Related
I will edit the post as other suggestions come in.
This is what I am doing and it works very well for me. Keeping all things equal... meaning keeping your screen brightness the same, keeping you live wallpaper if you have it you should see major improvement in battery life.
Draining a new battery to 0 and charging to 100 percent several times will help extend the battery life.
Anker 1930mah I find add 20 percent better life.
I have stock HTC 1 by 1 widgets on my home screen that allow me to easily manage wifi, mobile data, sync and airplane mode. I suggest turning off backround data and auto sync.
New Energy ROM and stock videotron kernel is the best battery life by far and it a awesome Rom.
OC_daemon comes with energy rom.. i use it to drastically reduce your cpu speeds when screen is off and even can reduce when the screen is on if you do not run a lot of widgets / high demand apps...
Let me know how it works for you...
Preaak said:
I will edit the post as other suggestions come in.
This is what I am doing and it works very well for me. Keeping all things equal... meaning keeping your screen brightness the same, keeping you live wallpaper if you have it you should see major improvement in battery life.
Draining a new battery to 0 and charging to 100 percent several times will help extend the battery life.
Anker 1930mah I find add 20 percent better life.
I have stock HTC 1 by 1 widgets on my home screen that allow me to easily manage wifi, mobile data, sync and airplane mode. I suggest turning off backround data and auto sync.
New Energy ROM and stock videotron kernel is the best battery life by far and it a awesome Rom.
OC_daemon comes with energy rom.. i use it to drastically reduce your cpu speeds when screen is off and even can reduce when the screen is on if you do not run a lot of widgets / high demand apps...
Let me know how it works for you...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
for the last time, lithium ions have been out for over a decade now...they do not have memory so there is no need to cycle these batteries...draining the battery and overcharging it is actually bad for lithium ions...lithium ion batteries must be in a constant state of charge and discharge to extend battery life...draining to 0 and 100 only recalibrates the accuracy of how much battery that your phone shows that is actually left in your battery. also draining the battery and overcharging lithium ions is a very bad idea and will significantly decrease the life of the battery...
the other points are absolutely true and valid and recommended
seansk said:
for the last time, lithium ions have been out for over a decade now...they do not have memory so there is no need to cycle these batteries...draining the battery and overcharging it is actually bad for lithium ions...lithium ion batteries must be in a constant state of charge and discharge to extend battery life...draining to 0 and 100 only recalibrates the accuracy of how much battery that your phone shows that is actually left in your battery. also draining the battery and overcharging lithium ions is a very bad idea and will significantly decrease the life of the battery...
the other points are absolutely true and valid and recommended
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I never suggest overcharging your battery and battery memory is not the reason for a full charge and discharge.
Fully charging battery helps the phone properly read your battery and use the battery output evenly. The batteries drains at a more constant rate.. I would say it settled down.
According to Anker... to reach the best performance, full charge and discharge your new battery for 4 to 5 times.
I know you do not agree but that is my experience and that is what the maker of the battery suggest. So this should be done.
Preaak said:
I never suggest overcharging your battery.
According to Anker... to reach the best performance, full charge and discharge your new battery for 4 to 5 times.
After doing this the batteries drained at a more constant rate.. I would say it settled down. I know you do not agree but that is my experience and that is what the maker of the battery suggest. So this should be done.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know what you're talking about. It's an old mentality that refuses to Die form years of using Ni-Cd batteries. I have a post about this somewhere I just can't find it. search up battery university lithium ion on google. It'll tell you lots more. If this was true all companies with lithium ions would tell you to charge and discharge multiple times...but newer companies like samsung and sony don't even recommend this and they just ell you to charge until full, on many of their products with lith ion now.
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/charging_lithium_ion_batteries
Li-ion does not need to be fully charged, as is the case with lead acid, nor is it desirable to do so. In fact, it is better not to fully charge, because high voltages stresses the battery. Choosing a lower voltage threshold, or eliminating the saturation charge altogether, prolongs battery life but this reduces the runtime. Since the consumer market promotes maximum runtime, these chargers go for maximum capacity rather than extended service life.
there are more articles in other places just got lazy lol
seansk said:
I know what you're talking about. It's an old mentality that refuses to Die form years of using Ni-Cd batteries. I have a post about this somewhere I just can't find it. search up battery university lithium ion on google. It'll tell you lots more. If this was true all companies with lithium ions would tell you to charge and discharge multiple times...but newer companies like samsung and sony don't even recommend this and they just ell you to charge until full, on many of their products with lith ion now.
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/charging_lithium_ion_batteries
Li-ion does not need to be fully charged, as is the case with lead acid, nor is it desirable to do so. In fact, it is better not to fully charge, because high voltages stresses the battery. Choosing a lower voltage threshold, or eliminating the saturation charge altogether, prolongs battery life but this reduces the runtime. Since the consumer market promotes maximum runtime, these chargers go for maximum capacity rather than extended service life.
there are more articles in other places just got lazy lol
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Those test mean very little because in the real world those batteries have to work our phones and not a artificial charge / discharge cycle... Meaning fully charging and discharging you battery allows your phone to properly read your battery and use the battery output evenly.
I would also point out that in that article does not say that a full charge and discharge of only 4 or 5 times will reduce service life. Yes doing this habitually will...
Preaak said:
Those test mean very little because in the real world those batteries have to work our phones and not a artificial charge / discharge cycle... Meaning fully charging and discharging you battery allows allows your phone to properly read your battery and use the battery output evenly.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
correct...the only thing that cycling a lithium ion does it to read the battery life properly...it will not affect battery life at all, unlike older ni-cd. its a race between getting a longer battery life or a longer runtime...if you want you battery to last...then i suggest you don't charge to 100 percent and you don't let you phone die...if you want more runtime which is what everyone wants, then you have to charge to 100...but as many people notice...going from 80 to 100 takes a long time while going from lets say 20 to 80 takes the same amount of time...also battery drains very quickly from 100 to around 80 percent..
my only point was that you do not need to cycle your battery multiple times. Once time should be enough for you phone to get a good handle on your calibration...besides you can always recalibrate the readout using an app.
If I have lots of widgets, can that suck more battery, also, my network is off all day, turn it on whenever I need it, and sync is off too.
Sent from my HTC_Amaze_4G using Xparent Green Tapatalk
I'm running Liquid Smooth 3.2 with Imoseyon Lean 6.2.1 kernel. I also tried to activate the speed tweaks included (?) but it didn't work so I downloaded speed tweaks 7.1 from Imoseyon's website and flashed it.
This is my problem.. I understand that with this kernel USB fast charging works unless the battery temp gets too high, then it shuts off and I assume goes back to standard charging. I've been using the kernel for about six hours and the battery temp has been in the low to mid thirties mostly, so that's great.. But my voltage has gotten up slightly over 4200 a couple of times and that has driven the battery temp up, but not much. I use a battery monitor widget that sounds an alarm if the temp or voltage get outside of my defined ranges.
What I would like to know whether there is a way to keep the voltage in a safer range when the phone is fast charging? I think if the fast charge could be stopped when the voltage is above 4200 or below 3000 like it is when the battery temp gets too high would be a great feature, and it would ease my mind that the voltage won't spike to 4300 or 4400 and blow up while I'm sleeping at night (if I happen to not hear battery monitor alarm).
If that's just the way it is with the voltage spikes, does anyone maybe know of a kernel/rom combo that safely allows fast charging by keeping the battery temp and voltage in recommended ranges or by shutting fast charge off if the temp/voltage suddenly spike while on the charger?
Thanks for reading/considering my question.
I'm not 100% sure but isn't the reason fast changing works is because it bumps up he voltage. Wouldn't lowering it make it not charge as fast.
Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2
Not sure
I looked at my battery history and I think you're right. The voltage has spiked quickly and then steadily climbed past 4200, but the charge in that time frame is like 60+ percent so it's worth it I guess. Figure I'm hurting the battery, but for now it's worth it. I I may get an iphone 5 if the features are right.
I guess I'll just have to find a toggle so I can leave it on the charger at night and not have to worry about it catching fire. Just out of curiosity, does anyone know about how long a lithium battery can charge above 4200 or below 3000 before it blows up?
Also, this is my first phone with a 4.3 inch screen.. Do all big display phones suffer from terrible battery life? I keep my brightness down to about 20% indoors, but I generally keep 4g on because 3g tends to drop the signal and I play Pokerist a lot at work. Don't like getting kicked off and having to sign back in when I'm all in in a hand. I guess it also could be that the game is taxing the processor and in combination with 4g wrecking my battery life.. Mainly though, and on a custom rom without a fast usb charging feature, I couldn't play and charge at the same time, the phone would just barely stay at the percentage it was at. My last question is, does anyone know of a phone with a large display and 4g that doesn't drain the battery as quickly as Thunderbolt, or that at least charges fairly fast while using phone without having to flash a fast usb charging kernel?
edit: I can't find an app or widget that will allow me to toggle between normal charging and fast usb charging.. Anyone know of one for Thunderbolt?
Most of the new 4G phones with the 4.3 inch screen suffer from batter drain. The razr maxx is the best stock phone for battery right now but the phones just aren't built well. I think the newer phones are getting better so I would wait a little while longer and see what is coming out soon. The battery issue won't be a problem forever and neither will the crappy data drops.
Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2
The spike in voltage and temperature is a NORMAL behavior of this type of battery and the charging technology it uses. As a Li-on battery discharges, it's voltage drops very little for it's corresponding level of charge (Very useful in small electronics that require excellent power consistency.). As the battery nears fully discharged, the voltage begins to drop sharply as does the resistance of the battery. Shortly after that, the internal temperature rises. You are now damaging your battery to further discharge it. You're phone won't let you do this. Likewise, it won't allow you to overcharge it. A Li-on battery is determined to be fully charged when the voltage output begins to rise sharply over the nominal charge rate. The internal resistance of the battery will rise sharply as well. The you'll notice temperature rise. Depending upon other conditions, a significant rise in cell temperature doesn't necessarily indicate a charged battery. If the resistance and voltage are consistent, the battery isn't fully charged but rather exhibiting the normal rise in temperature as resistance rises. You'd be pretty shocked how hot it really has to get before the phone will simply shut itself off and refuse to power up for half an hour or more to avoid actually damaging the battery due to thermal stress. Think hot, dark stone sitting in the hot sun all day long. And that cut-off, as far as I know, is below what the battery is actually rated for.
You're HTC device uses neither voltage, resistance, nor temperature independently to determine a charged or discharged state. That is calculated through compiled statistics based upon load, voltage output, resistance, and temperature. Li-on is a very well understood technology. The ONLY way to obtain the life and performance from these batteries that they do is to have fairly advanced charging and monitoring technology. It's really pretty hard to destroy a phone or it's battery strictly through heat generated by charging (assuming all parts meet spec.). In fact, it's hard to even if the phone is sitting on a heating vent or under the hot sunlight.
Unless you're device is some brutally overclocked, customized to the gills monster of a device, narrowly switching transistors at ridiculous speeds with precious few electrons to spare, you're pretty hard pressed to damage your battery or your phone. The stuff that manages the battery is beyond what kernels and ROMs do. You can definitely do some meaningful damage to a battery messing with charge characteristics, however catastrophic failure is practically impossible.
Anybody have tips on the subject? I was reading around and read multiple articles on this. Many said do not keep it on the charger after it has reached 100%. This poses a problem, because the G2 will charge from 0-100 in nearly 1 hour and 30 minutes, and i like to keep it on the charger while i sleep. Does the G2 have software to prevent this? It does say to please remove charger to conserve energy when its full.
Any replies are much appreciated
Sent from my LG-D800 using xda app-developers app
Well i read also that you shouldnt charge it to 100% frequently
2. You shouldnt let the battery charge drop under 20 frequently Before recharging
3. You shouldnt let the battery run out of charge frequently because our battery will get damaged if u do that quite often
so beware of this point
And they said it's not best to let the phone charge over night frequently
Sent from my LG-D802 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
I am no expert in this area - but this is what i do and i seem to get great battery life. i just looked, my device has been on battery for 3.5 hours and i'm still at 100% with usage in the following areas...
Google serviced - 29%
Android system - 22%
Screen - 17%
this is with wifi on, approx 5 min worth of voice calling, and several text messages, couple min of facebook and G+. i am not rooted, running stock launcher with most recent tmobile software update (unlocked and using it on Bell).
I hard reset my device once a month (minimum) - not sure if this does anything, but i am a little OCD when it come to my devices.
Before hard reset...
1. charge device to 100%
2. keep device plugged in for ~15 min after fully charged. The unplug.
3. hard reset device
4. once booted, plug device in a proceed to setup and install programs
5. unplug device once complete
During the day...
I always keep it charged up...i dont usually let it get below 75% (if possible). I'm always around a charger/plug at my work.
During the night...
1. charge device to 100% before going to bed
2. before you go to sleep, unplug device and put it in airplane mode
3. when you get up - turn off airplane mode and plug in for ~15 min or so
Again - im no expert, but this is working for me so imma stick to it!
It is not recommended to keep your phone plugged in after it has reached 100%. Only do it when you need an extra battery boost for the day (and that's hopefully not every day).
The general rule is to charge it from 40%-80% and that partial charges are better than full charges.
I really wish people would stop with the "don't keep it on the charger" nonsense which then makes people think they need to micromanage the charge cycle.
Charge early and often. Don't intentionally drain it down to some low percent, just charge nightly and you should be fine. If you're heavily using the phone, try to avoid dropping below 30%. Heavier discharges cause faster ageing.
And avoid keeping it in a hot environment, north of 30C. If it's your car GPS, keep a vent blowing cool air on it, especially in the summer. During the winter make sure a vent isn't blowing hot air on it.
Heat is probably the primary variable in battery life, followed by heavy discharge cycles.
Do whatever you want regarding keeping it charging after it's full. But disagreeing doesn't make your statement correct. I do agree with your statements about heat, however.
Sent from my LG-D802 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
just charge the thing and use it, I have a Samsung Galaxy S2 2-3 years ago the battery still going strong, most of you dont even own a phone past a year.
I usually make my phone go as long as it can. My previous phone, an iPhone 4, lasted almost three years.
Sent from my LG-D802 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
vPro97 said:
I usually make my phone go as long as it can. My previous phone, an iPhone 4, lasted almost three years.
Sent from my LG-D802 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the battery will last 3 years, its lithium battery, some people still own old phones like Iphone 4 and the battery still good.
battery is battery, just dont let it over heat and it'll be fine. stop trying to squeeze every second out of the battery and enjoy the phone...
I always thought it stopped charging at 100 but when it looses a little bit on the charger it charges it back. I thought that's why it said to conserve energy....as in energy from your house.
Sent from my VS980 4G using xda app-developers app
It's an established fact that keeping the phone at charged state between 40%-80% is most optimal (causes least stress) for the battery.
But of course, don't let that get in the way of your daily usage routine and cause you incovenience.
Battery is, afterall, consumable and is meant to be replaced.
I'm afraid there are lots of ill-informed people who insist that their batteries do not deteriorate. Congrats to them, they just find the solution that solves the global energy crisis.
How Often Should I Charge My Gadget's Battery to Prolong Its Lifespan?
http://lifehacker.com/5875162/how-often-should-i-charge-my-gadgets-battery-to-prolong-its-lifespan
If you like to get more technical, there's good information from the Pros.
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
Here's my notes from a few years ago.
--------------------------------------------------------
Li-Ion Battery
(From Wiki) During discharge, lithium ions Li+ carry the current from the negative to the positive electrode, through the non-aqueous electrolyte
and separator diaphragm.[7]
During charging, an external electrical power source (the charging circuit) applies a higher voltage (but of the same polarity) than that
produced by the battery, forcing the current to pass in the reverse direction. The lithium ions then migrate from the positive to the
negative electrode, where they become embedded in the porous electrode material in a process known as intercalation.
Prolonging battery pack life (from wiki)
+ Avoid deep discharge and instead charge more often between uses, the smaller the depth of discharge, the longer the battery will last.
+ Avoid storing the battery in full discharged state.
+ Li-ion batteries should be kept cool; they may be stored in a refrigerator.
+ The rate of degradation of Li-ion batteries is strongly temperature-dependent; they degrade much faster if stored or used at higher temperatures.
+ Li-ion has no memory effect.
+ Li-ion does not need to be fully charged.
+ In fact, it is better NOT to fully charge, because high voltages stresses the battery.
+ Li-ion cannot absorb overcharge, and when fully charged the charge current must be cut off =>
+ To minimize stress, keep the lithium-ion battery at the 4.20V/cell peak voltage as short a time as possible. (meaning do NOT overcharge)
+ Some portable devices sit in a charge cradle in the on position. The current drawn through the device is called the parasitic load and
can distort the charge cycle. Battery manufacturers advise against parasitic load because it induces mini-cycles.
What does that mean to us? Don't use when it's plugged in?
+ A portable device must be turned off during charge. This allows the battery to reach the set threshold voltage unhindered, and enables terminating charge on low current.
+ Li-ion should never be discharged too low.
+ Do not recharge lithium-ion if a cell has stayed at or below 1.5V for more than a week.
Simple Guidelines for Charging Lithium-based Batteries (from batteryuniversity.com)
+ A portable device should be turned off while charging. This allows the battery to reach
the threshold voltage unhindered and reflects the correct saturation current responsible to
terminate the charge. A parasitic load confuses the charger.
+ Charge at a moderate temperature. Do not charge below freezing.
+ Lithium-ion does not need to be fully charged; a partial charge is better.
+ Chargers use different methods for “ready” indication. The light signal may not always indicate a full charge.
+ Discontinue using charger and/or battery if the battery gets excessively warm.
+ Before prolonged storage, apply some charge to bring the pack to about half charge.
+ Over-discharged batteries can be “boosted” to life again. Discard pack if the voltage does not rise to a normal level within a minute while on boost.
Conclusion:
+ A portable device should be turned off while charging.
+ Avoid deep discharge and instead charge more often between uses.
+ Lithium-ion does not need to be fully charged; a partial charge is better.
G1_enthusiast said:
just charge the thing and use it, I have a Samsung Galaxy S2 2-3 years ago the battery still going strong, most of you dont even own a phone past a year.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've had (and still have) the Samsung Galaxy S2 for over 2 years, and I had to replace the battery a little over half a year ago due to the dreaded battery bulge (I could spin my battery on the table). So yes, batteries do go bad and they can go bad in a short period of time. And yes, if this happens to the G2 with its non-removeable battery, that really sucks.
beezar said:
I've had (and still have) the Samsung Galaxy S2 for over 2 years, and I had to replace the battery a little over half a year ago due to the dreaded battery bulge (I could spin my battery on the table). So yes, batteries do go bad and they can go bad in a short period of time. And yes, if this happens to the G2 with its non-removeable battery, that really sucks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
did you leave it in 150 degrees heat?
I almost always turn off my phone if I know its gonna be 100+ outside and 150 in my car. its commonsense.
votinh said:
Here's my notes from a few years ago.
--------------------------------------------------------
Li-Ion Battery
(From Wiki) During discharge, lithium ions Li+ carry the current from the negative to the positive electrode, through the non-aqueous electrolyte
and separator diaphragm.[7]
During charging, an external electrical power source (the charging circuit) applies a higher voltage (but of the same polarity) than that
produced by the battery, forcing the current to pass in the reverse direction. The lithium ions then migrate from the positive to the
negative electrode, where they become embedded in the porous electrode material in a process known as intercalation.
Prolonging battery pack life (from wiki)
+ Avoid deep discharge and instead charge more often between uses, the smaller the depth of discharge, the longer the battery will last.
+ Avoid storing the battery in full discharged state.
+ Li-ion batteries should be kept cool; they may be stored in a refrigerator.
+ The rate of degradation of Li-ion batteries is strongly temperature-dependent; they degrade much faster if stored or used at higher temperatures.
+ Li-ion has no memory effect.
+ Li-ion does not need to be fully charged.
+ In fact, it is better NOT to fully charge, because high voltages stresses the battery.
+ Li-ion cannot absorb overcharge, and when fully charged the charge current must be cut off =>
+ To minimize stress, keep the lithium-ion battery at the 4.20V/cell peak voltage as short a time as possible. (meaning do NOT overcharge)
+ Some portable devices sit in a charge cradle in the on position. The current drawn through the device is called the parasitic load and
can distort the charge cycle. Battery manufacturers advise against parasitic load because it induces mini-cycles.
What does that mean to us? Don't use when it's plugged in?
+ A portable device must be turned off during charge. This allows the battery to reach the set threshold voltage unhindered, and enables terminating charge on low current.
+ Li-ion should never be discharged too low.
+ Do not recharge lithium-ion if a cell has stayed at or below 1.5V for more than a week.
Simple Guidelines for Charging Lithium-based Batteries (from batteryuniversity.com)
+ A portable device should be turned off while charging. This allows the battery to reach
the threshold voltage unhindered and reflects the correct saturation current responsible to
terminate the charge. A parasitic load confuses the charger.
+ Charge at a moderate temperature. Do not charge below freezing.
+ Lithium-ion does not need to be fully charged; a partial charge is better.
+ Chargers use different methods for “ready” indication. The light signal may not always indicate a full charge.
+ Discontinue using charger and/or battery if the battery gets excessively warm.
+ Before prolonged storage, apply some charge to bring the pack to about half charge.
+ Over-discharged batteries can be “boosted” to life again. Discard pack if the voltage does not rise to a normal level within a minute while on boost.
Conclusion:
+ A portable device should be turned off while charging.
+ Avoid deep discharge and instead charge more often between uses.
+ Lithium-ion does not need to be fully charged; a partial charge is better.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just because it is on a wiki does not mean it is correct. Anyone that purports that current flows from negative to positive, is clearly not an engineer, and thus not a subject matter expert (I stopped reading right there so excuse if I'm repeating).
Heat, be it from charging, discharging, or environment, and over discharge, or improper charging are the primary reasons batteries lose capacity. Lithium polymer batteries will lose some of its initial capacity after a thousand or so charge-discharge cycles, but this is very much dependent on the charging rate used to charge the battery. If the charge rate is 0.5C or less, there is much less capacity loss (if any) over time. Charge rates of 1C and over, generate significant heat that deteriorates the cell chemistry over time, reducing capacity.
If I can ever kill my battery enough, I'll throw this phone on my charge profiler at work to see what charge rate it uses.
BTW, my two year old GSII is on its original battery and lasts all day with 40% left at the end of the day. I charge over night with no ill effects, but I never expose the phone to excessive heat.
T
Sent from my VS980 4G using Tapatalk 2
I slow charge my phone using a 500mA iPhone Cube brick and microUSB cable for overnight charging. Charging this way takes hours. I use quick charge in my car and office if needed.
A good charger should trickle charge once its 100% just to keep it up.
Sent from my VS980 4G using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
So our phones do not come with a good charger?
Sent from my VS980 4G using xda app-developers app
tedkunich said:
Just because it is on a wiki does not mean it is correct. Anyone that purports that current flows from negative to positive, is clearly not an engineer, and thus not a subject matter expert (I stopped reading right there so excuse if I'm repeating).
Heat, be it from charging, discharging, or environment, and over discharge, or improper charging are the primary reasons batteries lose capacity. Lithium polymer batteries will lose some of its initial capacity after a thousand or so charge-discharge cycles, but this is very much dependent on the charging rate used to charge the battery. If the charge rate is 0.5C or less, there is much less capacity loss (if any) over time. Charge rates of 1C and over, generate significant heat that deteriorates the cell chemistry over time, reducing capacity.
If I can ever kill my battery enough, I'll throw this phone on my charge profiler at work to see what charge rate it uses.
BTW, my two year old GSII is on its original battery and lasts all day with 40% left at the end of the day. I charge over night with no ill effects, but I never expose the phone to excessive heat.
T
Sent from my VS980 4G using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You quoted my post to say that info on Wiki and Battery University is wrong? and giving an example of charging your SGS2 overnite with no ill effects to prove them wrong?
votinh said:
You quoted my post to say that info on Wiki and Battery University is wrong? and giving an example of charging your SGS2 overnite with no ill effects to prove them wrong?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Like I said, I stopped reading the moment they stated the incorrect definition of current flow - if they got that basic tenant wrong, wasn't going to read further. Was not my intent to offend by quoting your post. My comment on the charging overnight was a general response to a prior post that leaving the device on the charger overnight was detrimental to the battery - probably should have quoted that post. In general, leaving an advanced device like a cellphone plugged into a charger will not overcharge a battery - a cheap toy will probably not have a proper charger and CAN damage a cell if left on for prolonged periods.
BTW, I'm an EE and design in Li-po batteries and chargers in my designs and I'm always dealing with non-technical marketing and sales folks to explain these types of details, so I tend to jump in when I hear wrong information (not saying the links contained false information) being discussed.
T
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
votinh said:
Here's my notes from a few years ago.
--------------------------------------------------------
Li-Ion Battery
(From Wiki) During discharge, lithium ions Li+ carry the current from the negative to the positive electrode, through the non-aqueous electrolyte
and separator diaphragm.[7]
During charging, an external electrical power source (the charging circuit) applies a higher voltage (but of the same polarity) than that
produced by the battery, forcing the current to pass in the reverse direction. The lithium ions then migrate from the positive to the
negative electrode, where they become embedded in the porous electrode material in a process known as intercalation.
Prolonging battery pack life (from wiki)
+ Avoid deep discharge and instead charge more often between uses, the smaller the depth of discharge, the longer the battery will last.
+ Avoid storing the battery in full discharged state.
+ Li-ion batteries should be kept cool; they may be stored in a refrigerator.
+ The rate of degradation of Li-ion batteries is strongly temperature-dependent; they degrade much faster if stored or used at higher temperatures.
+ Li-ion has no memory effect.
+ Li-ion does not need to be fully charged.
+ In fact, it is better NOT to fully charge, because high voltages stresses the battery.
+ Li-ion cannot absorb overcharge, and when fully charged the charge current must be cut off =>
+ To minimize stress, keep the lithium-ion battery at the 4.20V/cell peak voltage as short a time as possible. (meaning do NOT overcharge)
+ Some portable devices sit in a charge cradle in the on position. The current drawn through the device is called the parasitic load and
can distort the charge cycle. Battery manufacturers advise against parasitic load because it induces mini-cycles.
What does that mean to us? Don't use when it's plugged in?
+ A portable device must be turned off during charge. This allows the battery to reach the set threshold voltage unhindered, and enables terminating charge on low current.
+ Li-ion should never be discharged too low.
+ Do not recharge lithium-ion if a cell has stayed at or below 1.5V for more than a week.
Simple Guidelines for Charging Lithium-based Batteries (from batteryuniversity.com)
+ A portable device should be turned off while charging. This allows the battery to reach
the threshold voltage unhindered and reflects the correct saturation current responsible to
terminate the charge. A parasitic load confuses the charger.
+ Charge at a moderate temperature. Do not charge below freezing.
+ Lithium-ion does not need to be fully charged; a partial charge is better.
+ Chargers use different methods for “ready” indication. The light signal may not always indicate a full charge.
+ Discontinue using charger and/or battery if the battery gets excessively warm.
+ Before prolonged storage, apply some charge to bring the pack to about half charge.
+ Over-discharged batteries can be “boosted” to life again. Discard pack if the voltage does not rise to a normal level within a minute while on boost.
Conclusion:
+ A portable device should be turned off while charging.
+ Avoid deep discharge and instead charge more often between uses.
+ Lithium-ion does not need to be fully charged; a partial charge is better.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Does this wall of text pertain to lithium polymer as well? Consdering that is the type of battery in the phone not ion
Sent from my LG-VS980
I have been reading these days that some of you are starting to replace the battery of the Axon 7 after 1.5-2 years. This is something we all have experienced with phones, laptops, wireless devices, etc. About 2 years ago I researched on batteries and finally discovered how to avoid the degradation in Lithium-Ion batteries. I have applied it to my Dell XPS 13 Laptop and my Axon 7 with excellent results. Due to the recent proliferation of battery replacement I think this guide can be useful to extend the useful life of your battery.
Battery wear is something that can be reduced to almost nothing with proper charging habits. But there are some urban legends out there completely false. Lets review all them:
Do NEVER charge it over 90%: TRUE. The battery wears a lot when charging the last 10%. actually charging up to 90% takes about 10% of a degradation cycle while the last 10% takes 90% of the degradation cycle. Charging to 90%, only this trick, can reduce the wear of your battery to 1/10 or even more if you stop at 80%. I use to stop at 84%.
Do NEVER drain your battery completely: TRUE. The high current required to pull the energy stored in the battery when the level is so low requires more time per energy unit and that initial 10% wears the battery excessively. So taking care of that will save your battery too. I use to set low battery mode at 15% but I always avoid being so low. Please note that leaving the battery drained for too long can make it impossible to charge. IMPORTANT: If you are not going to use a device for some time, leave battery between 40-70%, not more, not less. If you do not do that, you can have an ugly surprise in case you need it again.
Quick Charge is bad for batteries: FALSE. It is actually the opposite. QC is a lot healthier since the battery is not heated for a long time. Heat is a problem too for the battery. So, try to avoid old charging units as possible and use only QC 3.0 chargers for car and home as much as possible.
Short charging sessions damage the battery: FALSE. A number of small charging sessions in the healthy region between 20-80% battery level is healthier than a long session for several reasons, the most important is that the battery temperature never rises that much.
I have been doing this in my devices and my Axon 7 retains the same energy storage as new after 18 months of healthy charging habits. These advises are also applicable to laptops and any other device using a Li-ion battery. As you can see, leaving your phone plugged at night will kill your battery very quickly the same way a laptop battery wears quickly when left plugged. I am lucky my Dell XPS 13 has a battery control software/firmware that allows charging to stop at a desired value automatically so I can have it plugged without actually charging. I was looking for a similar solution for the Axon 7 and I found it some time ago.
It was very annoying being on top of the device taking care of the battery level when charging. There are some apps out there that monitors the battery level while charging and signal an alarm when the desired maximum charge level is reached. But we are lucky!!!! The latest Custom Oreo Kernels for the Axon 7 support the charging_enable switch and we can use now Battery Charge Limit App to modify the max battery value. Two main values can be set, the max allowed charge and the recharge level. The first one is the most interesting since the charging will stop at that level. I have 84% set here but any value between 80%-90% is safe and healthy for your battery. The second value tells the system to avoid starting a charging session if the value is still above the second threshold. It is designed to avoid rapid charge/discharge sessions. Usually a value between 4-8% under the max value is safe and healthy. I have this second value set to 79%.
With this daemon your battery will never reach 100% and with it you will avoid excessive battery degradation. It worked for me so I hope you could benefit of it too. On the other side, just avoid drain your battery too much and do not fear short charging sessions during your car commuting time or while in the shower, etc... These little tricks sum and you will save the money and damages in your unit replacing a battery you probably could have avoided with proper battery care.
Cheers!!!!
Some are not false urban legends at all. On the contrary I see lots of false claims with no source evidence.
Limiting by percentage still allows the battery voltage to reach higher shorter lifespan voltage. See that limit apps thread for discussion on limiting by voltage through Tasker instead. Further do you know what voltage that percentage idles at? It varies by device implementation setup.
Here's some information on voltage level health.
"Additionally, when the cathode voltage rises past 4.2 V, the electrolyte begins to oxidize (and ultimately decompose). This effectively limits present-day lithium-ion batteries to a maximum voltage of 4.35 V with the understanding that the “bad stuff” begins to occur past 4.0 V, and becomes unsafe past 4.35 V."
https://qnovo.com/why-battery-vendors-are-hitting-the-wall
Got a reliable source for quick charge not harming battery life? I've only seen marketing material and such claims repeated but not any research or scientific sources.
Sent from my ZTE Axon 7 using XDA Labs
Infy_AsiX said:
Some are not false urban legends at all. On the contrary I see lots of false claims with no source evidence.
Limiting by percentage still allows the battery voltage to reach higher shorter lifespan voltage. See that limit apps thread for discussion on limiting by voltage through Tasker instead. Further do you know what voltage that percentage idles at? It varies by device implementation setup.
Here's some information on voltage level health.
"Additionally, when the cathode voltage rises past 4.2 V, the electrolyte begins to oxidize (and ultimately decompose). This effectively limits present-day lithium-ion batteries to a maximum voltage of 4.35 V with the understanding that the “bad stuff” begins to occur past 4.0 V, and becomes unsafe past 4.35 V."
https://qnovo.com/why-battery-vendors-are-hitting-the-wall
Got a reliable source for quick charge not harming battery life? I've only seen marketing material and such claims repeated but not any research or scientific sources.
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Thanks for the info. However it is not easy to control the voltage of the cathode and the OP guide tries to use the available tools.
If you never fully charge how would you know if it's capacity is still near maximum?
I've kind of followed this idea for a while now ..
I always charge to a full 100% but never let the battery go completely flat ...
My Moto G is still running the same battery from new ...
My Axon 7 running Oreo is getting 4 days before it needs to be charged at normal usage..(recharge @ 15%) at the end of day 4
I get 6 days in standby
Oki said:
Quick Charge is bad for batteries: FALSE
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I switched to old weaker chargers (0.5 - 1.0 amp) as there's almost no noticeable heat at all while charging, and I've found this extends the battery life as well. If any/all heat is bad, then aren't short bursts of high heat (3.0 amp QC) worse than long periods of little/no heat (0.5 - 1.0 amp) ?
Sure...
Most all of those "tips" are hogwash.
Modern day charging is handled by the phone. If there's something that hacked that algorithm in my phone, then so be it. :fingers-crossed:
Few years ago I did some research on Lithium-Ion batteries (which behave differently from other kind of batteries, such as lead acid ones for example) and I second all the conclusions by OP. If you are interested on the matter and to understand how batteries work, check this site: https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/ the explanations are crystal clear.
Disclaimer: I have no whatsoever association with the website.
I seem to get reduced maximum capacity even after fresh battery replacements.
Most recently I purchased a new replacement battery from iFixit. With this new battery, just like the previous one I bought a year ago from Amazon, my phone charges the battery to a what seems to be around 80% of its capacity. The maximum voltage when reported charge reaches 100%, as reported by the phone, is 4.225V (according to multiple apps). Capacity as measured by AccuBattery is around 80% or 2800 mAh.
I've tried many things, such as the battery calibration multiple times (both method 1 with USSC codes, and something like method 3 which iFixit recommends), without any major apparent improvement.
Things I am wondering:
Should the battery voltage when at 100% charge be closer to its rated 4.4V than the maximum 4.225V my phone is seemingly able to reach?
Can I expect to see improvements if I keep going through a few cycles of battery calibration and full charge/discharge?
Is there any other way to reset the phone's perception of battery capacity or wear than the battery calibration options?
I found another thread with a similar description to my own experience here.
In 3 years I have replaced battery 4 times, now something odd is happening.
I'll make a note to dig out my old USB tester and check how much total juice is pushed into the phone with a charge from <5% to 100%.
More details of my battery history for more background and for anyone interested:
I used the original battery from purchase in late 2018. My charge pattern for the first 2 years was typically charging to 100% every night, and topping up during the day as necessary.
During winter 2020 it performed terrible in the cold (not any extreme cold, only around 0 C), and once drained from around 80% to 35% in less than an hour of continuous use (photos, filming) and then died. After this I changed my charging pattern to where I was keeping the phone from exceeding the 70-40% range as much as possible.
In December 2021 I purchased a replacement battery from Amazon (supposedly original). The original battery was reportedly at 80% capacity says AccuBattery. How reliable that measurement is I don't know (it is all data reported by the phone itself as far as I understand), but the capacity had gradually decreased over the three years of use. I can't recall the voltage readings though, and I don't seem to have any screenshots saved from that view.
The new battery didn't ever seem to be able to exceed the capacity of the 3-year-old original battery (which had gone through over 1,100 charge/discharge cycles as tracked by AccuBattery) that it replaced. It's more stable (especially in cold conditions) but has not brought any increase in usage time compared with the battery it replaced.
With the now 10-months-old Amazon battery, having gone through less than 400 charge/discharge cycles according to AccuBattery (which is relative to the max capacity of approximately 2800 mAh or 80%), my phone in the past month gave me the pop-up notice indicating a poor battery. The capacity reported hasn't changed much over these 10 months of use.
Update with USB tester and comparison with a Samsung Galaxy S5 Neo.
TL;DR: 2800 mWh is the new 3500 mWh
First, S5 Neo.
I have an old S5 Neo, last of its era of Samsung phones with easily replaceable battery. I purchased a new battery for this phone from iFixit in the same order as the S9+ replacement battery.
S5 Neo's battery is rated at 4.4 V (3.85 V nominal) with a 2800 mAh capacity, or 10780 mWh. Depleting the battery and making sure the phone would no longer switch on with the power button, I charged it from 0% to 100%.
After slowly charging for 3 hours at just below 4.8 V and 750 mA for most of the time, the USB tester showed 10780 mWh, and the phone showed 92% charge. At the 3h 30min mark, shortly after reaching 100% (I didn't catch it perfectly), USB tester showed current had dropped to 350 mA and total charge delivered was just over 12000 mWh. After another 10-15 minutes the charge current dropped to zero and total power delivered showed 12326 mWh.
The S5 Neo phone, using the app GSam Battery Monitor while the phone is otherwise idle, it shows an internal battery voltage reading of 4.38 V when fully charged, still plugged in and trickle charging. Once it's saturated (charging icon disappears) the voltage drops to 4.33 V.
Going by the USB tester results and progress shown by the phone, and with the assumption that the battery is able to be charged to its full rated capacity with this old phone, the battery charged to capacity with an efficiency between 87.5% and 92%.
I also captured a few mid-way readings. Here is the complete list of my captured readings including comparison to rated capacity assuming perfect efficiency (with extrapolated total charge for levels below 100%):
100% (charging current at 0.0 A)12326 mWh~114% of rated capacity100% (still charging)12062 mWh~112% of rated capacity92%10780 mWh11717, ~109% of rated capacity81%9291 mWh11470, ~106% of rated capacity62%6440 mWh10387, ~96% of rated capacity33%3160 mWh9575, ~89% of rated capacity19%1868 mWh9831, ~91% of rated capacity
The extrapolated charge to reach max rated capacity is increasing as charge level goes up, which I think is kind of expected. Conversely, the efficiency is a little lower than I would have expected. Still, the total power required to reach 100% exceeds the rated capacity by a fair margin. Better still, the phone itself reports a battery voltage near the battery's rated 4.4 V.
Second, S9+.
As mentioned in the original post, the internal battery voltage max reading is 4.22 V, and the capacity seems to not reach the expected level. Checking the Battery status option of Diagnostics in the Samsung Members app to check the battery, it shows it is in "weak" condition. Resetting all the battery related readings using USSC codes (see battery calibration) doesn't seem to change anything.
The battery is rated at 4.4 V (3.85 V nominal) with a 3500 mA capacity, or 13475 mWh. With fast charging disabled, and after draining the phone until it powered off and would no longer power back on, I started charging via the USB tester. I'm using a Samsung travel charger this time, which delivers a little more current than when I charged the S5 Neo.
Charging starts out at just below 5 V and 1.5 A. Current quickly drops to 1.172 A, and somewhere between 33% and 50% it drops to 1.072 A. This current is stable until beyond 81% and then starts to gradually decrease throughput the rest of the charging cycle. (Actual charging current is slightly lower with screen off vs screen showing current charge level.) This I believe is indicative of the battery capacity (or perhaps rather the phone's perception or expectation of the battery capacity) is below its typical levels. It could also be a difference in how the S9+ charges compared with the S5 Neo, or perhaps less likely a difference between the chargers used, I can't really know for sure with only my two samples. In comparison, the S5 Neo kept charging at essentially the same current level between 0% and 92%.
Again, here are a few mid-way readings, as well as the extrapolated capacity assuming perfect efficiency:
N/A13475 mWhnever reached100% (charge current at 0.0 A)12341 mWh~92% of rated capacity100% (first reached)11982 mWh~89% of rated capacity92%11398 mWh12389, ~92% of rated capacity81%10053 mWh12411, ~92% of rated capacity62%7646 mWh12332, ~92% of rated capacity50%6174 mWh12348, ~92% of rated capacity33%4100 mWh12424, ~92% of rated capacity
Oddly consistent, this ratio between charged power and percentage charge, at around 92% of rated capacity throughout almost all of the charge cycle.
The total power required to reach 100% is very disappointing. Even assuming perfect efficiency, it is well below the battery's rated capacity. Assuming similar efficiency as the S5 Neo at around 90% translates to roughly 80% capacity at full charge. This mimics closely the estimates from AccuBattery, which shows 78% capacity after 12 "full" cycles.
To reach a "saturated" 100% requires equally much power for the S5 Neo as for the S9+, even though the S9+ should have a battery with 25% more capacity.
Now that I have externally validated that my 4-year-old S9+ is only ever able to charge my fresh newly replaced battery to 80% of its rated capacity, I suppose the optimistic view is that it's now a forced charge limit for substantially increased battery longevity. While this is functionality I do want, it is something I'd prefer to have the option to use, and with the ability to top up to 100% when necessary.
If I have the opportunity, I may drop by a Samsung service center and ask if there's anything I can do to reset the battery status, or retrain the phone's perception of battery capacity.
Thank you for coming to my TED talk, and have a great day.