Quite strange that they declared the Xperia S to be the worst performer in the group and said:
But, it does look like the 12.1MP Sony Xperia S is the least impressive of the four devices, even with its megapixel superiority. The poorer quality can possibly be attributed to its lower cost and hence, cheaper hardware
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://www.androidauthority.com/xperia-s-vs-iphone-4s-vs-s3-vs-one-x-camera-fight-90384/
Watch out for even more "fanboy" reviews to popup.
I have seen this article yesterday, I dont know what's going on but. I had chance to play with IPhone 4g and HTC ONE X cameras and I have to say that my SONY XPERIA S is the winner. Whoever made this macro picture with bananas for XPS _ completely f **** it. For me this looks like an anti -Sony competition ...
Sent from my LT26i using XDA
Hmm...
I always take these photo reviews with a grain of salt. It is really the reviewers who make/break these sort of reviews.
He doesn't say whether he uses Auto-Mode, or anything like that. With standard settings I feel you aren't even capable of reviewing a camera properly...they leave it all up to the auto-mode to decide what settings to use.
Oh well, I know my Xperia S takes amazing pictures in comparison to most of those devices, that's all that matters to me, regardless of the random negative reviews here and there .
True. I am surprised to see such horrible photos taken with the Xperia S. XS can do much better than what the author managed. Pretty sure he used auto mode and didn't let the phone focus properly. Or maybe messed up the settings to make it seem worse.
well
XS camera is great and compare to my previous SGS 2, XS has fast focus and fast shutter speed.. even the color is better
https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/118344624379023636652/albums/5747354225338739793
Have you already tried any photos with low light.. they are pretty noisy i think the flash its not very good .. i mean my satio did better
tel033 said:
Have you already tried any photos with low light.. they are pretty noisy i think the flash its not very good .. i mean my satio did better
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That seems to be a software problem
Sent from my LT26i using XDA
shmoejoe said:
Hmm...
I always take these photo reviews with a grain of salt. It is really the reviewers who make/break these sort of reviews.
He doesn't say whether he uses Auto-Mode, or anything like that. With standard settings I feel you aren't even capable of reviewing a camera properly...they leave it all up to the auto-mode to decide what settings to use.
Oh well, I know my Xperia S takes amazing pictures in comparison to most of those devices, that's all that matters to me, regardless of the random negative reviews here and there .
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
fully agree there is full of fanboys with no respect for the tecnology look at this video for example
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A33-6M-XChs&feature=related
Sent from my LT26i using xda premium
Bad review I must say. I wonder if companies are paying reviewers to bash another company's product and make them less appealing. I find the iPhone 4S pics quite colour accurate but the Xperia S has much more detail and gives me perfect pictures. I seem to use my dSLR less since I got the S. I don't like HTC One X's camera. Just not as good. One reason I didn't consider it. Though I am not sure about S3. If it's close to S2's camera unit, I can crown my Xperia S as the winner
Sent from my wonderful Xperia S
waiflih said:
That seems to be a software problem
Sent from my LT26i using XDA
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Any tip or solution?
a4rocks said:
Bad review I must say. I wonder if companies are paying reviewers to bash another company's product and make them less appealing. I find the iPhone 4S pics quite colour accurate but the Xperia S has much more detail and gives me perfect pictures. I seem to use my dSLR less since I got the S. I don't like HTC One X's camera. Just not as good. One reason I didn't consider it. Though I am not sure about S3. If it's close to S2's camera unit, I can crown my Xperia S as the winner
Sent from my wonderful Xperia S
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can you upload some pics in low light please I'm having problems in normal conditions camera is great although sometimes a bit of noise but in low light AF problem but the worst is noise
Sent from my LT26i using XDA
tel033 said:
Any tip or solution?
Can you upload some pics in low light please I'm having problems in normal conditions camera is great although sometimes a bit of noise but in low light AF problem but the worst is noise
Sent from my LT26i using XDA
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The noise is caused by the small (better say tiny) light sensor on the phone. Sony makes the best sensor. I don't think any other phone uses better sensor than XS.
Photos from some phones "looks" better because they apply a stronger software noise reduction than SX does or they have a bigger apperture (e.g. HTC One X has F2.0 compare to F2.4 in XS). My solution to this is to apply noise reduction after I've loaded the photos to my PC using Lightroom.
Any way to applied it in the phone not in pc? Better is there a software to reduce the noise before shooting? You said that it's sensor was good but tiny right? So is it hardware problem ? Or software? Or both?
Sent from my LT26i using XDA
Wow!
Hold on!
Just one picture and tooken with auto mode and this whole review...?
What the hell is this. This doesnt even makes sense...
This is more like:
Hey buddy im bored, let pick up some phones and take pictures and put it on internet.
So "we" can read it and discuss it so they can laugh their ass of...
In another threats .. With no "auto" mode they made few compares...
Different stages, scenes etc...
The xs came the best out.. It just beat all of them..
4s to s2(whens3 was not out)
Every high end smart phone.. But doesnt mind..
Sent from my LT26i using XDA
^
Can you post link to the comparo where XS beat them all ?
The original review work comes from the mobile reviewer at cnet. Having read her reviews in the past she is very apple biased and seems unable to operate phones correctly.
In her original review of the xperia s (put up against iphone 4) she complained about the xs' camera taking 'letterbox' photos and that she prefered the iphones 4/3 images. If she'd of bothered to hit the menu button when using the camera she'd of found it was set to 9mp 16/9 and that a couple of clicks would of then set it to 12mp 4/3.
So dont expect her to have used anything but full auto mode.
The manual options in the xs' camera are great with things like target iso, and multi point auto focus.
If only they'd bothered to include the jpeg compression options as the default level dratically over compresses images and introduces artifacts.
Also on her low light test (and most of the tests tbh) ... the iphones colours look artificially over saturated (post process) the noise level on the iphone is also horrific yet she complains at the rest!
It's also funny to see her complaining about the iso effect, its probably because the xs and gs3 can change there iso and the rest cant! Try having some movement in the image and then see how well the iphone copes.
What is also funny is that the images have all been resized for web display, having 50% more pixels to start with gives you more options for post processing and thus noise reduction
So if we could adjust the jpeg compression the noise would be reduce right?
Sent from my LT26i using XDA
nit said:
The noise is caused by the small (better say tiny) light sensor on the phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's not strictly true, the noise comes from the software raising ISO in low light, all sensors from the tiny ones in a phone to a full frame 35mm one will suffer from noise as the ISO is raised. Its just that the bigger the sensor the higher the ISO needs to before it to become a problem.
If noise is a problem then just use Neat Image, nothing comes close to it http://www.neatimage.com/
The noise in this camera is not particularly bad, tbh in low light every digital camera will have noise because of the use of higher ISO. I think the 12mp sensor also make the noise more visible...I'm not sure about the technical details though...
Sent from my LT26i using XDA
The basic gist of iso levels is as follows.
For a given amount of light hitting the sensor (metered) an exposure duration is determined.
Increasing the iso level decreases the exposure time for the same amount of light.
A shorter exposure time reduces the signal to noise ratio significantly, but it also reduces motion blur. Noise can be post processed, blur not so much.
My old nokia n95 would have exposure times of over 2 seconds in low light conditions, chance that everything remained totally motionless in this time is very small!
The exposure duration is usually stored in the exif file, I hope her original files kept all this sort of info!
The xs' camera has potential because we can change the target iso value (though compared to a still camera they're still low) we can also change the metering method as well. I haven't seen either of these features before in a phone camera.
The only thing we are missing is the ability manually specifiy exposure duration.
You are also correct in that the higher pixel density of a sensor the higher probabiltiy of noise.
Ability to take raw photo's or 100% quality jpegs would be nice (people have done mods to enable 100% jpeg quality, but I cant root my phone at present to test it as i use sky go)
Edit - Just checked the exif info on the 'original full size' images and its been wiped file sizes are interesting though.
GS3 - 2.1mb, IP4 - 2.6mb, 1X - 1.5mb, XS - 2.0mb
Have just noticed all the 1x pics are 6 megapixel images in 16:9 format which seems suspicious to me. But it says it all for the XS when it has a smaller file size than the GS3 and IP4 yet 50% more pixels.
Rough rule of thumb is that you need at least 1/2mb per megapixel to avoid any degradation on a full image (ie no patches of black or white)
Related
I've been struggling with the SK17 picture quality. I've been very underwhelmed, the nr is very heavy handed and in general even under the best light conditions produces low quality pictures.
Then it dawned on me, there must be a picture fineness setting. Meaning, how much detail do you want the camera to capture. I had this thought after reviewing a number of pictures. None of them are greater than 1MB in size. A high quality jpg image will be up to 1.5MB in size.
Maybe Sony could add a fineness setting for the jpg capture?
A few other things I've found just by obervation.
Lowest ISO looks to be 64
Highest ISO 800
fastest shutter 1/1250
Note, not the easiest thing to get these values, as EV and sports mode need to be engaged.
Mike
this is the worst ever camera phone i ever had. videos are lacking in detail. we don't know if it will be rectified in the coming 2.3.4 update?
Yeah, not the best camera for non-bright conditions.
I installed an original gingerbread camera for some other Xperia device with the same sensor but modded to work for Mini Pro. And took some shots for comparison with the highest quality settings (Super Fine) on the original one. File sizes were about 30% larger but with no very little to no differences so i stuck with the Sony's one.
They're coming up with some camera tweaks for new update so maybe they'll manage to improve this aspect although i doubt it.
sulkie said:
Yeah, not the best camera for non-bright conditions.
I installed an original gingerbread camera for some other Xperia device with the same sensor but modded to work for Mini Pro. And took some shots for comparison with the highest quality settings (Super Fine) on the original one. File sizes were about 30% larger but with no very little to no differences so i stuck with the Sony's one.
They're coming up with some camera tweaks for new update so maybe they'll manage to improve this aspect although i doubt it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I hope they can come up with some improvements. Hopefully software can get better quality. The picture quality is even poor with very good lighting.
Something to note, the lens is rather small, I compared it to the C905a Exif data. the C905a is outfitted with a 6mm lens, the one in the Minipro is 4mm. That's a 33% difference in size!
I don't know the size of the W580i lens, it didn't come out in the EXIF data.
Mike
Maybe im not a demanding camera user but daylight photos look good enough for me, although they probably can be improved via software.
Only thing that i'd like to see improved is low light photos but i dont think software can help much there. Its much more dependant on sensor size.
We'll see.
sulkie said:
Maybe im not a demanding camera user but daylight photos look good enough for me, although they probably can be improved via software.
Only thing that i'd like to see improved is low light photos but i dont think software can help much there. Its much more dependant on sensor size.
We'll see.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're right, at the end of the day it's the sensor size/quality.
I'm assuming the camera is doing a lot of internal processing. NR as well as compression. Hopefully, they can do something about reducing both.
As you say, if the sensor isn't up to the task, it won't matter.
Mike
panamamike said:
You're right, at the end of the day it's the sensor size/quality.
I'm assuming the camera is doing a lot of internal processing. NR as well as compression. Hopefully, they can do something about reducing both.
As you say, if the sensor isn't up to the task, it won't matter.
Mike
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Its a crap cam.
Arc got a way better cam, but its a cost/marketing issue... see? They want to niche ray,mini,neo,arc,play
And this shows on the pricetag/targeting ads..
Basic marketing.
r33p said:
Its a crap cam.
Arc got a way better cam, but its a cost/marketing issue... see? They want to niche ray,mini,neo,arc,play
And this shows on the pricetag/targeting ads..
Basic marketing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well its the smallest and cheapest of them all so corners had to be cut somewhere.
Theres also the segmentation of products that you mentioned but every single manufacturer does it.
We all wish it was a bit better but its not 'crap'. And daylight pictures are decent.
Edit: Check out this comparison. Load up mini pro and arc and you'll see that Arc isnt actually that much better even though its 8mpix and device itself is highend-ish. Also load up Galaxy Ace which has 5mpix, it blows mini pro and arc out of the water. Same goes for xperia neo. 2011 Xperia phones have had sup bar cameras it seems. They all have the same imperfections, not much differences between them. http://www.gsmarena.com/piccmp.php3?idType=3&idPhone1=3713&idPhone2=3724&idPhone3=3619
sulkie said:
Well its the smallest and cheapest of them all so corners had to be cut somewhere.
Theres also the segmentation of products that you mentioned but every single manufacturer does it.
We all wish it was a bit better but its not 'crap'. And daylight pictures are decent.
Edit: Check out this comparison. Load up mini pro and arc and you'll see that Arc isnt actually that much better even though its 8mpix and device itself is highend-ish. Also load up Galaxy Ace which has 5mpix, it blows mini pro and arc out of the water. Same goes for xperia neo. 2011 Xperia phones have had sup bar cameras it seems. They all have the same imperfections, not much differences between them. http://www.gsmarena.com/piccmp.php3?idType=3&idPhone1=3713&idPhone2=3724&idPhone3=3619
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nice find! Looks like there are 2 main issues that make me unhappy with the PQ.
1: Is the noise reduction pattern, it looks to have a blotch pattern to me. It's not a pleasant constant grain like the iPhone 4.
2: Dynamic range looks pretty poor.
I think both of these could be due to the NR and compression algo. It would be nice if Sony would provide something better, or if it could be fixed via software.
It's a shame the test chart didn't provide better real world fine detail examples. I like to look at hair for this type of test and apparently that sample photo of the girls isn't helpful since the DSLR cameras didn't show good detail in that area.
However, it does give a feel for just how good of a job the camera can do.
Mike
panamamike said:
Nice find! Looks like there are 2 main issues that make me unhappy with the PQ.
1: Is the noise reduction pattern, it looks to have a blotch pattern to me. It's not a pleasant constant grain like the iPhone 4.
2: Dynamic range looks pretty poor.
I think both of these could be due to the NR and compression algo. It would be nice if Sony would provide something better, or if it could be fixed via software.
It's a shame the test chart didn't provide better real world fine detail examples. I like to look at hair for this type of test and apparently that sample photo of the girls isn't helpful since the DSLR cameras didn't show good detail in that area.
However, it does give a feel for just how good of a job the camera can do.
Mike
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Its a midrange/entry level phone ffs. Dont compare it with iphone4.
Its not on the same planet.
And a compression algo is indeed controlled via software. Same with nr. Stuff that SE finetunes with firmware updates.
Now, enjoy what you get for the money or buy the Arc S.
r33p said:
Its a midrange/entry level phone ffs. Dont compare it with iphone4.
Its not on the same planet.
And a compression algo is indeed controlled via software. Same with nr. Stuff that SE finetunes with firmware updates.
Now, enjoy what you get for the money or buy the Arc S.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, the iphone4 comparison isn't appropriate, but I started the thread because I was surprise that my old SE W580i produced better photos, take resolution into account. It also has a setting for normal vs. fine level detail, I was surprised to find the Mini Pro doesn't have that option.
I think the mini pro has room for improvement...
Mike
Well i had a couple of androids. Non wich where perfect.
r33p said:
Well i had a couple of androids. Non wich where perfect.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree, all phones have their short comings, I just don't like it when a phone is gimped, meaning the hardware is able, but the software lack of features or bugs get in the way...
Mike
sulkie said:
Yeah, not the best camera for non-bright conditions.
I installed an original gingerbread camera for some other Xperia device with the same sensor but modded to work for Mini Pro. And took some shots for comparison with the highest quality settings (Super Fine) on the original one. File sizes were about 30% larger but with no very little to no differences so i stuck with the Sony's one.
They're coming up with some camera tweaks for new update so maybe they'll manage to improve this aspect although i doubt it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I tried some of the 3rd party cameras, 360 camera and lgcamera. Similar results, not noticeable PQ improvement and much larger files 3x in some cases.
Yet I'm not convinced these programs have full control of the camera. Wondering how the sensor RAW image is processed by the camera to produce a jpeg ect...
BTW, how did you determine which sensor is in the camera?
Mike
I find the quality to be very good. It's a digital camera afterall, dont expect magic on a 200€ device.
If u guys take still pic's in daylight , then HDR cam+ takes some awesome shots
here's a sample u can judge.
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/818/20111014131928.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/3/20111014125355.jpg/
when i takce a picture with my camera on xperia mini pro, as a result the photos are really small when i see them on my pc, how can I change the size of the picture??
Try to use lgcamera...more options, you´ll find it in the market
To be honest i have a pretty good experience with my Active's camera. I had it mounted on my ski boot, and inside the strap (which adds another layer of plastic, making it a bit more blurry). I must say i was impressed.
Hey guys I was testing our 1080 p and noticed that our camera was horrible when looking at things with lights like a TV screen or something you really couldn't see anything on there it just looked very bright. It happens when your filming people and there's a light in the background also it just shows up as a huge glare and its horrible. It's on all roms and I think its just the camera in general. My friend also has this phone and I tested it and it resulted in the same thing. Light sources are being shown to much I guess and trust me it's horrible to try and show off your phone and claiming to have one of the best phones in the world and your camera 1080p is filming horribly. It's retarded as hell and up until this discovery I've had no complaints about this phone. So my question is what can we do to fix this. I've tried lowering the EV Control to negative 2 and it still gave the glare. Do we have to wait for an update to fix this problem or what.
Sent from my SGH-I777 using Tapatalk
are you on stock or custom rom? i am on unnamed v2.2.1 and having 'continous autofocus' issue during 1080p shooting that makes the video blurry and sticky.i have posted this in unnamed dev forum.
meanwhile, as a workaround i use 720p mode that somehow makes video kinda okay.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using XDA App
rav4kar said:
are you on stock or custom rom? i am on unnamed v2.2.1 and having 'continous autofocus' issue during 1080p shooting that makes the video blurry and sticky.i have posted this in unnamed dev forum.
meanwhile, as a workaround i use 720p mode that somehow makes video kinda okay.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It happens on both and its horrible. I should be able to use the features I was promised without trouble
Sent from my SGH-I777 using Tapatalk
Anybody
Sent from my SGH-I777 using Tapatalk
This problem can not be fixed.
The detector has a limited dynamic range- smaller pixels have lower dynamic range. The lens needs to be small, otherwise the device isn't pocket friendly. Lens size must be matched to pixel size, so even if a manufacturer wanted to include a high dynamic range imager in a cellphone, size-constraints make it unlikely.
It isn't realistic to expect a phone camera to compare in quality to a dedicated (and larger device) camera.
AoN
anneoneamouse said:
This problem can not be fixed.
The detector has a limited dynamic range- smaller pixels have lower dynamic range. The lens needs to be small, otherwise the device isn't pocket friendly. Lens size must be matched to pixel size, so even if a manufacturer wanted to include a high dynamic range imager in a cellphone, size-constraints make it unlikely.
It isn't realistic to expect a phone camera to compare in quality to a dedicated (and larger device) camera.
AoN
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's not relevant at all. There are multiple phones that have great cameras such as the Xperia arc. And I expect a device that outperforms others. That's why I bought this phone. And even my old Xperia x10 camera was able to cover white balance a lot better in certain areas. Our camera should be better. It takes great still shots but horrible video in lighted areas I guess. It doesn't make sense.
Sent from my SGH-I777 using Tapatalk
If someone could modify the Camera to accept tap to focus and exposure in video mode it would be perfect. That's what the issue is. However, I notice that during recording it is a LOT better than what it is when you just set video mode and look at it.
k1ska said:
If someone could modify the Camera to accept tap to focus and exposure in video mode it would be perfect. That's what the issue is. However, I notice that during recording it is a LOT better than what it is when you just set video mode and look at it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I just don't get how we have one of the greatest cameras and it does this bad with white balance. And yes I noticed the recording thing too
Sent from my SGH-I777 using Tapatalk
Ok, it seems like every picture taken under the conditions mentioned above(sorry forgot to write them: natural light, inside my room, pretty much a well lit room, besides the fact i didn't turn on the lights) and everything else set on auto, have the same result. I get either a blurry shot, without the antishake option and a noisy one, when having antishake on.
Also i would like to mention, that this particular behaviour happens in a rather well lit environment. The only time i get acceptable results is when i go out and shoot in the natural sunlight.
Is this normal?
You didn't list any conditions above.
Let me just add some examples, maybe you will understand what i'm talking about a little bit better
1. camera ics+
2. camera zoom fx
3. stock samsung camera
4. lg camera pro
Your iso settings are wrong. Change it to auto.
Sent from my LG-P920 using xda premium
As i already mentioned, my iso settings are set to auto. Any ideas?
i m having same issues, suddenly, the in door shots are coming with horrible noise
Sent from my GT-I9300 using xda premium
it's normal for a cell phone camera - or any type of small sensor camera, actually
Well then, why other camera apps shoot a little bit better? My old Samsung Omnia was a better shooter in this regard. Also, could you provide some photos too?
Scratch.
You edited your post.
Sent from my LG-P920 using xda premium
I did, but my iso is always on auto nevertheless
I would try three things:
- Set ISO manually. I don't have an S3, but with my S2 I get the best results by setting ISO manually.
- Turn antishake off. In general, electronic stabilization adds noise (unlike mechanical/optical stabilization which does not add noise).
- Try to hold the phone a still as possible while taking the picture.
That said, keep in mind that any small sensor camera like what you have in any phone is not going to perform well without good lighting. However the S3 should be one of the best of the phone cameras.
yes u r right that while using antishake option it produces noise thats y its off by default!! and u r wrong that it is blurry bcoz if antishake is off my gs3 takes noise free perfect pictures its has a gud BSI sensor (Cmos) try not to shake ur hands while taking pic.!
contrast is not automatic...
Sent from my GT-I9300 using XDA
automatic contrast does lead to more noise on mine (judging from the preview window)
v1rtu4l said:
automatic contrast does lead to more noise on mine (judging from the preview window)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, In the dark the noise Is more high with automatic contrast...
Sent from my GT-I9300 using XDA
my first gs3 phone's pictures were immaculate in doors and out, but i had overheating issues so i got a replacement...this new phones camera does this...too much noise, didn't have that with the first phone the replacement phones case came damaged so i'm hoping to exchange it once more...hopefully the next phone won't have this camera problem....
I have the same issue, I've been comparing the pics with my S2 and results are really bad indoor, except with flash. much better than S2 with flash! im really puzzled
I had posted here my cam firmware version, I'm wondering if it's the camera app or else
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=27553609&postcount=274
okay....i am not sure whether you guys have knowledge about photography
exposure is measured by 3 component
ISO, shutter speed, and aperture
as long you have sufficient light (outdoor during daylight), lowest ISO will be used by the camera and it results no noise
ISO --- sensitivity to light
you will have noise or sometimes blur in door or low light situation...
that is because aperture of camera has opened wide then it results other two components compensate to maintain proper exposure
that will increase higher ISO (more noise) and shutter speed is slower to get more light ...
hope this explains why
androb0t said:
okay....i am not sure whether you guys have knowledge about photography
exposure is measured by 3 component
ISO, shutter speed, and aperture
as long you have sufficient light (outdoor during daylight), lowest ISO will be used by the camera and it results no noise
ISO --- sensitivity to light
you will have noise or sometimes blur in door or low light situation...
that is because aperture of camera has opened wide then it results other two components compensate to maintain proper exposure
that will increase higher ISO (more noise) and shutter speed is slower to get more light ...
hope this explains why
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I dont think you understand that I have S3 and S2 with me and test them under the exactly same conditions and results are very different from all the tests of S3 on the web which clearly show that S3 takes better pics.
hm....it's hard to explain...unless you have DSLR and know how to do manual setting...
besides i am referring this to OP thread,NoOneCanHelpMe why there is camera blur and noise
Thanks HTC for bring a bigger mp camera to a phone that's suppose to be the little brother of the m8.........
http://mobile.theverge.com/2014/5/...tes-the-companys-flagship-phone-in-a-trimmed
...because we're ALWAYS complaining about the MP on our camera when we just upload the photos to instagram and fb..
You can't say that for ALL users. A lot of people don't need a expensive camera to take pics. Especially if you want to use that pic past Facebook etc. All I'm saying is instead of adding a second camera. HTC could have added more to the m8 to help keep it from being the same camera with a second camera. End of the day 4mp camera is a 4mp camera
When I want to use my pics past loading onto social apps. I use my note 3. But if I want to use this pic to upload then yes either my m8 or note 3 will do the job just fine
Sent from my SM-N900A using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
I'll agree that what smartphone camera is "better" depends on how you in particular use the camera. But just because a camera has more MP, does not make it "better" either. We'll have to wait and see if the camera on the One Mini 2 actually yields better quality images than the M8.
Unless you are blowing up or cropping photos a lot, 13 MP is too much and a joke for a camera phone. High MP smartphone cameras really struggle in low light. And unless you are taking pictures outdoors in broad daylight, its often low light.
I'll agree that HTC probably should not have opted for the dual camera on the M8. Kinda cool at times, but also pretty gimmicky. The money probably would have been better spent improving image quality on the single rear camera (even if not to increase the MP).
It's kinda a slap in the face to a certain degree. Here is the new m8 with the same camera with a secondary camera which is mostly gimmicky while nice at the same time. Then they decide to make the new HTC one mini from a 5 mp camera to a 13MP camera...........
Now will it have better pics? Probably not or probably so. For most people it don't matter, but after being in retail when trying to sell a customer the one the camera is its downside cause on PAPER the 4mp camera doesn't sound good at all compared to the other smartphones out in the market. People will buy the mini 2 because of it has higher mp count than the m8. While the m8 blows the mini in other specs that 13MP camera looks a lot better to somebody who doesn't care to have the latest and greatest specs.
While a higher mp count doesn't make a camera phone any better yes, but why bring the same thing to the table for your flagship but have a mid range phone with a better spec camera on paper WHEN it comes to mp count. .
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903tex said:
but after being in retail when trying to sell a customer the one the camera is its downside cause on PAPER the 4mp camera doesn't sound good at all compared to the other smartphones out in the market. People will buy the mini 2 because of it has higher mp count than the m8.
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Unfortunately, Average Joe is always going to fall for that marketing gimmick of chasing big numbers, without having any real understanding of what they mean. How many times have you seen someone with a fancy, big screen 1080p TV; and the owner just has a standard definition program on it; and not even in the right aspect ratio (so the picture is all stretched out to fill the screen). That kinda crap drives me crazy!
I for one applaud HTC for turning their nose up at the megapixel arms race. Its gotten absurd. I mean seriously, do we really need a smartphone with a 41 MP camera? Of course not (I understand its actually a really good camera, but not because its 41 MP).
903tex said:
While a higher mp count doesn't make a camera phone any better yes, but why bring the same thing to the table for your flagship but have a mid range phone with a better spec camera on paper WHEN it comes to mp count. .
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That is a really good point. Why push a certain marketing strategy (and one that particularly bucks the trend) for one device, then do nearly the exact opposite for another device.
In any case, I don't think that the Mini 2 will really compete directly with the M8. Price point alone, even the Average Joe Blow is going to know its a flagship versus a "budget" phone. Don't know about the One Mini in particular, but for the most part, any HTC phone aside from the "flagship" tends to sell in extremely low numbers. At least here in the US (don't know about other regions).
redpoint73 said:
Unfortunately, Average Joe is always going to fall for that marketing gimmick of chasing big numbers, without having any real understanding of what they mean. How many times have you seen someone with a fancy, big screen 1080p TV; and the owner just has a standard definition program on it; and not even in the right aspect ratio (so the picture is all stretched out to fill the screen). That kinda crap drives me crazy!
I for one applaud HTC for turning their nose up at the megapixel arms race. Its gotten absurd. I mean seriously, do we really need a smartphone with a 41 MP camera? Of course not (I understand its actually a really good camera, but not because its 41 MP).
That is a really good point. Why push a certain marketing strategy (and one that particularly bucks the trend) for one device, then do nearly the exact opposite for another device.
In any case, I don't think that the Mini 2 will really compete directly with the M8. Price point alone, even the Average Joe Blow is going to know its a flagship versus a "budget" phone. Don't know about the One Mini in particular, but for the most part, any HTC phone aside from the "flagship" tends to sell in extremely low numbers. At least here in the US (don't know about other regions).
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The same reason we need 4k Tv's and 2k screen on smartphones. To keep making them money lol! Exactly why say your not going to follow the trend but all your other phones are right in the trend? Lol but HTC could have tried a little harder for the m8 speaking of the camera of course. The phone is rock solid but don't have these commercials making fun of these mp trends and being different when your other devices join right in with today's trends.
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Some of my favorite shots have come from the camera on my M8. In terms of higher quality, I'm actually looking at the Sony G Lens, since it is supposed to take really nice shots, and is $200 at my local best buy.
Some people such as my self want a phone with camera and some prefer cameras that can be used as a phone.
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903tex said:
You can't say that for ALL users. A lot of people don't need a expensive camera to take pics. Especially if you want to use that pic past Facebook etc. All I'm saying is instead of adding a second camera. HTC could have added more to the m8 to help keep it from being the same camera with a second camera. End of the day 4mp camera is a 4mp camera
When I want to use my pics past loading onto social apps. I use my note 3. But if I want to use this pic to upload then yes either my m8 or note 3 will do the job just fine
Sent from my SM-N900A using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
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If I want to use my pics for something worthwhile, I use my Canon EOS.. otherwise I use a crappy phone camera.
lets all cut the crap. the camera is nice on the M8 and i do agree. to a certain degree. mega pixels don't make the camera. but it sucks for details when blowing up pictures or zooming we dont need 20 mp. but i think we should have something alittle higher
daddioj said:
lets all cut the crap. the camera is nice on the M8 and i do agree. to a certain degree. mega pixels don't make the camera. but it sucks for details when blowing up pictures or zooming we dont need 20 mp. but i think we should have something alittle higher
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reviews for the one mini 2 have started surfacing. in ideal conditions it is resolving a lot more detail, by a huge margin. but anything other than ideal and the m8 takes it.
i think the 2.0 pixel size is great and all, but i think we couldve benefited a lot for 1.8 sized pixels and an extra megapixel. that configuration shouldn't lead to a large camera hump.
i'm happy with what i got either way, i do miss the old OIS from my old m7. but whatever, the m8 has proven to be a capable shooter. and my nx300 is always on stand by in case i need a real camera
Any advice on rooting the Mini 2. I receive it tomorrow from carphone warehouse (379sterling.) Has the original Mini gained from official CM11 support thus far?
Any insight on how to root my forthcoming mini 2 and gaining cwm and porting roms would be greatly appreciated.
Does anyone know what phone o could potentially port from for the Mini 2.
How difficult to root and install a custom cwm recovery?
Hello community!
I have just bought the new HTC One Mini 2, it is locked with EE network. It looks like I am unable to get the unlock code anywhere. Do you have any suggestion or advice?
Wrong board
what sucks is having a super light sensitive camera.. while living in Florida. It's always bright unless you paint your windows black.
So what if it has a camera with higher MPs. That doesn't make it a better phone than m8. Unless HTC comes up with a device having the same internals as the m8 but a better camera resolution, I don't see what is there to fuss about.
mindmajick said:
what sucks is having a super light sensitive camera.. while living in Florida. It's always bright unless you paint your windows black.
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I'm not so sure that having a more sensitive sensor (while better for low light situations) necessarily means that there will be too much light in bright situations. The camera controls the sensitivity (ISO based on the old "film speed" terminology) as well as the aperture (f-stop). It might be that the automatic exposure that the camera is trying to achieve (balance between ISO, aperture and shutter time) is too bright for your local conditions. In which case, you can manually lower the exposure by tapping the 3-top menu button in the camera app, tap EV and lower the exposure value.
redpoint73 said:
I'm not so sure that having a more sensitive sensor (while better for low light situations) necessarily means that there will be too much light in bright situations. The camera controls the sensitivity (ISO based on the old "film speed" terminology) as well as the aperture (f-stop). It might be that the automatic exposure that the camera is trying to achieve (balance between ISO, aperture and shutter time) is too bright for your local conditions. In which case, you can manually lower the exposure by tapping the 3-top menu button in the camera app, tap EV and lower the exposure value.
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I've messed with all the settings. I appreciate the feedback though...
Unfortunately, if i have any picture with a bright spot from the sun the whole picture gets washed out. Full indoor is fine and full outdoor is fine. But daytime pictures indoors with sun coming in the window- washed out. Granted- if i still lived in Philly (or most parts of the country) i doubt it would be an issue.
mindmajick said:
I've messed with all the settings. I appreciate the feedback though...
Unfortunately, if i have any picture with a bright spot from the sun the whole picture gets washed out. Full indoor is fine and full outdoor is fine. But daytime pictures indoors with sun coming in the window- washed out. Granted- if i still lived in Philly (or most parts of the country) i doubt it would be an issue.
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Any camera will have issues if there are areas in the frame which are very bright, or spotty lighting (mix of bright and darker spots). Or does it seem worse with the phone? Often forcing the focus to a different spot by tapping the screen helps a lot.
Not sure if something like this has already been posted:
A post on the android subreddit describes improvements to the camera API with specific mention of Sony devices:
Sony
Sony post processing isn't as good as it could be, look at this Xperia Z sample.
If you have a high end Sony phone from the last two years I wouldn't hesitate to say that your photos and video will drastically improve with this new API if implemented well in a good app.
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The full post is worth a read. There may be hope for the ZU camera after all.
http://www.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/2lr0d2/an_indepth_analysis_of_the_new_android_50_camera/
unidentifier said:
Not sure if something like this has already been posted:
A post on the android subreddit describes improvements to the camera API with specific mention of Sony devices:
The full post is worth a read. There may be hope for the ZU camera after all.
http://www.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/2lr0d2/an_indepth_analysis_of_the_new_android_50_camera/
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We were hoping that the API and RAW format was going to arrive in KK as it was rumoured back then. Having access to the RAW data will help, but a noisy sensor is a noisy sensor.
There are some photo comparisons out there of the Nexus 5 running both Kitkat and Lollipop. The improvement in quality is very very noticeable, and I will eat a hat if we don't see some improvement on the Z Ultra too.
I believe it was Forbes that tested the Nexus 5 camera.
i hope this new camera API gets unmolested RAW data from the sensor
the JPGs this thing spits out currently is horrible
Software doesn't make miracles when hardware is at fault, just think that ZU Camera is a tablet Camera and get over it
Sm0L said:
Software doesn't make miracles when hardware is at fault, just think that ZU Camera is a tablet Camera and get over it
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It's not software, but APIs, which grants direct access to the camera hardware. This is a first time on Android. What this means is that regular devs will have access to the camera hardware, and new camera apps can actually claim to take better or different photos. Want to shoot RAW? Sure. No problem. Want to dump Sony's post-processing algorythm? Not an issue.
There's probably not any issues with the sensor and module. Sony makes incredible camera modules, and even the cameras in the iPhones are from Sony. But the iPhone camera is much better than the average flagship Android, isn't it? Yes, and that boils down to the camera software. Not the hardware. So Lollipop will probably, and hopefully make a huge difference on the Ultra's camera. Low-light will still suck though.
---------- Post added at 03:53 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:51 PM ----------
ShadowVlican said:
i hope this new camera API gets unmolested RAW data from the sensor
the JPGs this thing spits out currently is horrible
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There's already a third party camera app for Lollipop that does this. It shoots RAW. The app itself is crappy (according to most users), but it's more of a proof of concept at this point.
H. E. Pennypacker said:
It's not software, but APIs, which grants direct access to the camera hardware. This is a first time on Android. What this means is that regular devs will have access to the camera hardware, and new camera apps can actually claim to take better or different photos. Want to shoot RAW? Sure. No problem. Want to dump Sony's post-processing algorythm? Not an issue.
There's probably not any issues with the sensor and module. Sony makes incredible camera modules, and even the cameras in the iPhones are from Sony. But the iPhone camera is much better than the average flagship Android, isn't it? Yes, and that boils down to the camera software. Not the hardware. So Lollipop will probably, and hopefully make a huge difference on the Ultra's camera. Low-light will still suck though.
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I don't think you are right, imho the sensor and module of the ZU is a bit of a crap and can't get better with new APIs, but i hope your are right.
Sm0L said:
I don't think you are right, imho the sensor and module of the ZU is a bit of a crap and can't get better with new APIs, but i hope your are right.
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But it might get faster. I think sonys post processing is already pretty good, when you consider the sensor being crap. Especially the video stabilization is impressive, it's doing a better job than some phones with OIS. But we will see when the GPE port arrives.
madphone said:
But it might get faster. I think sonys post processing is already pretty good, when you consider the sensor being crap. Especially the video stabilization is impressive, it's doing a better job than some phones with OIS. But we will see when the GPE port arrives.
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Sony's post-processing is the worst.
Certainly the write-up I posted suggested it's Sony's post-processing. Sony's sensor's are supposed to be best and is what's in most top phones.
Does anyone have any evidence (aside from self-referencing the XZU and Sony phones) that the 8 MP Exnor RS Sensor itself is flawed? Any other products using this sensor that also produce poor photos? Otherwise it's just a matter of opinion (without evidence) that it's sensor vs. the api.
The only other way to know for sure is to wait and see.
unidentifier said:
Certainly the write-up I posted suggested it's Sony's post-processing. Sony's sensor's are supposed to be best and is what's in most top phones.
Does anyone have any evidence (aside from self-referencing the XZU and Sony phones) that the 8 MP Exnor R Sensor itself is flawed? Any other products using this sensor that also produce poor photos? Otherwise it's just a matter of opinion (without evidence) that it's sensor vs. the api.
The only other way to know for sure is to wait and see.
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Yeah, we'll just have to wait i guess No reason to fight over something that doesn't have a right or wrong answer yet.
unidentifier said:
Certainly the write-up I posted suggested it's Sony's post-processing. Sony's sensor's are supposed to be best and is what's in most top phones.
Does anyone have any evidence (aside from self-referencing the XZU and Sony phones) that the 8 MP Exnor RS Sensor itself is flawed? Any other products using this sensor that also produce poor photos? Otherwise it's just a matter of opinion (without evidence) that it's sensor vs. the api.
The only other way to know for sure is to wait and see.
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Wikipedia list the Z Ultra's camera module as the IMX134 and is shared with the Xperia L and the Huawei Ascend G6, I don't know if that's correct or not but it's listed as 1/4in sensor which I can believe as that would account for poor image quality. Comparatively the Z1 and successors use 1/2.3in sensors which are much bigger although in general for cameras, that's still on the small side.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exmor
I don't believe there is any way we're going to see drastic improvements from Android 5.0, I do think Sony's image processing is an issue because they're trying to push a poor sensor too much resulting in noise reduction and sharpening which is far too aggressive. Dealing with noise is difficult, it's unsightly but the more aggressive the noise reduction is the more you lose detail but companies generally favour reducing noise at all cost on small, noisy sensors. Dialling back some of that aggressive processing will probably help the image quality a bit but ultimately it's still a small, noisy sensor and there's not much you can do with that.
John
Interestingly, this review of the Xperia L touts its "fantastic camera", concluding that "we feel that the camera is really something special. For those that want a decent camera phone, but don't want to pay loads, you might want to look at the Xperia L."
Expert Reviews say they "were impressed by the performance of its backside-illuminated camera sensor" and that it "takes some of the best low-light photos we've seen, with far more detail and less than noise than the Samsung Galaxy S4's shots. Daylight photos were acceptable if not spectacular. Contrast was impressive, with no sign of overexposure in lighter areas even on a sunlit day, but details became muddy when we zoomed in, showing the limits of the Xperia L's eight megapixels." Is the Ultra's sensor not backside-illuminated, maybe? The L also has a flash.
On the other hand, CNET is disappointed in its low-light performance. Trusted Reviews agrees, saying "Indoors, the Sony Xperia L camera is affected by yet more issues. While the camera takes balanced, good-looking photos in bright, natural light, in dim indoor lighting the white balance is off, resulting in ugly yellow tinged photos. The inbuilt flash does little to help, either." They say it does have "many positives, including a pleasing colour balance, sharp focus in shots".
PC World is generally happy with the Ascend G6's camera, saying "photo performance is generally strong — especially when you keep the Huawei’s price in mind — but we did encounter signs of flaring and feathering during testing. Image noise is present, but its at a low level, while the on-board HDR mode does a decent job at capturing detail that is otherwise lost."
These do take into consideration the price of the phones, however - they're both much cheaper than the Ultra was at launch.
Edit: All that to say, maybe there is hope in the software department.
Johnmcl7 said:
Wikipedia list the Z Ultra's camera module as the IMX134 and is shared with the Xperia L and the Huawei Ascend G6, I don't know if that's correct or not but it's listed as 1/4in sensor which I can believe as that would account for poor image quality. Comparatively the Z1 and successors use 1/2.3in sensors which are much bigger although in general for cameras, that's still on the small side.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exmor
I don't believe there is any way we're going to see drastic improvements from Android 5.0, I do think Sony's image processing is an issue because they're trying to push a poor sensor too much resulting in noise reduction and sharpening which is far too aggressive. Dealing with noise is difficult, it's unsightly but the more aggressive the noise reduction is the more you lose detail but companies generally favour reducing noise at all cost on small, noisy sensors. Dialling back some of that aggressive processing will probably help the image quality a bit but ultimately it's still a small, noisy sensor and there's not much you can do with that.
John
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Triflot said:
Interestingly, this review of the Xperia L touts its "fantastic camera", concluding that "we feel that the camera is really something special. For those that want a decent camera phone, but don't want to pay loads, you might want to look at the Xperia L."
Expert Reviews say they "were impressed by the performance of its backside-illuminated camera sensor" and that it "takes some of the best low-light photos we've seen, with far more detail and less than noise than the Samsung Galaxy S4's shots. Daylight photos were acceptable if not spectacular. Contrast was impressive, with no sign of overexposure in lighter areas even on a sunlit day, but details became muddy when we zoomed in, showing the limits of the Xperia L's eight megapixels." Is the Ultra's sensor not backside-illuminated, maybe? The L also has a flash.
On the other hand, CNET is disappointed in its low-light performance. Trusted Reviews agrees, saying "Indoors, the Sony Xperia L camera is affected by yet more issues. While the camera takes balanced, good-looking photos in bright, natural light, in dim indoor lighting the white balance is off, resulting in ugly yellow tinged photos. The inbuilt flash does little to help, either." They say it does have "many positives, including a pleasing colour balance, sharp focus in shots".
PC World is generally happy with the Ascend G6's camera, saying "photo performance is generally strong — especially when you keep the Huawei’s price in mind — but we did encounter signs of flaring and feathering during testing. Image noise is present, but its at a low level, while the on-board HDR mode does a decent job at capturing detail that is otherwise lost."
These do take into consideration the price of the phones, however - they're both much cheaper than the Ultra was at launch.
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Solid research John and Triflot. Thank you.
Personally, I will be happy if the camera works at all with unlocked bl.
You want me to put the hammer down?
Deleted
leonbarroso said:
Do as I did - buy a semipro camera on blackfriday
Serious photography with smartphone is bull****
And I am a former Lumia 1020 owner
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Why does it have to be 'serious' photography? I have many dedicated cameras from 1in sensor size up to professional full frame setups but none of those cameras are small enough to keep in my trouser pockets all the time, I tried recently going for one of the smallest dedicated cameras I could find but even that was irritating to carry in my trouser pockets alongside the phone. My phone on the other hand is always in my pocket and always to hand so it's ready to go any time when I want to take a photo unexpectedly plus its online connection means the photo is immediately ready to upload the photo if I want to as well. Some of my dedicated cameras have wifi for transferring photos but it's still a fiddle in comparison.
I don't need an amazing camera but I'm just disappointed how poor the Z ultra camera is, I find I use it like an older camera phone where it was only really handy for capturing serial numbers or information I need to quickly jot down whereas I used the Galaxy Note as a camera a fair bit and while the quality can't match the dedicated cameras it could produce reasonable pictures. I'm seriously considering going for a Note 4 and taking the hit on the screen size to get the better camera, it will be a few months before prices are reasonable so that's time to see if Sony announce anything (which I seriously doubt) or anyone else offers anything interesting with a larger screen.
With regards to the Z Ultra sensor, I'm surprised it is BSI as I thought I'd read initially when considering the phone that Sony had taken an older sensor and rebadged it as Exmor RS which made sense. There's not many sources for the camera module but the few I can find agree with Wikipedia as do sources for the Huawei and the Xperia L, is there any way to verify this in software on a Z Ultra? With regards to photo quality on the Xperia L and the Huawei G6, I am surprised by the positive comments even allowing for them being budget phones and the G6 having a faster lens (F2 rather than F2.4 on the Sony's). Then again some of the reviews of the Z Ultra aren't that hard on the camera either so it's difficult to tell objectively, DXOmark haven't tested it (admittedly I'm not convinced by their testing anyway) nor have I seen any particularly objective testing.
John