Related
I read, thread after thread, where people said that SenseUI was a huge slowdown for the benchmarks (Quadrant, NeoMark, etc) and that once the 3VO was rooted, it would be as fast as the Galaxy SII.
Now the root process is out and there are scripts to remove Sense. So, did the phone speed up at all or is the dual core Snapdragon just slow?
I'm past my 30 days, but I have had numerous issues with my phone. I am either going to swap it, or ask to just return it. Since the phone has this many issues, they usually will not care that I am at 33 days.
Anyway, I love HTC phones because of the hacking community, I loved my EVO4G and I like to think that the 3VO will get better with custom ROMs and kernels. But, if removing SenseUI and having root hasn't really improved performance, I may just skip this version and wait for the next EVO.
I don't care if it is as fast as the SGSII. I just want to see a good improvement.
LD
Benchmarks can't measure user experience, they are simply a tool for bragging rights.
Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk
After I disabled almost everything htc and sense related possible. I did see a significant increase in the browser performance. That's just something I noticed.
husker91 said:
Benchmarks can't measure user experience, they are simply a tool for bragging rights.
Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I understand that. Yet, that is mostly when you are comparing two different phones. When using just a single phone, they can be a great tool for measuring performance changes.
phatmanxxl said:
After I disabled almost everything htc and sense related possible. I did see a significant increase in the browser performance. That's just something I noticed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Great to hear. Is this just with the Android browser or also with, say, Dolphin?
I can't imagine what you consider fast. In my experience Samsung's phones always fall behind HTC in user experience speed, but do well with 3d acceleration
Sent from my PG86100 using XDA App
LordDavon said:
I read, thread after thread, where people said that SenseUI was a huge slowdown for the benchmarks (Quadrant, NeoMark, etc) and that once the 3VO was rooted, it would be as fast as the Galaxy SII.
Now the root process is out and there are scripts to remove Sense. So, did the phone speed up at all or is the dual core Snapdragon just slow?
I'm past my 30 days, but I have had numerous issues with my phone. I am either going to swap it, or ask to just return it. Since the phone has this many issues, they usually will not care that I am at 33 days.
Anyway, I love HTC phones because of the hacking community, I loved my EVO4G and I like to think that the 3VO will get better with custom ROMs and kernels. But, if removing SenseUI and having root hasn't really improved performance, I may just skip this version and wait for the next EVO.
I don't care if it is as fast as the SGSII. I just want to see a good improvement.
LD
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You go from saying it wasnt as fast.. to saying it had a bunch of issues to saying it wasn't fast enough again.
Do you honestly think the SG2 is going to be even noticeably faster without first watching a video of the 2 phones side by side?
No. I guarantee you wouldn't. But since you see a video of the SG2 loading 100th of a second faster....than gee whiz is this thing an abacus or what!
Are We Not Phones?
We Are D3VO!
Are we not phones?!
3.DeE.V.O.!!
LordDavon said:
Great to hear. Is this just with the Android browser or also with, say, Dolphin?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I only use the stock browser, but after freezing all the bloat, pages load faster and the bookmarks pull up a lot quicker. Just everything seems snappier.
husker91 said:
Benchmarks can't measure user experience, they are simply a tool for bragging rights.
Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
tell that to my exwife
Even removing a lot of sense stuff all the sense framework is still there. Sense won't fully be removed until there's a cm7/aosp build out, which will take a little while.
Not to mention someone is gonna have a LOT of work to get 3d to work with aosp source.I'm guessing a lot won't care about that(I don't), but some will. I'm gonna start messing around with some.aosp stuff this weekend.
sense or not, rooted or not. This phone is still fast. Faster than my og evo i know that. If i want to appreciate my e3d and its speed, all i need to do is grab my niece phone (my old evo which i gave to her).
You can wait for a senseless rom, but dont forget that sense gives you a lot of convenient apps within. Any rom that i flash will be a sense rom on my e3d.
Wait until there are some custom kernels available for this phone.
I've been hearing that the second core acts more like a failover than a true dual core, where if the first core is maxed, then it can take threads make a difference. I'm sure every custom kernel will make use of it in more of a multithreaded manner, and then you might see some big improvements in both benchmarks and real world use.
Also, I'm eagerly awaiting SBC. On the 4VO with netarchy's SBC kernel, I could get 36 hours out of a charge if I wanted to. On this 4VO, I'm lucky if I get 6 with the same usage pattern.
I'd say the sweet spot for 4VO development came 7 or 8 months after release. It will take some time for the 3VO to get to that level, but it will.
On a side note, now that root is out of the bag, I'd like to personally extend my middle finger in HTC's direction. Shame on you for making it this difficult and opaque. Shame on you for having two faces.
Y does it matter if ur phone is faster than another there is always gonna be a faster phone an Samsung does a great job with the software on there phones it has Hardware acceleration in browser so browser wise it won't be faster an Samsung is just better honestly hardware wise :-/ but yea 3VO is still fast period
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA Premium App
Jasonhunterx said:
Y does it matter if ur phone is faster than another there is always gonna be a faster phone an Samsung does a great job with the software on there phones it has Hardware acceleration in browser so browser wise it won't be faster an Samsung is just better honestly hardware wise :-/ but yea 3VO is still fast period
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA Premium App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Until you need to get directions somewhere!! I'm eagerly awaiting custom kernels and roms!!!
Sent from my PG86100 using Tapatalk
xjman said:
I can't imagine what you consider fast. In my experience Samsung's phones always fall behind HTC in user experience speed, but do well with 3d acceleration
Sent from my PG86100 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The SGSII is only brought into the equation because of the XDA forums. The phone is faster, yes. But, I am not going to get a Samsung phone. I only bring it up because it seems to be the "new benchmark" of phone performance.
My daughter has the Samsung Epic 4G. It has lag in some areas that my EVO4G never had. Although, it can do some serious graphics. So, I agree with you.
felacio said:
You go from saying it wasnt as fast.. to saying it had a bunch of issues to saying it wasn't fast enough again.
Do you honestly think the SG2 is going to be even noticeably faster without first watching a video of the 2 phones side by side?
No. I guarantee you wouldn't. But since you see a video of the SG2 loading 100th of a second faster....than gee whiz is this thing an abacus or what!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ummm.. No. Reread the OP. I said that I've read that SenseUI was bogging down the phone and that I've read people saying that without it, the EVO3D will be just as fast. I then talk about my issues with the phone, and the options that I have. I then state that I care only to see an improvement in speed.
With my EVO4G, I ran CM7. I am looking at running it again and would like the best phone for CM7. I am not getting a SGSII, but I am looking at the Photon 4G.
phatmanxxl said:
I only use the stock browser, but after freezing all the bloat, pages load faster and the bookmarks pull up a lot quicker. Just everything seems snappier.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks. I get a lot of lag during browsing and I mostly use Wifi. Some pages go fast, while others take forever. Although, most of my apps use the default browser, Miren and Dolphin are the two I select the most.
di11igaf said:
Even removing a lot of sense stuff all the sense framework is still there. Sense won't fully be removed until there's a cm7/aosp build out, which will take a little while.
Not to mention someone is gonna have a LOT of work to get 3d to work with aosp source.I'm guessing a lot won't care about that(I don't), but some will. I'm gonna start messing around with some.aosp stuff this weekend.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Awesome info! Thank you. I don't know much about SenseUI and how deeply it is integrated. I wouldn't mind poking around with some AOSP myself.
I tried getting CM7 downloaded once. I went to the page with the source code and got lost in all of the forks. There were so many different repositories, I didn't know which to look at.
If you can shoot me a PM with some of the locations your pulling, I would be more than happy to give you a hand. I work as a developer, but have been on the same code base for the last 4 years. I've been wanting to play with Android for a while. I work mostly with Java, but I also do a little C and C#.
charlie hustle said:
sense or not, rooted or not. This phone is still fast. Faster than my og evo i know that. If i want to appreciate my e3d and its speed, all i need to do is grab my niece phone (my old evo which i gave to her).
You can wait for a senseless rom, but dont forget that sense gives you a lot of convenient apps within. Any rom that i flash will be a sense rom on my e3d.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I do like a lot of the new features, but the weather app FCs on me a lot. I have also had it maxing my CPU quite a bit. I put an app on my phone called Watchdog, and it is alerting me when it gets over 40% now, so I can kill it.
I find that the swipe sensitivity is too high for switching home screens. A quick flick and the screens start spinning. I also get graphical screw-ups on the icons and widgets. I have also had the phone hang up for 30 - 45 seconds (estimated) when leaving an application. I am guessing it has to do with SenseUI refreshing.
I loved SenseUI on my EVO4G. I am not sure I am loving it on the 3VO. I wanted to because there are so many different ways to tweak it now. Although, I did get bored of Sense after a while and liked having all the different download options after moving to CM7.
Maybe there will be an optimized SenseUI ROM that I will like.
ZachPA said:
Wait until there are some custom kernels available for this phone.
I've been hearing that the second core acts more like a failover than a true dual core, where if the first core is maxed, then it can take threads make a difference. I'm sure every custom kernel will make use of it in more of a multithreaded manner, and then you might see some big improvements in both benchmarks and real world use.
Also, I'm eagerly awaiting SBC. On the 4VO with netarchy's SBC kernel, I could get 36 hours out of a charge if I wanted to. On this 4VO, I'm lucky if I get 6 with the same usage pattern.
I'd say the sweet spot for 4VO development came 7 or 8 months after release. It will take some time for the 3VO to get to that level, but it will.
On a side note, now that root is out of the bag, I'd like to personally extend my middle finger in HTC's direction. Shame on you for making it this difficult and opaque. Shame on you for having two faces.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I wonder if that is why the battery life is so bad. I was only getting about 3 hours before. Now that I have Watchdog killing rogue apps. I can get about 5.
Jasonhunterx said:
Y does it matter if ur phone is faster than another there is always gonna be a faster phone an Samsung does a great job with the software on there phones it has Hardware acceleration in browser so browser wise it won't be faster an Samsung is just better honestly hardware wise :-/ but yea 3VO is still fast period
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It doesn't matter if it is faster. If you reread my OP, I never say I want it faster.
franky_402 said:
Until you need to get directions somewhere!! I'm eagerly awaiting custom kernels and roms!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ha! All kidding aside though. You did remind me of one of the features I liked about the EVO3D. It has both aGPS and GPS.
--------------------------------------------------------------
To everyone:
I guess those of you who are HTC fans or Samsung haters want to read more into this than it really is.
It really is simply that I am having issues with my 3VO. I can either return it and get a different phone or get another 3VO. If I get another 3VO, I'm glued to it for the next 11 months. That is, of course, unless they change Premier again.
I am just hoping that the performance improves with the root. Many of you are happy with its performance. I'm not. Maybe the other issues are causing the performance issues. Maybe they aren't. But, if I switch it out for another 3VO, I am stuck with it.
So, I thought I would ask the question in a forum of users, hackers and developers.
One thing I will have to admit, the ROM developers are running at full speed!
Anyway, a quick update. I went to the store and all they would do is reset my phone. This is after I told them I already reset it twice. So, I have to wait a few days and go back. Still having all of my issues.
I'm not in the mood to buy a new phone that is worse off than my current one. Since none of the reviews mentioned it for the One X, I don't expect them to bother looking at it for the EVOLTE. Any news on this?
Same concern here.
Also seems as if the SGS3 is following suit with the same aggressive multitasking system.
dont buy it then lol
im still getting it. people love to ***** about the smallest things.
Perhaps a reviewer who has it can tell us
flex360 said:
dont buy it then lol
im still getting it. people love to ***** about the smallest things.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This isn't my asking if the back cover gets fingerprints. This is a real functionality issue.
Saneless One said:
I'm not in the mood to buy a new phone that is worse off than my current one. Since none of the reviews mentioned it for the One X, I don't expect them to bother looking at it for the EVOLTE. Any news on this?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's an issue to people who aren't on XDA & feel it's an issue.
Not worried about it. Root, Custom Kernels & a Custom ROM will be dictating how aggressive the TK runs.
I think most people don't realize that it's probably more of an ICS issue than an OEM one. When the Galaxy Nexus first came out people were complaining about the same thing, but you don't hear much about it anymore with the update to 4.0.3 and 4.0.4.
My Evo 3D with the ICS leak (4.0.3) doesn't do this so I'm not to worried about the Evo LTE doing it either.
I have a loaner Evo lte and it doesn't seem to have this issue. I started playing a video on youtube, then jumped to the browser. I surfed the internet for over a minute, and switched back to youtube. The video was on pause. Once I hit play it restarted where I left off. Then after watching the video for more than a minute, I switched back to the browser. The webpage did not reload and displayed what I was previously viewing. Seems all good to me.
mark4ksu said:
I have a loaner Evo lte and it doesn't seem to have this issue. I started playing a video on youtube, then jumped to the browser. I surfed the internet for over a minute, and switched back to youtube. The video was on pause. Once I hit play it restarted where I left off. Then after watching the video for more than a minute, I switched back to the browser. The webpage did not reload and displayed what I was previously viewing. Seems all good to me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That sounds awesome, but my real question for you is this:
Is the phone amazing?
mark4ksu said:
I have a loaner Evo lte and it doesn't seem to have this issue. I started playing a video on youtube, then jumped to the browser. I surfed the internet for over a minute, and switched back to youtube. The video was on pause. Once I hit play it restarted where I left off. Then after watching the video for more than a minute, I switched back to the browser. The webpage did not reload and displayed what I was previously viewing. Seems all good to me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh great! That is reassuring. I hope it holds true for demanding apps as well.
great!
one x issues http://www.androidauthority.com/htc-one-x-multitasking-problem-apps-killed-off-86498/ and http://www.fun47.com/htc-one-x-and-s-disappointing-in-terms-of-multitasking/
PsiPhiDan said:
That sounds awesome, but my real question for you is this:
Is the phone amazing?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I really liked it. My current phone is the Evo 4G, so I'm a little out of date. The screen is amazing, as expected. The phone is quite a bit bigger which surprised me. Not too big by any means, but definitly bigger than I expected. It's nice and thin and feels more sleek. One thing my wife mentioned was that the machined aluminum edge felt 'sharp', like maybe it needed to be deburred or rounded. It wasn't a compliant, just something she noticed. I had no issue and thought it felt great.
The camera was very nice. It takes pictures very fast. One slight dissapointment was the time it took to turn on the camera when pushing the manual camera button on the side. I expected instant readiness, but it took maybe a second or so. The onscreen camera button launches the camera faster.
I actually like the multitask button. It instantly popped up the app screens and rolled back the previous app. Kinda nice that it doesn't start on the current app and require you to scroll back. My current Evo now seems slow having to hold the 'home' button. I kinds miss the menu button. The menu in differnet apps can be on the bottom, top, or not have one. I found myself hunting for it sometimes.
That's all I can think of now. I had to give it back Sunday night. Overall the phone is great, and I can't wait to get my pre-order from sprint!
settings> Developer Options>Don't kill activities
cttwarnock said:
settings> Developer Options>Don't kill activities
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For real. Why are people complaining so much? How long have we had ICS now? If you don't know your menus and settings by now, don't even bother complaining here.
General users, yeah, more understandable, but not us. But still, if something isn't working right, check your Settings and see if you can change something. Is it really that hard?
Sent from my PG86100 using Tapatalk 2
cttwarnock said:
settings> Developer Options>Don't kill activities
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
RegnierD said:
For real. Why are people complaining so much? How long have we had ICS now? If you don't know your menus and settings by now, don't even bother complaining here.
General users, yeah, more understandable, but not us. But still, if something isn't working right, check your Settings and see if you can change something. Is it really that hard?
Sent from my PG86100 using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If the two of you were staying on top of this story, you would know that checking this doesn't help. Even with that option checked, HTC has changed the settings within the kernel to kill open tasks at a much more aggressive rate than ICS normally would, in order to allow sense to be smoother. They just pushed an update to the international version that helped, but the issue is still there. Personally I don't think it's a big deal, but it is something that can't be changed through checking that item off.
The more you know...
/reading up on an issue and doing some research before posting - is it really that hard?
fachadick said:
If the two of you were staying on top of this story, you would know that checking this doesn't help. Even with that option checked, HTC has changed the settings within the kernel to kill open tasks at a much more aggressive rate than ICS normally would, in order to allow sense to be smoother. They just pushed an update to the international version that helped, but the issue is still there. Personally I don't think it's a big deal, but it is something that can't be changed through checking that item off.
The more you know...
/reading up on an issue and doing some research before posting - is it really that hard?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've only had my EVO LTE for a few hours, but I'm already noticing that apps are reloading a lot more than they did on my EVO 4G. Specifically with the stock browser and titanium backup (woot for root!). It's not a deal breaker, but it is annoying.
Phone activation restarted for me. I'm guessing that's the aggresive task killer at work. D:
Delvorak said:
I've only had my EVO LTE for a few hours, but I'm already noticing that apps are reloading a lot more than they did on my EVO 4G. Specifically with the stock browser and titanium backup (woot for root!). It's not a deal breaker, but it is annoying.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
dude i just asked why it was reloading all most of my widgets on my home screen(my evo 3d did not do that)
when i go into settings and hit back botton to exist
it starts reloading my widget on home screen
then it wont accept htc mail widget on home screen
gonna do factory reset and see what happens
anyone with any ideas
Just did a factory reset and it went away
Sent from my EVO using xda premium
And I don't think it's related to the SoC. I think it might be more related to Sense, or HTC in general. The phone is fast, but there's some situations where it's very slow. Could be ICS too, I'm not sure. I notice that when switching between apps, or if I go a while without cleaning out open apps, I get a lot of lag. This is a concern because it never happened with my E4GT (I never bothered closing apps on that phone unless they were using GPS or something, and I HAD to).
Also (and here's one I'm sure everyone can try) when I'm looking at a photo in the gallery, and I click the "share" button, it takes 3-4 full seconds before the menu finally pops up. Is this normal? Again, never happened on my old phone. I might just be grasping for straws here, but it's the little things that bug me.
I'm running ViperROM 1.2.1 (I believe), and I've done the dual-core enhancement. I'm also running Nova PRIME.
Anyone else notice these kinds of annoying things?
I think it is sense/htc. Although the current cm9 is still what I'd consider in alpha stage, look at the rom zip, ~200MB vs close to 600MB for the other roms floating around. Add maybe 50-80MB to the cm9 for gapps, and you're still less than half of stock. All that bloatware has to run somehow. I think as time goes on, it'll be determined exactly what can safely be stripped away from sense to reduce bloat. Officially, the phone is hardly a week old, unofficial a bit over 2 weeks. Give it a month or two.
True. Good to know I'm not the only one
I'm actually pleasantly surprised at how popular this phone is with the dev community. I mean, root was available before it was in the hands of the masses, lol.
Can't wait for CM9! Ran CM7 on my OG EVo and LOVED IT! I just hope getting LTE to work on CM9 isn't as painful as getting Wimax to work on CM7
Given how much I used wimax with the old evo, if CM should comeout without functioning LTE, i'll still switch. By that time, LTE should be rolled out in chicago in masses, and hopefully 3g performance will be what it should be (1-1.5mbps down /1mbps up). For what I do, that's more than enough bw.
I already use different third party apps for practically every fundamental function of the phone. Converting from sense to something else will be real easy this time. With the old evo much time was spent trying different apps out to figure out what works best or gives a good user experience.
It would be nice if sense camera functionality was ported over in full. One thing htc did get right with the phone was the camera and the app.
Try a different launcher like Nova Launcher and see if it's still slow.... Maybe try a different rom.
I too have noticed slowdowns when using the phone after some time....
DarkManX4lf said:
Try a different launcher like Nova Launcher and see if it's still slow.... Maybe try a different rom.
I too have noticed slowdowns when using the phone after some time....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OP says he's using Nova Prime.
Sent from my EVO using XDA
gpz1100 said:
It would be nice if sense camera functionality was ported over in full. One thing htc did get right with the phone was the camera and the app.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ehhh, it's hit or miss for me. I've taken some very nice shots, but honestly the majority of my low-light shots have looked like absolute crap. The app's native AUTO settings are pretty bad for low-light shooting. Even the presets aren't that good. I have to manually adjust the expose and contrast to get anything remotely good. Daylight shots, however, are absolutely brilliant.
I have the paid version of CameraZOOM FX, but I don't think it plays very well with this camera. The exposure and color levels look good in low-light shots, but the pictures come out very out-of-focus for me. Not sure what that's related to.
But yeah to the other member who mentioned it, I'm using Nova Prime and it made my experience a whole lot better over the Sense launcher. Still not where I want it to be, though
Either way, very happy with the device. Screen is beautiful and the device itself is sexy as hell.
Don't complain if you're using a rom. Roms are not perfect. Not the phone fault. This should be put in that rom's thread
edub186 said:
Don't complain if you're using a rom. Roms are not perfect. Not the phone fault. This should be put in that rom's thread
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, it shouldn't.
PsiPhiDan said:
OP says he's using Nova Prime.
Sent from my EVO using XDA
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmm that really sucks... I get lag too and it's kinda annoying.... Looks like we'll have to wait for the devs to fix this problem or an update from HTC.
Memory management is much too aggressive with HTC's factory settings. Apps get bumped out of memory too easily. I had the same issue. I suggest you try this -
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1681183
My device (I'm loathe to call it a phone, it's SO much MORE... ) runs much better with Mr. V's mod - and I still get great battery life.
EDIT: Don't forget to nandroid first!
HTH,
-Jerry
JerryGNYC said:
Memory management is much too aggressive with HTC's factory settings. Apps get bumped out of memory too easily. I had the same issue.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have to say I don't think it's just the memory management problem. In fact, I wish there were less "management" and more "memory". In today's world of ICS, large screens, memory-hogging GPUs, and background apps, most Android phones don't have enough memory to run all the apps we would like to have. Especially for power users.
Since the OP was using ViperROM, he/she already has the memory optimizations you pointed suggested. As do I, although, I placed them there manually on Stock. Memory management will only get you so far. I still get quite a bit of performance hits when switching apps. Worse than that though, I get apps that have been killed in the BG and thus didn't fully save state so when I go back to them, I've lost the work I've done. Truly annoying.
HTC (and others) need to get a better imagination in terms of future-proofing (or even now-proofing) their products. I bought the LTEvo based on timing (contract renewal), reviews and loyalty for HTC (been on it since the G1). I can only assume that the reviewers didn't put on many apps when they reviewed the product.
Every time I've upgraded, I've been unhappy with the amount of space available - particularly RAM since the SDcard is upgrade-able. 1GB was "ok" in the GB- era. I'm looking forward to my next upgrade when HTC will (finally) get it right ... I hope.
@ailima -
You're right. I must have been running on fumes when I read the OP.
I tried ViperROM, but went back to stock. I noticed lag after awhile.
On my OG EVO, if I wasn't running CM7.x, I'd either have MikG or Tommy Tomatoes Classic. Both odexed ROMs. IIRC, Aamikam has said that odexed performs better, and I believe him. Also, my experience bears this out. Stock with the dual-core ultimate mod is running way better for me than stock without.
Hi,
First of all, I did a forum search and it seems that not a lot of people are experiencing the same problem as me with the GS3 (almost all related entries are about HOX).
I own an international Galaxy S3, recently updated to Jelly Bean (Vodafone Spain firmware). Thing is multitasking management in my device is a complete crap... for instance, if I open the Kindle app (or the web browser or any other app), then open another app, wait 20 secs and open Kindle again through the multitasking button... it works as expected, reopening the app in the same state it was... but if I wait around 4 or 5 minutes, multitasking doesnt work, this means when I try to reopen the previous app, the S3 redraws it (refreshes it) so I lose the page i was reading on Kindle or the webpage and scroll I had opened in Chrome, etc etc etc.
It just seems to me that memory management in this device goes like this: "Do a kill -9 to every running app process after a given (short) amount of time".
I really like Android and all that but, coming from an iPhone 4 as my previous phone, I've got to say that multitasking management in iOS was far superior... I could reopen apps that had been several hours in background and it always saved the app state, never experiencing these annoying "refreshes" or "redraws" or whatever it's called.
Is there any fix for this? Maybe some custom ROM with better memory management??
I just want to subscribe this thread. Interesting question!
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1888081
There, enjoy 7+ apps at the same time.
There are several threads about this already... I know, because I made one of them and there was another one with the same subject. ("Multitasking issues?" And the other one was something with ram
To the topic, I'm having the same issues, but on the galaxy S2 I didn't experience such problems. I don't know but something is really f***** up with the memory management...
You can try making a swap partition, there is a thread somewhere on here about how to make one. That'll dump some memory on the SD CARD. Instead of killing the app..
I can assure you it is not a general android problem. As on the s2 with the same amount of memory (1gb) I didn't have any problems. I thought this phone would be an upgrade.. it is in many ways, but the memory management is really a huge let down...
So my recommendation for you is to first try to remove the bloatware (apps of Samsung or other using memory which you don't need) and see if it makes a change.
If you're still not satisfied try the swap partition.
This phone with it's current software configuration needed 1.5gb of Ram, but with some mods and tweaks you'll be fine!
Sent from my GT-I9300 using xda app-developers app
Same problem here
http://android.caotic.it/2012/10/samsung-galaxy-s3-presto-jelly-bean-4-1-2-con-multi-window/
Inviato dal mio GT-I9300 con Tapatalk 2
Put Samsung and Google against the wall...
I'd argue that it is a general android issue. I had exactly the same problem with a htc One X, which also has a high res screen and only 1Gb of mem.
I think the problems with the S3 is ignored because lots of the reports on the web about the S3 is about the US version, which runs fine on it's 2Gb.
This IS a big issue, and i wish someone with a bit of authority would stand up and put Samsung and Google against the wall.
The customers shouldn't have to tweak the OS by adding adding virtual memory management, and whatnot to get basic functionality working.
I had no problems running web radio software in the background on my htc Desire, but with my S3 I can't have anything in the background basically.
This really needs to be resolved. I'd rather have a simpler launcher and having RAM enough to keep stuff running in the background.
I'm running JB since a week ago now, and the behaviour is the same.
I must say I'm dissapointed with Android, first having to live with the Desire for years, that came with next to no space to install apps and now th S3 having no RAM to run in...
Hans
GS3 Swedish 9300 w 4.1
hassebasse said:
I'd argue that it is a general android issue. I had exactly the same problem with a htc One X, which also has a high res screen and only 1Gb of mem.
I think the problems with the S3 is ignored because lots of the reports on the web about the S3 is about the US version, which runs fine on it's 2Gb.
This IS a big issue, and i wish someone with a bit of authority would stand up and put Samsung and Google against the wall.
The customers shouldn't have to tweak the OS by adding adding virtual memory management, and whatnot to get basic functionality working.
I had no problems running web radio software in the background on my htc Desire, but with my S3 I can't have anything in the background basically.
This really needs to be resolved. I'd rather have a simpler launcher and having RAM enough to keep stuff running in the background.
I'm running JB since a week ago now, and the behaviour is the same.
I must say I'm dissapointed with Android, first having to live with the Desire for years, that came with next to no space to install apps and now th S3 having no RAM to run in...
Hans
GS3 Swedish 9300 w 4.1
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Remember, this is the first Jellybean update batch, there should be tons of updates later fixing bugs instead of getting it "working", 1GB is enough when managed properly.
hassebasse said:
I'd argue that it is a general android issue. I had exactly the same problem with a htc One X, which also has a high res screen and only 1Gb of mem.
I think the problems with the S3 is ignored because lots of the reports on the web about the S3 is about the US version, which runs fine on it's 2Gb.
This IS a big issue, and i wish someone with a bit of authority would stand up and put Samsung and Google against the wall.
The customers shouldn't have to tweak the OS by adding adding virtual memory management, and whatnot to get basic functionality working.
I had no problems running web radio software in the background on my htc Desire, but with my S3 I can't have anything in the background basically.
This really needs to be resolved. I'd rather have a simpler launcher and having RAM enough to keep stuff running in the background.
I'm running JB since a week ago now, and the behaviour is the same.
I must say I'm dissapointed with Android, first having to live with the Desire for years, that came with next to no space to install apps and now th S3 having no RAM to run in...
Hans
GS3 Swedish 9300 w 4.1
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The US 2gb version has a max hidden app limit of 50 hence no complaints.
The others have a 20 max hidden app limit.
Most android devices have a 15 max hidden app limit and some sense roms it's as low as 10.
How do I know?
Because I fixed it
http://goo.gl/IvGL1
There are other vital changes that I make but Maximum Overdrive the biggie.
Skander1998 said:
Remember, this is the first Jellybean update batch, there should be tons of updates later fixing bugs instead of getting it "working", 1GB is enough when managed properly.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The problems are identical on 4.0.4, and I've not seen any acknowledgement on the issues neither from Samsung or Google. I used to think the Apple believers were the most tolerant to absent functionality, but this really puts us on the top as android users. I would probably accept it from a low end device for $100, but the S3 is the pinnacle, the superphone, in short, the dogs bollocks, or awesome, like a hundred billion hotdogs.
I think it just stinks and the thought of having to keep using the S3 every day for a year or two in the current sorry state really pisses me off. The thing is it's my work phone, and I don't expect I'll get a new premium phone if I try 'scrapgrading' it. If it was mine, I'll sell it in a hartbeat.
/Hans
The same non-existing multitasking brought me here. I got my GSG3 on Saturday, 4 days ago. Am loving it so far.
But one thing I was looking forward the most is mostly absent: switching between apps without them reloading every time I access them again.
I had a HTC Sensation (768mb RAM) where as soon as I left the browser and returned to it, the page was being reloaded, even if I just left quickly for checking my mails or whatsapp. Not cool if you're surfng on your mobile network and have a datacap. Same goes for Games.
Then I had a Xperia S (1 GB Ram) for a few weeks. Same crap. Even if I didn't leave the game but just clicked the standby button, the game would reload when unlockign the phone a few minutes later.
Am really disappointed to see this happen all over again with the Galaxy S3. iOS might not have real multitasking, but I'd take it any day over the crap we are being served.
Just ****ing freeze the app if you can't make it run constantly in the background, I don't care, I just want it to resume EXACTLY where I left it.
I always had the impression its because of low RAM. Even with the SGS3, my RAM is usually something like 730/833mb without really doing anything. Even after clearing memory it's still 614/833mb used. Of course stuff's gonna close.
I really wanted to go for a 2GB model but there simply is nothing on the market here in europe apart from the new Nexus 4. I actually wanted that one real bad - until I learned about 16GB, no SD Card slot and non-removable battery.
So yeah the SGS3 is awesome in many ways, but this blows. I have yet to find a phone that satisfies all my needs. Oh well maybe with the S4, but there's always something isn't it?>.<
before S3 a had a HTC Sensation..multi tasking din't work at all, it always refresh|reload apps
on S3 and android 4.0.4 i think multitasking work better but not so good
as far as i know the only one phone work well with multitasking is Google Nexus and the phones with clean OS from Google.
others brand make modification with OS for their launcher etc and multitasking was broken
This problem is so annoying. Even on my HTC Desire HD switching between apps worked better. I really hate Samsung for all the Touchwiz bloatware crap and for not releasing the Exynos sources/documentation.
Well, I don't have such problems, multitasking is working just fine here unless I open a 2 gb game or Google maps or Google Earth. My ram is between 530 and 640. I have some redraws on home screen sometimes, especially on the weather widget, I can't deny that. Also is true, no 2 gigs phone in Europe until now. I bought mine in May. I will get the S4 next year. Hope to see a better and faster phone.
Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2
demlasjr said:
Well, I don't have such problems, multitasking is working just fine here unless I open a 2 gb game or Google maps or Google Earth. My ram is between 530 and 640. I have some redraws on home screen sometimes, especially on the weather widget, I can't deny that. Also is true, no 2 gigs phone in Europe until now. I bought mine in May. I will get the S4 next year. Hope to see a better and faster phone.
Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
demlasjr, close all apps and then try opening a page in the browser, leave with home key. start a game, leave again. then open whatsapp/messaging and leave again. finally, open any other app (FB or youtube or whatever) and leave one more time with home button.
Thats just 4 (four) apps! By now the phone has killed your game and your browser. Just bring up the recent apps menu and switch back to the browser. It will reload your entire page from scratch, not a big deal when on wifi but a real pain in the ass when on mobile data. Now try switching to you game, it will reload from the starting screen instead of from where you left.
This IS an issue. People in denial are either oblivious to it (the average user sure is) or they don't mind their apps relaoding from scratch. I could make a nice video to show it since alot of ppl pretend they don't have the problem, but I'm too lazy to prove the obvious and since our international GSG3's all run on 1gb and more or less the same firmware, this simply can not be the case. What is possible is people using only 2-3 apps all the time, thus they never experience the problem. But there are others who don't use their smartphones only for texting and FB.
As a reference, see this thread http://androidforums.com/samsung-galaxy-s3/629432-multitasking.html. Exactly what I'm talking about.
Only remedy so far is installing aokp, it alleviates the problem a bit because it allows more open apps. it's still not good.
+1
Sent from my GT-I9300 using xda app-developers app
Vipeout said:
demlasjr, close all apps and then try opening a page in the browser, leave with home key. start a game, leave again. then open whatsapp/messaging and leave again. finally, open any other app (FB or youtube or whatever) and leave one more time with home button.
Thats just 4 (four) apps! By now the phone has killed your game and your browser. Just bring up the recent apps menu and switch back to the browser. It will reload your entire page from scratch, not a big deal when on wifi but a real pain in the ass when on mobile data. Now try switching to you game, it will reload from the starting screen instead of from where you left.
This IS an issue. People in denial are either oblivious to it (the average user sure is) or they don't mind their apps relaoding from scratch. I could make a nice video to show it since alot of ppl pretend they don't have the problem, but I'm too lazy to prove the obvious and since our international GSG3's all run on 1gb and more or less the same firmware, this simply can not be the case. What is possible is people using only 2-3 apps all the time, thus they never experience the problem. But there are others who don't use their smartphones only for texting and FB.
As a reference, see this thread http://androidforums.com/samsung-galaxy-s3/629432-multitasking.html. Exactly what I'm talking about.
Only remedy so far is installing aokp, it alleviates the problem a bit because it allows more open apps. it's still not good.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree with you bro....I am struggling to find an alternate solution to this problem as I don't want to root my phone as I just bought it 15 days back.
Sent from my GT-I9300 using xda premium
Read my post on page 1.
Its fixed.
Yesterdays update makes the fix all automatc.
http://goo.gl/IvGL1
zeppelinrox said:
Read my post on page 1.
Its fixed.
Yesterdays update makes the fix all automatc.
http://goo.gl/IvGL1
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To be honest, saying something is fixed, and then pointing people to a page that suggests a fix which is just as confusing and difficult to use as the supercharger script, which I could not get to work for love nor money, won't help the majority of people who want a nice and easy fix to something that requires a nice and easy fix.
I tried the supercharger script a number of times and could never get it to stick no matter what I tried so the multitasking patch surely will be just as difficult to get working for the layman as that.
What people really need is a CWM runnable file that fixes this issue.
I will personally use a custom ROM that manages to fix or at least alleviate the issues until Nexus 4 comes back into stock or the Optimus G comes out next year lol.
Vipeout said:
demlasjr, close all apps and then try opening a page in the browser, leave with home key. start a game, leave again. then open whatsapp/messaging and leave again. finally, open any other app (FB or youtube or whatever) and leave one more time with home button.
Thats just 4 (four) apps! By now the phone has killed your game and your browser. Just bring up the recent apps menu and switch back to the browser. It will reload your entire page from scratch, not a big deal when on wifi but a real pain in the ass when on mobile data. Now try switching to you game, it will reload from the starting screen instead of from where you left.
This IS an issue. People in denial are either oblivious to it (the average user sure is) or they don't mind their apps relaoding from scratch. I could make a nice video to show it since alot of ppl pretend they don't have the problem, but I'm too lazy to prove the obvious and since our international GSG3's all run on 1gb and more or less the same firmware, this simply can not be the case. What is possible is people using only 2-3 apps all the time, thus they never experience the problem. But there are others who don't use their smartphones only for texting and FB.
As a reference, see this thread http://androidforums.com/samsung-galaxy-s3/629432-multitasking.html. Exactly what I'm talking about.
Only remedy so far is installing aokp, it alleviates the problem a bit because it allows more open apps. it's still not good.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I tried mate. I tried with Tapatalk + whatapp + yahoo mail in Dolphin + cut the rope. Everything works fine and no redraws or refreshes. Only with Google Earth and Maps or very very big games. I can even make a video to shop you that I have no issues. Try this combination and let me know if you have redraws
Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2
Its probably not what you think.
Battery is superb.
The screen, OMG its nice.
Phone is smooth as butter, despite heavy Sense.
Build quality is great.
However, so many games that I truly enjoy and have purchased do not work. The legacy menu button on so many apps eats screen real estate, and it is ridiculous.
I am aware that these aren't really the phone's fault entirely, but if the phone isn't a big seller, developers are going to drag their feet. That means we see fixes in months and in smartphone years, that's ancient.
So while I believe software will catch up, it will be later when 1080p becomes more mainstream. By that time, I am looking for another phone. So why do I want to suffer with incompatibilities?
Please don't tell me to sideload my stuff; I am getting incompatibility messages on launch as well.
As for the legacy menu, this is a two-fold problem.
1. Developers are lazy and not updating to Android standards like they should.
2. There is an abundance of false legacy menus.
The first issue needs to be fixed by app devs, period. The second one baffles me. I have a Galaxy Nexus. Not one of my apps has a legacy menu in it because if they did I wouldn't use it. Yet, my phone doesn't have a menu key either.
However, I am getting legacy menus, even in some games. What is worse, these menus don't work, or they replicate a clickable menu in the game. Why??? My Galaxy Nexus didn't have that issue. I can't even enjoy the screen to its full potential with legacy menus. I am aware I can mod this myself, but that isn't the point.
I know they are small nitpicks, but I think the screen in all its awesomeness might kill it for me as well with incompatibilities. I am not naive enough to believe that these will be cleared up any time soon.
The little black bar on the bottom doesn't bother me at all. I barely notice it. Just another one of those "opinions will vary" things.
Sent from my HTC6435LVW using xda app-developers app
adrynalyne said:
The second one baffles me. I have a Galaxy Nexus. Not one of my apps has a legacy menu in it because if they did I wouldn't use it. Yet, my phone doesn't have a menu key either.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The fact that this exists is kind of odd. When the One X(s) launched they had the same set up and it was even more annoying having less screen real estate to work with. HTC fixed it in the 4.0.3>4.0.4 update a couple of months ago. Basically, the recent apps capacitive button became a toggle. You were given three options:
1) As-is; launch recent apps
2) Long-press=recent apps, short-press=settings
3) Long-press=settings; short-press=recent apps
Check out the Teg3 One X dev forum. You should be able to find a solution you can port there.
---------- Post added at 12:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:52 AM ----------
Here's what the menu looks like...
Ironically, HTC removed that option for the DNA.
It finally pushed me overboard. The app compatibility, that is. I returned the DNA. I got tired of playing Russian roulette with app purchases and wondering if I was going to run into a problem.
adrynalyne said:
Ironically, HTC removed that option for the DNA.
It finally pushed me overboard. The app compatibility, that is. I returned the DNA.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
VZW seems to enjoy butchering their devices from stock. There's a ton "enhancements" they made to the N2 that really don't make any sense. S-Planner is one of the coolest and most functional S-Pen enabled apps and they removed it and have Google Calendar set as the default. They also made the Wi-Fi notification toggle in to a Wi-Fi monitor so you have to go in to settings manually to turn Wi-Fi off and on. The N2 has a call and MMS blocking tool that they disabled also. Odd.
I agree about the menu button; it would have been better if it only took a small screen estate on either corners at the bottom instead.
As for compatibility issue, I have not yet came across that problem...well probably because I do not play any games. I'm sure many apps will start to optimize for the 1080p resolution, now that we have it on the phone.
I have been using Samsung Fascinate ever since it came out...even with the minimal level of developer support before it boomed with tons of roms, I had no problem using it for all of my essential needs. People usually assume that outdated devices are incapable of handling most tasks, but I think a single core is enough to cover a smartphone's functionalities. I bought the DNA because its spec somewhat overkills the current smartphone standards to the extent where it will be enough for another three or five years.
Technology will only continue to advance without ever having a "Peak", so I wouldn't stress over playing the waiting game for the next new thing to come out. Well, that's just me of course
another581 said:
I'm sure many apps will start to optimize for the 1080p resolution, now that we have it on the phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Now that a 1080P phone has hit the market you can expect the spec wars to continue. The rumored SGS4 is supposed to have a 1080P display as well as an unannounced LG phone. People with the N10 are having the same issue. So it'll get resolved in time it's a matter of whether you're willing to wait.
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/Smartphones-1080p-Screen-Retina-Display-HD,18639.html
BarryH_GEG said:
Now that a 1080P phone has hit the market you can expect the spec wars to continue. The rumored SGS4 is supposed to have a 1080P display as well as an unannounced LG phone. People with the N10 are having the same issue. So it'll get resolved in time it's a matter of whether you're willing to wait.
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/Smartphones-1080p-Screen-Retina-Display-HD,18639.html
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The only issue is that those 1080p phones won't hit the mainstream market until April-May timeframe. This even further emphasizes the fact that DNA is the phone from the future... As an early adopter, I'm loving it!
Sorry to hear you returned the phone, it was great having you in this forum. Enjoy your alternative phone choice!
I am also disappointed with game incompatibility, but keeping the DNA as I don't play that much. My son was upset about angry birds star wars turning up as a black screen though.
Sent from my HTC6435LVW using Tapatalk 2
cowisland said:
Sorry to hear you returned the phone, it was great having you in this forum. Enjoy your alternative phone choice!
I am also disappointed with game incompatibility, but keeping the DNA as I don't play that much. My son was upset about angry birds star wars turning up as a black screen though.
Sent from my HTC6435LVW using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you for the kind words.
I really hope the device takes off. It has a ton of untapped potential.
I don't really game so I haven't come across any applications that don't work on this device. My two primary applications, however, are Facebook and Twitter...and the menu bar at the bottom is just a straight up pain in the ass. I don't understand why they couldn't either 1) add capacitive menu button or 2) do the menu buttons like the Galaxy S3/Note 2 etc. It just seems like an awful design decision to me, and I'm surprised more reviews didn't pick up on it.
It's things like this that lends to consumers thinking that Android lacks the 'polish' of iOS. I know it's not Android's fault by design, but the average consumer doesn't tend to care about AOSP vs. Sense, etc.
HTC completely changing sense on every update is baffling. They are so terrified of their market loss that it appears they have zero confidence.
And what happened to the button remap mod in 4.1? Gone.
I think this may be my last HTC phone if they don't get their **** together
Sent from my HTC6435LVW using xda premium
adrynalyne said:
Thank you for the kind words.
I really hope the device takes off. It has a ton of untapped potential.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are definitely one of the most refreshing people that post here. I hope to see you around from time to time
Definitely admire your choice. I feel like the DNA is the better phone for me, but then again, I don't do any gaming. And the Note 2, with its screen size, S pen, memory and massive battery make it a good choice for you my friend. I wish I could own both.
Sent from my HTC6435LVW using xda premium
sorry to hear you returned it. When I seen your name on these forums I was excited because I always loved your work. I understand though
adrynalyne said:
Its probably not what you think.
Battery is superb.
The screen, OMG its nice.
Phone is smooth as butter, despite heavy Sense.
Build quality is great.
However, so many games that I truly enjoy and have purchased do not work. The legacy menu button on so many apps eats screen real estate, and it is ridiculous.
I am aware that these aren't really the phone's fault entirely, but if the phone isn't a big seller, developers are going to drag their feet. That means we see fixes in months and in smartphone years, that's ancient.
So while I believe software will catch up, it will be later when 1080p becomes more mainstream. By that time, I am looking for another phone. So why do I want to suffer with incompatibilities?
Please don't tell me to sideload my stuff; I am getting incompatibility messages on launch as well.
As for the legacy menu, this is a two-fold problem.
1. Developers are lazy and not updating to Android standards like they should.
2. There is an abundance of false legacy menus.
The first issue needs to be fixed by app devs, period. The second one baffles me. I have a Galaxy Nexus. Not one of my apps has a legacy menu in it because if they did I wouldn't use it. Yet, my phone doesn't have a menu key either.
However, I am getting legacy menus, even in some games. What is worse, these menus don't work, or they replicate a clickable menu in the game. Why??? My Galaxy Nexus didn't have that issue. I can't even enjoy the screen to its full potential with legacy menus. I am aware I can mod this myself, but that isn't the point.
I know they are small nitpicks, but I think the screen in all its awesomeness might kill it for me as well with incompatibilities. I am not naive enough to believe that these will be cleared up any time soon.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
nkgangew said:
You are definitely one of the most refreshing people that post here. I hope to see you around from time to time
Definitely admire your choice. I feel like the DNA is the better phone for me, but then again, I don't do any gaming. And the Note 2, with its screen size, S pen, memory and massive battery make it a good choice for you my friend. I wish I could own both.
Sent from my HTC6435LVW using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think he's holding out for the next group of super phones.
adrynalyne said:
Its probably not what you think.
Battery is superb.
The screen, OMG its nice.
Phone is smooth as butter, despite heavy Sense.
Build quality is great.
However, so many games that I truly enjoy and have purchased do not work. The legacy menu button on so many apps eats screen real estate, and it is ridiculous.
I know they are small nitpicks, but I think the screen in all its awesomeness might kill it for me as well with incompatibilities. I am not naive enough to believe that these will be cleared up any time soon.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wow, this post was spot on! I'm an android newbie and DNA is my fist phone without the menu button. So all this time I'm seeing these 3 dots at the bottom taking up precious real estate and I JUST signed up in this forum so that I could ask what is it and how to remove it. I'm glad I found this thread cause I've about reached the point where I'm ready to return this phone back!!
Let me ask you this, do you think it will better? Also in the end I didn't get it, is it the apps fault or is it HTC sense that's at fault for not letting us have a choice. Also one final question, are there any other mods that allow you to change the setting, making the recent apps button act like a settings buttion?
and lastly THANK you for sharing my frustration! At least I know I'm not alone or crazy for being so annoyed that I'm losing at least .3 of an inch. What's the point of advertizing that it's a 5" phone then?!
this phone will get better with time .. it hasn't been out that long , nor has the unlock... The devs are starting to rip it apart , and then the fun starts
My HTC DNA
Damented said:
sorry to hear you returned it. When I seen your name on these forums I was excited because I always loved your work. I understand though
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't believe he returned it yet.
Yeah I use to run your kernels on the Dinc adrynalyne
Sent from my HTC6435LVW using xda premium
latebeat said:
Wow, this post was spot on! I'm an android newbie and DNA is my fist phone without the menu button. So all this time I'm seeing these 3 dots at the bottom taking up precious real estate and I JUST signed up in this forum so that I could ask what is it and how to remove it. I'm glad I found this thread cause I've about reached the point where I'm ready to return this phone back!!
Let me ask you this, do you think it will better? Also in the end I didn't get it, is it the apps fault or is it HTC sense that's at fault for not letting us have a choice. Also one final question, are there any other mods that allow you to change the setting, making the recent apps button act like a settings buttion?
and lastly THANK you for sharing my frustration! At least I know I'm not alone or crazy for being so annoyed that I'm losing at least .3 of an inch. What's the point of advertizing that it's a 5" phone then?!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Note: it can be fixed through root and mods. HTC may patch it as well eventually.
robertmoore208 said:
this phone will get better with time .. it hasn't been out that long , nor has the unlock... The devs are starting to rip it apart , and then the fun starts
My HTC DNA
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh I know. The menu thing was fixable. It was the app compatibility that made me decide.