(Survey Closed - Results Below)ASUS Prime Online Objective Survey & Results Review
Ok fellas,
I have constructed an online survey questionnaire as I have previously suggested here
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1707406&page=31
This way issues can be objectively collected and centralised – and if follow up is needed by ASUS. This online survey only serves to kickstart “things” in a more directional fashion, rather than the usual scattered complaints which are difficult to follow and sometime lead to a lot of duplications.
Hopefully we can get as many people to do this and we can get the general idea what is going on with our prime.
Also, if the data is useful enough, maybe we can get some of the guys in here who are close to asus to send them the data and hopefully they will do something about it. Or following the data collection, perhaps a second detailed survey can be collected to home in into issues that matter most to the end-users.
The link for the survey is here - And you can see the cumulative results at the end of the survey
https://kwiksurveys.com?s=MLKOKM_b334b37b
Note:
(1) At the end of the survey, the cumulative results are shown(hence instant result – no secret statistics to hide). And individual result is there for everyone to see and follow.
(2) Questions marked “*” are compulsory
(3) Please answer non-compulsory questions if possible so better picture can be drawn in the end
(4) If your cookie is enabled, you can change your answer after completing the questionnaire but only one survey is considered valid per ip address
(5) If you have suggestions on what other questions there are to add or details to add, pm me and I will change it. Or if you note any gross logical error in the construction of the questions, pm me.
Disclosure of interest:
I don't know anyone from ASUS. I neither work for ASUS nor have worked for ASUS and I don't work for rival companies. I am doing this as part of (or lack of) my contribution to this forum.
Update (20/06) - Survey is now closed See results review at post #23 #24 #25 #26 #27
all.pdf - all results to date (164 responses)
anyappfcanr.pdf - filtered against ANR's/FC's with ANY apps at ANY duration (just a sample idea 1)
specificappfcanr.pdf - filtered against ANR's/FC's with SPECIFIC apps at ANY duration (just a sample idea 2)
The results can be filtered against multiple criteria. If you have a request, tell me and I will do it at my earliest opportunity. Raw data can also be exported into xml/xls/csv format.
I filled out the survey. I want to give you a huge THANKS for doing this. And Asus should give you a free Infinity lol
Yuhfhrh said:
I filled out the survey. I want to give you a huge THANKS for doing this. And Asus should give you a free Infinity lol
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No worry dude. Used to think that linux has mind of its own. But this thing is in a different league, seems like a living organism/psychopathic ex-gf to me. I am baffled.
maxfac1234 said:
No worry dude. Used to think that linux has mind of its own. But this thing is in a different league, seems like a living organism/psychopathic ex-gf to me. I am baffled.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That pretty much hits the nail on the head. This tablet is very temperamental. You never know how of is going to act when you boot it up.
cause to ponder
I have been in IT for 30 years now, and have used just about every device ever made or at least one representative sample. The only people I ever see complaining about devices are generally people who don't read up on them, load way too many conflicting apps into them, or try to do way too much, and complain because everything doesn't work - what I call "Swiss army knife syndrome". Most of the above can be attributed to pure inexperience. Of course statistically 5-10% of the people doing anything on the planet just aren't pleased with anything, so you have to take that number right off the top - they will never know how obstinate they are so don't bother. I have had very few problems with this device, and I do not consider myself lucky - just experienced. Great survey. I really hope it helps!
Some preliminary results
So far there 72 responses over the last almost 24hours – Which I think isn't bad.
(1) I have pasted the “compact” "raw" data in pdf form in the OP / post #1– And I will try to do this for every 50-response-increment. There are two files:
i. all the results
ii.the results filtered against those who have problems with ANR's/FC's with ANY apps at ANY duration (just to give you the idea and sample what the tabulated data look like) – Question #22 in the survey.
(Edit 1): I'd forgotten to click "expand" for the "text based input results" - In case you're wondering why they appear truncated.
(2) The result can be filtered – e.g. information "just from rooted users" or information "just from users who have x problem(s)" – If you want to view any data filtered with certain criteria, tell me and I will try to do it when I am free and post it here for everyone to follow up. Unfortunately the particular website I am using doesn't allow me to filter against serial number right now as it requires 4 alphanumerics in the filter field – However, the expanded raw data can be exported into csv/xml/xls format for anyone who is interested.
More inputs please.
@photogf4
Maybe you should beginning read some of the many treads about Primes problems and issues before you make a statement like yours. There is a VERY GOOD REASON why no one else still had a quad core tablet out for sale (including Asus themself !) Asus olso accept that they have problems with Prime .
Please notice; XDA people that have problems with Prime are NOT Android novices. I promise you, that they all have trying much, much more then normal customers will and can do to to find a solution on Primes very stranges behavior.
Wow, sorry... I didn't expect a guilty conscience so soon! I assure you i read xda nearly daily, and it is a fabulous reference with serious people serious about making these devices the best they can be. I am not trolling, just making an observation. I maintain that he 80% of people left need to ask themselves if they are causing their own problems before they skew the survey. Thanks to xda i have a cell that i can manage my entire company network with, and two tablets -101 and 201 that run flawlessly ( I gave my Apple tablet to someone else). Any problem I have ever had was my own fault, other than gps. I bought a few 201's for my staff, and they don't have problems either!! Don't blame the hardware until you look at the software.
An additional observation is that if no one on xda used the developers' product and discussed it here, this would be moot. Thu site needs users as well, and i appreciate the privilege.
photogf4 said:
I have been in IT for 30 years now, and have used just about every device ever made or at least one representative sample. The only people I ever see complaining about devices are generally people who don't read up on them, load way too many conflicting apps into them, or try to do way too much, and complain because everything doesn't work - what I call "Swiss army knife syndrome". Most of the above can be attributed to pure inexperience. Of course statistically 5-10% of the people doing anything on the planet just aren't pleased with anything, so you have to take that number right off the top - they will never know how obstinate they are so don't bother. I have had very few problems with this device, and I do not consider myself lucky - just experienced. Great survey. I really hope it helps!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So what your saying is Asus is sending out updates, gps dongles and rma's just for fun? 30 years in IT ....you might want to look into taking some refresher courses or perhaps a a new line of work.
Enough with the personal attacks... try and stay on topic!
The last four posts have gone waaayyy of topic. Please stay on topic which in this case is a user survey regarding problems people are having with the Prime, and please keep all comments constructive.
Thanks.
Good idea!
Just filled the survey! Thank you for your time!
I have a problem that I haven't solved yet, and I hope this survey helps in any way!
Thank you again!
PS: BTW, here's my problem explained http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1716591
Sorry about the post.
I did not mean to go off topic, but for anyone to come and deny that the Prime has no problems is just unrepresentative of the community as a whole. I do realize that some problems are user induced but most of these are well documented across many different user bases! If this were not so, we would not see ASUS patching and working with consumers on this somewhat personal level.
I have to believe with the data at hand that the problems lie in the manufacturing of the device or materials used. It looks like someone's quality assurance department fell asleep on the job, and now many people suffer from problems, and maybe even ASUS because one manufacturer let some bad material pass that should of been tested more thoroughly.
But hopefully, the data collected from this survey is pointing to some common things that many users are experiencing, which will be able to be addressed with new firmware and software. Thanks for creating the survey and I wish I could take it again because I did not know you had to save each page as you went along and only saved the last page, which did not let me see the current tally. Peace, V
@vvveith
I had a look at the survey again and how it works - You don't have to save each page as you go along - They are automatically saved - In the end, it should show you the cumulative results. But again there may be quirks that I am not aware of.
However, if you want to do it again and put some comments in - Just go to the same link and do it again - but from what I understood from the website that provide the service, each ip is logged to prevent multiple entries, so
(1) if you do it again (with your cookie previously enable and still available), then your result based on your ip will be changed accordingly (I have enabled this in the survey setting)
but
(2) if you do it again (with your cookie previously disabled or cookie is not available), then your survey input will just be rejected
(3) the other workaround is for you to hook onto your neighbour's free wifi or work's ip
(General) in any case, I will be updating the full unfiltered results soon. If you have a specific request, i.e. to have the results filtered against specific criteria, just make it known here and I will try do it.
Update 19/06
I've updated the survey results (see OP/post #1):
all.pdf - all results to date (127 responses)
anyappfcanr.pdf - filtered against ANR's/FC's with ANY apps at ANY duration (just a sample idea 1)
specificappfcanr.pdf - filtered against ANR's/FC's with SPECIFIC apps at ANY duration (just a sample idea 2)
A thought:
(1) A quick glance at these results shows some recurring themes in terms of the good, bad and ugly.
(2) This “to date/.28” survey not only shows magnitude of certain issues (evidenced by answers to compulsory questions on certain well known issues) but also shows some improvements in certain other areas (again evidenced by answers to compulsory questions and the free-text based inputs). However a quick glance also show some not-so-new minor issues which are still persistent (the list of these problems mostly in the free-text based inputs)
(3) If I understood some of the other posts in other threads correctly, the beta testers are testing .28.5 – This “to date/.28” survey will be a good baseline shall we all want to run a second survey.
(4) If a second survey is run (after .28.5 or newer that is), we can home in into bigger issues found in this survey with more details – and see where improvements/deteriorations occur in a more objective fashion. And at the same time assess the magnitude of minor issues listed in this survey by formalizing them into multiple choices.
Essentially, next categorization (based on usability with assumption “what lay people would possibly find frustrating” rather than pure technical aspect it) would be:
High frequency non-severe issue (e.g. gps, wifi intermittent dropping)
High frequency severe issue (e.g. severe wifi drops with distance, ANR's and FC's)
Low frequency non-severe issue (e.g. small number of specific apps with ANR's/FC's)
Low frequency severe issue (e.g sleep of death and failed update - ?semi brick)
Mystical issue
Have a look at the results.
maxfac1234 said:
I've updated the survey results (see OP/post #1):
all.pdf - all results to date (127 responses)
anyappfcanr.pdf - filtered against ANR's/FC's with ANY apps at ANY duration (just a sample idea 1)
specificappfcanr.pdf - filtered against ANR's/FC's with SPECIFIC apps at ANY duration (just a sample idea 2)
A thought:
(1) A quick glance at these results shows some recurring themes in terms of the good, bad and ugly.
(2) This “to date/.28” survey not only shows magnitude of certain issues (evidenced by answers to compulsory questions on certain well known issues) but also shows some improvements in certain other areas (again evidenced by answers to compulsory questions and the free-text based inputs). However a quick glance also show some not-so-new minor issues which are still persistent (the list of these problems mostly in the free-text based inputs)
(3) If I understood some of the other posts in other threads correctly, the beta testers are testing .29 – This “to date/.28” survey will be a good baseline shall we all want to run a second survey.
(4) If a second survey is run (after .29 that is), we can home in into bigger issues found in this survey with more details – and see where improvements/deteriorations occur in a more objective fashion. And at the same time assess the magnitude of minor issues listed in this survey by formalizing them into multiple choices.
Have a look at the results.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
actually the new build I'm testing is .28.5 they could end up sending me an even newer one though.
demandarin said:
actually the new build I'm testing is .28.5 they could end up sending me an even newer one though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
woot woot *corrected. Thanks fella. Looking forward to the new build soon!
demandarin said:
actually the new build I'm testing is .28.5 they could end up sending me an even newer one though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And how's it looking so far?
Did the survey. Thanks for putting this together.
However, few suggestions:
- add SKU to the base questions
- add dock / no dock to the questions
- add no issue as a separate answer
- add common answers given as text as separate answer
... Just some ideas. Also, could you compile a comparison between root and stock?
Thank you.
Sent from my HTC Desire using xda premium
tobi01001 said:
Did the survey. Thanks for putting this together.
However, few suggestions:
- add SKU to the base questions
- add dock / no dock to the questions
- add no issue as a separate answer
- add common answers given as text as separate answer
... Just some ideas. Also, could you compile a comparison between root and stock?
Thank you.
Sent from my HTC Desire using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good ideas - all.
Also: SOD? I did not see it in the survey, and I am hit with it, lately VERY infrequently, but yes, I have had an SOD event (just a single occurrence) on .28
Though I wonder how to effectively track text based answers, they can provide additional dat that would otherwise not be picked up. I think this is an idea who's time has really arrived. Too many unscientific and off the cuff observations around these forums. Thank you very much for this. A good set of data, even with some margin of error is extremely valuable as a tool for some honest measurements in the field. I would venture to say that the respondents here are somewhat more "polarized" (to put it mildly) and that the BASIC group of non-techie Prime owners are, in many case not even AWARE that their tablet has issues, unless they are painful, or incapacitating is some noticeable way.
What has always been my biggest annoyance with the Prime is it's obvious lack of a major performance advantage over the OG Transformer, which I sold to buy this. Yes, it is slim, and pretty, and had all the ingredients for a technical slam-dunk. It has just never "wowed" me like I expected.
anyway, I got off subject there, or rather too detailed for this particular thread. I liked that the guy with the sensors issue simply linked to his thread, instead of going off all over the place like... er... well, like me, I guess. Sorry bout that. One thing you can NOT accuse Prime owners of is not being passionate about their tablets.
Thanks again for doing this. Perhaps a quick update after the ew firmware would be good as was suggested.
Related
So, if rooting the g tablet is the way to go, it surely must stand up to a few simple speed checks. Has anyone posted various root's numbers or have some to post?
Stuff like, time to boot? Time to load common apps? Time to open the same web page? Frames on games? Time to download? Max browser pages open? Other relevant numbers welcome...
As far as I can tell, without any objective numbers comparing root performance, a lot of this rooting fad raves could just be subjective reported elation about being able to be different.
Granted, originally, the Gtab OS had some flaws. That's old news, get over it. How do the current roots compare with OTA version 3588? I'm somewhat shocked not one of the pack of geeks that have rooted their G tab hasn't backed up their raves with real numbers...
Granted, being rooted to the latest vegan might get access to the full Android market, and perhaps even future updates in Android... However, if I'm finding most of what I want at Amazon Android, is rooting worth the trouble until the roots and android versions stabilize? Show us the NUMBERS...!
I've been there done that with this subjective stuff long enough not to be swayed without real numbers...
Also, do any of these roots do OTA auto updates or do root updates require a download & re-root? Just asking...
Jesus christ if you can't do a simple search for benchmark tests then I highly suggest getting the ipad2. I hear that the ipad 2 reads your mind so out don't have to do any search. We've only had a kazillion threads on this.
Edit
This is not to mention all the YouTube vids on this people have posted.
Edit again.
Actually, here are a few.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1047098&highlight=benchmark+2011
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=12984546&postcount=9
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=12986416&postcount=10
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=12986416&postcount=10
Edit again.
I'm serious, I highly suggest the ipad 2 to everyone I talk to. Speaking as someone who repairs computers as a side job, I'm fully aware that most people want to be spoon fed everything, which is why the ipad 2 is the ideal device for most people. If people want to complain about nothing, let apple deal with them.
Thanks for the links.
However, as best as I can tell, they seem to verify that the OTA updated Gtablet is about the same speed as Vegan in the benchmarks when the CPU speeds are similar.
However, do the benchmarks used translate into much of relevance to speed of actually using the tablet to open programs, boot the tablet, download & open web pages. Stuff that people actually do with the tablet... Unless that's what the benchmarks are testing... But that info isn't provided in the links. Again -- weak...
The numbers and detail provided in these links deserve barely more than a C grade, if that... And what they provide seems to be at equal speeds, the current OTA updated gtab OS works fine... As long as you don't need the full Adroid market...
You Tube links? As best as I can tell, not one of them is an objective comparison with the OTA 3588 update gtab. They are just videos of vegan working... As far as real world numbers and comparisons -- Grade D-...
Where are the Grade A numbers? It's not that I don't believe the ROMs are not an improvement, it's just where are the numbers to support these raves?
What exactly are you looking for? There are no hard numbers when it comes to real world use, just your user experience versus mine.
You're not telling us what you want. You said you wanted numbers so I gave you a bunch. Then you say you don't want those numbers. So, I ask again. What do you want?
I'll be brutally honest on this one. Vegan isn't that fast. From all my tests, Calkulin+Clemsyn combo is by far the fastest custom rom+kernel for the gtab.
After trying out everything, I'm back to Calkulin+Clemsyn combo.
Would you like me to make a video of myself openning various programs and post it for you? What do you want?
I'm thinking you should drop that 'r' from your handle.
You also have a misconception of what rooting is/does.
To become root in Linux/Android is to gain administrative privileges. In windows root would be called Administrator. Gaining root privileges gives you the ability to change system files and settings, NOTHING MORE. By itself it does nothing.
Now boys...
The fact is that if you need numbers, reports,testimonials or anything else to justify mucking around with the gtab thenyou probably should just get an iPad. Nothing to prove then -everyone "knows" its the best-no numbers needed! The gtab is for people that don't mind the hardware and software quirks as long as they have the freedom to mess around. Its not about the numbers -its about the experience.
[Q] Why should we ..?!
Droofus said:
I've been there done that with this subjective stuff long enough not to be swayed without real numbers...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, I am not sure anyone here is trying to sway you in one direction or the others.
Here is how things go in community forums like this one:
- People search for what they got in mind first.
- If they didn't find its either undoable or not that interesting for the community that no one bothered doing it.
- In both case those people are expected to either drop whatever they are wishing for or pursuit it on there own and then share their findings with the community.
In other words, why the heck am I supposed to go beyond whatever benchmarks readily available on the market to show YOU how good/bad are custom firmwares compared to stock ones when :
- custom firmwares are volatile and each couple of days there is a new rom or rom add on or a kernel released (am I supposed to maintain the stats for every single update released ? else how meaningful would be my outdated stats to you? when it represents a ROM that is no longer a candidate)
- the whole flash back and forth and in between roms is a 10~20 minutes process of YOUR time which would suffice to answer all your questions.
If you still need some usability tests (you can use your own stop watch to time through the videos) you might want to check here.
Best of luck,
Zaphod-Beeblebrox said:
I'm thinking you should drop that 'r' from your handle.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think this was the best answer.
The information you are demanding is indicating your ignorance. As was already stated rooting does nothing for performance. If you want numbers you can install each rom and test with each kernel setting whatever your heart desires. Its not likely anyone else even cares as most people only care about stability and a lack of lag
Droofus said:
So, if rooting the g tablet is the way to go, it surely must stand up to a few simple speed checks. Has anyone posted various root's numbers or have some to post?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Rooting itself does nothing other than giving you root - the speed of your device before and after rooting is identical.
Now, if you want to talk about the speeds with or without an overclocked kernel, or with a custom Froyo vs custom Ginger vs stock rom, as others have said there are plenty of posts out there.
Mine lasted on the stock rom for exactly one boot after opening the box - so I could copy on the bits to begin the rooting/custom rom flashing goodness.
cu_ninja said:
What exactly are you looking for? There are no hard numbers when it comes to real world use, just your user experience versus mine.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What I'm looking for is defined, at least in part, in the first post. Copy and pasted here for your convenience.
Stuff like, time to boot? Time to load common apps? Time to open the same web page? Frames on games? Time to download? Max browser pages open? Other relevant numbers welcome...
If I go to a notebookcheck.net/Computer-Games-on-Laptop-Graphic-Cards, the various card performances in various games are reviewed. The reviews are very professionally and objectively done with detail. Clicking on any specific card opens a detailed review of that card. This allows users to make decisions based upon what sorts of (graphic game) uses they might actually have.
It seems a similar but much smaller objective set of benchmarks could be performed on the various g tablet roots using a set of common uses in part noted above. It doesn't need to be as elaborate or detailed as the video card review site noted above. Just objectively testing a few simple end user tasks would seem to be adequate to get beyond the subjective raves that one commonly sees about this or that OS change...
FYI, part of this is related to my background as a doctor (plus a computer background dating back beyond the Apple II to programming FORTRAN and COMPASS on mainframes in the 1960s). As doctors we are constantly bombarded with all sorts of anecdotal raves about this or that treatment all the time, only to find that they aren't supported by actual objective research -- some cause harm, not healing. Fortunately for those promoting software changes related to raves and fads don't have the potential to cause anyone significant harm... Excuse me if I'd like to see similar objective professional 'standards of care' when it comes to reviewing and analyzing software/hardware fads. I'm sure there are plenty of others in the audience who'd feel the same...
So is this a religious thread, I see Jesus was mentioned.
Actually sometimes you modders act like it.
I'll get the other times later. Here is the startup time.
Droofus said:
FYI, part of this is related to my background as a doctor (plus a computer background dating back beyond the Apple II to programming FORTRAN and COMPASS on mainframes in the 1960s). As doctors we are constantly bombarded with all sorts of anecdotal raves about this or that treatment all the time, only to find that they aren't supported by actual objective research -- some cause harm, not healing. Fortunately for those promoting software changes related to raves and fads don't have the potential to cause anyone significant harm... Excuse me if I'd like to see similar objective professional 'standards of care' when it comes to reviewing and analyzing software/hardware fads. I'm sure there are plenty of others in the audience who'd feel the same...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, while I can see your point, I also have to point out the other side of the argument. I am an engineer. Last year, we got a college graduate who, from the outlook, had all the numbers and credentials. He graduated with almost a perfect gpa. Sounds nice, right? He had all the numbers. The problem was as soon as he began working with us we figured out very quickly that we had a book smart-absolutely no common sense person with us. I swear, he pulled me aside one time and asked me why they were "watering the concrete slabs" in the lab. It got worse from there. I had to explain to him very basic engineering concepts and applications like stirrups, slippage, etc.
This guy actually went through college getting the grades and everything without actually understanding any of it. He graduated with a structural engineering degree without knowing the very simple practical processes of curing concrete or reinforcing footings.
The point is numbers can be deceiving if you ignore annecdotal (aka common sense) evidence. You need both objective numbers and common sense to work in reality. Sure, I've heard plenty of annecdotal nonsense like creationist BS, religious miracles, and homeopathic crap. I'll give you that. But you seem to be on the other extreme side, which is to ignore all personal evidence and place all your bets on pure numbers.
I'm telling you now. We got both the numbers and personal evidence. I'll try to get them for you.
Doofus
I like the list of missing benchmarks you listed. Why don't you measure them and report back?
Droofus said:
What I'm looking for is defined, at least in part, in the first post. Copy and pasted here for your convenience.
Stuff like, time to boot? Time to load common apps? Time to open the same web page? Frames on games? Time to download? Max browser pages open? Other relevant numbers welcome...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
All those numbers are identical before and after rooting your device since nothing changes before and after root, other than you now have root access.
That was easy.
1
2
3
4
5
6
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10
Theres some more random numbers
While watching everyone bash eachother here has its entertainment i have some advice.
Droofus
1 i would recomend not comming into a community forum and bashing people who put a lot of effort into making the product you own better. These people don't get paid for the hours of work they put in.
2 if you don't like how thing are done around here take the time to be a good example and do it better. You clearly have an idea in your head on how to make a professional stastical representation of the roms so do it.
3 what some people are trying to tell you is that it is not all about the numbers. Some people want gingerbread features. Right now all of the gingerbread roms suck for video performance due to driver issues so i don't use them. I like the gingerbread features but i watch videos a lot so i use a froyo rom. Others really care about performance so they give up some stability and overlock.
4 people around here get upset when the same question gets asked over and over again. If you have done some reasearch reference other articles to show that.
5 this is a dual core tablet, what are you doing that you care that much about preformance.
This thing is faster than my netbook.
6 dropping your title on us just makes you sound pretentious. There are a lot of very intellgent successful people here who are not impressed by doctors or your past experience. If you have useful skills to the community don't brag just use them and people will be grateful.
7 people were a little rude about it but they are right. I tell people that if they want something that is easy go buy an ipad or a xoom. If you want something for under 300 then buy a g tab and understand that with some effort it can be great.
Everyone
1 relax... starting flame wars with someone who doesn't know their way around isn't going to help anyone.
I forgot to mention that traditionally us geeks are known for our lack of formal documentation.
P.s. while many of us proudly wear the badge of geek calling us a pack of geeks is a little adversarial.
I need to find a very good DEV who is available to work on a fairly large project.
I am a disabled yet still serving soldier, who has a need for a specific app. This app will help millions of people and I DO plan to market it to both VETS and
NON Vet disabled persons (as well as anyone else who wants it!) Vets will of course have either a free or reduced price option.
You will be required to know every aspect of a project DEV to include the GUI, images, background, visual aid, the Database, it has to "share" and export to several mediums including googleCal and Excel graphs. It may be built with a module style or have a lot of options that can be turned on or off. Some will be protected so it can't be turned off unless a password is entered depending upon the level of disability and functions needed per person.
I will expect a non-disclosure agreement. I have done the paperwork to protect my idea.
I will expect timely completion of phases as well as bug fixes. All of which I am very realistic about. We just need to be in daily or even hourly communication if needed.
This is a long term project that can lead to a permanent type of side job for all the ongoing updates/changes.
I need to get this moving while I am still able to keep track of what I actually need it to do. Your development skills will be instrumental in getting this up and running. You will have full liberty to do the app as you see fit as long as it meets the needs and has the ability to do each task I need. I really don't care how it is done as long as the outcome is correct. I have certain tasks that must be included, you are more than welcome to add your ideas as well.
Payment is of course Negotiable as either upfront or a portion of future income from sales, or possibly both. This will be agreed upon in writing for everyones safety, but this will really be more of a friendly work together type of environment.
Please msg me or reply here for more details.
(Mods, if this is is the wrong category, I apologize. Just move me and I will learn my lesson!)
Must have placed this in the wrong area! I can't seem find a good developer in the entire world that wants to take on a very lucrative (possibly like all good ideas are) project??
Wow Ok anyone know where I should look or post my "Programmer wanted" ad?
You would probably be better posting it in the developer forums rather than Q & A.
Good luck with your project!
All the best,
Ash
I created a poll earlier today to ask whether you were satisfied with your phone and a majority of users stated they were (about 60%), however, for those who have had issues, I'd like to rate exactly what issues you had. I understand most of you had multiple primes, so rate on the one most highest on your priority list.
Lastly the purpose of this is to help keep the consumer informed on issues so they can decide for themselves whether purchasing a prime is worth it.
Please also list the following:
1. First 3-6 digits of your S/N
2. Where you bought it
3. When you bought it
4. Issues with multiple primes if you had them
Issues with 1st Prime from Amazon serial# BCOKA
1. Defective Rear Camera
2. Weak Wifi
Returned to Amazon
Issue with 2nd Prime also from Amazon serial BCOKA
1. Issue when both BT and Wifi are on - Speed degrade by more than half
I'll wait another week and see if Asus can come up with a fix, otherwise I'll return it to Amazon and will stay away from Asus product.
Only Prime:
Serial# in signature
From: Amazon
Ordered: 12/28/2011
Shipped: 1/28/2011
Received: 2/2/2012
My issues:
1. Non-existent GPS. (I know the spec sheet removed it, but I'm pretty sure I ordered right before that announcement)
2. Possible issue with accelerometer/gyroscope. Some motion-based controls feel clunky and unresponsive.
3. Very slight light bleed in a couple areas. Not even noticeable in most conditions.
-- 1 and 3 might be possible to rectify myself per events in http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1474391
Reported...duplicate thread already....u have to use search...doesn't matter if its an old thread...just resurrect it. It'll be different if this was something new you coming up with...but it isnt. this is getting out of hand along with those posting threads on new prime leak...All reported.
What's next another poll on serial numbers? Lol which we already have also. General section getting cluttered up with to much repeat threads of things already discussed or same Ol polls..SMH. to help is by having less clutter to sift thru. Could've easily resurrected the old poll which is exactly the same.
Also to correct your OP, over 80% were satisfied...stop with the fun math..lmfao. add up yes n other poll n over 80% said yes, we satisfied
This is a duplicate poll from all the other discussions, etc.
The FIRST rule of XDA is.....
1. Search before posting.
Use one of our search functions before posting, whether you have a question or something new to share, it's very likely someone already asked that question or shared that news.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good Day,
I am starting this thread to provide general updates and information on current or future products. In addition, at times I will address rumors where applicable.
Request-
1. I travel a lot, especially this time of year as there are numerous events. In addition I am also responsible for notebooks, netbooks, desktops, monitors, networking, audio, motherboards and video cards as part of the Technical Marketing umbrella so the majority of time I spend on forums and assisting users has to be segmented and is usually on my personal time. Having a family also interferes with my personal time as do 14-hour flights.
2. As such, when sending Private Messages please include a contact email address and the serial number of the unit. It will greatly assist me in ensuring that return contact is quicker and less obtrusive.
3. In the very near future, there will be additional ASUS technical support on this site and other Android centric sites for our Tablet products. Obviously this is an extremely important service for our valued customers and the direct feedback allows us to further improve the products.
Items- 3/8/2012
1. For users with the WiFi/BT dropout problem we expect additional materials or replacement units in stock at the repair depots by 3/12. We apologize for some of the lengthy waits a few customers had to endure but it will be solved shortly.
2. As to the rumors of a hardware fix for WiFi/BT dropouts, the actual fix is just ensuring that the hardware utilized in current units is performing to tested standards. Basically to ensure this level of compliance we are replacing components within the WiFi subsystem on an as needed basis and then testing the units before shipment.
3. I am still responding to messages sent during my last two events at the end of February and beginning of March. I should be current by the weekend.
4. I will have some exciting news in about two weeks on the TF201.
5. Expect to see a .16 or later release in the near future with further tweaks and updates.
Rumors - 3/8/2012
1. As to various rumors or threads about every unit having a problem, the numbers indicate otherwise as evidenced in the CNET article and an upcoming followup. While not dismissing there have been some problems, the return/repair rates are no greater than other competing products based on current data and are actually lower than several. I am not going to defend us 100% as like with all manufacturers we have areas of improvement.
2. That being said, I want to discuss a certain population of users who complain about multiple unit problems or seem to have every problem that is discussed in a forum.
a. Of these problem repeat users, around 71% (varies on a monthly basis) never responded to direct communication attempts.
b. Of the remaining users (around 30%), we directly assisted 9% of these users and confirmed actual unit problems. Of the remaining 20% or so, we could not verify all of the problems reported (multiple units, service, returns). However, I would like to give two examples that generally mimic a lot of this 20% contact.
2a- User reported in the forums and private messages purchasing and returning 5+ units, all of which had various problems. Actual purchase history indicated only 3 units purchased and for each purchase the user called for an RMA number, was granted an RMA number that day, and yet returned the unit the next day to the retailer and purchased another unit and then cycled the same process for the next two units. This user also has a repeat history of doing this process for other items including notebooks over the past couple of years and then claiming to receive a new product after said complaints. We tracked down one problem unit based on purchase/serial number history and guess what, no problems discovered and in fact the GPS works wonderfully on this unit as I sit here testing it. As to the other two units, we will locate and test those also.
2b - Users posted numerous times about a multitude of problems and yet would not return the unit for an RMA or replacement and instead offered to quit "*****ing" in the forums if we would provide a free unit, replacement unit or upgrade. We still do not know if said user or users actually owns a unit or not. (note - had this situation play out several times with users in this forum and other forums)
2c - Total number of users we tried to assist reporting multiple TF201 problems - 43. I will leave the math up to you.
Also be aware that some companies will instruct personnel to post problems, complain about products or services and generally ensure some type of problem is mentioned numerous times while pimping their own products in forums. In addition, also be aware that legal representation from firms or users looking for a quick handout or settlement might be doing the same. I know several PMs I have received looked exactly like a legal beagle wrote the questions expecting a response that can be used in trial, especially once you run the message through heuristics. Of course, I could be incorrect and those questions were from extremely articulate individuals with product law knowledge that I apologize to for not answering the questions in requested detail.
As I stated before, I am not excusing any problems actually experienced due to a manufacturing defect or service issue. We certainly can and will improve but based on the hard numbers, what I am seeing is in alignment with most electronics and for the "A" users posting here, just do a search for WiFi, Screen bleed or lockup problems at their forum. This launch has been a humbling process in several areas, we fully recognize it and will improve our services and responses as quickly as possible.
At the same time, the amount of effort we expend tracking down false or misleading reports only serves to disrupt services to valued customers. I know this is part of doing business but it does not make it right. Just my personal opinion.
3/9/2012 Update:
General Comments-
1. Thank you to any members contacting me and including their serial number and email address, it really helps as I now receive email notifications directly once a PM is generated. It will cut down on the time required to respond and allow me access to requests regardless of travel or event schedules. I have one last request, please ensure the email address provided is current and working. About 25% of the email addresses provided yesterday bounced back. I think we cleared all of those up by this morning.
2. I will be working with our North American Service and Customer Care group shortly to train individuals to assist in tracking forum problems (product or service), product suggestions and in providing consistent information to our valued customers in this forum and others. Once we roll this out I will make an introduction to the new team members and contact instructions. I will still be available but will concentrate more on product trends and technical aspects of the hardware and software as this is my primary job responsibility. Of course, if you into a roadblock feel free to contact me.
3. Even though I am North American centric, I am still assisting international users at the moment. Hopefully, those users who contacted me over the past two weeks have been contacted by a regional rep today. If not, probably no later than Monday. In the meantime, the same requests I have asked of our Customer Care group for direct forum support in North America has also been requested of our other regions.
4. I apologize for any delays over the past couple of weeks and I should be current by Sunday night.
Product Comments-
1. Speaking of trends, I have noticed a pattern in several messages over the last couple of weeks with people complaining about slight pauses, hitches or browser closures. One item that seems to be a common thread in most of the messages is that the user recently downloaded the Chrome Beta. I will start a separate thread on this after I speak with Google/Nvidia on Monday. However, if you are up for wasting a few minutes and have these symptoms, please uninstall Chrome, reboot, uninstall Flash, reinstall Flash and see if the native browser works any better along with general system responsiveness.
3/20/21012 Update -
1. I will be back to the forums on 3/22/2012.
2. We will have a major ICS update (.19) arriving shortly (might be .20 now).
3. We will have a major announcement on the TF201 in the near future.
4. We will have dedicated forum assistance starting in the near future.
3/22/2012 Update -
1. I am back for the next few days. I will get caught up on messages and updates shortly.
2. The next firmware update is in qualification testing now. We are also working on solving some flickering problems reported by a few users and hopefully that will be addressed in this next release.
3. The announcements on the TF201 (not being canceled as speculated) will occur as soon as I have a release to do it.
4. Full time forum support at a few Android centric sites will be launched in the near future as discussed.
3/26/2012 Update
1. Firmware Update 9.4.2.21 will be released by 3/30 for North America. Updates and fixes galore for the lack of better words.
3/29/2012 Update -
I hope to announce some TF201 updates in the near future. We are finishing testing and should be able to discuss the update shortly.
4/2/2012 Update -
Still working on the details regarding the announcement and once finalized it will be released as quickly as possible. In addition, I have gathered additional details from a few users who are seeing locks or weirdness after playing a Tegra 3 optimized game after a few hours. I will be in California next week to work with NVIDIA and Google on this problem and browser slowness or closure that a few users have also reported.
4/5/2012 Update -
I guess the cat is out of the bag in regards to the planned announcement discussed above. I cannot comment officially at this point but will provide a detailed update once released to do so. In addition, if you PM me, please include an email address for contact within your message. It will greatly facilitate receiving an answer.
4/9/2012 Update -
I am in California this week to meet with Google, NVIDIA and others on current software packages and upcoming products so there will be some delays in messages. As for the GPS Dongle program on the TF201, we will make an official announcement (program details and registration) next week.
4/20/2102 Update -
Please contact me if you are a North American owner and have any issues with the GPS dongle. To date, testing has proved successful on a wide variety of units but we want to ensure a pleasant user experience. Also, working on validation testing on a new firmware image now.
4/27/2012 Update -
We are still validating a new firmware release. We are also tracking user reported issues with Tegra 3 games, WiFi Direct and some continued random reboot/lock problems with a few units. Based on current regression testing at HQ, NVIDIA and Google it appears we will need to swap out a few units to pinpoint exact user problems. For the unlocked audience, we have requested a version of NVFlash that works properly for users who unlocked their units.
5/3/2012 Update -
We have new NV base code that is undergoing validation testing now. I will released this firmware to a few beta users in the near future. It addresses random reboot/lock problems among a few other items. In addition, we are still working with NV and Google on code changes to address browser issues once multiple browsers are installed and Flash is not uninstalled and reinstalled again after a cold reboot.
5/9/2012 Update -
I have been out with pneumonia but will have messages forwarded to the Customer Care Team.
5/10/2012 Update -
I will provide test build 9.4.2.25.2 to a few power users tomorrow that addresses ANR problems identified with NVIDIA and Google. If this tests out fine, we will release as general beta to a wider group and then qualification release for users. Various browsers use different WebKit versions and thread priorities, which create some of the problems users with multiple browsers have been experiencing and even with other applications.
I got my refund from you guys (dock+ tablet+ shipping) thanks again! Hai trat was wonderful! Keep up the good work!
Don't let people discourage you!
Sent from my PG86100 using Tapatalk
Can you post a "procedure" or "guide" to obtaining full refund based on displeasure with GPS performance? Along with detailed information on who is "qualified" and who "isn't".
Gary Key said:
4. I will have some exciting news in about two weeks about the TF201.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exciting! After returning mine for a bright pixel and being tabletless for a month, I'm hoping... price break or updated hardware with bulletproof GPS, Wifi, Bluetooth, and no light bleed. Now that there are 2048 x 1536 resolution tablets out there for $499, the value proposition doesn't work as well as it did even if the TF201 didn't have the alleged level of errors people are stating.
Very good post Gary, it really does make a difference to my own personal view on Asus.
I very much doubt that any other manufacturer would put as much effort into backing their product.
Please keep visiting and putting various issues at ease, its what makes a big difference, although you will never keep everyone happy.
Very interested to see whats in store for us with future updates etc .. keep us posted.
P.S. I wish there was a UK based Rep on the forums too.
this is exciting news!
Thanks for the update and hopefully wifi/bt dropout will be fixed soon!
Thanks for getting me my refund Gary I cant wait to buy the next Asus tablet that comes along.
Can't wait to hear the "exciting news" about the TF201 in a couple of weeks. Except, now you have me getting all anxious again!
Good to see you guys really taking care of the issues and in contact with the users
Thanks for taking the time to come to the forums and put a face to Asus. Not many companies will reach out like that, and it's much appreciated. I know all you mainly hear are the negatives, so as a new prime owner as of yesterday, I can tell you thus far I'm very happy with the device.
Based on the level of community involvement and my brief experience with the device so far, I'd be more than comfortable recommending an Asus tablet to friends or family.
Thank you Gary, good on you!
but please get rid of your ugly
- https://discussions.apple.com/thread...art=0&tstart=0
in the signature. No insult buddy, but many people are allergic to apples. You might try dates or a link to figs, much sweeter...
We all agree on being happy not having to post in that thread and this link makes another great and exceptional statement little.
Give me a thanks and help me survive till the 17Th or so
Gary,
I have emailed a few times with requested info but never heard back. If I am doing something incorrectly, please let me know. I did hear from your friend in the repair center and he suggested waiting until parts come in. Unfortunately, I lost his name and email address. If you could send that, I would like to email him and now set up the return. I bought mine before GPS was removed from the specifications and was very disappointed to see that development as that is why I bought the Prime over the iPad 2.
Thanks for any info.
MBO
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using Tapatalk
Gary, thank you for the update.
I happened to have received an email from an someone outlining the steps at first and this was the first response:
Dear ,
Thank you for contacting ASUS and providing your feedback. I do apologize for your inconvenience. In the meantime I would suggest you to have it reset to the factory default by going to the 'settings' -> 'Backup & Reset' -> 'Factory data reset' (Please backup all of your personal data before this process) and please let me know if the problems still persist after this process. I'll be providing you with overnight shipping label to have the unit sent in for service. (Please provide shipping address for the process) You may also contact us at 888-678-3688 if you have any questions.
Thank you,
-Asus Tablet Team
I did as the email stated with no improvement. I then requested this.
Thank you for the offer, but I am going to send my Prime back to Amazon if I can't get a new fully tested unit from Asus directly. The reason being I don't feel I should have to wait for Asus to fix my new tablet I bought. I would consider keeping it if Asus was willing to ship me out a new unit so I don't have to wait for it to be fixed. If there is some way we can work this out so I don't have to go without a unit and one that has been fully tested that would mean the world to me, since I use it everyday.
I did the data reset and still the same issue. My Prime also has screen bleed, no GPS at all and washed out colors even when not in power saving mode.
Please help a loyal Asus customer.
Thank You
To which Asus responded
Hello,
We can only provide you a waranty service but if you are still within warranty with Amazon we recommend contacting them if this will be a faster process for you that will shorten the waiting time to have a unit.
Thank you,
Rodel L.
So I did exactly that, and boy am I glad I did. My new screen has saturated colors, wifi is about the same, I haven't tested the wifi/bluetooth experience yet.
Thanks for the update
Gary,
Thank you for coordinating the efforts to fix the problems and for all the communication with the forum members.
I pretty much gave up on the Prime because I need a strong WiFi performance and also need the WiFi to work simultaneously with BT. I also lost confidence on getting a Prime without bleeding since all 4 units I got had the problem. I returned my 4th prime and will wait for the Infinity. It will be a long wait but having the higher screen resolution is an added incentive.
We do have some unanswered questions about the Infinity that I was hoping to know the answers so I am not waiting for a product that would not meet my needs:
1) Will the WiFi work imultaneously with BT with no performance impact on either one, on the Infinity? I believe some users spotted on the FCC filing that this will not work on the TF300 so I am wondering about the Infinity?
2) Will the TF-201 docks be compatible and color matched with the Infinity? My dock is non returnable so I will need to sell it if that's not the case.
Thanks in advance.
Thanks for the updates, Gary.
The number one thing that will drive away my business is when companies are completely unwilling to engage their customers honestly. It's refreshing to see you guys take a different approach.
Asus' attention on these forums is also what made me take the plunge with the TF201 purchase even after reading all the alarms raised here. I can only encourage as much transparency as you can possibly provide, which I think helps quell some of the crazy bald speculations that some people try to pass off as facts around here.
For what it's worth, I think it's totally fair for Gary to point to the forums of *other* manufacturers. The "just works" myth is deeply ingrained in so many people's heads despite lots of evidence to the contrary. Noting that *all* products have some growing pains at launch injects a much needed dose of reality into the discussion.
(short story: I was frustrated with the WiFi signal on my Prime this morning and asked my wife if I could use her iPhone 4S to test throughput. I tried opening up speedtest, but the App Store was totally hung. I asked my wife about it and she said that problem happens often and can take hours to resolve itself.)
Thanks Gary, really appreciate the frank information. It is certainly eye opening to see the behavior of some members, though honestly not totally surprising.
I do have a question though, I have been searching high and low for an english-only dock in Canada, but even the CBIL units are hard to come by. I'm going on a large trip in April and was counting on having this dock in January or February, but now I'm starting to get nervous. When will Canada see the english docks in numbers where we can actually get them?
Thanks again.
I appreciate you taking the time to post this. Its good to have a voice to balance what on first site can seem like a lot of negative posts. I'm looking forward to the next two weeks.
Sent from my HTC Desire HD using XDA
After reading this post i'm officially an ASUS fanboy now. Thx gary, thx Asus.
All i can say:
<3<3<3
"I am not going to defend us 100% as like with all manufacturers we have areas of improvement. "
For me this is the difference between a good company and a great one. Making awesome products (the transformer prime is atm the best tablet in the world, yes even after ipad3 release) and still having the cojones/modesty to say they're not perfect and they try to improve.
Thats what i really dislike about those Apple guys. All you ever hear from them is "we are best best best". If you really look closly at it, they are not better than anyone. They just spend much more on advertising.
[e]
Techie2012 said:
1) Will the WiFi work imultaneously with BT with no performance impact on either one, on the Infinity? I believe some users spotted on the FCC filing that this will not work on the TF300 so I am wondering about the Infinity?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
BT will always have an impact on Wifi. Its radio signals, they interfere with each other. This issue is not unique to the prime. So if you turn on BT your wifi speed will be slowed down. It even happens on laptops.
I went through two units, before giving up. The first unit had reset issues even after .15 update but the GPS worked when outside (not for GPS use in a moving vehicle.) The second unit did not experience resets, but the GPS failed to work and the WiFi reception was poor at best. I really want to like the Prime, but until they produce a consistently error free products I am going to wait on the sidelines. What type of QA did ASUS do on this product prior to release(We obviously know at this time what they DIDN'T do, it went from Alpha Test to Manufacturing, and skipped the whole Beta Test thing)?
I appreciate all of your hard work, but ASUS really has a PR problem. Most of us on this site are advanced users, and or IT Professionals living on the bleeding edge, as such we (at least myself) have the ability to recommend products and services to our companies and friends( I field at least 20 calls a week from friends and family members seeking advise on tech purchases.)
I couldn't in good conscious recommend this product to a non-tech. individual with it current list of issues, mainly GPS(I know this feature has been removed from the list of specs, but almost every Android Tablet out has this feature, and this IS a premium product), weak WiFi Signals, and problems with WiFi/Bluetooth On at the same time. This is not a 1%, 9% but probably %99 issue with the currently released units.
Again, the average users will not know the difference or know what to look for, but this doesn't excuse the fact that the problem does exist. Most people didn't know the Ford Pinto would explode if it got hit from the rear, but Ford did, and while this is not a case of people getting injured or killed, but the result is the same, if a company knows that a product had a defect, i.e. the GPS you should fix the problem, not make the spec. magically disappear. The right thing to do is apologize, engineer a fix, swallow the expense and learn a lesson and move on, not sweep it under the rug and fix it on the next product released.
I would have a lot more respect for ASUS if they would have chosen the right way to fix the problem, not the least costly to the Share Holders.
I am not a fanboy of any company but tech itself, I like certain Android based products, I also like Apple products and Microsoft as well, I think competition is a good thing, and I enjoy using and learning about all Operating Systems and associated technologies, I would get awfully board being a Fanboy for a particular company (be it Microsoft, Apple or Google.)
One last point, I would also re-train you Technical Support Staff to NOT advise a customer that he can go online and purchase a replacement Power Supply on your Online Store, instead of going through the process of getting an RMA for the defective power supply (The USB Cap came loose and I would have to pull it by the cord to disconnect it, also if it was plugged in upside down I was getting shocked when touching the back of the Prime.) It would be one thing if I was outside my warranty period, but 7 days is another. The information for this is under: ASUS Service No=1701380; Rma No=USG7222490. I returned the unit because it was rebooting (as described above.)
thanks Gary for the updates. still waiting to hear back from a few messages I sent. I know you are swamped with messages. but thanks for starting this new thread and clearing up a majority of the rumours floating around. also for indirectly calling out the users who are trying to take advantage of a situation. I see them here on online and catch them in their lies. they always changing up their stories and brag about unneccessary details or claims. funny to see one or 2 of those people, take advantage of situation, posting in this thread...now that is classic.
I'm glad you cleared up the fix rumour. which always made sense and sounded very plausible.
Anxious to here what's this new exciting news you speak of concerning the Tf-201. I have some good hunches on what it might be but it'll be best to let you convey that instead of starting up new rumors n speculations.
looking forward to new .16 update. I figured we would be getting one soon.
Also, many people here on this forum think with you being Technical Marketing Manager, you are just here to do damage control and tell users anything, including lies or misleading info. I personally, and probably alot more users also, never got that impression from you or have seen evidence of that actually occurring. I for one am glad you came to help out on the forums. Regardless if it was voluntary or if after the the issues started popping up. it doesn't matter. what does matter is that Asus is showing that they are trying Tonto the extra mile and work with users on the issues. I know its not possible to help everyone else at once. that's why some may feel like you haven't addressed them fast enough. Sorting these issues out takes time. plus add in all the false reports, misleading info, and people trying to take advantage of situation and all that only delays things even more so.
I have never seen this kind of involvement from a device manufacturer before and its appreciated. it shows alot about how Asus cares about customer satisfaction and will try to uphold that value.
this new thread by you was needed. glad to see it finally surface. hopefully will make the trolls go away now that they know we on to their tactics...lmfao. As most of us should know who example 2a. is speaking of.. I never really believed him anyways. he got caught up in lies and still lying. lol if he smart he should just quietly vanish into the night. I love it, people getting put on blast. finally exposed!
In the past, CM has allowed users to opt out of sending their data. It's recently decided to remove the "optout feature" (c'mon, is that really a "feature"), forcing users to eat it.
http://www.androidpolice.com/2013/0...pting-out-of-cm-stats-cyanogen-says-to-chill/
"Cyanogenmod Will No Longer Allow Opting Out of CM Stats-- Cyanogen Says to Chill"
in response, i kindly made this argument:
"A fundamental issue still exists. If the data is collected via a unique identifier, and it has a timestamp, then it isn't as anonymized as people think. Anyone with a basic understanding of data security knows that. I think the uproar has to do with the reputation of the team as the protectors and defenders of our platform...you give us choice. But when we see behavior that doesn't add up, were naturally going to believe you've used that position in the community to do evil. We understand you want the the data.
What doesn't make sense, and the natural road for us all to go down:
1) is this being used to monetize CM?
2) installation data: to include location, language, device, build version, and carrier, are all things that can be identified using a single, static event report. Why should we be comfortable with an always-collecting, transmitting-in-the-background service? What's the use-case for this? You've said yourself that Google Play apps themselves often collect this data..why is that method insufficient for CM? And why should we have to expect the same from you guys as we do from everyone else. Surely there's a way to collect the necessary data you need with a scalpel, negating the need for a device drag-net like this.
In all seriousness, i trust CM to do the right thing...i just can't tell right now if they've done the lazy thing, and created a service which is omnipresent, omnipotent, running in the background and silently spying on me, just so CM can tell which language my device is running, my general location, my build information, etc.
That's fine, it's simple data, and it's fairly straight forward.
The question is, if you needed that data (which CM says it does), then why are you collecting a much, much more complicated data set, and why won't a simple installation report do? Why won't running for a short period of time...say, 5-7 days do?
Why did they take the Carrier IQ route?
Maybe they want it just so they can have it. As Koushik stated on the google plus post (where he does a great job at assuaging some fears, and creating others):
"---Did you know over half of our users are in China? They just passed the US in terms of CM installation base.
Call it ego surfing, but the data is incredibly useful."
So they're collecting all this data, without a need? It's obvious why it's extremely useful to understand, say....which language most of your users use, etc. But you don't need a 24/7 service to find out what language people use your device in.
Anyways, here's the Google + Post:
https://plus.google.com/103583939320326217147/posts/GwnzKJijBKj
Here, he has, however, provided a screenshot of your data in action, assuaging the fears of most (we never truly get to see what our data looks like after its sent through the mizteereeus pipez of the interwebz, magically transformed, and then spit back out to an analyst), and he even tells you a bit about what data it collects. What he doesn't say, is why on earth submitting the data once, after installation, in a single report wont do, or why a build report once a week, or however often, wont do.
That's the end of my tinfoil hat tirade. Like i said, i love CM, i trust them, but i'm disappointed. The reasons i listed above are arguments made to explain why people are raising hell because of this. I don't believe they'll do anything nefarious, and personally, they can ego=surf with my data all they want. It IS pretty cool. Maybe the move was a tad bit short-sighted though, because they may have gotten a bit out of touch with their users, and their users opinion of them-- and that's what my posts were supposed to do...they were supposed to bring the way I (and other's) think about them more in line with reality.
Edit: It's important to note that, as explained to us by CM, CM Statistics calls home upon reboot. Whether it runs all the time, or just for a nanosecond upon reboot, or 24/7 is important as well, but I'm unable to verify any of this, because my github skills are w34ks4uce. If we had a independent dev who could take a look at CM Stats and then explain exactly (key word) what it was collecting, that'd be über helpful....but it wouldn't mean anything in the long run. Because I was viewing the macroscopic effects of the decision. A comprehensive announcement and explanation wold probably have been prescient, because the information contained in the Google+ post is just as key as the announcement itself-- the stigma of collecting data is far to strong to just say one day-- "sneaky, sneaky--no more opting out".
Nothing has changed here, only the fact that it's enabled by default vs opt-out. The dataset hasn't changed.
Don't use it if you don't like it. They are not spying on you. WITHOUT stats they would have zero visibility to what is actually used. Download data is trash compared to actual usage.
And what if they decide they want to improve Language X translations, but only 10 people use it? Worth it? Or what about Device Y that only a handful of people are still clinging onto? Resources can be used in better ways.
I knew I'd see a post crying about this eventually...
If this thread turns into a flame fest it will be locked
As for data collection...you are using Android right?
Also check the permissions to all those third party apps.
Thanks in advance for keeping this thread civil or ignoring it.
Friendly Neighborhood Moderator
I take my privacy seriously, as I'm sure most of us do. As mentioned previously market apps gain a certain amount of info from us.
Maybe CM should have a free version with no opt out or a pay version with one (key maybe). That should make everyone happy.
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khaytsus said:
Nothing has changed here, only the fact that it's enabled by default vs opt-out. The dataset hasn't changed.
Don't use it if you don't like it. They are not spying on you. WITHOUT stats they would have zero visibility to what is actually used. Download data is trash compared to actual usage.
And what if they decide they want to improve Language X translations, but only 10 people use it? Worth it? Or what about Device Y that only a handful of people are still clinging onto? Resources can be used in better ways.
I knew I'd see a post crying about this eventually...
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Click to collapse
This.
Whoooooooo caaaares delete thread
RoOt-[]D [] []V[] []D-BeEr
Solution to all this: OpenPDroid
briand.mooreg said:
I take my privacy seriously, as I'm sure most of us do. As mentioned previously market apps gain a certain amount of info from us.
Maybe CM should have a free version with no opt out or a pay version with one (key maybe). That should make everyone happy.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think this is a brilliant idea, regardless of the status of CM Stats. A paid version with a extra feature set would be awesome.
As far as the argument for data like language, region, build, etc. I think we can say conclusively that this could be handled by a installation report, that runs once after installation or upgrade.
The type of data they need doesn't neccesitate a background service, which is why its naturally suspicious.
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btswein said:
This.
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I though is was enabled by default. Is this something the devs choose? Upon installation, i see a "cm statistics is running" banner in notification. Even so, what's changing, is their removing opt out all together.
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http://review.cyanogenmod.org/#/c/35047/
well there you have it:
Commit MessagePermalink
Restore the opt-out for stats.
* Apparently this is a bigger issue for a small number of extremely
vocal users. We should respect their wishes, no matter how off-base
their claims are in this context.
Change-Id: I9eef9a65260ec4e360d398f80d610a198c09c915
Thanks to: khaytsus
for posting the link
khaytsus said:
http://review.cyanogenmod.org/#/c/35047/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is there a way we can educate/frame a conversation around how to do this in a way accepting of the vocal crowd? Perhaps an outreach campaign, minimal in effort that might encourage more users to opt in? This is an area where fundamental good can be done. The same people who've been vocal should have no problem explaining what would get them to opt in.
I think this whole thing might have been a brief thing, but if the statistics really help the project, we can all have our cake and eat it too.
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khaytsus said:
I knew I'd see a post crying about this eventually...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You knew you'd see a post crying about this because of all that data your collecting told you lol!
Just teasin!
I would have just frozen the background service. ...
We rooty types can do that sort of thing now days. ..
And just to prevent the assumption that I missed the point of the OP. ...I didn't, and can only imagine the amount of target data our carriers pull by simply using our device. (See lengthy contract and service agreement of your carrier)...
CM data is small potatoes by comparison. ..and while quite useful to them in the generation of custom firmwares, it's a useless data source for us.
I've freely given cyanogen my data for years. And in return Steve has given me high quality work for my trouble. .....privacy concerns accepted. ....g
The easiest way to prevent CM from getting any data from you is too not install, not really that hard to figure out.
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