Let me start off by saying donations are definitely a good thing. However, the nature of donations going on on XDA has got me thinking about a few things:
Do you think too many people want and/or expect donations for little things or things that don't really bring much to the table? Disregard the part at the bottom of their post that makes a lot of people seem righteous "Donations are not required, but are appreciated" something along those lines. Lines like that are what probably make people go "aww" or "wow, this person is really cool" But is it a subliminal tug at your heart strings on purpose? I have always been the kind of person that requires no donations because I don't consider myself bringing nothing really new to the table. More along the lines of bringing alternatives to things that are already on the table.
Most of us would do the things we're doing regardless, so why would you want money for it? I know a ton of people are going to rely on the "I never asked for money" stance, but the fact is, you kinda DO ask for money when donation links are plastered all over your topic.
Take for example someone who truly wanted to dive in and understand how modding Android files worked, how to make a ROM, how to theme a ROM. That person would do those things and probably push out something to the public even IF donations weren't accepted on XDA. In other words, true passion would yield community projects anyway, so why pretend like the donations are to "continue this project" when everyone knows you would continue it anyway? It's not like the people are doing these ROM projects just to get money, or are they? Now, I have seen more and more people wanting donations for slightly modifying things that aren't even open source software, like modifying proprietary HTC/Samsung/Motorola/etc files. Is this fair? Where does the line get drawn between giving donations for someone who truly is developing, and someone who is simply modifying?
I feel that teams like CyanogenMod, TeamWin, people who bring things to our phones that aren't otherwise available such as Beats, xLoud engine, etc. are the ones that truly deserve our money because they are the ones who raise the bar, bring exceptional software, software modifications, and new things to the table. So why then, does someone who downloaded a kitchen made by dsixda, smali/baksmali made by jesusfreke, various tools made by other people, and take information freely available on the internet written by other people expect, want, or even secretly want donations?
Chad Goodman is a perfect example of someone who truly does warrant having donations sent his way, but instead is satisfied with a mere thanks and appreciation from the community for his kernel development.
What are your thoughts on donating to people for something like a ROM that was for the most part completed by HTC? I wouldn't be surprised if sooner or later people started expecting donations for giving out information on upcoming phones. There are a ton of true developers that aren't "in your face" and are more behind the scenes that never really get recognized for their brilliance that should deserve our donations, thanks, and appreciation, but in the mix of so many 'developers' they seem to go forgotten.
I learn things for my own satisfaction and to make my phone better, and if I feel like anything I have done to my device can benefit the community that a lot of it I learned from, then I will most certainly share it without any financial compensation direct or indirect. I for one will never accept donations from the community I share things with that I would do for myself anyway, unless I feel that I truly am helping to raise the bar nor will I make it feel like their donation is what drives my continued support on a project, because let's face it- if a donation is what drives you to learn more and share with the public, you probably don't deserve the donation to begin with.
I'd just like to say that I think you're a class act, Freeza. I don't have a 3D and I'm not really sure how I came across this post, but I used your ROM exclusively on the TP2 from PPCGEEKs..Thank you for your contributions and never looking for anything more than a "thanks".
Not agree.
If you don't want - do not donate. If yes - go.
Nobody is not responsible for your unstable mental state, no one is forcing you to do donations.
I making the donations, made it for Kobra-rom and made it for MikRunny rom. Nobody is talking to me to do that, but i think the guys made work, great work, that making me to love my Android-phone. I think, that without custom roms Android is dead, and without the donates development is dead.
Even little development is development.
There is only my opinion.
You're a good guy freeza
Swyped from mah 3vo!
Kemanorell said:
Not agree.
If you don't want - do not donate. If yes - go.
Nobody is not responsible for your unstable mental state, no one is forcing you to do donations.
I making the donations, made it for Kobra-rom and made it for MikRunny rom. Nobody is talking to me to do that, but i think the guys made work, great work, that making me to love my Android-phone. I think, that without custom roms Android is dead, and without the donates development is dead.
Even little development is development.
There is only my opinion.
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Definitely not unstable in any way. This topic is only meant to spark discussion, not take away from developers. I really am looking for a reason that so many people put donation links up all over the place if they do it for the love of learning; with the exception of developers.
Kemanorell said:
Even little development is development.
There is only my opinion.
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Like what is little dev to you, is it modding because that is not. Alpha rev unrevoke teamwin creators of tools is dev without them guys you could not even modify so........ unless you are a dev you don't need those tools so...... What is little
Sent from my powered Shooter E3D with Infection of AnthraX Jamz by wolf.
funny you posted this here, as I just a few sec ago had to comment on this subject in the HTC Desire S forum when responding to a reported thread on this subject...
Here is what I said: (note the main topic was about having donation links in peoples signatures and if non RD's warranted having it. btw)
My personal opinion on the subject though.....
It is more than okay for people to have donation links in their sig's that are not dev's. You dont have to be a Dev to warrant a donation. Many of the themer's and other people that contribute to the community are NOT developers but they provide value to the overall community and if someone wants to donate to them so be it...They might not get much use out of the button, but it is their right to have one if they want...
Now asking or demanding for donations up front will not be tolerated here in any way. There can be a fine line on this with RD's and others using the donation system for their beta's and such before a wide release but thats NOT what I'm talking about here at all. I'm talking about the flat out demanding of a donation before providing a service or doing anything else...If you see that then report the post and I or someone else will handle it.
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Now I also agree the ones that do it out of pure love, I appreciate more as they are the true driving force here, imho. Now you have to agree that these people are taking time out of their personal lives to do work for the community and should be allowed to be compensated when/if users decide to do so. The $$/donation should never be the driving force or reason behind what goes on here. imho
Hence Rule 8 of XDA, "...donations up front are not allowed, this forum is about sharing, not about getting paid to do something, that's what your job is for."
Now as for those people putting links everywhere to donate and such to them....they typically just get put on the ignore list by me. I don't believe your donation link should be the biggest thing in your signature though if there...just poor taste imho and shows you are concerned more about the $ than the community here...
This is just like the professional athlete....some play just for themselves and some for the overall team reward in the end...Those that play just for themselves and the paycheck might be outstanding athletes and likely help a team win a bunch of games, but also might cause other frictions that the athlete playing for the team doesn't cause...both are professional athletes in the end so they are both talented but both have their pluses and minuses...imho
freeza said:
Definitely not unstable in any way. This topic is only meant to spark discussion, not take away from developers. I really am looking for a reason that so many people put donation links up all over the place if they do it for the love of learning; with the exception of developers.
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It is because we are at FORUM, some public-place, some impersonation of the network freedom, if you want...so anybody doing what he's want, because the site is allow that.
---------- Post added at 07:01 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:56 PM ----------
.Elite_The_King. said:
Like what is little dev to you, is it modding because that is not. Alpha rev unrevoke teamwin creators of tools is dev without them guys you could not even modify so........ unless you are a dev you don't need those tools so...... What is little
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See, my opinion is simple: any time-donation (to make some theme, other little thing) coast some money. So it is some type of freedom - if you want - make some donation, if not - so not.
And if you don't trust any "little dev", so don't expect to see some really amazing things. Any stick always have two ends.
Ah, yea, i forgot to say, Freeza, i like your work (wallpapers). Thank you.
Freeza, i have to say that you worded that up perfectly but I do feel as though some of the contributions "you" have made here does warrant donations. Your firmware zips (copy/paste or not) alone have saved many here from bricks and a lot of hassle.
Haven said that, I do agree with what you're saying here, anyone with common knowledge can copy and paste code. I myself have built my own personal roms to my personal liking by asking questions, researching, and copy and paste....that certainly doesn't classify me as a dev, nor would that warrant a donation to me if I posted them (even though some have turned out pretty good if i do say so myself lol).
I have donated to 4 devs here, but like you said, it was to those who have brought something totally new to the table and were worthy. The worst are the ones who actually start begging for money on their threads....I find that despicable. We've had those on the 3d thread before....one was banned (for something else), but i digress. I'll just end by saying, you my friend, are worthy of donations.
sgt. slaughter said:
funny you posted this here, as I just a few sec ago had to comment on this subject in the HTC Desire S forum when responding to a reported thread on this subject...
Here is what I said: (note the main topic was about having donation links in peoples signatures and if non RD's warranted having it. btw)
Now I also agree the ones that do it out of pure love, I appreciate more as they are the true driving force here, imho. Now you have to agree that these people are taking time out of their personal lives to do work for the community and should be allowed to be compensated when/if users decide to do so. The $$/donation should never be the driving force or reason behind what goes on here. imho
Hence Rule 8 of XDA, "...donations up front are not allowed, this forum is about sharing, not about getting paid to do something, that's what your job is for."
Now as for those people putting links everywhere to donate and such to them....they typically just get put on the ignore list by me. I don't believe your donation link should be the biggest thing in your signature though if there...just poor taste imho and shows you are concerned more about the $ than the community here...
This is just like the professional athlete....some play just for themselves and some for the overall team reward in the end...Those that play just for themselves and the paycheck might be outstanding athletes and likely help a team win a bunch of games, but also might cause other frictions that the athlete playing for the team doesn't cause...both are professional athletes in the end so they are both talented but both have their pluses and minuses...imho
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Good points... but do you really think some people who receive donations do it for the community or do they do it for themselves and simply share it with the community? Because if they're not taking requests and simply posting up something they've done, it was more than likely done for themselves before the notion of donations were even considered, then simply shared it with everyone else with the intent OR later intent on getting donations.
Having a donate button under your avatar is different and for the most part fine, because it isn't obtrusive, but when you plaster something at the bottom of your signature and/or posts telling people if you've helped them to 'please donate' or 'please consider donating' or any other phrase out there that is condescending to the bottom line of "GIVE ME MONEY", that's where I think it goes from being fine to just annoying.
Take for instance someone who made a ROM, then at the bottom of the ROM is like "so there you have it guys. OH and by the way if you find any of this helpful, donate to me!" or "please consider donating so that I may continue work on this project" and it's like.....really? That's borderline breaking the rules, at least in my eyes. I feel like the point of donating is for those who truly want to donate, and by doing so haven't read any annoying catch phrases that would make them feel obligated to donate--hence the donate button under your avatar. XDA should consider banning signature advertising of donating and strictly keep to the button. That and ban people from soliciting by using word trickery such as "If you feel i've helped you, donate to me" because a lot of time I DO feel as though someone has helped me, but if I don't donate, does it mean I don't feel that way?
freeza said:
Good points... but do you really think some people who receive donations do it for the community or do they do it for themselves and simply share it with the community? Because if they're not taking requests and simply posting up something they've done, it was more than likely done for themselves before the notion of donations were even considered, then simply shared it with everyone else with the intent OR later intent on getting donations.
Having a donate button under your avatar is different and for the most part fine, because it isn't obtrusive, but when you plaster something at the bottom of your signature and/or posts telling people if you've helped them to 'please donate' or 'please consider donating' or any other phrase out there that is condescending to the bottom line of "GIVE ME MONEY", that's where I think it goes from being fine to just annoying.
Take for instance someone who made a ROM, then at the bottom of the ROM is like "so there you have it guys. OH and by the way if you find any of this helpful, donate to me!" or "please consider donating so that I may continue work on this project" and it's like.....really? That's borderline breaking the rules, at least in my eyes. I feel like the point of donating is for those who truly want to donate, and by doing so haven't read any annoying catch phrases that would make them feel obligated to donate--hence the donate button under your avatar. XDA should consider banning signature advertising of donating and strictly keep to the button. That and ban people from soliciting by using word trickery such as "If you feel i've helped you, donate to me" because a lot of time I DO feel as though someone has helped me, but if I don't donate, does it mean I don't feel that way?
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yeah I agree. though I dont mind the donate button in signatures really long as its not some big huge button taking up half the sig...then its just poor taste imho...Also the whole "asking for donations" id put in the same category...You shouldn't have to ask for it nor remind people to donate to yourself...let others remind people to donate and spread the word that way....
freeza said:
Good points... but do you really think some people who receive donations do it for the community or do they do it for themselves and simply share it with the community? Because if they're not taking requests and simply posting up something they've done, it was more than likely done for themselves before the notion of donations were even considered, then simply shared it with everyone else with the intent OR later intent on getting donations.
Having a donate button under your avatar is different and for the most part fine, because it isn't obtrusive, but when you plaster something at the bottom of your signature and/or posts telling people if you've helped them to 'please donate' or 'please consider donating' or any other phrase out there that is condescending to the bottom line of "GIVE ME MONEY", that's where I think it goes from being fine to just annoying.
Take for instance someone who made a ROM, then at the bottom of the ROM is like "so there you have it guys. OH and by the way if you find any of this helpful, donate to me!" or "please consider donating so that I may continue work on this project" and it's like.....really? That's borderline breaking the rules, at least in my eyes. I feel like the point of donating is for those who truly want to donate, and by doing so haven't read any annoying catch phrases that would make them feel obligated to donate--hence the donate button under your avatar. XDA should consider banning signature advertising of donating and strictly keep to the button. That and ban people from soliciting by using word trickery such as "If you feel i've helped you, donate to me" because a lot of time I DO feel as though someone has helped me, but if I don't donate, does it mean I don't feel that way?
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I agree. I think that anything regarding donating shouldn't be allowed in someones signature or in their OP. I think the button is enough. I have donated and actually had to ask the dev what there paypal email was because I couldn't find any other way to send it to them. I also had another dev turn down a donation. I respect both of them a lot more for that.
While I don't consider my contribution as large as other peoples, I have a donate link. I realized that people actually appreciated the downgrade CD in my signature. That, more than anything, makes me happy. While I didn't develop the downgrade method (Unknownforce gets my full respect for this), I started putting in a (hopefully unobtrusive) link to my post on my policy on donations. I later changed that, and now I have the sidebar link.
Personally, my rationale for having a donate button was so that maybe I could buy a second hand phone or two to start developing for (likely ones that don't have the largest development community). I want to put out things while learning more about Android.
Now, I haven't received anything yet, But I'm okay with that. I love that I have been able to help (even in the slightest). That's really rewarding to me.
~co~
certain things warrant donations like hosting i try to get my user to donate to the host cause that is the most expensive part of deving and i think asking for donations for a goal is reasonable such as faster hosting, putting an app on the market, buying a mhl cable for testing etcc.
Nice discussion. I'll have to read all the comments in a bit and see what everyone says, but to me I agree with your OP freeza. I believe devs should definitely recieve donations if the raise the bar and bring something new that users didn't have before, I also believe that if you are enjoying and aprecciate a developers constant work then you can donate. I don't like developers and modders who have half their signature be a donation sign or constantly ask for them. Donations shouldn't even be asked for on here. I believe that the donation button above your avatar is enough to let users know "if you want to donate then here you go".
I have the little donation button at the top and although haven't received a donation yet, I don't personally care. It's my passion to learn more about android that keeps me going and making themes. Not the money. I don't believe I have actually done anything worth receiving money for.
Sent from my EVO 3D using Tapatalk 2
I don't mind people asking for donations if they make customizations to ROMs and host them themselves. If it's basically reassembling others' works and throwing it up to a free host.. well, then you're just doing your hobby.
Off topic, but freeza, are you going to get an Evo LTE? You're a guy I want to see in those forums.
Sent from my Evo 3D using Tapatalk 2.0
yousefak said:
Off topic, but freeza, are you going to get an Evo LTE? You're a guy I want to see in those forums.
Sent from my Evo 3D using Tapatalk 2.0
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Of course I am! and thank you, I will definitely be a part of it.
I agree with u freeza, I think the Rd's/Dev Teams and/or users that actually create the tools and/or create their own code, ports, etc... should be the only ones that should be allowed to ask for donations (If they so choose to).
IMHO, they are the ones bringing the stuff to the table and provide us (The users) the tools to allow us to modify and cook our own custom roms, etc..
Now I'm not trying to disrespect anyone who creates roms. They certainly deserve all the thanks for all their hard time and effort spent on creating their roms.
There's really a fine line here, You have the users that create custom roms from the tools that dev's create and then you have the dev's that create those tools to begin with. Without the building blocks to create those roms, there wouldn't be anything for us to flash.
So i believe that donations should be more favored towards dev's and not users who create roms to their liking.
Like I said before, I'm not trying to disrespect anyone who creates roms, I flash roms daily and thank the people who make this phone worth keeping. This is just for discussion purposes only.
Sent from my PG86100 using XDA
neonfreak20 said:
I agree with u freeza, I think the Rd's/Dev Teams and/or users that actually create the tools and/or create their own code, ports, etc... should be the only ones that should be allowed to ask for donations (If they so choose to).
IMHO, they are the ones bringing the stuff to the table and provide us (The users) the tools to allow us to modify and cook our own custom roms, etc..
Now I'm not trying to disrespect anyone who creates roms. They certainly deserve all the thanks for all their hard time and effort spent on creating their roms.
There's really a fine line here, You have the users that create custom roms from the tools that dev's create and then you have the dev's that create those tools to begin with. Without the building blocks to create those roms, there wouldn't be anything for us to flash.
So i believe that donations should be more favored towards dev's and not users who create roms to their liking.
Like I said before, I'm not trying to disrespect anyone who creates roms, I flash roms daily and thank the people who make this phone worth keeping. This is just for discussion purposes only.
Sent from my PG86100 using XDA
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I understand where you are coming from and in a way I do agree, but with that said I have to add in that just because ROM developers are creating ROMS with other people's tools does not mean they aren't spending just as much time writing code as the people who made the necessary building blocks. For a large part of ROM development people can't just simply use another's tools. Especially for ports. It requires lots of testing and risk and hours of looking at notepad++ and eclipse (or other ide's) . So I do agree alot of people need to think about the outstanding tools developers have made, but people who make ROM's are just as easily developers as the ones who design the tools.
Sent from my EVO 3D using Tapatalk 2
Related
I have been a member of XDA some time now. In the time that I have been a member I have used various forums from the Wizard thru the Raphael. I am seeing a transformation in the forum that I think we need to correct. When I first joined, the board was very different from the way it is today. The posts were more technical in nature, with people offering suggestions and posting not only the bugs they found with the ROM’s, but sometimes the fix as well. I feel that the Raphael forum has strayed far from that, to the point where people are just posting and waiting for the chefs to fix everything. I am not saying everyone does that, but it is the majority. There are two things I am concerned about. One, chefs are leaving from being burned out or simply not having the time to keep up with all the requests, Second, the quality of the ROMs. See, if we help the chefs by either resolving our own issues or helping them with bug resolution they will have more time for improvements and refinement. This will lead to the fastest most stable ROMs possible. I think the community needs to go back to the times when people were a little hesitant to just post anything, and actually do research and troubleshooting before bugging the chefs. Any and all comments would be appreciated, either agreeing or disagreeing with me.
-McMex
Amen to that! could not agree with you more....
the problem is that flashing ROMs are too easy now, the tools are too useful, and these VERY powerful tools are now in the hands of kids too immature to research for themselves
I agree with you McMexican. Just had an issue in the Blackstone forum over this exact issue you mention here.
P1Tater said:
Here's the issue with XDA lately and it's not just this thread that it's happening. The problem is that everyone reports a bug but noone tries to assist in fixing it. Everyone expects the cook to be all-knowing and be able to fix himself. However, these people have lives as well. They have families and jobs and don't have 24 hours in a day to just sit here on the thread and wait for people to report bugs so they have something to do. So, everyone complains, cries and whines about their issues and never once says what apps they have installed, uninstalled, what regs they have changed or files they have added or deleted and then wonder why the chef doesn't have the issue and why he can't fix it. Then when the chef gets upset. Then, when they do get upset then the "Thank You's" come. Did it ever occur to anyone to thank the chef when the rom worked? No, when it works you don't post and when it doesn't work you post complaints. I wonder why the chef's get upset . Just think about it.
What should happen is if it works, thank the chef or contribute. Damn, even a Thank You goes a long way. If you are having issues, maybe just maybe, report the issue, what you have tried, whatt apps you have installed and what you have uninstalled. Ususally when a chef cooks a rom, they don't install apps to the rom because everything they use is cooked in. Believe it or not, some apps will absolutely kill a rom.
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This is what I posted in that thread but it seems as though it is worth mentioning here as this discusses the exact same issue we seem to be having all over XDA lately.
Agree
I agree with this partly although I'm not sure this is the right place to post it.
Its a free forum and in its nature you will nearly always get this type of thing.
Yes it does burn out alot of the chef's but they also have lives that take on different directions as time moves on and so they come and go.
The bug reporting with no solution must be really pissing our chefs off and it is not just for roms.. I'm seeing it with software enhancements too.
At its core this is still by far the best forum for our devices. I believe XDA has always developed the best ROMS & enhancements for our devices and often take them to places the original manufacturers would never have dreamed of.
I just don't know how something like this can be policed. Nearly all the guys post in their first post something about not asking dumb questions but yet they still get them.
The ones that really piss me off are something like "Just flashed and now blah won't work" with absolutely no details at all.
What I do is leave the 'dumb questions' to the other users of my ROM to answer.. I find the userbase to be generally savvy enough to answer its own questions
The ones that I feel the userbase will not be able to answer easily or in a timely fashion, I post an answer for
It's not that I wouldn't like to have the time to sit there and answer all the 'dumb questions', but my time is better spent doing other things.. and the users don't seem to mind helping each other generally, when it's within their knowledge..
Then again my ROM is a little more hands-on than others, so i've already eliminated a good amount of the 'newbies' by it not being quite so easy to flash
mcmexican said:
I have been a member of XDA some time now. In the time that I have been a member I have used various forums from the Wizard thru the Raphael. I am seeing a transformation in the forum that I think we need to correct. When I first joined, the board was very different from the way it is today. The posts were more technical in nature, with people offering suggestions and posting not only the bugs they found with the ROM’s, but sometimes the fix as well. I feel that the Raphael forum has strayed far from that, to the point where people are just posting and waiting for the chefs to fix everything. I am not saying everyone does that, but it is the majority. There are two things I am concerned about. One, chefs are leaving from being burned out or simply not having the time to keep up with all the requests, Second, the quality of the ROMs. See, if we help the chefs by either resolving our own issues or helping them with bug resolution they will have more time for improvements and refinement. This will lead to the fastest most stable ROMs possible. I think the community needs to go back to the times when people were a little hesitant to just post anything, and actually do research and troubleshooting before bugging the chefs. Any and all comments would be appreciated, either agreeing or disagreeing with me.
-McMex
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P1Tater said:
I agree with you McMexican. Just had an issue in the Blackstone forum over this exact issue you mention here.
Originally Posted by P1Tater
Here's the issue with XDA lately and it's not just this thread that it's happening. The problem is that everyone reports a bug but noone tries to assist in fixing it. Everyone expects the cook to be all-knowing and be able to fix himself. However, these people have lives as well. They have families and jobs and don't have 24 hours in a day to just sit here on the thread and wait for people to report bugs so they have something to do. So, everyone complains, cries and whines about their issues and never once says what apps they have installed, uninstalled, what regs they have changed or files they have added or deleted and then wonder why the chef doesn't have the issue and why he can't fix it. Then when the chef gets upset. Then, when they do get upset then the "Thank You's" come. Did it ever occur to anyone to thank the chef when the rom worked? No, when it works you don't post and when it doesn't work you post complaints. I wonder why the chef's get upset . Just think about it.
What should happen is if it works, thank the chef or contribute. Damn, even a Thank You goes a long way. If you are having issues, maybe just maybe, report the issue, what you have tried, whatt apps you have installed and what you have uninstalled. Ususally when a chef cooks a rom, they don't install apps to the rom because everything they use is cooked in. Believe it or not, some apps will absolutely kill a rom.
This is what I posted in that thread but it seems as though it is worth mentioning here as this discusses the exact same issue we seem to be having all over XDA lately.
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I absolutely agree. Both of these posts describe the reality of the situation. Back in the wizard days for the most part only people pushing the edge of technology bought the windows mobile PDA phones. The same appled to the hermes for the most part. When I moved to the tilt the tides began to turn. Prices of this type of phone began to be more reasonable based upon the technology. More and more companies bagan pushing mail. The internet became more of a requirement than a novelty. Less and less tech savy users began to purchase. These buyers soon learned winmo had a ton of flaws and came to xda. Some spent the time to learn and have become valuable members of the forum. Many did not. They pop in and want us to be the fix all for thier issues. One prime example is GSleon3. How many tilts did he unbrick for people carelessly flashing tilts. When the Fuze arrived the problem only grew. Ive seen more new members in the last 3 months than my entire time on xda. A few of the new members have really taken the time to learn and contribute. MANY have not. I get at least 15 posts a day in my thread asking questions that are answered multiple times in the thread. I get at least 30 posts per day that could easily be answered in at least 1 thread on xda if not dozens.
Most of the chefs in this forum are pushing the limits with cutting edge builds. Da_G has more or less led the way. It amazes me how many users think everything should work perfectly. With all the easy kitchens and premade OEMs so many people think making a good stable rom is easy.
I commend Da_G on pushing the cooking aspect. Hopefully more will realize its not as easy as they think. Ive been at this for years and I learn something new every day.
Over the past month I have grown more and more discouraged. If rom users would spend that extra few minutes to find a fix I could do so much more.
I do however want to thank all of those that have searched, that have, helped,that have answered questions and have done so much to make mine and other chefs roms better
While I do agree with all of what has been stated, and myself to be considered a "NOOB", I really think it comes down to the individual user. I may have asked a question or two (or 30) that may have been answered already before, but I personally try to search and I do try to find the answers myself when I can. I do try and figure the answers myself, but I just don't have the expertise to do so quite often. But myself, I try to make up for my lack of capabilities by way of PayPal to our grear chefs. Others don't truly understand the amount of work that goes into the cooking of ROMS, I am BARELY tapping into that now. I have been visiting XDA for quite some time now and have seen it grow. Unfortunately the user base has grown very large, and it is hard to manage the forums. With there being so many places to find information in this website, it takes time just to locate the information you need. Sadly, I don't see much change unless you start locking down the members capabilities to post, which would defeat the whole purpose of a community forum. As far as it is for the ROM Chefs, a suggestion for you would to not publicly post your ROMs (except in the case of the kitchens, don't do that, I'm addicted!) right away. Maybe put a password on them upon download and have some filtering system or something and maybe only release the password selectively or something. And have a guideline for posters, like your post must contain this: and if the post doesn't have that, then don't even bother responding. Let's face it, we techies with out the tech knowledge are at the mercy of the chefs!
Site is free but maybe some type of short ban on posting for spammer and those who bug chef after three strikes or so by senior member. A chef doesnt cook for just one person he cooks to what you may like. If you dont like a chef rom try another or just go back to dead stock rom bug your carrier. But my idea might be to much work.
Idea
Radimus said:
and these VERY powerful tools are now in the hands of kids too immature to research for themselves
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Wow, really? Maybe you were a dumb kid, but I'd like to avoid this stereotype.
The users on threads need to stop asking dumb questions, though. I think a rating system should be implemented like on Engadget. That way every time someone makes a dumb post we can demote them and limit their post count per day
The reason why there is so many nOObs posting is that the Raphael has had such a tremendous success at the carrier level. Almost all of the US carriers have picked up the Touch Pro. So it is very reasonable to surmize that the majority of new users are new to windows mobile and completely blown away by the amazing amount of tweaks available for it.
Maybe the best idea is create special forums designed for Senior Members only to comment in. They would be locked to all others to comment on, but visible for all to see. Then create another set of forums for general discussion. I see absolutely no reason a development forum should be open to all anyway. I often think if I read one more "Downloading now!" post I will scream! So again, I would lock just the development and hacking forums to approved members, or at least make all posts be moderated first before they are posted. That will keep the development threads clean.
I would then load up the non development discussion forums and threads with adwords and advertising and give that money back to the real developers. LEt the nOObs pay for development indirectly through advertising.
sammypwns said:
Wow, really? Maybe you were a dumb kid, but I'd like to avoid this stereotype.
The users on threads need to stop asking dumb questions, though. I think a rating system should be implemented like on Engadget. That way every time someone makes a dumb post we can demote them and limit their post count per day
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Is this post really necessary?
Anyway,
I agree with McMex about the types of post but part of the problem is the organization of the information. Idea for you, Subdivide the forum so that the Cooked ROMs could have their own POST that was a sticky and only limited to the Chef for editing (containing information about updates and revisions etc,...). Then maybe create another post for ISSUES ONLY with the Cooked ROM. And then one more for the nonsense that burdens the Chef or other users like me who try and shift through the countless meaningless post by the "can you fix..." crew. This might help keep the organization of the VALUABLE information contained in this forum.
I use XDA to help me stay up on the latest stuff so I can impress the boss and his co-horts into believing that I am a technical wiz (ha!).
Anyway, this is a bit disorganized and polluted but if you take the time to search, read, search some more and read some more you can find a lot of great help here. But it does need some organizing. Maybe if some people would use discretion in posting it might help cut down on the smog, if you know what I mean.
DSmithZ28, I think that we are on the same idea.
Many people here started out as noobs, used what they read, and then became developers. I'm trying to do just that. It would not be helpful to limit what I can see as I would not be able to learn the development process as easily. This wave just has to be ridden out and the community will pick up some more help along the way.
Just thought of this from systematic approach and put it in numbers (guessed at the numbers):
Forum pre-influx:
60% Experienced Members
30% Moderate
9% Noobs
1% Don't know where they are
Forum post-influx
45% Experienced Members
24% Moderate
30% Noobs
1% Still celebrating Obama's election
-What this means is that there aren't enough mid level people ATM to handle all of the tedious questions that the developers shouldn't have to answer. As more noob's gain knowledge, there should be a shift in the paradigm, this will even itself out and lead to another great period for XDA!
One thought, what if there were some type of Pledge or Credo thread that would echo the sentiments of this thread. Make it so the new member cannot post until they've responded "Read and Understood" to that thread.
Whatever happens, I pledge to help people find their answers, as it helps me learn along the way.
I know this probably sounds retarded, but back in the Kasier days, there was a couple of users (Scotchua, McMexican, Mfrazzz, taiser999, crispyj, HDStreetglide, JimmyMcGee, Daveshaw, & rzanolgy just to name a few) who floated around all of the rom threads and answered questions along with giving links and subtle prodding of the search function. Maybe if there were more users who did this, things wouldn't be the way they are today. But it will take more than just a couple of users. It will take the work of everyone. Also, we need more users helping edit the wiki's. These are just a couple of suggestions.
Never a truer word spoken, guys
Definitely agree that the culture's changed around here over the past few years.
I dallied a little with cooking a year ago. I was lucky - I had several people helping me by providing solutions to the problems I had (I'm looking at you McMex there, among others!). Back on the Kaiser, every chef helped each other and there was a hardcore group of users who knew what they were talking about and offered solutions. On the Raphael, we've got an excellent group of chefs co-operating, and there are a few of the hardcore, helpful users but I think they're getting lost in the huge amount of other users who seem to think this is an HTC support forum - they've spent money on their phones and think we owe them!
Have the users changed here, or is it just we've got so many more (unconstructive) users in here that they're being too diluted to see?
My time in the kitchen taught me I was out of my depth, and eternal respect for those people who deserve to be in there!
Maybe a read/search count of couple hundred before you can post in the dev forum? Just a thought. Seems like an easiest solution to implement for now.
@ overjjrk
Lol at the 1% celebrating Obama's election
And back on topic, I vote for a Question and Answers section for every device!
Agreed "at least 100%" to post one.
I started - as everybody did - as a NOOB and somehow I learned fairly good (*cough cough*) how to deal with these devices. I do also try to pick up threads now and then surfing the forum and trying to help (enough praise) but it trips me off BIG TIME that it seems meanwhile that NOOB's barely use the search, have no idea how google is spelled and give up after the first try or EVEN WORSE bump their own threads if the don't receive a quick answer. Good that I can keep my temper but sometimes I'd really like to answer "@@#$%%^&"....
I do like what pages like "blownfuze" or "fuzemobilty" provide for NOOBs because with that information stickies would take at least the first three pages of a subject.
Not sure if it can/will work out but fine tuning the Wiki (without breaking it) may help a bit since we all live from the contributions of each other.
An approach could be a Readme 1st section where either only mods or users willing to take this task, can contribute (guess mods will be overwhelmed since they too have a daytime job) and no replies are allowed.
One of the biggest issues and posts I do see recently is "setup the device to a certain provider". I'm not a cab or software guy but could one of these great people here perhaps come up with an idea to have a CAB which will simply set up the connection setting the that particular provider? There aren't more than 2 dozen major ones world wide so that could bring freedom to the chefs to deal with provider specific settings and keep concentrated on fine tuning a ROM still being open for the whole world.... just one of the ideas.
Let's see how this thread evolves.
how about i just start banning people that don't live in new york?
i think this is a good way to go about things.
Since I'm not a developer, I'd like to help them all out with this.
I think it would be cool for people to just be able to click a thread and read up on all the great devs we have for the Fascinate. Like in this thread, they just post up what they have done for the fasciante, some minor stuff about themselves, and a donate button. These guys all deserve to be reimbursed for what they do, they also deserve to be reimbursed to listen to all these random threads about how development is slow. They work, loose sleep, and still do all this just to help us make our phones better.
So if you have done anything "Development-wise" for the Samsung Fascinate. Please post some minor info about your self, Link to your work, and a Donate button.
AND I WILL BE VERY DISAPPOINTED IF SOMEONE POSTS IN HERE AND YOU DIDN'T DO ANYTHING DEVELOPER-WISE. SO IF YOU ARE JUST A "TESTER" PLEASE DO NOT POST IN THIS THREAD.
If you donated to them, you DESERVE credit too. Post your name (if you want) and who you donated to, and why you donated (if you have any certain reasons.)
I hope this will help the developers.
Thanks,
Samuel
hey guys! i just joined xda today and i'm loving it! i was looking at the bamf rom earlier today and saw that it was closed? does anyone know why or what happened?
Trolls. What else is new these days...
chlehqls said:
Trolls. What else is new these days...
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oh hahaha. so i guess i should follow it on the bamf website now?
joelz said hes focusing on BAMF stuff and not posting his work on here anymore.
biggie voice: "and another one"
Find him here.
What? Dammit, why these trolls be hatin' on our devs?
hope sooner or later the non-developers who toll on a development forum (for developers) learn that trolls make the developers go away....
it seems all the good developers are going away...
chad.goodman said:
hope sooner or later the non-developers who toll on a development forum (for developers) learn that trolls make the developers go away....
it seems all the good developers are going away...
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All they're doing is taking valuable devs go to other sites than xda.... Great job trolls
alainater said:
All they're doing is taking valuable devs go to other sites than xda.... Great job trolls
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some developers actually stopped developing.... cause of xda drama
...when was the last time i had an update? went from daily to 2-3 times per month
...ziggy? Ziggy was the best kernel dev XDA had...ever.. and you all pushed him to stop development... good one...
...cant remember the dudes xda name (i know his real name) ..but the dude who had the ONLY roms that supported usb host mode w/ my kernels...you all pushed him out of development...
chad.goodman said:
some developers actually stopped developing.... cause of xda drama
...when was the last time i had an update? went from daily to 2-3 times per month
...ziggy? Ziggy was the best kernel dev XDA had...ever.. and you all pushed him to stop development... good one...
...cant remember the dudes xda name (i know his real name) ..but the dude who had the ONLY roms that supported usb host mode w/ my kernels...you all pushed him out of development...
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that was androidosx, no?
I've been here to see all those great devs leave, and that's not even all of them. (though you still spend an awful lot of time here chad...time to troll-back the trolls?) I seem to always be at work when drama goes down, and by the time I catch up posts or entire threads are deleted.
just sayin.
Even before I bought my Evo 3D, I had checked out this section, and to be absolutely honest, I almost didn't bother getting one because of the amount of abuse being dished out in this sub-forum. People just asking questions getting jumped on and abused, without being repremanded. Just don't need it.
If the dev's got any of that attitude, I'm not really surprised. People 'should' be grateful that others put time and energy into software development, without any effort on their own part, dev's enable them to have fantastic features etc. The dev's don't owe you anything, so stop acting like they do. If you flash your phone that's your choice, don't expect help when you give the dev's a mouthful.. they have lives too, and they are not getting paid for it.
If you haven't got anything constructive to say, don't bother saying it
I'm very glad that guys like chad can ride out the negative crap, and realise that there are probably a lot of people that are very happy because of them
Scougar said:
Even before I bought my Evo 3D, I had checked out this section, and to be absolutely honest, I almost didn't bother getting one because of the amount of abuse being dished out in this sub-forum. People just asking questions getting jumped on and abused, without being repremanded. Just don't need it.
If the dev's got any of that attitude, I'm not really surprised. People 'should' be grateful that others put time and energy into software development, without any effort on their own part, dev's enable them to have fantastic features etc. The dev's don't owe you anything, so stop acting like they do. If you flash your phone that's your choice, don't expect help when you give the dev's a mouthful.. they have lives too, and they are not getting paid for it.
If you haven't got anything constructive to say, don't bother saying it
I'm very glad that guys like chad can ride out the negative crap, and realise that there are probably a lot of people that are very happy because of them
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i ride it out cause there was a recent change of shooter forum moderators...
...but who knows when i will create a new thread here - i create custom kernels for other XDA developers who ask...and i have a thread at infectedrom.com
but my motivation to develop for phones other than my hw001 shooter = zero
my test6 kernel works on all 2.17 based roms on hw001 phones.. so why put effort into making it work on hw002 phones.. so other devs can call the gpl police cause they cant kang what i spent hours working on cause htc wont release source... and i wont either
Sorry, just asking as a newbie - there arent moderators on these forums to do their job and keep the drama in check?
NixZero said:
Sorry, just asking as a newbie - there arent moderators on these forums to do their job and keep the drama in check?
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As contributors and fellow members of the XDA community, moderators also feel the frustration of losing significant contributors. I posted the following message in another forum with ongoing drama and for the most part, the message applies to this situation as well.
There seems to be a significant amount of animosity that permeates throughout the Android related forums. I'm not certain as to why this is, nor do I want to hear any reason for justification; what I do know is that it is unacceptable.
As moderators, we spend more time cleaning up flame & troll posts than working on our own community contributions. Unfounded accusations such as KANG'ing serve to drive away those valued members who try to contribute to XDA ... further lowering the quality of threads and posts on this forum.
XDA is about bringing together folks who have similar passions about mobile technology. I would have expected more maturity and professionalism. Instead, I find a thread full of inflammatory posts ... it is not constructive and serves no purpose.
While the Forum Moderator(s) take time from their busy schedule to effect cleanup and "damage control"; further detracting of this thread once it is re-opened will result in permanent holidays for those involved, rest assured that appeals will be non-negotiable. I would encourage members who have posted in this thread to reacquaint themselves with the forum rules - the best moderation is self-moderation.
Forum rules, please read!
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Our Shooter development forum has been a roller coaster ride over the past several weeks. Everything from developers taking their talents elsewhere to the unthinkable (HBoot downgrade) happening. As a fairly new, by XDA standards, member of these amazing forums, I want to know some people's honest opinions on what it will (or might) take to get our development forum back to what it's capable of being. In an ideal situation, we'd be able to have any lost developers come back and be able to share their contributions to our phones without any drama or repercussions for doing so. I mean no harm and I don't want bad feelings or bad memories being brought up, I just want what's best for XDA, XDA's members, and the developers that choose XDA to share their talents. I miss when XDA was fun and I want that back. I know there are many other members and developers out there that want the same.
Also, Moderators, please feel free to lock or delete this thread if it becomes a flame war or we start getting people trolling for no reason and adding nothing to this post. Also, please don't start throwing accusations around and all that. I want this to be a collaborative thought session from anybody who is willing to offer any constructive and positive feedback or ideas.
“To err is human; to forgive, divine” -- Alexander Pope.
mike.r.olson said:
Our Shooter development forum has been a roller coaster ride over the past several weeks. Everything from developers taking their talents elsewhere to the unthinkable (HBoot downgrade) happening. As a fairly new, by XDA standards, member of these amazing forums, I want to know some people's honest opinions on what it will (or might) take to get our development forum back to what it's capable of being. In an ideal situation, we'd be able to have any lost developers come back and be able to share their contributions to our phones without any drama or repercussions for doing so. I mean no harm and I don't want bad feelings or bad memories being brought up, I just want what's best for XDA, XDA's members, and the developers that choose XDA to share their talents. I miss when XDA was fun and I want that back. I know there are many other members and developers out there that want the same.
Also, Moderators, please feel free to lock or delete this thread if it becomes a flame war or we start getting people trolling for no reason and adding nothing to this post. Also, please don't start throwing accusations around and all that. I want this to be a collaborative thought session from anybody who is willing to offer any constructive and positive feedback or ideas.
“To err is human; to forgive, divine” -- Alexander Pope.
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I think all it would take is for people to stop being whinning, ungrateful douche bags. That is all. Devs are getting run off by people who whine and bi**h about every little thing. Everyone needs to realize that these devs are doing this for free and not asking for anything in return. Once everyone can do that and be grateful, I think a lot will change but it will not change everything. Some devs are gone and not coming back. At least gone to the 3D forums.
That's just my feeling on the subject.
Sent from my Anthrax infected 3D!
If I've helped you in any way... hit the "Thanks" button.
Also, here's what I use for reference when I want to know how well a thread can be run. Check out the MIUI thread (http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1271824). Team D3rp has done a fantastic job of making that thread a pleasure to read with even a few laughs here and there. Yeah it gets off topic every once in a while, but that's what FRIENDS do. They cut up and have a good time all while maintaining the same objective.
XDA isn't amazing, it's just the most popular. There are many issues here dealing with maturity, drama, and so on. The developers aren't some gods that should be worshipped and defended no matter what. The problem we have here is that too many people try to speak on behalf of devs, causing a lot of unnecessary drama.
In a perfect world, devs would post their work, and people would use it, figure out what could make it better, and continue from there. But here, if someone says something even a little derogatory towards a developer, they get teamed up on and attacked for it. Even though this is a free thing, and these people aren't paid to do this, they release their work to the public and as such they deserve criticism where needed. I've seen a lot of devs accept such criticism and work with it, but still people feel the need to defend them to the end. Devs aren't perfect, they aren't flawless people. Quite a few of them are attention seekers. People need to stop taking battles into their own hands. They need to realize that it just doesn't help.
There's too much of a focus on being the first to get something done, as well.
I agree that the developers should be subject to and even welcome constructive criticism, as long as it isn't a "THIS ROM SUCKS!!!eleven" kind of useless post. How else would one make their ROM/kernel/mod/theme better without worthwhile feedback? Maybe put a 10/15 word minimum on replies in the development and themes/apps sections?
One of things that drives me nuts is that people don't read the OP, won't even ATTEMPT to search for a solution to a problem, then they ***** & moan in threads like they are entitled to a answer in 2min from posting.
Sent from my PG86100 using xda premium
SketchyStunts said:
One of things that drives me nuts is that people don't read the OP, won't even ATTEMPT to search for a solution to a problem, then they ***** & moan in threads like they are entitled to a answer in 2min from posting.
Sent from my PG86100 using xda premium
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Maybe a larger, more dominant "Search This Post" button?
Perhaps a more larger, dominant brain in their heads?
Odoslané z môjho HTC EVO 3D X515m cez Tapatalk
mike.r.olson said:
I agree that the developers should be subject to and even welcome constructive criticism, as long as it isn't a "THIS ROM SUCKS!!!eleven" kind of useless post. How else would one make their ROM/kernel/mod/theme better without worthwhile feedback? Maybe put a 10/15 word minimum on replies in the development and themes/apps sections?
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some thoughts (basicly what it would take for me to post my work back on XDA again)
specific to the end-users and developers on xda:
..i have no problem is people tell me my work sucks.. but tell me WHY
---seriously, look at my work in the past, a user reported an issue, i busted my ass to fix it the same day the issue was reported, sometimes causing 2-3 releases in the same day
..instead of posting issues in XDA or any other forum, i ask you use my issue tracking site, so i have all the problems in one place, and everyone can see the status and updates of reported issues, including the person who reported it. (i honestly do not read every single post on my threads, i dont have the time... so if you have an issue, and you dont post it on my issue tracking site, dont expect to have it fixed..)
..i do have a problem when people make things personal or accuse anyone of any wrong doing without proof. even if they had proof, it should be done in PM and and not in public forum, or brought to the attention of a Sr. Mod if the PMs are not responed to.
..people should show common courtasy and respect when a developer (or anyone) gives them something for free. if you dont like it, move on....dont troll the developers thread.
..if you do not own the device covered by my thread, dont post in my thread, dont report my thread, dont down-rate my thread. If you do own the device, but dont use my software, the only thing you should be posting in my thread is questions about said software.
..understand ALL developers here are doing you a favor by giving you something for free...they sometimes spend days/weeks on something and just GIVE IT TO YOU
..<MOST> people will treat YOU like you treat THEM, if your an ass, expect to be treated like an ass.
..i dont expect to be treated any different than a non-developer, but i ask for basic respect...is this asking too much?
i know im not the only person on XDA that feels this way, but I am prolly the only one who will speak my mind.
+1 Chad.
That's for giving a developers point of view on the subject.
Also, I agree that developers should not be treated like Gods. They should be given respect for what they do though.
Sent from my Anthrax infected 3D!
If I've helped you in any way... hit the "Thanks" button.
That's the problem of using a forum to organize all of this stuff.
chad.goodman said:
some thoughts (basicly what it would take for me to post my work back on XDA again)
specific to the end-users and developers on xda:
..i have no problem is people tell me my work sucks.. but tell me WHY
---seriously, look at my work in the past, a user reported an issue, i busted my ass to fix it the same day the issue was reported, sometimes causing 2-3 releases in the same day
..instead of posting issues in XDA or any other forum, i ask you use my issue tracking site, so i have all the problems in one place, and everyone can see the status and updates of reported issues, including the person who reported it. (i honestly do not read every single post on my threads, i dont have the time... so if you have an issue, and you dont post it on my issue tracking site, dont expect to have it fixed..)
..i do have a problem when people make things personal or accuse anyone of any wrong doing without proof. even if they had proof, it should be done in PM and and not in public forum, or brought to the attention of a Sr. Mod if the PMs are not responed to.
..people should show common courtasy and respect when a developer (or anyone) gives them something for free. if you dont like it, move on....dont troll the developers thread.
..if you do not own the device covered by my thread, dont post in my thread, dont report my thread, dont down-rate my thread. If you do own the device, but dont use my software, the only thing you should be posting in my thread is questions about said software.
..understand ALL developers here are doing you a favor by giving you something for free...they sometimes spend days/weeks on something and just GIVE IT TO YOU
..<MOST> people will treat YOU like you treat THEM, if your an ass, expect to be treated like an ass.
..i dont expect to be treated any different than a non-developer, but i ask for basic respect...is this asking too much?
i know im not the only person on XDA that feels this way, but I am prolly the only one who will speak my mind.
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And hopefully we can get most of this accomplished. As I say in my other forums and it works.
If you see trolls report them, don't feed them. If you ignore them and report them we can get rid of them. If you fight with them we have to sort out who the trolls actually are.
Sent from my PG86100 using xda premium
The problem XDA wide is how aggressive everyone has become. It's not just developers, but users too. I read probably 100 threads every day looking for news stories and here's how it always goes:
1. Developer releases something
1a. Someone starts a thread in, say, General and says something.
2. Trolls
3. Everyone is angry
4. Developers leave.
The 5 things that would at least calm it down.
1. If there's a problem, report it to the mods. Too many regular users are trying to be ma and pa XDA and that causes a lot of problems. You think something is a kang or someone isn't following the rules: report to the mods and present proof. They'll look into it and make a decision. Live with that decision. (affects: users and developers)
2. If you don't like something, stay away from it. So many people post in dev threads for stuff they don't use just to cause problems. If you don't use it or don't like it, then get away from it. (affects: users and developers)
3. Stop demanding things from people. They aren't your slaves, you don't pay them and they don't owe you anything. In the old days, developers worked at their own pace and released things and users were just happy to have em. Now, users seem to have this "I'm entitled" attitude and it's wrong. You don't pay for XDA, ads do (exceptions being XDA Premium App owners and donators...but you guys do it because you love XDA, not because you expect something out of it). You don't pay for development...no one pays for development. It's a hobby to these people and they do it out of the kindness of their hearts. Be happy with what you have, be excited for what you're getting and quit running around like you're all that.
4. I'd say something similar about the developers, but Sora is ma and pa XDA today and took care of that for me.
5. This site is based around development and collaboration, not "you owe me a rom" or "where's our ICS" or "wah wah wah". Collaborating, developing and respecting one another, then things will be much better.
lastly, to those with sanity left...lead by example. This goes to devs and users alike. If you see someone trolling, don't respond to them. If you see someone acting a fool, don't respond to them. If you ignore bullies (even e-bullies), they eventually go away. Gotta stop letting them get under everyone's skin because then it shows that they can get under your skin and they'll keep getting under your skin. Who wants that?!
Good to see Chad still here. Stick around Chad! We got pstevep assigned to the 3D forums now, things are gonna get better!
just started reading in here for not so long, but noticed, that so many users think, the devs HAVE to publish their work, that they HAVE to include everything into a rom.
especially the thing with the camera and stuff on the evo 3d. like the devs have to get it work.
stop whining and shouting. if it's too slow for you guys, start doing it on your own.
in my opinion, if you, users always complaining about stuff, dont stop it, the devs will leave and won't publish any roms. so who's going to miss something? right, just you. the devs have their own roms. maybe they'll they in touch with other devs just talking about their work etc. but if they stop releasing their stuff, nobody will have custom roms any more, except you start programming your own...
so stop it, be happy with the stuff the devs provide and just report bugs, if there are any. or just say something, that may be a good feature of a rom
Besides Joel leaving I think things have been a lot better recently! If I do say so myself.
Joel is a great dev and those who care will follow him. I think people just got frustrated by all his projects but I myself enjoyed following the bleeding edge of his ports. But to each his own.
I believe at some point he will be back until then everybody should just try hard to be nice to eachother so the great devs will have a nice place to come back to.
Sent from my PG86100 using xda premium
This is awesome. Let's keep it going. I love when we can have troll/flame free discussions.
The thing that I don't get is the ones that go out of their way to post crap on people's threads that is useless just to be a smartass, troll or flame. If you don't like the topic, think it's stupid other whatever just move on and don't bother intruding on the persons post and degrading him. I mean what is the point in doing it really? It accomplishes nothing at all and results in another thread closing and why waste the time typing the nonsense in the first place
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The first thing i ever noticed about XDA, coming from Villainrom was that the users on XDA had a lot less time for you, I adapted quickly and have had run ins before.
Some people just get shot down in flames for asking a question, whether they're noobs or whether they're just stuck asking a question in a section and getting no responses, it can be hard for someone to get an answer, typically when they're new.
If you want a perfect forum, then create rules, if people don't adhere to those forum rules, then they leave, it's as simple as that.
As for the developers, well this place wouldn't be what it is today without developers, but they do it because they want to, they want to work at making something better and then share it with people, if people have have a question then they should be able to ask away.
Some of the OPS don't have a lot of info in them either, if someone asks about something which is quite clearly in the OP then they should get face palmed i get that, but not if they don't understand something and didn't want to spend an hour trudging through 300 pages to find an answer, then someone sarcastically turns around to them and says "Use the search button DOH" or USE SEARCH ----> or something which you'd expect from a spoilt kid.
Plus the search function isn't the best on XDA, sometimes it just doesn't work.
Myself, i think the one thing which has scared all the dev's off is the 3d, no one has been able to crack that yet (on the newer roms), if it were a single camera and it wasn't 3d, i think it would be more popular than the sensation.
mike.r.olson said:
Our Shooter development forum has been a roller coaster ride over the past several weeks. Everything from developers taking their talents elsewhere to the unthinkable (HBoot downgrade) happening. As a fairly new, by XDA standards, member of these amazing forums, I want to know some people's honest opinions on what it will (or might) take to get our development forum back to what it's capable of being. In an ideal situation, we'd be able to have any lost developers come back and be able to share their contributions to our phones without any drama or repercussions for doing so. I mean no harm and I don't want bad feelings or bad memories being brought up, I just want what's best for XDA, XDA's members, and the developers that choose XDA to share their talents. I miss when XDA was fun and I want that back. I know there are many other members and developers out there that want the same. ...
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The short answer, IMHO, is to have more people on here learning how to develop and contribute than just using and requesting features. The respect and entitlement issues a lot of people attribute to XDA are also far from being unique to this site, they're issues with the Android community as a whole.
There are far too many people who would rather just throw money out there to anyone who can make their phone do cool ****, and, while there is absolutely nothing wrong with donating to someone for their time, when you start putting it out there too much you get people whose only concern is hustling others out of money and the whole open source model collapses.
edit: As others have also mentioned, if you see something disprespectful, innappropriate or you don't think it belongs in your thread, etc., please hit the little triangle on the top right of the post and report it. On a site with this much traffic it's impossible to see everything that goes on and you all would be shocked if you knew about some of the stuff that gets by without anyone reporting it. It also makes it much easier for us to deal with and recognize those who have a habit of causing trouble.
I was interested in learning people's perspectives on donation etiquette and was able to find a thread in the Samsung Vibrant forum. Good stuff there on donation amounts.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1006726
Rather than resurrecting this thread, I thought I would pose the question here.
I have noticed that many people post the paypal confirmation number in the thread after making a donation. Do developers like this? Or is this just fishing for a 'thank you'. In some sense it cues others to make donations as well, which is good.
Thoughts?
stoicism said:
I was interested in learning people's perspectives on donation etiquette and was able to find a thread in the Samsung Vibrant forum. Good stuff there on donation amounts.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1006726
Rather than resurrecting this thread, I thought I would pose the question here.
I have noticed that many people post the paypal confirmation number in the thread after making a donation. Do developers like this? Or is this just fishing for a 'thank you'. In some sense it cues others to make donations as well, which is good.
Thoughts?
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I donated to a rom developer but didn't say anything in the rom thread. That just seems tacky to me. The next day the dev thanked me via email. Good enough for me. I took advantage of his efforts and hard work, loved his rom and made the donation.
I've always pm'd the person i donated to.