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I have been a member of XDA some time now. In the time that I have been a member I have used various forums from the Wizard thru the Raphael. I am seeing a transformation in the forum that I think we need to correct. When I first joined, the board was very different from the way it is today. The posts were more technical in nature, with people offering suggestions and posting not only the bugs they found with the ROM’s, but sometimes the fix as well. I feel that the Raphael forum has strayed far from that, to the point where people are just posting and waiting for the chefs to fix everything. I am not saying everyone does that, but it is the majority. There are two things I am concerned about. One, chefs are leaving from being burned out or simply not having the time to keep up with all the requests, Second, the quality of the ROMs. See, if we help the chefs by either resolving our own issues or helping them with bug resolution they will have more time for improvements and refinement. This will lead to the fastest most stable ROMs possible. I think the community needs to go back to the times when people were a little hesitant to just post anything, and actually do research and troubleshooting before bugging the chefs. Any and all comments would be appreciated, either agreeing or disagreeing with me.
-McMex
Amen to that! could not agree with you more....
the problem is that flashing ROMs are too easy now, the tools are too useful, and these VERY powerful tools are now in the hands of kids too immature to research for themselves
I agree with you McMexican. Just had an issue in the Blackstone forum over this exact issue you mention here.
P1Tater said:
Here's the issue with XDA lately and it's not just this thread that it's happening. The problem is that everyone reports a bug but noone tries to assist in fixing it. Everyone expects the cook to be all-knowing and be able to fix himself. However, these people have lives as well. They have families and jobs and don't have 24 hours in a day to just sit here on the thread and wait for people to report bugs so they have something to do. So, everyone complains, cries and whines about their issues and never once says what apps they have installed, uninstalled, what regs they have changed or files they have added or deleted and then wonder why the chef doesn't have the issue and why he can't fix it. Then when the chef gets upset. Then, when they do get upset then the "Thank You's" come. Did it ever occur to anyone to thank the chef when the rom worked? No, when it works you don't post and when it doesn't work you post complaints. I wonder why the chef's get upset . Just think about it.
What should happen is if it works, thank the chef or contribute. Damn, even a Thank You goes a long way. If you are having issues, maybe just maybe, report the issue, what you have tried, whatt apps you have installed and what you have uninstalled. Ususally when a chef cooks a rom, they don't install apps to the rom because everything they use is cooked in. Believe it or not, some apps will absolutely kill a rom.
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This is what I posted in that thread but it seems as though it is worth mentioning here as this discusses the exact same issue we seem to be having all over XDA lately.
Agree
I agree with this partly although I'm not sure this is the right place to post it.
Its a free forum and in its nature you will nearly always get this type of thing.
Yes it does burn out alot of the chef's but they also have lives that take on different directions as time moves on and so they come and go.
The bug reporting with no solution must be really pissing our chefs off and it is not just for roms.. I'm seeing it with software enhancements too.
At its core this is still by far the best forum for our devices. I believe XDA has always developed the best ROMS & enhancements for our devices and often take them to places the original manufacturers would never have dreamed of.
I just don't know how something like this can be policed. Nearly all the guys post in their first post something about not asking dumb questions but yet they still get them.
The ones that really piss me off are something like "Just flashed and now blah won't work" with absolutely no details at all.
What I do is leave the 'dumb questions' to the other users of my ROM to answer.. I find the userbase to be generally savvy enough to answer its own questions
The ones that I feel the userbase will not be able to answer easily or in a timely fashion, I post an answer for
It's not that I wouldn't like to have the time to sit there and answer all the 'dumb questions', but my time is better spent doing other things.. and the users don't seem to mind helping each other generally, when it's within their knowledge..
Then again my ROM is a little more hands-on than others, so i've already eliminated a good amount of the 'newbies' by it not being quite so easy to flash
mcmexican said:
I have been a member of XDA some time now. In the time that I have been a member I have used various forums from the Wizard thru the Raphael. I am seeing a transformation in the forum that I think we need to correct. When I first joined, the board was very different from the way it is today. The posts were more technical in nature, with people offering suggestions and posting not only the bugs they found with the ROM’s, but sometimes the fix as well. I feel that the Raphael forum has strayed far from that, to the point where people are just posting and waiting for the chefs to fix everything. I am not saying everyone does that, but it is the majority. There are two things I am concerned about. One, chefs are leaving from being burned out or simply not having the time to keep up with all the requests, Second, the quality of the ROMs. See, if we help the chefs by either resolving our own issues or helping them with bug resolution they will have more time for improvements and refinement. This will lead to the fastest most stable ROMs possible. I think the community needs to go back to the times when people were a little hesitant to just post anything, and actually do research and troubleshooting before bugging the chefs. Any and all comments would be appreciated, either agreeing or disagreeing with me.
-McMex
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P1Tater said:
I agree with you McMexican. Just had an issue in the Blackstone forum over this exact issue you mention here.
Originally Posted by P1Tater
Here's the issue with XDA lately and it's not just this thread that it's happening. The problem is that everyone reports a bug but noone tries to assist in fixing it. Everyone expects the cook to be all-knowing and be able to fix himself. However, these people have lives as well. They have families and jobs and don't have 24 hours in a day to just sit here on the thread and wait for people to report bugs so they have something to do. So, everyone complains, cries and whines about their issues and never once says what apps they have installed, uninstalled, what regs they have changed or files they have added or deleted and then wonder why the chef doesn't have the issue and why he can't fix it. Then when the chef gets upset. Then, when they do get upset then the "Thank You's" come. Did it ever occur to anyone to thank the chef when the rom worked? No, when it works you don't post and when it doesn't work you post complaints. I wonder why the chef's get upset . Just think about it.
What should happen is if it works, thank the chef or contribute. Damn, even a Thank You goes a long way. If you are having issues, maybe just maybe, report the issue, what you have tried, whatt apps you have installed and what you have uninstalled. Ususally when a chef cooks a rom, they don't install apps to the rom because everything they use is cooked in. Believe it or not, some apps will absolutely kill a rom.
This is what I posted in that thread but it seems as though it is worth mentioning here as this discusses the exact same issue we seem to be having all over XDA lately.
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I absolutely agree. Both of these posts describe the reality of the situation. Back in the wizard days for the most part only people pushing the edge of technology bought the windows mobile PDA phones. The same appled to the hermes for the most part. When I moved to the tilt the tides began to turn. Prices of this type of phone began to be more reasonable based upon the technology. More and more companies bagan pushing mail. The internet became more of a requirement than a novelty. Less and less tech savy users began to purchase. These buyers soon learned winmo had a ton of flaws and came to xda. Some spent the time to learn and have become valuable members of the forum. Many did not. They pop in and want us to be the fix all for thier issues. One prime example is GSleon3. How many tilts did he unbrick for people carelessly flashing tilts. When the Fuze arrived the problem only grew. Ive seen more new members in the last 3 months than my entire time on xda. A few of the new members have really taken the time to learn and contribute. MANY have not. I get at least 15 posts a day in my thread asking questions that are answered multiple times in the thread. I get at least 30 posts per day that could easily be answered in at least 1 thread on xda if not dozens.
Most of the chefs in this forum are pushing the limits with cutting edge builds. Da_G has more or less led the way. It amazes me how many users think everything should work perfectly. With all the easy kitchens and premade OEMs so many people think making a good stable rom is easy.
I commend Da_G on pushing the cooking aspect. Hopefully more will realize its not as easy as they think. Ive been at this for years and I learn something new every day.
Over the past month I have grown more and more discouraged. If rom users would spend that extra few minutes to find a fix I could do so much more.
I do however want to thank all of those that have searched, that have, helped,that have answered questions and have done so much to make mine and other chefs roms better
While I do agree with all of what has been stated, and myself to be considered a "NOOB", I really think it comes down to the individual user. I may have asked a question or two (or 30) that may have been answered already before, but I personally try to search and I do try to find the answers myself when I can. I do try and figure the answers myself, but I just don't have the expertise to do so quite often. But myself, I try to make up for my lack of capabilities by way of PayPal to our grear chefs. Others don't truly understand the amount of work that goes into the cooking of ROMS, I am BARELY tapping into that now. I have been visiting XDA for quite some time now and have seen it grow. Unfortunately the user base has grown very large, and it is hard to manage the forums. With there being so many places to find information in this website, it takes time just to locate the information you need. Sadly, I don't see much change unless you start locking down the members capabilities to post, which would defeat the whole purpose of a community forum. As far as it is for the ROM Chefs, a suggestion for you would to not publicly post your ROMs (except in the case of the kitchens, don't do that, I'm addicted!) right away. Maybe put a password on them upon download and have some filtering system or something and maybe only release the password selectively or something. And have a guideline for posters, like your post must contain this: and if the post doesn't have that, then don't even bother responding. Let's face it, we techies with out the tech knowledge are at the mercy of the chefs!
Site is free but maybe some type of short ban on posting for spammer and those who bug chef after three strikes or so by senior member. A chef doesnt cook for just one person he cooks to what you may like. If you dont like a chef rom try another or just go back to dead stock rom bug your carrier. But my idea might be to much work.
Idea
Radimus said:
and these VERY powerful tools are now in the hands of kids too immature to research for themselves
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Wow, really? Maybe you were a dumb kid, but I'd like to avoid this stereotype.
The users on threads need to stop asking dumb questions, though. I think a rating system should be implemented like on Engadget. That way every time someone makes a dumb post we can demote them and limit their post count per day
The reason why there is so many nOObs posting is that the Raphael has had such a tremendous success at the carrier level. Almost all of the US carriers have picked up the Touch Pro. So it is very reasonable to surmize that the majority of new users are new to windows mobile and completely blown away by the amazing amount of tweaks available for it.
Maybe the best idea is create special forums designed for Senior Members only to comment in. They would be locked to all others to comment on, but visible for all to see. Then create another set of forums for general discussion. I see absolutely no reason a development forum should be open to all anyway. I often think if I read one more "Downloading now!" post I will scream! So again, I would lock just the development and hacking forums to approved members, or at least make all posts be moderated first before they are posted. That will keep the development threads clean.
I would then load up the non development discussion forums and threads with adwords and advertising and give that money back to the real developers. LEt the nOObs pay for development indirectly through advertising.
sammypwns said:
Wow, really? Maybe you were a dumb kid, but I'd like to avoid this stereotype.
The users on threads need to stop asking dumb questions, though. I think a rating system should be implemented like on Engadget. That way every time someone makes a dumb post we can demote them and limit their post count per day
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Is this post really necessary?
Anyway,
I agree with McMex about the types of post but part of the problem is the organization of the information. Idea for you, Subdivide the forum so that the Cooked ROMs could have their own POST that was a sticky and only limited to the Chef for editing (containing information about updates and revisions etc,...). Then maybe create another post for ISSUES ONLY with the Cooked ROM. And then one more for the nonsense that burdens the Chef or other users like me who try and shift through the countless meaningless post by the "can you fix..." crew. This might help keep the organization of the VALUABLE information contained in this forum.
I use XDA to help me stay up on the latest stuff so I can impress the boss and his co-horts into believing that I am a technical wiz (ha!).
Anyway, this is a bit disorganized and polluted but if you take the time to search, read, search some more and read some more you can find a lot of great help here. But it does need some organizing. Maybe if some people would use discretion in posting it might help cut down on the smog, if you know what I mean.
DSmithZ28, I think that we are on the same idea.
Many people here started out as noobs, used what they read, and then became developers. I'm trying to do just that. It would not be helpful to limit what I can see as I would not be able to learn the development process as easily. This wave just has to be ridden out and the community will pick up some more help along the way.
Just thought of this from systematic approach and put it in numbers (guessed at the numbers):
Forum pre-influx:
60% Experienced Members
30% Moderate
9% Noobs
1% Don't know where they are
Forum post-influx
45% Experienced Members
24% Moderate
30% Noobs
1% Still celebrating Obama's election
-What this means is that there aren't enough mid level people ATM to handle all of the tedious questions that the developers shouldn't have to answer. As more noob's gain knowledge, there should be a shift in the paradigm, this will even itself out and lead to another great period for XDA!
One thought, what if there were some type of Pledge or Credo thread that would echo the sentiments of this thread. Make it so the new member cannot post until they've responded "Read and Understood" to that thread.
Whatever happens, I pledge to help people find their answers, as it helps me learn along the way.
I know this probably sounds retarded, but back in the Kasier days, there was a couple of users (Scotchua, McMexican, Mfrazzz, taiser999, crispyj, HDStreetglide, JimmyMcGee, Daveshaw, & rzanolgy just to name a few) who floated around all of the rom threads and answered questions along with giving links and subtle prodding of the search function. Maybe if there were more users who did this, things wouldn't be the way they are today. But it will take more than just a couple of users. It will take the work of everyone. Also, we need more users helping edit the wiki's. These are just a couple of suggestions.
Never a truer word spoken, guys
Definitely agree that the culture's changed around here over the past few years.
I dallied a little with cooking a year ago. I was lucky - I had several people helping me by providing solutions to the problems I had (I'm looking at you McMex there, among others!). Back on the Kaiser, every chef helped each other and there was a hardcore group of users who knew what they were talking about and offered solutions. On the Raphael, we've got an excellent group of chefs co-operating, and there are a few of the hardcore, helpful users but I think they're getting lost in the huge amount of other users who seem to think this is an HTC support forum - they've spent money on their phones and think we owe them!
Have the users changed here, or is it just we've got so many more (unconstructive) users in here that they're being too diluted to see?
My time in the kitchen taught me I was out of my depth, and eternal respect for those people who deserve to be in there!
Maybe a read/search count of couple hundred before you can post in the dev forum? Just a thought. Seems like an easiest solution to implement for now.
@ overjjrk
Lol at the 1% celebrating Obama's election
And back on topic, I vote for a Question and Answers section for every device!
Agreed "at least 100%" to post one.
I started - as everybody did - as a NOOB and somehow I learned fairly good (*cough cough*) how to deal with these devices. I do also try to pick up threads now and then surfing the forum and trying to help (enough praise) but it trips me off BIG TIME that it seems meanwhile that NOOB's barely use the search, have no idea how google is spelled and give up after the first try or EVEN WORSE bump their own threads if the don't receive a quick answer. Good that I can keep my temper but sometimes I'd really like to answer "@@#$%%^&"....
I do like what pages like "blownfuze" or "fuzemobilty" provide for NOOBs because with that information stickies would take at least the first three pages of a subject.
Not sure if it can/will work out but fine tuning the Wiki (without breaking it) may help a bit since we all live from the contributions of each other.
An approach could be a Readme 1st section where either only mods or users willing to take this task, can contribute (guess mods will be overwhelmed since they too have a daytime job) and no replies are allowed.
One of the biggest issues and posts I do see recently is "setup the device to a certain provider". I'm not a cab or software guy but could one of these great people here perhaps come up with an idea to have a CAB which will simply set up the connection setting the that particular provider? There aren't more than 2 dozen major ones world wide so that could bring freedom to the chefs to deal with provider specific settings and keep concentrated on fine tuning a ROM still being open for the whole world.... just one of the ideas.
Let's see how this thread evolves.
how about i just start banning people that don't live in new york?
i think this is a good way to go about things.
Sorry I missed the town hall meeting. I am a noob to Roms and phone moding, I did do a lot with the original xbox back when it was fun to mod. Ok a little off toppic.
One thing that noticed you never looked at is where are your noobs (me) comming in to your site? I have only been looking at roms for about a week. All of the searches that I did about roms and rooting my phone all led me to the "The Bible" and yes where is that located at. Most people will post there they find the information. You might look at moving that post to the general tab as this is going to be one of the first places that a person is going to look to first.
This will also be a place that a noob is going to post so dumb question for the 1,000,000th time. If you expect it, it will not be a bad thing.
And yes I did to a bad flash and spent about 5 hours looking for a way to fix what I did.
Thanks for your time and have a great day/night
Good point. I myself was thinking when I first started to look into flashing ROMs and such and found the bible in the Dev section. The Vibrant Bible has lots of information and should probably be in the General Section as it does draw people to the Dev section instead of General.
Maybe it should be in the Q&A forum as it has lots of both.
One of the biggest problems with this forum seems to be that for a development forum, there is very little actual development going on. Obviously only a select group of people have the knowledge and desire to truly develop custom ROMs, but there's a role others can take too.
I've been involved in other development communities, outside of Android, and I can't recall a community as poisonous as this one. The amount of high level technical discussion is nill. As inexperienced as I am with Android, I can't remember the last post that sent me running to google to read more about something. There seems to be little to no give-and-take between developers, which is typically the most fun of any development group I've been a part of. The goal of working towards any common framework seems non-existant.
The supporters of certain ROMs resemble cults more than critical, helpful users. I can't count the amount of replies I've seen to legitimate questions or criticisms saying nothing more than, "Developer X puts in all this time, so you should just be thankful", or some iteration of that. While possibly true, that's the type of worthless hero worship that provides nothing in a community like this.
Even the individual developer forums are worthless. They're 75% "you're awesome" posts, with the other 25% being bug reports.
Obviously the popularity of XDA has made it a destination for simple support posts in addition to development discussion. I guess that's frustrating, but can be handled through moderation. I know on other forums, if I had nothing to do, I'd sit in the help section and answer posts for a couple hours. I'm sure we've all posted on other forums and received helped we're thankful for. Certainly the level of douchebagery that half the users here show isn't needed.
I don't know. Maybe all Android communities are like this. The fragmentation of the development, even on one divice, definitely doesn't help. But it's not the most enjoyable place to read I've ever found.
This is all you need to know:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=9831517&postcount=3
The town hall closed too soon, closed 5pm eastern time. Sucks for us on the west coast. I was actually typing and clicked send when I noticed the forum already was closed.
scrizz said:
This is all you need to know:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=9831517&postcount=3
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I am sorry that is not all that I needed to know. This was a post for an idea that was not brough up in the town hall. yes I did read the full town hall and no it was never said in the full thread. So before you give a link please make sure of the Question.
That is another reason that you get people pissed off. You have people say "this is all that I need to know" but they did not even look at the full question. This was not a question of what happened in the town hall. It was more like please think of this.
The Bilble thread is a great place for people that are new to star reading about what to do and what not to do. but it really does not have a thing to do about develement.
Thanks for all the other posters I enjoyed the coments.
I'm writing here because I haven't posted enough to post in the developement section. I have had my pad since they came out. I've rooted and hacked almost every electronic device I've ever had, going back to my Timex Sinclair. I read the delevopement posts numerous times a day. I've flashed this more times than I dare to count (very, very few issues, so few infact, sold my A500). So I go into the developement thread, some guy has asked a question regarding an issue he's having and the response he gets...(I'm paraphrasing), "If you had bothered to read....you wouldn't even of asked". It wasn't even a question of having wifi issues! This person (and others) take the time to go after someone who is asking a ligitimate question (at least in their own mind), and heaven forbid they didn't read all 500 plus posts and that's the response, that's all you got. I've donated, will continue to donate and continue to be amazed at what Leo and the group have done, but I won't ever ask a question on this forum. Maybe it's just a way to get their "Post" numbers up (it's working for me). I read many posts about how great this group is, and yet we need to blast folks...those of you that do so must be the same folks driving up and down HWY 41 everyday! I'm done...now I have two posts. Oh and thanks Leo, more $ on it's way!
So you think the Touchpad mods suck? Or you think requiring 10 posts before posting in development sucks?
Personally I think 80% of what gets posted in development isn't development. IMO hail to the TP mods for getting the Q and A section added!
If you wanna post in development, go actually contribute by answering questions.
The 10 post rule is to weed out spammers. It isn't hard to get 10 legit helpful posts.
Sent from something with a Ｋモ尺れモㄥ.
Jwoc12 said:
I'm writing here because I haven't posted enough to post in the developement section. I have had my pad since they came out. I've rooted and hacked almost every electronic device I've ever had, going back to my Timex Sinclair. I read the delevopement posts numerous times a day. I've flashed this more times than I dare to count (very, very few issues, so few infact, sold my A500). So I go into the developement thread, some guy has asked a question regarding an issue he's having and the response he gets...(I'm paraphrasing), "If you had bothered to read....you wouldn't even of asked". It wasn't even a question of having wifi issues! This person (and others) take the time to go after someone who is asking a ligitimate question (at least in their own mind), and heaven forbid they didn't read all 500 plus posts and that's the response, that's all you got. I've donated, will continue to donate and continue to be amazed at what Leo and the group have done, but I won't ever ask a question on this forum. Maybe it's just a way to get their "Post" numbers up (it's working for me). I read many posts about how great this group is, and yet we need to blast folks...those of you that do so must be the same folks driving up and down HWY 41 everyday! I'm done...now I have two posts. Oh and thanks Leo, more $ on it's way!
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Hello there.
Trust me I understand the frustration. I don't like it much either. But the monster has been created and we need to tame it. The bigger question is how.
I personally don't like building up thread counts and can attribute a ton of posts are not dev related.
One idea I'm working on is cleaning up the OP with more usable content to help the new comers and help guide those that are not. I am working on a Q&A link that will be a PDF that helps shine light on some of the problems we have. Also there is room for me to make a very initiative installation guide in PDF form for people to print and have the ability to make notes to help guide thru the process.
While people jump the gun and are on attack mode at times, many times they aren't. The thread is so large its hard to even search for answers so that's where I get the point. I hope you don't let ur frustrations stop you from using the rom.
I also plan on talking to a few people that can help answer via pm. This will take the load off.
I appreciate ur feedback and support and just know that 99% of the guys are good folks.
Have a good one
~leo
Sent from my PG86100 using Tapatalk
"So you think the Touchpad mods suck? Or you think requiring 10 posts before posting in development sucks?"
Didn't say either...point was, I couldn't respond directly in the development forum...
"If you wanna post in development, go actually contribute by answering questions."
That's just funny....proves my point, somewhat (though I guess I didn't ask a question). I can't "contribute" for 2 reasons; first, don't have enough posts, second, don't know enough. That's why I go there numerous times a day, to try and learn. Someday, I hope I can contribute. Right now I do it with my pocket book. (Is that one word or two?). However, if you ever need help with an insurance claim, I can knock your socks off!
Seriously and thank you again as usual Leo. I know the vast majority of folks are trying to be helpful. There are a few right now though that post a lot and many of those posts are not helpful, just rude (I had a tough day at work, try managing an insurance claims dept, talk about rude). Sorry about the 500 too, should have read more carefully...
I'm typing this on my computer. I just started getting "FCs" with the XDA app, not kidding... what are the chances...suppose I got what I deserved...
Everyone, have a great weekend.
I know of the posts you're referring too, and most of the reason why we're getting aggravated is because most of the answers can be found in the OP of the thread. It's gets really old when we're told 15 times a day that wifi doesn't work.
Sent from my GT-i9100 (faux Touchpad) using Tapatalk.
Ill tell you whats equally annoying. When you subscribe to a Dev thread to see when something gets updated, and you get an email notification every time someone responds with "cant wait" or "me too" or "this+1". I understand people are excited, Im excited for it too, but its seems people just like posting for the sake of posting. If I was a dev trying to follow what problems people were having, Id pull my hair out trying to weed through all the nonsense.
And now for the ever so annoying....."end rant." (hate that equally)
I'd like to agree with all the points made here and also refer to the video azrienoch made a while ago referring to noobs. Some posters thinking they have enough posts to ignore basic etiquette. Its actually better to sit on the sidelines and learn rather than post unnecessary things. I feel like it's a good idea to ponder your post to consider if you can find the answer another way, post in a more topic related thread or just render the post useless.
Sent from my lil electrify
I fully understand getting aggravated. Again, 30 + years in insurance claims, heard it all. The question is how do we show/express that aggravation. My "job" includes dealing with aggravation/frustration in a professional manner. Dealing with my wife, my kids and now grand kids. I must show restraint. I understand this isn't your job, and in my opinion, even more reason to show restraint and compassion. Who cares if a person hasn't read all the posts (and weeded through all the superfluous stuff as mentioned above (agree by the way). Maybe they missed it, maybe they didn't understand it, maybe they work 12 hours a day and don't have the time to read every post and are simply looking to "friends" to give them a hand. There are a lot more important things to get aggravated about. And Krunk (can I call you Krunk?), I've read a lot of your posts, you can be extremely helpful and your are obviously extremely knowledgeable. Use your powers for good! I'm a good guy, I mean no disrespect. I do understand all the experienced folks getting annoyed with the same questions. I need to practice what I preach and show some grace (patience and understanding) to those on HWY 41 (between Fresno and Yosemite). Again, thanks for listening. Now I have to figure out how to remove the Rom, update WebOS (can't we just get rid of that....I know, I know, asked answered ) and put Rom back on. Take care all.
Thar
slicedcheese said:
I'd like to agree with all the points made here and also refer to the video azrienoch made a while ago referring to noobs. Some posters thinking they have enough posts to ignore basic etiquette. Its actually better to sit on the sidelines and learn rather than post unnecessary things. I feel like it's a good idea to ponder your post to consider if you can find the answer another way, post in a more topic related thread or just render the post useless.
Sent from my lil electrify
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That Azrienoch video is great. He put a lot of time in making that one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmvCpR45LKA
I understand what u meen op and i wanna help people out too but 90% of the stuff on those forums is flying on the internet and noone cares to search. Just google it. Tthats the first place i look at and 9/10 times the answer is there. Also if u really want to help someone out and you acnt because u got restricted send them a PM and carry on. This way u help the guy out and dont spend 1h arguing with somebody over something offtopick.
Sent from my HTC Ruby using XDA App
Dubble post
Jwoc12 said:
I fully understand getting aggravated. Again, 30 + years in insurance claims, heard it all. The question is how do we show/express that aggravation. My "job" includes dealing with aggravation/frustration in a professional manner. Dealing with my wife, my kids and now grand kids. I must show restraint. I understand this isn't your job, and in my opinion, even more reason to show restraint and compassion. Who cares if a person hasn't read all the posts (and weeded through all the superfluous stuff as mentioned above (agree by the way). Maybe they missed it, maybe they didn't understand it, maybe they work 12 hours a day and don't have the time to read every post and are simply looking to "friends" to give them a hand. There are a lot more important things to get aggravated about. And Krunk (can I call you Krunk?), I've read a lot of your posts, you can be extremely helpful and your are obviously extremely knowledgeable. Use your powers for good! I'm a good guy, I mean no disrespect. I do understand all the experienced folks getting annoyed with the same questions. I need to practice what I preach and show some grace (patience and understanding) to those on HWY 41 (between Fresno and Yosemite). Again, thanks for listening. Now I have to figure out how to remove the Rom, update WebOS (can't we just get rid of that....I know, I know, asked answered ) and put Rom back on. Take care all.
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Everyone calls me Krunk
I put my FAQ in my signature to help with most questions regarding the Touchpad
Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
Jwoc12, I re read what you wrote and just want to say thanks for reminding me of when I first got my OG Droid back in the day. I've always been good with tech, I'm even a 2ND level network admin, but boy do I remember feeling over whelmed just rooting Froyo back then, haha.
Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
I agree with the rants on both sides in this thread.
I understand the need to "weed out the newbs", but 10 posts doesn't make someone think any more than not having 10 posts makes them brainless.
On the on other hand, it will weed out those who just want to show up and quickly troll (you have to be a dedicated troll to get past the restriction).
I've been frustrated many, many times with the fact that I cannot respond to questions that I know I can answer... one I answered via pm, but I don't think the person ever noticed.
One thing I find extremely confusing is how people are getting around these limits.
I've seen more than a few posts in the XRON dev thread by people with only 2 or 3 posts! (yet another just showed up, asking a question that I can answer)
It honestly wouldn't take more than a few minutes to post 10 things on the entire XDA site if you're that concerned.
Posting in the developers threads is for developers or people troubleshooting development issues, you sound like you just want to throw your 2 cents in and have everyone tell you how great you are.
mini rant
While I understand your frustration I just can not agree with you on several comments you made. The thread that you are speaking about is extremely long as you stated. You stated yourself that you read every post and go through pages of posts per day. And let me say that I thank you for doing the right thing and reading everything before posting.
I do work 10 hour days and while yes it would be easier for me to rude and just ask a question in the middle of a thread that has already been answered or addressed I dont do it. Why? Its rude and lazy. These extra posts waste everyone's time because everyone that follows the thread has that many more post to read and go through. Its a huge waste of time.
I hate to go on a little mindless rant but I do not like the way of thinking that people have today. Its a me first attitude. They dont read whats already posted or google it(which takes 2 seconds). Instead they cut off the flow of the post or conversation to ask a question that is not relevant or has already been answered.
I myself have yet to ask a question. Why? Am I super smart? NO I am not. But by reading the posts and googling what I had trouble finding I was able to find my answers.
Ok sorry about my rant. Everyone can go back to what they were doing. I just had to get this out as I have seen way too much of this lately.
theniel said:
It honestly wouldn't take more than a few minutes to post 10 things on the entire XDA site if you're that concerned.
Posting in the developers threads is for developers or people troubleshooting development issues, you sound like you just want to throw your 2 cents in and have everyone tell you how great you are.
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It's not obvious which one of us you're responding to, but it is moderately obvious that you're trolling, but I'll bite anyways just in case you're actually serious (and referring to me).
XDA, even in the general section, when you're under 10 posts, limits you to 1 post per 5 minutes (this includes editing your own posts for accuracy, which is how I found out). So much for your "only a few minutes" theory.
You obviously haven't read the XDA dev thread at all (I've read > 95% of the posts in that thread) or you wouldn't be posting such a reply about the purpose of the thread.
The frustrating question I was referring to that I wanted to answer wasn't for glory (are you serious?), it was to stem the 2 day flood of useless answers this poor person received (half were unhelpful, the others were flaming, leaving this poor person extremely frustrated). Not one person gave the reply I ended up sending the person in a PM, but the thread was derailed (for at least the hundredth time) extensively with a very non-development-related topic. My intent was solely to stem this and bring the thread back on topic.
First let me clarify, my comment or "title" ...10 posts was simply to say I could not post what I was about to say in the developement section....nothing to do with the rule. It is what it is...If I could think of 10 important things to say, it would not be difficult to get to 10 posts. What I was trying to say and what is now happening even in this little tread is that is it really necessary to go after folks for voicing an opinion or asking a question etc. Again, using my silly analogy, some "fool" is tailgating my butt down HWY 41 (with a line of cars all doing 65 (55 posted) and finally pulls out and around (scarring the crap out of the guy coming the other way) just to get one car ahead. 5 minutes later were right next to each other at the light (HWY 41 and 145 (google it)). What's the point. How pissed off do I really want to get? Just back off and let them go....folks complain about the continued same question (you say google, then why have the forum?), then we see pages of people pissed off, now people have to read through all that. For what it's worth, I've see a lot less of it recently in the dev forum, and that's a good thing...right? Let people ask their questions, point them in the right direction (or just let it go). Hey Krunk, I have the original droid, that was fun, son has it now, he's playing with MUIU. I remember setting up a "clean room" in my home back in the day to put additional memory in my Amiga 1000. I think I even put the cat in a hazmat suit! My wife still gives me grief over that. It's all about fun!
I would ask that if you have ideas on how to improve this forum please send me a PM. I have been moderator for th TP for just a couple weeks and I am cleaning things more everyday.
So I understand the need to security. Having worked in security for several year.
I have been a member of these forums for well over a year now. I have made two posts because all my questions have been answered, and rather than being redundant, I search the forums, I don't badger people and I spend my time trying to figure out the generalities for myself. I feel that helps me to learn more if I muddle through some of it myself. Granted, I have bricked 2 phones in the process, but I understood the risks before hand, and blame no one but myself.
All this being said. I have found a flaw in a process for this phone. I was going to post my experience with it, to help some of those with the same issue, and found that I am not allowed to post in development forums until I have 10 posts. Therefore my knowledge is failing to reach those that need it. For at the rate I am going, by the time I have 10 useful posts, it will be circa 2015, and the fix will no longer be needed.
As I opened with, I understand the need for security, however I was wondering about possibly a grandfather clause, or an exception to the rule? I post here simply because it seems to be one of the few places I can post, and hopefully someone will read this that can fix my issue. If not, at least possibly this will be one more post toward my post count.
For anyone interested... my issue was trying to get my phone from Black Spyder ROM to stock because I needed to return the phone. I followed the instructions listed here in hope that it would work. I found that in the FlashLNX.sh file some of the file names weren't named the same as the ones in the folder I had downloaded. I also wanted to help with other peoples issues that I had come across myself and figured out on my own. I wished to list all this one that thread, to assist those people. To walk them through how to edit the files. Most people here use windows, and I am doing this process on linux. Therefore I feel I could have provided insight into why it wasn't working for those with linux. As most of the thread seemed to address windows.
Anyway. I think I am getting off track. My post here is simply to show the admin that possibly I am worthy of a grandfather clause, or to up my post count with something I hope is considered useful.
Thanks for reading my rant.
I failed to mention that I did manage to fix my phone, and get it back to stock.
I did softbrick it once or twice, but I found my problem simply by being persistent, and not throwing it across the room.
And something that was not mentioned in my above linked post is that after you do the process described, you have to wipe user data.... That is what almost got me.
(Wow! As I tried to post this as an afterthought, I found that I also have to wait 5 minutes to post a followup!) I love XDA forums. It is the first and almost exclusive forums I go to for all android related issues/questions, but trying to participate is getting.... interesting....
Have you taken your meds today? LOL
MyEntityRemains said:
Have you taken your meds today? LOL
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I am fairly certain these are the kinds of posts they hope to weed out by making 10 posts mandatory . So they might see how you act towards others. I am not "taking medication". I merely expressed my concern that not everyone is a troll, bot, or out to cause strife. And hope that perhaps some people in the thread I linked might find this information and contact me for my fix. Even though this "fix" is no where near where it should be.
shipleythump said:
I am not "taking medication". I merely ...
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But there *is* medication. It can make you a little sleepy but it makes the voices stop. Would you like some?
shipleythump said:
I am fairly certain these are the kinds of posts they hope to weed out by making 10 posts mandatory . So they might see how you act towards others. I am not "taking medication". I merely expressed my concern that not everyone is a troll, bot, or out to cause strife. And hope that perhaps some people in the thread I linked might find this information and contact me for my fix. Even though this "fix" is no where near where it should be.
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Whats the point, do you have a problem with razr? And, how old are you?
Enviado de meu XT910 usando o Tapatalk 2
I think security discussions are generally useful.
That said, I have a feeling the 10 post minimum is enforced by the forum software... not sure a mod can override.
Your best bet may be to find some other interesting threads and post (useful comments to increment your post count.
The post count is there for a reason and it helps all concerned as if we did not have this the forum would be full of SPAM as bots are able to post on 0 and also low level posters are able to post anywhere to which increases the amount of posts being moved since in incorrect areas, increasing the workload to Mods to which is an unpaid job..............
As other have stated it's not that hard to get 10 posts since there is a general and Q&A area.
On that note thread closed.
I know many may disagree. But I need to get this off of my chest. I get tired of people that don't want to help or or are just rude about giving advice. I thought forums were supposed to be a community of people that are here to help each other, not belittle them.
I understand that some questions are obvious and sometimes people don't do enough research before asking questions. But here is my opinion: if you don't want to give an answer other than the typical "do you know what Google is?" Or the ever present rude comments then keep it to yourself.
The whole idea of how a person can be rude on the internet without any sort of consequence because they are sitting behind a computer or a phone or what have you is disgusting to say the least.
The concept of being kind to each other is nearly gone in this world...
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im not one the many cause i agree with you on that..
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It has a lot to do with placing a tremendous amount of value in something that really doesn't mean anything all, one's ego. If some people got over themselves and spent the same amount of energy to help as they did to be snotty and cocky, this would be a much better community to learn together. Instead some would rather hold on to their knowledge as they think it elevates them. Get over yourself and contribute. This is a community, not a place of worship.
Thank you for taking the time to create this thread.
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Also these ppl fail to realize is that even tho the question has already been answer it makes easier for noobies to find the answer without sifting through 500 pages.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using xda app-developers app
This doesn't belong here.
This section is for General topics concerning the device itself, there is an actual xda General section to post general topics concerning all of xda.
this is a development site first and foremost, not a help desk, you're perfectly ok to post your questions in the q&a section, and most roms should have an accompanying q&a thread so as not to have the same questions come up making reading the thread to see what DEVELOPMENTS have occurred get buried in a mess. If that were adhered to more it would go smoother.
Furthermore there has been a depressing shift in the user attitude as of late that is kinda burning us old timers out.
Instead of working with devs and getting a nice feedback, a vast majority is demanding and entitled.
Like the post a couple above me
...You know the answer just answer me, otherwise shut up...
Whereas it should be
"You've worked hard let me put forth a bit of effort so you can have some spare time"
TL;DR
you say they are rude for telling you to search.
Whereas you're being rude by not searching.
studacris said:
This doesn't belong here.
This section is for General topics concerning the device itself, there is an actual xda General section to post general topics concerning all of xda.
this is a development site first and foremost, not a help desk, you're perfectly ok to post your questions in the q&a section, and most roms should have an accompanying q&a thread so as not to have the same questions come up making reading the thread to see what DEVELOPMENTS have occurred get buried in a mess. If that were adhered to more it would go smoother.
Furthermore there has been a depressing shift in the user attitude as of late that is kinda burning us old timers out.
Instead of working with devs and getting a nice feedback, a vast majority is demanding and entitled.
Like the post above me
"You know the answer just answer me, otherwise shut up"
Whereas it should be
"You've worked hard let me put forth a bit of effort so you can have some spare time"
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Your point is understood and that is a side i did forget and my statement was more geared toward the one that actually need the help verse the pertinacious fellows that are out here being lazy i ment no offense with my statement
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Ah, the old prickly problem of internet ego. I can say anything that I want because I sit behind this keyboard and am not face-to-face with the actual person. I love you!!, I hate you!! You are a genius. So stupid, smh. So easy to type these things. Very few have the cojones to say these things to someone's face. Hence the dawn of the e-peen.
Sorry to say that it is here to stay. I believe it first showed its head shortly after Al Gore invented the internet. In fact I think that his e-peen was the one that first broke through because, well he invented it.
When I first came to XDA, I knew very little about Android. I knew what Root was and that was about it. So I read and read a bit more. The phone I had was released and abandoned on Éclair (no app2sd), a locked bootloader (wtf was a bootloader) and only had 256 RAM and 512 ROM. Not a lot of space. So we had to repartition our extSD card to create a partition to where the apps could install. That meant learning how to partition/format an SD card, learning the scripts to run it and then the actual install with terminal. It took time. Fortunately there was a few people in that forum that helped as much as they could. No one was spoonfeeding but rather spurring a possible future dev. Plus they we just being nice.
Fast forward 2+years. Android has gone from a niche market (Donut/Éclair) to a superpower in the market (GB/ICS/JB). Everyone knows someone who has an Android. Before this boom, it was all about Nokia, HTC and Blackberry, none of which used Android as a platform.
With fame come the masses. Like I said above, everyone knows someone with an Android device. Teenagers, business people, grandparents,...heck I've taught my two young sons how to root their Nook Colors and they are in K & 1st grade. Guess what site is almost alwasy at the top of any Android Google search? ---> XDA-Developers.
The best thing that I can tell you is that if you can help, then please do in one of two short posts. Anything beyond that, then they need to do more research and reading. It doesn't cost anything to answer, but if someone responds with a snarky remark and then it escalates, well that could cost you your privileges of being able to post here via infractions and bans for flaming. No one wants that. Steer the questions to the Q&A section and out of the Dev section(s). The Q&A sections is a "dumping ground" so to say. It was created to relieve the non-development posts in dev threads. It works, if use correctly.
Searching is Rule #1 but there is also Rule #2 about being Courteous and Flaming. Just because they are #2 doesn't make them any less important.
tl;dr Answer if you can in 1 or 2 posts. If not, then direct to Q&A. No flames but try to be nice about how you respond.
Didn't mean for this to be so long but I see this thread at least 10 times a week.
Thread Closed
Oooh wait, I forgot something. One way that you can help people that are actually using the Search function is to put thread tags at the bottom of the threads. That way when someone searches, maybe that thread or issue will pop up. I just checked the Dev section (not OrgDev) and in the top 10 threads in there, not a single one has any Tags in it. Could be useful to put some in there, don't you think? Fixed a problem with GPS, then put a tag in there like "GPS fix on pg 152". BT now works, put a tag in there that "BT is working on this ROM".
Al Gore didn't invented the internet? And Woody Sir...I love You!:silly::silly: