Just received this from HTC.....
Dear xx-xx,
Thank you for your email regarding your HTC Flyer.
My name is David and I am a Technical Support Agent for the HTC Written Team.
I understand that you wish to enquire if the Ice Cream Sandwich (Android 4.0) update will be made available for your tablet.
We really do appreciate your interest in our products Tristan. I do apologise but the HTC Flyer would not be receiving the ICS update. This is because this update is not compatible with this device. HTC has tested this update extensively on the HTC Flyer and can confirm that this device is not capable of running this update.
I do apologise for the inconvenience this may be causing you.
To let me know I have successfully answered your query, please follow the link below to close your enquiry, you will have the opportunity to leave feedback about your experience contacting me today.
Let me know if I have successfully answered your question, please click here to complete this.
To send a reply to this message, please click here.
Sincerely,
David
HTC
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I'm not worried, I'm sure the mod community will come up with a solution for us, but I'd hate to lose the scribe functionality, is anyone clued up enough to suggest if developers are going to be able to retain that?
Not compatible, lmao whatever. Why is it so hard for tech support people to just say "I apologize but I am just an employee and I am uninformed of these kind of decisions ".
Sent from my HTC Flyer P510e using XDA Premium HD app
What a load of crap don't take his word for it just wait and see for official word.
lol that's just a big fat lie xD
Since when does any Customer Service rep, for any company, have even the slightest clue what they're talking about?
Yeah do you have an email for that guy, so i can write him back and tell him he's full of it?
Not capable yet people on xda get ports working 75% of the way using another devices firmware
Doubt were going to see official
lol that's not official at all! silly customer service reps.
Well at least we can confirm that the HTC One X and EVO 4G LTE have been impounded by customs here in the US and are no longer for sale..... Thanks to Apple, so HTC ain't making a lot of people happy this month.
And this quote "This is because this update is not compatible with this device. HTC has tested this update extensively on the HTC Flyer and can confirm that this device is not capable of running this update. "
..............is straight out the Google / Vendor Android support agreement
Yeah the one where Google tried to force all the vendors to support with updates for 18 months. No vendor would sign up to that, so they inserted this escape clause in the agreement. 18 months IF THE DEVICE IS COMPATIBLE with the update.
HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA LOL LOLLOOLLLLLL extensive testing my A$$.....
HTC's testing amounted to "does this make us money? ...NO, , OK it's not compatible then !!"
The least they could do is to release the source code of whatever build (if any) they have been testing Flyer with, to the community!!
Incompatible with ICS..that is complete bulls***..we had a very similar response from Samsung when we asked for GB update for Galaxy 3 (my current phone). Thanks to a very active developer community here on XDA, we have not only multiple GB ROMs (including CM 7.2) but also ICS now..hope something similar happens to Flyer..screw HTC!
mohitster said:
The least they could do is to release the source code of whatever build (if any) they have been testing Flyer with, to the community!!
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HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA LOL LOLLOOLLLLLL extensive testing my A$$.....
HTC's testing amounted to "does this make us money? ...NO, , OK it's not compatible then !!"
Isn't the HTC one v basically the same hardware minus the front camera and half the ram? Their excuse doesn't fly. Either way this csr doesn't know anything anyway.
Sent from my HTC_Flyer_P512_NA using XDA
Even if the CSR knows nothing, what's been said before still applies. If HTC considered updating the Flyer to ICS, we would have seen leaked ROMs or at lease some leaked shots or videos of the device running it.
That being said, I highly doubt HTC plans any updates for us.
Cor-master said:
Not compatible, lmao whatever. Why is it so hard for tech support people to just say "I apologize but I am just an employee and I am uninformed of these kind of decisions ".
Sent from my HTC Flyer P510e using XDA Premium HD app
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Actually, that's not quite true. While they may not be part of the decision-making process, someone in HTC management drafted a response for the reps communicating with customers. This is the information that has been approved to share outside the company by this person. Someone is Legal or PR may have more information, but techs and CSRs only have what management gives them.
jsimonson0 said:
Actually, that's not quite true. While they may not be part of the decision-making process, someone in HTC management drafted a response for the reps communicating with customers. This is the information that has been approved to share outside the company by this person. Someone is Legal or PR may have more information, but techs and CSRs only have what management gives them.
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I would guess this verbage came from HTC corporate because
this quote "This is because this update is not compatible with this device. HTC has tested this update extensively on the HTC Flyer and can confirm that this device is not capable of running this update. "
..............is straight out the Google / Vendor Android support agreement
Yeah the one where Google tried to force all the vendors to support with updates for 18 months. No vendor would sign up to that, so they inserted this escape clause in the agreement. 18 months unless THE MANUFACTURE DETERMINES THAT THE DEVICE IS NOT COMPATIBLE with the update.
It doesn't matter anyway, any update we get will just be slow, laggy, and buggy. It would be nice for developers but then again the hc update was so bad developers couldn't fix it either so yeah it doesn't matter.
Anyway I say the csr doesn't know what he's talking about because this is the third different thing they've said recently. They told me on Facebook that they are still evaluating, they told another member August, and they told the op its not compatible. Who's actually giving the right answer?
Sent from my HTC PH39100 using XDA
A honeycomb minor upgrade for the current bugs would be much better and more probable if many users mention the GPS issue since it's important. This update might bring other minor bugs if demanded a fix for the Current honeycomb.
j510 said:
A honeycomb minor upgrade for the current bugs would be much better and more probable if many users mention the GPS issue since it's important. This update might bring other minor bugs if demanded a fix for the Current honeycomb.
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I think it would be the better option. An ics update would just be rushed and buggy. Fixing honeycomb would do more good. It's more than just Gps, honeycomb runs slower, and uses more battery. I don't care about hardware buttons though, honeycomb isn't designed to use them anyway and I prefer the virtual buttons as they are better placed.
Sent from my HTC_Flyer_P512_NA using XDA
Related
We need to bug HTC to get what the people want. To do so, you can tweet them and email. Remember, be professional!
Twitter: @HTC and @HTCDev
Send them both tweets about releasing the source for the Amaze.
I tweeted Faux and he said this to me:
https://twitter.com/faux123/status/205121987000016896
Also, E-Mail them.
http://htcdev.com/contact
Tell them why we want it and how it will benefit us AND them.
Here is what I wrote:
HTC has made a promise to help to development community by releasing the source code as well as unlocking the bootloader for their devices. However, the TI WLAN source code has been withheld from the community. This slows development and can even cease development for the device completely. Without the source code, developers will have to develop blindly and hoping not to break anything in the process. The Amaze 4G has great potential due to his hardware and power that it harnesses. Android is an Open Source OS, but HTC is sounding more like Apple, holding their source from the public. People purchased the device to experience the "Real Feel" of Android by customizing it, installing Custom ROMs, tweaking it, etc. Without the WLAN source code, we, as a community, have starting to lose faith in HTC and some of us have even pledged to never purchase an HTC device again due to HTC's policies. The community will like for HTC to rethink their strategy and be "Open" with the community. The best form of advertisement is by "The Word-of-Mouth". When our community, the tech savvy and the owners of a smartphone, see how HTC listens to their customers requests, they will become more profitable and retain/gain new and loyal customers.
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Follow along my lines but don't copy and paste it. Be truthful to them. Open your mind/heart. Tell them why we want, why it will help, why it will help their image with consumers, how it can lead to more business and brand loyalty.
hasoon2000 said:
We need to bug HTC to get what the people want. To do so, you can tweet them and email. Remember, be professional!
Twitter: @HTC and @HTCDev
Send them both tweets about releasing the source for the Amaze.
I tweeted Faux and he said this to me:
https://twitter.com/faux123/status/205121987000016896
Also, E-Mail them.
http://htcdev.com/contact
Tell them why we want it and how it will benefit us AND them.
Here is what I wrote:
Follow along my lines but don't copy and paste it. Be truthful to them. Open your mind/heart. Tell them why we want, why it will help, why it will help their image with consumers, how it can leave to more business and brand loyalty.
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Will do
Sent from my HTC Amaze 4G using XDA
ı did it
HTC responded to me
Dear Odai,
I understand you would like to have certain source codes like the WLAN drivers to the development community. I realize that this information is of great importance to you. The only source code we have available is the full source code available on the HTC Developer website at http://htcdev.com. We do not currently have an option to send individual parts of the source code separately. Any parts of the kernel source code that are not included in the released source code on the website should be considered propriety and not available for release. Please visit http://htcdev.com/contact to leave comments about this feature. I thank you for sending your email to HTC today.
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My response to that
Since HTC is committed to helping the development community, hence HTCDev has been started, there have been a fair share of issues that is being withheld from us. There has been a lack of support for certain devices since new flagship phones have been released. For example, the HTC Amaze 4G is a device with great hardware, but HTC has not given us full support due to the face of the HTC One series being released. As a business student, I understand what is being done. HTC would like their new flagship phones to sell and give less support to older devices. However, we are being left out and since this is my first non-Nokia device, I feel betrayed by HTC already. I purchased the Amaze 4G due to its hardware and I know it can unleash its true potential, only with the help of HTC. However, this is not the case. There are devices with over 10 custom made kernels and how many does the Amaze have? Only one and that is for Gingerbread and it has slight modifications since the full source has not be released. This is a huge setback to us users. We have barely any type of custom ROMs. We have not AOSP (Android Open Source Project) ROMs since we need the full kernel source to even make a kernel that is compatible with AOSP ROMs.
The Sensation development is sky high booming with plenty of developers. As a developer for the HTC Amaze 4G, looking at the Sensation development is heart breaking. The Amaze is truly better, but yet has no support from those who created it. It is like leaving a baby in the street. You do not do that.
HTC needs to realize for those who purchase their devices and would like to retain loyalty to HTC, HTC needs to treat their customers back as well. Without us, HTC is nothing.
As I stated earlier, this is my first Non-Nokia device and I already feel betrayed by HTC. If HTC cannot fix their act and be committed to those purchase their devices, they will lose customers significantly.
There should be a way to release the full source to us HTC Amaze 4G owners by talking to other companies that have their hardware in the Amaze. If that cannot be done, this will be my first and last HTC device ever.
So do what you can and stay committed to your program for us HTC users. Without your support, we feel betrayed since the company is not living up to their word. For us, it is hypocrisy while you guys believe it is business. The best business is customer support. If customers are not given what they have been truly promised, HTC might as well just shut down or reallocate to another industry. Just my opinions and my response.
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Just in case anyone needs some ideas on what to write. As Hasoon has said, don't copy and paste, make it legit!
As I hope others before me have sent an email to you regarding the same topic, I as well am writing to you in regards to the TI WLAN source code for the amaze that you have yet to release. I have been loyal to the HTC brand since the touch, and felt that your move to the development communities has been terrific, and have become quite involved with the development community myself, and look forward to help developing the amaze to its full potential and to have full freedom over the device. I know that there has been at least one statement released already regarding the WLAN driver's release, and that it is proprietary, and if that is the case, I'd like to get some more information regarding that statement, if/when you plan on ever releasing it, and why it is proprietary to begin with. There are many other devices out there that HTC has been very co-operative with, but fail to see why with the Amaze, a device that the way I see it is still extremely capable yet now not the hot phone to have, especially with your ONE line out, so the release of the driver would make sense to me, but withholding the code now does not. I hope this email along with others I hope are being sent regarding the same issue will persuade HTC to be as open as possible with the developers out there and show us that HTC still stands by its position to be a 'developer friendly' company.
The TI drivers source code belongs to Texas Instruments. HTC only has license to use it. TI is more of the root of problems. This kind of problems have been existing in linux community for life. Developers have to reverse engineering most of the drivers.
Should we maybe write TI about it instead?
JonathanBarca10 said:
Should we maybe write TI about it instead?
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We can do both. We have to pressure both companies.
Sent from my HTC_Amaze_4G using Tapatalk 2
Does anybody know what TIs history is for something like this?
this is what i got back
Dear Xavier Veras,
Hello, Xavier, and thank you for contacting HTC regarding your concerns with the T-Mobile Amaze ICS kernel source code. I understand how important it is for you to have this information for your phone. As you stated in your email to us, you aren’t talking about the Gingerbread source code, but I would like to note that the source code for Gingerbread is available on our htcdev.com website. The ICS software for the Amaze is relatively new for us, having just released a couple months ago. It does take time for the code to be compiled and we aren’t trying to keep it from you or our other customers. Also, the Amaze does have Sense 3.6 when upgraded to ICS, as do all our devices, thus far, that have received the ICS update. Unfortunately, though it is available for customer use, we don’t support the htcdev.com website and do not know if or when the kernel source code for ICS will be released. I apprecate you contacting us with your concerns and thank you for being an HTC customer!
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EclipzeRemix said:
this is what i got back
Dear Xavier Veras,
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You can call bs on that.
One X source code is released.
Sensation Source code is released. ---> They got ICS 5 days after us
One V source code is released.
Respond back to them and tell them that. They are lying to the customers. How did other devices get it so quick when they say ICS is new?
You have to take the initiative.
hasoon2000 said:
You can call bs on that.
One X source code is released.
Sensation Source code is released. ---> They got ICS 5 days after us
One V source code is released.
Respond back to them and tell them that. They are lying to the customers. How did other devices get it so quick when they say ICS is new?
You have to take the initiative.
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I replied this
That is false, the HTC One X,S, and V all got there kernel source, so did the HTC Sensation with Sense 3.6, and we got our update 5 days apart. Not only that but the Amaze is always let down with everything, we still dont have a WiFi source either. Tell HTC to get their act straight because I'm very likely to but another phone from another company soon. We need this source, I paid 500 dollars for a phone that I don't completely own because of the missing source. Thank you for your time but something has to be done
Sent from my HTC_Amaze_4G using Tapatalk 2
EclipzeRemix said:
I replied this
That is false, the HTC One X,S, and V all got there kernel source, so did the HTC Sensation with Sense 3.6, and we got our update 5 days apart. Not only that but the Amaze is always let down with everything, we still dont have a WiFi source either. Tell HTC to get their act straight because I'm very likely to but another phone from another company soon. We need this source, I paid 500 dollars for a phone that I don't completely own because of the missing source. Thank you for your time but something has to be done
Sent from my HTC_Amaze_4G using Tapatalk 2
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You want to call them out. You have to tell them basically you know your facts and you aren't stupid. Companies think customers are stupid (for the most part, they are right.) But you do have to tell them you know your stuff. I'm still waiting for them to respond to my second response.
EDIT: Apparently I overlooked this and thought it was an automated message.
They said
I appreciate you getting back with us; and I thank you for your input concerning the availability of the kernel source codes for our Android devices. I hope you have a nice day.
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My response right now was
I would like a response to what I have said. HTC has released source codes for the One X, One V, Sensation BUT not the Amaze. The Sensation has received the ICS update 5 days before the Amaze and they have their source code released. You totally blew off my last response and reasons like this is why I am disappointed with HTC. I am not surprised that HTC is not a BBB accredited business. With the way they handle customers, they really should shut down. Take care of customers and then they will take care of you. You guys apparently don't believe in that and it shows.
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Just read this. Apparently HTC releases source codes between 90 - 120 days
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1682917
I got my reply,
Dear Andy,
Thank you for contacting HTC Andy! I apologize that we do not have any information on when/if that driver will be released. The best place to look for updates on that information would be the htcdev.com website or Facebook/Twitter. Thank you for being a loyal HTC customer. We appreciate your commitment. I hope that you have a great day!
So basically I'm emailing my cousin, or uncle, because I would've gotten the same reply from them! What a joke, time to turn it up a notch.
edit: reply
I feel as if my original question was not answered, I'm contacting the company regarding an issue about their product, and felt as though I was getting a reply from a third party or someone unfamiliar with their own products. I'm looking for answers for the Amaze TI WLAN driver, and am requesting the release, or the date of release for that driver. Other phones in your product lineup have had their full source codes released, phones released before and after the Amaze, and in the case of the sensation, mere days after receiving its ICS update. I'm sure there is somebody I could either write or speak with that would be able to answer my question, I, along with many others in the development community feel it would be in HTC's best interests to release the driver. You would be helping those in the development community fully explore their devices, and in turn improve your company image as a top phone manufacturer and developer friendly company.
HTC's reply:
Thank you for getting back in touch with me Andy. I’m sorry that there was some confusion in our last email. As I stated before, we do not have any information on if or when the drivers will be released. Proprietary drivers are created by HTC for use on our phones and we are not by law, required to release the drivers. The open source codes are on the htcdev.com website but any drivers created by HTC, are property of HTC and will be released if we choose. HTC is committed to giving their customers the best experience possible so your concerns and requests have been noted. I apologize that we do not have any further information on if/when the drivers will be released but please check for updates on the htcdev.com website and/or Facebook and/or Twitter. I thank you for being a loyal HTC customer and I hope that you have a great day!
Booooooo
Done - the minute I read your post, Thanks
---------- Post added at 11:58 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:52 AM ----------
HTC's reply:
Thank you for getting back in touch with me Andy. I’m sorry that there was some confusion in our last email. As I stated before, we do not have any information on if or when the drivers will be released. Proprietary drivers are created by HTC for use on our phones and we are not by law, required to release the drivers. The open source codes are on the htcdev.com website but any drivers created by HTC, are property of HTC and will be released if we choose. HTC is committed to giving their customers the best experience possible so your concerns and requests have been noted. I apologize that we do not have any further information on if/when the drivers will be released but please check for updates on the htcdev.com website and/or Facebook and/or Twitter. I thank you for being a loyal HTC customer and I hope that you have a great day!
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Maybe they ripped off some other company's/persons source to create the Amaze - so cannot release it jk
The responded to my message.
I can definitely understand how the previous agent’s answer would make you upset. I’ll be glad to help you, Odai. By law, all that we are required to release is the kernel source code. HTC will release source code in accordance with any applicable open source license terms, i.e. GPL v2.0. Other source codes, which are not required to be disclosed by the open source license terms, unfortunately cannot be disclosed by HTC, as they may be proprietary to HTC or its licensor.
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My response
Samuel, thank you for responding. Danielle blew off my message and that is not great customer service. However, I see conflicting interests from messages I have been told as well as other. Some of the users have been told
"HTC will typically publish on http://developer.htc.com or htcdev.com the Kernel open source code for recently released devices as soon as possible. HTC will normally publish this within 90 to 120 days. This time frame is within the requirements of the open source community."
Also, "Hello, (name omitted), and thank you for contacting HTC regarding your concerns with the T-Mobile Amaze ICS kernel source code. I understand how important it is for you to have this information for your phone. As you stated in your email to us, you aren’t talking about the Gingerbread source code, but I would like to note that the source code for Gingerbread is available on our htcdev.com website. The ICS software for the Amaze is relatively new for us, having just released a couple months ago. It does take time for the code to be compiled and we aren’t trying to keep it from you or our other customers. Also, the Amaze does have Sense 3.6 when upgraded to ICS, as do all our devices, thus far, that have received the ICS update. Unfortunately, though it is available for customer use, we don’t support the htcdev.com website and do not know if or when the kernel source code for ICS will be released. I apprecate you contacting us with your concerns and thank you for being an HTC customer!"
Why are the messages all conflicting? Some say it is not required, some say you have to wait 90 - 120 days when devices, like the Sensation, received the source code within 2 weeks of the ICS release. The management is either terrible or the staff is not properly trained.
Do you see why we are not happy with HTC? High Tech Computers is what HTC stands for, correct? HTC is also looking to help out the development community, correct? The only company that TRULY believes in the development community is Samsung. They acknowledged the work at XDA-Developers.com and they see how important it is to get in touch with those who love to customize their devices. Without releasing the source code to use so we can take advantage of OUR devices, you'll end up with unsatisfied customers and you will lose loyal customers. As a first time owner of an HTC device, I am pretty mad that I can't truly take advantage of it. I worked for T-Mobile for a few years and sold many HTC and Samsung phones. I always saw the Samsung owners are able to have full and true control of their devices. It is not the same however, with HTC.
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Remember folks! TAKE INITIATIVE! CALL THEM OUT! TELL THEM WHAT OTHER COMPANIES ARE DOING! Be a man! lol
one more try:
There was no confusion with your first reply, I understand that HTC has no legal mandate to release anything it doesen't need to, so again, no confusion. What I am confused about is the reason the amaze driver has been held back, when other devices have had their full source codes released, and still there was no reason given as to why the WLAN driver can not be released. Other phone compaines out there like samsung seem to co-operate with developers better then HTC does, so its a shame that I can't get an answer for a simple question. And the reason provided, 'because we don't have to' isn't a good one, I'm sure there's a reason why, someone in the company must know something relating to this issue, and those in the development community are left in the dark on the topic. So no, there is no confusion regarding this topic, I fully understand HTC's stance on what is theirs and what is required by law, but considering your desire to be involved with development with HTCDEV.com, what I don't understand is why I can't get an answer that actually answers my question, a question directly relating to development. As you have said in the last reply I recieved, 'your concerns and requests have been noted', this lack of communication and understanding has also been noted by myself, and it will directly influence me on my next phone purchase.
Can I say progress?
Dear Odai,
Thanks for getting back to me, Odai. I’m honestly not sure why there is conflicting information. The first email that you quoted contains the correct information. The time frame that we generally release new kernels is 90 to 120 days. Though I don’t know why the Sensation’s source code was available so soon, there’s no reason I can see why the Amaze’s wouldn’t be released within the 90 to 120 time frame previously mentioned. Since the Amaze 4G is part of the bootloader unlock program, the latest source code will be posted to htcdev.com when available. Due to the inconsistency of the responses you’ve seen, I can definitely understand why you and others would be so unhappy. Personally, I’m going to do what I can to make sure this addressed and prevent conflicting and misinformation in the future. I agree with you that members of the developer community have the right to this information and only with that can they push their devices to the limit. If there’s anything else I can do for you, please let me know. Thanks again for taking the time to contact us and for being an HTC customer.
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My response
Samuel, I am glad that you have acknowledged the issues and the inconsistency in the messages we are given. I commend you for that.
As a Recognized Developer on XDA-Developers, as well as speaking on behalf of the Amaze 4G community, we would like HTC to work a deal with us. We need the source code, the full source code I should say, to help our development for the Amaze.
Reasons are as follows:
1. It will retain customer loyalty.
2. It will increase in sales/customer database.
3. Receiving a better name for the company.
I will explain how it will for each reason.
1. As I have stated, it will retain customer loyalty. When customers see the company taking care of them and fully addressing their issues, customers will be happy, even if the problem is not fixed. They see HTC cares and tries to do their best. HTC has well built all around devices and that is why customers continue purchasing HTC devices.
2. The sales number will increase. It may be a slight amount, but when customers enjoy their phones, they will continue purchasing the devices in the future. When I show my friends what my phone can do, it blows their mind. I have friends who purchase the phone I have because I show them what it can do and what their phones cannot do. Remember, the best advertisement is word-of-mouth.
3. A company should be a people company. HTC shows that they care about the development community by opening HTCDev. That is wonderful to see someone has been paying attention to us. Samsung does promotions specifically for XDA-Developers. They have truly recognized our community and they even hired a developer! HTC should see how big the customer base of XDA-Developers, CyanogenMod, RootzWiki and many other development websites/forums. When they show true interest in us, we will defend the company if someone speaks bad about it, etc.
All the reasons tie in with one another. Samuel, I believe you should pass our conversation along to the higher management. They should not blow our community off.
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Are you guys taking notes??
The survey website I'm using only lets me see the first 100 results but it did tell me about 120 people have taken the survey since I posted it yesterday afternoon. I'll post results later today.
Fellow Rezound users, I think the only way we'll ever get a useful reply from Verizon regarding the ICS update is to hammer them with inquiries and give them with some cold, hard stats to prove how dissatisfied their customers are. I encourage all of you to contact the Better Business Bureau and your state's Attorney General consumer fraud department and file official complaints. After you do that call and email Verizon. Don't be shy or apathetic about voicing your dissatisfaction. Make it clear to them that you've filed an official complaint.
I've also started a survey that will hopefully provide those statistics I mentioned above. As the numbers start building I'll post results for all of you to see and use. Feel free to offer any feedback. If you think this is a ridiculous, futile idea you're free to say so as well but please, regardless of which side you're on keep the comments mature and respectful.
Feel free to share this link. I want as many Rezound users as possible to speak up.
I'll post results as they come in, probably on a daily or every other day basis.
Click here to take the survey
RESULTS AS OF 8PM 8/1
Number of participants: 62
Total completed survey: 100%
Q: Do you own an HTC Rezound from Verizon Wireless?
A: Yes (100%)
Q: Was Verizon's claim that "an upgrade to Android 4.0 (Ice Cream Sandwich) will be available in early 2012" a major influence on your decision to purchase the Rezound over another device?
A: Yes (95.2%), No (4.8%)
Q: Have you contacted Verizon to inquire about when the update to ICS will be available for users?
A: Yes (62.9%), No (37.1%)
Q: If you answered "yes" to the above question - did the Verizon representative you communicated with claim that another company was responsible for the update and deny that Verizon had any control over its release?
A: VZW claimed responsibility: 20.0%
VZW denied responsibility: 80.0%
VZW blamed HTC: 81.1%
VZW did not blame HTC: 18.9%
VZW blamed Google: 57.6%
VZW did not blame Google: 42.4%
*24 particiants skipped this question
Q: Have you contacted HTC to inquire about when the update to ICS will be available for users?
A: Yes (46.8%), No (53.2%)
Q: If you answered "yes" to the above question - did the HTC representative you communicated with claim that another company was responsible for the update and deny that HTC had any control over its release?
A: HTC blamed Verizon: 80.0%
HTC did not blame Verizon: 20.0%
HTC claimed responsibility: 24.1%
HTC denied responsibility: 75.9%
HTC blamed Google: 20.0%
HTC did not blame Google: 80.0%
*30 particiants skipped this question
Q: How knowledgeable were the customer service representatives at Verizon Wireless?
A: Extremely knowledgeable: 3.2%
Very knowledgeable: 3.2%
Moderately knowledgeable: 30.6%
Slightly knowledgeable: 29.0%
Not at all knowledgeable: 33.9%
Q: How clear was the information the customer service representatives at Verizon Wireless gave you?
A: Extremely clear: 4.8%
Very clear: 4.8%
Moderately clear: 27.4%
Slightly clear: 21.0%
Not at all clear: 41.9%
Q: Do you plan on choosing another carrier and leaving Verizon Wireless when your current contract expires?
A: Yes (72.6%), No (27.4%)
Q: Have you contacted a consumer protection agency and filed an official complain towards Verizon Wireless for failing to keep their promise of a prompt update? If so, which agency?
A: Filed a complaint with the Better Business Bureau: 16.7%
Did not file a complaint with the Better Business Bureau: 83.3%
Filed a complaint with their state's Attorney General consumer fraud department: 13.3%
Did not file a complaint with their state's Attorney General consumer fraud department: 86.7%
Filed a complaint with the FCC: 21.7%
Did not file a complaint with the FCC: 78.3%
Please stop opening more threads about the ICS upgrade...
mjones73 said:
Please stop opening more threads about the ICS upgrade...
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I don't think a survey is a bad thing. If you don't like the post, don't look at it. Thanks.
People act like this is uncommon. It's not. People in the Galaxy Tab 10.1 forum were pitching their fits about slow updates too from Samsung. Got our update yesterday.
I think people need to just relax. It'll come when it comes. Delays are just part of software development and business.
mjones73 said:
Please stop opening more threads about the ICS upgrade...
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Mjones, I understand and agree that the random complaint threads are out of control. This, however, is intended to be more constructive and useful to the community. I hope you'll understand my intentions.
claydos66 said:
I don't think a survey is a bad thing. If you don't like the post, don't look at it. Thanks.
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The original poster was open to feedback negative or positive and I was polite with my response, don't like it, don't read it, thanks.
Does anyone think this will do anything? I mean anything other than annoying Verizon...
This happened with the Charge Gingerbread update. People were griping and complaining for months. Then the update dropped and within a week everyone immediately forgot they were ever upset. Everyone on Verizon who's had a phone in a software upgrade cycle has gone through this and *****ing won't do anything to help anyone. We are a minority and Verizon knows it. The vast majority of Rezound users don't know what Ice Cream Sandwich is and don't care if they ever get it.
The only thing these threads do in IMHO is give people a place to vent, it's not going to do anything to get Verizon to release this faster..
mjones73 said:
The only thing these threads do in IMHO is give people a place to vent, it's not going to do anything to get Verizon to release this faster..
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Actually, the greater problem is that every time I see a reference to ICS upgrade I get a futile glimmer of hope that it's finally been released...
Took the survey!
For the question regarding changing carriers, could you add the maybe option.
hchristy2013 said:
For the question regarding changing carriers, could you add the maybe option.
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That's not a bad idea but changing the question now would erase the data I've gathered so far.
das0527 said:
That's not a bad idea but changing the question now would erase the data I've gathered so far.
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Nevermind then.
Sent from my ADR6425LVW
badogg said:
People act like this is uncommon. It's not. People in the Galaxy Tab 10.1 forum were pitching their fits about slow updates too from Samsung. Got our update yesterday.
I think people need to just relax. It'll come when it comes. Delays are just part of software development and business.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Some Galaxy Tab 10.1 owners got their update yesterday, not all.
I received the below e-mail today. I did not appreciate being contacted out of the blue via e-mail; if you feel the need to contact me, use XDA's tagging feature. With that said, I thought I'd reply in public with my thoughts on the matter, hoping to drive a constructive conversation about Verizon Wireless' restrictions for devices on their network. My initial response is in post 2.
Please, think through your responses before posting. Make sure they ADD to the conversation.
What do you think of having everyone from XDA and the CM community using the DINC 4G LTE file Better Business Bureau complaints against verizon? It made a business decision not to give us updates, and has deliberately removed the DINC 4g from the HTC Unlock program. They shouldn't be allowed to abandon the platform and to remove unlocking ability that was there.
BBB asks them to respond within 14 days. [edit: link removed]
or have you already tried this route?
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I will leave it up to the writer of the e-mail if he/she would like to make himself/herself known here.
Can you point to a single advertisement by either HTC or Verizon that the Droid Incredible 4G LTE would ever be included in HTCDev's unlocked bootloader program? Even HTC's generic advertisements include disclaimers that some devices may not be included due to various restrictions (the most obvious being carrier refusal). HTC can justify the ability to unlock the bootloader pre-public availability as a means to let developers directly related to software development and quality assurance alter the ROM before release. To a handful of end users who get the device in the early days of release, they get to sneak in and use the unlocker under the "Other devices" category of the program. I suspect we owe HTC a thank you for dragging their feet for a week before disabling the unlock ability for this (and several other) device(s). There is no legitimate complaint that can be filed towards Verizon concerning this matter since they never advertised this as an available feature.
On the topic of abandoning the platform, software-wise, the last available software update for the Incredible 4G still works with reasonable stability and all advertised features are enabled. It is natural for technology devices to age and need replacement; a balance has to be struck between user content or disdain and extent of support. Verizon has apparently deemed there will be very little blowback by prematurely ending software updates. Considering the number of users I see in the XDA forum section for this phone, I'd guess they're right. About the only sticking point that could be leveraged to force a software update out of Verizon is if there are security vulnerabilities that are either being actively exploited or pose a real threat of being exploited in the near future.
Succinctly, we are at the mercy of Verizon's "generosity" concerning extended functionality of, and software updates for, the phones on their network. With these thoughts, I believe we can only ask them to help us out... with reason, anger, begging, or whatever tactic you find most influential. I don't think we can force their hand.
Your thoughts XDAers?
I agree with mdmower. Having come from the OG Droid, I had zero expectation for HTC or Verizon to let me unlock the phone. While I did not expect this phone to be the left-handed, red-haired step-child twice removed orphan of Verizon, it is a great phone with a 4" screen. The size is good (still prefer OG Droid) and the processor and internet speeds are great. I personally am quite content with this phone. We have been blessed with some extremely talented developers and supporters who have
Developed a method to unlock despite HTC/Verizon
Developed two methods for s-off:
DirtyRacun - IMHO, unlimited.io did a great job
FacePalm - Haven't tried, but looks great
Two great recoveries:
Official CWM Recovery, Plus PhilZ
TWRP Recovery
Developed an Incredible Rock Solid Sense ROM in ViperLTE
Developed a solid, official CyanogenMod ROM .
There are probably more, but those are just off of the top of my head. I am also still seeing great ongoing development work for ROMs for this phone. Sure, this phone doesn't have the plethora of ROMs that the OG Droid, Dinc2, Rezound, or [insert model here], but what we do have is solid.
I'm not exactly sure what Verizon owes us. We have a great phone with a great 4GLTE network (at least in my area). It should also be noted that Verizon actually put out an OTA for the OG Dinc around 2+ years after its release with "Improvements and fixes". I would expect the same for this phone as well. I too believe that threats, anger, etc. will not do anything more than generate ill will.
Just my $0.03.
P.S. Why do we still care if there is an "official" bootloader unlock? As mentioned above, we have a proved method to unlock bootloader and/or gain s-off. Even HTC's site says that unlocking bootloader through their "official" site may void your warranty.
HTC Dev said:
Please understand that you will not be able to return your device to the original state and going forward your device may not be held covered under the warranty for all claims resulting from the unlocking of the bootloader. HTC bears no responsibility if your device is no longer usable afterwards.
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The only thing to take away from this is to avoid Verizon and HTC. They may not owe us anything more than we received, but they are clearly sub-par companies compared to others. Unfortunately, I can't ditch Verizon just now because I'm on a shared plan, but I will never buy an HTC phone again.
junkmail9 said:
I agree with mdmower. Having come from the OG Droid, I had zero expectation for HTC or Verizon to let me unlock the phone....
P.S. Why do we still care if there is an "official" bootloader unlock?
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Just to clarify, I'm not content with the support Verizon has offered for this phone, I just realize that we cannot expect them to continue support. I am still not sure about the best avenues of communication with Verizon Wireless, so in a feeble attempt to get their attention, I write a short #openletter on G+.
A far as the official bootloader unlock, it is a little important. An example is the recently advertised CM installer (by the way, I do not have any insider knowledge about CM Inc.). The installer will almost surely be available only to devices with legitimate unlock ability. While the fireball is pretty much "a bit"-out-of-luck even if it did get official unlock, due to the inability to flash the boot partition while in recovery, at some point users need to convince Verizon Wireless to allow unlocked bootloaders for phones on their network. This is especially relevant to the many, many users who are wise enough to not tinker with their phones because of lack of knowledge. They deserve the opportunity to safely replace the legacy operating system on their phone, and this will only be possible if the carrier and manufacturer allow it.
The open letter seems pointless, besides maybe allowing other people to see and take note that Verizon ignores certain customers. As far as our phone though, no point really. Anyone you reach through G+, Facebook, Twitter, Verizon's customer service contacts, etc. will have no real power to do anything. They just give the typical "sorry, we're doing our best" garbage. The message never reaches anyone important enough to actually do anything. The only way a message may get to them is if the user base is very large, but even if we all wrote to them everyday it wouldn't help. Not enough people for them to care. As you said, we're at their mercy. Just have to wait.
mdmower said:
A far as the official bootloader unlock, it is a little important. An example is the recently advertised CM installer (by the way, I do not have any insider knowledge about CM Inc.). The installer will almost surely be available only to devices with legitimate unlock ability. While the fireball is pretty much "a bit"-out-of-luck even if it did get official unlock, due to the inability to flash the boot partition while in recovery, at some point users need to convince Verizon Wireless to allow unlocked bootloaders for phones on their network. This is especially relevant to the many, many users who are wise enough to not tinker with their phones because of lack of knowledge. They deserve the opportunity to safely replace the legacy operating system on their phone, and this will only be possible if the carrier and manufacturer allow it.
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Click to collapse
This is an excellent point I had not considered. I was not thinking about the larger issue, (nor am I savvy with the upcoming CM installer). Unfortunately, I have run into a few companies that have seriously dummied down their products because, as one tech support person told me, "some users may have a problem with the advanced features so we removed them." While I can try and understand that point, it was really frustrating because some advanced features I had come to rely on were removed in the product upgrade. Simply because some people could not comprehend how to use it properly? Is Verizon trying to protect us from ourselves, dummy down the phones for "the uneducated masses," or simply trying to force their customers to live with Verizon-installed bloatware?
Okay I have My own say to this.!
Okay so I left AT&T network when I owned the HTC Inspire 4g and moved on to Verizon because there service was better in my area and I purchased the HTC Droid Incredible 4G LTE as my first phone with Verizon, I came to like the phone because it was fast, snappy, and good on battery....... But I constantly waited for update to jellybean ( Sense 4+ ) which in reality would make the device more efficient and smoother than it was on Ice Cream Sandwich... And finally I heard the news that we were going to get an update to jellybean in the beginning of 2013.. But after so much time of waiting I finally gave up hope and said ***k the device and went back to AT&T...... and bought the HTC One XL because it recieved updates to sense 5. The device is like an older sibling to the inc4g with close to the same specs. I sold the Incredible 4g because I hated the lack of support for this device... The only good thing going for it was CM10 and the amazing sense kernel. This community deserves more than what has been given to them so far... So my question is why Verizon drop support for us.???? If this community received jelly bean j defiantly would sell my XL and come back to this community......
This is my only my concern.
Sincerely,
24ky
Sent from my HTC One XL using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
Here is a weird thought. let your money do the talking. leave Verizon. if enough of us leave we dont need to "change their minds". i brought this up in an HTC elevate detection not to long ago ( also how come htc bent over backwards because verizon wanted the bootload unlock for the ONE removed). instead of open letters or angry tweets and emails, just take your money to someone that appreciates you as a customer? put your money into a company that understands the development community and is willing to support you. how do you think verizon got so good? the used to listen to their customers. now that they are self sustaining they dont need to listen to us anymore. but i bet if their wallet was hit the would. they would bring back unlimited data, remove the block of google wallet, ect....
You wouldn't take your car to a mechanic that does great work but also makes you spend $$ money on things that don't need to be fixed.
my $.02
synisterwolf said:
Here is a weird thought. let your money do the talking. leave Verizon. if enough of us leave we dont need to "change their minds" i brought this up in an HTC elevate detection not to long ago. instead of open letters or angry tweets, just take your money to someone that appreciates you as a customer? put your money into a company that understands the development community and is willing to support you.
You wouldn't take your car to a mechanic that does great work but also makes you spend $$ money on things that don't need to be fixed.
my $.02
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This is my point from before. This is the only thing you can really do. I wish I could dump Verizon right now, but I can't. For now I'll just settle for never buying HTC again.
somerandomname1 said:
This is my point from before. This is the only thing you can really do. I wish I could dump Verizon right now, but I can't. For now I'll just settle for never buying HTC again.
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this too. maybe if HTC where to step in and help us it would be different.
OP not trying to troll or anything or start a war. i just wanted to get that out their. we do have an option to take our money somewhere else. or at least when this contract is over. ive said it before, i need unlimited data. i dont have wifi anywhere i work and im barely at home so if i have to give up my data plan i will give up my business too. im going to miss there unbeatable coverage but i cant stand to be hit in the balls over and over again with a smile on their face. :/
mdmower said:
I received the below e-mail today. I did not appreciate being contacted out of the blue via e-mail; if you feel the need to contact me, use XDA's tagging feature. With that said, I thought I'd reply in public with my thoughts on the matter, hoping to drive a constructive conversation about Verizon Wireless' restrictions for devices on their network. My initial response is in post 2.
Please, think through your responses before posting. Make sure they ADD to the conversation.
I will leave it up to the writer of the e-mail if he/she would like to make himself/herself known here.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My 2 cents on this from bitter experience. You will get zilch. You will waste precious amounts of your life trying hard to convince a rigid management who can care so little they'd be happy to break your phone to pieces and hand you another from their stockpile of dinc4g's just to get rid of them ASAP. I've gone through the whole lot with BBB complaints etc. for the Droid X2 by Motorola. haha, wasted my life there. And the countless pleadings to release the ICS ROM that HTC clearly developed for the Dinc2 (Incredible S, international variant got the ICS update) only to get on the Verizon chopping block and get its head unceremoniously severed, taught me one thing and that is we as consumers have knowingly chosen this path, that will give us limited to no flexibility on customization to stay on VZW and we have to "deal" with it.
With all good intentions, I request all to keep your expectations rock bottom. You have better chances of going to the moon on a future Russian spacecraft than convincing Verizon as to why this may be a good idea.
Sincerely,
A disgruntled Droid™ user.
here has been my android experience. started on og inc oct 2010 first droid phone considered ''high-end'' at the time (8 mp camera saaaaay whaaaat??!) then dinc2 great phone but compared to the galaxy S II and the galaxy nexus at the time it was a ''mid range" phone. now with the inc4g it is very ''mid range'' compared to what is out now. the galaxy notes and s4's and the 50 different htc One(s). if you want many different roms to flash to fix your ''addiction'' go nexus or one of the mainstream phones. you will find 100 different "Unofficial CM10.X" roms with "user tweaks" and "kernel tweaks" that in all actuality are nothing more then a reposync from source. yeah they might have a few different mods but they are usually so similar that you will not/could not tell the difference. like someone mentioned earlier I would rather have a few solid roms. a good sense (viper) or if you're an aosp guy like me there's cm. I think anybody who saw the specs of this phone (incredible 4g) and thought, "hey this is going to be the next BIG THING." I'm sorry to tell you that you were mistaken. xda dev support of a phone is only as good as the devs that own the device, and in our case we have a very small amount of active devs.
So I am the a-hole that emailed mdmower. I apologize profusely. When I saw your first post, I almost slunk away in shame, never to show my face here again. I am not even being a little bit facetious. You do great work for a community of people and I abused (what obviously is) an important rule. And I'm really sorry.
In an attempt to redeem myself just a little bit, let me point out one thing that you might not know:
mdmower said:
Can you point to a single advertisement by either HTC or Verizon that the Droid Incredible 4G LTE would ever be included in HTCDev's unlocked bootloader program? Even HTC's generic advertisements include disclaimers that some devices may not be included due to various restrictions (the most obvious being carrier refusal) [SNIP] There is no legitimate complaint that can be filed towards Verizon concerning this matter since they never advertised this as an available feature.
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Actually, some states may have more favorable law here. First and foremost, many states have an unfair/deceptive business practices law that are distinct from the false advertising law. Example: New York has GBL Section 349 (trade practices), and 350 (Advertising). These are consumer-oriented statutes and so they have some bite.
On this point, while Verizon has never said they would provide us with Jelly Bean, there are some nice facts here like how many people were locked into 2 year contracts on a phone that Verizon stopped updating during their two year period. I've seen suggestions that Verizon is pulling this with older phones in order to force upgrades, and if true, that would be the basis for a claim. But here, I think the HTCDev unlock is actually pretty damning. We should be entitled to take discovery into the real reasons why Verizon forced HTC to remove the phone from the program. Given the repeated warnings about waiver of warranty, and the presence of other VZW phones in the program, it's hard to believe it's a support issue.
Finally -- of note is that the ACLU has filed an FTC complaint on this subject earlier this year. Unfortunately I cannot post the link since I just registered for this post (long time lurker) but it's the 2nd hit for "april FTC complaint android" (see pages 6-9) Their basis is the potential for security flaws which go unfixed. The relief they are requesting is pretty broad. I'm actually surprised that there haven't been follow-on civil suits already.
Anyway, I am really sorry again. I'm going to crawl back under the rock I came from now.
If it's any comfort: my punishment is that my D4INC is a flicker model.
PrimePalaver said:
If it's any comfort: my punishment is that my D4INC is a flicker model.
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Haha burn! Just kidding... it's cool.
It's possible to write an email or something to HTC to relase the 3D camera drivers for the Evo 3D?
The Evo 3d's developement is gonna be dying,we don't want this
the old HD2 gets the new KitKat and they don't give up.I should we can do something together.I don't know who is capable to relase them drivers but I wanna ask they to do it.Maybe if we letter they it's possible to get the drivers
There is no polite way to say it, but if you email them, they will very politely say go f*ck yourself, we will not give you anything
With a big enough petition we MIGHT get them, but that has been tried before and none of them has gotten enough votes.
Sent from my Evo 3D GSM using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
1ackass said:
There is no polite way to say it, but if you email them, they will very politely say go f*ck yourself, we will not give you anything
With a big enough petition we MIGHT get them, but that has been tried before and none of them has gotten enough votes.
Sent from my Evo 3D GSM using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
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so sad
Actually, there is a way to have alot of chances to archive it or making HTC really pi$$ed off with developer scene.
My idea was to start up a petition that is written in a way that will make HTC feel massive discomfort to the point they will be forced to give an effective answer to the issue, a good one or a really bad one
.
You need to break down the issues and the reason of this petition as this:
1. This petition is done because, while in vague theory they do, technicaly the company does not provide the full sources that can lead to proper builds and this is effectively a GPL violation. (Rough explanation but you get the point)
2. You need to make it clear that your demands have nothing to do with asking the company to bring out a software update to the device and that any such claim or excuse is out of topic.
3. You need to point out that if so many other companies did the right move and released to the public such stuff, even companies that released them after they got defunct, you don't see why HTC wouldn't do it, especialy at a period that their integrity in the market is on trial and their feedback, support and marketing are the key factors that will have the first and the last word if they will survive the pressure.
4. Also emphasize on the fact that since you don't ask actually for a software update which could take hours and money to develop, you don't see the reason why they wouldn't release the drivers for 3D features which is a thing that could take as much as 5 seconds to do so on their dev site.
I want to start a petition for it but people on XDA are really better on these stuff so I wait for someone else with more reputation and experience to do such thing, or atleast a person that I could work on it together. I hope also XDA would spread out the word after the petition is done such it would be a pretty intresting thing to see (apart from the results) in the Android ecosystem.
So anyone with me?
We tried for our desire to write to HTC (flooding in the end) to release camera drivers to have it properly working with ion, but they answered that they couldn't give US them because they are proprietary (not HTC)
paolo-red1 said:
We tried for our desire to write to HTC (flooding in the end) to release camera drivers to have it properly working with ion, but they answered that they couldn't give US them because they are proprietary (not HTC)
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That's a cheap excuse if that's true. They could give you info with who's is responsible for them. It was a tricky answer and to be honest, it wouldn't be the first time they lie about stuff like that, and unfortunately it seems like it wasn't and won't be the last, we are seeing a trend here that needs to end asap.
VIRGIN KLM said:
That's a cheap excuse if that's true. They could give you info with who's is responsible for them. It was a tricky answer and to be honest, it wouldn't be the first time they lie about stuff like that, and unfortunately it seems like it wasn't and won't be the last, we are seeing a trend here that needs to end asap.
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Yes I know, we expect that after the behavior they had with newer devices, after all desire is 3 years old.
hi guys as some of you know a few of us are trying to port various roms to the htc one max, however this is proving very difficult as we do not have the kernel source code which is the main thing stopping us. Recently i have tweeted at @HTCDev on twitter asking them if and when they plan to release them, and i figured that many voices are stronger than 1 so if lots of people tweet @HTCDev we might have a standing chance of getting them just an idea !
you might have seen the other thread from which involved emailing HTC about the same thing and we did not get much of response there.. we can surely do this, but don't know if that will help
@PradeepVizz 16s
@htcdev hello, when can we expect the kernel sources for the MAX to be available for downloads?
Expand
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Yo whaddup whaddup pradeep.... Yo so to everyone and all I'm back! Sorry I took a little holiday break from posting and what not lol.. So I officially went out and bought a brand new hefty solid state drive some new ram and a nice little dev box and installed my favorite Linny dis Fedora! It's all set up for strictly Android development and Android development only!!!!!!!!!! Anyone who is down to do some work with me for all variants I'm specifically Verizon but I'll work on all of them with you guys feel free to hit me up..
As for the kernel source I spoke directly to Shauna from HTCDev on the phone as she called me twice until she actually got me cuz I lol screen my calls and when realized it was her again I answered.. When anyone sends an email through HTCDev "tell us what you want" it goes directly to her, so we actually established a relationship haha.. She told me for every email I sent and for all the emails I encouraged you guys to send that she pings corporate. Corp then sends them the source and they go ahead and upload it. She basically told me not to expect anything until as early as January 2nd when they start coming back from vacation from the holidays.. So it is coming, they are fully aware that it needs to be posted and they are indeed working on it for us..
So yes like I said I'm ready to go so hit me up peeps.....
pradeepvizz said:
you might have seen the other thread from which involved emailing HTC about the same thing and we did not get much of response there.. we can surely do this, but don't know if that will help
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Murrda said:
Yo whaddup whaddup pradeep.... Yo so to everyone and all I'm back! Sorry I took a little holiday break from posting and what not lol.. So I officially went out and bought a brand new hefty solid state drive some new ram and a nice little dev box and installed my favorite Linny dis Fedora! It's all set up for strictly Android development and Android development only!!!!!!!!!! Anyone who is down to do some work with me for all variants I'm specifically Verizon but I'll work on all of them with you guys feel free to hit me up..
As for the kernel source I spoke directly to Shauna from HTCDev on the phone as she called me twice until she actually got me cuz I lol screen my calls and when realized it was her again I answered.. When anyone sends an email through HTCDev "tell us what you want" it goes directly to her, so we actually established a relationship haha.. She told me for every email I sent and for all the emails I encouraged you guys to send that she pings corporate. Corp then sends them the source and they go ahead and upload it. She basically told me not to expect anything until as early as January 2nd when they start coming back from vacation from the holidays.. So it is coming, they are fully aware that it needs to be posted and they are indeed working on it for us..
So yes like I said I'm ready to go so hit me up peeps.....
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welcome back mate! Hope you had a great vacation! Happy new year to you and everyone around!
Excited to know your dev setup, I have got virtual box for Ubuntu 12.10 ready for the same. Thanks for the update. I am no kernel dev but want to start kicking things and yeah got some great support from you and the other guys.
There was another dev who left the device a few days ago, not sure what the reason was
The worst part i suspect is going to be after KitKat Update, which is like about 1 month away and we need to repeat the waiting again for that :/
Thanks for update! keep rocking!!!
Well as long as we get some type of source and better it being 4.3 source I'm sure Flyhalf won't have to much of a problem building us a solid CM11 using this sources.. I believe its pretty much what he did with the original HTC One but this was also on Verizon which is what I'm on.. Either way we should hopefully be getting somewhere very soon!!
Sent a "Tell us what your Want" to HTCDev. Tracking # 3936471
I also have a case open with HTC dev
Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk
Murrda said:
Yo whaddup whaddup pradeep.... Yo so to everyone and all I'm back! Sorry I took a little holiday break from posting and what not lol.. So I officially went out and bought a brand new hefty solid state drive some new ram and a nice little dev box and installed my favorite Linny dis Fedora! It's all set up for strictly Android development and Android development only!!!!!!!!!! Anyone who is down to do some work with me for all variants I'm specifically Verizon but I'll work on all of them with you guys feel free to hit me up..
As for the kernel source I spoke directly to Shauna from HTCDev on the phone as she called me twice until she actually got me cuz I lol screen my calls and when realized it was her again I answered.. When anyone sends an email through HTCDev "tell us what you want" it goes directly to her, so we actually established a relationship haha.. She told me for every email I sent and for all the emails I encouraged you guys to send that she pings corporate. Corp then sends them the source and they go ahead and upload it. She basically told me not to expect anything until as early as January 2nd when they start coming back from vacation from the holidays.. So it is coming, they are fully aware that it needs to be posted and they are indeed working on it for us..
So yes like I said I'm ready to go so hit me up peeps.....
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hey all! how have you been? the kernel source situation is getting a bit ridiculous! we are about to get the 4.4 update in a few weeks and still don't have the source code for 4.3, i can't imagine the wait we are going to have to go through for the 4.4 source code!
Yep. I have sent about 27 request to HTC Dev. The Answer is the same. "We have escalated your issue to Tier 2 for "Tracking".
I responded back saying.. I don't care about tracking.. I want to know when they will honor the GPL for release of the kernel.
The answer is "Sorry we do not have a ETA for the release of the kernel. Please keep an eye on our htcdev.com site and the sources will be posted there when released."
So I took to twitter and have been calling them out there asking for GPL compliance for the HTC One Max Kernel Source for both 4.3 now and 4.4 upon deployment.
Newest Email after I have been raising hell on twitter.
Dear Deadphoenix,
It is really nice to hear from you.
Deadphoenix, I totally understand what you are saying and in this case this situation, due to policies, needs to be handle by a higher department and that is why that I am asking you for your contact number, this will help me in order to pass this to the right department.
Please let me know this information and I will be more than glad to help you with this.
Have an amazing Wednesday, Deadphoenix.
Thanks for the effort mate
Here is my most recent email I sent to HTC Dev:
Hello,
From information I gathered from the Free Software Foundation (authors of the GPL) about this (as well as some other folks I know that have a better legal background than I), and I compiled the following information for you.
Brett Smith at the Free Software Foundation said, in response to your recent claims that the GPL provides for a delay: "HTC's reading is outrageous -- we honestly thought no respectable company would have the gall to publicly make this argument. A delay of 90-120 days is not reasonable, considering that they must already have the source code.". Clearly, then, the authors of the GPL did not intend for any provision for a delay to be present.
Other legally-trained acquaintances commented that allowing a delay there would easily lead to reductio ad absurdum -- i.e., if an arbitrary delay could be inserted in this contract (which HTC agreed to upon releasing the binary), then that would imply that an arbitrary delay could be inserted in any contract. In most legal cases, it has been shown that if something can be read as either being absurd or not being absurd, the not-absurd reading is the one legally taken.
You mentioned 3(b) of the GPL, which begins that you must "accompany [the binary distribution] with a written offer, valid for at least three years [...] a complete machine-readable copy of the corresponding source code", and it seems that the second clause there -- "valid for at least three years" is the crux of it. Currently, the distribution does come with an offer, but the offer is not valid -- when I asked for the source code, HTC was unable to provide it for me, claiming instead that it would be given to me at an unspecified point in the future. This is not acceptable.
I note also that legal interpretations of a work tend to consider not just the strictly written details, but the intent; when details are in dispute, the overall intent is then referred to. The goal of the GNU GPL is to enhance the freedoms of anyone who receives the software, and to force one who might modify the software and distribute it for their own purposes to publish their changes back to the community. The GNU GPL does not have any provisions for temporarily withholding source for competitive or other reasons; the agreement that one must make when one distributes a binary is that one must also distribute source. Not doing so at the same time would be a violation, not just of the letter, but of the spirit of the contract; the goal of the GNU GPL is to enrich the freedoms of the commons through which software is distributed.
Given these four points -- the FSF's reading, the reductio ad absurdum, the letter of section 3(b) of the GPL, and the spirit of the GPL as a whole -- it is clear that the GPL requires that HTC release the source for the kernel at the same time or earlier than the binary. To that end, I request that you, within 24 hours, provide me with a link to the source for kernel of the HTC One Max 4.3 as well as the 4.4 Kernel upon release of the binary to the public.
It is clear from the reading and intention of the GPL that HTC is currently in violation of the GPL requirements of making the Kernel Source available. I have a cc'd copy of this message prepared for the media outlets as well in anticipation of HTC's denial again of the Source Code. If you are unable to assist me please escalate my message to the appropriate authority capable of making the decision to comply with GPL.
Sincerely and Seriously,
hopefully, somebody who reads and speaks english will get your email..
nicely worded!
:good::good:
wase4711 said:
hopefully, somebody who reads and speaks english will get your email..
nicely worded!
:good::good:
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mate, that email is quite old, dates back to days of EVO days - http://users.livejournal.com/joshua_/41833.html
but still a good effort by @DeadPhoenix to send HTC the email.
pradeepvizz said:
mate, that email is quite old, dates back to days of EVO days - http://users.livejournal.com/joshua_/41833.html
but still a good effort by @DeadPhoenix to send HTC the email.
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Yep. That's the source. I use it for my response to HTC when they reply that there is no set limit to release source.
sneaky....but hopefully effective!
wase4711 said:
sneaky....but hopefully effective!
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Supposedly someone from HTCDev Support Tier 2 is calling me today about a GPL discussion.
We shall see.
Don't forget to ask for 4.4 lol
DeadPhoenix said:
Supposedly someone from HTCDev Support Tier 2 is calling me today about a GPL discussion.
We shall see.
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Good luck with that sir. From everything I've ever heard about this, it seems that HTC thinks that a 60-120 day grace period is acceptable, and that's all there is to it.
By all means though, fight the good fight. I've just resigned myself to heckling their marketing team about it on Google +.
What you're doing is probably more "constructive" though...
Sent from my HTC6600LVW using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
belly of the beast said:
Good luck with that sir. From everything I've ever heard about this, it seems that HTC thinks that a 60-120 day grace period is acceptable, and that's all there is to it.
By all means though, fight the good fight. I've just resigned myself to heckling their marketing team about it on Google +.
What you're doing is probably more "constructive" though...
Sent from my HTC6600LVW using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
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Click to collapse
Suprise... suprise they didn't call yet.