Related
I just got my Nook Tablet 2 days ago and am very frustrated by the lack of instruction that I am finding on the internet about using this.
I know how to buy books and to change settings. I have my gmail set up but I cannot figure out the internet portion of this. For some reason the facebook login page was made to be my homepage and I have tried to change it many times....didn't work through settings. Also, while in facebook, I do not see "chat" or who is currently online. Am I doing something wrong? I did not see fb as an app in the app store.
I also have been looking at your lists of apps that everyone has added to their NT. Again, I am frustrated because I do not know what any of you are talking about. I am no techie!
Please help me out here or this thing is going back.
Joyce
If you go over to the B&N website and click on support for the Nook Tablet, you will get links to a dedicated 200 page user manual in pdf. Hopefully that might answer some of your questions.
I have read the manual and it does not give specifics for fb.
I don't think chat is an option with the mobile fb site. Also, the fb app is not available through the market on the nook. There is a fb apk file in the "must have apps" thread here, but not sure if it has chat either.
One thing Barnes and Noble has over Amazon is an actual store.
If you take your NT to the store, someone there should be able to help you set it up the way you want.
In your case specifically, I would recommend ignoring postings about side loading and rooting until you have quite a bit of experience using the stock Nook. You will avoid a lot of frustration that way.
The Alps listed in the "must have" are pretty easy to install and use. Just go to that page from the browser on your nt and click on the link(s). You'll see a little arrow in your notification area, click that and choose the package installer. At some point you'll need to check to OK installing non-market apps. Once you've installed the apps, you can get to them by seaching from the nooks search function. I would recommed installing the Amazon market and buying wave launcher. It will let you access up to 12 apps by swiping a finger, and you can also access all your apps through an app drawer that way too.
Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk
Haha oops, didn't mean to thank you!
Sent from my BNTV250 using xda premium
dooball said:
I'm also new and I tried grabbing as much information as I could and everyone has been nothing but a******s to me.
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Click to collapse
I think the OP has received several helpful replies to their problem.
As for the forum itself, I'm new and my experience has been that each of my polite inquiries have received responses, including help side-loading, rooting, and issues with default ringtones.
Perhaps insulting those who are in no hurry to get on Skype and talk to someone they've never met, is a questionable approach. Just a thought.
dooball said:
Why do they have to meet me before they talk to me? I thought this was the internet?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
"Meet" is probably the wrong word. In this sense it would be seeing a number of posts from a user to get a feel for how they deal with others, how knowledgable they are, etc.
You have no doubt seen posts from people which gave you a strong desire to have no interaction with them at all. That kind of thing.
In the very short time I've been watching these forums I've already seen several people jump in with an extremely demanding attitude. Like somehow they're entitled to everyone's immediate help.
Where does that come from? This isn't a Barnes & Noble site. These people aren't paid by B&N. Coming in demanding help seems like the wrong tack to take. If someone is looking to rant about the device they'd probably be more successful going into a B&N store.
Similarly, if you want detailed help on formatting epubs then perhaps a reader-specific forum might be more useful. Something like the Calibre forums maybe. Yes, the Nook Tablet is a reader but the vast majority of the posts here gear towards to the Android tablet side of the device--not the e-reader side.
dooball said:
Dude. EVERYONE I talk to ends up enjoying themselves.
Everyone claims they like people so much. Cell phones are flying off the shelves, Skype is more popular than ever--even Gmail has a BUILT IN PHONE--but we're afraid to call "strangers" or "random internet people" because they could be p*****s, so how can you convince me that you really like people when you're so afraid of them? Who are people calling? Who are you calling? People who already agree with you? Sounds like a boring life to me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dude, maybe people don't want to take time out of their day to be your personal nook/android tutor when literally every single person has figured **** out themselves by either using the forum search function or using Google. If you used your time to do research instead of writing long rambling posts, you would already be way ahead of where you are now regarding knowledge. Seriously, everything you ever wanted to know about android is at your fingertips, you just need to put the work in yourself.
Please don't feed the troll.
Wow.
walk away.
Breathe.
Relax before you haave a heart attack.
You catch more flies with honey.
In regards to the op... he did seem to come into a technical forum to attemp to figure out very basic usage information. Read a few threads here and im sure youll pick up some things. I had to google a lot of acronyms and things last week to get up to speed. Kexec, cwm, etc. You'll pick it up. Just keep reading!
I think this has been one off the nicer forums on here, and and I'm proud to be a part of it.
In general augustusbot is 100% correct. This is a forum for modding not for basic usage, the problem though is in general there is no good manual for any android device. The fact that Barnes and Noble has physical stores is great, it is their job to show you how to use your device.
Dooballs....
Go buy an iPad. You will fit right in.
e.mote said:
Please don't feed the troll.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Read the above...
I repeat, don't feed the trolls, they get cranky when they eat...
=)
Wow. This **** is epic. I subscribed.
Sent from my Nook Tablet using xda premium
Meeker said:
Read the above...
I repeat, don't feed the trolls, they get cranky when they eat...
=)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In spite of this, I'm compelled to reply.
jdubr said:
"Meet" is probably the wrong word. In this sense it would be seeing a number of posts from a user to get a feel for how they deal with others, how knowledgable they are, etc.
You have no doubt seen posts from people which gave you a strong desire to have no interaction with them at all. That kind of thing.
In the very short time I've been watching these forums I've already seen several people jump in with an extremely demanding attitude. Like somehow they're entitled to everyone's immediate help.
Where does that come from? This isn't a Barnes & Noble site. These people aren't paid by B&N. Coming in demanding help seems like the wrong tack to take. If someone is looking to rant about the device they'd probably be more successful going into a B&N store.
Similarly, if you want detailed help on formatting epubs then perhaps a reader-specific forum might be more useful. Something like the Calibre forums maybe. Yes, the Nook Tablet is a reader but the vast majority of the posts here gear towards to the Android tablet side of the device--not the e-reader side.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
jdubr is just being polite. Nobody wants to talk to you because you behave like a b**t on this forum. The internet is a place full of normal people, but it has its fair share of we****s/a*****es. And we know very little about a person other than what we can discern from their online behaviour. From your prior posts, I personally find you a "***** ******** ******". And I believe most other people would feel the same way. That's why no one wants to talk to you. Try cooling off, then going through your previous posts and looking at them objectively. See if this happens in real life, or in other forums/personal interactions.
It's well and good saying you are well-liked. But based on the evidence we see, it seems to be the opposite. Nobody owes you information, or help. Anything anyone provides here is a gift, yet you demand it and complain when you don't get it.
It's true that information on forums isn't always very organised. But that's just the way they function. There ARE efforts to make it neater. But sometimes the developers/etc are too busy trying to figure out higher level problems to neaten up their work for a beginner to follow. In any case, they don't owe it to you, me, or anyone else.
I'm sure the developers would be more than happy to have people put up tutorial videos for them. But you have to ask nicely, and put in your own effort as well. The effort taken to develop/program/code is immense. To make things fair, how about putting in some of your own effort rather than adding to their load by asking them to simplify/explain everything in a beginner friendly manner?
To the OP, Joyce, there are various FB chat programs on the Android Market, you can try them instead of the official FB app. Also, there is some information on the Android Development Subforum about changing your screen dpi to 160, which may allow you to see the normal FB app on market. But that aspect is not fully firmed up yet, so you might want to wait a week or two till they have it stable.
As for "must have" apps, if you are new to Android, try downloading some of them which sound good, and try them for yourself. What others find good, may not work well for you. And part of the fun is exploring the Market to find apps that fit your purposes well, even if they aren't particularly popular. Try reading the descriptions and reviews on the Market for a quick feel of how the app works.
THREAD CLOSED.
I feel the OP was answered and purpose of the thread satisfied. So, thread closed.
Everyone be noticed that.
-- you need to be polite towards others to be a part of this forum . And while you seek answers u need to be extra polite.
-- We donot ban anyone without a proper reason.
-- Please make sure that you follow the forum rules.
How to sign up on Barnes and Nobel's website
To sign up on the Barnes & Nobel "book club" forum, and report your issues with your device, you can use your Barnes & Nobel Username and Password. You only need to select a name for the forum.
Getting Results
Lets link the topics here. If we want the topics to be highly visible to Barnes and Nobel, we must all "Laurel" (aka thanks) each other's posts. Here are some of my posts:
http://bookclubs.barnesandnoble.com...ion/Sticky-Side-Loading-is-broken/m-p/1245453
http://bookclubs.barnesandnoble.com...pment-is-stifled-on-this-device/idi-p/1244851
http://bookclubs.barnesandnoble.com...ent-tools-for-the-Nook-Store/m-p/1244651#M664
http://bookclubs.barnesandnoble.com...ease-signed-open-ended-X-Loader/idi-p/1243051
http://bookclubs.barnesandnoble.com...tore-the-ability-to-sideload-apps/m-p/1243023
Keep in mind that this is a "noob" forum. They will look up to you if you are developing. Noobs go to the "book club" to learn how to use their devices. We want to make sure the noobs see that we have more problems than they do with the device as it is. It needs to be opened up.
Official Channels (aka probly wont' work)
Here is another link for forwarding your concerns to higher levels https://nookdeveloper.barnesandnoble.com/support/support.html
email addresses for expressing your free-thinking concerns.
[email protected]
[email protected]
Using our community to push their community
I will laurel every development/root enabling link in this thread. So post up your Barnes and Nobel forum threads here and we can all laurel each others posts to bring them into the "top laureled posts" on Barnes and Nobel and thereby make them unable to ignore our posts.
Lets send several clear messages.
Don't forget their NT youtube channel. They had a video about the 1.4.1 update and I had commented there about opening up the device for developers.
B&N won't get it. We need more devs to work on this device. I'm sure with enough eyeballs on this thing we will be able to crack it.
xdahgary said:
B&N won't get it. We need more devs to work on this device. I'm sure with enough eyeballs on this thing we will be able to crack it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Attitudes like that are extremely unhelpful. In fact, I take offense to that. Only a handful of members on this site are actually developers and others(like you) take an attitude that development 'just happens'.
Here's some news for you, douchebag, development is tons of work. Its trials and tribulations. Its blood, sweat and tears. Its trial and error. Countless hours of work. And before we can even begin, we need a workaround for the security.
Guess what.. This is it. This is called social engineering. As stated by the most effective social engineer in the world, 'The best way to get a password is to ask for it". Until we have that password, there will be no development.
Now stop *****ing about **** you don't know and get in there to do some work. There's those who help and those who hinder. Guess what your post does.
This thread is about one thing. If you don't have anything to contribute, don't be a douchebag.
Return the NT. They will get their attention. Mine goes back next week. No to locked bootloader. No to blocked side loading. No to Barnes and Noble. I'll buy my books from Amazon from now on.
Sent from my BNTV250 using xda premium
I'll be returning my NT as I am within the two week return period unless the bootloader is broken within a matter of days. Otherwise, even if 1.4.1 becomes rootable again I can't check every few days to see if an update is coming and take the time to read all the preventative steps to avoid having to re-root. It is quite a disappointment to have gotten everything working on my NT only to find root broken, some of my apps completely gone and wifi ad hoc not working this morning.
I'm certainly not a developer, so I'll help with the means available. Unfortunately, after logging in on the B&N forum, it seems clicking on the laurel doesn't iterate the counter...
Don't know what's wrong, I'm trying over Safari or Chrome
You're taking it too personal. I have contributed in every way in the development. I have donated and left comments on your B&N links. But changing a corporation's mindset is very difficult. I hope B&N will change their ways, but I'm not optimistic. I would like more developers taking interest in the nook tablet instead. And I in no means believe development just happens. That is why I buy them beers.
I fail to see the need to call someone a douchebag because they stated the obvious... B&N does not care, nor will internet posts change their mind..
Returning the device won't really impact them as 97% of users will / can care less about hacking it...
Instead of jumping up and down like caged animals and threatning to return it why not trust in the developers of XDA? I do and I often hit their donate button...
I guess I'm next to get called a douche...
My .02
real-6 said:
I'm certainly not a developer, so I'll help with the means available. Unfortunately, after logging in on the B&N forum, it seems clicking on the laurel doesn't iterate the counter...
Don't know what's wrong, I'm trying over Safari or Chrome
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You have to log in and create a pen name. It's kind of a pain, but I was able to do it.
Thanks Adam for the initiative you are taking on this product. I hope it eventually helps.
While i share in the sentiment that B&N is not going to care about a hand full of noisy people, ill put my 2 cents in at the store and their sites and cross my fingers. We are not asking for that much, are we?
I'm way past my 2 week grace period so I'm either stuck with it or it goes on e-bay at a loss if there isn't a work around in a reasonable amount of time. ( no I'm not slamming on the xda developers.. just that at some point you have to cut your losses and give up )
I did buy the device with full intent for a couple of non-bn functions, and while some of them still work ( but not all ) it will still prevent me from ever updating the app which means at some point, its useless.
Nurb432 said:
While i share in the sentiment that B&N is not going to care about a hand full of noisy people, ill put my 2 cents in at the store and their sites and cross my fingers. We are not asking for that much, are we?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's worth a few seconds of our time.
To anyone who does head over there, try to be positive. There are a few members there who are personally insulting folks like us, please don't take the bait. They aren't your intended audience, you won't change their minds even if they were and they aren't worth your time anyway. Just stay positive and encourage openness, and laurel those posts that do the same.
Will do Adam. It is the least we can do for someone who has done so much for all of us. I started emailing them a couple days ago thinking the squeaky wheel and all that but continue to get the auto-response.
AdamOutler said:
Here's some news for you, douchebag, development is tons of work.
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Click to collapse
Bah humbug? Great thread.
This is a thread on B&N's community board. A link in this thread states the special return/refund policy for this holiday season -
http://bookclubs.barnesandnoble.com...licy/m-p/1246537/message-uid/1246537#U1246537
Only the top management at this time can make difference. One thing for sure that the top management cares more than the customer complaint is the earnings. My theory is that if there are enough returns to impact the earnings, this may help the top management to think through the issue clearly.
B&N's 3rd qtr ends on January 31, 2012 which coincide with the extended return period for holiday (see the link above). So you can make the best judgement about what you can do to help yourselves.
dkb218 said:
Return the NT. They will get their attention. Mine goes back next week. No to locked bootloader. No to blocked side loading. No to Barnes and Noble. I'll buy my books from Amazon from now on.
Sent from my BNTV250 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
First I'm not personally going after you here. I see this type of opinion across alot of forums. When you go to return it you don't have the option to say any of things you have pointed out. Us XDA'ers may be a minority but we are known to be very loud. I do feel that Adam's plan is the best course of action to accomplish what is needed to make the Nook a great tablet.
That being said, everything you have pointed out is very real concern to me, and I have been seriously considering returning mine. But I'm not really seeing any real development(comparing to the major phones) on any tablet besides the Samsung galaxy tab(which I can't afford) I'm thinking once Adam and the rest of the guys in the development thread get through the bootloader issue we might have one of the better development communities's going once we can attract the rest of the nook color guys.
The complaints about 1.4.1 are written everywhere. It's very hard to imagine that B&N is not knowing about what is going on.
The advantage of being a Tablet ex-owner is no longer emotionally attached to the device and will be able to see the situation without bias. If s/he still likes it, it's always possible to buy it back in February. May be a pre-owned one at a discount?
Don't know if you guys got the memo, but unless you bought your NT before November 14th, you have until January 31st(I think) to return them, open or unopened. Extended holiday returns are a beautiful thing. I would post a link to the info on the website, but I'm too lazy.
Merry Christmas!
So i got my first reply from B&N that basically stated they really don't care , and they removed side loading to prevent piracy. So i guess that means all other markets are just pirates? My foot, its all about lock-in and restriction of free trade.
Last B&N product i ever buy.
I'm also forwarding a complaint on to my states attorney general.
I decided against getting a Nook Tablet, and told my family not to get a Nook Tablet. Since I'm the IT guy of the family my words have a lot of weight when it comes to buying tech goodies.
That's how we here in this board can hurt B&N bottom line. WE'RE the guys/gals that our family comes to and says: "Is this a good thing to get?" and our answer can steer them to or away from the NT. Right now the answer to them is stay away from the Nook Tablet.
My sister and father both got Kindle Fires BTW.
A few days ago was excited to see the Honeycomb update roll out. Running a rooted best buy flyer. The early reports of installing Honeycomb were not appealing. For some of us finding out the exact procedure (after rooting) is still a mystery. There is no clear cut procedure to update.
Other than some minor security enhancements and a tad more speed, what's the big deal to upgrade anyhow?
The newness of HC will eventually wear off and what are you left with? There are posts about apps not working, formatting issues, sluggishness, loss of menu buttons, system crashes, browser crashes, game installation issues, loss of connectivity, gps not locking...etc, WOW!!!
This is not a motivator to upgrade. I'm sure there are embarrassed and pissed of users who were sorry they upgraded.
I'm going to wait until this things are ironed out and some smart dev stops whining about "too many people are pm'ing them for help." Being a dev has it's responsibilities. Telling users to stop asking for help in an open forum is frigging disgraceful. Forums are for helping people not telling people to shut up. We are all volunteers trying to help each other. Get a reality check.
It's going to be a while until most of the apps in the Android market fully support Honeycomb on tablets. For now Gingerbread works fine, headache-free.
Big_O said:
A few days ago was excited to see the Honeycomb update roll out. Running a rooted best buy flyer. The early reports of installing Honeycomb were not appealing. For some of us finding out the exact procedure (after rooting) is still a mystery. There is no clear cut procedure to update.
Other than some minor security enhancements and a tad more speed, what's the big deal to upgrade anyhow?
The newness of HC will eventually wear off and what are you left with? There are posts about apps not working, formatting issues, sluggishness, loss of menu buttons, system crashes, browser crashes, game installation issues, loss of connectivity, gps not locking...etc, WOW!!!
This is not a motivator to upgrade. I'm sure there are embarrassed and pissed of users who were sorry they upgraded.
I'm going to wait until this things are ironed out and some smart dev stops whining about "too many people are pm'ing them for help." Being a dev has it's responsibilities. Telling users to stop asking for help in an open forum is frigging disgraceful. Forums are for helping people not telling people to shut up. We are all volunteers trying to help each other. Get a reality check.
It's going to be a while until most of the apps in the Android market fully support Honeycomb on tablets. For now Gingerbread works fine, headache-free.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's your device and what you like that should be important.
Choosing a side is tough.
--------------------------
"Neither have they hearts to stay, nor wit enough to run away."
Butler, Samuel on indecision
Took a couple deep breaths before responding to this dribble. I am going to attempt being polite. You clearly are misinformed, but that is not the issue. Your total lack of respect for people who dedicate personal time for little reward for the love of the device and the platform is disgusting. It would be one thing if it stoped there, but oh no it does not. The "whiny" dev you are referring to did not want pms sent so that the resolutions can be read by all, for the greater good. I am particularly fond of this approach as it is how I learned everything I know about android. Reading others experiences, and learning what to avoid and how to recover
In summation, WOW
Sent from my HTC Flyer P510e using xda premium
mcord11758 said:
Took a couple deep breaths before responding to this dribble. I am going to attempt being polite. You clearly are misinformed, but that is not the issue. Your total lack of respect for people who dedicate personal time for little reward for the love of the device and the platform is disgusting. It would be one thing if it stoped there, but oh no it does not. The "whiny" dev you are referring to did not want pms sent so that the resolutions can be read by all, for the greater good. I am particularly fond of this approach as it is how I learned everything I know about android. Reading others experiences, and learning what to avoid and how to recover
In summation, WOW
Sent from my HTC Flyer P510e using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
if i could high five you i would
newalker91 said:
First off, you need to do some damn research as to why Honeycomb is great for tablets. Gingerbread was built for phones, Honeycomb was built for tablets. It makes the most out of your screen space so you can multitask and use larger format interfaces.
Second... WOW.
Congratulations on being the most ignorant petulant child of a poster to ever step into XDA. These developers do what they do out of their own personal interest and creativity. They have NO responsibility to support, update or even RELEASE material to this website. If people like you pulled their head out of their ass long enough to thoroughly read the entire set of instructions and also had a high enough level of reading comprehension to understand said instructions, they wouldn't be getting bombarded with the stupidest PM's for **** like "hai ur rom borke my tablet, i dint wipe data cuz i wunted to save my angry berds game". Calling the developers whiny for not wanting to deal with that? Good lord you're dumb. YOU need to get a reality check before you get banned. I sincerely hope you hard brick your tablet in the near future and no dev responds to your cry for help.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As a dev that gets bombarded by stupid questions daily, I want to hug you now.
Big_O said:
I'm going to wait until this things are ironed out and some smart dev stops whining about "too many people are pm'ing them for help." Being a dev has it's responsibilities. Telling users to stop asking for help in an open forum is frigging disgraceful. Forums are for helping people not telling people to shut up. We are all volunteers trying to help each other. Get a reality check.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is the one and only post I will make on this topic.
I never asked people not to ask for help, I told them to do it in the forums where others could learn from the answers. I make no apologies whatsoever for that position.
Continuously dealing with PMs makes it impossible to deal with the underlying issue for the benefit of the whole community. It's pretty selfish to consider oneself entitled to individual support to the detriment of everyone else. In as far as is possible I have tried to answer every single question asked in every thread I have posted, I'm sure there have been a few missed but the number is small. When people have done that and are still stuck I have provided additional support via teamviewer.
In addition to the honeycomb upgrade released at that time for the Flyer I was working on the S-OFF upgrade for the Evo view, a device which I don't even own and for which I had to start form scratch by first patching the honeycomb hboot. This is a device who's users are pretty much all located in a timezone which meant working through the night for me to support them.
I gave up the vast majority of my Christmas/New Year vacation to these two things and then providing support for them. Yes, there is a responsibility on developers to support their work however that responsibility is primarily to the community, not to any one individual. I have more than discharged any developer responsibilities for work I have provided, had I answered all the PMs I received in that time neither of these two items would yet be resolved.
Is ICS not being developed for this tablet? Honeycomb is old news already.
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S Captivate using XDA Premium.
Keep the flames coming . I'm entitled to my opinion in a public forum. Yes, there are some ignorant requests from people, but there is a polite way of handling things? Moderator's can't ban because they don't agree with somebody's post. Have been involved with XDA since 2008. There are hundreds of forums on a multitude of handsets with millions of posts. All the hard work and long hours are greatly appreciated. This doesn't mean I'm going to sheepishly sit on the sidelines and kiss ass and NOT VOICE AN OPINION. This is a tablet. This is the flyer forum. There are many developers (myself included). I'm not in high school and probably more experienced in the real world than some of these college kids hoping I'll brick my device. It's a $300 tablet that is fun to play with. It's a grain of sand on the beach compared to my other toys. If it bricks will throw it away and get another one.
Was happy to see a honeycomb update. Before you tar and feather the mailman, understand this thread is not about bad mouthing a dev who contributes a lot to the XDA community. It's about respectful communication.
The cons outweigh any benefit to move to honeycomb at the moment IMO.
BTW, this isn't the Soviet Union.
BTW: Here's the thread you were looking for in the first place http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1358758
Big_O said:
Was happy to see a honeycomb update. Before you tar and feather the mailman, understand this thread is not about bad mouthing a dev who contributes a lot to the XDA community. It's about respectful communication.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There really wouldn't be much of an issue if what you said was respectful. But there was absolutely nothing respectful about what you said:
Big_O said:
I'm going to wait until this things are ironed out and some smart dev stops whining about "too many people are pm'ing them for help." Being a dev has it's responsibilities. Telling users to stop asking for help in an open forum is frigging disgraceful. Forums are for helping people not telling people to shut up. We are all volunteers trying to help each other. Get a reality check.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Big_O said:
A few days ago was excited to see the Honeycomb update roll out. Running a rooted best buy flyer. The early reports of installing Honeycomb were not appealing. For some of us finding out the exact procedure (after rooting) is still a mystery. There is no clear cut procedure to update.
Other than some minor security enhancements and a tad more speed, what's the big deal to upgrade anyhow?
The newness of HC will eventually wear off and what are you left with? There are posts about apps not working, formatting issues, sluggishness, loss of menu buttons, system crashes, browser crashes, game installation issues, loss of connectivity, gps not locking...etc, WOW!!!
This is not a motivator to upgrade. I'm sure there are embarrassed and pissed of users who were sorry they upgraded.
I'm going to wait until this things are ironed out and some smart dev stops whining about "too many people are pm'ing them for help." Being a dev has it's responsibilities. Telling users to stop asking for help in an open forum is frigging disgraceful. Forums are for helping people not telling people to shut up. We are all volunteers trying to help each other. Get a reality check.
It's going to be a while until most of the apps in the Android market fully support Honeycomb on tablets. For now Gingerbread works fine, headache-free.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This just about sums it up … http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0MRmxfLuNto
Thank you. Your time and contributions are greatly appreciated. My apologies.
I will have to save that YouTube URL as it can be used in many threads here on XDA of late. I got a good chuckle from it.
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S Captivate using XDA Premium.
Well you know some people just should just not be allowed to own guns or high tech equipment. But even for those people that have marginal grasp of proper operation of such devices, it would still be OK as long as they only hurt themselves and not those that try to help them. This thread was obviously started by someone that doesn't know how to keep from hurting others and it belongs on the dumpster.
Pretty sad that the OP feels justified to come on here and "speak his opinion" by insulting globatron and call him a whiner. I've been on XDA through 3 different devices over 4 years, and I honestly think he is the most helpful and generous with his time I have seen of any developer or user on all of XDA. He answers just about every question asked of him, and then some. Many developers don't even come close to taking the time to do that. And they shouldn't have to, anyway. Whoever said that just because you are a developer, you have to become everyone's personal unpaid tech support person?
As globatron already indicated, he didn't say he wouldn't help anyone. He just posted some steps to try if you have issues, before bombarding him with PMs. He will still help, and I have seen him help numerous people by opening up a team viewersession, and getting it done through all hours of the night. Is there any forum in the entire internet where a total stranger will give you such help? Not just for smartphones/tablets, but for ANYTHING?
I also don't see the point in coming on here and pigeon-holing your critics as being high-schoolers, and bragging about how you are so rich that you don't care of you brick your Flyer.
No clear cut procedure to update to HC? About 5or 10 minutes of browsing and reading and you would have found that globatron's guide is the way to go. And he was kind enough to spoon feed you the link. All you have to do is download the file and run the .exe. How much easier could it be?
I haven't experienced any system or browser crashes on HC. I'm also puzzled about some people's comments on sluggishness. HC is very snappy for me. Everything seems as responsive as GB. Which is impressive, considering HC is heavier on eye candy and animations. As far as game/app compatibility, it depends on what apps you use. I haven't experienced any compatibility issues. All the core non-game apps I use run exactly as they do on GB. I don't play a huge number of games, but the ones I do play work fine. I know there are some games out there that have issues (Gameloft in particular?). But if the ones you use are compatible, it doesn't matter.
HC is a completely different OS experience from GB, designed for tablet screens rather then a small phone screen. The launcher and menus are all laid out taking advantage of the increased screen real estate. Not sure if its important to you, but the pen integration is hugely increased, and works on many apps, not just Notes and PDFs.
GB was a perfectly functional OS. But it was really just an incremental update of Froyo. HC feels much more refined. While using the Flyer with GB made it feel like just a really big smartphone, HC actually makes it feel like something a step above that. If you don't like the update, its not that hard to roll it back to GB.
Firstly - respect and kudos to the devs and experts that help those of us who are less informed about android and the flyer.
But, I do share something of the OPs sentiment.
The HC upgrade is a pros and cons thing; with the loss of function keys and some reported incompatibilities and some users reporting a slow down.
It is a balance of pros and cons.
The HC upgrade is a step into the unknown and there is no easy downgrade path (which maintains your warranty if you get into difficulty). So it is a plunge... and I too have not yet taken it.
deaglecat said:
Firstly - respect and kudos to the devs and experts that help those of us who are less informed about android and the flyer.
But, I do share something of the OPs sentiment.
The HC upgrade is a pros and cons thing; with the loss of function keys and some reported incompatibilities and some users reporting a slow down.
It is a balance of pros and cons.
The HC upgrade is a step into the unknown and there is no easy downgrade path (which maintains your warranty if you get into difficulty). So it is a plunge... and I too have not yet taken it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I believe leedroids hc Rom has hardware key functionality but I havent tried it. And on behalf of us overly enthusiastic end users who frequent these forums, big thanks to globatron and all the other devs for giving us all that they do.
Sent from my ADR6425LVW using xda premium
Big_O said:
Being a dev has it's responsibilities. Telling users to stop asking for help in an open forum is frigging disgraceful. Forums are for helping people not telling people to shut up.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Big_O said:
There are many developers (myself included). I'm not in high school and probably more experienced in the real world than some of these college kids hoping I'll brick my device. It's a $300 tablet that is fun to play with. It's a grain of sand on the beach compared to my other toys. If it bricks will throw it away and get another one.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To be honest guys, this thread could have been helpful for people who are still decided whether they should upgrade to HC or not. Or at least a good thread for discussion. I personally enjoy reading people's opinion regarding this topic as I'm currently attempting to enjoy HC.
And although I agree with some of you, the OP voiced his opinion and you guys responded by flaming him from the start..
Sent from my HTC Flyer.
Scabes24 said:
To be honest guys, this thread could have been helpful for people who are still decided whether they should upgrade to HC or not. Or at least a good thread for discussion. I personally enjoy reading people's opinion regarding this topic as I'm currently attempting to enjoy HC.
And although I agree with some of you, the OP voiced his opinion and you guys responded by flaming him from the start..
Sent from my HTC Flyer.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think the OP's opinion on the pros and cons of HC is respected by all. It was his labelling of globatron as a whiner that is totally unacceptable especially since he got most of his facts about the issue wrong.
Sent from my HTC Flyer P510e using xda premium
Hello All,
In recent events we saw our primary kernel developer completely drop his project and leave. This is a sad thing, but it could have been prevented on both sides. It seems that there has lately been a huge misunderstanding of what working with a community means and what open source means, it is tearing the community as a whole apart.
I. USERS/TESTERS: (this is the part most of us know about)
This can roughly refer to anyone that is not a developer or submitting code, but it can also refer to developers using ROMs or Kernels produced by other developers. Anyone in this position needs to realize that almost ALL Roms/Kernels/Themes are experimental even if considered "stable". There is a reason that on both Rootzwiki and XDA it is common to see developers stating they are not responsible for any damage done to your device or your data.
Device problems will differ from one device to another due to security implementations or new code/hardware or even something else. It needs to be understood that a kernel/Rom release that has bugs may NOT be due to code written by the dev, but by an inherent flaw in the hardware OR the stock code.
What does this mean to you?
Well, in order to function as effectively as possible a general guideline should be followed.
Be Tactful - Lets face it, there are going to be issues with ROMs and Kernels. There will never be a truly 'stable' release. Try to report issues in a polite and friendly manner. If you disagree with a developer, you can let them know, just be sure to be as tactful as possible, also make sure to provide adequate reports and detail.
Detail, Detail, Detail - Many of the newer folks don't know how to access logfiles, but this shouldn't stop you from being detailed. When an issue is come across, make sure to include as much detail as possible. For clarification, ANYTHING that is changed from stock configuration should be considered. For kernels, it is good to include any and all adjustments you have made. If a log can be pulled, DO IT, it won't hurt and the developer has an easier time figuring it all out.
Try to learn - The development community is a big place. By learning, you verify that you can help other newbies down the line, and that you provide more assistance to developers.
II. Developers: (the part less of us know about)
Ah, developers, without all of you, we wouldn't exist. Someone needs to do the work, and you provide the dedication and time. Most of us can't thank you enough. However, it seems that recently a lot of the developers are developing for the wrong reasons and are doing things against the very ideals we all stand for.
When developing with a community, ALL developers sign a non-verbal social contract. This contract includes many things.
- You are going to deal with some harassment (can be mitigated by mods) - Some people have bad days, others are asshats.
- Younger members will take you for granted
- Younger members will have difficulty providing detail
- The community will expect support for your product(s)
- Other developers (mostly new developers) will not credit you for your work occasionally (can be mitigated by mods)
All these things and more should be expected when working with a community. As a developer, you need to accept ALL of these things in order to contribute to making the community a healthy place.
Eventually, a developer must leave a device and move forward for WHATEVER reason they choose. This is inevitable, but in order to provide a healthy development cycle a developer should ALWAYS provide their source code for a time after development has stopped. This way projects can live on with other developers or be forked entirely.
MY COMMENTS ON TODAY:
DSB9938 - You are a fantastic developer and I urge you not to leave. I do believe you are misguided in pulling all your code and preventing others from forking or continuing your work. It goes against all that open source is about. You signed the social contract and you couldn't handle the terms, you wronged the community by breaking the trust you had developed.
Dr_Drache - Seriously? Kicking me from the AndIRC #droid-dna chat because you don't agree with what I say here? Did I step on your ego much? Stopping your s-off development because of all of this as well? You are whats wrong with the developers side of the community. God forbid someone disagree's with you, you either kick them or pull your project entirely. Go develop for Microsoft or some other proprietary company. You have forgotten about what the community really means and what open source is about.
Everyone else - We can pull through this. I have already started researching to pick up kernel development. It will be slow since DSB refuses to assist, but it can certainly be done.
Mods - We can't afford to lose more developers. We have to stop the harassment.
I agree with your post except the parts directed to DSB and Drache because it is a continuation of the feud. Let's just wipe the slate clean and follow the other parts of your comments because they are good guidelines on how to interact with each other.
th3raid0r said:
Hello All,
In recent events we saw our primary kernel developer completely drop his project and leave. This is a sad thing, but it could have been prevented on both sides. It seems that there has lately been a huge misunderstanding of what working with a community means and what open source means, it is tearing the community as a whole apart.
I. USERS/TESTERS: (this is the part most of us know about)
This can roughly refer to anyone that is not a developer or submitting code, but it can also refer to developers using ROMs or Kernels produced by other developers. Anyone in this position needs to realize that almost ALL Roms/Kernels/Themes are experimental even if considered "stable". There is a reason that on both Rootzwiki and XDA it is common to see developers stating they are not responsible for any damage done to your device or your data.
Device problems will differ from one device to another due to security implementations or new code/hardware or even something else. It needs to be understood that a kernel/Rom release that has bugs may NOT be due to code written by the dev, but by an inherent flaw in the hardware OR the stock code.
What does this mean to you?
Well, in order to function as effectively as possible a general guideline should be followed.
Be Tactful - Lets face it, there are going to be issues with ROMs and Kernels. There will never be a truly 'stable' release. Try to report issues in a polite and friendly manner. If you disagree with a developer, you can let them know, just be sure to be as tactful as possible, also make sure to provide adequate reports and detail.
Detail, Detail, Detail - Many of the newer folks don't know how to access logfiles, but this shouldn't stop you from being detailed. When an issue is come across, make sure to include as much detail as possible. For clarification, ANYTHING that is changed from stock configuration should be considered. For kernels, it is good to include any and all adjustments you have made. If a log can be pulled, DO IT, it won't hurt and the developer has an easier time figuring it all out.
Try to learn - The development community is a big place. By learning, you verify that you can help other newbies down the line, and that you provide more assistance to developers.
II. Developers: (the part less of us know about)
Ah, developers, without all of you, we wouldn't exist. Someone needs to do the work, and you provide the dedication and time. Most of us can't thank you enough. However, it seems that recently a lot of the developers are developing for the wrong reasons and are doing things against the very ideals we all stand for.
When developing with a community, ALL developers sign a non-verbal social contract. This contract includes many things.
- You are going to deal with some harassment (can be mitigated by mods) - Some people have bad days, others are asshats.
- Younger members will take you for granted
- Younger members will have difficulty providing detail
- The community will expect support for your product(s)
- Other developers (mostly new developers) will not credit you for your work occasionally (can be mitigated by mods)
All these things and more should be expected when working with a community. As a developer, you need to accept ALL of these things in order to contribute to making the community a healthy place.
Eventually, a developer must leave a device and move forward for WHATEVER reason they choose. This is inevitable, but in order to provide a healthy development cycle a developer should ALWAYS provide their source code for a time after development has stopped. This way projects can live on with other developers or be forked entirely.
MY COMMENTS ON TODAY:
DSB9938 - You are a fantastic developer and I urge you not to leave. I do believe you are misguided in pulling all your code and preventing others from forking or continuing your work. It goes against all that open source is about. You signed the social contract and you couldn't handle the terms, you wronged the community by breaking the trust you had developed. If you do not return, I can only hope that other, BETTER developers (in skill and ideology) fill your shoes.
Dr_Drache - Seriously? Kicking me from the AndIRC #droid-dna chat because you don't agree with what I say here? Did I step on your ego much? Stopping your s-off development because of all of this as well? You are whats wrong with the developers side of the community. God forbid someone disagree's with you, you either kick them or pull your project entirely. Go develop for Microsoft or some other proprietary company. You have forgotten about what the community really means and what open source is about.
Everyone else - We can pull through this. I have already started researching to pick up kernel development. It will be slow since DSB refuses to assist, but it can certainly be done.
Mods - We can't afford to lose more developers. We have to stop the harassment.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you, "my friend" need to learn when to stop running your mouth. you spent nearly an hour pretending to care, yet saying dsb/devs should give more back, because we have a contract with the community.
you never stepped on my ego, you were banned for being a luke. you want to quote GPL to the devs and expect us to fall down for you.
I agree with your post except the parts directed to DSB and Drache because it is a continuation of the feud. Let's just wipe the slate clean and follow the other parts of your comments because they are good guidelines on how to interact with each other.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I do need to get access back to the #Droid-DNA chat, otherwise it is VERY difficult to even begin development.
dr_drache said:
you, "my friend" need to learn when to stop running your mouth. you spent nearly an hour pretending to care, yet saying dsb/devs should give more back, because we have a contract with the community.
you never stepped on my ego, you were banned for being a luke. you want to quote GPL to the devs and expect us to fall down for you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, that is your assumption. I never even once demanded for more. I feel that the actions that have been taken are one of the sloppiest examples of open source development. I am trying to be a reasonable voice. I am trying to keep development going despite our recent setbacks.
I think that at the very least, devs should provide the sources so that development may continue after they decide to leave. Otherwise we loose too much progress.
th3raid0r said:
When developing with a community, ALL developers sign a non-verbal social contract. This contract includes many things.
- You are going to deal with some harassment (can be mitigated by mods) - Some people have bad days, others are asshats.
- Younger members will take you for granted
- Younger members will have difficulty providing detail
- The community will expect support for your product(s)
- Other developers (mostly new developers) will not credit you for your work occasionally (can be mitigated by mods)
All these things and more should be expected when working with a community. As a developer, you need to accept ALL of these things in order to contribute to making the community a healthy place.
Eventually, a developer must leave a device and move forward for WHATEVER reason they choose. This is inevitable, but in order to provide a healthy development cycle a developer should ALWAYS provide their source code for a time after development has stopped. This way projects can live on with other developers or be forked entirely.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, no no no no no no. No social contract, this is an at will thing, that most of us are not paid for. Some of us do it for a living, and also do it here for fun. We do this for FUN. We do this for our benefit (having fun). I can not be anymore honest, anything I do here, I do for my benefit (Brain exercise and fun). I enjoy Android. The day I no longer enjoy it, I will either leave for good, or take a break like I have in the past. We can leave the playground and go home at any time. In fact I encourage developers to do this from time to time, It helped me greatly.
We do get some *sshat harassment, no we don't have to deal with it. We can ignore it, take it to a mod, or take our cake and go home. I tend to confront it, bad habit of mine
Younger members will take us for granted, some times you have to turn the power off to wake them up, or let them sit a minute waiting for you to release something they want.
Support should be appreciated, but not expected. We have families, jobs, and some of use have a life outside of Android(not saying I do ).
Most people who steal work, are not developers. They are general *sshats, that is all.
th3raid0r said:
MY COMMENTS ON TODAY:
DSB9938 - You are a fantastic developer and I urge you not to leave. I do believe you are misguided in pulling all your code and preventing others from forking or continuing your work. It goes against all that open source is about. You signed the social contract and you couldn't handle the terms, you wronged the community by breaking the trust you had developed. If you do not return, I can only hope that other, BETTER developers (in skill and ideology) fill your shoes.
Dr_Drache - Seriously? Kicking me from the AndIRC #droid-dna chat because you don't agree with what I say here? Did I step on your ego much? Stopping your s-off development because of all of this as well? You are whats wrong with the developers side of the community. God forbid someone disagree's with you, you either kick them or pull your project entirely. Go develop for Microsoft or some other proprietary company. You have forgotten about what the community really means and what open source is about.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
RE: DSB9939: Sorry but take your social contract somewhere else, it doesn't even make sense. He didn't sign, didn't verbally agree, wasn't paid, rarely got a pat on the back. This is the guy who is the reason you all have root/unlock, and you are breaking his balls. Yeah no Beaups and I are not the reason, we were just the way to a means.
RE: Dr_Drache: AndIRC is not part of XDA, we are separate and really what goes on there doesn't belong here. If you have an issue, take it to me, Zifnab, TheFuzz4 or DougPiston. It is a PRIVATE server, and people are welcome at operator discretion. We are allowed to limit it to like minded people, or even to just be grumpy and randomly remove people if we wish (we don't normally). If you want to talk about it, you know where it is, and how to get ahold of me.
Dude, we don't another thread about this lol. I'm not here to harp on this fact, but I'm glad I dumped my DNA while I still had the chance. For some extremely odd reason, people don't know how to act in HTC threads. I definitely don't miss all of this drama from when I had my Rezound.
Sent from my SCH-I605 using xda premium
th3raid0r said:
I do need to get access back to the #Droid-DNA chat, otherwise it is VERY difficult to even begin development.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Requesting the community to be civil and then throwing in some parting shots is not ideal. I don't know what went down with you guys over there but maybe you can speak with the powers that be and work out an amicable solution.
jcase said:
No, no no no no no no. No social contract, this is an at will thing, that most of us are not paid for. Some of us do it for a living, and also do it here for fun. We do this for FUN. We do this for our benefit (having fun). I can not be anymore honest, anything I do here, I do for my benefit (Brain exercise and fun). I enjoy Android. The day I no longer enjoy it, I will either leave for good, or take a break like I have in the past. We can leave the playground and go home at any time. In fact I encourage developers to do this from time to time, It helped me greatly.
We do get some *sshat harassment, no we don't have to deal with it. We can ignore it, take it to a mod, or take our cake and go home. I tend to confront it, bad habit of mine
Younger members will take us for granted, some times you have to turn the power off to wake them up, or let them sit a minute waiting for you to release something they want.
Support should be appreciated, but not expected. We have families, jobs, and some of use have a life outside of Android(not saying I do ).
Most people who steal work, are not developers. They are general *sshats, that is all.
RE: DSB9939: Sorry but take your social contract somewhere else, it doesn't even make sense. He didn't sign, didn't verbally agree, wasn't paid, rarely got a pat on the back. This is the guy who is the reason you all have root/unlock, and you are breaking his balls. Yeah no Beaups and I are not the reason, we were just the way to a means.
RE: Dr_Drache: AndIRC is not part of XDA, we are separate and really what goes on there doesn't belong here. If you have an issue, take it to me, Zifnab, TheFuzz4 or DougPiston. It is a PRIVATE server, and people are welcome at operator discretion. We are allowed to limit it to like minded people, or even to just be grumpy and randomly remove people if we wish (we don't normally). If you want to talk about it, you know where it is, and how to get ahold of me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A social non-verbal contract is never an official thing.
In a most basic form it is the trade of safety/stability for a service when it comes to political science. They apply everywhere.
The reason we are no longer roaming nomads is due to social contracts.
I am not saying that this social contract is why you guys develop. It is the generalized community expectations. They are going to vary from member to member as well.
I understand Support is not expected, on your end, however it is essential to a successful project and furthermore it is essential to reputation. Reputation garners donations and therefore some developers incomes.
Most of my other points also follow this same logic.
A healthy community flourishes when these invisible expectations are met. Look at the GNex development for example and take note at what the successful projects are and how they got there.
I understand that DSB wasn't well appreciated. But the community opinion doesn't get better if he leaves in this way, I would argue that he broke a lot of trust that the community had in him. He could have still taken a break, but there are much more elegant ways to do so.
Sigh.
You want a contract? What does the guy on the other end get out of the contract?
I make the things I make so that I can run my phone how I want to run it. That's the only reason. I do not make them for you, or to look like some smart guy, or for my ego. I am the first to admit that I don't know a damned thing about coding. What I make takes hard hours of trial and error. Basically pounding on things till I slowly figure out how they work and bend them to do what I want.
And I do it for days on end. Till it works well enough for me to run on my phone. And I AM PICKY. I want it to be perfect. However, I also share what I make. I share it so that others who want to have their phone run the way I do, don't have to work so hard to get there.
Now comes the rub. There are billions of people in the world. And I bet if you put every phone next to every other phone, you would still not find two setup and/or used the same way. Because of that, I cannot test every possibility. When people come to me with something that doesn't work, do I just say no? Of course not. I made it. I feel responsible for it working correctly.
Now, having determined that I am not a coder, what do I do? First I go ask other people who are much smarter than I am. People like jcase, beaups, imoseyon, show-p1984. These are the real coders/android hackers in the world. They look at the code and actually know what it's doing. They don't have to try to arm wrestle with it to figure out what's wrong.
If that doesn't work, I beat on it. I look at logs. When you post those logs in my threads, there's a bunch of people who read them, not just me. And if I can figure it out, with what help is available, I fix it. If not, I say so. Half the time, what's in those logs is of no help, a quarter of the time, it's in there what happened, but it wasn't related. And lets not forget those logs are usually thousands of lines to read through.
Do I claim to be perfect? Hell no. But I do my best. And that's the very limit of what anybody else on the site has any particular right to ask me for. Nothing more. I try to let slide all of the little digs that people use when things don't work right. But over time it gets to you, ya know? And you guys only see the public stuff, in the threads. You don't see the PMs. And see the people who come online to the chat. You have no clue.
Now top that off with people twisting my words to insult me. I basically said that there are other reasons you can have problems with your phone. I did not say it wasn't my kernel, I said it wasn't in the logs. And I have this guy come in and say yeah, mine runs fine on stock. Seems our phones are only crap on your kernel. Now how did you honestly expect me to react?
I have asked this guy more than once to not run my kernel because he has these outbreaks. This was not the first one. And if you go look through his previous postings, you can see his doesn't only disrespect me, he has outright disrespected MODs as well. This makes me wonder why he was still around to bother me in the first place. But that's beside the point.
Now anybody who thinks I'm curt with others, go read the stuff I've had to put up with and see how long you can take it. I have no problems with people posting when they have an issue. And I can tell you right here and right now, my stuff isn't perfect. But when I tell you I can't find it, or fix it, that doesn't give you the right to flip out and go off on me. That means you go back a version and wait till I make a new one, or you go run something else. I even made a simple stock one for those with issues to run so they could have system write if they had issues.
I DO NOT MAKE ANYBODY RUN MY STUFF.
Now, having said all of that. Put yourself in my shoes and see how happy you would be.
D
.
orangechoochoo said:
Requesting the community to be civil and then throwing in some parting shots is not ideal.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, hindsight is 20/20.
It's early in the morning but after reading these threads that big bottle of Grey Goose is calling.
dsb9938 said:
You want a contract? What does the guy on the other end get out of the contract?
I make the things I make so that I can run my phone how I want to run it. That's the only reason. I do not make them for you, or to look like some smart guy, or for my ego. I am the first to admit that I don't know a damned thing about coding. What I make takes hard hours of trial and error. Basically pounding on things till I slowly figure out how they work and bend them to do what I want.
And I do it for days on end. Till it works well enough for me to run on my phone. And I AM PICKY. I want it to be perfect. However, I also share what I make. I share it so that others who want to have their phone run the way I do, don't have to work so hard to get there.
Now comes the rub. There are billions of people in the world. And I bet if you put every phone next to every other phone, you would still not find two setup and/or used the same way. Because of that, I cannot test every possibility. When people come to me with something that doesn't work, do I just say no? Of course not. I made it. I feel responsible for it working correctly.
Now, having determined that I am not a coder, what do I do? First I go ask other people who are much smarter than I am. People like jcase, beaups, imoseyon, show-p1984. These are the real coders/android hackers in the world. They look at the code and actually know what it's doing. They don't have to try to arm wrestle with it to figure out what's wrong.
If that doesn't work, I beat on it. I look at logs. When you post those logs in my threads, there's a bunch of people who read them, not just me. And if I can figure it out, with what help is available, I fix it. If not, I say so. Half the time, what's in those logs is of no help, a quarter of the time, it's in there what happened, but it wasn't related. And lets not forget those logs are usually thousands of lines to read through.
Do I claim to be perfect? Hell no. But I do my best. And that's the very limit of what anybody else on the site has any particular right to ask me for. Nothing more. I try to let slide all of the little digs that people use when things don't work right. But over time it gets to you, ya know? And you guys only see the public stuff, in the threads. You don't see the PMs. And see the people who come online to the chat. You have no clue.
Now top that off with people twisting my words to insult me. I basically said that there are other reasons you can have problems with your phone. I did not say it wasn't my kernel, I said it wasn't in the logs. And I have this guy come in and say yeah, mine runs fine on stock. Seems our phones are only crap on your kernel. Now how did you honestly expect me to react?
I have asked this guy more than once to not run my kernel because he has these outbreaks. This was not the first one. And if you go look through his previous postings, you can see his doesn't only disrespect me, he has outright disrespected MODs as well. This makes me wonder why he was still around to bother me in the first place. But that's beside the point.
Now anybody who thinks I'm curt with others, go read the stuff I've had to put up with and see how long you can take it. I have no problems with people posting when they have an issue. And I can tell you right here and right now, my stuff isn't perfect. But when I tell you I can't find it, or fix it, that doesn't give you the right to flip out and go off on me. That means you go back a version and wait till I make a new one, or you go run something else. I even made a simple stock one for those with issues to run so they could have system write if they had issues.
I DO NOT MAKE ANYBODY RUN MY STUFF.
Now, having said all of that. Put yourself in my shoes and see how happy you would be.
D
.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey, I totally understand all of that.
I have made some tweaks myself, but I don't publish them because I know they don't have much application outside of myself.
I do know where you are at, I work at a large legal software company as a QA Analyst. I KNOW the daily grind on this.
The harrasment won't always go away. Hell, i get it here in a large company. It can be mitigated by a few things. For example you can use a smaller community.
You don't have to deal with these things at all, but if you leave on such bad terms without a way for someone to pick up where you left off, it doesn't leave a good impression on the rest of the community.
The fact that you don't know code makes this all the more impressive. You are a fantastic problem solver, it shows, maybe we can find some way to lessen the blow for you and yet continue public development?
th3raid0r said:
A social non-verbal contract is never an official thing.
In a most basic form it is the trade of safety/stability for a service when it comes to political science. They apply everywhere.
The reason we are no longer roaming nomads is due to social contracts.
I am not saying that this social contract is why you guys develop. It is the generalized community expectations. They are going to vary from member to member as well.
I understand Support is not expected, on your end, however it is essential to a successful project and furthermore it is essential to reputation. Reputation garners donations and therefore some developers incomes.
Most of my other points also follow this same logic.
A healthy community flourishes when these invisible expectations are met. Look at the GNex development for example and take note at what the successful projects are and how they got there.
I understand that DSB wasn't well appreciated. But the community opinion doesn't get better if he leaves in this way, I would argue that he broke a lot of trust that the community had in him. He could have still taken a break, but there are much more elegant ways to do so.
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You keep saying signed social contract. It is non-sense man. What you mean is expectations from non involved individuals.
Most developers get jack for donations, only people who get tons are either A) the attention begging people who release 100000 roms for 1000 devices that are nothing special, or B) ones who release something special, and then the donation spree is short and sweet. We don't do it for donations. DSB is not making much from donations on this device, he does it strictly for fun and people are making it NOT fun for him.
I fell into B) with the DNA. I will say I made ~$800 from donations on the DNA unlock, it is not the rule but an exception. I bought two used phones really cheap to develop on ($200 and $140, gave the $200 one away to another developer for free after I was done. $140 one I will give away as well at some point.), pizza dinner for my kids ($35, my personal reward), sent some for another developer (DSB, for his work and risks) and donated the rest to various charities. This is NOT A normal amount of donations. Don't fool yourself thinking most developers are making an income of any kind doing this.
GNex community flourished due to paid support from Google (AOSP), and open documentation. Two things we did not have.
*PS*
If you haven't been in our shoes, you shouldn't pretend to know, and you shouldn't complain about us.
solutions anyone?
dsb, jcase I have to side with you guys entirely. I love your work and I appreciate it completely. I am grateful for you guys, were it not for you guys and other people like you I would not get to 'OCD' on my droid all hours of the night like I do. I have learned much. I am a machinist in a shipyard, I can understand fine tuning and perfection in your work.
Unfortunately most of today's societal behaviors even in grown adults are dysfunctional at best. I have been on the internet since it's inception to the public eye and all I can say is that arguing and bickering that happens on the internet is absolutely ridiculous. I feel bad for you guys and embarrassed for the "others."
I have to agree with what works though. My daughter, when she was young would throw a temper tantrum and slam her bedroom door, so I removed the door.
orangechoochoo said:
Sigh.
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+1
Sent from my Nexus 7 using xda app-developers app
orangechoochoo said:
It's early in the morning but after reading these threads that big bottle of Grey Goose is calling.
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Its almost night here, and Jack Daniels is calling me, all after reading all that posts and some chating on IRC... Never ever see such outcome because of some not polite posts. I have degree in International Relations and first thing i 've learned - don't say what you think, say what you need to say and SMILE )))) We all just people. I got my family. Wife, kids... But i spend time here not only because of kernels, ROMs and all that stuff. But because of great community. It looks like that 1 person can spoil all that great atmosphere.... :silly:
jcase said:
You keep saying signed social contract. It is non-sense man. What you mean is expectations from non involved individuals.
Most developers get jack for donations, only people who get tons are either A) the attention begging people who release 100000 roms for 1000 devices that are nothing special, or B) ones who release something special, and then the donation spree is short and sweet. We don't do it for donations. DSB is not making much from donations on this device, he does it strictly for fun and people are making it NOT fun for him.
I fell into B) with the DNA. I will say I made ~$800 from donations on the DNA unlock, it is not the rule but an exception. I bought two used phones really cheap to develop on ($200 and $140, gave the $200 one away to another developer for free after I was done. $140 one I will give away as well at some point.), pizza dinner for my kids ($35, my personal reward), sent some for another developer (DSB, for his work and risks) and donated the rest to various charities. This is NOT A normal amount of donations. Don't fool yourself thinking most developers are making an income of any kind doing this.
GNex community flourished due to paid support from Google (AOSP), and open documentation. Two things we did not have.
*PS*
If you haven't been in our shoes, you shouldn't pretend to know, and you shouldn't complain about us.
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Never said you make a living off the income generated from donations. I know it is mostly small, but the funds do help most people. It is also nice to know that you mean something to a few individuals.
Also, I work at a legal software company as a QA Analyst officially, but I do mostly QA Engineering work for no recognition, no additional pay, and the occasional bit of harassment when someone doesn't understand my methods. I really DO get the environment.
The only thing I am complaining about is devs leaving on such bad terms without a way for the community to recover, that's it.
th3raid0r said:
The only thing I am complaining about is devs leaving on such bad terms without a way for the community to recover, that's it.
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What makes you think anybody owes "the community" a way to recover?
D
.
Lokifish: PayPal account was frozen due to multiple refund requests in a short period. I even had mine frozen at one point because of three refund request for donations made through xda in a week. PayPal froze my account, demanded that I issue refunds using another funding source even though there was more than enough money in the account. PayPal also took a month to give the money to those that requested the refunds and then took six months to let me have access to the near $500 in the account. During the six months they also blocked any incoming donations. In short, PayPal operates outside of FTC guidelines and could care less about the customer or vendor as long as they get paid.
As far as the rest of your noise. It's not a retail product where there are tens of thousands of these things sitting in a warehouse. They are hand assembled by a company with less than 10 employees that also gets hundreds of emails a day, packs, labels and is tagged on hundreds of social media post a day.
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Not a retail product, really, just like it wasnt a real backers product! I was never a backer, I was a consumer that pre-ordered with a promised December shipment that changed to mid Jan and now March with no reply(70 days since email and no reply) and a cancelled Paypal order with no refund!
Congrats Le Fish disguising yourself as a dev!
Buyers be aware that Omate and Rocki have split and Rocki have all the backers funds not to mention the pre-orders as well, Omate is broke and have lied their last lie!
Le Fish, protect Omate all you want, it wont save them and it wont stop consumers from receiving chargebacks from a scam company!
I have been a supporter of XDA since 06 and I have never seen such a scam as this I now urge XDA to shut down this scam and part themselves from this fraud! I know this is a scam and you Le Fish should be reported, reported!
Please feel free to report me to the moderators and admins and whomever else you please. In fact, I insist. I would also like what ever comes of this to be posted in this thread and stickied for all to see.
It's obvious that homer285 doesn't really contribute to XDA since they have been a member for 8 years and only have a thanks rating of 23. This posting reflects that lack of a contribution.
Lokifish Marz is not Laurent Le Pen.
Research before you post in the future.
I don't think I need to contribute to this topic. Everyone else said enough.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
Hey Homer...
U MAD BRO?
Mr Le Martian Fish... If I send you my ts, would you sign it as LeFish? I swear I'll put it on a glass case and save it for eternity..... This is just epic!
Some people deserve a high five.... In the head.... With a chair...!
WoooW man - you should really find a hobby...
This isn't funny - it's sad...
Why do you even connect XDA and Omate?
XDA is devs forum/portal and there's no connection between them.
Omate TS is out for many users and they have evey right to develop and share apps and infos.
I'm October dev too, so what?!
First, read KS "rules" - there's no 100% ETA, nothing is 100% is KS, that's funding platform and TS isn't first device that has/had some problems...
And the funniest part is - you find time to write that silly post but haven't had decency to read who is who?!
But hey, at least - it's funny, we don't have to read garfield today
Sent from my C6903 using Tapatalk
Isnt it just, because its all about the thanks! Isnt it funny that the thanks button only started a few years ago(Ive been dormant long before that), before that i was partly responsible for bringing a custom ROM to XDA O2 Atom in 06 and HTC HD2 ROM dev, from which I received donations that were substantial, not that I wanted the donations, never-the-less I gave back to XDA and I gave back to devs, ask our most distinguished dev!
.
I have started this thread not to troll but to make other non suspecting users aware of the scam that is Omate and Rocki, believe it or not it is a scam!
I dont even care about the people trying to protect the scam AS ABOVE, I am not going to fall into your trap of troll retaliation, since you are!
Facts are facts and thats life, you replied and now lets let the forum consider what is right.
Cheers
Lokifish Marz said:
Please feel free to report me to the moderators and admins and whomever else you please. In fact, I insist. I would also like what ever comes of this to be posted in this thread and stickied for all to see.
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I did report you, however, I dont think you need more exposure in this section, every second post/thread is yours and whilst I think on one hand, youre a great help, very informative, on the other hand, to every negative post you are fast to protect Omate, even in FB G+ etc you are very fast to protect Omate no-matter-what! Sorry dude as much as I want to think you are just a 'random dev' helping a 'random company' I wasnt born yesterday and neither were the XDA community!
Just get out, before I report you and all your work ends up meaning nothing. I know Laurent, and I know Loki, and they aren't the same person.
The only thing xda is asking at this point is why someone with your "tenure" would throw it away in favor of acting like a stupid child.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
homer285 said:
I have started this thread not to troll but to make other non suspecting users aware of the scam that is Omate and Rocki, believe it or not it is a scam!
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Oh? Is that why in the originating post you're mostly just accusing Lokifish of being Laurent Le Pen? You're attacking a freelance dev, and for what, because Omate shat in your Wheaties? Wow, I know people talk about first world problems, but this takes the cake. I suggest you try going outside sometime, there are WAY worse things in the world then a dev wanting to improve a watch he likes.
So you bought a pre-order from a company you found on kickstarter that was at the time clearly struggling with development and schedules, and you want a medal from us all?
By the time pre-orders opened, wasn't it already clearly known that Omate were part of Umeox (so you knew exactly what you were buying into). And you still jumped in?
This is the most amusing part of the story so far.
homer285 said:
I did report you, however, I dont think you need more exposure in this section, every second post/thread is yours and whilst I think on one hand, youre a great help, very informative, on the other hand, to every negative post you are fast to protect Omate, even in FB G+ etc you are very fast to protect Omate no-matter-what! Sorry dude as much as I want to think you are just a 'random dev' helping a 'random company' I wasnt born yesterday and neither were the XDA community!
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"Le Fish" has no vested financial interest in Omate. I know this to be a fact.
He really is as you say: "just a 'random dev' helping a 'random company'", his only perk being that he was given a watch for development purposes.
And no, I am not part of this "conspiracy" lmao. I have an Omate because I was a KS backer and that is all.
While this has been entertaining, I think it's time to slow your roll on the accusations, because most of what you imply is not based on truth.
For the record - Lokifish Mars is NOT Laurent Le Pen. I know this to be a fact.
I'm going to leave this thread open because maybe some productive discussion may end up out of it. If that turns out a mistake, I will reverse this decision and shut it down.
Have a great day!
Thank you. I did not really feel the need to wade through the Omate employee/troll/fanboy/hater stupidity again. My shrink already gets enough money as it is. :good:
Thanks for not closing thread, maybe I have been hasty in accusations, however, I still stand by my posts, most of what I wrote is fact. No apologies to anyone offended or otherwise, seems arrogant yes, no, it isn't.
Those who have been taken for a ride like myself need to stand up and express their distaste in a less than, OK experience with the fore mentioned and aforementioned company.
Today I was finally replied to by, no not Omate, but Rocki, whom I contacted after nearly 60 days of no reply of 3 emails(politely)to Omate for a refund!
Rocki's reply was patronizing if not belittling to say the least, using ridiculous font size differences within one sentence that made it hard to read and seemed as though they weren't serious in their response. I have already started process for a charge-back from CC company, however I wanted to open this thread to warn others of these terrible business ethics in a hope no more ppl would be scammed!
Im embarrassed to have trolled up an XDA founder(I love fishing, seriously in real life I love it, I dont mean founder is a troll, nor do I mean I am trolling) I have said my piece and peace.
You got a reply about refunding your Omate TrueSmart kickstarter pledge...from Rocki ?
Was it from Cecelia by chance ? I have never been sure if she works or worked for Omate or Rocki or both.
Please share as much of the email's contents as you feel appropriate. I hope you either get your refund soon or your TrueSmart. If you get your watch, don't feed it after midnight !
Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
Ok, just making sure I got this straight.
The original post is basically accusing a dev of being a CEO of a company in a form of a personal attack
The hidden message in that post is to watch out for the company
That message is in fact a horse that's been beaten to death in practically every avenue (Facebook, G+, Here on XDA, Omate Kickstarter, and in the Omate forums). So, in other words, the people being warned were curious enough to come to xda but ignore every other avenue of information regarding the watch, including other posts on XDA. Furthermore, instead of having a clear topic title like "WARNING blah blah", it's called "awesome watch"
Yet this is to warn...I think I'm missing something. Must be good drugs.
@ Homer: although I do understand you are frustrated with Omate, I hope you realized by now you were wrong in your accusations about Loki. I can say with certainty that you haven't been following these threads for the last 3+ months, otherwise you would have known Loki doesn't hide under his avatar, had his real name revealed on a few occasions, and I even remember he posted a picture of some smartwatch package he received with a full disclosure of his mailing address. I don't know where the original quote in your 1st post came from, but it sounds like PM exchange with some personal info (reference to Loki's paypal account) where you should have used a better judgment regarding what to reveal.
You want to voice your dissatisfaction with a company, this is a free forum and you have every right to share your opinion. But attacking one of the members who put so much work into this project and who has been nothing but a help to everyone in here - I insist that you DO owe him an apology. I don't care if you want to post it here or send him a PM, but do the right thing man. If you have beef with Omate, take it up with them, but a freelance developer and a father of newborn baby who spent so much of his time working on the device because he wants to help others, doesn't deserve this crap.
A blind man and his guide dog enter a bar and find their way to a barstool. After ordering a drink, and sitting there for a while, the blind guy yells to the bartender,
"Hey, you wanna hear a blonde joke ?"
The bar immediately becomes absolutely quiet. In a husky, deep voice, the woman next to him says,
"Before you tell that joke, you should know something.The bartender is blonde, the bouncer is blonde, and I'm a 6' tall, 200 lb.blonde with a black belt in karate. What's more, the woman sitting next to me is blonde and she's a weight lifter. The lady to your right is a blonde, and she's a wrestler. Think about it seriously, Mister. You still wanna tell that joke?"
The blind guy says, "Nah, not if I'm gonna have to explain it five times."
Thread closed!
homer285 said:
A blind man and his guide dog enter a bar and find their way to a barstool. After ordering a drink, and sitting there for a while, the blind guy yells to the bartender,
"Hey, you wanna hear a blonde joke ?"
The bar immediately becomes absolutely quiet. In a husky, deep voice, the woman next to him says,
"Before you tell that joke, you should know something.The bartender is blonde, the bouncer is blonde, and I'm a 6' tall, 200 lb.blonde with a black belt in karate. What's more, the woman sitting next to me is blonde and she's a weight lifter. The lady to your right is a blonde, and she's a wrestler. Think about it seriously, Mister. You still wanna tell that joke?"
The blind guy says, "Nah, not if I'm gonna have to explain it five times."
Thread closed!
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You forgot to add that "his" guide dog is in your avatar picture
Btw, I was made aware that PP quote came from another public post by Loki, another example that guy has nothing to hide...
After 3 months I have finally got a response and refund, however, with currency exchange I have lost money and that is unacceptable!
If you have issues with Omate then I strongly recommend you contact not Omate but Rocki, they were instantly helpful and got the refund done in days.