Related
http://phandroid.com/2010/10/05/skype-for-android-now-available-worldwide/
Edit
that's right, is doesn't work on the Vibrant.
guess what it does not work on vibrant 2.1
amorek13 said:
guess what it does not work on vibrant 2.1
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Click to collapse
It appears that it doesn't work on any galaxy s phone..
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
It's a POS app
no Video calling
no group calling
They waited this long to release this Garbage?
Fring was doing an excellent job, until Skype shut them down.
UGH SKYPE is a POS company
Galaxy S owners get the shaft ... yet again! Maybe we should just recognize the fact that AT&T/iPhone 4 is the best game in town and quit trying to play catch up.
There is a GPS fix that allows it to work excellent. Get over it.
dcchristopher said:
Well, at least we all now know a little more about the two of you. I don't blame you entirely for your disgraceful behavior. Surely your upbringing had a lot to do with it.
I don't see how what I said was inflammatory but perhaps it was misperceived. Allow me to explain: I paid $500 for this device. I honestly don't even need the phone aspect of it. I just need it to access the internet (email, web, etc), then as a media player, and then occasionally as a GPS device. The calling capabilities are literally icing on the cake. Let's just skip the whole GPS part since that needs no introduction. It simply doesn't work (unless you consider your location jumping around every 10 seconds "working" ... yeah, what fun it is to be hearing erroneous directions from your GPS device). T-mobile's voice and data services have been quite paltry in my experience. Calls drop quite often and that's something many Tmo subscribers complain about, especially near downtown and on a NexusOne. Moreover, data takes FOREVER to connect. I could be getting 4mbps/2mbps one second, then 750k/300k the next, then incessant data connection attempts with no data being transmitted ... until I reboot my phone. WTF??? A month ago I was driving from Dallas to San Antonio and got nothing but Edge the whole way down ... all along an interstate highway (albeit one of the worst I've ever seen) ... the phone was even occasionally switching to "G" and it took me forever to remember what that stood for ... GPRS!!! I haven't seen that since the 90s.
If you guys think it is acceptable to get ripped off like that, for hardware and services, by all means continue condoning and promoting Tmo and Sammy's failures and inaction by rewarding them for all that. These phones went on sale 7/15, around the same time Tmo announced their HSPA+ network. Three months later, you expect at least "an" action. No credits, no buy-backs, no remedies ... only failed promises. If you bought a car that couldn't perform as advertised and spec'd, I'm sure you would act differently.
But ... judging from your comments above, you guys are entirely worthy of your fate.
Best,
DCC
P.S. I dislike Apple fanboys just as much as the next guy but at some point we all need to man up to the facts ... the iPhone has the best user experience ... and Windows Phone 7 offers the best development experience (trust me, I have written/am writing apps for all three). The only thing positive about Android in my opinion is the tight integration of all the Google apps and services ... which oddly are not favored by many Android fans on this site ... in addition, they are increasingly being integrated in the other platforms as well (albeit not fast enough). Again, why Android? If it's because you want to be this decade's equivalent of the 90s' Linux geek who spends all day customizing the OS and the environment instead of actually using it and putting to good use, then have fun! Don't feel bad ... most people do not learn from history's lessons either!
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Click to collapse
Believe me I hear you, but you make your case weak. Individual experience differs from Joe to Jane.
The biggest advantage of Android over the other's is the hardware support for every major mobile manufacturer.
And Windows Mobile 7? We will see how the numbers look by the Xmas.
Yes, I am a linux geek, but I didn't purchase my phone because I am one.
As for the OP, Skype went downhill once they went to bed with the big red.
So why do you have a tmo vibrant? Why not get an i*hone? There are pros and cons to any device and any carrier...
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
lqaddict said:
Believe me I hear you, but you make your case weak. Individual experience differs from Joe to Jane.
The biggest advantage of Android over the other's is the hardware support for every major mobile manufacturer.
And Windows Mobile 7? We will see how the numbers look by the Xmas.
Yes, I am a linux geek, but I didn't purchase my phone because I am one.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I really wanted Android to succeed but it hasn't and I'm not necessarily blaming Android itself. I just don't see how I can choose it when the hardware and carrier are dropping the ball. All three (OS, hardware, carrier) are part and parcel. "Hardware support" is not enough when the hardware itself is not cutting it. First the Hero had build quality and connectivity issues, now the Vibrant has an elusive Froyo build and major GPS issues (in response to a previous post, I have yet to see a truly working "fix" and I have installed most if not all of them ... whoever claims it's now perfectly working is smoking something he/she should share with the rest of us).
Thank you for keeping an open mind and I do agree with you that individual experiences will vary but let's agree that this forum is proof that there are major unaddressed problems with this phone.
junkdruggler said:
So why do you have a tmo vibrant? Why not get an i*hone? There are pros and cons to any device and any carrier...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you for applying intelligence and not resorting to childish name-calling ... simply put, I left AT&T after a decade of being their customer because my non-iPhone superphones (usually purchased from abroad but compatible with US 3G) were being intentionally disregarded by their network in favor of the iPhone devices out there ... $110 a month for a discriminating data service is not acceptable. iPhones are also a little "too user-friendly" for me. I preferred a more open platform. At this point though, I will settle for a device that "just works". That is what every iPhone user will tell you out there ... the s*** just works. A phone is something that should enable you to do things with it, whether it's productivity, app development, multimedia, services, etc. A phone is not a perpetual hack factory, at least not as a primary device. If people want a side project to play with, great. What I have seen on this forum though is that most people need a phone that works for them, not the other way around.
I am waiting for the first generation WP7 phones to roll out and see what drama will ensue, if any. As you very astutely stated, "there are pros and cons to any device and any carrier". I really enjoy the WP7 mobile app development environment and so long as the phones are not involved in yet another fiasco, I will most likely get one. If not, the iPhone it is.
I'm not trolling and I do not mean to offend hard-core Linux super-users/developers but this business of shoddy phones, shoddy service and endless "hacking" is not right when we're all paying 50-100 a month for service and 200-500 for devices. I am surprised that people are not up in arms about it. There really needs to be a class-action lawsuit over this. I know, a handful of lawyers will just make a shipload of money. Still, companies cannot get away with this sort of negligence. This isn't the first time and it sure as heck won't be the last.
Vote with your dollars and best luck to you,
DCC
If browse over the iphone forums you will see the plethora of posts complaining about this and that on the iphone too.
There is no magic cookie cater for anything, you will always find something to be not up to your standards.
What confuses me the most is people complaining about the features that are not being the prime in the market cliché they are shopping - for instance, neither Android nor iOS are good examples of the enterprise use, but people still insist that my phone does not integrate well with my corporate Exchange environment the way I *want* hence the product sucks.
Everything has its pluses and minuses, it's up to an individual to weigh in the pros and cons to make a conscious buying decision.
lqaddict said:
If browse over the iphone forums you will see the plethora of posts complaining about this and that on the iphone too.
There is no magic cookie cater for anything, you will always find something to be not up to your standards.
What confuses me the most is people complaining about the features that are not being the prime in the market cliché they are shopping - for instance, neither Android nor iOS are good examples of the enterprise use, but people still insist that my phone does not integrate well with my corporate Exchange environment the way I *want* hence the product sucks.
Everything has its pluses and minuses, it's up to an individual to weigh in the pros and cons to make a conscious buying decision.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I really want to say "I hear ya" but here's the deal ...
a) I glanced over the iPhone fora and I am not seeing anything glaring ... mostly basic user ignorance (configuration / customization issues)
b) all the iPhone users I have asked what their biggest complaint is about their phone give me the same "huh?" look ... their phone just works
c) all the major issues with iPhone 4 were addressed with some sort of fix or another, even if all it took was a rubber band ... I have friends who exchanged their phone well after the 30 days because of the proximity sensor issue (just as an example) ... clearly, Apple took ownership of resolving the deal-breaking issues
When I walked into a T-mobile store after the first 30 days and said "I will not put up with this GPS BS" they kindly restated their return policy, gave me Samsung's support number and sent me on my not-so-merry way. When I contacted Samsung, I was told to simply wait for the update as there was no fix for it so a replacement wouldn't accomplish anything. The customer service rep literally laughed when I mentioned a return of the product for refund.
You're absolutely right ... there will always be issues but this isn't a matter of preference or individual taste ... these companies are failing to deliver what they promised and what we have paid for and rightfully deserve. I am in no way saying that the iPhone is perfect; I'm sure I would have something to complain about from time to time ... but when I borrow friends' phones to "play" with, the iPhone is fast and responsive and hasn't failed me once. Load SpeedTest side-by-side. The "Begin Test" button lights up literally instantly. I know the Galaxy S phones have the same hardware. Why is it they can't be as responsive?
As I previously mentioned, I was with AT&T (or one of the companies it acquired or merged with) for over a decade until the Hero came out and I switched to Sprint. Then I went to T-mobile for the Vibrant. I will just make my rounds until I find something that works. My problem is that I get way too overexcited about the technology and jump ship before it has had a chance to prove itself. Right now the iPhone 4 has proved itself fairly well. As I said though, as a mobile apps developer, I really want WP7 to work out so I will _try_ to wait and see. The development experience is "magnifique!"
Best,
DCC
It's really disheartening to see android sinking like this because if googles ignorant attitude. I agree with you, if google woukd be a bit more proactive like Apple or Microsoft (now that they revamped) and set a standard for the OS requirement, quality control. We can all breath better. I have a bad feeling that once wm7 hit, Android will be the new WM6.5, a cheap buggy and unorganized akternative for manuftre and carriers.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
PaiPiePia said:
It's really disheartening to see android sinking like this because if googles ignorant attitude. I agree with you, if google woukd be a bit more proactive like Apple or Microsoft (now that they revamped) and set a standard for the OS requirement, quality control. We can all breath better. I have a bad feeling that once wm7 hit, Android will be the new WM6.5, a cheap buggy and unorganized akternative for manuftre and carriers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you for chiming in. Hopefully Android will survive, even if only because competition is a good thing. I think most of the issues faced today (so-called fragmentation, etc) will be resolved in the re-architecture being introduced in Android 3.0. I'm more concerned about the carriers and hardware manufacturers closing up shop after a phone has been released and only looking forward to the next model. What good is it if Android survives and succeeds if I am the one left holding the dud? "Oh, just pay another two to five hundred dollars." The worst part is that the user/owner community turns a blind eye to the egregious failures in the name of fandom. That is NOT the way to organize and effect change.
dcchristopher said:
I really want to say "I hear ya" but here's the deal ...
a) I glanced over the iPhone fora and I am not seeing anything glaring ... mostly basic user ignorance (configuration / customization issues)
b) all the iPhone users I have asked what their biggest complaint is about their phone give me the same "huh?" look ... their phone just works
c) all the major issues with iPhone 4 were addressed with some sort of fix or another, even if all it took was a rubber band ... I have friends who exchanged their phone well after the 30 days because of the proximity sensor issue (just as an example) ... clearly, Apple took ownership of resolving the deal-breaking issues
When I walked into a T-mobile store after the first 30 days and said "I will not put up with this GPS BS" they kindly restated their return policy, gave me Samsung's support number and sent me on my not-so-merry way. When I contacted Samsung, I was told to simply wait for the update as there was no fix for it so a replacement wouldn't accomplish anything. The customer service rep literally laughed when I mentioned a return of the product for refund.
You're absolutely right ... there will always be issues but this isn't a matter of preference or individual taste ... these companies are failing to deliver what they promised and what we have paid for and rightfully deserve. I am in no way saying that the iPhone is perfect; I'm sure I would have something to complain about from time to time ... but when I borrow friends' phones to "play" with, the iPhone is fast and responsive and hasn't failed me once. Load SpeedTest side-by-side. The "Begin Test" button lights up literally instantly. I know the Galaxy S phones have the same hardware. Why is it they can't be as responsive?
As I previously mentioned, I was with AT&T (or one of the companies it acquired or merged with) for over a decade until the Hero came out and I switched to Sprint. Then I went to T-mobile for the Vibrant. I will just make my rounds until I find something that works. My problem is that I get way too overexcited about the technology and jump ship before it has had a chance to prove itself. Right now the iPhone 4 has proved itself fairly well. As I said though, as a mobile apps developer, I really want WP7 to work out so I will _try_ to wait and see. The development experience is "magnifique!"
Best,
DCC
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I guess I went to the apple forums before the proximity sensor issues were resolved, and it was Vibrant GPS Redux over there.
I am glad that Apple took care of the problem after a few updates to their iOS, but as with the GPS issues on our phones the proximity sensor should've been caught during the QA, I am not gonna say anything about Antennagate.
Hopefully GPS will be patched for good on the Vibrant too, and no I do not need the proof that it is addressed with the latest update - faster locks does not mean accuracy.
scrizz said:
Fring was doing an excellent job, until Skype shut them down.
UGH SKYPE is a POS company
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Its those bloody Iphone Users that were clogging up the servers using Fring that caused fring to gett banned from skype
cdill3000 said:
Its those bloody Iphone Users that were clogging up the servers using Fring that caused fring to gett banned from skype
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Click to collapse
Don't let Skype off the hook though ... I used to be a big fan of theirs but they've been very slow with delivering platform-specific clients and they seem to be playing favorites and such. Closing the door on fring, a very, very open solution out there, was a deplorable thing to do.
It doesn't matter folks ... when Google comes out with their VOIP service, and you KNOW they will (Gizmo5 acquisition, etc), all these other (dis-)services will be obliterated. I predict Google will establish its own data-only cell carrier (cause data is all you need anyway) ... hopefully within the next 2-3 years.
I know this thread kinda derailed off topic, but imma put my two cents in.
I do kinda agree with DCC, at my workplace pretty much everyone has some sort of smart phone. When the subject of phones comes up, I am the first one to bang my chest and yell ANDROID~!
But the sad truth is, iphone users like the iphone because IT DOES WHAT THEY NEED IT TO DO. they really dont care about all the stuff we have come to love about android.
So they are happy and content, while we are up till the wee hrs of the morning trying to make our phones have a milli-second faster lol.
And to me its not really trying to make our phones better than the iphone, its me just making my phone better than it was.
I am disappointed in samsung about the lag issue and the gps issue.
I dont complain about it though, cause we are all here at this website to make our phones better than it is from stock. and I am 100 percent sure , once its said and done, this phone will more than satisfy me.
As far as I've read, Fring violated Skype's API and when they were challenged Fring, instead of changing their code, resolved to drop Skype support altogether. It's basically Fring's fault for not playing according to the rules. Fring issued a statement saying that Skype blocked them. It's an unlikely story since Skype has a fairly open API and would be leaving itself open to lawsuit if they did so.
blogs.skype.com/en/2010/07/fring.html
Where are you guys reading or hearing these things from?
cashless said:
As far as I've read, Fring violated Skype's API and when they were challenged Fring, instead of changing their code, resolved to drop Skype support altogether. It's basically Fring's fault for not playing according to the rules. Fring issued a statement saying that Skype blocked them. It's an unlikely story since Skype has a fairly open API and would be leaving itself open to lawsuit if they did so.
blogs.skype.com/en/2010/07/fring.html
Where are you guys reading or hearing these things from?
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Click to collapse
Umm, definitely NOT from either side's highly partial blog, that's for sure ... which, by the way, you are misquoting. Fring did not drop Skype support all together. They temporarily disabled video calls because Skype and the carriers were *****ing about it (due to the excessive load on their networks). Then they were suddenly blocked from routing connections through Skype. This is an obvious behind-closed-doors ganging up of Skype+carrier(s) against Fring who stands alone and is one of the most open companies out there.
I get it, no one here really knows what happened when and why but ... Skype is no victim. On the other hand, the Objectivist in me says Skype should have every right to deny Fring (or any individual, company or group in the world) access to their systems. I just wish they would come out and say it instead of being all sly about it.
dcchristopher said:
Umm, definitely NOT from either side's highly partial blog, that's for sure ... which, by the way, you are misquoting. Fring did not drop Skype support all together. They temporarily disabled video calls because Skype and the carriers were *****ing about it (due to the excessive load on their networks). Then they were suddenly blocked from routing connections through Skype. This is an obvious behind-closed-doors ganging up of Skype+carrier(s) against Fring who stands alone and is one of the most open companies out there.
I get it, no one here really knows what happened when and why but ... Skype is no victim. On the other hand, the Objectivist in me says Skype should have every right to deny Fring (or any individual, company or group in the world) access to their systems. I just wish they would come out and say it instead of being all sly about it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Saying that a company violated API publicly when they didn't is libel.
Just answer the question, your smugness, where did you get your info (especially seeing as you're stating that it's an obvious behind-closed-doors ganging up of Skype+carrier(s) against Fring. I guess you're one of these people behind these closed doors?
Lemme get your "jump to conclusions" board for you.
I'm Just wondering since we have 2.2 now, do you think that we enjoy using our phones more because we have 2.2/2.3 or do you think its was overhyped because of the frequent updates of other companies? Personally I believe I enjoy my x10 more since the mods came out and i like the fact that there are more apps available to me and I think its nice to have the Gallery app as a default. Also the JIT compiler is nice to improve the speed of the device but maybe we overhyped the benefit of 2.2.
What do you guys think?
not really... bugged DT, no 16m collors, no official froyo with everything working, 30FPS limit.... it's my fault i bought this phone because of it's good looks before i read about it...
2.2 is definitely an upgrade, spending 10 months on a phone that can't browse properly after my 2 year old n95 had Flash was very frustrating, although I have it installed I still think dueltouch is a nice feature but very overrated, don't care much for 16m colours but in retrospect the X10 wil be my last SE phone for the simple reason that they didn't keep there promises.
Sent from my X10i using XDA App
to be fair though we got dual touch and flash support now, x10 currently quite laggy in custom froyo, not sure whether it's hardware related or tweaking. it's not comparable with other high end device.
Sent from my X10i using XDA App
Leonidas300 said:
2.2 is definitely an upgrade, spending 10 months on a phone that can't browse properly after my 2 year old n95 had Flash was very frustrating, although I have it installed I still think dueltouch is a nice feature but very overrated, don't care much for 16m colours but in retrospect the X10 wil be my last SE phone for the simple reason that they didn't keep there promises.
Sent from my X10i using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What promise did they break? None that I know of, and they gave us dualtouch after selling this phone as incapable due to hardware. They only said update to 2.1. Misinformation like this is what is causing all this ill-will for SE.
Sent from my X10a using XDA App
They may not have broken a promise but they fail to adhere to standards we have come to expect from devices of the same type. Theres no real excuse. Sony should have stepped up there game to put them in a good light. Now people will be hesitant to buy an se phone if they have so many short comings. I feel that 2.2 brought a lot of key features which made me enjoy my phone much more
Sent from my X10i using XDA App
arj154 said:
They may not have broken a promise but they fail to adhere to standards we have come to expect from devices of the same type. Theres no real excuse. Sony should have stepped up there game to put them in a good light. Now people will be hesitant to buy an se phone if they have so many short comings. I feel that 2.2 brought a lot of key features which made me enjoy my phone much more
Sent from my X10i using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Again, Misinformation! Failed to adhere to standards... blah blah blah? Android and smartphones are a new developing technology, and what is standard in this type of industry is here today gone tomorrow. SE is still developing this device, and will continue to do so on 2.1. We have had 4 recent updates with more coming. SE's mistake was being honest and open about their intentions before they realistically needed to. We just got 2.1 in November.
Pretending now that having the latest OS is expected for the X10, when we all bought this phone knowing it came with outdated 1.6 is ridiculous. It boggles my mind. What universe do live in?
Sent from my X10a using XDA App
16m colors was a promise..
Anyway i don't even care about official updates, se's version of android sucks in my opinion.
I'm quite happy with freex10. If it want for the devs on here with custom ROMs i would probably hate my phone..
agentJBM said:
Again, Misinformation! Failed to adhere to standards... blah blah blah? Android and smartphones are a new developing technology, and what is standard in this type of industry is here today gone tomorrow. SE is still developing this device, and will continue to do so on 2.1. We have had 4 recent updates with more coming. SE's mistake was being honest and open about their intentions before they realistically needed to. We just got 2.1 in November.
Pretending now that having the latest OS is expected for the X10, when we all bought this phone knowing it came with outdated 1.6 is ridiculous. It boggles my mind. What universe do live in?
Sent from my X10a using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I fully understand that technology is developing rapidly specialy in the mobile phone game believe me and i think you fail to understand what i mean by standards. I mean standards as in the ones set by other manufacturers. Take the HTC desire for example. 2.2 wasnt out when it was launched however they updated it to 2.2 when it was available. HTC have changed the android device quite heavily with there senses UI yet they were still able to produce a 2.2 update for the phone.
I understand you may be angry at the moaners who say it should be updated to 2.3 or it should be updated as soon as the source code for 2.x is released. You've got to understand that we have bought a device which is capable of running a newer OS but SE haven't implemented a newer version.
Yes props to them for getting dual touch working but it seems like they havent fully gotten up to the standards of other manufacturers and they should try to do this otherwise they will fall behind.
When people like us buy a phone, we look to see if its going to be up to date in a year. The x10 is failing to get up to date in 6 months and its already being put on the sidelines. Yes sony are releasing updates but they seem to be too fragmented. The 2.1 update didnt have exchange, 16mil colours etc these features should've been included from the start.
arj154 said:
I fully understand that technology is developing rapidly specialy in the mobile phone game believe me and i think you fail to understand what i mean by standards. I mean standards as in the ones set by other manufacturers. Take the HTC desire for example. 2.2 wasnt out when it was launched however they updated it to 2.2 when it was available. HTC have changed the android device quite heavily with there senses UI yet they were still able to produce a 2.2 update for the phone.
I understand you may be angry at the moaners who say it should be updated to 2.3 or it should be updated as soon as the source code for 2.x is released. You've got to understand that we have bought a device which is capable of running a newer OS but SE haven't implemented a newer version.
Yes props to them for getting dual touch working but it seems like they havent fully gotten up to the standards of other manufacturers and they should try to do this otherwise they will fall behind.
When people like us buy a phone, we look to see if its going to be up to date in a year. The x10 is failing to get up to date in 6 months and its already being put on the sidelines. Yes sony are releasing updates but they seem to be too fragmented. The 2.1 update didnt have exchange, 16mil colours etc these features should've been included from the start.
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Click to collapse
You expect too much, that's your problem. Say if you buy something today, are you expecting it to be updated? Like your car for example? Or Windows 7? You have to buy a new one...
Don't expect anything. Buy it, if you like it. Buy a new one, if you want a better model. Always works that way. You always have a choice...
roaringhere said:
You expect too much, that's your problem. Say if you buy something today, are you expecting it to be updated? Like your car for example? Or Windows 7? You have to buy a new one...
Don't expect anything. Buy it, if you like it. Buy a new one, if you want a better model. Always works that way. You always have a choice...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Im sorry but I completely disagree. Companies like Sony should be pressured into competing with other manufacturers and I think your car example isnt relevant. If the car was capped at 40mph when it could do 120mph then it may be applicable or if a new computer came with windows 98.
If we didnt have any expectations then the market wouldnt move forward. Smartphones would be a stagnated market and there would be no competition. These standards drive competition and I'm not crazy for having them and I'm sure many people on this forum feel the same way.
You may think I'm expecting too much but all I want is for sony to keep up with other manufacturers and ensure that the phone reaches its full potential. If I had a phone which was half the power of the x10 e.g. 512mhz processor, 128mb RAM etc then I would be happy with 2.1 and a number of updates to optimise the phone. I would accept that its not capable and wait until i can afford an upgrade but this isnt the case. We know the x10 is capable of running 2.2 and it brings too many benifits for sony to ignore.
I see that your quite a stubborn person and you seem to be quite happy with sony trickling out updates as theyve done with all there phones. I know you probably havent read or fully taken in what I've said so please can you just let this go so the thread can get back on topic? I dont want to continue this argument as it seems youre too stubborn to talk to. I've repeated myself a number of times on this thread and I stand by my views that Sony should keep up with every other manufacturer.
roaringhere said:
You expect too much, that's your problem. Say if you buy something today, are you expecting it to be updated? Like your car for example? Or Windows 7? You have to buy a new one...
Don't expect anything. Buy it, if you like it. Buy a new one, if you want a better model. Always works that way. You always have a choice...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And by your logic manufacturers will always be free to screw their customers over just because for the past few years it's become the norm for them to release and shortly after, forget their handphones. And the x10 isn't even old. Android has changed the game. HTC gets it.
Is it unreasonable to expect Froyo on a device that by CURRENT standards, is still very competitively specd? And who cares if SE never promised Froyo for the first gen Android Xperias? We've got Froyo running thanks to some awesome devs here at xda, and the bootloader cracking is an ongoing project. There is still so much to do. So just sit back and watch.
To me, 2.2 is a significant upgrade. I know that SE plans to update the x10 but with improvements to 2.1 only. Thats fine, and props to SE for the support. But 2.2 is what this device really needs.
The X10 hardware is very crap..
So in my opinion SE can shove it.
2.3, 2.5, 3.0 won't fix the hardware..
arj154 said:
Im sorry but I completely disagree. Companies like Sony should be pressured into competing with other manufacturers and I think your car example isnt relevant. If the car was capped at 40mph when it could do 120mph then it may be applicable or if a new computer came with windows 98.
If we didnt have any expectations then the market wouldnt move forward. Smartphones would be a stagnated market and there would be no competition. These standards drive competition and I'm not crazy for having them and I'm sure many people on this forum feel the same way.
You may think I'm expecting too much but all I want is for sony to keep up with other manufacturers and ensure that the phone reaches its full potential. If I had a phone which was half the power of the x10 e.g. 512mhz processor, 128mb RAM etc then I would be happy with 2.1 and a number of updates to optimise the phone. I would accept that its not capable and wait until i can afford an upgrade but this isnt the case. We know the x10 is capable of running 2.2 and it brings too many benifits for sony to ignore.
I see that your quite a stubborn person and you seem to be quite happy with sony trickling out updates as theyve done with all there phones. I know you probably havent read or fully taken in what I've said so please can you just let this go so the thread can get back on topic? I dont want to continue this argument as it seems youre too stubborn to talk to. I've repeated myself a number of times on this thread and I stand by my views that Sony should keep up with every other manufacturer.
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Click to collapse
No, smartphones would be a dead market if every phone got free updates for as long as the customers felt entitled, and no one ever had to buy another phone. Thereby stagnating growth. The more phones they sell, the faster this technology will develop. The great thing is its users can pick up where the manufacturers leave off.
Did you buy a service contact with this device? No, that is what is standard with companies that offer continual support. This product has a life of approx two years. It's a disposable product, and not meant to be used longterm.
I think one reason for there is such a disconnect is because younger and younger people are using technology. While they can use the device better than their elders, they are not wise in the ways of how things work in the real world. Life isn't fair, and nothing is free. This is the first product in modern history that I can think of that gets free updates and upgrades. You're going to be extremely disappointed if you think this is how business works.
Even HTC has issues their users aren't happy with, and HTC is owned by Google who created Android, so current OS is to be expected. Like fruit and iPhone. SE isn't selling their own OS.
Sent from my X10a using XDA App
Error. Please delete.
agentJBM said:
No, smartphones would be a dead market if every phone got free updates for as long as the customers felt entitled, and no one ever had to buy another phone. Thereby stagnating growth. The more phones they sell, the faster this technology will develop. The great thing is its users can pick up where the manufacturers leave off.
Did you buy a service contact with this device? No, that is what is standard with companies that offer continual support. This product has a life of approx two years. It's a disposable product, and not meant to be used longterm.
I think one reason for there is such a disconnect is because younger and younger people are using technology. While they can use the device better than their elders, they are not wise in the ways of how things work in the real world. Life isn't fair, and nothing is free. This is the first product in modern history that I can think of that gets free updates and upgrades. You're going to be extremely disappointed if you think this is how business works. Even HTC has issues their users aren't happy with, and HTC isn't going to fix. Google who created Android also owns HTC, so more is to be expected. Like fruit and iPhone.
Sent from my X10a using XDA App
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omg your incredibly ignorant and your clearly not reading what im saying. Im not expecting free updates forever. Im just expecting them to upgrade it to 2.2. Also did HTC abondon the HTC desire at 2.1? no they upgraded it to 2.2. I completely agree that its not economical to provide updates for free all the time.
You've got to move with the times too. We will demand updates, android is the platform which will push manufactures to develop phones with the current version of android.
I would gladly pay for an upgrade if it came to that, so its not an issue of money. Its about brand reliability, a lot of phone manufacturers rely on this. I have heard from so many family members who have owned sony erricson feature phones that have been put off by there software so its also the issue of the quality of there products.
You seem to thinks its fine just to stand by and let a company give you a faulty product. I mean if you got a burger which was completely undercooked and was not the way you expect it to be then you would complain. Its the same principle here.
You have a very jaded outlook on life it seems, i mean if you listen to the latest podcast of windows weekly, even paul thurrot has the same problems with windows phone 7 where micrsoft arent releasing updates fast enough to keep up with the competition. (and btw im pretty sure he's just over 40 so its not a generational gap).
In an ever critical industry that is technology, companies need to keep good brand reliability to keep on top of things.
Froyo provided the following benefits over Eclair:
- JIT compiler
- V8 javascript engine
- OpenGL ES 2.0
- App2SD
- USB tethering
- Wifi hotspot
- Bluetooth voice dialing
- MS Exchange support
- access to Adobe Flash 10.1
- access to Adobe Air
Seeing as how the first three provide significant speed boosts (we're seeing greater than 100% performance gains on 2.2 vs. 2.1 with JIT enabled), they alone are worth it. App2SD is pretty important as well, as SE saddled us with pretty measly app storage (especially when their custom apps are taken into account).
Now from what I can see, Gingerbread is less of an upgrade from Froyo (at least for the X10). But then SE hasn't given us Froyo.
arj154 said:
omg your incredibly ignorant and your clearly not reading what im saying. Im not expecting free updates forever. Im just expecting them to upgrade it to 2.2. Also did HTC abondon the HTC desire at 2.1? no they upgraded it to 2.2. I completely agree that its not economical to provide updates for free all the time.
You've got to move with the times too. We will demand updates, android is the platform which will push manufactures to develop phones with the current version of android.
I would gladly pay for an upgrade if it came to that, so its not an issue of money. Its about brand reliability, a lot of phone manufacturers rely on this. I have heard from so many family members who have owned sony erricson feature phones that have been put off by there software so its also the issue of the quality of there products.
You seem to thinks its fine just to stand by and let a company give you a faulty product. I mean if you got a burger which was completely undercooked and was not the way you expect it to be then you would complain. Its the same principle here.
You have a very jaded outlook on life it seems, i mean if you listen to the latest podcast of windows weekly, even paul thurrot has the same problems with windows phone 7 where micrsoft arent releasing updates fast enough to keep up with the competition. (and btw im pretty sure he's just over 40 so its not a generational gap).
In an ever critical industry that is technology, companies need to keep good brand reliability to keep on top of things.
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Click to collapse
Me ignorant? Your the one who bought the device with the oldest OS, and are expecting it to suddenly be running the latest. You assumed to the point of feeling entitled to additional OS updates beyond what the specs for the device clearly stated, 2.1. You know what they say about assuming? It makes an ass out of u and me.
Yes it would be nice for additional updates, and maybe even expected if additional development didn't have to be done to make it work on the x10, but you are overestimating the number of people who feel jaded. We, in the forums, are a small percent, and the number who feel ripped off like you is only a portion of that.
The grass isn't always greener on the other side. Every product has unsatisfied customers. If not we'd all be buying the same device. The Xperia was never marketed as having the latest Android OS. It had great hardware like 8 mega pixel camera and 1 GHz processor. If you wanted the latest OS, you should have bought HTC, the device of the Android developer Google.
Sent from my X10a using XDA App
agentJBM said:
Me ignorant? Your the one who bought the device with the oldest OS, and are expecting it to suddenly be running the latest. You assumed to the point of feeling entitled to additional OS updates beyond what the specs for the device clearly stated, 2.1. You know what they say about assuming? It makes an ass out of u and me.
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Click to collapse
Yup, SE has made an ass out of you and me.
I bought SE because I had SE phones in the past, I liked the style and functions and I especially liked the supplied software for the PC. I've unbranded them too.
In the case of the X10, I went back to look at my review in September on Amazon just a few moments ago. I expected a AT&T 2.1 by the end of the year, and I thought that once the X12 was released, SE would give us a 2.2 also, since the phone was still in warranty/service. No one new about 2.3/2.4 at that time. I thought that because the phone only had 384mb RAM it wouldn't be able to handled 'Gingerbread' without 512mb which was the rumor at that time for it's specs.
Additionally in that review, I said that the phone was compromised by not having noise cancellation, and that SE was very slow at updating it, but for good reason.
What PO's me is the unexpected shortened term to EOL. EIGHT MONTHS ON ATT? This is almost unheard of. SE's PC companion software for this phone is not as robust as the prior versions and the USB driver for flashing doesn't work on XP SP3 and they won't fix it. They tell you to upgrade to W7.
Due to shortcomings in the Android OS which I did not investigate as much as I should have, simple things like bluetooth devices that I have from SE don't WORK FULLY with either 1.6 and 2.1, I need 2.3 to get the full function back for devices that are YEARS old and worked fine with $50 phones.
Most of my current annoyance at the situation right now is due to the abandonment of the phone by both AT&T and SE. Yeah, they are updating stuff, and AT&T is certainly trying to wait it all out so they only have to approve/screw up a singe firmware update.
I really really want to hear from AT&T and SE that they will upgrade the phone to the Arc for the subsidized or further reduced price without contract extension or penalty fees, but I don't think AT&T is going to carry it or SE very quickly (again).
stan.s said:
Yup, SE has made an ass out of you and me.
I bought SE because I had SE phones in the past, I liked the style and functions and I especially liked the supplied software for the PC. I've unbranded them too.
In the case of the X10, I went back to look at my review in September on Amazon just a few moments ago. I expected a AT&T 2.1 by the end of the year, and I thought that once the X12 was released, SE would give us a 2.2 also, since the phone was still in warranty/service. No one new about 2.3/2.4 at that time. I thought that because the phone only had 384mb RAM it wouldn't be able to handled 'Gingerbread' without 512mb which was the rumor at that time for it's specs.
Additionally in that review, I said that the phone was compromised by not having noise cancellation, and that SE was very slow at updating it, but for good reason.
What PO's me is the unexpected shortened term to EOL. EIGHT MONTHS ON ATT? This is almost unheard of. SE's PC companion software for this phone is not as robust as the prior versions and the USB driver for flashing doesn't work on XP SP3 and they won't fix it. They tell you to upgrade to W7.
Due to shortcomings in the Android OS which I did not investigate as much as I should have, simple things like bluetooth devices that I have from SE don't WORK FULLY with either 1.6 and 2.1, I need 2.3 to get the full function back for devices that are YEARS old and worked fine with $50 phones.
Most of my current annoyance at the situation right now is due to the abandonment of the phone by both AT&T and SE. Yeah, they are updating stuff, and AT&T is certainly trying to wait it all out so they only have to approve/screw up a singe firmware update.
I really really want to hear from AT&T and SE that they will upgrade the phone to the Arc for the subsidized or further reduced price without contract extension or penalty fees, but I don't think AT&T is going to carry it or SE very quickly (again).
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Click to collapse
You know, even if AT&T gave us the update I bet most people, including myself, would stay generic because of AT&T's attempt to block us from non-market & some market apps. Even if SE gave us 2.2+, we would still be hacking it and installing our own custom ROMs and themes. The xda Xperia developers are the ones who have it rough.
I believe AT&T will do something for us. I am in a unique situation. I bought my X10a on November 10, during the update fiasco and I was told my X10a was coming already updated to 2.1. It obviously didn't. During the many phone calls since, they have always told me that I don't need to return the phone because something was around the corner. I'm sure everyone who has bought the X10a since has been told something similar.
Ps. I got the USB drivers to work on the flasher on my XP SP3. I remember having to find them and install myself, but I don't have any trouble.
Sent from my X10a using XDA App
Hey guys,
I really need to rant a little bit now.
This thread is for everyone creating all those "kill ASUS on facebook/twitter/blog sites" threads.
I really understand your angryness about the initial issues with the Prime, but has anyone of you guys ever thought about that you are doing huge damage to both ASUS and yourself with those hate campaigns?
Best example: "Lets spread information about minor software problems all over the web and its major blog sites"
This is ridicioulus guys... Seriously, ASUS really can't fix for example the serialnumber issue within 3 days...
They need to find out what's wrong first. After that they need to fix the problem. After fixing the testing follows.
All this needs time. And spreading rather unprofessional information all around the web won't speed this up at all.
But now to the main part of my rant: the damage being done to us, the owners of the Prime.
Do you guys really think you are doing anything good with those social attacks?
In fact you are driving many people away from the Prime for reasons which are seriously non-issues.
Lets re-think about the issues and ASUS reactions:
GPS issue: ASUS confirmed, that this might be a hardware problem,
it seems they are starting a bonus program for the ones not happy with the GPS (either 6 more months of warranty or a full refund)
This is actually really embarassing for them, but I couldn't think of any better method to solve this issue
(we are talking about realistic methods here, giving you a free TF700 is not realistic)
The Wifi issue: Well actually we do not know much about this.
ASUS told us it's not a hardware issue, rather an issue of specific batches with wrong firmware. We will see in the future what they can do here
The Wifi/BT issue: As several members found out this is a real non-issue. Speed drops appear across all devices and platforms when using BT and Wifi together. Nothing really to complain about here
Random lockups and reboots and unknown serial number issue: ASUS is aware of these problems, already got fixes and is testing these fixes right now.
Nobody else tests fixes with real customers in a public forum. Thats' great!
Now lets talk about that damage I am always talking about:
Here the facts:
Reporting minor software issue (GPS and Wifi aside here) definitely leads to a smaller customer base for the Prime
Major news sites falsely reported the serial number problem as a hardware problem, leading to confused users which do not want to buy this tablet
Smaller userbases always lead to less support, both from the company and also from our own developers.
Less company support means that we will get less often and lower quality updates for our Prime. The device will be abandonned much faster than devices with large customer bases
Less dev support means less innovating new features from our side, less custom ROMs, less custom kernels, in fact the smaller the userbase the faster the Prime development will go dead
Think of the HTC HD2: the ultimate development phone. Its rather big userbase lead to incredible development. They have everything on that phone: Win 6.x, WP 7, Android 2.x and 4.x, real Linux... Smaller userbases ultimately lead to worse device development
I guess it's already too late, the damage being done by you and the major blog sites is irreparable.
Non tech-focused customers who read Engadget won't get a Prime now.
But these non-tech focused guys are the imporatn part of a customer base.
We tech guys here are always a very minor part of a device's customer base.
Ah and by the way: If you buy a product directly after launch, you have to expect those kind of problems.
I haven't seen any product launch in the last years which had not initial problems and issues. No matter if tablet or phones, HTC or Samsung...
ASUS is always one of the first (the first?) major companies, providing support on xda-developers. That is nothing usual for big companies like ASUS.
Give them credit for this move.
I hope someone actually read that text...
I completely agree, thanks for this post. However the problem is it are mostly people who haven't even bought the Prime are *****ing the most.
I couldn't agree more, *****ing about the problem isn't gonna get anything solved. If you have problems try to help, that way things can get fixed more quickly and then everyone (or at least most) can be happy.
read it and agree, there are issues but the support from Asus on this forums is great.
Srsly? Do you have like Stockholm-Syndrome?
Asus threw an unfinishied product on the market.
They can't fix the SN issue in 3 days? Well, I didn't have such issues with my 4 other android devices. Maybe the should have been testing it.
Of course it is embarassing for Asus, but this is clearly not our fault. We fulfilled our part with odering and paying for a tablet. Rest is up to them.
While I agree that a free TF700 or such things would be impossible, the GPS problem is clearly a sign there has be no/not enough testing.
All the problems you are stating would have been showing due to Asus product testing, again. This is completely THEIR fault and they have to deal with it now.
You think we need to stop reporting errors to make the prime look better and they can sell more?
Dude, seriously. Do you buy a brand new car and when you have issues, you just shut up so the store can sell some more?
I'd really love to love my Prime, but with all those obvious mistakes Asus made, I can't.
The problem with what you are doing is: If you support Asus now, other companies will see it's ok to sell faulty products, and the next generation of tablets could have big issues as well.
You need to say what's wrong for anybody to hear. Or would you like to buy a product and then find out later that it's full of bugs? But nobody tould you because it wouldn't be nice for the company?
Do you think Asus will decrease support if less people are bying it?
Again, this wouldn't be nice, but it's completely in the hands of Asus.
It's a big company and they shouldn't have trouble emplyoing a few guys for support. If not, the save money on the wrong thing. Don't make (Non-)Buyers responsible for this.
No matter what other companies do, bringing an untested product to the market is not acceptable and that is the feedback Asus is getting now.
And no, you don't have to expect those "kind of problems".
When I buy a 600€-Tablet, I expect a full working one, and not in 3 months but NOW. I didn't have problems with my Optimus 2x or Iconia A500.
It's a big difference wether the company is fixing issues or improves the quality with updates.
And another point on Asus working with the community: It's nice they are on XDA, but... I remember there was...is... a locked and encrypted bootloader?
Yeah, right. Asus completely locked the Prime and only promised to make an unlock tool after giant social network ****storms.
Is this "working" with the community? Why didn't they look at HTC and provided an unlock tool from the beginning? Asus is only giving in because they are afraid of more bad attention. And that seems to be the only way for the community to be heard.
Just my 2c.
pintness
I think peoples persistence on forums have forced ASUS to look harder at the problem but never the less they are doing something and its a real credit to them that Gary Key is active on our forums now. I think in this modern age ASUS have took a brave step and one that they should be praised for.
We are all upset about the problems but we need to give ASUS fair time to address them. We have all had a rant but now its time to work with ASUS and give them as much information as possible, this is the only way we all get what we want, loyal happy customers and a fantastic product with new and exciting products on the horizon.
Cut them a bit of slack.
Dear Diamondback,
Damage to ASUS with those hate campaigns? I am sorry, but I am not going to speak well of a company that releases devices with as many problems that I have paid for. If I end up buying a broken device, I will be disappointed. They did not let these devices through proper quality control and we are suffering from it.
Serial number issue should have never happened. WiFi issue should have never happened. GPS should have never happened. These problems can be caught in quality control, but they didn't because they rushed the device to the market before holidays and did not test it long enough beforehand.
Yes, a lot of new devices have tech problems. Difference being that while I have been part of many tech launches as an early adopter in the past, I have never seen a launch that has this many critical problems and this amount of returned devices. Even I had to return a device because the keyboard just did not work and I've never had to do it before in my life.
As for damage to 'us', your points are irrelevant. Social media attacks are important, because they make ASUS more aware of these situations and react quicker. Let's be honest here, ASUS PR has been horrible throughout the Transformer Prime launch. It is only thanks to their customer support and engineers in this forum that we get some information out of ASUS.
I will not 'lie' and say that TF201 is a great device. It is really really good, but if you want to be sure and want a better all-round device then I will suggest people to get an iPad 2 and I will not tell my friends that this device does not have flaws just because this will increase ASUS sales and public image.
These social media attacks are important because ASUS will hopefully try to do better in the future, because a company cannot survive many of these clusterfraks in a row.
If ASUS will 'abandon the device' quicker because people are critical about it, then so be it. It will only make it clear to me not to buy ASUS products in the future, since it is exactly when there are problems, where support is needed. Not providing this will lose them even more customers in the future.
And trust me when I say this, Transformer Prime will never be a popular device in a way iPad, Galaxy Tab or Kindle Fire are popular. It will sell more than the original Transformer, but it will be very little known outside tech circles. Most of my friends don't even know that there is such a thing as TF101, let alone TF201.
How can ASUS change that? Not disappointing early adopters. It is the most crucial thing about products release, since early adopters are the most passionate customers. At the moment though many of us are with flawed screens, weak WiFi, non-existent GPS, devices without serial numbers and countless of other issues that will really hold us back from speaking well about the product we have paid a lot of money for.
ASUS can really change all that by letting devices actually go through quality control and testing. Many of the problems with Prime were detected in just the first days of use by us or the reviewers. ASUS can spare to delay the release by a week to provide additional testing for a fixed amount of devices.
Will they do it in the future? Who knows, unlikely. This device was rushed to the market to get as much sales as possible, ASUS did not care about us, the customers, they cared about their sales.
And this is why we have every right to be critical of ASUS. I hope they will do better in the future.
pintness said:
Srsly? Do you have like Stockholm-Syndrome?
[...]
Just my 2c.
pintness
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kristovaher said:
Dead Diamondback,
[...]
And this is why we have every right to be critical of ASUS. I hope they will do better in the future.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You both are not getting my point. Instead of going to the media you should report your errors to ASUS.
No matter how incompetent their customer support is on the phone, the errors will reach the developers anyway.
Nobody told you to praise the Prime. I just said that overpainting the issue won't help anyone. Not even you.
ASUS will fix the software problems. And the GPS issue got kinda resolved too. If you are not happy with it, return it.
I am pretty sure there will be other countries than UK and Taiwan with this move.
And yes you can't fix software errors in that scale in 3 days. Just deal with it. That's how software development works.
Oh and I hope that "Dead Diamondback" was a typo.... Otherwise, get off here troll
You haven't mentioned the dock issues lots of us are getting. My dock keyboard only works about 20% of the time I connect it. There is at least 30 or 40 users on here with the same issue, and about double that on the transformerforums site. This may not be a lot but I'm sure a lot of US owners don't own the dock where as is Europe you have to buy it as standard. ASUS support haven't been overly helpful - wait for the ICS upgrade and try a wipe - done that and it still doesn't work - no further update from ASUS. I'm having to send my tablet and dock back and hope the next one works fine - any issues with the new one and I'll be getting a refund.
kristovaher said:
Dead Diamondback,
Damage to ASUS with those hate campaigns? I am sorry, but I am not going to speak well of a company that releases devices with as many problems that I have paid for. If I end up buying a broken device, I will be disappointed. They did not let these devices through proper quality control and we are suffering from it.
Serial number issue should have never happened. WiFi issue should have never happened. GPS should have never happened. These problems can be caught in quality control, but they didn't because they rushed the device to the market before holidays and did not test it long enough beforehand.
Yes, a lot of new devices have tech problems. Difference being that while I have been part of many tech launches as an early adopter in the past, I have never seen a launch that has this many critical problems and this amount of returned devices. Even I had to return a device because the keyboard just did not work and I've never had to do it before in my life.
As for damage to 'us', your points are irrelevant. Social media attacks are important, because they make ASUS more aware of these situations and react quicker. Let's be honest here, ASUS PR has been horrible throughout the Transformer Prime launch. It is only thanks to their customer support and engineers in this forum that we get some information out of ASUS.
I will not 'lie' and say that TF201 is a great device. It is really really good, but if you want to be sure and want a better all-round device then I will suggest people to get an iPad 2 and I will not tell my friends that this device does not have flaws just because this will increase ASUS sales and public image.
These social media attacks are important because ASUS will hopefully try to do better in the future, because a company cannot survive many of these clusterfraks in a row.
If ASUS will 'abandon the device' quicker because people are critical about it, then so be it. It will only make it clear to me not to buy ASUS products in the future, since it is exactly when there are problems, where support is needed. Not providing this will lose them even more customers in the future.
And trust me when I say this, Transformer Prime will never be a popular device in a way iPad, Galaxy Tab or Kindle Fire are popular. It will sell more than the original Transformer, but it will be very little known outside tech circles. Most of my friends don't even know that there is such a thing as TF101, let alone TF201.
How can ASUS change that? Not disappointing early adopters. It is the most crucial thing about products release, since early adopters are the most passionate customers. At the moment though many of us are with flawed screens, weak WiFi, non-existent GPS, devices without serial numbers and countless of other issues that will really hold us back from speaking well about the product we have paid a lot of money for.
ASUS can really change all that by letting devices actually go through quality control and testing. Many of the problems with Prime were detected in just the first days of use by us or the reviewers. ASUS can spare to delay the release by a week to provide additional testing for a fixed amount of devices.
Will they do it in the future? Who knows, unlikely. This device was rushed to the market to get as much sales as possible, ASUS did not care about us, the customers, they cared about their sales.
And this is why we have every right to be critical of ASUS. I hope they will do better in the future.
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Click to collapse
GDI read the ****ing OP's first post. He did not ask you to kiss Asus' feet. He did not ask you to say false POSITIVE things about the Prime. He did not tell you to disregard Asus' mistakes. He simply asked you to vent your frustration and give your CONSTRUCTIVE feedback to the appropriate recipient: ASUS.
BTW you have my thanks OP.
kaiserpc said:
You haven't mentioned the dock issues lots of us are getting. My dock keyboard only works about 20% of the time I connect it. There is at least 30 or 40 users on here with the same issue, and about double that on the transformerforums site. This may not be a lot but I'm sure a lot of US owners don't own the dock where as is Europe you have to buy it as standard. ASUS support haven't been overly helpful - wait for the ICS upgrade and try a wipe - done that and it still doesn't work - no further update from ASUS. I'm having to send my tablet and dock back and hope the next one works fine - any issues with the new one and I'll be getting a refund.
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Click to collapse
Hm, seems I missed that. My german dock works perfectly. What's the issue exactly?
But still, ASUS is a big company, they can't just find, fix, test, and make an announcement in 3 days...
It reminds me of the launch of the HTC Desire HD, Back then it seemed as though the first couple of batches that made it into customers hands had not been properly tested and manufacturing QC was absolutely terrible.
GPS issues were rife, cases didn't fit together properly, screens were loose with dust underneath them. Then of course there was the screen bleed, stuck pixels and countless other problems.
I remember it well as I was one of the first people on this forum to receive my DHD and I spent countless hours sitting watching IRC channels for root to be achieved.
Now then after that short history lesson, here is the point of my story. There was a lot of complaining about these issues here on the forum, but what most people did was either accept the fact that this was an early batch and realised that as an early adopter these things are to be expected, or they sent them back. End of story.
There was no smeer campaign, nothing. Just people being adult about the situation and that's that.
Thanks for listening.
Doktaphex said:
It reminds me of the launch of the HTC Desire HD, Back then it seemed as though the first couple of batches that made it into customers hands had not been properly tested and manufacturing QC was absolutely terrible.
[...]
Thanks for listening.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Same here, I think I got one of the first good batches
Nobody started a big ****storm back then and everything is fine today. The Desire HD is still a very good device and it was one of the top sold devices from HTC.
HTC sorted out all problems.
Agree
I actually agree with everything you said diamondback.
I personally love my prime, but i have a couple of issues here and there. Nothing that wont get fixed in the long run. I have a moan here and there, But i still show my support to a brilliant device.
And another thing i have never seen is a compnay actually showing their dedication to fixing the problems like asus. For god sake people they actually have a rep on here talking to people and providing inside information that actually could help. And again in garys posts people are attacking them there.
I really those people who are attacking asus shoulld either:
1. Suck it up and shut up and wait for a fix
2. Sell there device or take it back for a refund and shut up about it.
I know its not the best path, but you have to give a company some time for actually fix these issues. It doesnt happen over night, they ar'nt robots!
Rant over
---------- Post added at 11:57 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:55 AM ----------
Diamondback said:
Same here, I think I got one of the first good batches
Nobody started a big ****storm back then and everything is fine today. The Desire HD is still a very good device and it was one of the top sold devices from HTC.
HTC sorted out all problems.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
its funny because i have a DHD, i got one of the bad batches and still using it this day. Although HTC's repair team didnt do anything when i sent it back in. 3 days before my warrenty ran out. But that was a GPS issue for me. And im not really that bothered about it to be fair.
I personally love my phone, ive modded it so many times now ive lost count.
Just remember...Man with hand in pocket feel cocky all day
But aren't we pushing for double-standards here?
Because it would be a ****storm all around if Apple releases a product that has even a single critical flaw. Such as iPhone 4 antennagate. People pay a lot for Apple for quality, they don't expect such problems and Apple has very, very few issues like that with their product launches.
On the other hand we have ASUS who releases a product that has GPS that cannot be used, has weak WiFi range (+ broken WiFi on early US units), weak quality control on screen, keyboard and software issues with crashes and inability to update. Transformer Prime has more early adoption issues than iPhone's and iPad's have had in total.
Apple has set the standard, so when we end up paying a lot of money and face this many problems, being publicly critical about it makes sense. Sure you could say that ASUS is small compared to Apple, but if they want to compete with Apple they simply have to do better. If they release a device that is as flawed, it is not just bad for customers, but Android in general. I remember giving excuses to people who used my HTC Desire back in the day that had a multitouch screen that was not multitouch and it was obvious that it is a lesser device. I will feel just as bad when someone tries to use GPS on my Prime and is confused that it doesn't work and so on, because they -expect- the device to function.
Pat on the back and 'better next time' just doesn't cut it, since many of us will be using the device for more than a year. This is not a startup world, ASUS has been in the business for years, they are ambitious with their claims of having created the best tablet, if they cannot live up to it, they deserve the criticism.
They are a big boy and will hopefully do better next time. Market demands it. Otherwise someone else will simply create better devices and wins over the customers that ASUS has. ASUS is unique in that it offers an innovative keyboard dock with Prime, if it becomes popular then competition will increase and I'll gladly jump ship to manufacturer that has a better history with product launches.
Thank you OP for IMHO a needed and well thought out post.
I completely agree with OP post. People that are unsatisfied can easily return device and move on. But no, instead they love to hang around a nag like women with each other. I can tell most polls made here in thisbsection was made to make the Prime look bad. But guess what, it backfired. Most, if not all polls here show in favor of the Prime in a positive light. Don't believe me, just take a look. Of all the people that voted in them, its always 77-85% or more people that are happy with devices, or defect free or etc...
Although the smear campaigns might hurt a little, the ball is already rolling. Even the negative people not going to be able to stop developement. We already have a good number of developers doing alot of great things without bootloader unlocked yet. We have other major developers just waiting to hit the ground running once unlocking tool is available. Its almost surreal sometimes reading the issues some people have. As from 12/22 my device has worked great everyday and have really been enjoying it. Its really sad how some people try to nitpick every single little thing.
If you are unsatisfied with device, do like moderator Jerdog said. Which was get rid of device then, whine somewhere else, AND GO AWAY! Developers not going to want to hear your sob stories. Just imagine once custom roms start being made. Are those same people going to whine all the time after an early build is built n has some issues to be fixed?
Another thing also, some people are plain stupid. They smear n attack Asus for the Prime yet they talk of getting the new A-700. Dumb move. This new device hasn't even been proven tl be better then the Prime and won't be out for 4-5 months at the earliest. People just assume its better because it has a plastic strip across the back. Nothing can be assumed. This hasn't been thouroughly tested or reviewed by major tech sites to say its better. Which a mini test of sorts showed it wasn't, as far as wireless goes. To me. Asus is a great company because I received a great product. If people are to stupid to just return device instead of crying up here online, then that's on them. As they clearly have seen the people that love their devices way outnumber those who don't. sand ususally its the same people always complaining. That's why I've stopped trying to combat them in the threads really. I just report the post or thread, if its unreasonable. This has been working as several complaining threads already have been shut down. Even moderator tired of all the whining.
Just carry your a$$ somewhere else if you don't like your device. Plain n simple!
kristovaher said:
On the other hand we have ASUS who releases a product that has GPS that cannot be used, has weak WiFi range (+ broken WiFi on early US units), weak quality control on screen, keyboard and software issues with crashes and inability to update. Transformer Prime has more early adoption issues than iPhone's and iPad's have had in total.
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I've had NONE of the issues you mentioned. The only thing I can't confirm that works 100% is the GPS since I did not buy this tablet to use as a primary GPS unit! I have a phone that does that and is more PORTABLE since it fits in my pants pocket. Last I tried using the GPS, it locked on my exact location in less than a minute. But really, I didn't really care, I only tested it because of all the damn *****ing on this forum.
So yes, I am a proud owner of a Prime with a "functioning" GPS, STANDARD wifi range, a VIVID screen, operational keyboard dock, no software issues, and updated with ICS.
First, OP, this isn’t just about Asus. What you’re saying in your post is that to protect the image and viability of a product (any product), people should suck up what they’re handed and deal with problems quietly in a way that benefits the manufacturer. That way, the product’s image will be protected. That’s great for current owners looking to reinforce their purchase and to grow the user base, but what about people that haven’t yet purchased the product? Hide defects and issues from them so they can figure it out themselves? If Acer hoses the A700 launch, would you give the same advice to their board? This goes against the principles of XDA.
Back to the Prime. Many of the issues discussed here caused people to say the Prime wasn’t right for them and either returned them or passed. Would you deprive them of that knowledge beforehand to further your personal agenda? Did you sign the “unlock the bootloader” petition? If so, then you’re being somewhat hypocritical.
Manufacturers need to be held accountable for their decisions. In Asus’ case, the choice of a metal back cover, claiming “GPS” when there wasn’t, racing the Prime to market with inadequate testing, and the random QC issues were all self-inflicted. Following your guidance, if this was kept quiet and didn’t impact sales, what incentive would they have going forward to sweat the details and deliver high quality products starting with unit number one?
Any “damage done to the Prime” was done in meeting rooms in Taiwan long before anyone here had a Prime in their hands. And h/w and s/w aside, hopefully Asus learned from this that customers aren’t sheep and willing to accept what they’re given and in the future will provide more frequent, accurate, and consistent communication before and after they launch a product. It’s terrific that after the damage was done Gary Key’s been proactive in cleaning up the mess and Asus offered a six-month warranty extension. Let’s give them an “A” for that. They get an “F” for how they managed the launch, communication, some of their design choices, and initial QC. So, at best, they’ve earned a “C.” If they’re a learning organization, let’s see what they do with the TF700. If it’s a repeat of the Prime, then God help them. And if the TF700 is everything the Prime should have been, that’s what’s going to cause the problems you outlined to happen, not the *****ing.
My friends that bought (and returned) Prime’s are pissed. Anyone trying to get one before the holidays went through flaming hoops and invested a lot of time and energy that they won’t get back via a “refund.” They’ll never purchase an Asus product again and are telling everyone they know about their experience. So even if everyone on XDA follows your advice, the damage will continue long after the postings stop. And it should because that’s what keeps manufacturers in check.
http://www.trustedreviews.com/news/apollo-update-not-coming-to-current-windows-phones
Not looking too promising eh?
AndyFZ1S said:
http://www.trustedreviews.com/news/apollo-update-not-coming-to-current-windows-phones
Not looking too promising eh?
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I smell BS since this "news" is only a day after another "insider" said it was coming to all WP7 devices.
Erik Latranyi said:
I smell BS since this "news" is only a day after another "insider" said it was coming to all WP7 devices.
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http://www.theverge.com/2012/4/19/2959707/microsoft-developer-evangelist-retracts-mango-apollo
whoops.
Trust nothing and no one until the fat lady sings.....
theguy said:
http://www.theverge.com/2012/4/19/2959707/microsoft-developer-evangelist-retracts-mango-apollo
whoops.
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Verge has become an Android-wh*@# recently. They are hungry for the clicks and hence their anti-Lumia articles. Then they followed it up with anti-Windows Phone and this. I would say, if you own anything but Windows Phone, only then you should read Verge. Their sources always want to be unnamed and always want to be anonymous!
Atleast that dude was filmed and we know him! - I trust what I see. Even if he joked he had balls unlike verge's anonymous people they make up!
drupad2drupad said:
Verge has become an Android-wh*@# recently. They are hungry for the clicks and hence their anti-Lumia articles. Then they followed it up with anti-Windows Phone and this. I would say, if you own anything but Windows Phone, only then you should read Verge. Their sources always want to be unnamed and always want to be anonymous!
Atleast that dude was filmed and we know him! - I trust what I see. Even if he joked he had balls unlike verge's anonymous people they make up!
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Well that article points out how the guy in the video has retracted what he said in the video. Here's the original link:
http://blogs.msdn.com/b/nunos/archive/2012/04/19/my-comments-on-windows-phone.aspx
Imagine all the people that went and got the Lumia and all the money wasted on advertisement only to say.. Nope that phone we threw at you telling you its the best won't see Apollo... Here buy this one instead. Along with the Titan One/Two. Businesses have made stupid mistakes and Microsoft might do another dumb move and spit on your faces.
Only take what comes officially from Microsoft not some websites with no affiliation or some lonely employee.
I am pretty sure none of us will and should get an "Apollo". We clearly don't have specs for that.
However, what we will get is skinned Apollo. We are sure to get all the features of the OS e.g.
1) better multitasking
2) better UI consistancy (if applied)
3) better integration of features (plus additional ones)
4) better or/and faster IE
5) better bluetooth support
These stuff don't need all that extra hardware specs, so we could safely have them.
The rumours of Lumia 610, 800 being tested with Apollo could well be true considering the above could be applied with no extra hardware that comes with Apollo.
Let us keep in mind that Android users are the most ignored for official upgrades (unless you come to XDA).
The article reads like they HOPE MS leaves current hardware behind for Apollo.
Looking at the Tango update and the fact you will be able to send MMS video& ting , As long as we get a few other treats thrown in then I don't think I will be that bothered if I get an Apollo related update or not, TBH I was extremely happy with my HD2 but upgrades and progress lead me over to the Darkside of WP7 and although I suffered from boredom before nodo and see it through to Mango I don't think It will ever be what everyone wants, There will always be a better handset on the horizon and if it turns out MS don't fully deliver then simply change platform.
I too am not bothered about the apollo update if it does not reach the Titan. I too am more than happy with the OS as it stands.
I received the below e-mail today. I did not appreciate being contacted out of the blue via e-mail; if you feel the need to contact me, use XDA's tagging feature. With that said, I thought I'd reply in public with my thoughts on the matter, hoping to drive a constructive conversation about Verizon Wireless' restrictions for devices on their network. My initial response is in post 2.
Please, think through your responses before posting. Make sure they ADD to the conversation.
What do you think of having everyone from XDA and the CM community using the DINC 4G LTE file Better Business Bureau complaints against verizon? It made a business decision not to give us updates, and has deliberately removed the DINC 4g from the HTC Unlock program. They shouldn't be allowed to abandon the platform and to remove unlocking ability that was there.
BBB asks them to respond within 14 days. [edit: link removed]
or have you already tried this route?
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I will leave it up to the writer of the e-mail if he/she would like to make himself/herself known here.
Can you point to a single advertisement by either HTC or Verizon that the Droid Incredible 4G LTE would ever be included in HTCDev's unlocked bootloader program? Even HTC's generic advertisements include disclaimers that some devices may not be included due to various restrictions (the most obvious being carrier refusal). HTC can justify the ability to unlock the bootloader pre-public availability as a means to let developers directly related to software development and quality assurance alter the ROM before release. To a handful of end users who get the device in the early days of release, they get to sneak in and use the unlocker under the "Other devices" category of the program. I suspect we owe HTC a thank you for dragging their feet for a week before disabling the unlock ability for this (and several other) device(s). There is no legitimate complaint that can be filed towards Verizon concerning this matter since they never advertised this as an available feature.
On the topic of abandoning the platform, software-wise, the last available software update for the Incredible 4G still works with reasonable stability and all advertised features are enabled. It is natural for technology devices to age and need replacement; a balance has to be struck between user content or disdain and extent of support. Verizon has apparently deemed there will be very little blowback by prematurely ending software updates. Considering the number of users I see in the XDA forum section for this phone, I'd guess they're right. About the only sticking point that could be leveraged to force a software update out of Verizon is if there are security vulnerabilities that are either being actively exploited or pose a real threat of being exploited in the near future.
Succinctly, we are at the mercy of Verizon's "generosity" concerning extended functionality of, and software updates for, the phones on their network. With these thoughts, I believe we can only ask them to help us out... with reason, anger, begging, or whatever tactic you find most influential. I don't think we can force their hand.
Your thoughts XDAers?
I agree with mdmower. Having come from the OG Droid, I had zero expectation for HTC or Verizon to let me unlock the phone. While I did not expect this phone to be the left-handed, red-haired step-child twice removed orphan of Verizon, it is a great phone with a 4" screen. The size is good (still prefer OG Droid) and the processor and internet speeds are great. I personally am quite content with this phone. We have been blessed with some extremely talented developers and supporters who have
Developed a method to unlock despite HTC/Verizon
Developed two methods for s-off:
DirtyRacun - IMHO, unlimited.io did a great job
FacePalm - Haven't tried, but looks great
Two great recoveries:
Official CWM Recovery, Plus PhilZ
TWRP Recovery
Developed an Incredible Rock Solid Sense ROM in ViperLTE
Developed a solid, official CyanogenMod ROM .
There are probably more, but those are just off of the top of my head. I am also still seeing great ongoing development work for ROMs for this phone. Sure, this phone doesn't have the plethora of ROMs that the OG Droid, Dinc2, Rezound, or [insert model here], but what we do have is solid.
I'm not exactly sure what Verizon owes us. We have a great phone with a great 4GLTE network (at least in my area). It should also be noted that Verizon actually put out an OTA for the OG Dinc around 2+ years after its release with "Improvements and fixes". I would expect the same for this phone as well. I too believe that threats, anger, etc. will not do anything more than generate ill will.
Just my $0.03.
P.S. Why do we still care if there is an "official" bootloader unlock? As mentioned above, we have a proved method to unlock bootloader and/or gain s-off. Even HTC's site says that unlocking bootloader through their "official" site may void your warranty.
HTC Dev said:
Please understand that you will not be able to return your device to the original state and going forward your device may not be held covered under the warranty for all claims resulting from the unlocking of the bootloader. HTC bears no responsibility if your device is no longer usable afterwards.
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The only thing to take away from this is to avoid Verizon and HTC. They may not owe us anything more than we received, but they are clearly sub-par companies compared to others. Unfortunately, I can't ditch Verizon just now because I'm on a shared plan, but I will never buy an HTC phone again.
junkmail9 said:
I agree with mdmower. Having come from the OG Droid, I had zero expectation for HTC or Verizon to let me unlock the phone....
P.S. Why do we still care if there is an "official" bootloader unlock?
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Just to clarify, I'm not content with the support Verizon has offered for this phone, I just realize that we cannot expect them to continue support. I am still not sure about the best avenues of communication with Verizon Wireless, so in a feeble attempt to get their attention, I write a short #openletter on G+.
A far as the official bootloader unlock, it is a little important. An example is the recently advertised CM installer (by the way, I do not have any insider knowledge about CM Inc.). The installer will almost surely be available only to devices with legitimate unlock ability. While the fireball is pretty much "a bit"-out-of-luck even if it did get official unlock, due to the inability to flash the boot partition while in recovery, at some point users need to convince Verizon Wireless to allow unlocked bootloaders for phones on their network. This is especially relevant to the many, many users who are wise enough to not tinker with their phones because of lack of knowledge. They deserve the opportunity to safely replace the legacy operating system on their phone, and this will only be possible if the carrier and manufacturer allow it.
The open letter seems pointless, besides maybe allowing other people to see and take note that Verizon ignores certain customers. As far as our phone though, no point really. Anyone you reach through G+, Facebook, Twitter, Verizon's customer service contacts, etc. will have no real power to do anything. They just give the typical "sorry, we're doing our best" garbage. The message never reaches anyone important enough to actually do anything. The only way a message may get to them is if the user base is very large, but even if we all wrote to them everyday it wouldn't help. Not enough people for them to care. As you said, we're at their mercy. Just have to wait.
mdmower said:
A far as the official bootloader unlock, it is a little important. An example is the recently advertised CM installer (by the way, I do not have any insider knowledge about CM Inc.). The installer will almost surely be available only to devices with legitimate unlock ability. While the fireball is pretty much "a bit"-out-of-luck even if it did get official unlock, due to the inability to flash the boot partition while in recovery, at some point users need to convince Verizon Wireless to allow unlocked bootloaders for phones on their network. This is especially relevant to the many, many users who are wise enough to not tinker with their phones because of lack of knowledge. They deserve the opportunity to safely replace the legacy operating system on their phone, and this will only be possible if the carrier and manufacturer allow it.
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This is an excellent point I had not considered. I was not thinking about the larger issue, (nor am I savvy with the upcoming CM installer). Unfortunately, I have run into a few companies that have seriously dummied down their products because, as one tech support person told me, "some users may have a problem with the advanced features so we removed them." While I can try and understand that point, it was really frustrating because some advanced features I had come to rely on were removed in the product upgrade. Simply because some people could not comprehend how to use it properly? Is Verizon trying to protect us from ourselves, dummy down the phones for "the uneducated masses," or simply trying to force their customers to live with Verizon-installed bloatware?
Okay I have My own say to this.!
Okay so I left AT&T network when I owned the HTC Inspire 4g and moved on to Verizon because there service was better in my area and I purchased the HTC Droid Incredible 4G LTE as my first phone with Verizon, I came to like the phone because it was fast, snappy, and good on battery....... But I constantly waited for update to jellybean ( Sense 4+ ) which in reality would make the device more efficient and smoother than it was on Ice Cream Sandwich... And finally I heard the news that we were going to get an update to jellybean in the beginning of 2013.. But after so much time of waiting I finally gave up hope and said ***k the device and went back to AT&T...... and bought the HTC One XL because it recieved updates to sense 5. The device is like an older sibling to the inc4g with close to the same specs. I sold the Incredible 4g because I hated the lack of support for this device... The only good thing going for it was CM10 and the amazing sense kernel. This community deserves more than what has been given to them so far... So my question is why Verizon drop support for us.???? If this community received jelly bean j defiantly would sell my XL and come back to this community......
This is my only my concern.
Sincerely,
24ky
Sent from my HTC One XL using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
Here is a weird thought. let your money do the talking. leave Verizon. if enough of us leave we dont need to "change their minds". i brought this up in an HTC elevate detection not to long ago ( also how come htc bent over backwards because verizon wanted the bootload unlock for the ONE removed). instead of open letters or angry tweets and emails, just take your money to someone that appreciates you as a customer? put your money into a company that understands the development community and is willing to support you. how do you think verizon got so good? the used to listen to their customers. now that they are self sustaining they dont need to listen to us anymore. but i bet if their wallet was hit the would. they would bring back unlimited data, remove the block of google wallet, ect....
You wouldn't take your car to a mechanic that does great work but also makes you spend $$ money on things that don't need to be fixed.
my $.02
synisterwolf said:
Here is a weird thought. let your money do the talking. leave Verizon. if enough of us leave we dont need to "change their minds" i brought this up in an HTC elevate detection not to long ago. instead of open letters or angry tweets, just take your money to someone that appreciates you as a customer? put your money into a company that understands the development community and is willing to support you.
You wouldn't take your car to a mechanic that does great work but also makes you spend $$ money on things that don't need to be fixed.
my $.02
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This is my point from before. This is the only thing you can really do. I wish I could dump Verizon right now, but I can't. For now I'll just settle for never buying HTC again.
somerandomname1 said:
This is my point from before. This is the only thing you can really do. I wish I could dump Verizon right now, but I can't. For now I'll just settle for never buying HTC again.
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this too. maybe if HTC where to step in and help us it would be different.
OP not trying to troll or anything or start a war. i just wanted to get that out their. we do have an option to take our money somewhere else. or at least when this contract is over. ive said it before, i need unlimited data. i dont have wifi anywhere i work and im barely at home so if i have to give up my data plan i will give up my business too. im going to miss there unbeatable coverage but i cant stand to be hit in the balls over and over again with a smile on their face. :/
mdmower said:
I received the below e-mail today. I did not appreciate being contacted out of the blue via e-mail; if you feel the need to contact me, use XDA's tagging feature. With that said, I thought I'd reply in public with my thoughts on the matter, hoping to drive a constructive conversation about Verizon Wireless' restrictions for devices on their network. My initial response is in post 2.
Please, think through your responses before posting. Make sure they ADD to the conversation.
I will leave it up to the writer of the e-mail if he/she would like to make himself/herself known here.
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My 2 cents on this from bitter experience. You will get zilch. You will waste precious amounts of your life trying hard to convince a rigid management who can care so little they'd be happy to break your phone to pieces and hand you another from their stockpile of dinc4g's just to get rid of them ASAP. I've gone through the whole lot with BBB complaints etc. for the Droid X2 by Motorola. haha, wasted my life there. And the countless pleadings to release the ICS ROM that HTC clearly developed for the Dinc2 (Incredible S, international variant got the ICS update) only to get on the Verizon chopping block and get its head unceremoniously severed, taught me one thing and that is we as consumers have knowingly chosen this path, that will give us limited to no flexibility on customization to stay on VZW and we have to "deal" with it.
With all good intentions, I request all to keep your expectations rock bottom. You have better chances of going to the moon on a future Russian spacecraft than convincing Verizon as to why this may be a good idea.
Sincerely,
A disgruntled Droid™ user.
here has been my android experience. started on og inc oct 2010 first droid phone considered ''high-end'' at the time (8 mp camera saaaaay whaaaat??!) then dinc2 great phone but compared to the galaxy S II and the galaxy nexus at the time it was a ''mid range" phone. now with the inc4g it is very ''mid range'' compared to what is out now. the galaxy notes and s4's and the 50 different htc One(s). if you want many different roms to flash to fix your ''addiction'' go nexus or one of the mainstream phones. you will find 100 different "Unofficial CM10.X" roms with "user tweaks" and "kernel tweaks" that in all actuality are nothing more then a reposync from source. yeah they might have a few different mods but they are usually so similar that you will not/could not tell the difference. like someone mentioned earlier I would rather have a few solid roms. a good sense (viper) or if you're an aosp guy like me there's cm. I think anybody who saw the specs of this phone (incredible 4g) and thought, "hey this is going to be the next BIG THING." I'm sorry to tell you that you were mistaken. xda dev support of a phone is only as good as the devs that own the device, and in our case we have a very small amount of active devs.
So I am the a-hole that emailed mdmower. I apologize profusely. When I saw your first post, I almost slunk away in shame, never to show my face here again. I am not even being a little bit facetious. You do great work for a community of people and I abused (what obviously is) an important rule. And I'm really sorry.
In an attempt to redeem myself just a little bit, let me point out one thing that you might not know:
mdmower said:
Can you point to a single advertisement by either HTC or Verizon that the Droid Incredible 4G LTE would ever be included in HTCDev's unlocked bootloader program? Even HTC's generic advertisements include disclaimers that some devices may not be included due to various restrictions (the most obvious being carrier refusal) [SNIP] There is no legitimate complaint that can be filed towards Verizon concerning this matter since they never advertised this as an available feature.
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Actually, some states may have more favorable law here. First and foremost, many states have an unfair/deceptive business practices law that are distinct from the false advertising law. Example: New York has GBL Section 349 (trade practices), and 350 (Advertising). These are consumer-oriented statutes and so they have some bite.
On this point, while Verizon has never said they would provide us with Jelly Bean, there are some nice facts here like how many people were locked into 2 year contracts on a phone that Verizon stopped updating during their two year period. I've seen suggestions that Verizon is pulling this with older phones in order to force upgrades, and if true, that would be the basis for a claim. But here, I think the HTCDev unlock is actually pretty damning. We should be entitled to take discovery into the real reasons why Verizon forced HTC to remove the phone from the program. Given the repeated warnings about waiver of warranty, and the presence of other VZW phones in the program, it's hard to believe it's a support issue.
Finally -- of note is that the ACLU has filed an FTC complaint on this subject earlier this year. Unfortunately I cannot post the link since I just registered for this post (long time lurker) but it's the 2nd hit for "april FTC complaint android" (see pages 6-9) Their basis is the potential for security flaws which go unfixed. The relief they are requesting is pretty broad. I'm actually surprised that there haven't been follow-on civil suits already.
Anyway, I am really sorry again. I'm going to crawl back under the rock I came from now.
If it's any comfort: my punishment is that my D4INC is a flicker model.
PrimePalaver said:
If it's any comfort: my punishment is that my D4INC is a flicker model.
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Haha burn! Just kidding... it's cool.