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Hello there,
so for quite some time I've been entertaining the idea of either adapting a lapdock with a touchscreen and (perhaps) a swivel mechanism or building a tablet dock myself, that could use the Atrix as the "brainpower". I think this is a plausible idea, since it's innards are basically the same as the Motorola Xoom, and there's something very seductive about a tablet dock. Seems something from the future.
The thing is, I know very little about android kernel and drivers / modules, whatnot.
There are several drivers availible for linux, and moreso on androidx86. But those are different arquitectures.
What I wanted to know, from someone who knows his way arround a kernel, is how difficult would that be to implement for someone who has just a little bit of knowledge of linux (like me). Or is this something I should ask pretty please to one of our kernel guru's over at development?
Thank you for your time
I'm sure this is a stupid noob question, but:
Can I build from source on a Chromebook without running Ubuntu in a box? If so, can anyone point me in the direction of a resource for that? I'm only asking because the wifi only Chromebooks are pretty cheap - cheaper than I am likely to find a macbook.
austontatious said:
I'm sure this is a stupid noob question, but:
Can I build from source on a Chromebook without running Ubuntu in a box? If so, can anyone point me in the direction of a resource for that? I'm only asking because the wifi only Chromebooks are pretty cheap - cheaper than I am likely to find a macbook.
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You are very unlikely to find your answer here. What exactly are you wanting to do? Install a different OS on it?
Sounds like he wants to build Android from source code which is usually done it a Linux system. I'm not sure the answer, but it seems like you should be able to. Unless Chrome is not as powerful since it is browser based system.
I don't know if this is correct but....
I would assume that you can't because chromebooks are not powerful at all. There's almost nothing that eye popping about the specs of chromebooks. On top of that, there isn't much you can do with a chromebook because it is a browser-based operating system. If you really want to build from source just buy a cheap DIY computer from Newegg or something and install Linux on it.
Please use the Q&A Forum for questions Thanks
Moving to Q&A
You can't do what you want right out of the box on a chromebook. But you can open em up and flip a switch which will allow you to load linux or ubuntu on them. Only caveat is that the one I have is an alpha tester model they gave to us (the company I work for had a deal with google) so jot sure if that I the case wih the newest ones.
3VO Sent
austontatious said:
I'm sure this is a stupid noob question, but:
Can I build from source on a Chromebook without running Ubuntu in a box? If so, can anyone point me in the direction of a resource for that? I'm only asking because the wifi only Chromebooks are pretty cheap - cheaper than I am likely to find a macbook.
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Click to collapse
As long as you're able to get to a unix/linux based terminal/shell, you *should* be able to compile the Android OS.
Now there are a few caveats to the process, I recall hearing a 64 bit instead of a 32 bit system was required for gingerbread and above, plus there might be some other operating system dependencies. There might also be a RAM requirement.
Also, it can take an hour or two on many modern computer builds. This might take a very long time on a laptop or stripped down laptop such as a chromebook.
I've only compiled inside Ubuntu as that is the recommended OS by Google in their directions. I've compiled using Ubuntu as main booting OS and with Ubuntu being booted inside a VM on a Windows Host.
Best place to start is with Google's official directions for compiling AOSP: http://source.android.com/source/initializing.html
I found this link by searching google.com using the terms: android complie source code
The requirements and notes Google's mentions in their directions:
"Note: The source download is approximately 6GB in size. You will need 25GB free to complete a single build, and up to 80GB (or more) for a full set of builds."
"The Android build is routinely tested in house on recent versions of Ubuntu LTS (10.04), but most distributions should have the required build tools available. Reports of successes or failures on other distributions are welcome.
Note: It is also possible to build Android in a virtual machine. If you are running Linux in a virtual machine, you will need at least 16GB of RAM/swap and 30GB or more of disk space in order to build the Android tree"
Hope that helps! Good luck!
Thanks for the help! So it looks like I could *maybe* do the build on a chromebook, but regardless I wouldn't want to. Correct?
austontatious said:
Thanks for the help! So it looks like I could *maybe* do the build on a chromebook, but regardless I wouldn't want to. Correct?
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Assuming you were able to get everything setup on the Chromebook, at bare minimum it would take a few hours, if not much much longer to complete the compile based on Chromebook hardware and Google expectations as outlined in my previous post.
An alternative, would be to ssh into a build box from the chromebook and compile using this method. This would probably be an approach I would be willing to take. Just throwing out another idea as there are a few reasonable alternatives.
In my experience, compiling AOSP is one of the more hardware intensive tasks I perform on my desktop .. if not the most intensive.
Hope that helps!
Is it now possible to install Ubuntu on the Nook Tablet? - not as a stand-alone Operating System, but as a process running from the Android environment, as has been done for the Nook Color .. http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=10306407#post10306407
This site .. http://androlinux.com/android-ubuntu-development/how-to-install-ubuntu-on-android/ .. states 'First of all, you should have your Android device “rooted” because you need root access to run Ubuntu off your Android. Second, your Android OS must support loop devices.' - are these conditions met now with the Nook Tablet?
The emphasis of the above articles is on using Ubuntu as an alternative desktop system to Android.
I see a second reason, though, for doing this - running a Ubuntu server on the tablet gives you access to all the server packages that are available with Ubuntu - eg. Apache2/PHP, MySql, Postgres - maybe not useful if you are connected to a network, but potentially useful if you have a field tablet (ie. with no connectivity) that you want to develop database applications for.
Edit: ignore me......
Sent from my NookColor using Tapatalk
You're asking whether you can follow a tutorial you yourself posted? Why don't you try, and let us know?
There may be kernel modules you need missing, but other than that there isn't a reason the same thing done on the NC wouldn't work on the NT. All you need is a rooted NT (the NT has been rooted for a while)—the NT's locked bootloader is irrelevant for a chroot.
tamasrepus said:
You're asking whether you can follow a tutorial you yourself posted? Why don't you try, and let us know?
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Mmm .. I would if I had a Nook Tablet, but I'm still working out whether to get a Nook Color or Nook Tablet - hence my interest in the question I'm asking. Of course, if I can do what I want with the NT, then that will be better than the NC because the NT is better hardware.
But, thanks for the other info.
And yes, I am hoping that someone with a Nook Tablet might be able to help answer this question.
Tybion said:
Mmm .. I would if I had a Nook Tablet, but I'm still working out whether to get a Nook Color or Nook Tablet - hence my interest in the question I'm asking. Of course, if I can do what I want with the NT, then that will be better than the NC because the NT is better hardware.
But, thanks for the other info.
And yes, I am hoping that someone with a Nook Tablet might be able to help answer this question.
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Click to collapse
Ubuntu on the nook color is not very far along. I just added a nook tablet to my nook color household. I have a motorola phone with webtop and there are a ton of hacks to get it to work that have prevented updating ubuntu.
If you want a tablet that runs ubuntu, look into an x86 tablet.
Sent from my BNTV250 using xda premium
We are running linux kernel, so as long as chroot is there (it is) then we can run (almost) any linux distro. This stuff is (relatively) easy and there interwebs are instructions on it dating back to the g1 days that still work.
Gentoo works for sure, i'm sure ubuntu does as would debian no doubt. i'm pretty sure there is an arm port of arch linux out there too. The main thing is to get the ARM version of your distribution of choice, and then look into running it under "chroot"
I'd probably go with debian over ubuntu. Seems simpler/easier for this kind of thing.
i've got a gentoo chroot running just fine on my NT. Don't do that btw. Deciding to emerge glibc just before bedtime--over adb. Now all you really wanna do is go to bed and read a couple chapters while you fall asleep but you can't because you thought it would be a good idea to compile glibc...on your tablet...tied to your pc...not that i would know
ylixir said:
We are running linux kernel, so as long as chroot is there (it is) then we can run (almost) any linux distro. This stuff is (relatively) easy and there interwebs are instructions on it dating back to the g1 days that still work.
Gentoo works for sure, i'm sure ubuntu does as would debian no doubt. i'm pretty sure there is an arm port of arch linux out there too. The main thing is to get the ARM version of your distribution of choice, and then look into running it under "chroot"
I'd probably go with debian over ubuntu. Seems simpler/easier for this kind of thing.
i've got a gentoo chroot running just fine on my NT. Don't do that btw. Deciding to emerge glibc just before bedtime--over adb. Now all you really wanna do is go to bed and read a couple chapters while you fall asleep but you can't because you thought it would be a good idea to compile glibc...on your tablet...tied to your pc...not that i would know
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Click to collapse
We may need a tranquilizer dart for you. I think we also need to ban you from all nook tablets.
Also, you should help me get backtrack 5 running on the device so I can see if our wifi chip supports injection.
ylixir said:
i've got a gentoo chroot running just fine on my NT. Don't do that btw. Deciding to emerge glibc just before bedtime--over adb. Now all you really wanna do is go to bed and read a couple chapters while you fall asleep but you can't because you thought it would be a good idea to compile glibc...on your tablet...tied to your pc...not that i would know
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Click to collapse
Gentoo is a very good Base for Crossdeveloping. You can employ a Crossdev toolchain for ARM or you can use your ARM Plattform to build native and use distcc to accelerate the Process.
I had Gentoo already on Plattforms like mips (Octane), Alpha and PPC
ylixir said:
We are running linux kernel, so as long as chroot is there (it is) then we can run (almost) any linux distro. This stuff is (relatively) easy and there interwebs are instructions on it dating back to the g1 days that still work.
Gentoo works for sure, i'm sure ubuntu does as would debian no doubt. i'm pretty sure there is an arm port of arch linux out there too. The main thing is to get the ARM version of your distribution of choice, and then look into running it under "chroot"
I'd probably go with debian over ubuntu. Seems simpler/easier for this kind of thing.
i've got a gentoo chroot running just fine on my NT. Don't do that btw. Deciding to emerge glibc just before bedtime--over adb. Now all you really wanna do is go to bed and read a couple chapters while you fall asleep but you can't because you thought it would be a good idea to compile glibc...on your tablet...tied to your pc...not that i would know
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Click to collapse
There is a Linux installer in Market. Good luck on getting it to work. The drivers required to get a functional desktop running on ARM hardware is pretty limited and mostly closed.
If it was as easy as you say all the Motorola webtop phones would be upgraded to Oneric. As it stands my Atrix will only run Jaunty, because that's what came on it.
If you know some secret please contribute to the webtop forums like the Attic, Bionic and Photon. They have been trying for months.
Sent from my BNTV250 using xda premium
dragon_76 said:
There is a Linux installer in Market. Good luck on getting it to work. The drivers required to get a functional desktop running on ARM hardware is pretty limited and mostly closed.
If it was as easy as you say all the Motorola webtop phones would be upgraded to Oneric. As it stands my Atrix will only run Jaunty, because that's what came on it.
If you know some secret please contribute to the webtop forums like the Attic, Bionic and Photon. They have been trying for months.
Sent from my BNTV250 using xda premium
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Drivers are a nonissue. Im sure youve noticed the nook comes with support for it's storage and filesystems and networking out of the box. If the nook didnt come with working linux drivers we wouldnt have a working nook.
The difference between gnu/linux amd android is just the userland. So put a working userland of your favorite linux distro in /data/local, mount the dev proc and sys filesystems, chroot. Boom gnu/linux. All drivers provided and working.
It's not a secret. As a matter of a fact it's how most linux installers on the pc work and as was mentioned earlier how many people develop for embedded platforms like android to begin with.
FYI, there is a developer thread for Ubuntu App on the NT ..
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1394329
Tybion said:
Is it now possible to install Ubuntu on the Nook Tablet? - not as a stand-alone Operating System, but as a process running from the Android environment, as has been done for the Nook Color .. http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=10306407#post10306407
This site .. http://androlinux.com/android-ubuntu-development/how-to-install-ubuntu-on-android/ .. states 'First of all, you should have your Android device “rooted” because you need root access to run Ubuntu off your Android. Second, your Android OS must support loop devices.' - are these conditions met now with the Nook Tablet?
The emphasis of the above articles is on using Ubuntu as an alternative desktop system to Android.
I see a second reason, though, for doing this - running a Ubuntu server on the tablet gives you access to all the server packages that are available with Ubuntu - eg. Apache2/PHP, MySql, Postgres - maybe not useful if you are connected to a network, but potentially useful if you have a field tablet (ie. with no connectivity) that you want to develop database applications for.
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Click to collapse
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1354002&page=12
Loglud answered the Ubuntu question post#113 YouTube video
Sorry first off I'm not sure if this is the right forum. Was thinking developers but there was an ominous warning at the top of that one so I decided not to take the chance.
The question is can Linux be installed on an Android based device natively? I'm aware of chroot enviroments and have done those. I also found this http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=981688 which is slightly cooler but it's still an AUFS based chroot mount. I found the same question asked here http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1272964 but there was no answer and I didn't want to zombie the thread. Google searches didn't turn up anything useful either.
While I'm thinking the question is fairly device agnostic my device is a Droid 2 Global. I'm getting ready to replace it soon but I'm thinking it might make a nice little embedded system. From what I've read about my device in particular it's got some type of "lock" that disallows the use of other kernels but I am not afraid of recompiling the kernel for my device with additional needed modules for file systems or whatever. I have done this in the past.
I'm not super picky on the distro, but given a choice I guess I'd go with Debian (hardly ever changes so I can just check for security updates once a week or so and otherwise forget about it).
I wouldn't expect anyone to be able to answer this directly as I'm sure it'd be a novel. I'm more hoping someone might have a link to a guide or something that I just completely failed to locate.
So I kept digging and I found this: http www dot htc-linux.org forwardslash wiki forwardslash index.php. As the link suggests it's focused towards HTC devices but between it and some other links on there I think I can work with it.
I'll mark the thread as [SOLVED], but since it ended up being fairly useless (sorry) go ahead and delete if it amuses you to do so, any passing admin.
Ubuntu is coming out with an official version for Android soon.
Sent from my ADR6425LVW
I Am Marino said:
Ubuntu is coming out with an official version for Android soon.
Sent from my ADR6425LVW
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This is probably your best answer. The Ubuntu build that runs on top of Android for webtop/lapdock purposes is running from the same kernel as Android is according to what I've heard. They will be providing the source so we'll see what the community can do with it.
It is possible on some Android devices, such as the Transformer and Desire.
But the Droid 2 Global, having a locked bootloader and the inability to install custom kernels, is not able to use native Linux.
If you want an Android device that is able to use native Linux do some research to find the one that fits you best.
Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
have you seen this? interestiong reading...
http://whiteboard.ping.se/Android/Debian
Itbelikedat said:
have you seen this? interestiong reading...
http://whiteboard.ping.se/Android/Debian
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Click to collapse
I tried it a small time ago. Everything works but zygote and its forks fail to start, perhaps due to mount namespaces implementation on Android, but I'm not sure. Seeking a way out for this but not successful so far due to lack of knowledge.
My Atrix got it's case cracked and the touch-screen display died, and given I already got a replacement phone I feel a bit adventurous. I wanted to see if I could build my own computer with what remains, so I wanted to run Linux natively (no Android). Given that there's a Linux 4 Tegra from Nvidia:
Is there a chance that I could build my own distro based on that?
Should I use another kernel (like the one currently used in gingerbread or CM7)?
Please note that I'm not trying to do webtop.
I thought of building my own handheld with the Atrix, or what remains of it. So any tips on how to get started would be great.
Cheers!
wrong section
ovitz said:
wrong section
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Umm... what section would you suggest other than Q&A?
It was moved. Sorry 'bout that. I was under the impression that development questions were on the other forum...
"Android development" is in the description. I think they keep that forum just for Android-specific things, even though Android is just a flavor of linux.
tonglebeak said:
"Android development" is in the description. I think they keep that forum just for Android-specific things, even though Android is just a flavor of linux.
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You're being way too literal. It's been used for all sorts of non-Android dev multiple times. Right now, Boot2Gecko is right there. The fact of the matter is that when it pertains to dev questions, this post would most likely be answered there. I'm pretty sure it'll die here on this forum with barely any useful answer, if at all.
The development section is mostly for things that are "in progress", ie. with "something to show". Questions, discussions and ideas go elsewhere.
As for your question, I believe I've seen a thread about this already, and quite recently too.
ravilov said:
The development section is mostly for things that are "in progress", ie. with "something to show". Questions, discussions and ideas go elsewhere.
As for your question, I believe I've seen a thread about this already, and quite recently too.
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I've checked a few that I've found on the forum, but most had no answer and were about other devices. With regards to the Atrix or the Tegra, I've only found threads about webtop.
Not to argue too much about this too much, but I've seen threads that started with nothing in the dev section. Like the Kernel porting project that started as a mere placeholder for the project. Point is, I've done my research and found no pointers to the questions I have. I made it in case another dev had an idea about it. I may have missed something, but that's why I asked in the first place. If I believed I had covered all grounds by myself, I wouldn't have asked in the first place.
Lugaidster said:
I've checked a few that I've found on the forum, but most had no answer and were about other devices. With regards to the Atrix or the Tegra, I've only found threads about webtop.
Not to argue too much about this too much, but I've seen threads that started with nothing in the dev section. Like the Kernel porting project that started as a mere placeholder for the project. Point is, I've done my research and found no pointers to the questions I have. I made it in case another dev had an idea about it. I may have missed something, but that's why I asked in the first place. If I believed I had covered all grounds by myself, I wouldn't have asked in the first place.
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What you're looking to do seems similar to this question: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2110161
The difference between the webtop and a stand alone installation of Linux won't be that different, mainly it would just be where on the device the OS is installed and how video is handled. That said, I'm not sure about the kernel, specifically the video drivers, since they're intended for Android and may not be compatible with X. AFAIK, Wayland is closer to Android than X is, but Wayland isn't quite ready.
Anyway, assuming you did succeed, what you would end up with would be less like a true desktop (as you'd be pretty much locked into a specific kernel, and therefor any packages limited by it, but it doesn't invalidate the effort), and more like a persistent live CD, since the OS would be installed to an area mounted as read-only (to prevent flash wear), with access to an area that has read/write access, like in Android where you store apps and user files. Overall, it could be fun if you enjoy a challenge and aren't intimidated by soldering and using the JTAG connector.
lehjr said:
What you're looking to do seems similar to this question: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2110161
The difference between the webtop and a stand alone installation of Linux won't be that different, mainly it would just be where on the device the OS is installed and how video is handled. That said, I'm not sure about the kernel, specifically the video drivers, since they're intended for Android and may not be compatible with X. AFAIK, Wayland is closer to Android than X is, but Wayland isn't quite ready.
Anyway, assuming you did succeed, what you would end up with would be less like a true desktop (as you'd be pretty much locked into a specific kernel, and therefor any packages limited by it, but it doesn't invalidate the effort), and more like a persistent live CD, since the OS would be installed to an area mounted as read-only (to prevent flash wear), with access to an area that has read/write access, like in Android where you store apps and user files. Overall, it could be fun if you enjoy a challenge and aren't intimidated by soldering and using the JTAG connector.
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Click to collapse
Actually, I might have to do soldering anyway. I'm not really intimidated by it and don't really care all that much for phone functionality and such. I'm not even interested all that much in X as my project is more towards transforming it into a handheld gaming (more like emu) device. I don't mind compiling software specifically for the system. The question is pretty low-level in that regard for me. I want to know if I have to do anything with regards to the kernel since it's specific to Android. Given that most emus I know that would run acceptably in a tegra 2 don't really need the GPU, I don't mind just using framebuffer so HW doesn't really interest me.
Lugaidster said:
Actually, I might have to do soldering anyway. I'm not really intimidated by it and don't really care all that much for phone functionality and such. I'm not even interested all that much in X as my project is more towards transforming it into a handheld gaming (more like emu) device. I don't mind compiling software specifically for the system. The question is pretty low-level in that regard for me. I want to know if I have to do anything with regards to the kernel since it's specific to Android. Given that most emus I know that would run acceptably in a tegra 2 don't really need the GPU, I don't mind just using framebuffer so HW doesn't really interest me.
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Click to collapse
Unfortunately, it's going to be one of those areas where you'll have to make an educated guess, since as far as we know, no one has successfully pulled off a straight Linux implementation on the device.
That said, nVidia does have both Android and Linux images for the Ventana dev kit, so it should be possible. In my case, I would compare the source code for their Linux kernel vs the stock Linux kernel vs their closest Android kernel vs the stock Android kernel. The biggest thing is how the the device specific files translate from one kernel to another, because you'll likely need to translate the device specific files for the Atrix in the same manner. The changes may be subtle or they may be drastic. The main thing is to just be able to set the pins properly so you don't release any "magic smoke". Unfortunately, I see no source code for any of nVidia's kernels.
Anyway, that's how I would do it, but I do suspect that someone with more knowledge could find a much simpler approach and hopefully they'll chime in, but this part of the forums isn't the thriving hub of activity it used to be, so I don't know if that will happen any time soon or at all.
lehjr said:
nVidia does have both Android and Linux images for the Ventana dev kit
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Atrix is a Whistler, not a Ventana.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=33289027#post33289027
ravilov said:
Atrix is a Whistler, not a Ventana.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=33289027#post33289027
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Thanks for the heads up and the link! :highfive: