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I received the below e-mail today. I did not appreciate being contacted out of the blue via e-mail; if you feel the need to contact me, use XDA's tagging feature. With that said, I thought I'd reply in public with my thoughts on the matter, hoping to drive a constructive conversation about Verizon Wireless' restrictions for devices on their network. My initial response is in post 2.
Please, think through your responses before posting. Make sure they ADD to the conversation.
What do you think of having everyone from XDA and the CM community using the DINC 4G LTE file Better Business Bureau complaints against verizon? It made a business decision not to give us updates, and has deliberately removed the DINC 4g from the HTC Unlock program. They shouldn't be allowed to abandon the platform and to remove unlocking ability that was there.
BBB asks them to respond within 14 days. [edit: link removed]
or have you already tried this route?
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I will leave it up to the writer of the e-mail if he/she would like to make himself/herself known here.
Can you point to a single advertisement by either HTC or Verizon that the Droid Incredible 4G LTE would ever be included in HTCDev's unlocked bootloader program? Even HTC's generic advertisements include disclaimers that some devices may not be included due to various restrictions (the most obvious being carrier refusal). HTC can justify the ability to unlock the bootloader pre-public availability as a means to let developers directly related to software development and quality assurance alter the ROM before release. To a handful of end users who get the device in the early days of release, they get to sneak in and use the unlocker under the "Other devices" category of the program. I suspect we owe HTC a thank you for dragging their feet for a week before disabling the unlock ability for this (and several other) device(s). There is no legitimate complaint that can be filed towards Verizon concerning this matter since they never advertised this as an available feature.
On the topic of abandoning the platform, software-wise, the last available software update for the Incredible 4G still works with reasonable stability and all advertised features are enabled. It is natural for technology devices to age and need replacement; a balance has to be struck between user content or disdain and extent of support. Verizon has apparently deemed there will be very little blowback by prematurely ending software updates. Considering the number of users I see in the XDA forum section for this phone, I'd guess they're right. About the only sticking point that could be leveraged to force a software update out of Verizon is if there are security vulnerabilities that are either being actively exploited or pose a real threat of being exploited in the near future.
Succinctly, we are at the mercy of Verizon's "generosity" concerning extended functionality of, and software updates for, the phones on their network. With these thoughts, I believe we can only ask them to help us out... with reason, anger, begging, or whatever tactic you find most influential. I don't think we can force their hand.
Your thoughts XDAers?
I agree with mdmower. Having come from the OG Droid, I had zero expectation for HTC or Verizon to let me unlock the phone. While I did not expect this phone to be the left-handed, red-haired step-child twice removed orphan of Verizon, it is a great phone with a 4" screen. The size is good (still prefer OG Droid) and the processor and internet speeds are great. I personally am quite content with this phone. We have been blessed with some extremely talented developers and supporters who have
Developed a method to unlock despite HTC/Verizon
Developed two methods for s-off:
DirtyRacun - IMHO, unlimited.io did a great job
FacePalm - Haven't tried, but looks great
Two great recoveries:
Official CWM Recovery, Plus PhilZ
TWRP Recovery
Developed an Incredible Rock Solid Sense ROM in ViperLTE
Developed a solid, official CyanogenMod ROM .
There are probably more, but those are just off of the top of my head. I am also still seeing great ongoing development work for ROMs for this phone. Sure, this phone doesn't have the plethora of ROMs that the OG Droid, Dinc2, Rezound, or [insert model here], but what we do have is solid.
I'm not exactly sure what Verizon owes us. We have a great phone with a great 4GLTE network (at least in my area). It should also be noted that Verizon actually put out an OTA for the OG Dinc around 2+ years after its release with "Improvements and fixes". I would expect the same for this phone as well. I too believe that threats, anger, etc. will not do anything more than generate ill will.
Just my $0.03.
P.S. Why do we still care if there is an "official" bootloader unlock? As mentioned above, we have a proved method to unlock bootloader and/or gain s-off. Even HTC's site says that unlocking bootloader through their "official" site may void your warranty.
HTC Dev said:
Please understand that you will not be able to return your device to the original state and going forward your device may not be held covered under the warranty for all claims resulting from the unlocking of the bootloader. HTC bears no responsibility if your device is no longer usable afterwards.
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The only thing to take away from this is to avoid Verizon and HTC. They may not owe us anything more than we received, but they are clearly sub-par companies compared to others. Unfortunately, I can't ditch Verizon just now because I'm on a shared plan, but I will never buy an HTC phone again.
junkmail9 said:
I agree with mdmower. Having come from the OG Droid, I had zero expectation for HTC or Verizon to let me unlock the phone....
P.S. Why do we still care if there is an "official" bootloader unlock?
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Just to clarify, I'm not content with the support Verizon has offered for this phone, I just realize that we cannot expect them to continue support. I am still not sure about the best avenues of communication with Verizon Wireless, so in a feeble attempt to get their attention, I write a short #openletter on G+.
A far as the official bootloader unlock, it is a little important. An example is the recently advertised CM installer (by the way, I do not have any insider knowledge about CM Inc.). The installer will almost surely be available only to devices with legitimate unlock ability. While the fireball is pretty much "a bit"-out-of-luck even if it did get official unlock, due to the inability to flash the boot partition while in recovery, at some point users need to convince Verizon Wireless to allow unlocked bootloaders for phones on their network. This is especially relevant to the many, many users who are wise enough to not tinker with their phones because of lack of knowledge. They deserve the opportunity to safely replace the legacy operating system on their phone, and this will only be possible if the carrier and manufacturer allow it.
The open letter seems pointless, besides maybe allowing other people to see and take note that Verizon ignores certain customers. As far as our phone though, no point really. Anyone you reach through G+, Facebook, Twitter, Verizon's customer service contacts, etc. will have no real power to do anything. They just give the typical "sorry, we're doing our best" garbage. The message never reaches anyone important enough to actually do anything. The only way a message may get to them is if the user base is very large, but even if we all wrote to them everyday it wouldn't help. Not enough people for them to care. As you said, we're at their mercy. Just have to wait.
mdmower said:
A far as the official bootloader unlock, it is a little important. An example is the recently advertised CM installer (by the way, I do not have any insider knowledge about CM Inc.). The installer will almost surely be available only to devices with legitimate unlock ability. While the fireball is pretty much "a bit"-out-of-luck even if it did get official unlock, due to the inability to flash the boot partition while in recovery, at some point users need to convince Verizon Wireless to allow unlocked bootloaders for phones on their network. This is especially relevant to the many, many users who are wise enough to not tinker with their phones because of lack of knowledge. They deserve the opportunity to safely replace the legacy operating system on their phone, and this will only be possible if the carrier and manufacturer allow it.
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This is an excellent point I had not considered. I was not thinking about the larger issue, (nor am I savvy with the upcoming CM installer). Unfortunately, I have run into a few companies that have seriously dummied down their products because, as one tech support person told me, "some users may have a problem with the advanced features so we removed them." While I can try and understand that point, it was really frustrating because some advanced features I had come to rely on were removed in the product upgrade. Simply because some people could not comprehend how to use it properly? Is Verizon trying to protect us from ourselves, dummy down the phones for "the uneducated masses," or simply trying to force their customers to live with Verizon-installed bloatware?
Okay I have My own say to this.!
Okay so I left AT&T network when I owned the HTC Inspire 4g and moved on to Verizon because there service was better in my area and I purchased the HTC Droid Incredible 4G LTE as my first phone with Verizon, I came to like the phone because it was fast, snappy, and good on battery....... But I constantly waited for update to jellybean ( Sense 4+ ) which in reality would make the device more efficient and smoother than it was on Ice Cream Sandwich... And finally I heard the news that we were going to get an update to jellybean in the beginning of 2013.. But after so much time of waiting I finally gave up hope and said ***k the device and went back to AT&T...... and bought the HTC One XL because it recieved updates to sense 5. The device is like an older sibling to the inc4g with close to the same specs. I sold the Incredible 4g because I hated the lack of support for this device... The only good thing going for it was CM10 and the amazing sense kernel. This community deserves more than what has been given to them so far... So my question is why Verizon drop support for us.???? If this community received jelly bean j defiantly would sell my XL and come back to this community......
This is my only my concern.
Sincerely,
24ky
Sent from my HTC One XL using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
Here is a weird thought. let your money do the talking. leave Verizon. if enough of us leave we dont need to "change their minds". i brought this up in an HTC elevate detection not to long ago ( also how come htc bent over backwards because verizon wanted the bootload unlock for the ONE removed). instead of open letters or angry tweets and emails, just take your money to someone that appreciates you as a customer? put your money into a company that understands the development community and is willing to support you. how do you think verizon got so good? the used to listen to their customers. now that they are self sustaining they dont need to listen to us anymore. but i bet if their wallet was hit the would. they would bring back unlimited data, remove the block of google wallet, ect....
You wouldn't take your car to a mechanic that does great work but also makes you spend $$ money on things that don't need to be fixed.
my $.02
synisterwolf said:
Here is a weird thought. let your money do the talking. leave Verizon. if enough of us leave we dont need to "change their minds" i brought this up in an HTC elevate detection not to long ago. instead of open letters or angry tweets, just take your money to someone that appreciates you as a customer? put your money into a company that understands the development community and is willing to support you.
You wouldn't take your car to a mechanic that does great work but also makes you spend $$ money on things that don't need to be fixed.
my $.02
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This is my point from before. This is the only thing you can really do. I wish I could dump Verizon right now, but I can't. For now I'll just settle for never buying HTC again.
somerandomname1 said:
This is my point from before. This is the only thing you can really do. I wish I could dump Verizon right now, but I can't. For now I'll just settle for never buying HTC again.
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this too. maybe if HTC where to step in and help us it would be different.
OP not trying to troll or anything or start a war. i just wanted to get that out their. we do have an option to take our money somewhere else. or at least when this contract is over. ive said it before, i need unlimited data. i dont have wifi anywhere i work and im barely at home so if i have to give up my data plan i will give up my business too. im going to miss there unbeatable coverage but i cant stand to be hit in the balls over and over again with a smile on their face. :/
mdmower said:
I received the below e-mail today. I did not appreciate being contacted out of the blue via e-mail; if you feel the need to contact me, use XDA's tagging feature. With that said, I thought I'd reply in public with my thoughts on the matter, hoping to drive a constructive conversation about Verizon Wireless' restrictions for devices on their network. My initial response is in post 2.
Please, think through your responses before posting. Make sure they ADD to the conversation.
I will leave it up to the writer of the e-mail if he/she would like to make himself/herself known here.
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Click to collapse
My 2 cents on this from bitter experience. You will get zilch. You will waste precious amounts of your life trying hard to convince a rigid management who can care so little they'd be happy to break your phone to pieces and hand you another from their stockpile of dinc4g's just to get rid of them ASAP. I've gone through the whole lot with BBB complaints etc. for the Droid X2 by Motorola. haha, wasted my life there. And the countless pleadings to release the ICS ROM that HTC clearly developed for the Dinc2 (Incredible S, international variant got the ICS update) only to get on the Verizon chopping block and get its head unceremoniously severed, taught me one thing and that is we as consumers have knowingly chosen this path, that will give us limited to no flexibility on customization to stay on VZW and we have to "deal" with it.
With all good intentions, I request all to keep your expectations rock bottom. You have better chances of going to the moon on a future Russian spacecraft than convincing Verizon as to why this may be a good idea.
Sincerely,
A disgruntled Droid™ user.
here has been my android experience. started on og inc oct 2010 first droid phone considered ''high-end'' at the time (8 mp camera saaaaay whaaaat??!) then dinc2 great phone but compared to the galaxy S II and the galaxy nexus at the time it was a ''mid range" phone. now with the inc4g it is very ''mid range'' compared to what is out now. the galaxy notes and s4's and the 50 different htc One(s). if you want many different roms to flash to fix your ''addiction'' go nexus or one of the mainstream phones. you will find 100 different "Unofficial CM10.X" roms with "user tweaks" and "kernel tweaks" that in all actuality are nothing more then a reposync from source. yeah they might have a few different mods but they are usually so similar that you will not/could not tell the difference. like someone mentioned earlier I would rather have a few solid roms. a good sense (viper) or if you're an aosp guy like me there's cm. I think anybody who saw the specs of this phone (incredible 4g) and thought, "hey this is going to be the next BIG THING." I'm sorry to tell you that you were mistaken. xda dev support of a phone is only as good as the devs that own the device, and in our case we have a very small amount of active devs.
So I am the a-hole that emailed mdmower. I apologize profusely. When I saw your first post, I almost slunk away in shame, never to show my face here again. I am not even being a little bit facetious. You do great work for a community of people and I abused (what obviously is) an important rule. And I'm really sorry.
In an attempt to redeem myself just a little bit, let me point out one thing that you might not know:
mdmower said:
Can you point to a single advertisement by either HTC or Verizon that the Droid Incredible 4G LTE would ever be included in HTCDev's unlocked bootloader program? Even HTC's generic advertisements include disclaimers that some devices may not be included due to various restrictions (the most obvious being carrier refusal) [SNIP] There is no legitimate complaint that can be filed towards Verizon concerning this matter since they never advertised this as an available feature.
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Actually, some states may have more favorable law here. First and foremost, many states have an unfair/deceptive business practices law that are distinct from the false advertising law. Example: New York has GBL Section 349 (trade practices), and 350 (Advertising). These are consumer-oriented statutes and so they have some bite.
On this point, while Verizon has never said they would provide us with Jelly Bean, there are some nice facts here like how many people were locked into 2 year contracts on a phone that Verizon stopped updating during their two year period. I've seen suggestions that Verizon is pulling this with older phones in order to force upgrades, and if true, that would be the basis for a claim. But here, I think the HTCDev unlock is actually pretty damning. We should be entitled to take discovery into the real reasons why Verizon forced HTC to remove the phone from the program. Given the repeated warnings about waiver of warranty, and the presence of other VZW phones in the program, it's hard to believe it's a support issue.
Finally -- of note is that the ACLU has filed an FTC complaint on this subject earlier this year. Unfortunately I cannot post the link since I just registered for this post (long time lurker) but it's the 2nd hit for "april FTC complaint android" (see pages 6-9) Their basis is the potential for security flaws which go unfixed. The relief they are requesting is pretty broad. I'm actually surprised that there haven't been follow-on civil suits already.
Anyway, I am really sorry again. I'm going to crawl back under the rock I came from now.
If it's any comfort: my punishment is that my D4INC is a flicker model.
PrimePalaver said:
If it's any comfort: my punishment is that my D4INC is a flicker model.
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Haha burn! Just kidding... it's cool.
My Phone; (AT&T HTC One M8 Unlocked, Rooted S-off ), TWRP 2.7.0.0 Recovery, Superuser GOO Manager installed. Flashed the Venom rom using teamwin app. Followed inst, plus youtube video. Did not work first time. Installed backup phone went back to normal, tried flashing again went fine rebooted once rebooted would not turn on, can not get into recovery. Phone powers up and say UNFORTUNATELY PHONE HAS STOPPED WORKING. Any help will be greatly appreciated.
Is there no way to force this phone into bootloader mode?
Well I'm off to the Evil empire(AT&T) to get a new phone.
Phone still under warranty, getting one mailed to me with a return mailer to send this one back, should be here on Tuesday. A few minutes ago I saw the supersu app pop up asking to grant venom tweaks permission. I could not grant it because of the two error messages on the screen on top of it. (Unfortunately the phone has stopped, and Unfortunately blink feed has stopped). Has anyone seen any thing like this before?
underdogg said:
Phone still under warranty, getting one mailed to me with a return mailer to send this one back, should be here on Tuesday. A few minutes ago I saw the supersu app pop up asking to grant venom tweaks permission. I could not grant it because of the two error messages on the screen on top of it. (Unfortunately the phone has stopped, and Unfortunately blink feed has stopped). Has anyone seen any thing like this before?
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I'm sure your phone is fine. you are using an outdated twrp and probably messed up a partition. Unplug phone, hold vol up and power for exactly 10 seconds, let go of both, then hold vol down and power. This should take you to your boot loader. get new twrp img from official site.
fastboot flash recovery twrp.img
fastboot erase cache
boot to twrp and reflash rom.
I had done what you suggested many times (read it from another post), the only difference was you said exactly 10 seconds the other post said 15 seconds. The HTC tech I talked to earlier this morning even told me to do that for 15-20 seconds which did not work. Your method worked like a charm on the first try. Thank you very much Sir.
underdogg said:
I had done what you suggested many times (read it from another post), the only difference was you said exactly 10 seconds the other post said 15 seconds. The HTC tech I talked to earlier this morning even told me to do that for 15-20 seconds which did not work. Your method worked like a charm on the first try. Thank you very much Sir.
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Np, if you hold longer, it actually turns the phone back on before you can hit "vol down" to get to boot loader. If you are ever just resetting, you can hold as long as you want till it resets
I'm happy you go it sorted out. But stop jumping the gun, and running for a warranty exchange when things do go quite right when modding the phone.
If the screen comes on, its unlikely that the phone beyond recovery. Its usually just a lock of knowledge on your part, and just a matter of research on XDA, or asking for help here. If you are going to be modding the phone, you are going to have to resolve yourself to being more patient. Things will occasionally not go right, that is just a fact of the game. The right response is to troubleshoot your way out, and not freak out.
In any case, claiming a warranty replacement for damage that was a result of you modding the phone is immoral; and the very reason why these devices get locked down in the first place.
redpoint73 said:
I'm happy you go it sorted out. But stop jumping the gun, and running for a warranty exchange when things do go quite right when modding the phone.
If the screen comes on, its unlikely that the phone beyond recovery. Its usually just a lock of knowledge on your part, and just a matter of research on XDA, or asking for help here. If you are going to be modding the phone, you are going to have to resolve yourself to being more patient. Things will occasionally not go right, that is just a fact of the game. The right response is to troubleshoot your way out, and not freak out.
In any case, claiming a warranty replacement for damage that was a result of you modding the phone is immoral; and the very reason why these devices get locked down in the first place.
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Please don't question my morality, you don't know me. I've dealt with AT&T(the evil empire) for 18 years, with them adding charges to my account, charging for items I never requested and they never sent, charging for additional minutes and data that were never used. I went to buy another phone ,just like I bought this one. The enormous amount of money they charge for these $80.00 phones is ridiculous. So please wait until you sit down and talk to me about all the things I endured with AT&T before making claims about my morality.
UNDERDOGG
21 Year 100% disabled American Veteran
Retired 22 Years Now
52 months a POW
2 Purple Hearts
3 Bronze Stars
2 Silver Stars
Sir you've never sat at my table, nor I yours. My moral compass is always pointed due north. So don't question my morality....Please
underdogg said:
Please don't question my morality, you don't know me.
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You're right, I don't know you. But my statement, while phrased in the 2nd person tense, does not require any knowledge of you, and does not in any way need to be specific to you. It applies to everybody. If you want me to rephrase slightly, try this:
Claiming a warranty replacement for damage that was a result of modding the phone is immoral and fraud; and the very reason why these devices get locked down in the first place.
The personal details of your life are not relevant to the discussion, and add no value to it.
People often like to frame things in terms of "evil" faceless corporations that don't get hurt if you rip them off. Of you getting payback for so-called "wrongs" they have done to you. But in reality, the expense of fraudulent warranty claims doesn't get absorbed by AT&T, it trickles down to all of us, the customers. And in more ways than one. Not only would such behavior pass on additional monetary expenses to other honest paying customers, but also is the very reason why manufacturers and carriers are locking down bootloaders, and otherwise locking down the phones against modification (write protected partitions, etc.). If not for fruadulant warranty claims (do to botched phone modding), the manufacturers and carriers would let us mod to our hearts delight. Locked bootloaders and other obstacles would not exist, because why would they care? Its not the "evil empire" you are hurting, its all of us.
If you decide to mod the phone, you accept the risk of bricking it, and having to replace the phone on your own dime. Its that simple.
redpoint73 said:
You're right, I don't know you. But my statement, while phrased in the 2nd person tense, does not require any knowledge of you, and does not in any way need to be specific to you. It applies to everybody. If you want me to rephrase slightly, try this:
Claiming a warranty replacement for damage that was a result of modding the phone is immoral and fraud; and the very reason why these devices get locked down in the first place.
The personal details of your life are not relevant to the discussion, and add no value to it.
People often like to frame things in terms of "evil" faceless corporations that don't get hurt if you rip them off. Of you getting payback for so-called "wrongs" they have done to you. But in reality, the expense of fraudulent warranty claims doesn't get absorbed by AT&T, it trickles down to all of us, the customers. And in more ways than one. Not only would such behavior pass on additional monetary expenses to other honest paying customers, but also is the very reason why manufacturers and carriers are locking down bootloaders, and otherwise locking down the phones against modification (write protected partitions, etc.). If not for fruadulant warranty claims (do to botched phone modding), the manufacturers and carriers would let us mod to our hearts delight. Locked bootloaders and other obstacles would not exist, because why would they care? Its not the "evil empire" you are hurting, its all of us.
If you decide to mod the phone, you accept the risk of bricking it, and having to replace the phone on your own dime. Its that simple.
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I some what agree with you but not totally, as for as my back ground info now you do know a little about me. You must not know how warranties work if I had taken the warranty phone I would have to send them this one back. So I cancelled the order. This is not an AT&T phone this is my phone, I bought it, I can do what I please with it. In my earlier post I said I went to BUY another phone, not do a warranty claim I told them what I did. I did not try to deceive them, lie or anything(because of my Morality). If it's their phone I agree I should be liable, but it's my phone. It came with a warranty, so did the 2013 Mustang I purchased for my Grand Daughter, the engine failed, the warranty replaced the engine. I was allowed to keep the defective engine, it was MINE I wrote a check for the vehicle. Since I bought the phone they should have made provisions for me to unlock, root, unlock the sim, replace the rom, toss it in my lake, throw from the third floor of my home, and anything else I wanted to do to it, once they accepted my money this became my property. In closing, yes I don't care about big corporations, or the Government, but my morality is intact if it wasn't I don't think I would be here having this conversation with you. Sir, your lesson on morality is wasted on me you should be having this conversation with your children!
underdogg said:
You must not know how warranties work
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I know precisely how warranties work. You said the following, which to me means you were making a warranty claim due to the phone not booting, which was a result of you modding the phone.
underdogg said:
Phone still under warranty, getting one mailed to me with a return mailer to send this one back
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You did not use the word "buy" previously anywhere. Only the word "get" which is ambiguous at best. And how a purchase fits in with the above quote (getting a warranty exchange) is unclear.
And I know you go the phone working again, so presumably cancelled the warranty claim. I was more commenting on the intent to make a warranty claim.
I've said my part, no need to carry this discussion any further. And frankly the repeated mention of your "morality" is irrelevant. I'm just making a comment, which all are free to do on this forum. You can take it or leave it (obviously the latter). But saying I cannot comment (and to have this conversation "with my kids" instead) is not your right.
redpoint73 said:
I know precisely how warranties work. You said the following, which to me means you were making a warranty claim due to the phone not booting, which was a result of you modding the phone.
You did not use the word "buy" previously anywhere. Only the word "get" which is ambiguous at best. And how a purchase fits in with the above quote (getting a warranty exchange) is unclear.
And I know you go the phone working again, so presumably cancelled the warranty claim. I was more commenting on the intent to make a warranty claim.
I've said my part, no need to carry this discussion any further. And frankly the repeated mention of your "morality" is irrelevant. I'm just making a comment, which all are free to do on this forum. You can take it or leave it (obviously the latter). But saying I cannot comment (and to have this conversation "with my kids" instead) is not your right.
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You are right, I did say get a phone, the warranty info came after I got to the store. I buy what I want, and I understand my RIGHTS under the freedom of speech act. You said what you had to say, I just questioned your point about my morality. This is the last I will speak on this, I hope you do the same. Have a good day today and a better day tomorrow.
Please delete. The average xda user replying to this topic with their own opinion was not the goal of this thread. Since it seems replies are based off w/e their brains decided to pick out of my OP instead of processing the entire post. Besides I have achieved my goal, thanks.
I'm totally guessing right now, but I think Shelnutt2 is working on something behind the scenes. He's an Optimus G Sprint user, at least, and there are whispers and murmurs about a root method outside of the circle (jcase, autoprime, et al). GUESSING!
I also believe there IS a Sprint root in existence, but it's not public. I personally have resigned myself to just waiting. Hopefully by the end of the month, maybe a bit longer, I'd be surprised if nobody had anything within 30 days. That seems like a long time, but what can you do?
/speculation
Root will come. There are devs working to find a way to get it done. As with any new device, just takes time to find the loop hole. I know (Somehwere) on here, one is working on getting device and hoping (key word here) to release something by Mid august. In all honesty, Only a few reasons I personally want to root right now (Greenify/Titanium backup) other than that.. Stock is working quite well. Hang in there folks.. It'll happen in time.
Thanks for replying without reading my post.
Let's see...looks to me like they read your post as I did.
Root will come when it comes. And they'll charge if they want to.
Bounties don't work very well without having the phone.
There's at least 2 AWESOME Devs that have our phone and are working on getting us Root and Unlock.
Patience is a virtue.
Edit: Sorry..I don't want the above to be taken wrong. So here's some threads about bounties, root, unlock
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2776198
http://forum.xda-developers.com/lg-g3/general/discussion-root-g3s-t2816060
http://forum.xda-developers.com/lg-g3/general/bounty-lg-g3-d855bootloader-unlocking-t2807900
If you read through those threads, you'll see there's quite the discussion/debate over it all.
Also, We have a Dev team with and without our phone and they are all working on root/unlock. Here's the ones I know of in no particular order.
thecubed
autoprime
jcase - Sprint
Shelnutt2 - Sprint
fiddy619 - Sprint I think
They've all done root/unlocks in the past along with some other important items, like LG's EFS. You lose your EFS, be prepared for tons of work if you're lucky. And usually a Brick by the real definition of paperweight.
Sent from my LGLS990 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
If root is a must, you never want to buy the phone right at release. You will hardly ever have it rooted right out of the box. Just be happy that this isn't iOS and you have to wait months to see something.
Better Battery Plus
Ikyo said:
If root is a must, you never want to buy the phone right at release. You will hardly ever have it rooted right out of the box. Just be happy that this isn't iOS and you have to wait months to see something.
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The reason for root on this (and any device) really is that Google in its infinite wisdom locked apps out of the battery info service - https://plus.google.com/+SvenKnispel/posts/ReLvz6KJwG5. So now just to see what's draining the battery, you have to root the phone. The first two days of the G3, my battery was draining like crazy and I couldn't figure out why. It seems to have stabilized now. But even so every now or then it acts up. For me, this is the real big reason for getting the G3 rooted. Then of course, Xposed to get rid of the volume configuration in the notification drop down, TiB for freezing apps and Nandroid backups. I could live without the rest. It's just the checking of battery stats that's bugging me.
But between waiting on this phone and charging it more frequently, I'll do the latter No way I was waiting any longer than I absolutely had to for this beauty.
First and foremost, I sincerely apologize for making this type of thread, but I have done some searching and reading and I am now thoroughly confused.
My phone is the BNG3 version so obviously not towelroot compatible. After figuring out that was the case and it ain't being updated I stumbled upon Odin Pro, but it needs root to use. Seems like a bit of a catch 22.
So how do I root my S5, what is this Knox and why shouldn't I trip it, and what the heck is happening?
Once again, sorry for making this kind of thread, but I am just so confused.
Nemaides said:
First and foremost, I sincerely apologize for making this type of thread, but I have done some searching and reading and I am now thoroughly confused.
My phone is the BNG3 version so obviously not towelroot compatible. After figuring out that was the case and it ain't being updated I stumbled upon Odin Pro, but it needs root to use. Seems like a bit of a catch 22.
So how do I root my S5, what is this Knox and why shouldn't I trip it, and what the heck is happening?
Once again, sorry for making this kind of thread, but I am just so confused.
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I'll answer the second part since the other poster already answered the first part.
Tripping knox is just setting a flag in the bootloader to true. Basically it tells Samsung that you did something "unauthorized" with your phone and voided your warranty with them. The thing is, tmobile doesn't care. They will replace/upgrade your phone without even looking. This has been confirmed many times here and other places. (don't hold me accountable...yada yada...)
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fffft said:
But TMB, like most carriers doesn't care about Knox and it usually won't affect a warranty claim made with TMB.
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That's not always the case. Before rooting, I called T-Mobile a few times speaking to different representatives each time and asked them to explicitly describe their policy on rooting and Knox, and how it relates their JUMP! program (T-mobile's warranty/insurance and upgrade service) with regards to upgrading and general insurance repair/replacement.
EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM SAID: If the Knox counter is tripped we will know/find out and you will no longer be eligible for upgrading nor replacement in accordance to the JUMP! program. In fact, a couple of them went into further detail that I could be liable for paying the full remaining price plus a fine if I were to attempt to upgrade/replace a Knox tripped phone.
THAT SAID, the employee that I bought the phone nonchalantly remarked when I asked him about rooting the phone with respect to the JUMP! program that T-Mobile would honor the JUMP! program despite root. HOWEVER he said nothing about a Knox tripped phone. Perhaps he equivocated meant that a towelrooted phone may be accepted but a full-fledged Knox tripped phone may not.
TL;DR:
T-Mobile representative/"official" web-sources say Knox tripped phones will not be eligible for the JUMP! program.
ONE employee at a T-Mobile store seemed to be willing to accept a rooted phone with regards to the JUMP! program.
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fffft said:
TMB is a large company. ...
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I'm sorry if I'm coming off as a troll/unwise, I am being completely serious. I am a cautious guy, and I wanted to know the full potential hazards of rooting with regards to their warranty policy. Of course on a person to person basis it should be easy to find a rep that will let a Knox tripped phone slide. However, in my personal opinion to pay the price of the warranty + full price of the phone + a fine in the unlikely worse case scenario that T-Mobile holds their policy to the letter seems expensive, especially when I know I will more than likely keep the phone for 2yrs+. My conclusion was to not buy their warranty, root, and be happy.
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Just do a deferred trade in then when you jump. You skip one person looking at your phone and the people in the warehouse honestly couldn't care less.
Wow, thanks for the massive amounts of information folks, truly.
A couple question though.
1. If I Install an older version and root using towelroot...
Would I be able to keep my device up to date with the performance updates Samsung releases?
2. These custom recoveries/kernels that would trip Knox? What do they mean and what advantages do they have?
3. If I do end up tripping Knox, can I un-trip it?
Nemaides said:
Wow, thanks for the massive amounts of information folks, truly.
A couple question though.
1. If I Install an older version and root using towelroot...
Would I be able to keep my device up to date with the performance updates Samsung releases?
2. These custom recoveries/kernels that would trip Knox? What do they mean and what advantages do they have?
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I'm not sure on the first one, so I'll let someone else answer.
The reason I chose to use the root method that tripped knox is I knew I was going to flash a custom rom later on. I would really recommend flashing the CM11 rom in the forum. If you wait a few days, most if not all the bugs will be ironed out and it'll be just as stable as stock.
As to what they mean, recoveries are what you use to flash and backup roms (they can be used for more, but this is what most people use) and kernels would just add MUCH more control over the inner workings of the phone (performance, screen calibration, button tweaks, etc).
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Last question,
If I root using an old kernel would it be possible to install updates without breaking root? Someway to keep the kernels just get the improvments?
Nemaides said:
Last question,
If I root using an old kernel would it be possible to install updates without breaking root? Someway to keep the kernels just get the improvments?
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here are two threads concerning how to update without losing root and or tripping knox. i suggest you read as much as you can b efore doing anything http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2790292 http://forum.xda-developers.com/tmo.../experimental-how-to-root-triggering-t2845421
AleHanSolo said:
That's not always the case. Before rooting, I called T-Mobile a few times speaking to different representatives each time and asked them to explicitly describe their policy on rooting and Knox, and how it relates their JUMP! program (T-mobile's warranty/insurance and upgrade service) with regards to upgrading and general insurance repair/replacement.
EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM SAID: If the Knox counter is tripped we will know/find out and you will no longer be eligible for upgrading nor replacement in accordance to the JUMP! program. In fact, a couple of them went into further detail that I could be liable for paying the full remaining price plus a fine if I were to attempt to upgrade/replace a Knox tripped phone.
THAT SAID, the employee that I bought the phone nonchalantly remarked when I asked him about rooting the phone with respect to the JUMP! program that T-Mobile would honor the JUMP! program despite root. HOWEVER he said nothing about a Knox tripped phone. Perhaps he equivocated meant that a towelrooted phone may be accepted but a full-fledged Knox tripped phone may not.
TL;DR:
T-Mobile representative/"official" web-sources say Knox tripped phones will not be eligible for the JUMP! program.
ONE employee at a T-Mobile store seemed to be willing to accept a rooted phone with regards to the JUMP! program.
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Yeah if you call them and ask they will tell you that ... Its completely the opposite of what happens when you bring a knox tripped phone in for an upgrade or whatever .. Think about it ... If you have jump then you have premium handset protection which means you can throw your phone at a wall and take it to tmobile and get a new one . They would way rather get a knox tripped phone that they can resell without having to pay for parts or anything like that ...I have been using tmobile for years and they never ever check for know . Knox voids the manufacturers warranty not the handset protection. The sales people really don't know jack about anything . There only fix for anything is to do a factory reset . At the end of the day Tmobile wants you to have a device so they can give you a bill monthly . Its bad business to take away equipment that makes you money . Im saying this from personal experience and basic common sense . Plus I have a friend that worked at tmobile for some time . When I bought my GS5 I rooted it while I was still in the store waiting for them to finish my transaction and even showed the sales guy how towelroot works . Jump is kinda a waste anyway cause you have to have half your device paid off to JUMP , when you can just sell your phone outright to pay the other half off .Especially if you buy flagship phones . I sold my GS4 for 320 which was more than what Jump would have covered
I like this!
fffft said:
Fair enough and I appreciate the elaboration. You described yourself as cautious which is fine. It's an individual choice whether to rely upon common practice or only trust what is official policy. You can decide what is best for yourself.
My perspective is that life is nothing if not learning to read between the lines. Have you ever read the back of a movie rental contract? Or car rental.. or rent almost anything contract? If you took the worst case, they have the right should you ever be late in returning the rented item to literally bust down your door, retrieve the rented item and not be held responsible for damage to your home. Not to mention collect hundreds of dollars in penalties for "being forced" to repatriate their overdue rental.
It would be naive to think that is common practice or likely to happen though. And that is the lesson of worst case scenarios. It's wise to know about them, but you also have to make a judgement as too how likely they are to occur. The alternative would be to refrain from doing many common place activities and live something like a hermit.
There is no reason that you or anyone else need agree though. That's just my take on it.
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:good: That right there was a lesson in life!
spirodave said:
Jump is kinda a waste anyway cause you have to have half your device paid off to JUMP , when you can just sell your phone outright to pay the other half off .Especially if you buy flagship phones . I sold my GS4 for 320 which was more than what Jump would have covered
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Not the old JUMP. That lets me upgrade twice per year without having to pay off 50%.
I see in the forum that a root solution had been achieved but the root bounty is still unclaimed because the devs think their solution is too difficult. I do not know enough about this to understand the obstacles. Can anyone give an educated guess as to if or when an easy root solution might arise? I personally like to run a stock/rooted ROM.
My answer = tomorrow
When tomorrow comes, answer = tomorrow
Why do people keep asking for etas? It'll come out when it comes out.... Wait patiently
If you want a rootable phone, get a nexus (or the HTC unlocked bootloader phone)
Root will be released when it's released. Not trying to sound like a douche, but that is honestly the best and only answer that can be given.
The thing about root is this...
-Just because it's been achieved, does not mean it will be shared. There is a lot of time and effort that is put into this type of thing. Not to mention the shear amount of risk that is involved as well. A developer may end up going through several devices while trying to gain root access. This can be VERY costly.
-Then there are the annoyances as well... People consistently asking when it will happen or when it will be released. It's not that these people are intentionally being annoying or trying to be... But when you are one of a few who have accomplished something and then have hundreds if not thousands of people asking for it. It's like having that last slice of pizza, no more is coming, ever, and the entire party is asking you to share it. That one slice isn't gonna feed everyone. (Bad analogy, but whatever)
-The bounty hasn't been claimed for 1 main reason that was mentioned... It's not as dummy proof as it can be. (This of course was ad-libed a bit) ... If I had to speculate, I would guess on 2 other reasons as well... 1, the bounty doesn't meet the cost put in. 2, the flood of private messages to the developers just isn't worth it yet. Again, those last 2 are my own speculation.
I'm sorry for the long post, but it was to offer a bit of insight to others that may stop in here as well.
TL;DR - The devs will release it when they are ready...If they are ever ready. This phone is still BRAND NEW, so let them work out some of the kinks in the process to ensure they don't brick hundreds or thousands of devices... It only take on line of bad code to ruin the whole thing. Be patient.
Hi TAG- I am in no hurry and do not mind waiting. Just want to know that it will be done eventually! Thanks.
Sent from my K00C using Tapatalk
Nah. It won't arrive, buy the HTC 10.
nobnut said:
Nah. It won't arrive, buy the HTC 10.
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This is the G5 forums. Please refrain from promoting other devices in these threads. Also please refrain from giving an answer you do not know to be true.
paperWastage said:
My answer = tomorrow
When tomorrow comes, answer = tomorrow
Why do people keep asking for etas? It'll come out when it comes out.... Wait patiently
If you want a rootable phone, get a nexus (or the HTC unlocked bootloader phone)
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I did not ask for an ETA. Initially people were saying there might not be root because of ocked boot loader. Now we kinda have root. As I said I don't know the technicalities of what Id holding it back and therefore do not know how big an problem it is. Just trying to get a handle on the feasibility of it. I have another week to return the phone. Seems like a lot of folks in as a these days just live to criticize and insult. The threads are full of it. Even if you had to object to my post you could have been kinder about it. The purpose of this community is for us to help each other.
marcmarshall said:
I did not ask for an ETA. Initially people were saying there might not be root because I'd locked boot loader. Now we kinda have root. Add I said I don't know the technicalities of what I'd holding it back and therefore do not know how big an problem it is. Just trying to get a handle on it. Send like a lot of folks in as a these days just live to criticize and insult. The threads are full of it. Even if you had to object to my post you could have been kinder about it. The purpose of this community is for us to help each other.
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H850 (UK) is getting BL unlock by the end of April.
That name for the thread and thread itself is prob in top 5 most useless threads created, my dear friend.
marcmarshall said:
I did not ask for an ETA. Initially people were saying there might not be root because I'd locked boot loader. Now we kinda have root. Add I said I don't know the technicalities of what I'd holding it back and therefore do not know how big an problem it is. Just trying to get a handle on it.
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people who know how close we are..... are the people who are working on it
which means you are asking for an ETA
Send like a lot of folks in as a these days just live to criticize and insult. The threads are full of it. Even if you had to object to my post you could have been kinder about it. The purpose of this community is for us to help each other.
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how is my post rude?
as other people have pointed out, these threads are useless...
First I apologize for the errors. I use Swype and auto complete is my worst enema. If you do not understand why I felt insulted you are not thinking very much.