samsung fascinate Best Kernal - Fascinate Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting

can any one tell me which one is best kernal for battery saving and best performance? i am new here :\

I would say Devil Kernel for ICS.

I've used both glitch(stock with AOKP releases) and devil(courtesy of Der teufel 1980 and Steven spears) had some battery drain issues with an older build of devil but I think they have it fixed now. Glitch gives great battery but limited on features vs. Devil.
Sent from my Fascinate Unicorn Glitched up M6-style.

Another vote for devil, it's been fantastic so far.

I'm currently using a Devil Kernel

Another vote for devil as well, for both ics, and jelly bean

newest devil (1.2.1) is working great on JB for me
Anyone have a preference of MCM vs VC?

I'm new to this whole game too, so my ability (or more importantly, confidence) to try out a bunch of stuff is limited at the moment. I've tried Glitch and Devil, both having came with AOKP's ROMs of ICS (Build 39, and now Milestone 6)
There were some issues with Glitch and GPS, but otherwise it seemed alright. Devil isn't too bad overall, though with the version that came with Mile6, there is the strange issue of not being able to power the phone on from being off AND while charging. If it's dead, that means having to wait a few mins to get even a small charge so it'll just power on, but then I can plug back in. A minor inconvenience really, especially since GPS works much nicer.
I don't use the Fassy as a phone though, just a media player, so I can't comment on any issues there between the two.
What I can say: If you listen to music make sure whatever kernel you pick, if it's not Devil or Glitch, make sure it has Voodoo Sound code in it!! Good lord do the Galaxy S1 phones sound awesome! O_O

Related

Oh no... not another "what's the best ROM" question...

This one is a little different though. I am on a MIUI ROM, and have been for many months. Next month the Galaxy II is coming out for t-mobile, and I will be upgrading. And that means my wife gets the vibrant. Which means this phone "just has to work". As much as I love MIUI and cyanogen, being at the tip of the spear means having to put up with some things that just don't work like they are supposed to. Like GPS and battery life to name two. Stock would be an option, but if I recall, stock sucked on battery life AND GPS, correct?
So, what is the best ROM nowadays for stability (including GPS) and battery life? It has been so long that I have had a froyo ROM on my phone that I really don't know who is at the top now.
Oh, and by "best ROM", I should have said "best ROM & kernel combination".
the Bionix ROMs are pretty stable for the most part (though they're not really supported on xda anymore). http://sourceforge.net/projects/bionix-v/files/
I suggest trying ZenDroid. It's one of the very few froyo roms still updated and supported. Has all the newest build.prop tweaks, gps works perfect for me, has great battery life, and it's as stable as they come.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1079517
EDIT: Ah yes, forgot about the DMZ kernel. Thanks to Mdtolic below for bringing that up. I have to agree with him about the ZenDroid/DMZ kernel combo.
Sent from my ZenDroid using XDA Premium App
I've been on MIUI for a week or so now, and GPS has worked perfectly on several trips around the area. In fact, it's working better than when I was using a Froyo ROM. Battery life is still good as long as you do a reasonable undervolt and use Titanium Backup to freeze useless battery hogging software (Gallery, replaced with Quickpic, Maps if you don't use navigation, etc)
Still, if you want rock solid stable with great battery life, try Toxic8 with KB5 modem and Bali X 1.2 kernel. Once you set everything up for her along with a theme she likes, you'll never have to tweak it again.
Be warned though. As far as smoothness is concerned, nothing compares to MIUI. At least in my experience.
Jcc's toxic roms are awesome. Everything works as it should and he has a new rom(deranged 9) cookin now!
Sent from xda premium using ToXiC 8
I have come to learn that "the best" ROM/Kernel combo for one phone, may not be the best combo for any other phone.
For me, ZenDroid is perfect. To get the best battery life I use the SuperDragonModz kernel. ZenDroid comes with Bali UC and I think that works great for most folks.
ZD has an AOSP theme too; in case your wife would prefer a "clean" Android look.
That Ultimate 2.2.1 rom is fairly awesome. It is smooth, fast and good looking. Works perfectly with the ffc mod. Has decent battery life and the GPS will connect in mere seconds (9 of 11 birds, 20 ft after about a minute or two). Keep in mind I did the hardware fix posted here. It is my top choice going back to froyo coming from a variety of gb roms.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
Project-V with Bali-X 1.2
By far the best 2.2 ROM I've used!
Danielpc said:
That Ultimate 2.2.1 rom is fairly awesome. It is smooth, fast and good looking. Works perfectly with the ffc mod. Has decent battery life and the GPS will connect in mere seconds (9 of 11 birds, 20 ft after about a minute or two). Keep in mind I did the hardware fix posted here. It is my top choice going back to froyo coming from a variety of gb roms.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
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+1 to this

[Q] Best Thunderbolt Rom

Now I know this is largely an opinion based question but figured I'd get some good feedback. I am a former incredible owner and with the incredible I had MANY choices of ROMs that were all fast, great battery improvements and completely stable. I was a huge fan of CM7 on the incredible. I finally just rooted my Thunderbolt and am looking for the same. I just want a ROM that is stable, decent speed and with better battery life. So far I flashed a sense 3.5 ROM (InfectedROM) and it is has many bugs, little bit better battery and actually feels slower than stock. CM7 says it is still in beta so I have been reluctant to try it. Does anybody have any advice on the most solid ROM out there for the Thunderbolt? Thank you
sec5197 said:
Now I know this is largely an opinion based question but figured I'd get some good feedback. I am a former incredible owner and with the incredible I had MANY choices of ROMs that were all fast, great battery improvements and completely stable. I was a huge fan of CM7 on the incredible. I finally just rooted my Thunderbolt and am looking for the same. I just want a ROM that is stable, decent speed and with better battery life. So far I flashed a sense 3.5 ROM (InfectedROM) and it is has many bugs, little bit better battery and actually feels slower than stock. CM7 says it is still in beta so I have been reluctant to try it. Does anybody have any advice on the most solid ROM out there for the Thunderbolt? Thank you
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Any BAMF ROM. They are almost completely bug free, smooth, and offer better battery life over stock. CM7, even though it's not officially supported yet, doesn't have too many bugs. The battery life, in my opinion, just doesn't match up to Sense ROMs.
One piece of advice I'll give you for better battery life. Don't overclock. It just isn't necessary. The phone is fast enough at 1GHz, and you won't see too much of a change overclocking, just worse battery life. (Benchmark scores are meaningless. They do not reflect every day performance)
What kind of mAh drain do you experience on bamf roms? I stay between 15-25 on CM7 with the screen off and peak between 150-350 with screen on. BT is always on, as well as GPS. (Never use wifi, so can't speak on that) Oh, and I just Juice defender, before JD I would average 35-40. Sync mail with imap every 15 and exchange on push. Underclocked with screen off to 360 and run 1024 with screen on. I don't OC unless I'm plugged in. Then its only 1209.
I'll also cast a vot for Team BAMF. I am on BAMF forever 1.10 and I flashed the devs beta 3++ kernel build after because I saw a bit of lag with the stock kernel. You absolutely need to remember to wipe before flashing the rom, though. I neglected to and the lockscreen didn't even work.
Sent from my BAMF Forever TBolt using Tapatalk
I never dropped below 30% battery using bamf in months, I'm a huge fan. It took a lot for me to drain it down low.
Sent from my ADR6400L using XDA App
I vote BAMF SoaB. But I'm biased.
Sent from my Cyanogen Touchpad.
Never had any problems with CM7 via protekk's builds. Run fast and smooth, and get great battery life. Plus it's clean so I don't have to worry about washing my hands after using it
Skyraider 1.3. Gives the best balance of htc sense functionality, battery life, customizations, and speed. I would stay away from sense 3.0 and 3.5 roms. They initially seem smooth; however in everyday use they will lag on you. The phone is just not designed for 3.0/3.5 sense. The 2.1/3.0 hybrid roms work well which is what the skyraider 1.3 rom is. If you don't like sense, then run CM 7.1.1 or Liquid Smooth 3.2. The non-sense roms will be a little faster, but I like the widgets that come with sense.
Update: Forgot MIUI rom. Very nice if you like the apple-esk look and feel. Very smooth.
BAMF forever 1.1
How do i find the BAMF forever 1.1 rom. When I use ROM mamanger I only see 1.0.5
Another vote for SkyRaider Zeus 1.3.
Near perfect for me.
Miui tons of customization very good batt life and very smooth
Sent from my HTC Mecha using XDA App
BAMF roms are probably the most stable roms and I tried most of them already I even bricked my phone a couple of times trying all the roms and so far I'm sticking with this ROM called thunder stick 3d
I've tried Bamf Forever, SkyRaider, SoaB, MIUI and Gingeritis 3D.
My vote out of all 3 is Gingeritis! Battery life has been a ton better than the Bamf roms and MIUI I only liked on my Droid X. Wasn't a fan on my T'Bolt.
Liquid Gingerbread 3.2
Liquid's AOSP 3.2 is by far the best rom I've used, it's based on CM7, which is technically still a beta, but I think that's just because the official support on the CM website is slated for CM9, I have no issues with Liquid 3.2 and I tend to be picky about dealing with bugs, and battery life is good the way it comes, better than Sense based roms, and you can configure the kernel for batterysaver which makes it even better.
[ROM-STOCK-605.9] iKReaM.What.Thee.ROM.605.9-R3Ds this rom is legit but if someone could tell me what that clock is and how get it i would greatly appreciate it
I used CM7.1 most of the time but switch to a BAMF Sense 3.0 ROM on Thursday nights (and sometimes Sunday and Monday night) to watch NFL Mobile. They are both nice, but Sense 3.0 has some stupid issues, like lack of landscape mode, lower volume by default, dodgy Bluetooth support, etc, it's enough to make you want to get rid of it.
I have th3oryrom - ics
I vote for th3ory, i like that it is non htc sense. And this one is a ics look/feel rom. This is a link to dhacker29's rom (http://th3oryrom.com/ROMS/SHIFTAO5P_IC3.2.1.zip );and although it is 2.3.7 android it still seems like you're using ics. the only bug i have found is flash keeps crapping out. there's a thread i found (non t-bolt related) that i found where going to adjust (remove all) permissions fixes this but which folder i do not remember.
You won't get many votes for this b/c the developer isn't going to update it (at least i don't think) b/c they have moved on to another phone.
EDIT: i did a search for you if you're inclined to dnld this rom. in the Q&A bolt forum there is one i located that path on your phone you may need to find using root explorer to run flash. "/data/data/com.android.browser/app_plugins/com.adobe.flashplayer/.macromedia/Flash_Player/config.data" after this path go to permissions on this file and deselect all check marks.
Google Music
it is an awesome rom but since CLEAN flashing this rom, ive had issues streaming my music from google, it sucks, i read other people having this problem as well so i tried the various fixes i found and to no avail, its a deal breaker for me cuz i wanna listen to the music i paid for. im gonna try SHIFT AO5P n see if it produces some positive results, if not, im going back to INFECTEDROM. I WANT MY GOOGLE MUSICCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCC!!!
~DiazKyubi~
movielover76 said:
Liquid's AOSP 3.2 is by far the best rom I've used, it's based on CM7, which is technically still a beta, but I think that's just because the official support on the CM website is slated for CM9, I have no issues with Liquid 3.2 and I tend to be picky about dealing with bugs, and battery life is good the way it comes, better than Sense based roms, and you can configure the kernel for batterysaver which makes it even better.
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Click to collapse

What ICS roms are compatible with HDMI dongle?

^ Title
What ICS roms are fully compatible with the HDMI dongle? I'm using AOKP and it's only partially compatible. Is there any known software workaround other than using a Sense rom?
Which Sense roms are safe? Is it safe to flash the latest UCLD4 leak and then immediately load the NEAK kernel?
Thanks!
EDIT: Also, is there a list of what's known to work/display over the HDMI dongle in AOSP roms?
What Sense roms are you talking about?
All of the Samsung ICS Roms should work.
I'm pretty new to the GS2, I got my phone only about 3 weeks ago and immediately flashed Task's rom based on a recommendation. I have never used any other ICS rom and thus have no experience with them.
I read this thread: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1532368
I assumed that any rom that had the Sense framework removed would have similar issues with HDMI out since so much of Samsung's stuff seems to rely on that. Those roms listed as "Ice Cream Sandwich" roms are all based on Samsung code? Do any of them have the Sense framework or has it been removed? Will HDMI out work anyway?
Thanks!
Eckyx said:
I'm pretty new to the GS2, I got my phone only about 3 weeks ago and immediately flashed Task's rom based on a recommendation. I have never used any other ICS rom and thus have no experience with them.
I read this thread: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1532368
I assumed that any rom that had the Sense framework removed would have similar issues with HDMI out since so much of Samsung's stuff seems to rely on that. Those roms listed as "Ice Cream Sandwich" roms are all based on Samsung code? Do any of them have the Sense framework or has it been removed? Will HDMI out work anyway?
Thanks!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just a FYI Samsung uses touchwiz. Sense is HTC's creation. CM9 and AOKP are the 2 AOSP (no touchwiz) based ROMs and anything based off them as well. The remaining ROMs are Samsung touchwiz based. I don't have the mhl adapter so I don't know which works and which doesn't.
Sent from my SGH-I777 using xda premium
Herpderp. Touchwiz.
Alright, thanks! Any particular favorites among the other ROMs? Which are regarded as the most complete/stable? Ultimatum seems to be the most recently updated/released of the lot.
I'm a fan of SHOstock when using TouchWiz ROMs. It looks more and more like AOKP at each update. Like a specific set of AOKP customizations hard baked in.
That is the only TW ICS ROM I have used in a long time. I can confirm MHL works perfect in that ROM. It should would in any TW based ROM fine. I ran an early version of Mystics Pride (ported from i9100) and MHL worked fine there too.
The easiest way to tell the difference is the build codes. If it says its based on XWLP3, or similar it should do MHL fine. Everything but CM9 or AOKP *should* have fully working MHL, Gingerbread and ICS.
Sent from my Galaxy S II (i777)
Thanks! I'll give SHOstock a try then!
How is responsiveness/battery with compared to AOKP? I'm currently sitting at 96% with 5 hours off charge, 30 minutes of screen-on and wifi enabled.
EDIT: Do I need mic swap or not in SHOstock?
EDIT2: Found it myself ^
Its great as far as responsiveness. Battery life feels the same. I have never really paid close attention to battery life.
Sent from my Galaxy S II (i777)
Yeah I used to care more about battery life. At one point I even used task managers. Then I realized I was spending more time trying to get my battery to last longer that I wasn't enjoying the phone. So now I just ....use it.
Sent from my SGH-I777 using xda premium
I haven't tried the dongle with AOKP, but the D4 modem is working great for me. Depending on my location in central Texas, my download speeds have doubled.
My experiences so far with SHOstock vs AOKP, both using the same N.E.A.K. kernel, same modem, same launcher and apps installed"
(-)
SHOstock seems like it might have an aggressive task killer, I played with it for a bit, hitting "home" in Words With Friends, and it had to reload the app sometimes. Quite annoying, sleeping apps don't seem to do any harm to smoothness or battery life in AOKP.
(-)
Had a weird bug where the phone occasionally would get super-slow for a few minutes and then smooth back out, when I was sitting on the homescreen. Happened three times within the first hour of installing the rom but it seems to have quit now that it has "settled in".
(-)
No digital clock. I really like that widget! Stole the one out of AOKP and used it.
(-)
No stock ICS calendar widget! Still trying to figure out what it's contained in.
(-)
No brightness slider! Button toggle sucks. Also, minimum brightness seems to be higher and there's no native way to adjust what the brightness levels are. =/
(-)
Acuweather daemon - I could remove it I suppose. Why would I want this? Apps can fetch weather themselves.
(-)
No contacts in dialer.
(-)
No USB mass storage.
(-)
Samsung task mgr widget is broken - always says "0 running apps".
(-)
In general, SHOstock seems to always use a LOT more ram. Something like ~400MB typical usage vs 250MB on AOKP. The OS is also twice as large, download is 220MB vs 120MB. I don't know if the higher ram usage is good or bad in this case - I don't mind apps being pre-fetched and left in ram, it saves battery relative to having to load them off of flash every time I want to use them... but it seems this isn't the case here as I was experiencing a lot of background apps being killed or slow to reopen.
(-)
OS makes loudy clicky noises. Dunno how to get rid of them.
Some things SHOstock has going for it over AOKP:
(+)
Button brightness works as intended by Samsung. Touch the screen and the capacitive buttons light up and go dark again like they should, and apps like Screenfilter can properly make the buttons dark. In AOKP, button lights are either on or off, and the toggle is hidden several menus back.
(+)
Typing seems less buggy, I was having an issue in AOKP where (especially when using landscape keyboard) the text would go offscreen, such as when typing a post. I don't have this issue using SHOstock.
(+)
Touchscreen sensitivity is more pleasing somehow, I'd like to know what settings are used. Haptic feedback also feels different - more subtle.
(+)
Even with higher ram usage, all else being the same, the UI seems to scroll a hair more smoothly. It's a bit odd, in that the UI feels heavier but also tends to be more smooth.
As much as I like the MHL, I don't think I'm going to stick with SHOstock. I'll try some more roms before going back to AOKP, but I might just end up back on AOKP.
AOKP & CM9 and their derivatives *do not* have fully working MHL support. It's being worked on, but nothing yet (TvOut.apk is very buggy ands hows frames rather than a live view) (personal ROM preference in this category - AOKP)
TouchWiz-based (Samsung) Gingerbread and ICS ROMs *do* have working MHL. (personal ROM preference in this category - SHOstock2)
After reading this I assume that the stock ICS roms from Sammimobile, when Hellraised will have HDMI out. Any experience with this or comments?
Sounds correct, Sammy roms have support for hdmi out
Sent from my SGH-I777 using xda premium

[Q] please share your 4.x Daily Driver ROM

Looking to Flash a ROM for the first time on my Atrix. I want a ROM based off of either ICS or JellyBean (ie, 4.x).
I don't want to test out unstable ROMs. I only have one smartphone, so it needs to be reliable. Are there any 4.x ROMs that are stable enough for daily use? If there isn't, please tell me that.
Requirements:
Reboots no more than 1, maybe 2 times a day
4.x build
all hardware works, except for these things which I don't care about: fingerprint reader, laptop dock
Nice to have: in-car mode.
AtrICS looks nice, (video works, fingerprint reader works) - but lots of posters are saying it reboots on them.
They all have the same problem since they use the same kernel.
- They all have the reboot problems
- Camera has fuzzy lines on the Blur based ROMs (can be easily fixed by turning widescreen mode on/off)
I'm currently on Someone's CM10 and I think that it can be a great daily driver (I don't use my Atrix to call/ SMS anymore though, so I can't really tell) and it doesn't have fingerprint scanner and web top (both of which you don't care).
And as I typed this, my phone rebooted.
Sent from that Atrix.
Even I'm in the same boat. Been on CM7 since ages.. waiting for a stable release before jumping the wagon.
Hopefully, epinter or jokersaxx will adopt the new libs and new stuff to their mods and we will get a new ICS/JB daily driver.
Im using miui 2.10.12 by thebill currently and no reboots. I dont play games dont use lapdock or fingerprint. Only bad thing for me not working buttons backlight
Sent from my MB860 using xda premium
Your choices are the unstable ones with poor battery life based on the leak with everything working or the ones not based on the leak which are stable with good battery but no camcorder and flakey hw acceleration. Pick your poison.
Hopefully the project to port the Xoom kernel goes somewhere and we have something more solid, but until then if you want something flawless you should stick with gingerbread.
Since your new to custom ROMs, I highly recommend you check out mrom. Its based on cm7/Gingerbread, and the best non-4.x ROM for the atrix. Coming from stock I think you'll find it a noticeable improvement in terms of performance.
Sent from my #motofail. No ICS for 2011 AT&T flagship? #boycottmoto
This is good info guys, thanks, MROM looks really interesting. I guess I'll unlock my bootloader now,
Just started this game too. I need a daily driver for my only phone to use for business and personal. I don't use fingerprint or laptop (except as a charging base/alarm clock stand). Although I would love to be able to use the laptop again someday. This my opinion based on limited experience with the following ROMs. This is in no way a knock on any of the fantastic work the Dev's have put in any ROMs, merely my experience.
IMHO
Somebody's- great JB ROM but too many random reboots and to short a battery life for a daily driver on my only phone, chrome works because hardware acceleration works. ROM didn't work for me but I really wanted it to because it was sweet!
Cyanogen 7 Stable- Rock solid, great battery life, dependable but not much different than stock except for the ability to play with root access, firewalls etc. I know iti's not 4.x... but as a daily driver it's fantastic work
Epinters - Wow! JB, video chat, battery life in the 8-9 hours with daily use for email, phone, music, text, light internet and gmaps (result may vary), no random reboots... no chrome due to lack of hardware acceleration (i think, but may be wrong here). Overall his was the best for my circumstances. Of course mileage may very depending on your phone, mine is USA, ATT with apparently the right tegra part. I have been running it for 2-3 weeks and keep coming back to it for a daily driver.
AtrICS - too many random reboots but another great JB ROM, really wanted this one to work too
My opinion - Epinter's http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1781970 works for me. I am very happy I unlocked/rooted and started playing this game.

[Q] Most stable release with modern features?

What is overall the most stable rom that actually has up to date android features? I was reading the CM10 issues log and stuff like "can't receive calls when bluetooth is on" is just an instant turnoff. I know every custom ROM is going to have issues, but what is overall the best balance of modern and stable for the Droid X2?
I'd like at least 4.1, but I know the world isn't perfect.
Well since we are sadly on a locked bootloader it makes it difficult for us; The most stable roms are Gingerbread. CM7 is pretty good and is running android 2.3.6 i believe. Eclipse is pretty good and smooth but cm7 has overall more features. CM10 would probably more stable than cm9 but cm10 sadly gets some force closes(i never experienced this when i was using it )
MotM said:
What is overall the most stable rom that actually has up to date android features? I was reading the CM10 issues log and stuff like "can't receive calls when bluetooth is on" is just an instant turnoff. I know every custom ROM is going to have issues, but what is overall the best balance of modern and stable for the Droid X2?
I'd like at least 4.1, but I know the world isn't perfect.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
4.1 is the furthest we have gotten. cm10 is 4.1 , cm9 is 4.0 . cm10 is WAY more stable than any ICS build we have. i use it as a daily, and if you dont use many apps, and can stand a bit less battery life, it is totally worth it.
it has curbed my want/need for a new phone.....or atleast until november!
MotM said:
What is overall the most stable rom that actually has up to date android features? I was reading the CM10 issues log and stuff like "can't receive calls when bluetooth is on" is just an instant turnoff. I know every custom ROM is going to have issues, but what is overall the best balance of modern and stable for the Droid X2?
I'd like at least 4.1, but I know the world isn't perfect.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I started using MIUI last night is sorta like iOS and and it uses ICS framework havent had a fc or random reboot yet no missed calls to my knowledge
I used the CM10a3 port and my gmail app was WICKED unstable, a flick scroll would not FC it but it would just close. I LOVED google now but due to compatibility*? issues i could not update it with anything google released. I currently run eclipse, although older has been the most stable, battery efficient, and usable rom on my DX2.
.02
You know, with all the apps, launchers, keyboards, themes, etc., you can probably be pretty happy with a stable gingerbread ROM and make it look and feel like ICS or JB.
I'd run cm7 with holo launcher for that jb feel
Lorenzo VonMatterhorn said:
4.1 is the furthest we have gotten. cm10 is 4.1 , cm9 is 4.0 . cm10 is WAY more stable than any ICS build we have. i use it as a daily, and if you dont use many apps, and can stand a bit less battery life, it is totally worth it.
it has curbed my want/need for a new phone.....or atleast until november!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What version of CM10 are you using? I'm debating if it is worth trying A3
Simpsons11 said:
What version of CM10 are you using? I'm debating if it is worth trying A3
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
at this point, i have been using cm9 for a few months due to the phone call issue present in cm10. whenever the screen turns off due to the proximity sensor ( holding it to your face) the call is lost and the phone freaks out. this is a phone. so that would not work for me. cm9 has better battery life, and a few more apps work with it. from what it seems, DZK has abandoned us. our only how on a better JB is g2yupie working out his 4.2, and it not having the same phone call issue. i say try out cm9. unless you dont make many calls. also, it doesnt do the proximity thing if you are plugged in. but any other time, under any other circumstances , it does. there is no work around.

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