even though it's rubbish for big games. lol
Neither the S2+ and S3 Mini are like their big brothers but would you say the S2+ is more like the original S2 than the S3 Mini is to the original S3?
Anyway, I was playing around with and Galaxy Ace 2 at work and I found that one really fast and snappy lol so I'm sure the S2+ or the S3 Mini will be brilliant for me LOL
akb8812 said:
Thanks for that brilliant reply! I'm sorry for keeping this thread alive but I did want to respond.
The camera on the S2+ is certainly attractive. So that alone makes the S2+ tempting!
As for the CPU and GPU they're similar in both devices although it seems that the CPU in the S3 Mini is benchmarked higher but I'm not sure it's actually any better. It's certainly clocked lower.
The GPU on the S3 Mini is better when it comes to games, I can't imagine I'll be playing many graphics heavy games if any so I'm sure in the end the VideoCore will do nicely even though it's rubbish for big games. lol
Neither the S2+ and S3 Mini are like their big brothers but would you say the S2+ is more like the original S2 than the S3 Mini is to the original S3?
Anyway, I was playing around with and Galaxy Ace 2 at work and I found that one really fast and snappy lol so I'm sure the S2+ or the S3 Mini will be brilliant for me LOL
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The S2+ camera is good according to reviews. It performs well even in low light and while using flash. Although you can expect noise (image grain) and slightly shaky videos.
There isn't much to complain when it comes to the Broadcom GPU... The old S2 had color banding problems with Mali 400, MAYBE that might not be there on S2+. Also I've seen a number of videos on YouTube in which people with S2+ were playing high performance games with no lag, although one person found a graphic glitch in one particular game (Modern Combat 4). But since you said that you won't really play intensive games, you should be more than happy with the GPU.
Don't go by the benchmarks when it comes to performance. These numbers are easily manipulated. A manufacturer can easily tweak devices to give better benchmark scores just to increase sales. On paper, the S2+ has a better CPU than S3 Mini. Don't worry.
When it comes to similarities, the S2 and S2+ are very similar when compared to the S3 and S3 Mini (which are day and night).
These are the differences between s2 and s2 plus:
- s2 plus gets only 8GB storage over 16 or 32GB in s2.
- s2 plus gets a faster camera.
- s2 plus has optional NFC depending on your region.
- s2 plus gets GLONASS which helps you get faster GPS locks.
- s2 plus is slightly heavier, has a little softer loudspeaker than s2, different GPU and CPU.
Hopefully Samsung might have ironed out all the defects/mistakes they made with the S2. (Pink spot in camera, yellow tint on left side of screen, stutter while recording HD video in varying light conditions, etc.)
But I'm sure there won't be any problems with the S2 plus.
Out of curiosity, I wonder which country you stay in...
Hit the "THANKS" button if you found this post useful.
jj_95nano said:
The S2+ camera is good according to reviews. It performs well even in low light and while using flash. Although you can expect noise (image grain) and slightly shaky videos.
There isn't much to complain when it comes to the Broadcom GPU... The old S2 had color banding problems with Mali 400, MAYBE that might not be there on S2+. Also I've seen a number of videos on YouTube in which people with S2+ were playing high performance games with no lag, although one person found a graphic glitch in one particular game (Modern Combat 4). But since you said that you won't really play intensive games, you should be more than happy with the GPU.
Don't go by the benchmarks when it comes to performance. These numbers are easily manipulated. A manufacturer can easily tweak devices to give better benchmark scores just to increase sales. On paper, the S2+ has a better CPU than S3 Mini. Don't worry.
When it comes to similarities, the S2 and S2+ are very similar when compared to the S3 and S3 Mini (which are day and night).
These are the differences between s2 and s2 plus:
- s2 plus gets only 8GB storage over 16 or 32GB in s2.
- s2 plus gets a faster camera.
- s2 plus has optional NFC depending on your region.
- s2 plus gets GLONASS which helps you get faster GPS locks.
- s2 plus is slightly heavier, has a little softer loudspeaker than s2, different GPU and CPU.
Hopefully Samsung might have ironed out all the defects/mistakes they made with the S2. (Pink spot in camera, yellow tint on left side of screen, stutter while recording HD video in varying light conditions, etc.)
But I'm sure there won't be any problems with the S2 plus.
Out of curiosity, I wonder which country you stay in...
Hit the "THANKS" button if you found this post useful.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks!
Of course, I don't expect to get a camera on phone that has the same quality as a proper camera.
Yes, I've seen similar videos. I rarely play games but if I do, I have a computer
I'm in Iceland, where top end phones cost around 1000 USD!
akb8812 said:
Thanks!
Of course, I don't expect to get a camera on phone that has the same quality as a proper camera.
Yes, I've seen similar videos. I rarely play games but if I do, I have a computer
I'm in Iceland, where top end phones cost around 1000 USD!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Haha, I agree
OMG, $1000 can get me a Macbook! You can shop for phones when you go overseas next time.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using xda premium
jj_95nano said:
Haha, I agree
OMG, $1000 can get me a Macbook! You can shop for phones when you go overseas next time.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, it's not cheap living on an island in the North Atlantic. HAHAHA. No idea how much the Macbook is here, probably around 1800-2000.