OK, so I've had Android since the G1, then the Vibrant and now the SGS2 so I'm familiar with flashing and rooting and all that good stuff but some of the basics elude me...
I'm not a coder, programmer or modder in any way, shape or form. Nor do I claim to be.
Here's my question. Google writes the source code for the Android OS, then releases it to manufacturers to add their bloat/spin (TouchWiz, Sense, etc). If the underlying code is the same, why is it not easier to take the original source code and flash it on any phone?
I'll use Windows as an example here:
If I buy a PC with Windows Home Premium on it from HP, I'll get all of the extra bloat that HP puts on the machine to "enhance" my experience. However, if I decide to, I can format (or flash) my PC and install a "clean" version of Windows (direct from Microsoft) on it direct from CD or DVD. Doesn't matter if I format and install on an HP, Dell, Gateway, Acer, etc. because the source code is same. Aside from a couple of driver issues, on first boot, everything works.
Why is it not the same for Android on the phones? Is getting the code for the drivers what holds us back?
The other bonus is that even if something goes wrong, since I essentially rooted my PC (I removed what was originally installed on the PC and put the original source code on it) I can still send it in to get repaired to HP or Gateway or Dell. I can't do that with a phone. If I root my phone, my warranty is void. Even if the hardware is defective.
Windows has a "minimum hardware requirements" that a PC must meet in order to run Windows.
Why would Google not have a similar requirement? "A phone must have these specs to run Android."
I understand that Sense, TouchWiz, etc will add bloat to the interface but (and maybe I'm naive here) it shouldn't be that hard to get back to the source code on the phones, should it?
Help me. I don't understand. Again, I'm not a coder, programmer or modder in any way, shape or form. I root my phone(s) and try to get as close to the original source code as I can but I rely on smarter people to get me there. Granted I could buy a Nexus device and not have to worry about it. However, that just goes to further emphasis my question; Google pushes original source code out to the Galaxy Nexus, Nexus One, Nexus S. So why is it not easier to get that same source code on other phones?
Thanks in advance...
-Steve
The reason you void your warranty with rooting is simply because that's what you agree to when you purchase it. Just something that carriers/manufacturers have gone with and we as consumers haven't fought it. Realistically it might be something that could be addressed in court or through the FCC. If you buy a car and modify it, if something fails unless the dealership can prove that your modification caused the failure they still have to cover the repair under warranty. That said, for now the majority accept it and the majority still do not root and such so it's accepted. Perhaps as more people become aware of what can be done with their phones, especially if companies start using apps like Tasker to increase efficiency of their corporate devices, there's the possibility that this will change.
Buying an Android device, the warranty covers the system installation. Buying a PC, it does not.
The reason you void your warranty with rooting is simply because that's what you agree to when you purchase it. Just something that carriers/manufacturers have gone with and we as consumers haven't fought it. Realistically it might be something that could be addressed in court or through the FCC. If you buy a car and modify it, if something fails unless the dealership can prove that your modification caused the failure they still have to cover the repair under warranty. That said, for now the majority accept it and the majority still do not root and such so it's accepted. Perhaps as more people become aware of what can be done with their phones, especially if companies start using apps like Tasker to increase efficiency of their corporate devices, there's the possibility that this will change.
kuisma said:
Buying an Android device, the warranty covers the system installation. Buying a PC, it does not.
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I appreciate the feedback and I get the analogies, however, my original question remains unanswered:
Why is it so difficult to get the original source code onto any android device? Is it drivers? Manufacturer incompatibility?
I'd be interested to learn the process (just a general overview and hopefully in English) it takes to port the original source code onto multiple devices.
Thanks again...
-Steve
brisseau said:
Why is it so difficult to get the original source code onto any android device? Is it drivers? Manufacturer incompatibility?
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Hardware manufacturers develops specific hardware suitable for their devices, requiring special drivers and/or kernel modifications.
The radio code is not a part of the Android OS, and only the Radio Interface Layer (RIL) must conform to the Android API specs.
Hardware manufacturers are free to vary installation parameters such as what disk types to use (mmc, mtd), sizing of partitions to best utilise the available space, etc.
Related
ORIGINALLY from this thread: ( i just want to help to have more signature )
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=294213
http://www.petitiononline.com/xdadevs/petition.html
To: Microsoft
This Petition aims to show the support for xda-developers.com's archive of 'ROM Images'
The Undersigned wish to notify Microsoft Corp. of their strong feelings against the recent demands to remove the 'ROM Images'. We feel that they bring more publicity and support to the 'Windows Mobile' platform and device: without this we feel they would not be as popular as they are to this date.
Please think rationally Microsoft!
Sincerely,
The Undersigned
This is an old and sensitive issue. This is not solely Microsoft's decision. Microsoft's Windows Mobile is bundled with Manufacturer's device under operators/distributors specification. This is a three-way agreement. Microsoft can not sell you the OS, because the device drivers is built by third party.
The reason for its removal from this site is the consequences of flashing an unofficial ROM. Some damn users don't know what they are doing... Flash their devices with custom ROMs, brick their devices unnecessarily, claims warranty to operator/distributor, and even sometimes demand support to an unofficial ROM.
Simply stated, if your were in their shoes, what would you do?
In the same manner, we, the users who understand the situation, are left with devices with very little or no support when new devices come out. We were sold with devices that cost like a PC, and NO OPTION to buy an upgrade from them.
And what are we supposed to do? buy again another device with the new software? That's plain bull.
So, your campaign is pointless! In the end, what really matters to them is the bottom line.
jiggs said:
This is an old and sensitive issue. This is not solely Microsoft's decision. Microsoft's Windows Mobile is bundled with Manufacturer's device under operators/distributors specification. This is a three-way agreement. Microsoft can not sell you the OS, because the device drivers is built by third party.
The reason for its removal from this site is the consequences of flashing an unofficial ROM. Some damn users don't know what they are doing... Flash their devices with custom ROMs, brick their devices unnecessarily, claims warranty to operator/distributor, and even sometimes demand support to an unofficial ROM.
Simply stated, if your were in their shoes, what would you do?
In the same manner, we, the users who understand the situation, are left with devices with very little or no support when new devices come out. We were sold with devices that cost like a PC, and NO OPTION to buy an upgrade from them.
And what are we supposed to do? buy again another device with the new software? That's plain bull.
So, your campaign is pointless! In the end, what really matters to them is the bottom line.
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bro this is not my campaign, im just supporting this.
Thanks for the explanation,.
Feh, Microsoft just doesn't want unsupported devices floating around. <_<
And seriously, the custom ROM excuse is... crap.
It's similar to the case of a laptop owner having his warranty voided because he ran Linux instead of Vista (he later got his warranty repair anyway).
I know it's a PDA but I expect the folks who make the stuff to be better than trying to lock people down into a walled garden. -.-"
Especially a brand such as O2 who sell the product then dont provide a decent OS or service to go with it! These are our devices we paid for them we extracted the OS's to build or rebuild a better quality rom, from what I have seen nobody has asked for money or otherwise! Lets face it MS arnt going to break their budget over a handful of ppl cooking and sharing a few upgraded roms.
This was an old thread.. Feb.
It now really does not or really concern as all the rom is for evaluation and testing. As long we agree to flash it to the so-call required version, and even it spoilt, we fix ourself
Mine's out of warranty. The only thing I wish right now is that O2 actually releases the service manual.
Dont forget someone needs to pay for the software
post removed because of my employer
homer285 said:
Especially a brand such as O2 who sell the product then dont provide a decent OS or service to go with it! These are our devices we paid for them we extracted the OS's to build or rebuild a better quality rom, from what I have seen nobody has asked for money or otherwise! Lets face it MS arnt going to break their budget over a handful of ppl cooking and sharing a few upgraded roms.
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Let's see, I have setup the download center for the XDA Atom WM6 AKU0.7 to see the statistics... as of this date, there are 3,349 downloads....
jiggs said:
Let's see, I have setup the download center for the XDA Atom WM6 AKU0.7 to see the statistics... as of this date, there are 3,349 downloads....
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briliant jiggs,.
Hi Guys,
Don't forget that windows mobile is a copy written bit of software. Someone needs to pay for it. Normally the vendor pays Microsoft for the license for your device. That's fine for the initial release. However notice that only products that are still being sold get an updated rom? Why's that.... Because the vendor still wants to sell that device. Once its out of production no rom upgrades... funny that. Its the trend for all consumer electronics. Its all about pushing sku's or stock unit items. Remember that all these company's are in the game to make money.
How can o2 make any money by making a rom upgrade available to a new OS when they need to pay Microsoft for the OS and they cant make any more money as the unit is out of production.
I think the whole thing is silly. I have an atom exec that is still faster than many of the "new" mobile 6 devices with older processors but no officially upgrade option. I am not going to dump my perfectly good atom exec to something else for no reason but I want mobile 6.
What needs to happen, so everyone is happy and gets their $$ is that o2 should offer an upgrade service. I'd be happy to pay for an upgrade rom that way both O2 get their slice and Microsoft get their $ for the software.
*We should be pushing o2 to offer an upgrade service with a price tag to produce the new roms. Its never going to happen for free.* Microsoft don't give software away for free if you haven't noticed. It should be much cheaper than buying a new PDA with pretty much the same(or lower) specs as they haven't really moved in hardware they just keep moving buttons around.....
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Boy. HP used to do this before wm2k3se to wm5. How I wish it existed, then I didn't get to waste 5 mos of my life just to make the upgrade myself. BUT, the bottom line is much better with the new devices...
How much percentage of users really do flash their devices with the 'test' ROMs?
Just that the guy who quoted the above would know... the official wm5 ROM for the Atom really sucks!!!
Hello! to anyone who might read this
First off, let me tell you a tiny bit about myself (Bare with me here).
My name is Christian, I'm 19 and I'm an intern at an IT-section. I've been working here for a year already - Each year interns are to write two individual papers about different subjects. My last paper was a virtual Windows Server 2003 Server Park Environment for another company. This year my first paper is on Android.
My place of work supports other workplaces, such as schools, the hospital, social workers, basically everything. With next-gen phones and new OS' out - Naturally, we're upgrading. The question is what OS to go with. That's why I was asked to create a paper on Android, showing how a work-phone could be. Not all of the details have been planned out yet, but it goes something like this:
- Create a ROM with the necessary applications
- Strip the ROM of anything ..unnecessary (Could be anything, Gapps even).
- Choose/Develope a Launcher that can work pretty much out-of-the-box without having to customize too much.
That's pretty much all the information I've been given for now. I've been given a HTC Desire to 'play around with'. I've been told we're going to have a meeting about it soon. The reason I'm creating this thread is to give myself sort of a roadmap, I guess. And I'd love your opinions on how I can best do this, what I should base my ROM on and anything else you might think I need to know.
Peace.
It's a great idea for a workplace to go with android for employees given the ability to create more secure levels of access since it's based on linux. Also the ability to tailor the OS and UI to suite the needs of the business are something that's desired more and more these days. The downfalls you'll have to overcome are battery power (stripped down OS could nix that) and the fact that most companies will lean more towards Blackberry for two main reasons.
First is security, lets face it, Google is the internet for the most part and a lot of people fear the unknown such as where does their data go and what's done with it. Is it erased (securely)? Is it shared and what about data leaks?
Also, even though I love Android, for a business setting Blackberry has everything right. Android lacks in the 'push' area by a longshot and (from what I've seen) Blackberry supports more email protocals. Let's not forget when you're emailing all day or writing a paper a physical keyboard is more desired, a lot of Android phones lack that.
If the correct phones were chosen and (with a custom ROM and apps) the right measures were taken to address the push issue, plus maybe some sort of native encryption to ease security concerns - I think you could make a very valid argument to use Android phones for their employees. Android beats the othe OS types by a longshot, you just have to address those small but major issues.
Using Android as platform for devices inside an organization makes a lot of sense.
I disagree with KCRic about the superiority of BlackBerry on push and mail systems compatibility. Remember that BB requires you to use a secondary server to "translate" your Exchange, Notes, GroupWise or whatever you have to the devices.
Agree 100% in terms of the keyboard issue.
Something Android has on its side is that Google is the internet. Android was designed from the bottom up to be a "connected" platform. This means mobile devices with ample access to databases and hosted applications. If a business is still wondering if the data on the cloud is the solution, they may not be here on the next decade.
Believe me, you don't find many devices with VPN support, something that is already supported on most Android ROMs. Secure connections and a secure local storage can be easily achieved, the tools are already there.
Think also not only on phones but many other devices (tablets, kiosks, etc) that can benefit from this idea.
I think the major obstacle will be to convince the service provider to let your organization put customized ROMs on the devices. They will panic. Maybe if your agreement says that you provide the support. I already have to go through some of this (on a different initiative) and it is not easy.
KCRic was right about blackberry .... was. The Droid Pro puts that puppy to bed for good, I think. To the OP, your company needs to take back that desire and get ahold of a Droid pro for you. That'll be the (as of right now) best device for workplace use and give you the best launch-off point.
Sent from my DROIDX using XDA App
Thank you gentlemen, I appreciate your input!
My company will most likely be standardizing on the Desire Z as the 'top notch' phone - And some sort of first level entry phone for employees that don't need aweesomesauce features. I've begun dissecting my own ROM using dsiXDA's kitchen. If my company is going to settle on Android as a platform I will have to build the ROM from source, though. Seeing as when I'm finished with my internship someone else will have to continue development on the ROM.
Right now I'm going to dissect a couple of ROMS. My place of work wants to see which of the two fits best for us: AOSP or Sense. I'm an AOSP man myself but Sense is easier to use for 'newbies' and it's also easier to configure too look-and-work-just-like-this, if that makes sense. THANKFULLY dxiXDA's kitchen exists so the workload isn't .. ****ty just yet.
Again, thank you for your input!
zHk3R said:
Thank you gentlemen, I appreciate your input!
My company will most likely be standardizing on the Desire Z as the 'top notch' phone - And some sort of first level entry phone for employees that don't need aweesomesauce features. I've begun dissecting my own ROM using dsiXDA's kitchen. If my company is going to settle on Android as a platform I will have to build the ROM from source, though. Seeing as when I'm finished with my internship someone else will have to continue development on the ROM.
Right now I'm going to dissect a couple of ROMS. My place of work wants to see which of the two fits best for us: AOSP or Sense. I'm an AOSP man myself but Sense is easier to use for 'newbies' and it's also easier to configure too look-and-work-just-like-this, if that makes sense. THANKFULLY dxiXDA's kitchen exists so the workload isn't .. ****ty just yet.
Again, thank you for your input!
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Click to collapse
If you don't want the employees messing around with their phones, I'd definately exclude the Market app (Vending.apk) and include the apps of which you believe they are necessary. There's just to much crap in the market and even if it isn't meant to damage your phone, it still can do some damage if you put too much apps with the same functions on it. Experience? Yes, with my X10. The thing was damn slow until I removed a whole bunch of apps.
The thread that Adam and others are using for development level conversations about the unlocking of the bootloader is awesome, but it goes over the head of many of us enthusiastic noobs.
This thread is so that we can try and move our questions and confusion to here so as to un-clog the other thread.
It looks like the only way to bypass the bootloader we have seen so far, is to perform a hardware mod. After the hardware mod, we should be able to boot from SD or reinstall the ROM.
Discuss!
If i first get to have the chip from outside USA i surely will go for it, if its totally worthy.
Really, for me, it depends on just how involved the hardware mod is---whether it requires soldering and such.
Sent from my rooted Nook Tablet using Tapatalk 8)
I wouldn't mind doing it myself, no matter the level of difficulty. Also a send-in service by some 3rd party company (N2A comes to mind). We'll see what the success rate is, and what can be done.
I already opted for $50 more than the KF, then another $40 for a 32gb sd card... i cant see spending even mor eto buy the mod chip. At that point, i shouldve bought a better tablet.
I'll wait on a software bypass, it'll get here eventually.
Plus, i have no interest in linux. I doubt i even need ICS, but if it comes and its free... why not?
From what I have read so far the hardware mod would not be challenging or expensive. Two screws and 4 solder points. According to Adam the chip is only $3 USD, and I would assume that it could be programed with a printer port.
I already opted for $50 more than the KF, then another $40 for a 32gb sd card... i cant see spending even mor eto buy the mod chip. At that point, i shouldve bought a better tablet.
I'll wait on a software bypass, it'll get here eventually.
Plus, i have no interest in linux. I doubt i even need ICS, but if it comes and its free... why not?
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I think the cost of the SD is irrelevant. You would have to do this with any tablet, and if your comparing to the KF then this one section of your argument is even more so invalid.
The mod chip also looks like it will be very inexpensive.
EDIT: I highly doubt ICS will be released for our tablets by B&N ever... So we will be waiting for someone like the CM team to get it working for us.
The hardware mod interests me even if solely as a way to learn a bit about embedded security. I do find it unsettling that I can't install linux on my linux computer.
I don't want to be dependent on having a boot sdcard installed at all times. A hardware modification is good ONLY if it leads to PERMANENTLY disabling the anti-hack mechanism so that the hardware modification doesn't have to be performed again every time the device is booted up.
I would accept precisely this;
Plug in some device,
Boot on sdcard,
Modify the secure boot process WITHIN DEVICE STORAGE (not within RAM),
Remove device,
Store on shelf until it is needed for another hacking project.
There are multiple options for modification of the secure boot process, in particular, replacing the signing keys stored on the device allowing us to use OUR OWN signing key to satisfy the secure boot process. Another option is to eliminate the signature check. I believe that the former will be simpler since it is just a DATA modification rather than reverse engineering.
I wonder if the hardware has an equivalent of "S-OFF" that HTC phones have? As I recall, on most HTC phones, there is a ONE BYTE EDIT that has to be made within one partition of the eMMC to TOTALLY disable all of the device's bootloader sig checks and hardware write protect. The issue was that the partition in question would be hardware write protected. Presumably, with the hardware modification for NT, a similar state *should* be achievable.
The_Joe said:
Would you hardware mod your NT?
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Absolutely not!
I also wouldn't because you never will get your in the same condition as it was before you opened it and everybody can see that you did something to the device. You also don't have warranty anymore after that process.
Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk
Pete1612 said:
I also wouldn't because you never will get your in the same condition as it was before you opened it and everybody can see that you did something to the device. You also don't have warranty anymore after that process.
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Whaaaaa???
Unlike you, most intelligent people will select jeweler's tools to open something like this rather than a crowbar and a sledgehammer.
Further, most people would actually perform the modification using a temperature controlled and grounded soldering iron, rather than an acetylene torch, thus no damage caused even internally.
As far as warranty goes, it is EASY to restore it to factory condition, unless you use the Neanderthal approach to hardware modification, in which case warranty provision is determined by YOUR HONESTY to only warranty it for something that YOU DID NOT CAUSE (in which case there is no morality issue to be worried over).
I also wouldn't because you never will get your in the same condition as it was before you opened it and everybody can see that you did something to the device. You also don't have warranty anymore after that process.
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Soldering is not that big a deal once you have developed the touch. I am fairly certain that I could solder the four wires required for this chip and then later un-solder them and no one would be able to tell.
It's a great device regardless of installing a ROM. I just rooted it and installed the gapps and OTA block. I still have all the B&N stuff and everything work fine. I have all the apps loaded I want (that make sense without gps and 3g) and I WOULD hardware modify this puppy in a heartbeat to get back what I have if B&N happens to force an OTA through that took away root.
I have been having a lot of fun trying lots of different apps and schemes. The hardware mod is easy and I have already taken it apart and looked at where the soldering goes and it is back together without a hitch.
Big hand to the devs who are doing their thing so we can do ours.
Bill
Oh yes, I'm sure he had a rock and mallet in mind for the modification. How neanderthal of him to suggest that hardware modification is well out of his, and many other's, reach.
It's easy to unroot. I doubt physically messing around with the internals using any manner of ultra sophisticated museum art thief tools will leave behind changes that are unnoticeable.
Duely blundered from my thunderdolt
I would do it just to do it. I am one of those guys that just like to mod stuff for the hell of it. No, I'm not very good at creating any of the mods, but if it will make my experience better and it's not rocket surgery, I'm game.
As for the warranty issue and opening up the case, it really doesn't look like its that big of a deal. I am guessing that with a set of precision screwdrivers and a guitar pick it can be opened simply and be very nearly undetectable. Besides, if I am going to open it and solder it, I am not worried about the warranty anyway. If someone IS worried about it, then they shouldn't be doing anything that will void it.
JM2C
I just don't get this nonsense. I get why companies are screwing this all up but what I don't get is why we all continue to allow this. The Android update process is broken and there have been a flood of articles on the net talking about the subject. Not one that I have read has come even close to the right solution. Really testing what little faith I have left in the human race. Why so dramatic? Because we have been using the model for our Windows PC for years and yet in somebody's great wisdom chose what we have here and now. Cmon!
Could you imagine getting your Windows PC updates from Time Warner Cable? What a disaster that would be right? What do you think would happen with our PC updates? Exactly what we are dealing with right now on Android. I just don't see what the problem is. Google develops and distributes the OS and updates directly to the end user. The phone manufacturer supplies the appropriate drivers on their website and the carrier keeps their greasy mitts off my phone. Win win for everyone.
I posted this because I think its the best solution. Its better than what we have now that's for sure. What I'm hoping to get out of this post is that you either agree with me or you have a better solution we can all get behind and push for. I know the Windows way isn't perfect and some things will have to be done differently but we don't need to be concerned with all the details. In other words for Example.....Dear Verizon, Samsung, Google. This is how we want out updates. Just get it done and deal with it.
Full Disclosure: Yeah I'm posting this because I'm pretty heated this hasn't been seriously addressed yet. I'm heated more people aren't pushing for more of a Windows update process. I'm heated because I bought a Galaxy Nexus this time around to avoid this and still getting screwed. I'm heated because All my phones have greater potential and we are proving it here at XDA everyday.
One more thought. We really shouldn't be buying our hardware from the carriers either. All any of them have proven so far is that they can run a pretty stable dumb pipe. Every other venture has failed. Like Vcast. I just dont trust them with what may soon replace my wallet among many other things. It could very well be our most personal possessions in these times and they control every aspect we allow them to. It needs to stop. What do you think? Do you want the windows way? Or do you have a better idea?
Long term there are definitely some issues that need to be fixed with Android.
Bloatware is one of the things that annoys me, and judging from the reviews left on Google Play, it annoys everybody. I'm fine with them preinstalling crap on my phone even though I don't like it, PC OEMs have been doing this for years. But it should be completely uninstallable without root.
For OS updates I see no reason why minor versions (ex: 2.3.6 to 2.3.7) can't be distributed from Google to all phones. These updates shouldn't affect drivers and would be similar to Windows Updates. But more people are concerned with major version updates which can't be done this way as they involve driver and/or kernel updates.
Google has a very hands off policy when it comes to Android it seems. OEMs are given a lot of freedom and Google doesn't do much to help them bring updates quickly. This hands off approach may have been a good business model in the early days of Android when Google just wanted to get it out there by any means possible, but I think they need to be more involved now. They should allow OEMs in on development earlier by giving them access to early builds of the next version similar to how Microsoft does. The reason PC OEMs get the newest version on their systems so quickly is because OEMs and hardware manufacturers get to use betas even before the public can. This model may not work on Android, but I really think Google needs to reassess their stance on Android, its not 2009 anymore.
This sort of issues with android is holding back...a lot of companies like presonus (pro audio) dont even bother with developing controlling software for their hardware on android...
Its a shame because we have some very capable hardware but ať least with apple **** they do the work once and it works...
If they were to make applications and have to deal with different hardware and screen resolutions they wouldnt have time to do their job..
A shame that oné day i might have to buy an iPad because of them
the long and short of it is no, at the moment they cant. Windows works because it is a modular kernel which allows for drivers to be installed and therefore easy customisations to be made. Linux is a monolithic kernel which means it needs all drivers for all configurations of hardware in it and then it uses the ones it needs. Android uses the linux kernel so it is difficult to support all the different kinds of hardware on phones in one kernel without it getting huge and hard to manage.
That is before you get to the need to have basebands/amss working with the kernel to provide mobile phone connection and hardware management. You also need bootloaders, recovery consoles etc to work on every phone. Only once those components are in place can you start to talk about keeping the android system up to date on top of those.
Google can't do it all unless they start over and make tools that are compatible with all kinds of hardware.
The easiest way is probably to make a google certification requirement that all manufacturers must support phones through 2-3 major update cycles. That does mean the end of cheap phones and lots of different and smaller niche products though.
Personally I think that the new hardware requirements for ICS are going to mean the end of ldpi and maybe even mdpi android phones as well as anything without a gpu, less than 512mb of ram and a 1ghz or so cpu. Maybe once the hardware becomes a bit more uniform, it will start to get easier to keep up to date too.
Please use the Q&A Forum for questions &
Read the Forum Rules Ref Posting
Moving to Q&A
Hi,
with all media attention related to NSA spy activities.
How does one know this all happening here is not related to NSA activities?
If i'm correct the bloatware a provider installs when you bought it gives nsa access or gives provider unwanted access.
Maybe i'm thinking too much, but even NSA could bring out a rom which looks great and so and you think it's save and not accessing your private details, mic or camera.
Just a thought i had.
(on duckduckgo.com there was this advertising for save internet and cyanomod, thatss how i came here)
Thanks !
Have you been abusing ice or something ?
haha no, just curious that's all. As you know google ain't clean either in terms of privacy. And Android is Google.....
But no, i like what's happening here, it was just a thought.
Alright...
Intelligence agencies can already essentially look at whatever they want whenever they want via direct access to all networks. They can break a lot of encryption. Most operating systems (whether phone/PC/whatever) either have some NSA designed bits (I.E SELinux) or 'backdoors' which enable them to access even the most tightly 'locked up' systems.
I very much doubt they need to release a bit of 'crapware' or an OS of their own given the above. Though I can imagine in certain cases they custom design an exploit for a particular individual or organisation they want keep tabs on, but I can't imagine they'd want to do it to ordinary phone users en masse in the manner you suggested.
They already 'passively' surveil just about everyone (I.E collect all data but tend not to look at it unless they need to), so they don't need to do what you mentioned.
In my view opensource system has an advantage that you can check the source code yourself for a potential backdoor.
Most of the ROMs here are opensource so you can download, check, compile and install.
However you do not have 100% opensource devices - you have for example radio drivers which we just trust they will send data to correct receiver and in correct format...
I don't think it is proven SELINUX introduces backdoor or was it? If yes, I'm very interested to see it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Security-Enhanced_Linux. Everything is backdoored.
MistahBungle said:
Alright...
Intelligence agencies can already essentially look at whatever they want whenever they want via direct access to all networks. They can break a lot of encryption. Most operating systems (whether phone/PC/whatever) either have some NSA designed bits (I.E SELinux) or 'backdoors' which enable them to access even the most tightly 'locked up' systems.
I very much doubt they need to release a bit of 'crapware' or an OS of their own given the above. Though I can imagine in certain cases they custom design an exploit for a particular individual or organisation they want keep tabs on, but I can't imagine they'd want to do it to ordinary phone users en masse in the manner you suggested.
They already 'passively' surveil just about everyone (I.E collect all data but tend not to look at it unless they need to), so they don't need to do what you mentioned.
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yes you're right. it totaaly agree.
thanks a lot for your answer.
MistahBungle said:
Everything is backdoored.
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I checked Wikipedia SELinux Entry. I remember Linus's nodding, however there is no hint it was with relation of SELinux.
I found another discussion on this topic and I agree with the point that "It would be singularly dumb of them to inject backdoors in their own name."
Time will show.
Anyway - if you do not trust it, you can turn it off completely or use an alternative - AppArmor - which does not come from NSA.